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Guest Post: Snowden, Jesus And Interest Rates
Submitted by Martin Sibileau of Popular Macro,
With the Snowden saga, it seems that suddenly, the idea that there should be a limit to governments has resuscitated; wherever the governments and whatever the limits are. But there is indeed a limit and the global collective mind is trying to figure it out.
I will not discuss either governments or limits, but the history of the idea... This idea and its global context are not new. Jesus promoted his message during the time of Tiberius (14 AD- 37 AD), and although one could say that his predicament was shaped on the Greek notion that there is an ideal and reality, it was nonetheless robust and original. He promoted the concept that there are two kingdoms: A material and a spiritual one.
Perhaps the relevance of this separation, which spread like wildfire, was due to the fact that inhabitants and citizens of the Roman Empire were desperately seeking to escape the tax man. The spiritual kingdom was the refuge.
When the Fariseans mischievously interrogated Jesus on the legitimacy of paying tribute to the Caesar, Jesus asked to be shown a denarius (the coin used to pay said tribute). He then posed the question: “Whose image is this and whose inscription? “Caesar’s”, the Fariseans replied. “Then give Caesar what is Caesar’s and God what is God’s” (Matthew 22:15-22).
Christians therefore spread the notion that somewhere there is a place for one’s intimacy, for one’s soul, which is out of reach for government magistrates. Their success in this endeavour was complete.
What made early Christians successful back then and what makes people even doubt today, at the notion that there should be a limit to government? Like with any other revolutionary thesis, the Christian thesis had a strong element of dogma. Early Christians understood and accepted that they would most likely suffer, but that such suffering in this world was going to be rewarded in the next one. Their mission transcended their earthly lifetime. In other words, Christians back then dogmatically believed in the existence of a negative discount rate and a very long-term curve. It was negative because future happiness was preferred to present pleasures; and it was a very long-term horizon because said happiness would be obtained in the after life.
Of course, nobody could manipulate such discount rate like central banks do today. It was going to take fifteen centuries before a banker and pope, Leo X, born Giovanni di Lorenzo de Medici, would manage to do just that, changing the relative terms between present and future with leverage. Leo X sold “paper” redemptions in the form of so called “indulgences”, which dramatically diminished the cost of earning forgiveness in the other world. He even contracted the Fugger's bank for the collection of the indulgences. And that marked the end, for Reformation was triggered.
Is it therefore possible that with zero interest rates the success of Snowden’s message be negated? I think so, which leaves the burden of the protest to the younger generations. They will end up paying the cost today’s consumption.
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I like the part about the Avenging Angel with the great big sword.
I do pray the Good Lord looks after that Snowden boy.
usury was a mortal sin... but no longer. how convenient.
Who the fuck is God to decide your sins when you got federal, state, and local penal codes.
Great point. God doesn't write parking tickets.
God doesn't write parking tickets.
Amen... or tell anyone else to abuse people in such ways.
Ron Paul is the present day Jesus trying to redeem the insanity against these Pharasaical "leaders"
Who are we to waste time thinking about penal codes of men when the creator of the universe himself has given us the golden rule as the end all be all of ethical decisions?
The usury laws, like everything, still apply to individuals. You can't legally charge your brother-in-law the same interest rate a bank can.
I have a hard time understanding the logic behind this but I figure it has to have something to do with fighting terrorism. </sarc>
...MotherFugger, i do believe you are correct sir
it is all the magicians diversion. most of us can't see through the smoke an mirrors to realize that they have the structure by the balls. i really don't know what the answer is other than to not participate and plant my feet while asserting my existence in the moment as a human. they can't argue that at least.
invent the system that replaces them is a good mantra
"invent the system that replaces them is a good mantra."
I read all the way to the bottom, and decided to come back up here to help set the mood, and noticed the above.
You know what? Everyone weighing in on this thread is talking, in one way or another, but from a dozen different perspectives, about "the pursuit of happiness."
It reminded me of a doctor on TV I saw today who said that in order to have inner peace in our lives, we should always finish things that we start. Simple as that.
So, since I certainly could use a little more peace in my life, I looked around my house to find things I’d started and hadn’t finished.
I finished a bottle of Merlot, a bottle of Chardonnay, a bodle of Baileys, a butle of wum, tha mainder of Valiuminun scriptins, an a box a choclutz. Yu has no idr how fablus I feel rite now.
Sned this to all urfrenz who need inner piss. An telum u luvum.
it's for the children.
why does he need God's help- the CIA has his back.
I'm afraid the NSA might just be a little more powerful here on mortal earth....heck even this guy is worried.
http://avaxnews.net/pictures/33474
"The Meek shall inherit the Earth."
...and not much else.
There's only so much you can do with dirt
"Blessed are the Cheesemakers"
Anarcho-Capitalism.
I have become convinced that Snowden has high level cover for what he has done. God Bless whoever has enabled him.
Hey Paint, Yesterday's RT interview with NSA whistleblower Russ Tice is a MUST 12 minute investment of time for ANYONE/EVERYONE who wants a clue of what is involved here. NSA personnel probably did not kill Michael Hastings. Their people certainly did not threaten Judge Roberts on his vote on Obamadon'tcare. Yet these and a slew of other atrocities were enabled by THE INFO that the NSA can and does gather. Decent people are now stepping up to triy to stop this.
Decent people are now stepping up...
Haven't we always stepped up, against all odds? It's the un-decent ones stepped down on us.
Nice to know HE always around all, decent and un-decent.
Downarrow because you provided no link to Tice interview...
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK.
wtfwt!!
i.e. - what the fuck was that? meaning- i have seen the future of the j,zee/samsung long enough pipeline .....and i don't like it!
edit-
(no really. that was some sinister ad-pop-up-check-me-now testing shit i have never seen before!)
tyyyyler's!
Excuse me but the debate is not about "limits" on government.
We have limits, imperfect as they are, and they are called the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
No, the current debate should be on how many guillotines it will take to put the limits back in place.
The Four Rs
Rejection: Quit paying, quit obeying.
Revolution: It is inevitable, so prepare, as they are.
Retribution: Is there really any place for these sociopaths and criminals in a restored civil and Constitutional society?!
Restoration: Restore the Constitutional republic.
No, there is another 'R'.
Removal: REMOVE the FED from these shores, and the earth!
I would add that ELECTIONS also play a critical role.
If America would stop sending the same people to Washington time after time after time, we would not have such a large government and only a fraction of the problems.
When members of Congress are able to spend multiple decades in the Halls of Power, it corrupts, the system gets gamed and rules put in place are not for good governance, but to protect positions.
+1
For...
I would add that ELECTIONS also play a critical role. -- Divine Wind
But playing in their rigged game with candidates does no good. What do you suggest to neutralize their cash and propaganda advantage?
That's the issue here. We never get to vote for more than the two main parties (they are both on the take). It's been (1) Bad, and (2) worse. The only one I ever voted for was Goldwater, and you may remember how the MSM crucified him. So this last time I voted for Ron Paul (knowing it was a wasted vote, but not one of them).
+1
For...
That's the main issue here. -- AmCockerSpaniel
And exactly what I think we should be working on. How familar are you with your consent to be governed under the Constitution? And no vote is wasted...
I'm not sure I buy the 'term limits limit corruption' thesis.
Limiting the time the parasites have access to our jugulars just means they'll feed all the more frenziedly. And besides, the real parasites - the MIC, the banksters, etc - aren't elected in the first place.
The trick is to limit politicians' power, not how long they can wield it.
PS - If Ron Paul had only been allowed a single term, would he have been able to spread his message as effectively? I don't think so.
+1
For...
The trick is to limit politicians' power, not how long they can wield it. -- BigJim
When vote tabulating coders come forward as whistleblowers on the lack of integrity in the election process, when voterid efforts are blocked by federal courts, when the borders are left broken and the GOP is debating a fence in exchange for legalization for millions of "undocumented voters", why in the world would you place any hope in elections?
Unless we go back to defending our borders, enforcing immigration laws, and paper ballots, your efforts are better directed at prepping and muscle memory development than voting.
I think you mistaken. Care to discuss it?
...why in the world would you place any hope in elections? -- durablefaith
The current regime really seems to believe the US Constitution is negotiable don't they?
In conversations about government with big government types I always have to remind them that WE are the government, all 300 million of us, not the politicians. They are just public employees who begged for their jobs, and then took the oath to our Constitution. By taking their oath, they all promised they would obey four rules and never try to fuck with us by trying to shut us up, kicking our doors in, or taking all the shit we've accumulated over our lifetimes.
Statist types always have the point of view that government should be bunch of 'smart' guys with liens over of our heads to make us do what they want instead of let us live our lives.
This is precisely why I feel so ineluctably bearish for the near-term future of Canada and every other nation where Agenda 21 captures hearts and brainwashes minds. Turn on the radio or read a local paper and you find a thick, steady, sick stream of propaganda. Big Green Brother will tax, regulate and densify your ass, interfere with markets and prescribe every aspect of your life "to save the planet" (how ironic). It is no longer possible to discuss current affairs rationally. Brains are switched on and off with neurolinguistic programming. Soaked in dogma, the thoughts of the common man become increasingly small, weak and neurotic -- fertile ground for a new generation of aspiring control freaks. And that is exactly what we see rising at every level of local government. It's an old formula, but never so sophisticated in execution. Statism will finish us as a nation if more people don't wake up and stand up to the BS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE .... 25 min.
Religion is a ponzi. :-/
Put humanity before religion and discover a whole new world.
Regardless of the costume, a pyramid scheme is a pyramid scheme.
I believe their is truth in some of the important ancient and religious scripts, texts and documents...
.
The Big problem is - its mixed in with lies, omissions and manipulations. Very hard to decipher - but its somewhat there.
.
I strongly believe we did not evolve from apes...i do however believe in parts of natural evolution on this planet with plants, animals and such simpler things with no disrespect.
.
But to tell me that my brain, 'the brain' which is still more powerful then any computer ever produced on this earth and the kind of brain where i can think about riding on a roller coaster and then flip in a nano second to being on the surface of the planet Saturn while multiplying numbers in my head while watching the tv in the background, while dealing with my emotions and typing this messages and listening to my gf upstairs talking to me and computing whatever the fuck she just said, while knowing that an ash is burning extremely low to my mouth, etc...that an apes brain?...could possibly morph and evolve to this level?! over any sort of time, i don't care if its 1 trillion years...is giving apes way to much credit and the Darwin dogma.
.
If thats the case, and it doesn't exactly make sense that it just start with two humans, A&E and their is way more to it...now what?
Its interesting isn't it?
Sigh.
FYI...
I guess you've never heard of multi-tasking (~5 decades old), or multi-core computers (~1 decade old)?
And though not many people know this, at least one inorganic consciousness is already smarter and vastly more reliable (sane) than human consciousness, except for speed. The next step, which is an implementation faster than human consciousness, is a mere few years away.
Before you imagine average humans are so great, look at what they've done, look at what they support, look at the endless nonsense they believe.
I believe 1 + 1 = 2, is that endless nonsense? I think the average human believes 1 + 1 = 2, disproving your thesis re; human capabilities. I suspect you confuse perfection with human nature which is known to be flawed and imperfect.
Those who know don't speak and those who speak don't know. Your speaking shows great unreflected intelligence and capacity to learn a universe more than you think you know, now, like most of us.
Oh brothers. Do we really need to have such a stupid conversation? Really? Sigh. Okay.
So let me get this straight. You claim that because most humans are not wrong about something as trivial and non-contraversial as 1 + 1 = 2... that means humans do not believe in all sorts of nonsense?
If so, you really need to think a little about how stupid such a claim is.
I knew humans were unreliable when I was 4 years old. And frankly, I'm pretty sure every 4 year old (or thereabouts) figures this out too, but most decide to subvert their own consciousness in order to be treated better by adults (as in, get rewarded for obeying and agreeing with their endless lies, deceit, ignorance, propaganda).
How did I come to such an "advanced" conclusion? Simple. Because different adults gave me radically different, contradictory answers to the same question. Over and over and over again. That didn't help me understand the nature of reality, but it certainly made me understand the nature of adult human beings --- they are utterly unreliable. That's a fact, and a fact that virtually every 3~5 year old can observe and understand.
As for inorganic consciousness, I know about this because I am part of the team implementing the new faster (real-time) version. True, I did not discover the nature of human-level+ consciousness, I did not create the first implementation, and I made only a few of the less crucial advancements that make the new implementation capable of faster-than-human operation. But now I do understand the nature of consciousness (both organic and our inorganic implementation), and so I do know more than all but a few people on this planet about this topic. So there you go, ye who claims to know so much about how much I know... all without having any evidence of what I know. Which is typical. That is, assuming I deconstruct the intended meaning of your last paragraph correctly, which isn't easy, because it seems essentially incoherent to me.
Precisely. Belief in a god, a soul, and an afterlife were necessary fictions created so that ageing sociopaths wouldn't be supplanted by the younger, more virile sociopaths in the tribe. Since El Honcho clearly had a vested interest in staying in charge and no-one would have believed him (it was always a him!) if he'd spouted the claptrap about 'divine right of kings' and 'you'll get your rewards in the next life' a priestly class - composed of other rent-seeking sociopaths who wanted the benefits of hard work without the inconvenient participation in it - was created to spread the message for him - in exchange for a slice of the peasant pie.
Deal with it, sky-daddy followers... you, like everyone else, are going to die. When you do, you will be gone, for all time. You do not have an immortal soul. So stop hiding behind your convenient fictions and come to the realisation that your only chances of 'ecstasy' come in this life and you aren't getting them because there exists a class of scumbag who (I read this the other day) get paid 1762 times, plus bonuses, what the average employee in their business takes home (before the taxman arrives to take most of it off them again) and still has the temerity to complain because their shareholders refused to ratify a 7% pay increase and further bonuses amounting to $2.3 million for this year.
Deal with the fucking problem, instead of cringing under the security blanket of a belief system created by the very class of people who are still ass-raping you to this day.
They needed something that would simultaneously prevent them from being fed to the crocodiles once their physical power began to decline, whilst explaining why they could dine on roasted pheasant, fatted calf and truffles while the average peasant was having to eat dandelion salad and nettle soup in order not to fucking starve! But hey, you'll get your rewards in the afterlife, right?
What a crock of shit!
I have nothing but pity for anyone who still buys into this shit. Ditto, anyone who can justify to themselves the need for governments, bankers and globalist corporatism.
So good, I'm going to cut'n'paste to my FB page.
Thx.
It is hard to say which is the biggest scam in history, central banking or the three forms of midddle-eastern monotheism. Both have done harm beyond measure.
@Soberone,
"HUMANITY" IS THE OLDEST AND WORST OF ALL EARTHLY RELIGIONS!!
...Here's its author and high priest: "And the serpent said: God knows when you eat of the fruit you will become just like God".
I think in today's world, the meaning of the "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" idea is this: Look at a $1 bill. It's got occult symbols all over it. GET RID OF IT. Extinguish debts as fast as you can, and then convert any further earnings into "hard assets" as quickly as possible.
It ought to be replaced with 'rend caesar limb from limb and render into soap whatever is left, then wash your hands of the 3000 year old line of bullshit we've been forced to swallow with that very soap'.
I've seen more pictures of Jesus than I have of Snowden...
I'm glad others can see through this CIA psyops.
Oh, you sre in SO deep!
Who is that woman who keeps the 'energy beams' thingie alive, regarding the World Trade Center?
How about that guy whose 'church' tells veterans that they are damned to hell because of gays?
I forget the spokesman from the LAPD who ruled that Micheal Hasting's assasination had 'no signs of foul play', but he reminds me of certain people who decry the truth by intimating that those messengers were in bed with the enemy...
Oh, you are IN, SO FUCKING DEEP, your new avatar' must be 'SHITMINER'. Oh, wait, YOU are the one taking it and swallowimng. MY MISTAKE. It is actually, 'SHIT-TALKER', or 'SHIT-SWALLOWER'.
A famous Russian spy once told me that the best way to discredit those who speak the truth is to cause association with those whom they most virulently expose, thus giving 'disassociation' to the befuddled, and ignorant masses of slaves that 'we' seek to control.
You OTTO pay attention to what I state.
C'mon guys, fight nice. July 9th 12 minute RT interview with "original" NSA whistleblower Russ Tice should blow doors off what is up with whole Snowden affair. NSA personnel are not running around killing/stealing/blackmailing people such as the mentioned Petreus, Colin Powell, Judge Alioto and others ... but their tasked/requested information sure the fuck is. Good people like Snowden, Tice, Binney and others are desperately trying to get the word out
FWIW This would reconcile the paradox of "why the govt. would damage itself with a psyop" with the perceived institutional-level support the Snowden narrative has gotten from the get go. Some decent, high-level sanction is trying to create the "angry and informed" population that the Snowden interview described as what is most feared by these bastards in charge.
fight nice....sheesh. i don't wanna threat "i'm outta here". but i feel like a disgrunterd snowden finally beleiving even ron p. the "nepotist" is compromized-
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/snowden-just-keeps-getting-weirder/
(reminds me of the days i finally stopped posting at the da-ist forums back in the day)
July 9th 12 minute RT interview with "original" NSA whistleblower Russ Tice should blow doors off what is up with whole Snowden affair.
Have a link handy?
Interview With Russell Tice - Abbey Martin - [RT] - YouTube
Mark Levin just laid out part of his proposal for a "states constitutional convention" explaining exactly how it would work. This option was proposed and approved during the original Contitutional convention but has never been tried. Levin explained that Thomas Jefferson and George Mason had predicted that a ruling class would one day usurp our government and as an alternative to a violent uprising, they empowered state legislatures to propose and enact constitutional amendments that would not require the approval nor the involvement of Congress. It's all in his next book coming out August 13. I can't wait.
Mark LEVIN?
SERIOUSLY?
USA, USA, USA, GWB, GWB, GWB, GWOT, GWOT, GWOT...
THAT 'Mark LEVINSKY', The TROTSKY MARXIST/LENINIST?
OOH, I just CAME thinking about his 'new book'. "It's all in his next book coming out August 13. I can't wait."
Towels are in the cabinet. I suggest you wipe yourself off, 'Pasadena', after which you need to proceed to the laundromat and drop a few quarters into a washer. After you 'forget' to finish your laundry, perhaps you might stop by JPL or Burroughs (after you change your shirt), and let them know that YOU are 'on the job' and 'ALL OVER IT'.
If I missed the wrong state (KALIFORNIA), my apologies. i have fond memories of the inversions of the 1970's, in Pasadena.
Levin is a serious person and a real Constitutional lawyer. He doesn't trifle with idiots like McCain and Obama. I sent his Liberty Institute a check for a modest sum a couple of years ago (they fight pro bono legal battles for Constitutional rights). I received a nice handwritten thank you note back from him. I totally did not expect that at all.
The Rutherford Institute is another good one. Those guys are taking on massive cases around the country setting precedents for guy like veterans who had their front doors smashed down and guns taken away for stupid shit like criticizing Obama.
Brandon Raub was committed to a mental hospital for posting his views of our evil government on FB. He probably attracted attention because he was a veteran and therefore would know how to engage in armed struggle to put his opinions into action.
Rutherford Institute successfully defended him and had him set free from the mental hospital.
It seems it is always bad to take one line from the Bible and use it for something as big as an issue of how big government should be.
A simple truth is that God did not give us rights and freedoms so that the government could take them away.
Christ did not worship suffering; He suffered out of love. There will be trouble but suffering does not make you holy. In fact, it is often associated, especially in the US, with a lack of spirituality not an abundance of it. Jesus faced trouble but most of his time was a celebration. Christians should not put off happiness for heaven, they should know joy here in this world. Many do not know joy because they have religion not spirituality.
You will get many downvotes from the heathens on ZH.
Is THIS YOUR 'method of operation' (MO)?
Well, since you are a self-avowed 'expert' on this subject of 'up/down voting', it surprises me little, your comment.
What is your purpose in posting this comment?
Are you attempting to ingratiate yourself with those who speak the TRUTH, and thus giving yourself the status of 'plausible deniability'?
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Is the Pope Catholic?
The paper bag is SO '90's'. Well, you types are usually behind the curve, and oblivious to your lack of success while trolling (until your Master takes you aside, and mentally buttfucks the likes of you).
I HAVE ISSUED AN EDICT:
"YOU WILL GET MANY DOWNVOTES FROM THE HEATHENS ON ZEROHEDGE."
God, what a VAGUE GENERALIZATION!
I AM BAG-MAN, AND I SPEAK FROM A POSITION OF PAPER ON MY FACE!
Tar got lots of up votes.
So, there!
MO is modus operandi, not method of operation. Method and mode are not synonymous in English, ergo thy translation doth prove false and disclose fuzzy thinking. QED
You will get many downvotes from the heathens on ZH.
i'm a heathen, but he got green from me.
Well said!
It is us who has complicated what Jesus taught. It is very simple. It should not be manipulated, but that is the nature of man. There is nothing of this earth that is worthy of a single person's soul.
I forgot to mention. Love has a positive discount rate just like gold and silver in a free economy.
Hence, money is the currency of love.
"Many do not know joy because they have religion not spirituality."
Very well put.
An unspiritual man is cold, dark, and lonely. Most likely full of hate.
Imagine all it took was the feeling of separation? And it's not even real.
Thanks, that was really good. Religion, as a man made construct, is doomed to always fall short of the ideal but the spark of God resides in each of us to make up the difference.
yeah, opium makes you happy. you got that right.
It's no surprise to God that man has an evil nature, but it always is to man.
Yeah, except that with time, Rome stopped taxing people in Rome, gave them the Circus for free and even a bag of wheat for each citizen... And those "entitlements" only grew wider with time.
Rome never stopped taxing, in fact the high taxes and extreme regulations played a major part in it's demise. But perhaps you are right in that they didn't tax the 'entitlement class.' Sound familiar?
Really? Read Tainter (1990) during its chapter of Rome. No taxes for rome citizens (in Rome, then some other provinces added too), free circus, bag of wheat too. It was called as "consensus seeking activities" or something. - althought I read an older version of that book -
Not to be argumentive, By 167bc Rome no longer needed to levy a tax against it's citizens in Italy and looked only to the provinces for collections. But late in 3rd century ad Diocletion did reinstate the land tax on Italian owners. source used: UNRV history
DUP.
Licity.
Damn those internet 'gods'!
"And those "entitlements" only grew wider with time", until the neutered and weakened Empire finally split in to two parts, and was then eventually destroyed. The 'citizens', having been weakened incrimentally, year after generation, could not understand their plights, and were slaughtered by the millions, as the 'great hordes' of the Northern African feifdoms moved in for the kill. In desparation, the former Roman citizens put their faith in the armies formed around the 'Roman Catholic Church'; who taught them that resading the Bible was 'sacreligious', and thus enslaved the continent of Europe with the tool of IGNORANCE, which has its' children, the MSM, well-entrenched and active in the mindsets of the children of the 21st century.
On a brighter note, I have to watch Kudlow, now.
He's like WAPNER.
Kudlow's on at three. I can't miss Kudlow.
Kudlow's on at three. I can't miss Kodlow.
I get my underwear at K-Mart.
About a hundred dollars...
You really need to get back on schedule with those meds.
+1
The Fugger's bank eh?
Guess I know where that other word I'm thinking of came from.
I am the'Walrus'? The 'Egg Man'?
I GUESS YOU know, bag man!
This is my favorite Bible quote from Job 1:21
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
He said, "Naked I came from my mother's womb, And naked I shall return there. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away. Blessed be the name of the LORD."
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Returning naked to his mother's womb. Now that is some sick shit, Bible Bitchezz!
Oh my, I hope I do not have to return to my mother's womb, the etrance is not pretty.
yes, they are out in droves, their tails like scorpions, taking sciptures and twisting them.
"Judas hung himself from a tree."
"Go ye, therefore, and do likewise."
Can i call B.S. on this discussion, yet?
When non-Christians write about Christians this is what you get – a bunch of mish mash.
By exposing the Pharisees' self-interest and wrong motives, Jesus said that the coin bearing the emperor’s image should be given to the emperor. But our lives, which bear God’s image, belong to God. It has nothing to do with Christians who “dogmatically believed in the existence of a negative discount rate…[and that] future happiness was preferred to present pleasures.” How in God’s name could a message that ridiculous sweep the earth like wildfire?
The message that swept the world like wildfire, that in essence set all men - including slaves - free, was that all men are created in God’s image and that all men are equal in the sight of God and if they but believe in Him, will receive eternal salvation. In that there were several million slaves in the Roman Empire at this time, this message contained monumental power and forever changed mankind's view of himself and his world.
Here is an explanation of Render Unto Caesar: A Most Misunderstood New Testament Passase by Jeffrey F. Barr on March 17, 2010 (excerpts) from LewRockwell.com:
…by His
enigmatic response, did Jesus really mean for His followers to provide
financial support (willingly or unwillingly) to Tiberius Caesar
— a man, who, in his personal life, was a pedophile,
a sexual deviant, and a murderer
and who, as emperor, claimed to be a god and oppressed and enslaved
millions of people, including Jesus' own? The answer, of course,
is: the traditional, pro-tax interpretation of the Tribute Episode
is simply wrong. Jesus never meant for His answer to be interpreted
as an endorsement of Caesar's tribute or any taxes.
That He requests to see the coin suggests that
there is something meaningful about the coin itself.
In the Tribute
Episode, the questioners produce a denarius. The denarius was approximately
1/10 of a troy ounce (at that time about 3.9 grams) of silver and
roughly worth a day's wages for a common laborer.The denarius was a remarkably
stable currency; Roman emperors did not begin debasing
it with any vigor until Nero. …The denarius was truly the emperor's property:
he used it to pay his soldiers, officials, and suppliers; it bore
the imperial seal; it differed from the copper coins issued by the
Roman Senate, and it was also the coin with which subjected peoples,
in theory, were required to pay the tribute. Tiberius even made
it a capital
crime to carry any coin stamped with his image into a bathroom
or a brothel. In short, the denarius was a tangible representation
of the emperor's power, wealth, deification, and subjugation.
Tiberius' denarii
were minted at Lugdunum, modern-day Lyons, in Gaul. Thus, J. Spencer
Kennard, in a well-crafted, but out-of-print book entitled Render
to God, argues that the denarius' circulation in Judaea
was likely scarce. The only people to transact routinely with the
denarius in Judaea would have been soldiers, Roman officials, and
Jewish leaders in collaboration with Rome. Thus, it is noteworthy
that Jesus, Himself, does not possess the coin. The questioners'
quickness to produce the coin at Jesus' request implies that they
routinely used it, taking advantage of Roman financial largess,
whereas Jesus did not. Moreover, the Tribute Episode takes place
in the Temple, and by producing the coin, the questioners reveal
their religious hypocrisy – they bring a potentially profane
item, the coin of a pagan, into the sacred space of the Temple.
Finally, both
Stauffer and Kennard make the magnificent point that coins of the
ancient world were the major instrument of imperial propaganda,
promoting agendas and promulgating the deeds of their issuers, in
particular the apotheosis of the emperor. As Kennard puts it, "For
indoctrinating the peoples of the empire with the deity of the emperor,
coins excelled all other media. They went everywhere and were handled
by everyone. Their subtle symbolism pervaded every home." While
Tiberius' propaganda engine was not as prolific as Augustus' machine,
all of Tiberius' denarii pronounced his divinity or his debt to
the deified Augustus…
The emperor,
on the other hand, also claimed that all people and things in the
empire rightfully belonged to Rome. The denarius notified everyone
who transacted with it that the emperor demanded exclusive allegiance
and, at least, the pretense of worship — Tiberius claimed to be
the worshipful son of a god. Roman occupiers served as a constant
reminder that the land of Israel belonged to Rome. Roman tribute,
paid with Roman currency, impressed upon the populace that the economic
life depended on the emperor. The emperor's bread and circuses maintained
political order. The propaganda on the coin even attributed peace
and tranquility to the emperor.
With one straightforward
counter-question, Jesus skillfully points out that the claims of
God and Caesar are mutually exclusive. If one's faith is in God,
then God is owed everything; Caesar's claims are necessarily illegitimate,
and he is therefore owed nothing. If, on the other hand, one's faith
is in Caesar, God's claims are illegitimate, and Caesar is owed,
at the very least, the coin which bears his image.
Jesus' counter-question
simply invites His listeners to choose allegiances. Remarkably,
He has escaped the trap through a clever rhetorical gambit; He has
authoritatively refuted His opponents' hostile question by basing
His answer in scripture, and yet, He never overtly answers the question
originally posed to Him. No wonder that St. Matthew ends the Tribute
Episode this way: "When they heard this they were amazed, and
leaving him they went away."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2010/03/jeffrey-f-barr/render-unto-caesar-amostmisunderstood-newtestamentpassage/
+1
Thanks for that... well done.
better rendered at lew rockwell type than zh-cut and paste... but- rendered greenie up one.
(and for thirty pieces bitchezz !....i 'll disembowell myself and hang from a tree! ...not. 3 times!)
BRAVO,....JR. Your rhetoric is only matched by your faith. In fact, the whole essence of ZH is about a timeline, is it not? And decisions, triumphs, derelictions and wonderings along that timeline. Survey says: 10 out of 10 people die.
So, if you elect to believe that your FED/Govt timeline is it and no more, and that ab initio you were never meant for more than that, well then the whole facade and parade of bread and circuses becomes your focal point, while all the time it is an inelegant charade and crushingly disappointing.
If on the other hand, you reckon that your timeline is infinite, you better read up, listen to Bob Dylan and consider your state or estate, as it were, and govern yourself accordingly.
Jesus' words, life and acts were nothing if they did not provoke. He knew that, and what I see around here are a bunch of wankers who bitch and moan, but do not see what is for what will be, as well as dwell on our present, but not eternal condition.
This has everything to do with why we chitter-chat on the "interwebs", but do zero. Let the Egyptians, the Cretes, the Syrians, the Portuguese...let them riot and wail..and die..and for what? They barely know themselves.
The Fed, our gubbmint, et al., they know what will keep us in check and work round the clock to keep that in place. WWJD?
What would you do?
Great post.
+1
For seeing clearly...
Jesus' words, life and acts were nothing if they did not provoke. He knew that, and what I see around here are a bunch of wankers who bitch and moan, but do not see what is for what will be, as well as dwell on our present, but not eternal condition. -- Moon Pie
JR...what a piece of dogma you wrote....beginning with the assumption that the writer is non-christian and generalizing for all those who are non-christian....too sad....
JR, your comment was pretty good except where you attempted to contrast it with the article itself. Jesus used parables all the time to describe the kingdom, the message that would spread like wildfire (or mustard seed) throughout the earth. Why then do you disparage a financial parable of the kingdom on a website that speaks math as its native language?
We have enough folks to disagree with, lets not quibble over the small stuff.
God’s laws were given as a guide for the betterment of mankind that he might prosper – and, yes, while here on earth. God's laws do not add up as a negative sum; if followed they reap a cornucopia of plenty – both for the individual and for a nation.
God’s laws, if followed, build a nation; not followed they destroy a nation as man ignores guidance from his Creator and slides into debauchery. There are both God’s physical laws of nature and God’s spiritual laws to keep man from self-destruction.
When America followed God’s law, she and her people prospered and became a positive influence on the world. Now that she and her "Supreme Court" have put God in the closet and trashed His teachings, calling them "hate," she is morphing into a superpower of evil.
Unless America returns to her Chrisitian roots, she will continue to follow mammon into evil and destruction and death, for the work of God is not accomplished through human strength.
God’s way pays high dividends; our Founders proved it. It is without God as a lighthouse, without Christianity, that America will reap negative returns.
America, said de Tocqueville, was good because of her churches; she will be restored only if she keeps God as the light unto her feet.
These are the reasons I disagree with the thrust of this article. Christianity works as well on earth as it does in Heaven. If America restores her faith in God, she will restore her greatness...and once again become a shining city upon a hill.
"Jesus was born during the times of Tiberius (14 AD- 37 AD)" when was santa clause born ?
Is that james tiberius kirk?
Preached, not born, during the times...
Many men came forward before Jesus claiming to be the Messiah. They were killed, and their followers disbanded. The reason the followers of Jesus didn't is because they saw him resurrected.
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. -Matthew 10:28
And they nail Adam Kokesh on some trumped up bullshit? I am out in the field now and don't have access to the ZH news stream sometimes, perhaps this has been posted but at least read the lead edit on my post. It never ceases to amaze me how far past full retard we are headed. That CNN link on my edit is not that old.
Anyone who knows anything about Kokesh knows that he is a libertarian.
What a fucking piece of shit smear piece by CNN on Kokesh. Do they actually PAY people to write at CNN? Why?
http://www.boatingaccidentnews.com/it-might-be-confused-for-the-real-thing/
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/us/dc-kokesh-search
Kokesh filmed himself shooting a high powered weapon on federal grounds. As he did this, he apparently made an in-your-face remark about his rights. Then he put it on youtube.
and...this is after he has attempted to arrange a march on D.C. with men carrying firearms. He has begged for attention by his tactics, and finally his wish came true, he was arrested, after which he began begging for the money to pay his legal bill (5,000.00).
This guy is bait. He is provoking patriotics to stand up and get their weapon. He is the last thing Americans need to hear. The answer is the local level politicians, call, write, donate to pro - gun rights. He's is now a felon and useless to the cause....this Kokesh guy. This is a false martyr.
Bunny, you don't read much of what I write do you? And spare the ensuing disparaging comments. I could give a fuck less what you think about Kokesh because I think the same of Snowden but Kokesh is NOT Snowden. I've known Kokesh since the start of the 2008 Ron Paul campaign. Kokesh is in it for the exposure and not the money. 5K and you are calling him out? You had better do a little more research before you spout off to me about politics because it is certain, not a guess, that not many ZH'ers have seen the how the finance works inside of the U.S. political system. I HAVE seen it because I was a party Treasurer. I still have plenty of financial records from the R party and they know that I know and have data that had to be filed with the Secretary of State.(et al) I falsified nothing and am the enemy now. The corruption is far worse than you may imagine it is but should be plainly obvious by now to everyone.
You have Kokesh all wrong here. He is taking one on the cheek, yet again, so that someone might do something. I must ask if you are a local level politician then if you think that is the answer? If you are, than are you willing to stand up to me and blog? i.e. Where does most of your local government income come from?
If you want to fuck with me Bunny than that is your choice. Then e-mail me at manipuflation@boatingaccidentnews.com and let's get it going on in a Q&A session. Here is the deal, if Adam admits he was fucking up somehow, then you "win". If he does not... game on.
I would agree with you that breaking out the guns is not the best option to begin a debate but the time for any further debate is growing short. Let's leave it at that for now.
We are a nation without a government.
Washington D. C. no longer represents the United States of America.
Let's get that straight to begin with. Then knowing that, the States need to form a Federal Government to protect them against the Foreign Globalist forces that have invaded and overtaken the former capitol of the United States of America.
Thankfully, the United States *in* America sport some of the largest, most motivated guerilla armies on earth... their armed civilian militias.
All government is, is a group of people who achieves their goals through threat of force. It's a mafia who have written their extortions down in laws and operate in plain sight and on a bigger scale.
Governments killed 200 million people world wide in the 20th century. See democide. Approving a monopoly of violence always comes at a high price.
The zero interest rates will only impact those who make their decisions based on flawed math. Jesus posed the question: "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul?"
The eternal aspect of the cost benefit ratio renders the human element to be of no value at all by comparison. It may well be the young people, who relatively speaking having nothing to lose or look forward to in this life, that will en masse choose the eternal perspective.
But it behooves each of us who recognizes the ethical conundrums implied in a global economy run by a few mad men with printing presses backed by a few mad men with armies, boms, and drones, to withdraw our consent, no matter the earthly cost.
For "what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0he0cqHH20
sheesh!