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Edward Snowden Interview 2 Released - "The US Government Will Say I Aided Enemies"

Tyler Durden's picture


The Guardian has released the second part of the Edward Snowden interviews with Glenn Greenwald and Laura Poitras. Snowden contemplates the reaction from the US government to his revelations and gets their play-book eerily correct.

Recorded in Hong Kong on June 6th 2013: Snowden Interview Part 2

(Click image for clip - no embed available).


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Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:12 | 3731358 pachanguero
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American hero

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:17 | 3731380 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The US Government should itself be prosecuted for "aiding it's enemies"...

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:31 | 3731426 Jaspergers
Jaspergers's picture

"A witch!"

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:43 | 3731452 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture



I don't know who you are, but you're my NEW HERO... Is that one of those 'Brazilian Granny' contestants as your avatar?...

That's gotta be 'Patricia'

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:45 | 3731465 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Snowden contemplates the reaction from the US government to his revelations and gets their play-book eerily correct.


WTF - eerily correct? They're all spooks! They all have the same f**k*ng playbook! There's nothing eery about reading a script and playing a part unless you're watching a horror movie (sorry, this one is a tragic comedy).

This guy ain't no hero - he's a paid messenger boy for TPTB. Americans are now officially under constant electronic surveillance - get used to it.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:53 | 3731494 mbutler101
mbutler101's picture many bombshells has snowden released? Oh yeah, zero. More softballs from the 'whistleblower'. Refresh my memory, what exactly has he revealed that we didn't know already? How many resignations has he triggered? How many congressional investigations (other than himself)?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:02 | 3731534 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Jon is a great journo.  I was reading nomorefakenews long before ZH came around.  He was ripping Big Pharma a new one at that time.  And truth is, work for the CIA, makes you CIA for life.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:34 | 3731632 redpill
redpill's picture

So why is Assange a criminal for publishing leaks from Bradley Manning, but The Guardian is not a criminal for publishing leaks from Edward Snowden?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:37 | 3731642 TheDarkKnight
TheDarkKnight's picture

Because TPTB want you to know they are watching

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:50 | 3731668 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

And they want you to know what they will do to you if you go off the reservation.

Like Michael Hastings...


Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:57 | 3731687 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Its known as "Limited hangout" in spook speak. You give away a smaller lie in order to obscure and maintain a much bigger lie.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:32 | 3731819 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Are you WITH Snowden? Really WITH him?

Maybe not, or may be not the way you think.


Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:41 | 3732212 MagicHandPuppet
MagicHandPuppet's picture

Snowden, you complete me! 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:14 | 3732286 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

they grounded morales' airplane in an unprescedented move because of snowden. they locked down boston for a day in an unprescedented move because of a crisis acted fake flash grenade.  they blew up dykes in new orleans during a harpocane in an unprescedented effort to confiscate guns and incarcerate civilians in a football stadium.  i'd say the jury is still out on the snowden affair.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 21:28 | 3732739 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

UK Guardian is a 'news source' of the Rothschilds, the wealthiest family in the world *

« The Guardian is controlled by Guardian Media Group, whose chairman is Paul Myners, a past employee of N M Rothschild & Sons Limited. Guardian Media Group is owned by the Scott Trust, which became a limited private company in 2008, with all trustees becoming directors of the Scott Trust. Anthony Salz was appointed as a trustee of the Scott Trust in 2009; he is currently executive vice-chairman of the investment bank Rothschild. »


* The Rothschild family is estimated by mainstream sources (Forbes etc) to have a wealth in excess of US $ 400 billion ($.4 trillion !), but they spread it among numerous family members and thus can avoid the 'top billionaires' lists.

One of the oddest things the ultra-Zionist Rothschilds have done, is their funding, design and construction of the extremely spooky Israeli Supreme Court building with Masonic and pagan symbols ... Very creepy and satanic-seeming, has been covered by leading Israeli radical journalist Barry Chamish. Photos of that weird structure here -

Tue, 07/09/2013 - 01:27 | 3733293 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

$400 billion, lol.

Reports from 1850 list the Rothschilds as becoming the world's first billionaires at that time.  Tough finding copies these days, for sure.

But take $1 billion and compound it at 6% for 163 years and tell me what you get.  My calculations tell me they are easily the world's first trillionaires, at this point in time.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:10 | 3731944 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Michael Hastings wasn't going off the reservation. Look at his wife. He was on the wrong reservation when two master factions fought. Same with the ambassador.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:07 | 3731936 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

They want you to believe they are watching.  They can't watch everything and they can't pick out relevant from chaff.  Now that everyone has hundreds of "friends" on facebook, none of it can be processed.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:00 | 3732253 spine001
spine001's picture

Staying under the RADAR is the only encryption remaining for the general Joe. All others are like wearing a thick sweater as a bullet proof vest! And worse, with a large fluorescent funnel type target built in.


 Unless you're a mathematician and know what you are doing don't ever trust any encryption algorithm, and if you are and you encrypt anything they want to know, hahaha, you will talk so fast that you won't understand yourself when they nicely ask you to decript it and give them the algorithm.


But finding a needle in a needle stack, that remains troublesome, extremely difficult and beyond mere human machines. But since they store anything and everything, when they single you out, you are out of luck, everything will come out. I, at least have known this for many, many years. I still remember a guy I hired from the defense industry into our company, he never ever told me anything about what he had done there, had top secret clearance or something like that, but my God, was he paranoic? He behaved as if he was being looked at every moment of his life by big brother... And he was incredible with encryption, sometimes, I had a very hard time following him in his math.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:59 | 3732107 Population Bubble
Population Bubble's picture

The Panopticon only works if the prisoners know they are being watched.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:38 | 3731644 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

I don't believe the official story. I think Snowden works for the CIA. I don't think it would be possible for snowden to saunter in to B.A.H. and just steal EVERYTHING. I just don't buy it. If he really was a whistleblower, CIA/NSA/Black box agency would have offed him LONG ago. don't believe this shit. Its shit. Obvious shit.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:52 | 3731674 redpill
redpill's picture

I think you overestimate them.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:59 | 3731684 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ THX 1178,

I tend to agree.  TPTB assasinated Michael Hastings for a lot less. 

WARNING: The National Security Agency is likely recording and storing this communication as part of its unlawful spying programs on all Americans … and people worldwide. The people who created the NSA spying program say that this communication – and any responses – can and will be used against the American people at any time in the future should folks in government decide to go after us for political reasons. And private information in digital communications may be given to big companies by the government.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:09 | 3731735 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

I know the feeling...




Nobody wants to keep getting hoodwinked, over and over and over and over again...the truth is out there...its just piled with 10 feet of manure, piss, shit, crickets, earth and worms...


At least this way we have alll the bases covered.

If we all are on one side slapping each other on the back agreeing and licking each other nuts  - thats when you are easy prey...

We must dissect everything...

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:24 | 3731797 walküre
walküre's picture

Check the source. Who is Snowden talking to? Is the source credible. Some are so easy to dismiss Snowden as a psyop agent. What would the purpose be? We are hearing first hand from an agent that the US is spying on its own people and is spying on the whole world.

Can you say CLUSTERFUCK? The US government is betraying its own people. Some say that is not news. I would say that is news to a vast majority of Americans if they could take 2 mins. out of their rat race life and actually digest what that means.

The US government is spying on countries who are supposedly our friends and allies. This is a huge bone of contention and cannot be ignored! Our allies are going to abandon us in droves and so they should. Would you stay committed to a partner in a relationship where the partner knows all your secrets and wants to know more? Big fat NO!

This is the end of the US empire. The US empire will crumble and die a very lonley death and not many will shed any tears at the funeral. Good riddance!



Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:45 | 3732067 prains
prains's picture

it's amazing the apathy that's even trolled out on this site, <<yeah we knew it already so who cares>> WOW

fact is you didn't know it, you only suspected it, plus you didn't know the extent. Why because this was all classified so you couldn't have "known" only suspected. Now that theory is confirmed FACT so many just want to roll over and have their tummies tickled, it's fucking crazy. What the .gov "intended" by either letting snowden go or were caught with their pants down (i suspect the latter) is just irrelevant noise meant to yet again muddy the water.

this is the american speciality, muddy the water, alter language so that meanings are useless, cirlce jerk the conspiracy theories on social media. It's all noise.

It's simple, you are watched,analyzed and can be arrested as a trrrrist the minute they want now. So what happens when you actually have to DO something about it sometime in the near future. Roll over and have your tummy tickled??

Beware the apathetic, it's a ruse to another type of false prosperity, much like the last 300 ruses

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 21:45 | 3732195 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

"The US government is betraying its own people. Some say that is not news. I would say that is news to a vast majority of Americans if they could take 2 mins. out of their rat race life and actually digest what that means."

Aside from the fact that Americans are too dumbed down, docile, and dependent to take two seconds out of their rat-race lives to "digest what this means," the point is that if Snowden is a CIA mole, then the scandal is far worse, as it only proves how rotten to the core the entire US "intelligence" community is and thus how rotten to the core the US "government" is.

I mean seriously. If Rappaport is right, then isn't the CIA just jealous that it can't do what the NSA is doing, which Rappaport says is this?

NSA is the most awesome spying agency ever devised in this world. If you cross the street in Podunk, Anywhere, USA, to buy an ice cream soda, on a Tuesday afternoon in July, they know.

They know whether you sit at the counter and drink that soda or take it and move to the only table in the store. They know whether you lick the foam from the top of the glass with your tongue or pick the foam with your straw and then lick it.

They know if you keep the receipt for the soda or leave it on the counter.

They know whether you’re wearing shoes or sneakers. They know the brand of your underwear. They know your shaving cream, and precisely which container it came out of.

If so, then what the hell does it matter who Snowden is? If he's an American hero, great. If he's a CIA mole, even better. Either way, the corruption is sufficient not just to condemn the present regime. It's enough to condemn the United States Government.

Once and for all.

The sooner the better.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:47 | 3731869 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

We don't know what Hastings knew to say he was killed for less....

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:18 | 3731978 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

"Yes, there is a conspiracy, indeed there are a great number of conspiracies, all tripping each other up… the main thing that I learned about conspiracy theories is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in the conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy, or the grey aliens, or the twelve-foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control, the truth is far more frightening; no-one is in control, the world is rudderless." - Alan Moore

The CIA is not in control. This Hollywood image of them all being super spies is complete bullshit. The majority are short fat bureaucrats. The idea that they would never "allow" this to happen as if they are omnipotent is childish. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:04 | 3732122 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Alan Moore?  Come on now.  Everyone loves V for Vendetta, but the man is an admitted occultist and magician.  Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you.  But to me, being an occultist means being such a good liar you believe your own lies.  That is what magic is to these people, "acting as if". Do as thou wilt.

Maybe no one group is 'in control', but there definitely are some EXTREMELY powerful cabals out there.  And we are on to them.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:11 | 3732279 BellyBrain
BellyBrain's picture

Yea, T. Mckenna tried to spout that same bullshit line that nobody is in control. Obviously there are factions, and obviously no single agenda besides eventual self-destruction.  But these psychopaths sure seem to get away with...well, pretty much anything they want.  If that's not control, then it is at least a massive amount of power and influence.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 20:59 | 3732655 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

consider that each faction is somewhat in control of their piece of reality, and many of those realities are competing against each other. . . what any one faction is getting away with at any given time is only temporary, on a long enough time line.

“Ego is a structure that is erected by a neurotic individual who is a member of a neurotic culture against the facts of the matter. And culture, which we put on like an overcoat, is the collectivized consensus about what sort of neurotic behaviors are acceptable.”

                             ~  Terence McKenna

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:50 | 3732081 g speed
g speed's picture

@  thx 1178     you sound the troll to me-- "  Official story" is that official speak??  "Steal everything" is that the new official charge against Snowden???  "would have offed him long ago"  Oh oh I'm so scared you make them so powerfull oh my I better just put my head on the chopping block. It makes me want to take a long look at your other comments--  maybe we should not believe your shit?? its shit?? obviouse shit??    just sayin--- 

Tue, 07/09/2013 - 14:05 | 3734642 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Your theory has no credibility.
This would imply the forced landing & detention of President Morales plane, and all the comments of Putin, are all an act, in collusion with the CIA, and would also imply the new result,
the refusal of students to be recruited for spying and to call out recruiters publicly,
is an intended snow job rather than destroying a GENERATION of recruiting for the spy agencies of young, naive but computer-clever / math-clever recruits.
Your theory falls apart completely.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:50 | 3731884 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Easy.  Because Assange was fringe and a piece of cake to attack.  The Guardian, not so much....

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:05 | 3731929 WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

"So why is Assange a criminal for publishing leaks from Bradley Manning, but The Guardian is not a criminal for publishing leaks from Edward Snowden?"

Redpill: two words, GLENN GREENWALD.


Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:15 | 3731963 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

redpill, the UK still has freedom of the press, and a diverse media landscape (of course one that includes Murdoch)

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:36 | 3732382 smacker
smacker's picture

Good question.

The British PRINT media has a very long tradition of "freedom of the press" and only gets hammered when it commits blatant libel. Attempts to gag or control it have consistently failed. Most recently the Leveson Inquiry. Nevertheless, it applies a lot of self-censorship when it suits them.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:55 | 3731686 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Like Phillip Agee?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:01 | 3731704 Freddie
Freddie's picture


Jon's stuff is very good.  CIA is like the Corleone family.  Fredo only left the family in a pine box.   Jon's analysis is the most plausible and others have said similiar things.  We all hope Snowden is a hero but the revelations so far were pretty much known like Echelon was.  Give us something big Snowden-CIA.    Maybe tell us who is really sitting in the White Hut.   

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:10 | 3731743 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

All the infrastructure a Tyrant would need, courtesy of Bush, Obama and Congress Combining the people who didn't trust Bush and the ones who don't trust Obama adds up to a sizable part of the citizenry. But even if all the critics were proved wrong, even if the CIA, NSA, FBI, and every other branch of the federal government had been improbably filled, top to bottom, with incorruptible patriots constitutionally incapable of wrongdoing, this would still be so: The American people have no idea who the president will be in 2017. Nor do we know who'll sit on key Senate oversight committees, who will head the various national-security agencies, or whether the moral character of the people doing so, individually or in aggregate, will more closely resemble George Washington, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, John Yoo, or Vladimir Putin. What we know is that the people in charge will possess the capacity to be tyrants -- to use power oppressively and unjustly -- to a degree that Americans in 1960, 1970, 1980, 1990, or 2000 could've scarcely imagined. To an increasing degree, we're counting on having angels in office and making ourselves vulnerable to devils. Bush and Obama have built infrastructure any devil would lust after.


Behold the items on an aspiring tyrant's checklist that they've provided their successors:

A precedent that allows the president to kill citizens in secret without prior judicial or legislative review

The power to detain prisoners indefinitely without charges or trial

Ongoing warrant less surveillance on millions of Americans accused of no wrongdoing, converted into a permanent database so that data of innocents spied upon in 2007 can be accessed in 2027

Using ethnic profiling to choose the targets of secret spying, as the NYPD did with John Brennan's blessing

Normalizing situations in which the law itself is secret -- and whatever mischief is hiding in those secret interpretations

The permissibility of droning to death people whose identities are not even known to those doing the killing

The ability to collect DNA swabs of people who have been arrested even if they haven't been convicted of anything

A torture program that could be restarted with an executive order

Even if you think Bush and Obama exercised those extraordinary powers responsibly, what makes you think every president would? How can anyone fail to see the huge potential for abuses.






WARNING: The National Security Agency is likely recording and storing this communication as part of its unlawful spying programs on all Americans … and people worldwide. The people who created the NSA spying program say that this communication – and any responses – can and will be used against the American people at any time in the future should folks in government decide to go after us for political reasons. And private information in digital communications may be given to big companies by the government.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:12 | 3731753 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Freddie - in your fireworks for the fourth this year, did you spark off the big box first or lead with a few sparklers for the tease?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:57 | 3731911 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I hope your are right and I hear you.  The other theory that I have heard besides Snowden being CIA is he is older school CIA in there to take down NSA a notch and to also take down you know who.  To leak things that will be too much for ***** to stay on office.

I am starting to believe it is all hope for the masses as the grip of the police state engulfs us even more.  

Until I hear something pretty earthshaking then I am starting to discount Snowden as a weak CIA operation to make NSA look a little bad.  Plus make the masses of sheep and those who care, like us, think their is a glimmer of hope that there is a patriot somewhere trying to save us.  

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:31 | 3732166 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I gotta go with Freddie on this one...


Columbia, MD is "spook city" [for both CIA & NSA]... Ft. Meade is 'closer' though so the NSA 'numbers' are probably higher...

But the NSA chumps are a bunch of fags in Best Buy 'Geek Squad' khakis & blue golf shirts... The CIA dudes tend to run a few generations deep... NSA recruits in geekville... CIA recruits from "family" & "military special ops"...

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:37 | 3732202 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

+1 I think you nailed the difference.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 20:07 | 3732507 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Now we are dissecting...good arguments

and good discussion.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:32 | 3731821 walküre
walküre's picture

Maybe tell us who is really sitting in the White Hut.  

I suspect that he doesn't know that. His revelations are purely confirmation of "tin foil" hat suspicions. Not more and certainly not less. The audience can draw its own conclusions and it's left to anyone's imagination just how deep the rabbit hole goes. Fact that authorities are calling him "traitor" actually elevates his credibility. They can't help themselves and now they pretend it didn't happen. Trying to ignore the problem. Hoping it will blow over. It won't. The damage is done.

The US has LOST massive amounts of credibility. This cannot be repaired and much like on 9/11 when some suggested, life would never be the same after that, there is reason to believe that life will be very different in a post Snowden revelation world.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:54 | 3731904 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



I just checked Google news for the story and …….. nothing - go figure.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:51 | 3731887 ajax
ajax's picture



Why the FUCK are you so obsessed with "hero" and "heroes" ???

Fuck that shit - this average guy, this Snowden became disgusted with what he saw going on and how he was earning a living betraying the public trust: SIMPLE.

Fuck your "Hero" bullshit - all of you. GROW UP.


Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:53 | 3731898 akak
akak's picture

The only 'heroes' I give a damn about have salami, pepperoncini and Italian dressing on them.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 21:40 | 3732768 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Hmm... pepperoncinis. A deli delicacy that isn't available in Australia.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 22:36 | 3732950 chindit13
chindit13's picture

For someone who claims to loathe traditional media and entertainment, it is abundantly clear that your reality and your worldview have been shaped exclusively by Hollywood fare and pulp fiction.  I guess all that stuff is more entertaining than the banality that is the real world.

It is fun to watch folks get suspicious when some truth-teller disappoints, because the talker doesn't corroborate a belief that may well be wrong.  Nobody wants to consider the possibility that some things are never "released" because they don't exist.  The way it is now, if the latest whistleblower doesn't produce docs "proving" one's personal bugaboo, he must be a psy-op.

Cut Snowden some slack.  If you "knew" all of this before, where are your docs?  What are your bonafides?  Internet Mobius Strip "links" don't count.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:06 | 3731544 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Smart idea to release this interview in pieces - prolong the embarassement and allow the US Gov to further shove its foot down its throat!

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:11 | 3731568 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Um ... yeah. Drudge isn't even carrying this BS anymore. ZH should drop it like a bad habit also.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:25 | 3731610 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Congrats: Stupidst comment ever!

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:02 | 3731710 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

You know they've got us where they want us when the majority is questioning the sincerity of a guy who's put his life on the line to expose them.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:07 | 3731937 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I think the question to ask to those who believe this is a big fix is what it would look like to them if it weren't a hoax.  In other words, what would have had to happen, or not happen, for them to believe Ed Snowden is who he claims to be?


I'm not arguing for or against since I haven't a clue but if any agent with good intentions decided to blow the whistle, wouldn't these same people be calling it a hoax regardless of the circumstances?  If not, what are the circumstances to make them buy the story?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:12 | 3731948 kill switch
kill switch's picture

You don't drive a race car you drive a honey wagon...Your motto,,,,Your shit is my bread and butter.LOL

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:45 | 3731863 Fox-Scully
Fox-Scully's picture

Perhaps ZH should drop you.

Tue, 07/09/2013 - 13:59 | 3734618 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Drudge matters for nothing - same as huffpo / puffho and cnn / znn.
ZH runs itself better than the rest which is WHY this story should stay at the top.
Your idiocy is a sign it should be even MORE widely spoken of.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:10 | 3731561 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

The fact that his actions have pulled the wool back from the eyes of the DWTS crowd a wee bit counts for something. Remember, tens of millions of sheeple had NO idea any of this was going on. At least now the rest of us who were aware of these intrusions into privacy can help educate the masses a little easier as to what's really going on with TPTB now that they've been somewhat clued in via mass media.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:19 | 3731597 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

L0L. I heard the same delusional thinking re: Ron Paul.

"Well, at least he educates the masses ... ."


Americans will fall for the same dumb shit - over and over and over. What a bunch of suckers. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:40 | 3731842 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

uh, so do goverments everywhere - fall for the same shit that is. See: history.

we talk about that a lot here. They screw up constantly, overestimate themselves constantly, create enemies within and without constanly, contradict themselves constantly, and corner themselves through all sorts of ego, stupidity, greed, and other endearing qualities. You argue against yourself. Human nature works in every department. Public and private. As the shit hits the fan, more and more folks will get offended, tell secrets, break the code, run away.... 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:20 | 3732158 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

They win. You lose. Every time.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:19 | 3732156 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

You say "clued in", I say "conditioned".

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:07 | 3731933 sgorem
sgorem's picture

@ RCD, can't, in all honesty disprove or prove anything you're sayin, but this dude "AIN'T GETTIN USED TO" any bullshit this government tries to pull off.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:21 | 3731986 putaipan
putaipan's picture

for proof that he is/is not a "limited hangout" check with most current russ tice interview-

(i'm still with the kid even if he is a modern day ellsburg patriot/most dangerous man in america)

as for assange...the  blond aryan mk-ultra-ed rothschild agent -

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:39 | 3732047 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ Francis,

Fuck that, I'm moving to Brazil!

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:36 | 3731827 Morla
Morla's picture

His ex-girlfriend looks like she might weigh the same as a duck..

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:51 | 3731890 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

We'll build a bridge [with a cameltoe] out of her!...

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:38 | 3731451 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

Eddie is the guy the CIA needed...


The CIA, of course, couldn’t be seen as the NSA leaker. They needed a guy. They needed a guy who could appear to be from the NSA, to make things look worse for the NSA and shield the CIA.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:04 | 3731529 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

It would indeed be interesting to know where Snowden flew to in March, April and May 2013, during those times when his girlfriend dropped him to the airport and wrote about it in her blog (wrote that he was away travelling). Is that blog still available, assuming its genuine?

So piece together where he flew to during those 3 months...Virginia perhaps....

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:05 | 3731927 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I am not sure why they are junking you.  Jon Rappoport is right in that he doubts Snowden could have gained access to NSA's secure areas on his own.  The CIA probably go the data for him.   So far they are snacks.  No meat.  Like I said, most people knew about Echelon.   So far Snowden told us they collect everything and work with all the Internet companies.   We pretty much knew that too. 

Start telling us abot Teleprompter you know who and Feinstein, McCain, Pelosi and all the people attacking Snowden.   Tell us about all the evil and corrupt shit these people have done.  Tell us about Benghazi.   Tell us why the key people in the Senate support the Muslim Brotherhood.   Give us some meat Ed. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:46 | 3732226 g speed
g speed's picture

it seems we aready know that already too--right? I  mean you have a pretty good handle on it---so if Snowden give us a scope on obama corruuption you can say "we already knew that give us some meat Ed"

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 20:22 | 3732561 Freddie
Freddie's picture


I cannot argue with you friend.  It is constant BS, lie, deceit, media propaganda to constantly confuse the poor sheep.   Did Bill Casey have a famous quote posted here about lying and confusing the public.  Throw out so many lies and so much confusion that when something real pops up - people shrug their shoulders.  Benghazi was the real deal but it was covered in endless scandal smokescreens.  The same thing with Fast and Furious.   Another day - another scandal.  The new normal.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 20:29 | 3732580 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

still big on snorg-tees, Freddie?
Binney was already clear on this: everything would be encrypted in ThinThread so no one could get the data without a warrant and a key.
Then they dismantled that, siphoned everything & stored it in clear-text for constant appending & analysis.
That left the door wide open.
It was secure. They didn't like it that way.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:45 | 3731466 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Yeah, I read it.  But before I get wrapped around the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt axle, that The Man loves to use when it suits him, allow me to copy/paste one of the responses that nail it, IMO:

   hardy lingam says: July 8, 2013 at 2:37 pm

   And yet a bunch of guys with box cutters created the 911 event — even after the FBI’s own anti-terrorist agents warned their bosses. The Matrix is either not as competent as they pretend, or they are duplicitous. You can’t have it both ways.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:36 | 3731638 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

....or our secret government is warring it out with itself. I don't know if the faction painting the NSA as bad guy are the good guys, but it appears there is discord in spookville.
If sonny boy here has something to spill, I wish he'd get to it before he gets accidentally dead.
I don't think he's a plant. You don't force down and illegally search other country's planes looking for a plant. That's a major crime. At least, it should be. Fucking hijacking.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:09 | 3731657 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

From Zero above:


"The US Government should itself be prosecuted for 'aiding it's enemies'..."


The US Government is indistinguishable from the enemies.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 22:55 | 3733023 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

The US Government is the enemy...there fixed it for ya.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:24 | 3732163 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

There are no good guys.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 20:48 | 3732608 The Count
The Count's picture


That article is freakin brilliant. At least the part where the NSA has the goods on all (well almost) member of congress...and how the string pullers are themselver screwed like a sock puppet to play along, or else. Wanna know why JFK was really killed? Because he wanted to severly dimish the power of the CIA so note this, the CIA, NSA, et al will not be messed with. Shadow government? You got that right.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:30 | 3731423 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

How the fuck?!?  They got the guy recorded trying to cover his tracks, and still no charges?!?  Must be nice to be a top Obama donor.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 20:26 | 3732574 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Clears the way for Corzine to lead the US Treasury.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:28 | 3731421 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

You took my words out of my mouth.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:21 | 3731393 The Proletariat
The Proletariat's picture

Global hero

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:11 | 3731574 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

In somewhat related news... The IRS gets some revenge against the political non-profits who dared to question its power.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:24 | 3731402 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

He did aid the government's enemies - The American People.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:37 | 3731446 SpiceMustFlow
SpiceMustFlow's picture

well put good sir

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:26 | 3731412 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Hero of the Universe! - and it is expanding!

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:44 | 3731460 HowardBeale
HowardBeale's picture

"...and it's expanding."

They're going to need a bigger universe to store all the QE that Bernanke has printed for his co-conspirators.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:34 | 3731433 Stuart
Stuart's picture

Yep!  Those guys who stormed the beaches of Normandy did not do so in order to allow 60 yrs later another totalitarian big brother regime to rise in the West, notably the U.S.   They'd be rolling over in their graves right now, all asking the question, what was the point?!    Talk about Paradise Lost!   Snowden nailed it. Democratic systems are owned by the people, for the people.  It does not sanction any capacity or bestow any right or approval for anyone in the Govt to intervene in the privacy of anyone else without just cause and without warrant.   That certainly is not what the constitution is supposed to be about, unless I read it wrong, many years ago.   Where the hell is the outrage on the U.S. public streets over this?  Is everyone so beaten down, pacified, their will to stand up for what's right and what America should represent is in tatters,  that it's only a shadow of previous generations?    We need those guys who had the guts to storm the beaches on June 6, 1944 back to take back Pennsylvania Ave.   


Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:43 | 3731458 walküre
walküre's picture

American fascism goes way back. Are you still of the persuasion that Americans died on Omaha Beach for a good cause? A better cause than let's say the Wehrmacht ran over Poland? Plenty young guys got brainwashed into thinking and believing they were fighting and dying for the "good cause" and on the right side

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:01 | 3731525 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Just look at what happened. They died for American Empire because that is what we got.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:04 | 3731537 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Operation Paperclip was in effect a coup on very much the same level as 9/11.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:44 | 3731659 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

As much as throwing Japanese Americans in a camp was in effect protoFEMA.
Or Operation Mockingbird, with its wiretapping of Britt Hume was protoPRISM

Still, nobody has seen a second of prison time for either

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:51 | 3731885 franzpick
franzpick's picture

My father left for war in the Pacific and died in the crash of his intelligence flight before I was old enought to talk or to ever know him: when we finally do meet, he will be astounded to learn that his ultimate sacrifice succeeded only in fulfilling the first part of the oath to defend the country against enemies both foreign and domestic, and that the second part of the oath had been left to his only son and his grandchildren.  I'm too old to fight, but when the time comes to join 10 or 20 million Americans in the nations parks, I'll be there til the end, walking like an Egyptian.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:51 | 3731888 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

Is everyone so beaten down, pacified, their will to stand up for what's right and what America should represent is in tatters,  that it's only a shadow of previous generations?  

That is the way it seems to me.  Look around, we're sofffffttt, timid

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:28 | 3732172 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

The final phase of the American coup was 1913-1939. (That's before D-Day.)

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:35 | 3731435 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

American hero or psyops? The rabbit whole runs deep. I would like to believe it's the former, but I suspect it's the latter.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:44 | 3731462 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

"The rabbit whole runs deep"

Well, you wouldn't want just part of the rabbit running deep, would you?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:57 | 3731484 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Oops...Excuse in ass....

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:45 | 3731468 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Psyops? The fucking government is spying on the whole fucking country. What else do you need to know? TPTB are counting on exactly your reaction.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 14:53 | 3731490 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Examine his entire story and then tell me that an agency who can spy on the whole fucking country can't stop this guy or even have prevented him from escaping with this sort of information. TPTB are counting on me buying this story not questioning it.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:03 | 3731535 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

We'll agree to disagree.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:09 | 3731556 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture


Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:12 | 3731577 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

But to what end? Even if this is all a charade, the American people: A) now believe their government spies on them constantly, and B) now believe the agency doing the spying is not good at keeping it a secret.

So what's the angle being played? Because all I see is the government attaining full-retard banana republic status in the eyes of its citizens. If that's what we're supposed to believe, why? I don't see how the government benefits from being perceived as both corrupt and incompetent.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:30 | 3731620 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The majority of the sheep are buying into the traitor meme. It won't be long before they are bleeting for CISPA in the name of national secruity. I hope I'm wrong, I'm not totally convinced either way. I am just skeptical about the whole story.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:38 | 3731645 walküre
walküre's picture

The majority of the sheep have no voice. The media speaks on their behalf.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:52 | 3731676 pods
pods's picture

"A Gallup poll shows that........................"

Yep, nailed it.  I would go further and say the media tells them what to think as well.

Kind of a two birds with one stone thing.


Mon, 07/08/2013 - 22:03 | 3732127 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The sheep enjoy being played by The Matrix by watching TV and hollywood's shit.  If you watch either one then you are contributing to your serfdom. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:40 | 3731648 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

The reason I disagree is I think they're smart enough to find a better way to try to push CISPA through without damaging their credibility in this way. If the nation wasn't so lobotomized, people would be raising hell about it. But they are, so they're not, and another patriot will pass into oblivion with hardly a footnote.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:48 | 3731878 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

The elites are so full of hubris, they, and/or their boyz, are sloppy. They don't give a shit about damaging credibility anymore. If they did care, they would have done cleaner jobs on 9/11 and the JFK, RFK murders. They know the MSM can and will do damage control.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:04 | 3732258 g speed
g speed's picture

may not be working like before---old guy friend I email with (worked with him for years) was a rabid pro war ra ra usa guy--- things are different -the other day he sent me a ZH link---go figure--- its the Snowden effect I got to tell you--- Its a big big deal 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:00 | 3731700 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I'm willing to consider the idea that this could be spun into making the security state go super-Stasi if there is some kind of major attack that can be blamed on "the enemy" having learned from Snowden's revelations. I just don't see all this exposure as intentional, though. It harms all the wrong people (or right people, from my point of view).

What no one should doubt, however, is that there are assholes working furiously behind the scenes to find the ideal "don't let a crisis go to waste" scenario that will screw us over.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:08 | 3731736 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

It's not like he told our "enemies" anything they didn't already know. Everyone spies on everyone else, and they always have. It's understood. Information is exchanged. People are bartered. Give me a fucking break. And evidently, his stated intention of exposing the American public to the truth has fallen on deaf ears. His worst nightmare.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:27 | 3731804 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Did you hear Kim Kardashian had a baby!?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 22:50 | 3733006 phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

Wish I didn't just bust out laughin, Skate.  Better'n cryin' I spose.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:58 | 3732469 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, there is no traitor meme. Only a push from the MSM. The majority of the sheep refuse to even LISTEN to the word SNOWDEN because it doesn't sound like "snooki"

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 22:54 | 3733020 phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

Ya know, Bogs, I betcha there's peeps right now thinkin that may be the next necessary step, incorporate Jaywow and Snooki into this narrative to boost the impact and broaden the audience.

Tue, 07/09/2013 - 22:33 | 3736163 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Reality TV gold!

Snooki, Honey Boo Boo and Kim Kardashian all forced to live in a CIA dark-site, trusted with the most secret of unlawful spying and able to "vote them off the Island" against their fellow "celebs" by leaking and pinning it on someone else!

I can't fucking wait for the fall TV season now.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:11 | 3731741 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

@mcmolotov. Exactly. Unless the government actually wants to incite the average sheep to take potshots at them, psyops makes as much sense as asking your own wife to report you for watching kiddie porn. 

 We have the National Intelligence director James Clapper telling bald faced lies to Congress on record, we have Obummer asking the EU to hijack a diplomatic jet (and the garlic munchers obeying) on record, we have the smack-me-in-the-fucking-face global colossus revelation of the blanket surveillance of our allies. The fact that the msm are doing the usual smear song and dance along with death threats and obsfucated "shill" allegations against Snowden tells me he is most likely to be "one of us" - a guy with a conscience. 

All I want for Christmas is another whistleblower or dozen from the upgraded Operation Mockingbird to tell the whole world about the thousands of bastards in the media who pull the wool over the eyes of every sheep on the planet. We get that, and we are half way to becoming free. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:53 | 3731895 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"psyops makes as much sense as asking your own wife to report you for watching kiddie porn."

With this bunch, logic does not always appear to apply.

"The genius of you Americans is that you never make clear-cut stupid moves, only complicated stupid moves which make the rest of us wonder at the possibility that we might be missing something." - Gamal Abdel Nasser

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:11 | 3731947 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Look, we already knew EVERYTHING Snowden has released, except some technical details on PRISM (which we don't even know the factual accuracy of either).  Echelon, wiretapping, backdoors, all this stuff had been talked about for years already.  Everyone (informed and aware any way) knows about the new NSA superspying facility. 

Everyone knew Facebook was started by spooks already.

I think its a case of infighting, one group taking a potshot at the other (in this case, the CIA vs the NSA).  Look, budget allocations matter.  CIA had 4.5b removed from their annual budget.  That works out to reducing the market cap of cronies how much?  50 to 60 billion?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:45 | 3732217 20834A
20834A's picture

I really can't claim to know what the situation is, but... When I had just gotten my TS-CW clearance, James Bamford had just published The Crystal Palace, revealing what I knew to be TS info about the NSA. We were ordered not to comment to the press in any way, shape, or form. There was much gnashing of teeth. He's also the one who revealed the real dope on Echelon, the satellite capabilities and new computer/microphone tech. He wasn't considered a "plant" back in the day by my superiors. Just sayin...

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 21:02 | 3732661 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

No what you think you knew was merely confirmed and outlined. You didn't know jack squat until Snowden confirmed it.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:33 | 3731824 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

New banana republic normal.

And in retrospect, the US was always about some banana
sort of business. Add some gunships for visualization.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 22:45 | 3732989 phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

Mac, I think you are getting close to the 'heart' of this whole affair.  People keep lumping together the NSA's unquestioned ability to 'know' everything about everyone with their willingness/CAPABILITY to act upon same.  Did NSA personnel just kill Michael Hastings? I doubt it.  Did the NSA guys threaten Justice Roberts to change his vote on Obamadon'tcare? Probably not.  Did any NSA personnel blackmail the generals, law firms, congresscritters, supreme court justices (and many others in the judiciary) AS FORMER NSA EMPLOYEE RUSS TICE SAID WAS POSSIBLE with the INFORMATION that the NSA was tasked to collect (he indicated his own - literally hands on - involvement with several of these cases). 

I know no more than anyone else about what is up here, but I believe - as was stated by an intelligence guy months ago " Factions of the US government are waging war upon one another".

Ed Snowden, by ANY historical metric, would NOT be able to do what he appears to have done on his own.

Tue, 07/09/2013 - 00:45 | 3733247 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

Yes he would if he was a system administartor. Wait, he was...

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:00 | 3731908 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

I don't see the Gubmint spying so much as aggregating data into profiles for us all for some future use, future use likely being to control and manipulate, perhaps destroy...  Gubmint purportedly endeavoring to protect us now in order to control us in the future...

A ruse, a fraud, evil.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:55 | 3732454 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

the story explains it very well: they have too many loose ends, too much siphoning of data and not enough ANALYSIS. The data comes in faster than they can make sense of it. Their AI's are devoted to recognition of patterns of faces, motion & communication but not MOTIVE. They can't figure out in advance who will leak and that means ANY of them could be a rogue agent. They will never know until it's too late.
That's not the SNOWDEN story. That's what Drake & Binney have been saying repeatedly.

The powers that be are counting on you saying what you just did - it gives them the ultimate power.

The only power you have against them is to go WITH the proof they are criminals NOT AGAINST IT.

You've double-crossed yourself. Precisely what they've counted on. You've been played.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:30 | 3732178 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"TPTB are counting on exactly your reaction"

Denial ain't just a river in cheesepope-controlled Egypt, fool.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:01 | 3731528 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

You're giving them too much credit.  They're evil as fuck, and they've murdered thousands, and are some of the top planners of the world, but in the end, they are government people, and more importantly they're just people.  They're not omnipotent, not all-seeing, they are a huge machine.  It is not in any of their interests to have this leaked.  It's not a result of a pissing contest between FBI, CIA, and NSA, though a pissing contest does exist. 

They wouldn't willingly disclose these programs.  They love secrecy too much for scores of reasons.  If Snowden hadn't happend, many's first learning experience of this machine would be when family members, coworkers and friends started to be "disappeared".  That's how they would want it.  Snowden just took a giant shit in the punchbowl, and now their positioning is exposed.  To retain power, these bozos need consent of the governed, and the illusion of politicians "caring".  Without consent, they can only rule by force.  That's not going to work very well in the US if it get's to brass tacks. 

It's extremely unlikely that Snowden is a psyop.  It would be the most fucking retarded op in the history of ops if it were. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:06 | 3731542 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Shaftoe, don't be a meathead.

Retarded op, or limited hang out?

You don't want to overestimate your opponent, its true, but underestimating them might be worse.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:49 | 3731619 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

When they do limited hang-outs, they very predictably do it through .gov people, NOT contractors, e.g. disposable Generals (or colonels - Contra), CIA operatives, Senators or Congressmen.   Exposing that the contractors essentially have all the keys to the kingdom is not the optics that they want out there.  That revelation to the public may, in itself, be as damaging as the content.  The government doesn't need to be creative.  Their typical bullshit is quite enough to keep the masses blinded.  They don't deviate from the manual unless they have to.  This was an extreme deviation.  It's just not how things are done.  Hence, it's very unlikely it's fabricated. 

Know yourself and not your enemy and you will be victorious in half of your battles, know your enemy and not yourself, and you will also be successful in half of your battles.  Know your enemy and yourself and you will not be imperiled in any engagment - (paraphrased Sun Tzu)

I've worked in Mordor.  I know the limitations and the mode of operation, the bias towards process.  Even for isolated elite teams that have no constraints, they default back to their old training and biases.  To really understand how these people work, you have to have lived in it.  If history was different, it could have been me being written about while I bought a rubber raft and paddled my ass off to Ecuador, or Venesuela trying not to get shot up by a reaper drone. 

I'm pretty good at reading this shit, so much so that I have predicted their next move several times.  I believe this guy is the real deal, and has done a service to humanity.  It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, but recognizing it as it is will help sharpen your spidey senses. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:29 | 3731811 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Respek... for working in Mordor and all.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:14 | 3731955 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Only called you a meathead in re: to the Shaftoes in Neal Stephenson's work.

I am cynical as all hell, what can I say.  Its worked for me so far, and I definitely entertain the notion that Snowden is legit.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:37 | 3732197 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

I entertain the notion that the Oreo might be a clueless stooge, as opposed to a willing and knowing stooge, but that's only because I lack sufficient verifiable evidence to prove the latter beyond all doubt whatsoever.

Either way, I'm skeptical as hell.

Snowden would seem a lot more legit if anyone had seen him in 2 weeks, if he'd broken anything substantial, even secondarily to the fluff, and if his outrageous claims and bizarre background didn't literally set off every alarm in my head. Oh, and if he wasn't a "former" spook...

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 18:54 | 3732243 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Not many get the reference.  I'm with you on the cynical bit.  At this point anytime someone slips down the stairs, you have to wonder these days if some spook is behind it. 

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 23:24 | 3733121 phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

Sarge, I've read and re-read both your above posts and think they are amongst the most significant that I've ever read on ZH. And I do thank you deeply for your service. The impact of the surveillance on 'decision-makers' may be the most immediate consequence of this data gathering (blackmail/extortion) etc., exponentially leading to an end of political/social life as we have known it. 

The only difference we may have in analysis of this affair is my 'take' that there may be 'good guys' in some position of authority (you do not get much higher than 4 star Marine generals such as Cartwright), who have sanctioned, supported and done their level best by using this Snowden matter in an attempt to halt the ever-growing onslaught of atrocities carried out by NON NSA personnel using the data that the NSA is tasked/able to generate.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 16:19 | 3731774 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Anything getting MSM coverage is to be viewed with suspicion.

They don`t call us conspiracy nut cases for nothing.
We are here to crack their spin and not just to be divided
like the crowds.

None of those "revelations" were not published before,
most of it by IT related publications covering a wide audience , just short of MSM.

Wiki leakage yielded exactly nothing, why would we be snowdensed this time around ?

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 17:10 | 3731946 walküre
walküre's picture

the coverage is muted

Tue, 07/09/2013 - 00:58 | 3733263 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

Here's a very interesting interview between Charlie Rose and 2 editors from The Guardian that may answer your points:


They are vetting what they publish with the NSA before they publish it to see if there is anything specifically damaging to National Security. If the NSA can point to a specificly damaging revelation they won't publish it. This is how they've avoided the infamous 'D noitice' and why nothing spectacular has come out.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 19:51 | 3732446 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

jackass: sorry but that's the story. They are all seeing because they built machines that are & bent the law & bribed people in every manner possible to get it that way. That's literally the story, not a metaphor.
Doesn't make them omnipotent or omniscient but it makes them incredibly dangerous and they're NOT DONE YET.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:11 | 3731547 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

There are a few parts of this story that lead me to beleive it is not a psy-op.

1. Naming the large companies outright (Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft) that the NSA PRISM program has back door access too.

This is a direct attack on the bottom line of these companies and to name them directly has caused people to delete and exit their services in droves. Most of the people with any IT savy that I know personally have dumped their online products on this revelation. It takes longer to dump hardware (phones) and operating systems but the move away from Apple, Android and Windows over to linux and open source based products is the last thing they want.

2. Outing the spying on Allies, G8 summits and the EU parliament.

Not seeing much in the US news on this but this is a major story in the EU especially in Germany. Also Russ Tice coming forward with new revelations on the NSA targeting ALL us politicans, judges and pretty much everyone in Washington.

3. Forcing the Bolivian air force one down based on a rumour that Snowden was aboard.

4. Unified US media, US government and it's whores naming him a traitor and the mass preception management campaign by US psy-ops to repeat the same message across most news media comment sections.

These sock accounts are using the 'asch conformity' to sway the masses into parroting the traitor theme, they really have pulled out all the stops on this aspect of their operation it is one of their most powerful tools and they are using it extensively to try and sway public opinion on this.

I could be wrong and there is definitely a chance this is a psy-op but it has been passing my sniff test....for now.





Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:11 | 3731573 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well I hope you're right, but I remain skeptical. Hell I'm so skeptical that I sometimes think the Hedge is just another control system in the Matrix.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:15 | 3731581 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

I am as much as you Doc...just throwing my personal observations out there.

Mon, 07/08/2013 - 15:59 | 3731698 pods
pods's picture

Look at it like this:

As long as we keep the focus on the power that was usurped and NOT about the guy, this can be a good thing.

I don't care whether information is delivered by a traitor, patriot, hero (hate that word), or pizza guy.

If the information leads to a general distrust of the government, and doesn't get derailed by paparazzi stuff it can be good.

Like OWS, which was critisized highly because there was no leader.  No leader, no leader to bully, bribe, or co-opt.

I saw many ordinary people espousing what we talk about every day here, one guy in particular nailing it on the banks, debt, the FED, everything.  

Maybe we have a hero worship culture, looking for the purest one only to deliver us from evil, when in fact we just need to stop thinking about heroes and start thinking?


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