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11 Signs That Italy Is Descending Into A Full-Blown Economic Depression

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Snyder via The Economic Collapse blog,

When you get into too much debt, really bad things start to happen.  Sadly, that is exactly what is happening to Italy right now.  Harsh austerity measures are causing the Italian economy to slow down even more than it was previously.  And yet even with all of the austerity measures, the Italian government just continues to rack up even more debt.  This is the exact same path that we watched Greece go down. 

Austerity causes government revenues to drop which causes deficit reduction targets to be missed which causes even more austerity measures to become necessary.  But if Italy collapses economically, it is going to be a far bigger deal than what happened in Greece.  Italy is the ninth largest economy on the entire planet.  Actually, Italy used to be number eight, but now Russia has passed it. 

If Italy continues to stumble, India and Canada will soon pass it as well.  It really is a tragedy to watch what is happening in Italy, because it really is a wonderful place.  When I was a child, my father was in the navy, and I got the opportunity to live there for a while.  It is a land of great weather, great food and great soccer.  The people are friendly and the culture is absolutely fascinating.  But now the nation is falling apart. 

The following are 11 signs that Italy is descending into a full-blown economic depression...

#1 The unemployment rate in Italy has risen to 12.2 percent.  That is the highest that it has been in more than 35 years.

#2 The youth unemployment rate in Italy is sitting at 38.5 percent, and in southern Italy it recently hit the 50 percent mark.

#3 An average of 134 retail outlets are shutting down in Italy every single day.  Overall, approximately 224,000 retail establishments have closed since 2008.

#4 Italy's economy has now been contracting for seven quarters in a row.

#5 It is being projected that Italy's GDP will shrink by 1.8 percent this year.

#6 Industrial production in Italy has declined for 15 months in a row.  It has now fallen to its lowest level in about 25 years.

#7 Overall, factory output in Italy has fallen by about one-fourth since 2008.

#8 In May, automobile sales in Italy were down 8 percent compared to one year earlier.

#9 The number of people that are considered to be "seriously deprived" in Italy has doubled over the past two years.

#10 Italy now has a debt to GDP ratio of 130 percent.

#11 It is being projected that Italy will need a major EU bailout within six months.

At this point, Italy is flat broke.

And unlike the U.S. or Japan, Italy cannot run over to a central bank and have them print up oodles of new money with which to buy up government bonds.  Italy is married to the euro, and so that greatly limits their options.  Unfortunately, the money is rapidly running out.  The following is from a recent article by Wolf Richter...

In most countries, it would be an act of mind-bending chutzpah, or perhaps a display of political insanity, but in Italy it barely made ripples: for a government official, a minister no less, to declare that the country cannot pay its long overdue bills, and not for a month or two, but for the rest of this year! Due to "technical" problems.

 

The Italian government is out of money. Not that the US government is in any better shape in that respect, or the Japanese government for that matter, but they have central banks that print the missing moolah with lavish abandon. Italy doesn't. It has the ECB which is run by an Italian who promised last year to print with lavish abandon to keep countries like Italy afloat. But that promise is not the same thing as having your own central bank.

 

On July 4, Italy's budget fiasco came to light once again. Wracked by the pretense of austerity, expenditures rose 1.3% in the first quarter, while revenues remained flat. So the deficit rose to 7.3% of GDP, up from 6.6% last year, bringing the national debt to 130% of GDP. Ballooning debt and deficits in a shriveling economy – Italy has been in recession since the fourth quarter of 2011 – is a toxic combination in the Eurozone.

While those numbers may sound really bad, the reality is that the people that are suffering the most are the average folks on the street.  Many Italians have been completely blindsided by this economic depression, and suicides are skyrocketing...

In Italy, the tragic stories of suicides apparently linked to the deep recession are becoming all too frequent. Last month, a former factory worker hanged himself near Turin because he could not find work, his relatives said. In May, a young man committed suicide outside of Rome shortly after he lost his job. The next day, Italian President Giorgio Napolitano begged the government to deliver “the utmost attention for situations of greatest malaise and need” to help stop the wave of suicides.

That is absolutely tragic.

But you know what?

The United States is headed down the same path that Italy has gone.

In the coming years unemployment and suicide will both skyrocket here too.

Those that are sticking their heads in the sand right now will be absolutely blindsided by what is coming.  But those that understand what is on the horizon and are preparing for it will have the best chance of making it through.

Italy is kind of like the Leaning Tower of Pisa.  Everyone knows that it is going to fall eventually, and when it does fall it is going to be a major disaster.

When the financial system of Italy totally implodes, that will be a sign that things are really starting to accelerate.  Expect dominoes to start tumbling much more rapidly in the aftermath.

 

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Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:34 | 3737272 Manthong
Manthong's picture

The good news is that they have substantial gold reserves safely secured in the US,

Right?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:41 | 3737295 Fuh Querada
Fuh Querada's picture

a goodie on KWN today

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2013/7/9_Gam...

 

"....Regarding that gold, which could have had the symbol of the Bundesbank on it when it arrived in Hong Kong, a leading refiner, one of the biggest in the world that deals with the People’s Bank of China (PBOC), certified that, ‘Yes, we’ve got gold available that we can deliver.  We’ve melted it down, we’ve tested it.  It may have had the Bundesbank symbol on it when it arrived, but now it’s melted down .9999 (fine) gold.’..... 


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:18 | 3737463 Manthong
Manthong's picture

blasphemy..

remember.. "full faith and CREDIT"

don't leave home without it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:37 | 3737588 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

"This note is legal Tinder....."

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:55 | 3737664 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

A few years ago I gave my sister some advice: "marry an Italian chef (in Italy) and run a mom'n'pop."

Might have to take that back.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:02 | 3737703 Manthong
Manthong's picture

no, man..  I think you were good with that..

good and/or productive service ...  but.. need to be aware of the pitfalls that whichever .gov puts in the way ...

low profile..  and keep your back to the wall.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:03 | 3737966 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Italy: where repossession is becoming 9/10th of the law.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:12 | 3738020 Manthong
Manthong's picture

nah..  it could never be like Cyprus,,

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:27 | 3738384 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Trattorie, putane!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:39 | 3737597 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

""The good news is that they have substantial gold reserves safely secured in the US,""

 

Hehehehe ... We All Know How Well BEN Shalom ET AL Guards Their Physical GOLD...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:03 | 3737960 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

At least from official reporting, Italy has about 2500 tonnes of gold.  It seems increasingly likely that they (along with Portugal and Greece) are being specifically targetted for their gold holdings.  

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:09 | 3738279 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Or maybe those are simply democracies run amok, with populations voting themselves goodies out of the public treasury rather than working, saving, and investing to get what they want. The founders warned of this, based on their knowledge of past collapses dating back to antiquity, and the origins of the word demagogue.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:46 | 3738452 Seer
Seer's picture

The cows are out of the barn, I think that we all recognize that.  PF's statement is still THE relevant angle/question (though it only seem like a logical extension of the BIG PATH).

Italy doesn't have energy.  In a world dominated by energy anyone without energy, no matter their style of money management (or lack there of), is ultimately of no real determinant of the final outcome.  The BIG PATH is dominated by the energy theme.

If the "founders" were here today I could easily derail most of what they'd projected by confronting them with simple math (growth and exponential functions): did any of them have any real mathematical acumen? (many of them proved to be really bad with their own money- and why would we expect ANY politician to behave anyway other than this?)  Issac Asimov elucidated it quite well with his metaphor of "the bathroom:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1ZX-x7sySI

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:40 | 3737298 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

that reminds me... did they already get the water out since that flooding? Do people now get to go see their gold?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:29 | 3737806 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

Yeah, right. All nicely together with the gold reserves of the US itself.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:02 | 3738240 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Audit the Manthong!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:35 | 3737277 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Mario won't let that happen

It can't happen.

Errr ... maybe it won't happen

please ... please let it happen

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:08 | 3737423 asteroids
asteroids's picture

That asshole is seeing people kill themselves because they have lost hope. What do he and his central bank assholes do? Ignore them. Historically, they do so at their peril.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:59 | 3737687 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Squid radar says:

[x] Fed
[X] ECB
[x] BoE

The takeover is complete. Full steam ahead!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 16:49 | 3738966 Seer
Seer's picture

"people kill themselves because they have lost hope."

Not trying to be trite or insensitive (I had a sibling commit suicide, in which case I have had a bit of a peek at what this means), but perhaps they should never have sought out "hope?" (I'd think that the "Obama = Hope" thing should have made this quite clear, put it to rest.)

My favorite definition of "hope," one that I think is most accurate, was concocted by one of Derrick Jensen's audiences:

"Hope is a longing for a future condition over which you have no agency."

"Hope" and "unicorns" differ little.

As long as you're insistent upon operating in a perpetual-growth paradigm with a bunch of sharks (mobsters, govt, big business, church, military etc.) then you're clearly working against the odds of generating any results that are personally favorable to you.

"What do he and his central bank assholes do? Ignore them. Historically, they do so at their peril."

Does anyone really expect them to start giving the shirts off their backs (everything seemingly feeling that way to them)?  One does not maintain a hierarchical structure by flattening it out!  "Historically" They may end quickly, but their seeds still abound... AND! people are ignorant enough to think that they were involved in "fixing" things, only to merely end up changing the players (the "shoot the bastards" mentality, which ends up with a bunch of dead bastards and the System just regenerates new, live, ones).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 17:23 | 3739082 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

If they want government then they are getting what they deserve - the consequences of their actions - good and hard.

All government lovers should be Darwin Award winners.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:56 | 3737674 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"anything it takes"

from GS, JPM, FRB, BOJ  ...

same difference

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:37 | 3737283 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If it was totally about debt, Japan would have been dead and buried already.

Japan is in worse debt shape than Italy, yet their 10yr bond yield is .87%.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:39 | 3737292 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Personal savings is the difference. Japan can still fund their debt internally (well, maybe not much longer) but Italy cannot.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:50 | 3737880 Manthong
Manthong's picture

not without the FRB with swaps as a backstop like they did with LTRO1 an LTRO2 for the ECB

get hip..   SMOKE AND MIRRORS.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:55 | 3737367 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Japan has a central bank and their own currency, of course.  And deflationary pressures have helped keep interest rates on that debt neary zero since I was a mere lad.  Whether Abe's "kitchen sink" reflation plan will work or put the final nail in their coffin.... who knows.  Remember that .87% used to be .37% not more than a few months ago, if memory serves.

It's combination of big debt and not having your own printing press that puts Euro-zone debtors into trouble so quick when they step over that invisible interest rate line. 

Of the two ends of that spectrum, I think the US most closely resembles the Japan situation.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:00 | 3737390 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The difference between Japan and the US is that the Japanese will quietly sit there as their economy implodes and they starve to death. Here in the US, we'll riot and start eating each other.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:08 | 3737425 Forward History
Forward History's picture

I'll be Rick, you be Shane. What's the worst that can happen?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:16 | 3738044 Manthong
Manthong's picture

some nip said something about every blade of grass.. i forget what that was about.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:18 | 3738335 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

What happens though when America invades itself? Maybe a Zimmerman acquittal will let us rerun the Rodney King riots here in 2013, so we can see what holds today. We have far more militarized police in the us today, but also lots of guns, bullets, and a rate of zombie themed entertainment consumption that presages that Something Graphic This Way Comes. Like a whole month of Chicagoesque blue state mayhem, but per hour, for a couple of days.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:11 | 3737739 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

In Japan they are already ready (though diminishing with each generation - but only ever so slightly) to return to a far more sustainable mode of civilization. Their national culture never really left that mode, and it will save them from a total societal implosion.

Those countries whose societies long ago abandoned the cultures that no longer suited their fancy progressive bourgeois modernity ... they'll pay for it in blood, and the rest will laugh at their hubris.

What works, versus what sounds good.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 16:51 | 3738975 Seer
Seer's picture

"Whether Abe's "kitchen sink" reflation plan will work or put the final nail in their coffin.... who knows."

I do.

It ain't.

Questions?  Wagers?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:03 | 3737393 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Japan has a printing press and they actually make stuff. Italy has.......wel they have????l... Ahhh they have Bunga Bunga.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:05 | 3737412 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Italy has a shtload of gold. That is all they have going for them.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:09 | 3737433 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Not for long. The Eurocrats will be demanding that shortly.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:12 | 3737448 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Italy will leave the euro before they sell that gold.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:36 | 3737574 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

No, Brussels will take their gold then kick them out of the yooro.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:34 | 3737811 ArgentoFisico
ArgentoFisico's picture

We do have just a little bit of our gold here in Rome ... majority is at the FED (sure, it's there ...)

Video on today fight in italian parlament. One from the "Democratic Party" takes on a 5 star one. The 5 stars were clapping hands to the 1 day suspension of works of the parliament decided by BananaBerlusconiParty & Democrats to protest (!!!) against the judges that want to put B. in jail for tax evasion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qGO7ZldQzQg

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:32 | 3738125 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I sure hope you're right.  In fact, I'd like to see all the countries with decent gold holdings leave the EU.

Then you'd have a real Shock & Awe show.  If they had guns.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:09 | 3737436 kito
kito's picture

fantastic wines............rolling hills...........wonderful coastline....................skiing in the alps (just ask simon black).........................greatest pizza in the world found in naples.................fonz....why are you dissin your paisans!!!!!!!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:49 | 3737615 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Fonz is being stunod.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:stunod

It is hilarious if you use southern Italian dialect with northern Italians.  It is like eBonics to them.  The northern Italians are real snobs but it is a wonderful country.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:57 | 3737678 cifo
cifo's picture

They also make ferarris, maseratis, vespas. And helicopters.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:16 | 3737758 Freddie
Freddie's picture

And motorcycles - mama mia!  Ducatis, MV August (F3,F4), Aprilla (RSV4) to name a few.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:31 | 3737817 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Berettas...  RIV bearings...  I hope they can pull themselves together because it is a wonderful country.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:38 | 3738138 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Italy.  Wasn't that one of those cowardly countries that rolled over, and denied air passage to the Bolivian President Evo Morales?

We should have all US and NATO tanks made in Italy:  1 Forward gear, 4 Reverse.  Peace would brake out everywhere.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:20 | 3738348 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

That's France

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:34 | 3737559 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

haha, i bet not for long.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:33 | 3738129 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Is the Vatican like The City in London ?  Couldn't the Italian government just move the location of their Gold to internal location behind the Vatican walls ?

It would be like an internal thing...and might encapsulate their Gold so it becomes 'untouchable'. 

Just a thought about where the Gold may go to be safeguarded.

Has Italy requested to have its physical Gold returned ?  when ?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:19 | 3737472 CH1
CH1's picture

Italy has.......well they have????

Southern Italy grows an immense amount of foodstuffs. Northern Italy manufactures a LOT of things.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:26 | 3737505 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well they do have two of my favorite gun manufacturers I'll give them that..Benelli and Beretta.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:48 | 3737633 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Beretta has been in business for what? 600 years. 

There is also phamaceutical companies in the north, Ferrari, high end metal casting and a lot more.  Italy and most of Europe got slammed by the expensive Euro, insanely corrupt EUSSR and then the scum in Brussels sold out to China plus allowed open borders.  So the continent is slammed by an expensive currency, Chinese imports and illegal aliens everywhere called asylum seekers plus endless laws from Brussels. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:35 | 3737832 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Speaking from my own association to Italia over the last 17-years (through marriage, living there for 6-years), that's pretty damn exactly what I saw/see every year when I visit.

1.  Immigration:  Catch-22 here...very low birth rate in Italia, so the flood gates have been opened.  In my wife's small Northeastern town the demographics have changed as evidently an army of Indians have moved in over the last ten years.  Great right?  No...they purchased a couple of bars/caffes, a small grocery store, tobacco shop (more like an American convenience store), and other normal service stores.  They only shop amongst those Indian-owned properties and avoid spending their coin anywhere else.  I used to be able to walk down the street and exchange friendly greetings with complete Italian strangers; now, when I say a normal greeting in Italiano, I am greeted with silence at best, and angry looks more often. 

2.  Cheap imports:  The specific area of Italia in question used to be full of quality furniture factories.  Seems like most are shuttered now, replaced by cheap Asian crap.  Clothing stores are being hurt by the Mercato culture that have become more and more like U.S. flea markets full of knock-off clothing and apparel booths.  No doubt the IVA tax always depressed spending, but now domestic manufacturers have both hands tied behind their backs in this fight.

Oh, and in a "free country," my in-laws now have to fill-out forms to justify any bank transfers or withdrawals above the equivalent of $1,000.  And there is a nice .gov bureaucrat whose job it is to drive around and log any residential properties not being actively lived-in and to force the owners to accept tenants, usually the poor downtrodden immigranti.  God forbid they don't pay rent because you'll be in court for over a year and even then you may be forced to sell at a .gov set "market price" to the poor downtrodden tenants.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:31 | 3738119 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Chaos_Theory, Nos. 1 and 2 are very much occurring in No. California as I glance around;

No. 3 is horrific.  Did the italian IRS use banking software to detect over-spenders under-reporting, or was that just Greece?

These go-damned technocrats and what they do with the techno...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:01 | 3739194 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Evil NWO bastards.  F the immigranti too. Italy's furniture, silk, woolen clothing and other areas have been hammered by cheap Chinese crap just like furniture companies in the USA.  The UK used to be safe to walk around but illegal/asylum seekers make in dangerous.  Italy was okay and Germany was among the safest. I have not been back in a while.  Probably shit now too.

Another BS in Italy is if you paint your house your taxes go up?? WTF?  You can see a home in Italy and the outside looks like crap but the inside is gorgeous.  One of the nicest interior decorated houses I ever visited was in N Italy.  All very understated and tasteful not some Sopranos home in N Jersey. 

Someone told me if you fix up the exterior - they will tax you more.

Meanwhile, the Germans sweep the street in front of their homes.  Some even wash and scrub the sidewalk. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:37 | 3737814 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

World class fashion, wines, sports cars, culture and cuisine.

Beautiful women and jaw-dropping scenery that draw tourists from around the globe.

And despite the current economic situation, the people there seem happy. A lot happier than the miserable, anti-depressant- and opioid- popping Americans.

Italy has a lot going for it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:25 | 3738372 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Deathbed demographics mean it will no longer be Italian in a half century from now, but other than this little issue of the society having committed suicide (it is a done deal, baked in) Italy is doing veramente fantastico.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:48 | 3738462 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Japan also has thyroid cancer, hence they know not to eat each other.

Americans eat pink slime already, eating each other would be a step towards healthful foodstuffs.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 17:00 | 3739008 Seer
Seer's picture

"and they actually make stuff"

Aye, but the string is getting harder and harder to push on...

Ultimate measure is what it always has been about- PHYSICAL RESOURCES: only in the Disney-induced "American Dream" era has this been clouded over via "financial" smoke and mirrors.  I've stated it many time before: Japan is a small island nation lacking substantial natural resources (for the global market- internally they have a fair amount of arable land, and, until recently, fishing waters) and relies on exports in order to obtain precious energy (net energy importer).

I don't think that being able to fake it for longer is any real advantage.  Italy surely has to be seeing the wall approaching.  Japan is continuing to play Kabuki theatre (and the West is probably holding the strings).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:21 | 3737486 tictawk
tictawk's picture

@fonzannoon

Japan has trade surpluses to fall back on for a number of years.  That surplus has recently disappeared and that's why their situation has become more dire.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:25 | 3737499 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I hear you, my point was that it's not just abut debt. Japan controls it's currency, and can play games. Italy is stuck.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 17:08 | 3739031 Seer
Seer's picture

And oil's up over $106/bbl.

All it takes is a small panic before any semblance of stability goes out the window.  Have to think that USTs are gonna start being liquidated, and that this will only assist in knocking down Japan's exports.  They'll need more and more (as an overall percentage of wealth/GDP) to go toward energy imports.  Folks in Hawaii might want to consider risks... (if the US really trashes its bonds then big holders, especially foreign ones, are going to feel a bit pissed; broke nations w/o energy [US blocked oil supply lines to Japan back in WWII times] tend to get a bit violent...)  I don't think that this is any big stretch of imagination here (well, not for my imaginative mind!).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:37 | 3737285 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

They make great wine though.

 

They should break Italy into two countires, the "good Italy" (Tuscany and north) and the "bad Italy" (the south) and lard all the bad debt on bad Italy.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:53 | 3737312 Manthong
Manthong's picture

.. dupe

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:03 | 3737353 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Economies can thrive in all kinds of conditions..

umm.. the Cat Lady of Catania..  the Whispering bush of Glyphada..

Nice ladies in Nice... the peripherals will persevere..

oops.  I forgot about the Pie Hole of Pireas..  but that is all just rumor from back in the day.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:28 | 3738385 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Because southern "bad" Italy can and will pay. That will fix things up. You betcha.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 17:10 | 3739038 Seer
Seer's picture

Tough crowd!

Mentioning wine I would think might be the give-away that this should be interpreted as being tongue-in-cheek!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:41 | 3737305 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

Italy cannot be "bailed out".  Italy will leave the Euro as will Greece, Spain, Portugal, and France.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:53 | 3737358 youngman
youngman's picture

I hope so...I love to vacation in Italy...great food and drinks....happy good looking people...and they have style...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:12 | 3737419 Manthong
Manthong's picture

hen dude..  my last visit to Rome was a little disturbing with all the graphitti and maniacal driving.

but then again.. they now have a Jesuit in charge of stuff in the Vatican.. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:18 | 3737473 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

I thought the maniacal driving was a great part of the experience.  First time I ever had an elderly person cut me off onto an exit and flip me off for getting in her way.  To the above post, agree 100% great food, beautiful people, and no shortage of history to suck in.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:34 | 3737560 Manthong
Manthong's picture

my idea of great driving is a Mercedes 5 series rented in Munich and a run south on the Autobahn through the mountains at speeds the normal american cannot fathom.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:55 | 3737673 Variance Doc
Variance Doc's picture

Dude, there is no such thing as a 5 series Mercedes.  There is a 5 series BMW, though.

Mercedes are built to run all day and night on the 'bahn at very high speeds, hence the 8+ liters of engine oil for even the V6s.  Great cars!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:04 | 3737715 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The comparable Mercedes would be the 300 class.   Merc designations confuse the hell out of me. Add in the AMG stuff and it is worse.   My guess is if he rented it in Munich - it was a 5 series BMW as Munich is BMW company town. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:12 | 3737743 Manthong
Manthong's picture

sorry ...   i have to find the receipt 

it wasn't a beamer..  but it was a big mercedes.. and I was in ecstasy at every moment over 180 km/h

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:12 | 3737969 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

"Dude, there is no such thing as a 5 series Mercedes."

 

Mercedes E550 4Matic Sedan  --> http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/legacy/vehicles/model?class=E&model=E550W4

 

SL 550 Roadster --> http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/legacy/vehicles/model?class=SL&model=SL550R

 

If it's just about the word "series", then no, Mercedes doesn't use that word per se.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:26 | 3738628 Variance Doc
Variance Doc's picture

Wrong.

In BMWspeak, there is the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, etc. "series" of cars.

In Mercedesspeak, there is the A, C, E, S, etc. "class" of cars.

The number in the designation indicates the engine displacement (usually, but not always, e.g. 335i is a 3 series with a 3 liter turbo motor - not a 3.5 liter motor).  Hence, the 550 is a 5.5 liter engine, but in two DIFFERENT classes.

Got it?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 17:50 | 3739163 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Ahh okay, got it. Thanks.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:59 | 3737692 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The Munich-Salzburg Autobahn.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:30 | 3737797 Manthong
Manthong's picture

btw.. the only thing that is more fun than screaming through the Alps in a big Mercedes is a slow slog through horrid ditches of the high mountain trail on Lanai in a little Jeep.

..the wife still wants to kill me for that little trip.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:34 | 3737829 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

You meant "S-class" I think.

Personally, I like to drive around Europe in an Alpha Romeo convertible (when the weather is nice).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:16 | 3737843 Manthong
Manthong's picture

yes.. my bad....     I have no "class"  I only own old cars.. but i rent new ones.

and i did a great zurich to monaco run on the autoroute in an Opel with an open roof a while back.

if only american idiots knew how to stay in the right lane when they are in a stupor (or on their cell phone) this would be a better and safer place.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 17:38 | 3739133 Seer
Seer's picture

Obviously, if someone could actually take their hand off the wheel the conditions couldn't be that bad.  Go to Manila and try traffic there.  People in Manila can't risk taking their hands off the wheel (horns are part of the wheel!): OK, I exaggerate slightly; it does, however, really feel like the old video arcade game Frogger adding in that the traffic would be acting as equally frantic as the frog!

Reminds me, though, of my first encounter with the Autobahn crowd.  I was entering Germany for my first time coming from Denmark on a ferry.  A line of cars in front (I wasn't driving, but I was in the passenger seat so I had a pretty good view of it all) exiting the ferry, and a line coming to it.  All of a sudden it was like a parting of the seas.  The traffic in both directions parted, keeping speed, shifting to the right (toward the shoulder), and then this car appears, streaking down the middle toward the ferry.  It was bizarre.  And, I wonder about the statement of it all, whether those that can afford to go the fastest get their way... I like "cooperation" and all, but this seemed a bit too "cooperative" to me.  Oh, and it wasn't an emergency vehicle!  Speaking of emergency vehicles, the cops over there sure get some pretty cool rides.

I'd take a Mercedes diesel, forget BMWs (though I now see BMW has entered into the diesel arena)!  And if I had my wish the Mercedes would be a... Unimog! (Dear Santa... must have 3-pt hitch, like this one: http://unimog.net/exchange/photos/130406-10.jpg)

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:31 | 3738647 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

Will the last one out please turn off the lights?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:46 | 3737325 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

It's all unravelling.... China is gasping for breathe...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:48 | 3737333 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

The biggest point is that with Monti gone and Berlusconi going to jail, the power vaccuum basically ensure this thing collapses or that a group gets control and bails on the euro.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:49 | 3737338 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Good post, but the author neglected to mention one of the most awful consequences of Italy's impending collapse: when property prices plummet, those of us furriners who will finally be able to afford a lovely home in Tuscany will be thwarted by new capital controls. 

Fuck.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:33 | 3737552 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Coming soon: Exit Visa for USSA serfs to leave the country.

You can only take $20 out of the country. You must turn in your CCs to TSA upon leaving, and give them your address so they can search your house while you are gone.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:05 | 3737718 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Accompanied by $2000 loaves of bread?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:51 | 3737349 youngman
youngman's picture

To open a business in Italy you need over 45 permits...and its not just like you fill out a form to get them....its a mess...to many government employees that all want a cut....they think they deserve a cut...and demand a cut.....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:21 | 3737485 CH1
CH1's picture

And don't forget the fucking financial police!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:44 | 3737862 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Sounds like North America, TBH.  Ok, we don't require 40 forms yet, but definitely over 10!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:52 | 3738476 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

In Rome it's illegal for a barber to cut a womans hair.

He needs to have a hairdresser's licence instead.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:53 | 3739370 Seer
Seer's picture

This is how POWER always ends up.  If it's not theft by gangster it's theft through govt.

A LOT is the result of having externalized/hid costs.  Growth is a great cloaking device... but now the water is receding and we're still peeing in the pool, and have no shorts on...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:52 | 3737354 pachanguero
pachanguero's picture

Wine and cheese for all!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:55 | 3737371 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Captain Francesco Shettino .... the life boat jumper .... poster boy for the Italian Navy .... is all the symbolism you need for Italian failure .... if the Falklands were Italian .... Argentina would have taken them !

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:59 | 3737388 Monedas
Monedas's picture

How do you now .... when your Fiat .... has a blow out .... on the Auto Strada .... Pop wop wop wop wop wop !

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:03 | 3737400 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

How do i know Italy is collapsing; 60% of brother-in-laws family is in Italy. Every 2nd/3rd/4th cousin, under 30 is trying to get to Canada, anyway they can. Again and again i hear the same thing, "no opportunity in Italy". These are educated kids, with no future in their home country. They also blame the Germans and the Euro for the current depression.

None of this ends well, but in the meantime #btfd

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:42 | 3737852 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

So who is married to the Italian - you or your sister? Yes, I know it's really none of my business... ;) 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:47 | 3737874 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The White middle class has been fleeing South Africa for... What?  20+ years.

But don't worry, work hard and you will get ahead in this life.  Or you might just make your boss really rich.

Smart kids, well educated.  Good work ethic.  Not wanted.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:13 | 3737450 dunce
dunce's picture

All roads lead to Rome, but what if you are looking for the path to prosperity?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:29 | 3739740 Seer
Seer's picture

"but what if you are looking for the path to prosperity?"

Attend a Tony Robbins or Robert Kiyosaki seminar. <yes, it's /sarc>

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:18 | 3737471 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

Thus there can never be any tapering.  It is all talk to move what is left of the market, but more importantly to move public perception that all is well, and all can be fixed with the right tinkering.

QE forever, or until it collapses, which ever comes first. 

I used to subscribe to a small newsletter called "The Hard Money Investor" and he gave me this advice clear back in '04.  "It will collapse, but I can't tell you when.  I am always surprised by the creative ways that Americans can come up with new ways to manipulate the system.  Don't underestimate how long they can keep it afloat."  And even now, after years of QE, time and again it looks bad, yet they pull a rabbit out of the hat and it just keeps going.  But it will require QE.  Tapering?  I'll believe it when I see it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:44 | 3739790 Seer
Seer's picture

And the logic IS sound.  The System has, and always has to be about growth.  We've run out of ways to give that appearance.  Demographics makes it clear that there is no new wave of young people who are able to carry the generations before them as had been done (but only in but a very brief moment if one looks at all of human history).

I theorize that the Fed is like the Star Trek Doomsday star(?) that was sucking everything up.  The Fed is going to become THE Bad Bank and then it implodes.  And if you really think hard about it it seems better that the Fed and not foreign interests are the last ones holding the bag of shit when it really goes stink.  And who cares if China gets stuck with a bunch of the shit?  Japan?  Well, they've been a US bitch for a long time and they'll just have to take it: and if they cry the US will pull back military forces from the area and Japan can see how well oil flows to them.

Meanwhile the USD is still showing as the best-looking horse at the glue factory.  Things will get stickier and stickier until there's little ability to shake hands (do deals) for fear of getting pulled into the glue-processing stream.  At some point there's no one judging the best-looking horse and the USD turns to glue...

There is certainty, and it's in the form of the phrase: That which cannot continue forever won't.  It's not productive to spend a lot of time and energy trying to guess "when;" better to concentrate on getting out of the glue factory.  Tip: stop betting on the horses.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:20 | 3737482 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Me own personal Italian memory : the gypsies are the very best pick pockets in the world !!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:37 | 3737838 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I lost my cellphone to a pickpocket on Rome's Metro.  There are very good pickpockets indeed in Italy (although I have no idea who it was who took it).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:56 | 3737863 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Had my pockets picked right on the Spanish Steps. Didn't even realize it right away.

Luckily I wasn't carrying my wallet, just a lot of cash.

Big party at the gypsy camp that night.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:23 | 3737490 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

mario draghi: "the crisis is behind us"

lowers interest rates a week later. hahahaha

the titanic is sinking. tick tock...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:27 | 3737506 1929agin
1929agin's picture

Italy,PIIGS,Japan,US etc.. all ecb controlled puppets in the "Ponzi Scheme"

 

Credit markets? Bonds/Yields , now that could be early sign...

 

Oil/ US $ Dollar relationships, Years 2007,2008 WTIC 110.50 and 86 US Dollar," Equities " shaken/stirred.. Just sayin....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:27 | 3737507 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Looks like they are still better off than Chalky's USSA.

The bolshevik-nazi revolution here has been very successful. We have 25% unemployment.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:35 | 3737562 balanced
balanced's picture

These things are meaningless in a centrally-controlled global financial system. It's of small account which countries run into problems. Adjustments will be made, and the status quo will be maintained while more freedom will be taken, and more value will be taken from the savings of averages citizens. This will continue until the day, the central planners lose control. Until that day, this is all noise.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:41 | 3737605 Max Damage
Max Damage's picture

Great Football, not soccer!!!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:49 | 3737889 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

INTER INTER INTER  (although not so much, the last two seasons)

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:50 | 3737643 daz
daz's picture

Italy has gold. Attack gold price!

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:52 | 3737650 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

Being italian myself but not living there all I can say about my fellow Italians is that they deserve every cut and slice. To hell with them all for being so corrupt, ignorant and lazy.

To hell with the lot of them, they have no interest in anything but riding scooters, watching football, pinching womens assess and talking bollocks all day long.

Not a single pair of balls in the enitre country. Let them sink, they deserve it. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:21 | 3737778 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Ditto the world.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:22 | 3737780 dvfco
dvfco's picture

Uhm, I'm American and I gave your post a +1. 

But, by how much do we differ from the Italians - really?  I think 10 years ago the differences were huge.  Today, we have more people on unemployment than Spain has citizens.  We have more people on food stamps than residents of California.  It's insane - and - obviously - as unsustainable here as it is there.  At least they know how to enjoy their lazy, leisurely lifestyles - most of the time.  We all get fat, stressed, etc.

A few differences between the US and Italy would be the following: (please excuse the extreme political incorrectness in advance):

1)  American men don't like to live with their moms through their forties.

2)  American men don't run home to their mom's when they have marriage problems.

3)  Only men in America have to shave regularly.

4)  I was told that Italian emigres are called "WOPS" because that's the sound shit makes when it hits the wall.  American emigres are chased by the NSA;

and finally, Italy is shaped like a boot because you can't fit all that shit in a sneaker.

I am of 100% Irish descent.  So, if you want to return the smart-ass comments with some Irish-bashing, bring it on.  It's all good and I have no malice in those jokes.

Oh yes, why do Italian men grow mustaches?  So they can look just like MAMA!

 

Vi auguro una splendida giornata e tutto il meglio. Continuare a sorridere.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:33 | 3737825 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

Have you or any American "Clean shaven, independant of their mothers" men assasinated Obama yet, No!!! Ok, I see.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:32 | 3738404 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Watcha outta for servicio segreto americano amico.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:23 | 3738613 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

They do not own this planet

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:48 | 3739803 Seer
Seer's picture

Ownership isn't the concern, Control is...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 02:27 | 3740588 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

Instead of scooters Americans - because they are so fucking fat and diabetes ridden - ride around on those fat machines that are reinforced with titanium to support 'up to 800lbs'

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:04 | 3737716 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

 

In Italy, the tragic stories of suicides apparently linked to the deep recession are becoming all too frequent. Last month, a former factory worker hanged himself near Turin because he could not find work, 

 

I JUST DON'T GET IT. IF YOU ARE AT THE END OF YOUR WITS, THEN WHY NOT TAKE OUT A FEW POLITICOS OR BANKSTERS, WHAT A WASTE OF A LIFE, SHAME!!!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:40 | 3737844 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Si, amico, capisco, cento por cento...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:52 | 3738206 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

mouse2, I have wondered about that too, particularly with respect to desperately oppressed countries like Tibet, where men set themselves aflame but do not take a few APRC with them.  I have no idea, and can only surmise that there is a conscience in men at that stage of desperation that keeps them from taking out those who might be innocent.  Just a thought.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:36 | 3738422 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

If they are bankers of politicos they are not innocent. Take them out with you

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:37 | 3738426 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The whole civilisation has committed demographic suicide already. It is baked in. Just like Greece but with a decade of delay perhaps. Look at their demographic profiles and behold. The place is like the godfather inverted. Zillions of oldsters and no bambini

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:49 | 3740200 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

Oddly, they could fix the demographic thing, without any special tools or intervention. It would take two decades, and require a huge dedication of time and resources from every Italian woman though... So, oh well.

Guess they'd be fucked either way.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:53 | 3739822 Seer
Seer's picture

I believe that this only feeds the fascist tendencies.  In the US when something happens to "authority" "authority" is given MOAR power.

As much as one might "feel" better about bitch-slapping those oppressing it's a much better return on energy to just remove your energy from them and their System.  As Buckminster Fuller put it, you can't change the existing system, better to create an alternate one and make the old one obsolete.  That is, quit signing up to be a club-member, create your own club in which they cannot, in any way, have a position of authority (I do not condone "authoritarian" structures).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:15 | 3737754 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Where capitalism was invented and where it will die.

Where christian church went universal and where it will return to be buried. 

Where Caesar was born and then assassinated. 

Where the first porn novel was written and the first Coliseum saw its sacrifices.

Imperial and decadent it has nine lives.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:15 | 3737755 conspicio
conspicio's picture

ALL HAIL NIGEL FARAGE.

 

Well, he was right after all...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:24 | 3737787 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

Farage is a fake, just a mouth piece so that the masses of fucking idiots in the UK believe that at least person in the establishment is on their side.

Fuck no!!! If you want change in the UK then don't VOTE for anyone.

The only side Farage is on is on his own side to fill his own pockets.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:40 | 3737846 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

What a queer thing to say.

Farage, if nothing else, has had the guts to stand up and talk the truth.

I would indeed vote for Farage and I just hope many others would too.

 

 

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:49 | 3737890 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

Not if he is a stooge.

Listen, in the next elections in the UK I will probably vote for UKIP for shits and giggles, throw the grenade in there and watch the shit storm

The  whole system is in such a mess that it needs a radical overhaul, we need to kick out the usual suspects, no more Conservatibve, no more Labour, Lib Dems ought to be outlawed for being too fucking stupid to be in any position of power.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:21 | 3737777 swedish etrade baby
swedish etrade baby's picture

VW bought Ducati! I guess they wanted to make motorcycles just like BMW

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:07 | 3738266 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

LVHM bot Loro Piana fur EUR 2 '000k 2 days ago.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:40 | 3737848 Monedas
Monedas's picture

I like the way the Italians are happy to show you their CB gold bullion .... why not .... it's such a reasonable proposition .... let the people see their gold .... we should be proud of it ?  

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:57 | 3737924 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

It's ass ass inated. For the record I ain't doing shit except flying my car and living until I'm 200.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:01 | 3737945 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

If a certain country was supposed to be holding gold for a certain European nation, but instead sold or lent that gold out, what do you think that certain nation would do when the European nation asked for some of their gold back? Would there be any incentive for that certain nation to squash gold prices?

That same certain nation is so far in debt that it faces only three choices - a European style austerity program (i.e. a self induced depression like Italy), a shocking overnight devaluation of their currency, or a sustained drop in their currency causing much higher inflation. Because of the many permits and regulations built into that certain nation's economy, there can be no hope of eventual recovery until there is a collapse, default, or rebellion that removes debt and the impediments that prevent its workers from being competitive in a global economy.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:58 | 3739834 Seer
Seer's picture

What if that certain nation had "pictures?"

With all the shit gobbled up with spying activities it's almost a certainty that we'll be seeing more and more leaks as all these countries try to make each other look bad.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:43 | 3738179 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Funny, how no one talks about (or remembers) all those Toxic Assets that Italy and other EU countries bought from GS.

The Squid sure is defining/framing the Argument:  DaR -- Deflect and Redirect.  Nice how they put their guys at the Top in EU banking.

 

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:58 | 3738224 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Toxic?

Shame on you. Why, those debt instruments were rated AAA by S&P.

As good as Goldman.

 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:15 | 3738293 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

" I know many Americans are afraid our economy could end up worse than the Italian economy, but as pResident, I must aim higher; I am hoping we can soon be on the level as Zimbabwe.

"I have also been watching the white hispanic trial, and I hope a certain segment of our population can also help us reach closer to Zimbabwe if the white hispanic gets acquitted or is even found guilty."

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:58 | 3738502 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Bunga bunga baby!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 16:42 | 3738934 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

shhItalia!
Energy? don talk me steenkin energy. the italia womans fuck wit plenny energies.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:23 | 3739263 Xando
Xando's picture

If Italy is indeed the ninth largest economy in the world, that's a testament to Italian fortitude. I looked at the Italian business environment, judged it toxic, and ran away screaming. This was before the 2008 meltdown, when times were supposedly good. The Italians and French seem to be masters to me, for making way under the burdens their states impose on them. But there's got to be some point where you just throw up your hands and walk away. I have great confidence the insane governments of these nations will find that point, and press it hard on the businessmen of their nations.

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