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Guest Post: 9 Plagues That Are Collapsing Capitalism

Tyler Durden's picture


Via Jim Quinn's Burning Platform blog (authored by Paul Rosenberg of FreemansPerspective blog),

Let me be blunt: Our capitalist system is approaching failure.

Or, perhaps better said: Our marginally capitalist, partly-free market systems are approaching a massive collapse.

Not because of what capitalism is, mind you, but because the powers that be have bastardized it.

Capitalism can bear many distortions and abuses, but it is not indestructible.

And, make no mistake, the ‘capitalist’ system we have today has been massively corrupted, so much so that it’s sagging under the load... and will continue to do so until the proverbial straw breaks its back.

The 9 Plagues

1. The average producer is being stripped bare. In the US, for example, the total take of taxes has not risen dramatically, but fewer and fewer people actually pay them. There was a big uproar during the last election cycle over the fact that 47% of working-aged Americans paid no income tax. That means that the half who do work (read suckers) are paying the whole. And more than that, they are also paying for the many millions who are on food stamps and disability. Producers are being punished and abused, made into chumps.


2. Thrift is essentially impossible. I’ve explained this in detail previously, but a hundred years ago, it was possible for an average person to accumulate money. Mechanics, carpenters, and shop owners slowly filled their bank accounts with gold and silver. It was common for them to make business loans and to retire comfortably. But now, all of our surplus is drained away to capital cities, where it is poured down the drains of welfare, warfare, and political lunacy. Money has been removed from the hands that made it, and moved into the hands of non-producers, liars, and destroyers.


3. In 2008, US federal government regulations cost an estimated $1.75 trillion, an amount equal to 14 percent of US national income. Let me restate: Simply complying with regulations costs American businesses more than $1,750,000,000,000 (that’s $1.75 Trillion) every year. This, again, is money taken out of production and wasted on political lunacy.


4. Small businesses are being squeezed out. Take a look at the two graphs below, and understand that as small businesses are squeezed out, only the large corporations remain. These days, only the largest and best-connected entities are able to get their concerns dealt with (by the politicians they fund). Small operations are cut off from the redress of their grievances and are crushed by taxes and regulation. And don’t forget the comments of Mussolini:


Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power.


While there may be no dictator, state/corporate partnerships are taking over commerce in the West.

Freeman's Perspective
Freeman's Perspective


5. The military industrial complex is out of control. Their lobbying, fear-mongering, and spending can only be characterized as obscene. Dwight Eisenhower was right when he warned us about this in 1960. It is sad beyond measure that so few Americans took him seriously. Trillions of dollars and millions of productive lives are being spent on the war machines of the West. Never forget that wars destroy massively and produce nothing.


6. All the Western nations now feature large enforcer classes, composed of bureaucrats, law enforcement units, inspectors, and so on. In the US alone this amounts to several million people – none of whom produce anything, and all of whom restrain producers from producing. Millions of people are paid to restrain commerce.


7. We now have a very large financial class in which blindly aggressive people make millions of dollars. The problem is that finance is not productive. It may allocate money in beneficial ways (though it often allocates mainly to itself), but it doesn’t actually produce anything. At present, the allocators get the big bucks, and the producers get scraps.


8. The modern business ethic has become about acquisition only. In more enlightened times, it was also about creating benefit in the world, or at least creating newer and better things. Mere grasping is an insufficient philosophy for capitalism; it leads to dark places.


9. Every nation on the planet is using play money and forcing their inhabitants to use their play money. Moreover, they have super-empowered a small class of Central Banking Elites, who make fortunes on their currency monopolies, and who are entirely unknown to the producers who unwillingly (and unknowingly) purchase jets and yachts for them. Our money systems have brought back aristocracies; a class that is both hidden and immensely powerful.


So What’s Next?

That’s up to the producers. Everything hinges upon them. The game, as it is, depends entirely on them being willing to accept abuse.

All that is necessary to fix this is for the producers to stop being willing victims. Simple, I know, but there is a problem with such a sensible idea:

The producers are convinced that their role in life is only to struggle and obey.

Modern producers believe that the ruling classes have a legitimate right to tell them how much of their money they are entitled to keep, which charity causes they’ll be forced to contribute to, which features their car is required to have, and much, much more. Why? Simply because those other people are in “high positions,” and they (the producers) are in “low positions.” An evil assumption has been planted in their minds:

It is right for important people to order me around.

The productive class holds all the real power, but they are nearly devoid of moral confidence. So, they are abused without end.

Right now, a parasitic ethic rules the West and will continue to rule so long as producers play the part of the suckers. If this continues, what remains of capitalism will grind to a halt and will be overrun by a Neo-Fascist arrangement – not the dictator and swastika variety – but one where the state and powerful business interests merge into one unstoppable and insatiable force.

On the other hand, if ever the producers wake up from their moral coma and reject the role of doormat, they will build a society embodying the ethics of production. It almost sounds impossible, I know. But it is has happened before and could happen again.

It’s up to us.


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Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:33 | 3739288 zorba THE GREEK
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So we will go back to a black market/barter system which will eventually morph back to capitalism. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:44 | 3739333 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

You see, the Greeks know, they have another economy besides the one the leaches control. Black markets are truly capitalist and they are springing up everywhere.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:59 | 3739394 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

All that is necessary to fix this is for the producers to stop being willing victims.

So, Ayn Rand was onto something it seems.  Wait for it.....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:40 | 3739953 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Or, perhaps better said: Our marginally capitalist, partly-free market systems are approaching a massive collapse.

Partly free-market? Is that like sort-of pregnant?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:27 | 3740316 markmotive
markmotive's picture

I am not so sure that at least a few of these 9 things have not always existed.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 02:38 | 3740596 Rubicon
Rubicon's picture

The Road to Serfdom

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 03:30 | 3740623 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I think the author is correct in his assessment of there being a "parasitic ethnic".

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:12 | 3740414 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Who is John Galt?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:32 | 3740766 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Indeed, who?  Should be all of us...time to end the machine of the world.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:02 | 3739404 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Black markets might be truly free (aside from occasional police raids) but they are not very capitalist.  In black markets, most participants work solo, and own their own means of production.  Black markets are pre-capitalist in a way.

Capitalism in any meaningful sense only arises when capital starts to be concentrated in the hands of a few, and most are forced to do wage labor to survive.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:49 | 3739609 CH1
CH1's picture

Capitalism is NOT about concentration. It's about free commerce.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:46 | 3739970 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Capitalism is NOT about concentration. It's about free commerce.

It's actually about both, when humans invent systems the systems don't necessarily make any sense. Free-market (similar to 'free commerce') is itself a paradox and is defined in a multitude of ways, but details details...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:39 | 3740154 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

To most people here, capitalism is just a holy word, with about as much meaning as om mani padme hum.

But you have a better discussion if words actually have meaning.  Socialism means that the means of production are collectively owned.  Capitalism means that the means of production are privately owned.  That is what the words mean.

When capitalism is embraced as an organizing principle, capital will always begin to concentrate, and some people will have none.  Those with none will be required to work for wages to survive.  The concentration of capital will always increase, and at some point, owners of capital will have the resources to buy off the government and do down all opposing institutions, which results in accelerating concentration, which results in rampant corruption and inefficiency, which results in collapse.  That cycle is not what might happen or what could happen, but what always happens.  Europe is already on its second cycle.

Of course, socialism (except in rare and very limited circumstances) also blows up.  The really interesting finding of our time is that both mass social systems invented in the 19th century, those two great -isms pitted against each other in the cold war, are both inherently unstable.  It's silly to miss that because you are too busy with religious chants.

There was a brief period at the end of the cold war, when Francis Fukayama declared the end of history, when it seemed that lightly regulated capitalism was an optimal, stable system.  (That was definitely not laissez faire, free-market capitalism; Glass Steagall was still in force and private capital was subject to many regulations.)  But the period was brief.  It could not stand the onslaught of Lee Atwater, Roger Ailes, Newt Gingrich, the Koch brothers, Alan Greenspan, Larry Summers, Robert Rubin, Jon Corzine, John Roberts, et al.  Now capitalism is back to running its inevitable course toward collapse.  It's not me who says that; the coming collapse is orthodox in the Zero Hedge comments section, no?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:03 | 3739659 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Your first paragraph defines capitalism in it's purest form, the way it works best.  

Your second paragraph recounts the way socialists and communists view capitalism, the way it has been bastardized - mostly by the LEft itself.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 02:21 | 3740565 scrappy
scrappy's picture

It has never been tried this way.

How do we divide the fruits of our labor?

Maybe beyond left and right?

A way to avoid civil strife and worse?

Henry George and The Reconstruction Of Capitalism

Marx hated it and so did the oligarchs.

Just might be part of the answer then.

At least some of todays gen are starting to get it. Thank God.

Wise Elders like Professor Mason Gafney have the best transitional Geoeconomic solutions we could really implement incrementally .

His take on the reason why this has occurred.


The Professors website and extensive papers.







Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:08 | 3740040 Chuck Walla
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 When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; when you see that men get rich more easily by graft than by work, and your laws no longer protect you against them, but protect them against you … you may know that your society is doomed. 

~ Ayn Rand


Thu, 07/11/2013 - 07:08 | 3740726 Burticus
Burticus's picture

"Black" market = (gubbermint-) Free market

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:05 | 3739420 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

More of us are withdrawing from the system every day, in our own ways, on our own schedule.

Great piece, except that we do have a Dictator.   Look at Barry's executive orders, including the one hiding his past.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:58 | 3740382 thestarl
thestarl's picture


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:03 | 3739405 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

It is already happening. The black market is estimated to be about 9% of the economy in the USA and about 12% in Europe and growing! As the cost of complying with all the regulations increases and taxes are increased at all levels of government, the black market will grow accordingly. Rather than take to the streets, people find a way to avoid the regulations and the taxes that they deem to be unfair.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:23 | 3739506 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

The black market will be the largest market in the world by 2020 with good reason. Fascists are destroying capitalism. 

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 16:07 | 3742635 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Some experts believe that if it had not been for their black market and gray market, the Soviet Union economy would have collapsed 30 or 40 years sooner. Many parts of the economy did not work at all but the system kept creaking along thanks to workarounds, under the table deals and ad hoc fixes the beaurocrats turned a blind eye to, or did not know existed.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:35 | 3739763 game theory
game theory's picture

The US gov't appears to estimate how much economic activity is done outside of the reach of taxation and they run excess deficits as they receive less in taxes. Even if the black market became 100% of all activity, the gov't would simply run a massive deficit rather than shutting down.  Greece tried this last strategy and failed.  But the US gov't cannot be stopped via "financial revolt" they enjoy pensions and benefits, and sprinkle around some bonuses for the IRS, and some nice jobs at Goldman Sachs for the SEC people...etc. Try to expose any fraud in the US gov't and you may find your car booby-trapped. 

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 10:19 | 3741306 fallout11
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Well said. Taxation of the "official" (non black market) economy is not even necessary, as Thomas Jefferson noted that inflation (in this case government-created inflation) is in fact a "hidden tax", one that affects all those who must use the currency for financial transactions, both black market and "official" economy alike. In effect, they can tax the black market even if it becomes 100% of economic activity via this hidden tax, inflation (currency debasement).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:33 | 3739291 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Peak Oil will destroy many cherished notions about capitalism....

Moreover, capitalism is by definition doomed to devour its young, and when you run out of young...

Anyway, you get the idea...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:35 | 3739299 maskone909
maskone909's picture

you mean corporatism

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:46 | 3739338 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Where has Calamitous Climate Change gone ?

Surely we will all suddenly fail to adapt to a couple of degrees temperature variation?

Why the sudden unlinking of the two?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:37 | 3739564 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I'm sorry, did I hear a little pipsqueak making noise?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:22 | 3739718 ClassicalLib17
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Hey flakmeister,  I'm guessing you have the obligatory ponytail, facial hair, round eye glasses, you wear a bike helmet when you ride, and you are now retired from your "profession",  which is what again?  You're such a fucking asshole.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:29 | 3739742 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Not even showing a hint of any ability to have a fact based scientific discussion of AGW...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:19 | 3740426 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Says the one presenting no facts on Capitalism eating itself and calling others pipsqueak.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:31 | 3740942 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Exihibit A: Labor participation rate

Exhibit B: GINI Ratio

Exhibit C: Distribution of Income Gains since 1970

Now run along....

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 04:05 | 3740640 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

You have the memory of a butterfly

Very colorful, flitting here and there, and totally gone in two days.


Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:33 | 3740946 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

How Zen of you, do you have anything of substance to add?

PS Whether you like it or not, I am one of the "senior statesmen" of the ZH boards...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 19:48 | 3743344 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Ok now I know you are joking


Thu, 07/11/2013 - 16:15 | 3742658 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

"Where has Calamitous Climate Change gone ?"


Same place as Peak Oil, Acid Rain, the Red Menace, the Yellow Peril, Killer Bees and a million other calamities. They are "no longer operative" in the phrase made famous by Nixon's White House Press Secretary Ron Zeigler.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:47 | 3739345 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You have a very poor understanding of capitalism.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:59 | 3739388 Apeman
Apeman's picture

Perhaps he does, but I feel like there are many people who have blind faith in capitalism without understanding a rats ass about it. These people also oppose every other system without knowing a damn thing about those as well.

Capitalism is unlikely to be the "best" system. Every single one of us is simply too dumb to figure out what the best system is. I hate capitalism fanboys so incredibly much. I'm not talking about you btw... just in case...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:38 | 3739434 prains
prains's picture

every system'ism' has a common denominator, personal self interest, as this self interest grows in both power and finance this self interest manifests itself in Oligarchical form. It doesn't matter the banner, the ism, the ist, you want to wave, it all becomes Oligarchical control.


Why waste your time trying to stick a feret in a tube and wrestle with which "system" is going to insert the tube in your ass. It's still the Oligarch doing the pushing.




Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:40 | 3739572 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There is no "ism" that will ever work. There is only fascism. All systems are corrupted and driven by greed and will morph into a fascist state.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:43 | 3739586 prains
prains's picture



there will always be Applebee's

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:43 | 3739590 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Capitalism has evolved to the point where it no longer serves the useful function it once did...

And a fool who can only express ideologically pure ideas only displays their complete naivite about the human condition...

Even Adam Smith knew that a free market without regulation was chimerical....

If someone wants to have a serious discussion devoid of empty platitudes, I may join in. In the meantime I will simply monitor the circlejerk....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:08 | 3739676 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Gee, that's white of you.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:31 | 3739749 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

...and lame of you.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:40 | 3739956 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ok, is not capitalism an expression (in its essence) of the law of the jungle...where the strong survive and the weak adapt or perish?

In an economic/fiscal/financial sense, isn't that a preferable opposed to propping up chia pet and buggy whip manufactuers for untold future generations to bear the burden of subsidy for?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:02 | 3740023 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

In a world without frontiers or limits, that might be case....

Call me when we find one...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:27 | 3740408 Element
Element's picture

Flak, you want a political and policy renaissance (backed by state police force, of course, as you can't have one without the other) but that wondrous new-age, that great-sage-like turning point, it just isn't coming.

What humans are going to do though, is what we can do, and do most easily and economically, via trade, and the failure to trade economically. And that will sort itself out, without any further oversight - guaranteed. It's just not how your extreme-ideology desires (and yes bud, you are an extreme ideological puritan).

I don't mind if you think you could do it better, the fact is you can't. A 20-something mother with a child is never going to listen to what you demand they do, nor listen to what you say about how they should live. But they are going to do what they can do, and what they definitely can do is more of the same, with variations on the theme. You have no answers for them and you would be far worse for humanity than Joe-Stalin, if you could ever get your hands on any real policy or physical power of the statist meat-grinder you day-dream about.

Mentally-adjust, and get over it.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:13 | 3740894 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Now there you go putting words in other peoples mouths...

My only agenda is to have a fact based discussions about AGW at Hedge. If an observed phenomena is anathema to your cherished ideals for the political-economy, maybe it is telling you that your ideology is lacking in some respect....

Denying science because it does not fit your world view is the height of narcissism...

Just sayin'...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 19:21 | 3743270 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I don't see where Element broached the subject of "man-made global warming".

And a large part of the problem is we now have "political-economies" across the globe...politicians meddling in the economy and those politicians are invariably not real capitalists.

I've yet to find a true capitalist who gets in a bind and goes running to for a bailout.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:21 | 3740432 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Capitalism economizes. Corrupted money devours.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:23 | 3739907 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

What if I showed up on your doorstep with a rainbow colored clown wig on and a long white sock on my dick and nothing else and rang your doorbell 5 times. Would you invite me in for tea and a discussion of The Patriarchy of the Capitalistic Notions of a Modern Society ?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:40 | 3739957 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Content free, but I do admire the effort...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:03 | 3740025 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Your posts are completely worthless because of gross inaccuracies in your use of words. 

Equating free market capitalism with government created crony-capitalism is either deceitful or sloppy.

I suggest deceitful.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:16 | 3740048 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yep, and one is all but doomed to morph into the other...

And as if one even existed in the first place. Have you actually read any economic history? It would appear not...

Edit: Why is that last time I recall arguments based on pure ideology without recourse to history was when I reading about the early Bolsheviks and the history of the Russian Revolution....

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 09:18 | 3741100 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

Capitalism, Christianity, and the Constitution, the three legs of the stool which made America `Great`,  Capitalism and Christianity are, and always have been, what you think they are, many folks are fervent believers in many, mutually exclusive, shades of meaning, and practical practice of these important philosophies, The Constitution, being written down, was `Carved in Stone` so to speak, and provided an `Unchanging` standard, by which to judge the changes and innovations in society's practices.

Now with the Constitution it'self subject to radical new interpertation, there is no standard by which to judge, the enevitable, change all dynamic systems exhibit, the forces with the most power, within the system, can didtate what is Constitutional and what is not! How this plays out,,, well watch and see!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:33 | 3740335 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

The content would be in the sock not the babbling waste of air discussion over tea.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:50 | 3739981 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I'm well aware of the 'human condition'. That's why I'm for panarchism. Freedom to succeed or fail based on individual choices, not choices enforced by the collective. 

Just as it should be.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:04 | 3740030 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Good, I hope you find your subsistence level agrarian society one day...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 10:24 | 3741333 fallout11
fallout11's picture

The is always Somalia for those intent on true anarchocapitalism. 

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 13:53 | 3748466 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

What do you know for a fact about Somalia?

And what would the result be of America being founded in 1789 with a government like the current one?


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:02 | 3740020 Spigot
Spigot's picture

Exactly, Herr Dr. What we have in the world today is NOT capitalism simply because there really is no capital to speak of, just rehypothecated debt. Second, markets are not free to discover anything. It is a sham economic village run by a Dictat regime, pure and simple.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:52 | 3739366 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Capitalism of the sort that half-existed in (some of) Europe and the US prior to the 20th century, has no chance whatsoever in an energy-scarce no-growth environment. On the bright side, neither do fascism, communism, socialism, or democracy. There's always a silver lining.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:49 | 3739611 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

OK, Silverism then. I'm in already.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:22 | 3739501 Meremortal
Meremortal's picture

Peal Oil? You are way behind the information curve. Malthus was wrong and so are the Peak Oil alarmists.

The Oil Drum Blog is gone, by the way. Out of business. Not there any more. Doesn't exist. History, just like Peak Oil.

Viable alternative energy will be available long before oil supplies become a problem.

Find something real to worry about, there's plenty of real problems out there.



Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:55 | 3739634 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Yep, sure thing... Rationalize it any way you want....

TOD is closing shop because almost all of the major contributors springboarded from it to form their own gigs....

Well, if oil supplies are not a problem, why are we performing the equivalent of scraping a hash pipe?

Agreed, there are lots of problems out there, I for one thought the plateau of oil production would be shorter that it has turned out and that AGW was therefore a self-solving issue. Turns out I was wrong, AGW will bite our ass very hard and sooner....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:46 | 3739800 samsara
samsara's picture

Gail the Actuary has her own site, Oil Drum Canada turned into AutomaticEarth(great site btw).

Yes the rest have done quite well too.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:59 | 3740010 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Don't forget Robert Rapier, gregor(who contributes here no less), Nate Hagens among numerous others...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:49 | 3739810 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Well, if oil supplies are not a problem, why are we performing the equivalent of scraping a hash pipe?

+5 this is a good metaphor


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:39 | 3739570 samsara
samsara's picture

No Flak they don't. You and I (and nearly every geologist and petrochemical scientist) understands that world wide oil production peaked in 2005, and that by 2030 we will only be pumping 60% of what we did in 2005, but why ruin the suprise for the rest.

The oil price stability recently around $100 a barrel is because consumption is falling at the same rate as depletion.

Like I said, don't ruin the suprise for them. A tough sell to business majors for sure... But any of the hard science majors here agree with you.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:01 | 3739656 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Here is an earlier reply to a post of yours that you may have missed;

We are currently on the plateau. Once you correct for net Joules (or BTUs) total energy from liquids has been flat for 8 years despite slight volumetric increases.

The decline in US demand is because a component of the BRICs are now capable of outbidding the lowerend Americans...Hey, ~300 million people have recently become middle-class by US standards...

The world will roll over first in net BTUs from liquids, followed soon after by volume. What the inflationistas here don't factor in is that increased energy prices produce powerful deflationary forces in the economy as productive capacity exceeds the ability to service the cost of consumption. Real economic output shrinks in a environment where inflation is seen primarily is the energy/food sector while outright deflation can exist in other sectors of the economy...

The determining factor in the price of oil will be whether global production decline rates are greater than the drop in demand. We both understand that we will burn as fast as we can possibly produce short of some cataclysmic event changing the dynamic....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:21 | 3739699 samsara
samsara's picture

Couldn't have said it better.

I especially like this part.

"The determining factor in the price of oil will be whether global production decline rates are greater than the drop in demand"

It's a sad but true race between the two to the bottom.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:33 | 3740451 Element
Element's picture

95% of the people driving down the street today don't need to be driving down the street, they do so because it's economically viable to be massively profligate and entirely wasteful. That is indeed the very nature of the current culture.

When that changes it will not be the end of the world, sorry, it will be very far from it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:41 | 3739576 orez65
orez65's picture

"... capitalism is by definition doomed to devour its young ..."

Capitalism: Consume less than you produce and invest the savings then sell your services or products in a free market.

That will devour the young??!!

You are confusing capitalism with mercantilism.

Mercantilism: Private individuals use the power of the state to enrich themselves.

For example, the bankers.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:06 | 3739666 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Let's see, where does closing a factory here to exploit wage arbitrage elsewhere resulting in small fraction  of the old and new workers being able to afford the product of their labors fit in?

Globalization is a euphemism for what is occuring....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:50 | 3739615 Bennie Noakes
Bennie Noakes's picture

Why do we need oil? We can power the world just using Flakmeister's hot air.

Which incidentally is the true cause of global warming ...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:27 | 3739670 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

How drole...

Don't stop now, you are on a roll...

Edit: I should have added that any AGW discussion here is reduced to crap like the above...

Science works bitchez, even when you don't like the answer....

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:49 | 3739807 Help Is Not Coming
Help Is Not Coming's picture

Science even works when you create fraudulent data to justify your theory. It's just that in that case it works against you.

And if decreasing CO2 levels were really important we should immediately start bombing all of the active volcanoes that are spewing more CO2 into the air in one day than all the cars in the world do all year. Or maybe work on inventing one of those cold fusion Star Trek bombs like in the movie.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:51 | 3739983 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Just as I expected, long on made up stuff, short on real facts...

What fraudulent data? What was faked? Where is the evidence?

If it was faked, why can't the Kochs spend the money to set shit straight? Oh, they did try that:

The annual and decadal land surface temperature from the BerkeleyEarth average, compared to a linear combination of volcanic sulfate emissions and the natural logarithm of CO2. It is observed that the large negative excursions in the early temperature records are likely to be explained by exceptional volcanic activity at this time. Similarly, the upward trend is likely to be an indication of anthropogenic changes. The grey area is the 95% confidence interval.

 That is about as soft you can pedal a conclusion and still project a modicum of scientific integrity. Remember, the Koch's basically paid for the study...  Oooops...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:28 | 3740101 Help Is Not Coming
Help Is Not Coming's picture

It has been my experience that people get angry when you start questioning their beliefs. Obviously, AGW is a belief dear to your heart judging from your emotional response.

Is your comment about made up stuff referring to the data manipulated by Professor Phil Jones, who was director of the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and a professor of environmental sciences at the University of East Anglia in Norwich?

From the Guardian:

A Guardian investigation of thousands of emails and documents apparently hacked from the University of East Anglia's climatic research unit has found evidence that a series of measurements from Chinese weather stations were seriously flawed and that documents relating to them could not be produced.

So if you could present to me some peer reviewed research that is not based on manipulated data I would be happy to take a look at the research and reconsider my position. So far I haven't seen anything to disuade me from the idea that AGW is just a political means to swindle lots of money from the developed countries and transfer that wealth to the lesser developed.

I am also of the opinion that AGW has taken on the role of a religion of sorts and that those who are disbelievers are considered 'heretics'. I guess that makes me a AGW heretic.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:02 | 3740176 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Good god, Climategate?  Really? A three year old clipping from a newspaper...

Could you link the followup? Man, the Koch's must have got their best and brightest digging up the dirt on this lead...

Is this really the best you can do?

I like this one, a 2000 year climate history which recently came out that makes the Hockey Stick a Hockey League, from Real Climate

In a major step forward in proxy data synthesis, the PAst Global Changes (PAGES) 2k Consortium has just published a suite of continental scale reconstructions of temperature for the past two millennia in Nature Geoscience. More information about the study and its implications are available at the FAQ on the PAGES website and the datasets themselves are available at NOAA Paleoclimate.

Here is the short free version with a pretty picture:

And don't waste your time replying unless you have something of substance...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:07 | 3740398 NeedtoSecede
NeedtoSecede's picture

"Good Scientists and Believers in the Holy Church of AGW, Let us pray!"

"In the name of the The Government-funded Scientest, The Government-funded Satellite, and the Government-funded Computer Model we pray that all of us smarter-er people have long and profitable careers making shit up so we can scare the sheeple and buy off the politicians.  And we pray that the good politicians will continue to pass laws that force the productive parts of society pay more taxes to fund more "research" that will allow us to scare more sheeple.  In the name of moar government funding we pray. Amen."

Government fucks up everything it touches. End of fucking story, shut the fuck up already.  I am a greeny and I am tired of listening to you miserable cunts.  Fuck me, what a waste of fucking time...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:13 | 3740416 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

More content free claptrap....

It's alright though, we know you're upset, just take it elsewhere, like, say, Yahoo!

Some of us prefer fact based discussions....

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 00:50 | 3740479 Element
Element's picture



"Earth, calling flak, Earth calling flak, ... hey buddy, ... yeah you, ... look buster, I've been on a long-term cooling trend for about 20 million years now, especially the past 15 million years, and particularly the past 5 million years, and especially within the past 2 million years .... brrr ... it's been gettin' really cold at my extremities ... are we getting the picture yet? ... the cooling trend has been intensifying sweet-pea ... because the fundamental large-scale features and aspects of me, Earth, have intensified this observed very long-term cooling trend ... and I change my features veeery, veeeerrrrryy slooooowwwly ... so, would you like, ... you know, ... get a fucking clue and do something useful with your very messed-up scone - thanks?"

love, the Earth.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 08:51 | 3740929 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

We have taken care of that cooling trend, in fact, we wont have to worry about another Ice Age for at least 400,000 years given the C02 that is already there, i.e. longer than H. Sapiens has been around...

For example see:

And the fact that H. Sapiens would like likely not have evolved if the such a cooling trend was not in place hasn't dawned on you... 

Hey, what's another mass extinction even if it is anthropogenically initiated, the Earth abides...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 09:47 | 3741185 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

Flak, everything which happens on Earth is an act of nature, people are an act of nature, and as they follow their instincts and progress from the Cave to the Grave they are following the program as laid down by nature. Humans had no idea they would arrive here, even Fifty years ago many people believed the resources of the World where limitless, and they could quote the Bible as their authority, it was hard to challenge the authority of the Bible fifty years ago.

Things change all the time, the correct response to change is not necessarily to expend your capital, mental and physical, trying to preserve the past, but to observe the change and adjust your behavior accordingly, if the climate is changing, and from the short time I have personally observed it, it seems it is, we will have to adjust for that reality, no government programs, or pronouncements from heads of government, will have any effect on what is going to happen, I believe, for what that is worth, that if every human died tonight at midnight, the World wouldn't even notice and would just keep on changing, just like it always has.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 10:46 | 3741447 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The world changes in reponse to physical forcings, it ain't random and it ain't magic...

Now if you are arguing that we should just take it all in stride and watch our intellectual and cultural achievements of the past 10,000 years vanish in a comparatively speaking puff of smoke, I will beg to disagree. As for myself, I will not go down without a fight. As for the status quo, it is very clear that it has outlived its viability and that we had better come up with a new value system or extinction awaits us...

I for one, had some hope for the species, but, it appears that hope was misguided. Maybe we are merely demonstrating the solution to the Fermi Paradox....

Finally, you are incorrect, the Earth would notice in the sense that the changes being driven by human activity would stop and a new slowly varying equilibrium would emerge...

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 12:15 | 3741780 Sparkey
Sparkey's picture

Thank you for your reply Flakmeister, I don't really disagree with anything you've said, I mean; I don't think you are totaly wrong, except, perhaps, in your nuances.

"Now if you are arguing that we should just take it all in stride and watch our intellectual and cultural achievements of the past 10,000 years vanish in a comparatively speaking puff of smoke, I will beg to disagree. As for myself, I will not go down without a fight."

Taking it, (the coming changes) in stride, is the only realistic thing to do in the face of  inevitability, the changes we make should not be a futile attempt to change things back to the way we think they should be, but a recognition of reality, how can we continue to live reasonably sophisticated, and satisfying lives in the dawning new reality, that is a Big challenge, a challenge, I fear, we are inadequate to prevail against.

"Finally, you are incorrect, the Earth would notice in the sense that the changes being driven by human activity would stop and a new slowly varying equilibrium would emerge..."

Human activity is Natural activity, we Humans manifest nature, just like all the other, `Living` things do. Instinct rules nature including Humans, many people have a problem with this, they want to imagine themselves as some how superior to everything else alive, many believe the Bible says that, it takes a lot of energy to be superior in a World where all living things die and, we, as men know we are mortal too.

Equilibriums vary slowly until they vary rapidly, the volcano explodes, the meteor strikes the Earth, the humans have all out Atomic war, then things slow down for a while and life, guided by instinct, goes about it's assigned task of spreading it's self accross the Globe, the last itteration of this will be when the Sun expands unough to consume the living World, will this be the end of life in the universe? I doubt it, but it will be the end of life here on Earth!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 05:56 | 3744325 Element
Element's picture

Spot-on sparkey ... that GPS constellation up there, totally natural, so is the new plutonium-powered mars rover, and my GSX-R750.

Like you said about the bible 50 years ago, we are in a time, now, where so many people still can't face where we are, and what we are, and how viable, tenacious and infinitely flexible life really is, and how fragile, minor and transient we are.

They want to single-out humanity for special-treatment, isolate us and cut us off from the context of our existence, and accuse us of the sin of anthropogenisisisisiis (can never spell that lol) ... so they can politically manipulate and castigate ... blah blah

But here's an entirely new word I swear I've only now just made-up, so this is a fairly special moment, I occasionally come out with one of these, the definition is fairly self-explanatory;





Fri, 07/12/2013 - 05:34 | 3744311 Element
Element's picture

gawd flak you make me laugh sometimes.

"... in fact, we wont have to worry about another Ice Age for at least 400,000 years given the C02 that is already there, i.e. longer than H. Sapiens has been around..."

Well that's great news! 'cause I was sooooo effing worried about what is going to happen in 400k years! ... you have no idea man! I was just freakin-right-out about that!

"... the fact that H. Sapiens would like likely not have evolved if the such a cooling trend was not in place hasn't dawned on you... "

Well, um, yeah, like pretty much everyone realizes that, but as I've told you I truly don't give a fuck, something else would have come along and possibly something far more worthwhile I expect.

And am I really supposed to 'worry' and reference my imparted pseudo-'guilt' about all that edifice of utter bullshit, just because your head is full of a fucking truckload of AGW bad-wiring?

Seriously flak, you're a bloody nit-wit!

I can hardly believe you think all that shit you spew is anything meaningful. When's your "Boring Dork of 1986 Convention", being held again? ... and do they remember who you are still?

lol seriously though man, you need a hobby, I recommend nitro drag-racing ... or hippo hunting ... u know ... like ... whatever

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:34 | 3739295 BeagleOne
BeagleOne's picture

What a piece of sh**t article.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:34 | 3739296 maskone909
maskone909's picture

gubment came and took muh baybay

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:46 | 3739342 EARLPEARL
EARLPEARL's picture

your baby was 10 years old and weighed 21 pounds

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:51 | 3739619 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Still breastfeeding as well.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:35 | 3739298 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Gold and Peru.....................!!!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:43 | 3739329 Hengist
Hengist's picture

Worked for Francisco Pizzaro.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:43 | 3739304 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Capitalism never really existed. If it had the ultimate regulator of free markets, bankruptcy, would have taken down a lot of poorly operated businesses and misallocated capital. Instead we have a system that rewards the incompetent and punishes the prudent.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:41 | 3739306 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

10. Fascism.


Hate to be so repetitive but:

It's a Criminal system, built by Crinimals for Criminals. The business of America used to be business. Now the businesses of Amerika are war, theft, mass murder, and police state crackdown on anyone who objects.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:39 | 3739308 The Invisible Foot
The Invisible Foot's picture

One word Technology.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:39 | 3739311 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

nice speech but no substance

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:43 | 3739316 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

5. $2B/year for keeping our US Armed Mercenaries in air-conditioned comfort in Afgan and Iraq and 200 golf courses maintained exclusively for the  use of same overseas mercenary officers is not a fruitful use of taxpayer $?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:42 | 3739320 decentralizedsc...
decentralizedscutinizer's picture


When you put it that way, the solution is obvious:

28th Amendment (The Constitutional Emergency Amendment)

    Corporations are not persons and shall be granted only those rights and privileges that Congress deems necessary for the well-being of the People. Congress shall provide legislation defining the terms and conditions of corporate charters according to their purpose; which shall include, but are not limited to:
    1, prohibitions against any corporation;
    a, owning another corporation,
    b, becoming economically indispensable or monopolistic, or
    c, otherwise distorting the general economy;
    2, prohibitions against any form of intervention in the affairs of government by means of;
    a, congressional lobbying
    b, electoral sponsorship or advocacy
    c, educational sponsorship or publication
    d, media news reporting
    3, provisions for;
    a, the auditing of standardized, current, and transparent account books
    b, closing the FRB and the establishment of state-owned banks
    c, civil and criminal penalties to be suffered by corporate executives et al for violation of the terms of a corporate charter.

Optional: (or possible 29th amendment)

    The 16th Amendment to the United States Constitution is hereby repealed and Congress shall re-write the U.S. Code to reflect the changes embodied herein.

    (While we're at it, we could also repeal the 17th amendment)

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:46 | 3739339 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Nah, it's completed fucked and you're wasting your time because it's just a piece of paper anyway.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:48 | 3739349 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

Corporations should not be allowed to shield owners' wealth from liabilities. In fact, corporations need to go! Why do we need corporations?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:07 | 3739430 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

We need corporations to protect our personal assets from the vulcher lawyers in this lawsuit crazy country. If you can get rid of the lawyers then you can get rid of the corporations.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:28 | 3739530 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

". . . Corporations are not persons . . ."

Of course not; corporations are groups of people, not persons.  'Just like unions.

Consequently, due to the document called the US Constitution which is allegedly still the highest law of the land, groups of persons have virtually the same rights as individual persons, since they are nothing but a larger group of people.

But, I would vote for repealing the 16th and 17th Amendments.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:29 | 3740106 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"groups of persons have virtually the same rights as individual persons".

Since you can have people without groups but not groups without people, the primacy is with the individual. Since an individual doesn't have a right to tax, groups don't either. Same for forming a government.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:00 | 3740238 Monedas
Monedas's picture

"A corporation .... is just a partnership .... that got so big .... they had to pass out numbers !"  ....    Monedas    1929     Comedy Jihad World Tour      copyright pending my attorney's release from jail

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:50 | 3739616 orez65
orez65's picture

Dear "decentrilizedsc ...":

No ammendment is going to fix the bankers fraud nor mercantilism.

The root cause of our financial problems is "fiat money".

1. Abolish the Federal Reserve.

2. Outlaw "fractional reserve banking", on the penalty of death.

3. Let moneys compete in the market place. Grisham's law will show that only gold and silver will survive as money.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:32 | 3739757 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Fractional reserve wouldn't be a problem if we weren't forced to use the dollar for taxes and legal tender laws.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:18 | 3739887 medium giraffe
medium giraffe's picture

...except that FRB allows banking institutions to exist in a state of perpetual hypothetical insolvency predicated on the absurd notion that the bank will never suffer a crisis of confidence. A most appallingly presumptuous gamble.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:54 | 3739632 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Why amend something our rulers ignore ?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:58 | 3739833 Help Is Not Coming
Help Is Not Coming's picture

Re: Corporations as people. I find it fascinating that Jonathan Swift had it figured out oh so long ago. In Gulliver's Travels he wrote about the Struldbrug who are born seemingly normal but are in fact immortal kinda like corprations. From the wikipedia entry:

Struldbrugs were forbidden to own property:

As soon as they have completed the term of eighty years, they are looked on as dead in law; their heirs immediately succeed to their estates; only a small pittance is reserved for their support; and the poor ones are maintained at the public charge. After that period, they are held incapable of any employment of trust or profit; they cannot purchase lands, or take leases; neither are they allowed to be witnesses in any cause, either civil or criminal, not even for the decision of meers (metes) and bounds.


Otherwise, as avarice is the necessary consequence of old age, those immortals would in time become proprietors of the whole nation, and engross the civil power, which, for want of abilities to manage, must end in the ruin of the public.


So I agree with Johnathan Swift, corporations can be people as long as they can't own any property.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:43 | 3739328 Mr. Hudson
Mr. Hudson's picture

When and where has capitalism actually worked and survived? It seems to be too easily corrupted.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:52 | 3739363 Monedas
Monedas's picture

So .... if someone loans you some money .... you start a business .... and your business kills people .... the guy that loaned you the money for your failed entrprise is liable ?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:01 | 3739438 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

Capitalism worked great for the first portion of the history of the US when we transitioned from being a back-water third-world nation to probably the most powerful and prosperous country on the planet -- even for poor people in the US.  That was due to the US being more capitalist than the rest of the world (decently WELL-regulated, not MUCH-regulated).  Bigger government = more spending = more corruption; by definition.

But, success breeds complacency, and nothing seems to empower the corrupt like ignorance, which almost has to be the result of complacency.  Plus the powerful and corrupt certainly appear to be creating at least some degree of ignorance by design in the government indoctrination centers otherwise known as the public school system.

I support returning control of the public schools to the county government level so they will be more responsive to the local needs of the students and parents, but don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:31 | 3739926 Seer
Seer's picture

"Capitalism worked great for the first portion of the history of the US when we transitioned from being a back-water third-world nation to probably the most powerful and prosperous country on the planet -- even for poor people in the US."


It had NOTHING to do with the FACT that there was an abundance of virgin resources available for exploitation?  Fucking oil was found bubbling out of the ground and now we have to poke miles offshore under the ocean floor, spending massive amounts of money, to pump the shit out.  Al that effort and energy is effort and energy that doesn't go elsewhere.  I'd suggest that people ought to at least consider this (reality) as part of the reason why they're seeing/feeling a pinch.

Wikipedia's page History of Capitalism doesn't seem to put the US (or early America) in the thick of things ( though I did find this a bit interesting:

President Andrew Jackson's hostility to the Bank of the United States was perhaps the central issue of the election campaign of 1832. The following year, the Bank of the United States ceased to receive public funds.

There were several results of this action—one was an increase in the importance of the London banks to the U.S. economy, and another was an expansion of the state banking systems, amongst which the federal treasury was now splitting its deposits.

The U.S. government also sold huge amounts of public land in Jackson's second term, lands acquired at the cost of dispossessing their inhabitants. It deposited the proceeds from these sales in its "pet" state banks. As the money supply expanded, asset prices rose, increasing the appetite of Europe's investors, creating a bubble. Between 1830 and 1837, the US trade deficit was $140 million.

By 1839 this bubble burst. The Union Bank of Mississippi collapsed. As credit conditions worsened, American states that had borrowed from London banks proved unwilling to raise taxes to pay, and a wave of defaults (including the default of two of the wealthiest states, Maryland and Pennsylvania) resulted.[citation needed]

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:32 | 3740123 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

So, I guess what you are saying is that it had nothing to do with the massive increase in the cost of having an employee in the US, it was only due to false energy disparities?

No doubt, however, any debt increase, equals something.

Let the reader be the judge of just what.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:46 | 3739330 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Dare the author suggest that an awakening is possible?


Won't happen as long as the Establishment has a firm grip on the minds of the cattle via their education system and their media/entertainment/news complex.


Then again, it was Lenin that said "Revolution is only 3 meals away" so perhaps there is hope.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:47 | 3739347 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

That Lenin quote is supremely ironic.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:48 | 3739350 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Don't worry .... Socialism can't fail .... because it has never worked !  

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:09 | 3739437 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

Socialism works until you run out of other people's money. Margaret Thatcher

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:58 | 3739597 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess.  They always run out of other people's money" [to spend].

--Margaret Thatcher, 5 February 1976, per

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:47 | 3739600 Monedas
Monedas's picture

+ 1  for quoting Maggie !

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:00 | 3740232 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Oh, let me play: 


Thatcherism works until you run out of North Sea Oil...



Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:50 | 3739360 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  #10 Hemorrhagic Spendiing.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:52 | 3739364 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The worst plague, the one which underlies all others, is the combination of idiocy and ignorance among the people.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:59 | 3739393 prains
prains's picture

and more than a touch of hubris

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:52 | 3739365 Burticus
Burticus's picture

All economic systems are capitalist, since they all employ capital, defined as "the means of production".

The distinction is who has the four elements of control - title, possession, use and disposition.

In the free enterprise (capitalist) economic system, which only exists under a republican (rule of law) political system, private individuals have all four elements of control.

In the fascist, socialist and communist (capitalist) economic systems, which exist under political oligarchies (rule by the elite few) and democracies (majority or mob rule), the state has one or more of the four elements of control.

Watch "Overview of America" on YouTube to understand the political spectrum (100% totalitarian gubmint is "left", 0% gubmint or anarchy is "right"), political & economic systems and how they interact, to fit the missing pieces into your puzzle.  Yes, both Hitler & Stalin (and our elephant and jackass sock puppets) are on the extreme political left.

The free enterprise economic system under a gold standard made America great.  Elements of the fascist, socialist and communist economic systems under central banking are destroying the United State_.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:55 | 3739371 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

" . . . the total take of taxes has not risen dramatically . . . "

Actually, it looks fairly "dramatic" to me:

. . . if one considers the tax revenues extracted from the private sector . . . by all of the governments in the US:  state, local, municipal, federal, etc.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:41 | 3739580 CH1
CH1's picture

Look at taxes as a % of GDP.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:09 | 3739662 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

That's what "revenues" are, taxes.  But, the politicians have to change the names of everything to protect the guilty.

And, here is the spending chart:

But, never forget.  Government spending equals power equals corruption.  It is as inevitable as the sun rising tomorrow, whether one can see it or not.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:17 | 3739687 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

And, or course, here is the more important chart, the DEBT:

. . . And, zooming in more closely in time . . .

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:58 | 3739374 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Here we are .... a business and news blog .... and half the people here .... haven't a clue about Capitalism .... I predict an eternity of Socialism and unimaginable human suffering .... you have no idea how depraved people are !  Maybe .... after a new Dark Age of Socialism .... things will get so bad .... a plague will wipe out most humanity .... and we can have a new Capitalist Renaissance .... meanwhile .... hunker down .... and wait for the Trayon Martin riots !  

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:01 | 3739397 prains
prains's picture're not an advocate of king's english then either?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:05 | 3739419 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Martin Luther King spoke Ebonics .... not really true English !

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:09 | 3739439 prains
prains's picture

there was a stuttering king as well, can't remember his name, you might know.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:33 | 3739542 Monedas
Monedas's picture

If you take away Obamas teleprompter .... he stutters and stammers .... and he's clean and articulate .... according to Joe Biden !

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:51 | 3740203 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

A polished liar.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:56 | 3739381 uncle reggie
uncle reggie's picture

Or, perhaps better said: Our marginally capitalist, partly-free market systems are approaching a massive collapse.

The term "free market" is identical to the term "free trade." Both are propaganda. Sound great, but both are anything but "free." The market system as it exists on Wall Street, either "free" or "partly-free," is rigged to the max.  

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:01 | 3739398 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The only part of our economy that is even partly free market is main-street (pretty much mom and pop shops).


If your corporation is one of the big ones, you are on a different playing field, your on the "too big to fail" playing field... where you either get unlimited free money to gamble with or, you just get absorbed by one of the other too big to fails.


The problem is, there is no honorable part of our economy left.... the free market parts are getting crushed by too big to fail.


and obama is a fucking pussy sell out.


Nothing is going to get fixed till the big 8 get taken down.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:02 | 3739401 Monedas
Monedas's picture

If we colonize Mars .... how long before the Socialist riff raff show up .... and kill prosperity ?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 22:56 | 3740219 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

After it's built up enough for them to mooch off of it.

Like what happened to America.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:08 | 3739436 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

what is capitalism?

wikipedia says:

"Capitalism is an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital assets and goods. In a capitalist economy, investors are free to buy, sell, produce, and distribute goods and services with at most limited government control, at prices determined primarily by a competition for profit in a free market.[1][2][3] Central elements of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, and a price system.[4]"

the key here, is "at most limited government control".

what we have, is not capitalism.

so, this article stikes me as strange, talking about plagues that are collapsing capitalism, when capitalism doesn't really exist here in the first place.

we don't have limited government, nor a competitive markets and price system, we have a centrally (mis-)managed one that distorts value and inhibits true price discovery.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:02 | 3740242 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Freedom is an absolute, slavery comes in degrees.     unattributed?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:11 | 3739444 One And Only
One And Only's picture

What is all this bullshit about capitalism?

Someone explain to me how we have a capitalist society...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:14 | 3739460 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Let's make one thing clear:


Add the 22 million government workers to the 47% who pay no income tax.  Anyone whose salary is supposed to be paid by tax dollars can not, by definition, be a tax payer.  I think it's swell that we let them feel like they're paying taxes, but in actuality they are only kicking back a portion of their take.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:00 | 3739651 RKDS
RKDS's picture

That's a really stupid comment.

Curious, though, are you counting anyone in the "private" sector who makes money through government contracts amongst the non-taxpayers or does laundering money through a corporate bank account make it OK?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:23 | 3739722 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

No, that only makes it worse.  Fail to see how that proves the comment to be stupid.  He merely understated the problem.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:20 | 3740303 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

I indeed understated the problem.  When you add up all people who's livelihood is dependant on "taxpayer" money: Defense contractor employees, infrastructure project workers, college professors, bailed-out bankers etc. etc., it becomes clear that the very few Americans can call themselves bona fide taxpayers with a straight face.

I just thought we'd start with the really obvious and go from there.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 23:10 | 3740270 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I find your unbacked, by any facts or counter arguments, attack on his comments to be "a really stupid comment".

The more that is done by the private sector the better.  Consider some of what government does as a necessary evil.  Better that there is competition to perform those services at the best cost/benefit ratio by entities that are able to turn and perform actually productive services as well.  Government itself is simply a cost center that is trapped in one sector without the ability to pivot or compete and therefore doomed to waste and abuse.

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