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Latest Snowden Poll Results: 55% Say Whistleblower; 34% Say Traitor

Tyler Durden's picture


Immediately in the aftermath of the Snowden revelations, various political action committees and their ideologically affiliated polling services took to convincing the general public that according to "popular opinion", a "majority" of Americans found Snowden to be a [traitor|hero]. A month later, with the the dust having settled somewhat, the US public has had some more time to consider the implications of living in the United Stasi States of America. And sure enough, another poll has just been released, this time by Quinnipiac. Its findings are as follows: a majority of U.S. registered voters consider Edward Snowden a whistle-blower, not a traitor, and a plurality says government anti-terrorism efforts have gone too far in restricting civil liberties, a poll released today shows. Fifty-five percent said Snowden was a whistle-blower in leaking details about top-secret U.S. programs that collect telephone and Internet data, in the survey from Hamden, Connecticut-based Quinnipiac University. Thirty-four percent said he’s a traitor.

The view of Snowden as a whistle-blower rather than traitor predominated among almost every group of respondents broken down by party, gender, income, education and age. Black voters were the lone exception, with 43 percent calling Snowden a traitor compared with 42 percent saying he was a whistle-blower.

More from the poll:

The poll also showed that by 45 percent to 40 percent, respondents said the government goes too far in restricting civil liberties as part of the war on terrorism. That was a reversal from January 2010, when in a similar survey 63 percent said anti-terrorism activities didn’t go far enough to protect the U.S. from attacks, compared with 25 percent who disagreed.


“The massive swing in public opinion about civil liberties and governmental anti-terrorism efforts, and the public view that Edward Snowden is more whistle-blower than traitor, are the public reaction and apparent shock at the extent to which the government has gone in trying to prevent future terrorist incidents,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of Quinnipiac’s polling institute.


“The verdict that Snowden is not a traitor goes against almost the unified view of the nation’s political establishment,” Brown said.


Facing espionage and other charges and with his passport revoked, Snowden has been holed up at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport since arriving there on June 23 from Hong Kong, which refused a U.S. extradition request. President Barack Obama’s administration has been pressuring other countries not to grant Snowden asylum, and U.S. officials who have called him a traitor include House Speaker John Boehner, an Ohio Republican.


The poll showed both Democrats and Republicans about evenly divided on whether government counter-terrorism measures have become excessive. Independent voters view the methods as having gone too far by 49 percent to 36 percent.


The fact that there is little difference now along party lines about the overall anti-terrorism effort and civil liberties and about Snowden is in itself unusual in a country sharply divided along political lines about almost everything,” Brown said.


A gender gap emerges, though, on the government’s anti-terrorism programs. The poll showed that men, by 54 percent to 34 percent, see the government as having gone too far in its efforts while women, by 47 percent to 36 percent, said the measures haven’t gone far enough.


Despite this divergence, figures for the genders from Quinnipiac’s January 2010 poll exemplify the overall change in attitude on the issue. Male respondents, by 61 percent to 28 percent, said in the earlier survey that the government hadn’t gone far enough to protect the country. Among women, 64 percent said the same.


Likewise, among Republicans the percentage who said government has gone overboard in restricting civil liberties in the fight against terrorism grew to 41 percent in the new poll, compared with 17 percent three years ago.

Of course, this poll will promptly be overturned by another poll conducted by MSNBC (or comparable), finding that 120% of Americans believe Snowden deserves the chair. And the farce will go on.


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Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:01 | 3737161 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

<<< whistleblower

<<<<  traitor

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:11 | 3737188 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

Egypt revolts.
US polls.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:14 | 3737202 john39
john39's picture

.01% realize that snowden is assange 2.0....  another fake.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:18 | 3737219 pods
pods's picture

And the purpose of this fake is?


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:21 | 3737228 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

not a psyop......he's the real deal......they would prefer that he disappears

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:23 | 3737234 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

He's disappeared so deep that nobody has snapped a new foto of him in over a month...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:29 | 3737238 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"...a majority of U.S. registered voters....."

So the poll is completely useless!!!!!!!!!

Tyler, if ur gonna post a poll the least you could do is let us know the amount of people surveyed!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:30 | 3737260 imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Check out Drudge this morning.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:07 | 3737422 john39
john39's picture

>>the purpose of the fake is?

give it time to play out.  Ultimately the goal is to collapse American society...  and turn the rest of the world against what remains of the U.S. and its people.   The U.S. government was hijacked long ago... and the people essentially enslaved.  when the time finally comes, the government, like the economy, will be collapsed...  to hide the crimes of the past, and to ensure that the U.S. cannot stop the rise of a new power on the world stage. 


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:22 | 3737487 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Yes he is a whistle blower but just not a very smart one. Still cant find a home....poor planning. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:52 | 3737655 clones2
clones2's picture

Meanwhile... The BLS reports that the remaining 27% of respondents were too gainfully employed in full-time jobs to be aware of who Edward Snowden is.

55 + 34 + 27 = 100%.... right?  Typical BLS math.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:44 | 3737861 giggler123
giggler123's picture

You'll probably find that the 34% was made up of NSA votes to hang the guy.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:15 | 3738576 Zero Hung
Zero Hung's picture

When did 34% of Americans make time to have a lobotomy? I mean, between attending all those Obozo rallies or other NSA approved events where you can go full-retard; get a red, white and blue dick in the ass; and chant USA! USA! while imploring your surveillance overlords to tear up any of the remaining freedoms, it must make for a pretty full schedule.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:43 | 3738174 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

Don't bother with fundamentals...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:52 | 3737656 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Oh wow.  Like anyone can be a Master of the Universe, against the eN SS Eh?, no less.  Too Cool.

Maybe you with your power and connections are yourself capable of devising and executing a fool-proof global plan to save him?

Or maybe you have a fool-proof plan to save at least only yourself?  What would that be?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:36 | 3737833 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Your hypothesis is based on the assumption that he placed a higher priority on his safety than on the public's need to know what "our" government is doing.

If you listened to his interviews it's clear that he's quite intelligent. More importantly, he had the courage to act on his convictions despite the consequences.

If I was a 29-year-old, I probably wouldn't be able to walk away from a $200K salary, a home in Hawaii, and a hot girlfriend (who probably brings home other strippers), especially because of the near certainty that the sheep don't care. 

IOW, he's a better man than I.  And you, I'd wager.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:57 | 3738496 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

Yes he is a whistle blower but just not a very smart one. Still cant find a home....poor planning. 

comrade DoubleG:  he had a home.  POOR GOVERNMENT!!


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:50 | 3737639 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

Huh? not sure where you're going with this one?

the fucking chinese & europeans would go nuts if they didn't have the NBA to bet on and watch.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:59 | 3737669 CPL
CPL's picture

You are hopeful and overly optimistic.  Have you seen how governments get, over and over and over and over again?  

Yet this meme about a one world government persist.  Truth is we can't organise a cat fight without that screwing up somehow.  People do way better on a regional level than think in global terms.  And it's not just the US government mind you, it's ALL of them.  All of them feeding the same 'endless' pit of world resources, 70% of the worlds resources for 5% of the population.  Of course it'll be shut down by a dozen different reasons.

There is no 'rise to power', this is the start of the unwinding, historically there are nice long lulls inbetween these collapses.  People can catch their breath, re-prioritize and re-assess.  Hopefully learn from the past and do better for the future.  It's really all the human race has.  

Pushing someone else's meme and agenda doesn't help any, you give it power by merely suggesting it as a possible future.  Which is about as likely as me teaching my cat to play piano.  Neither the time nor the resources exist to give the idea any look or energy.  Only thing people should be doing now is learning as much as they possibly can while all of the knowledge is so easy to obtain (youtube, web, libraries, schools, tradespeople).  Maybe for a new career, maybe for survival, doesn't matter what the reason is.  The fact remains it is available now with nearly zero effort other than will.

So enough with the one world gov't crap.  I just watched Calgary clean itself up in a week without any help from a government because it had it priorities straight.  The Stampede was on and NOBODY in a country that's tundra is going to miss a summer party.  Not in a million years.  If they waited for provincial and federal help, it would be arriving right now, a day late and a dollar short.  After the flood in Toronto, same thing.  Elbow grease is fixing the problem, not a government. (or the insurance companies, worthless twats the bunch of them.)

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:11 | 3737737 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

If that's the case, good on Calgary. Sounds like a place I'd like to visit.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:07 | 3737993 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Calgary = The Stampede.

I am sure no one wanted to entertain the possibility of a year without one.  Good to hear people are looking after each other.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:25 | 3738623 CPL
CPL's picture

Anytime I've gone it's a blur of BBQ, stunning cow girls of all colours and sizes, livestock, blues, jazz, country music, trucks, cars, tailgates, gun shows, trick shooting, cow roping, bull riding, buffalo hunting.

It's a good week for fun, going for business you get nothing done.  Too much to do.  Hat's to wear, boots to be fitted for.  It's a pretty big deal.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:29 | 3737807 pods
pods's picture

I will watch this play out, albeit from a distance. I think that if they wanted american society collapsed they could do it tomorrow, and not nearly as messy.  All they would have to do is adopt a balanced budget, and we would instantly realize the depression we are in.  They would not risk what they have risked if this was a setup. 

I can see how putting it out there would be of some benefit, as it would ratchet up the fear factor for us who speak negatively of the government.  But the risks are many and not all known.  What if this leads to a change in how the entire government is perceived?  

The collapse is coming, and I just do not see how this will help those in power in any way.

I really don't care if this is a setup, as it has led many to say to me "I guess you aren't crazy."

I might still be crazy, but at least I am crazy and vindicated.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:55 | 3737915 john39
john39's picture

the real powers are above national level.  they have used and disposed of empires many times throughout history...  most recently England.   The want collapse, but timing is everything, the collapse will generate the inertia necessary to lure the masses into the next stage...   deception in one tool (of many) that permits a tiny minority to rule from the shadows across many generations.  the next move has been long planned, and is not hidden from anyone who cares to look...  but, the disconnect comes when one must actually confront what they see and believe that it is actually happening.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:10 | 3738011 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

What the City of London is to England, Wall St is to America.

The British lost the reserve currency but, the City of London is still one of the biggest players to this day.

They want order out of chaos.  The outcome of the information war will determine what type of phoenix( order) will emerge from the ashes.  I for one only ask for massive decentralization.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:43 | 3738178 john39
john39's picture

fairly certain that they have the exact opposite of decentralization in mind.  but, to get the masses in a position where they can no longer resist...  has taken quite a bit of wickedness and trickery... 

they will fail for reasons they cannot understand...  but they will certainly try.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:18 | 3738052 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Hanlon's razor chief.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:32 | 3737263 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

he blows the whistle while the rest whistle in the graveyard. Some historical chapters are more bizzare than others.  

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:17 | 3737470 financial apoca...
financial apocalyptic contagion's picture

pladizow is right
without total participants cant glean shit from these polls

anyways anything like 55-34 shows a divided retarded nation anyways 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:30 | 3737259 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

CIA vs NSA seems to me to be most plausible read. Snowden as either pawn or a plant of the CIA.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:40 | 3737302 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

July 11th is tomorrow.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:46 | 3737323 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

Stay out of the NYC subway system. Just in case,

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:49 | 3737337 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

Hide your guns -- just in case

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:10 | 3737438 SilverIsKing
Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:07 | 3737724 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

That will come in handy for Boehner and all the GOP girly-men...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:18 | 3738051 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Not so neat friend, it clearly says the .22 was "poking out of her vagina." That is not safely holstered.

There are some funny comments:

Vaginal discharge



Wed, 07/10/2013 - 15:37 | 3738676 de3de8
de3de8's picture

My kind of woman!!!!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 16:47 | 3738950 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

They call her Quickdraw McGraw?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:32 | 3737541 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Cops all over the 6 train platforms this morning at Grand Central Station ... I only worry when I see National Guardsmen or K9 units, then again that usually means that something already happened.

"You can die walking your doggie!" - Al Pacino

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:31 | 3737262 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"And the purpose of this fake is?"

I don't think he's a fake and I haven't heard anyone give a good explanation for why they think he is.  The only argument I can think of is that they knew this information was going to get out and they wanted people to get used to it, but there seem like a lot better ways to do that if that was their goal.  Even if they later "show" that Snowden was a bad guy somehow (it's only a matter of time before they claim he was friends with Osama's 2nd in command or some such), I don't know how the undo the bad taste that a lot of people have in their mouths right now.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:36 | 3737278 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

It does seem more plausible that as our handlers get messier, nastier, and uglier, more of this will happen.

We should be less obsessed with whether or not he's a plant (and what genus)

and more obsessed with the utter lack of legal and political and popular response.  

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:44 | 3737316 sumo
sumo's picture

"I don't think he's a fake and I haven't heard anyone give a good explanation for why they think he is"

Same here. Snowden has balls and integrity. Unlike the gov-sucking, tyranny-worshipping cowards working overtime to tarnish him.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:54 | 3737363 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

I agree w you, Sumo, but the reason given that he's a plant is to create fear in other potential whistleblowers to not come forward.

Regardless if he's for real or not, at least the gov't/NSA/Google,Fb, Microsoft, etc spying revelations have woken up more people globally. Too bad though our controlled MSM doesn't reflect this..

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:16 | 3737461 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Yep, and to get people to self-censor all the time.  On the phone, on the web, face to face w/ friends and family...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:16 | 3737757 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

It's had the opposite effect on me. Don't see it on here much either.
Plant or isn't the time to shut up.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:27 | 3737515 seek
seek's picture

Speaking of other whistleblowers, I just heard about this one yesterday:

He's not been heard from since and no one can find him in "the system."

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:23 | 3737781 noless
noless's picture

They probly dropped some acid in his tea. Either that or a stress induced mental breakdown.

Crazy, i hadn't heard about that one.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:55 | 3737372 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

CIA funding cut... NSA funding increased. Turf war, of sorts. I guess I find it somewhat unlikely that this kid had the access he needed to get to the stuff he shared without some "help". Snowden himself could be totally legit... how he got to what he got may not be.

Or... it could be exactly as it is playing out.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:05 | 3737721 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

$4.5 BILLION annually removed from your budget, means your cronies market cap goes down 50 to 60 billion!

Those are some unhappy cronies!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:18 | 3737768 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Tell them to push the smack a little harder. Was there a poppy crop failure I missed?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 04:17 | 3744286 phaesed
phaesed's picture

So Balls and Integrity are the first place a guy goes to hide from a Government who spies on it citizens without their knowledge to the two major countries guilty of this? Anyone who doesn't question that isn't looking at the plain truth... he had further information to give to China and Russia.... problem is, they probably already knew the information and laugh at him as he seeks asylum.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:33 | 3737553 V in PA
V in PA's picture

"I don't know how the undo the bad taste that a lot of people have in their mouths right now."


A simple $600 tax rebate check, around Christmas time, should take care of that bad taste.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 16:59 | 3739003 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


The guy does the equivalent of cornholing Uncle Sam on the Jumbotron during the Superbowl and this is supposed to work some advantage to the Govt. snoops?

NSA look like the biggest illegal spying assholes on the planet, which they truly are, and this is somehow working in their favor?

Some people see triple-fake conspiracies in their bowl of Wheaties in the morning too.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:45 | 3738186 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am in the camp that Snowden is probably legit, but this article has merit and makes great points against the idea. Good post.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 01:00 | 3744077 matrix2012
matrix2012's picture

"And the purpose of this fake is?"

Dr. Tarpley has his interesting views upon this question, read it here

Webster G. Tarpley, Ph.D. - June 18, 2013

"There is ample reason to believe that the case of Edward Joseph Snowden fits into this pattern. We are likely dealing here with a limited hangout operation, in which carefully selected and falsified documents and other materials are deliberately revealed by an insider who pretends to be a fugitive rebelling against the excesses of some oppressive or dangerous government agency."


So is Gordon Duff at Veterans Today, he has his following analysis here,

also available at Gordon Duff's collection of articles at Veterans Today.


Lets wait & see whether there's any new, substantial info that Snowden will divulge in days to come... some valuable information that is REALLY NEW and CRUCIAL for the world to know... beyond the trickling dramas with some particular media...a reminiscence of Assange's wikileaks thrillers :-D

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:02 | 3737697 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

It's going to hurt on the voting, but I agree. Webster Tarpley chronicled the hallmarks of a limited hang out operation and this seems to fit the bill perfectly.


Recall Snowden was quoted some time ago that traitors should be shot in the balls ( purportedly part of his cover story?). He originally signed up for military duty to go kill brownies hoo doggee murica fukk yeah... His story is so manufactured. Not to mention Greenwald ( as with wikilieaks ) not only ignores 9-11 truth, they mock it. The fact that this story is so polished, this guy worked his way into the NSA for the express reason of whistleblowing, and left his beautiful heart broken ballerina girlfriend in paradise to become a man of intrigue.. His interviews are articulate, principled ( I chose honk kong because of their history of freedom of speech defense WHAT THE FUCK?). I'm not going to mock people who consider him a hero but mark my words, jack shit is gonna come from this save some kabuki theater. Hell, you have european countries coming out to get mad about these revalations, then on cue, steady eddie leaks that the europeans are IN BED with the US. IT is hilarity.

As for why. My sense would be this - the end result will be that this normalizes surveillance to the citizenry in the end, and just creating muddy waters. Look at the measurable good wikileaks has done? Virtually nothing.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:12 | 3737729 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Well, the no. 1 reason to be suspicious is because of that POS Assange.  I feel bad for anyone who leaked ANYTHING to the CIA, I mean Wikileaks.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:13 | 3737189 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:15 | 3737201 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

< < < Obama traitor

< < < Obama muslim

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:21 | 3737483 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

<<< Barack Obama, Jr.

<<< Frank Marshall Davis, Jr.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:39 | 3737568 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Senator Obama promised in a Woodrow Wilson International Center, Council on Foreign Relations speech on August 1, 2007:

"I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom."

"That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are."


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:10 | 3737734 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Just reading whatever the put on the teleprompter will get you in trouble!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:15 | 3737207 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

<<<<  Gov't Psy Op

<<<<  Not Gov't Psy Op

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:23 | 3737231 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

<<<<  Legitimate Whistleblower

<<<<  CIA Directed NSA Hit

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:33 | 3737270 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I could actually be both. I suppose Snowden himself might just be the pawn. CIA got him in and got him access... he may not have known it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:30 | 3737261 Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

<--- Fiat

<--- Gold

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:22 | 3737230 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Some people think Snowden's a psyop, but I think he's done too much damage to the powers that be for that to be true. Oh yeah, and now they got Adam Kokesh:

Not sure how exactly to phrase this so I don't get my door kicked in by the NeoStasi in the middle of the night... I'll simply say this government is effectively at war with the people for whom it is supposed to work. We've responded to all this shit with words for just about as long as we can without getting completely trampled into the ground, and the time when words get replaced by action seems to be approaching. The tyranny is now so in-your-face that it's impossible to ignore.

From the "Boston Strong" shelter-in-place martial law fiasco, to Hastings getting publicly wacked, to Snowden exposing the NSA assault on civil liberties, to Kokesh getting flash-banged by a group of DC goose-steppers... I just don't see how much longer this will last without something big happening.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:22 | 3737489 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Still waiting for his take on 9/11.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:18 | 3737761 justamousesquared
justamousesquared's picture

Anyone with a brain know 9/11 was not carried out in the manner the Gubbermint expect/want us to believe.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:02 | 3737953 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

I think that is going to be his ultimate disclosure.
He already verified Israel with the Computer virus thing. I remember a lot of Hedgers dissing him because he hadn't uttered the dreaded homelands involvement.
Well, now he has. It doesn't count as a disclosure, exactly.
Neither would 9/11, unless he has some harder goods.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:36 | 3737576 john39
john39's picture

kokesh is another obvious plant...  worked in psychological operations for the military...   trying to set up armed marches on washington... perfect set up to have the government crack down and the sheeple view libertarian types as insane.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:43 | 3737786 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Yes, every nail that stands out is a psyop.  What a great ethical stance...

History and current action EXPLICITLY lay out what is coming.  When one understands what is coming, and that it is DUTY to act, it can test one's patience, restraint, self-discipline as to what action to take and how to take it.  Given that we are a wide spectrum of individuals - and not yet a 100% colletive hive - DUTY will drive various individuals to various activities.  Some will be measured and wise, others will be loose cannon-like.  I hope for the former, but you know the latter will happen (Kokesh, exhibit A).

This is not rocket science.  Resistance will evolve and grow.  The State WILL persecute patriots, their blood and ours will mix and the tree of Liberty will feed.



Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:14 | 3738034 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Just remember that use of force is the government's expertise.

Yours is more likely use of your mind, your mouth, your income/wealth (buying PMs, not banking w/ TBTF).

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:18 | 3738332 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Agreed.  The good news is that Government's expertise and monopoly on Force is not exempt from Newton's Law...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:21 | 3738349 The Proletariat
The Proletariat's picture

+1;  Succinctly stated

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:24 | 3738090 giddy
giddy's picture had me until you mentioned there's an obvious false flag...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:09 | 3738284 smacker
smacker's picture


I should have thought that a nationally co-ordinated, peaceful show by large numbers right across America by people carrying their legal and UNloaded weapons would send a message. Especially if it focused on the single message of "Enough Is Enough" or some such.

...just a thought.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:27 | 3737249 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

I agree that he is a whistleblower, but if you take a job with the devil you don't get to bitch about the temperature in the office.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:37 | 3737282 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:54 | 3737360 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

He went to work for a group of murderous thugs and was surprised that it was an evil organization. He threw his life away for nothing. The number of people that didn't already know that even give a shit is almost 0. He had no impact.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:13 | 3737449 sumo
sumo's picture

Bullshit. Tell your boss in DC you need better talking points for ZH.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:41 | 3737299 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you mean when the self professed angel turns out to be the devil you throw him out of heaven

...while taking the Lord's name in vain

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:05 | 3737408 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

Some people just don't know what they don't know, until they do.

From college students joining Skull & Bones, or getting interviewed (for a job) by the CIA coming right out of college (they are young, naive and flattered by the attention) to those who join the military without an understanding of the bigger picture.. Until they do.

Pat Tillman. Bradley Manning. Adam Kokesh. USMC Maj Gen Smedley Darlington Butler. And so many more Winter soldiers. But not enough, yet.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:12 | 3737447 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

And when they do escape the programming, just think how much more programming they've received.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:26 | 3737503 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Yeah, but did these kids never read "All Quiet on the Western Front" or 1984?

You are telling me they actually believed they were fighting to defend their country, not to expand empire?   I think most recruits are thinking "I get to drive a tank/fly a drone and get paid to do it!"  and no further.  The education system (or the lack thereof) plays its part, as well.

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 01:16 | 3740513 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

He started off naive and idealistic. Took him a while to wake up but that's the same with most of us. We weren't all born cynical and disillusioned.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:11 | 3737736 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:25 | 3737788 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

My favorite to date.
Put that puppy on a shirt and ill buy it

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:29 | 3737803 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:30 | 3737790 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

There seems to be some ambiguity on ZHers opinion on this.....only 168-0 favoring whistleblower over terrurist??

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:21 | 3739716 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

In other news, the New United States National Worker's Party (NAZI) has 34% approval ratings, and Obama is recruiting former members of East Germany's STASI to help out wiith some minor 'public affairs issues'.

Obama is quoted as stating, "i really like their attitude, and their experience. The NSA is looking for a few good men, and these guys fill the bill!" Further, he noted that every new recruit will be issued a brand-new set of uniforms, complete with a Chinese-made American flag pin attached to the collar of their Brown Shirts. When pressed further, he stated, "Well, Since I am a brown man, I felt that it is my responsibility as president to pick the new uniforms. As a matter of fact, I have a new Executive Order, 16, um, 666, laying out the framework."

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:02 | 3737162 Racer
Racer's picture

How  a survey is worded directly manipulates the results

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:25 | 3737494 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Even if it is unmanipulated, this is only a snapshot.

Remember how Roosevelt won his election? US will stay out of war in Europe. A few months of brainwashing by the "free" jewish press and Hollywood later, the sheeple had forgotten what he had promised them and were glad to go to war.

34% already is quite high. And the brainwashing just has begun.

In two years the sheeple will be convinced that Snowden was evil while the NSA does no harm.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:28 | 3737520 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Lusitania in WWI and Pearl Harbor in WWII.   And what did Hermann Goering say of accusing pacifists of being unpatriotic?

Thu, 07/11/2013 - 01:26 | 3740523 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

 As Napoleon was deceiving the neighboring farmers he was also tricking his own animals.  The scapegoat was again Snowball.  "Whenever anything went wrong it became usual to attribute it to Snowball."  In fact many of the claims begin to sound ridiculous to the objective mind.  Of course, Squealer's mission is to keep everything subjective in the minds of the animals. 


George Orwell   Animal Farm

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:04 | 3737169 resurger
resurger's picture

 47% of these women do not think that the gov has gone too far!

Have men become emotional or what?!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:20 | 3737223 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Women in general are significantly less disturbed by the the thought "The NSA has records of those web sites I visited last month?"

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:26 | 3737244 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Tell them that the NSA is offering free 'remote' gynecology exams with every vibrator purchase...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:26 | 3738099 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Furthering my belief that women in general are just plain idiots...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:39 | 3738152 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Women ARE NOT idiots in any way, shape, or form...


The problematic 'dynamic' that is in play here is SOCIETY... [not women]...

HUMANS have a "fight or flight" node embedded in their psyche... The male species, in general, sways more towards FIGHT, while the FEMALE [while not afraid to FIGHT], weighs the 'FLIGHT' variable as an option [aka: live to FIGHT another day]...

Frankly ~ there's a lot of wisdom in that...

[the expression of that dynamic gets completely lost sometimes in a 'Facist Government vs. People' type of war]...


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:49 | 3739808 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Gee, Francis,

Come out and say it.

Women are pussies, and men are dicks.

Women care about having shit men buy them, and men go out and buy shit so women will give them a little every now and then.

MOSTLY, men AND women in the United States are now become docile, self-serving chattel, too self-involved on 'head-gaming' each other (and everyone else they have contact with) to give a rat's ass about what 'their perfect, non-erring, 'merkun guvment' is doing. All the crap about a 'psyche' having anything to do with reality is so mush nonsense...that whole 'fight or flight' horse excrement really has NOTHING to do with why 'women' prefer totalitarian police states (which, evidently, they seem to). It's like THIS:

Women have pussies, and prefer men (who have dicks) to do all the work. They lay back, and expect to be pleasured.

By the way, males AND females are from the SAME species, 'homo sapiens'. Keep your psychobabble factually correct, please. The stuff about a so-called 'dynamic' is only a conceptualized IDEA, not the classic definition of the adjective describing the uses of energy; and thus perverted and incorrect when describing thought processes which have no form of action involved (actually, the ignoring of this issue of surveillance is an active INACTION, a DENIAL, a WILLFUL DECISION to NOT TAKE ACTION.

It's like my engines. DYNAMIC is 'matter', so what is antimatter, 'ANTIDYNAMIC'?

WOMEN voted for Clinton, and WOMEN voted for Obama as well. Anything that makes them horny works for them, it seems (both have big dicks, reportedly, and women do ANYTHING for men with big dicks, including letting them be SPIED ON). Women WANT men to PAY ATTENTION to them, plain and simple, and if that means allowing unknown men to watch them as they shower, make phone calls, shop at the store, or do online banking, well, that's just fine with them. Haven't you ever watched a pretty, anonymous woman bend over in front of you, after she 'accidently' dropped something?

'Fight or Flight', YEAH, RIGHT!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:30 | 3737258 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

In a macho/USA-can-never-do-wrong kinda way. Cognitive dissonance.

Watched the July 4th fireworks on a NJ beach. At their conclusion, chants of "USA, USA, USA" went up.. A military, conservative town with many still not seeing the forest for the trees, conservatives brainwashed for too many years by the neocon agenda, Fox News, etc.

The men here on ZH, for the most part, are different. Critical thinkers regardless of conservative/liberal base ideology.

Thank god.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:39 | 3737289 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I didn't watch the fireworks this year. First time in 47 years.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:50 | 3737340 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

commie terrorist heathen. you know blowing things up is qunitessentially american

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:51 | 3737347 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I felt really depressed. I mean, more than usual. :(

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:55 | 3737368 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

try killing an insect

they're the smallest form of terrorist, sans the headdress

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 19:44 | 3739595 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

Yes, I watched the fireworks with deep, deep sadness.

It was different this time.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 20:55 | 3739826 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Oh, I must have missed it.

Why were there fireworks? was there some kind of celebration, like Lindsay lohan's release from rehab, or something?

I understand that they were cancelled by 'sequester', anyways.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:03 | 3737396 Forward History
Forward History's picture

You can love your country, chant "USA", and have those feelings and drivers live separate from your disapproval of what our country's political elites are currently doing.

You can love the armed forces, love the American mythos, and the ideas we were founded on, without endorsing the current government or two-party dichotomy. Go check out Dan Carlin sometime; he's a guy that gets this very well and lives it.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:30 | 3737528 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

You can love the armed forces and criticize the empire at the same time?  Really?  Tell me more.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:00 | 3737694 Forward History
Forward History's picture

Perhaps you're talking institutions and I'm talking people. I'm thinking of the people.

I know several Vietnam vets, a few Gulf War vets, and several active-duty soldiers. Most of them are as disgusted as we are with the crap that's going on. One guy, currently in Afghanistan, calls the entire operation there a sham.

By the way, I didn't vote you down.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:13 | 3737749 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

At some point I expect those in the Armed Forces to uphold their oath.  I understand the predicament they are in, and that its easy for me to sit here and type that.  

What happens if an entire company boards a plane and returns home?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:30 | 3737813 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Best to keep the legion out of Rome...sounds like the plan.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:08 | 3737998 Umh
Umh's picture

What happens if an entire company boards a plane and returns home?


You haven't been in the military by the sound of that. Where would they get a plane or a ride to the air field. They would have to actively rebel to do anything approaching actually boarding a plane and coming home.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:09 | 3738005 Forward History
Forward History's picture

They'll be branded traitors by the media and the political parties. Men of character are not in vogue these days; they carry complications and embarassments for the establishment.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:18 | 3737767 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

And yet they still accept a check in pursuit of empire...  Some people see heroes...  I see opportunists.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:07 | 3737990 Forward History
Forward History's picture

I see people getting blown to pieces and losing limbs; in your world, apparently, they all sit idly on base and dream of wars never to come.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:57 | 3738222 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I see a soldier (in a volunteer army) losing a limb no different than a machinist losing a finger...  except that when the machinist loses a finger, I don't have to pay for it through increased taxes and, further, publicly jerk him off for the trouble...  possibly going so far as to throw him a parade.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:29 | 3738109 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I see graft and theft everywhere on this site, so I don't think it's any different than other men just taking advantage of the situation presented to them.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 13:44 | 3738182 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Absolutely, however the difference is that it's socially unacceptable to state it about soldiers whereas it's perfectly acceptable to state it about politicians, banksters, etc.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 14:29 | 3738393 Forward History
Forward History's picture

Your machinist doesn't have to worry about the equipment actively trying to kill him. He doesn't have lingering PTSD from his day at work and he isn't facing a crappy VA hospital or mental institution after he loses that arm.

Stop for a second and think -- really think -- about what you're saying. You're telling us that, in your view, these men and women are voluntarily entering warzones for the phat paycheck that is roughly half that of your average city sanitation worker. Oh, and they don't even get the GI Bill anymore.

There are no other drivers? None?

I'll grant you that some do find the (limited) career opportunities a draw; what I don't get is why you have a problem with that. Misuse of the military is something we can agree on. Misrepresentation of the average enlisted or low-ranking officer I won't.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 18:09 | 3739203 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

What I am telling you is that I sincerely doubt they would do it if they were not paid.  You can dispense with the other strawmen.  Clearly, there are other drivers.

I'll challenge your notion that these other drivers (intrinsic motivations) of our soldiers are somehow noble or altruistic.  You act like the feelings of self-worth, comradery, patriotism, accomplishment, discipline, and other matters are somehow more noble than being extrinsically motivated.  The incentive and psychological benefit from money and from these intrinsic matters are hardly distinguishable...  the simple observation would be, "different strokes for different folks."  It's merely a question of personality type, not altruism.... for the latter requires an absence of self-interest, which can only be accomplished by humans sub-consciously (and without conscious thought)...  and automatons aren't particularly commendable.  [aside from the fact that, simply because one feels like he is doing good does not necessarily mean he is doing good; the road to hell is paved with good intentions].

As far as I'm concerned, the motivation for carrying water for the dollar:oil peg is irrelevant.  But, I would be all for the military trying a new recruitment program (an experiment for our gentleman's bet)...  one that is perfectly voluntary and that does not pay the soldiers anything...  I'm guessing we'll be able to count the volunteers on one hand.

In the end, the fallacy is this, we are told that servicemen are doing everything for us, the american people, but the reality is quite different.  You might be able to argue to the contrary (plausible deniability anyway) in the event there was no extrinsic benefit, however that fact pattern does not exist.

PS, if you're going to concede the issue of military "misuse," then you might as well pack your bags and go home...  the debate is over...  you cannot logically separate the soldier from the basis for war.  In other words, if the war is unjust, then so too is the soldier. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:04 | 3739850 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

The men (and, now, women) that sign up to protect and defend the Constitution Of The United States from ALL enemieis, foreign AND domestic, are to be honored and commended for their willingness to lay thier lives on the line for this ideal that we all cherish.

AT THE SAME TIME, the corruption that LEADS and FORCES these people to fight wars for the Banker-run Cartels is to be abhorred and vilified.

The KEY is educating the aforementioned IGNORANT (NOT a sin) patriots as to this critical disconnect, and supporting them in the overthrow of this Oligarchy from WITHIN; and re-instituting Constitutional Law.

Does this help explain your ignorant question, 'Herd Redirect'?

Aw, HELL, you NSA/CIA/TIA/OSS/FBI/(etcetera) people are SO EASY to spot, as you wage your psychotronic wars...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:02 | 3737704 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Compared to the authentic courage/substance of the rank and file populace we see in the Egyptians (irrespective any being "misguided";

USlessA's!  USlessA's!  USlessA's!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:04 | 3737170 thunderkiss
thunderkiss's picture

He's not just a whistleblower, he's a Patriot.  It's disappointing to hear even conservative talk show hosts, who always complain about the dangers of big government, drag this guy over the coals.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:27 | 3737251 localsavage
localsavage's picture

They are worried that we will find out how much these corporations are profting from these progams.  Those servers don't buy themselves.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:27 | 3737252 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Why are you disappointed? It's to be expected. Plenty of so-called "limited government conservatives" absolutely worship the national security state and its role as world police.

Each team believes in a different flavor of big government, but arguing that there are huge differences between Republicans and Democrats is like arguing there's a huge difference between plain vanilla and French vanilla.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:43 | 3737313 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

a different flavor of big government - very well said

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:00 | 3737389 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

McMolotov I've been waiting for you to slip up.  I mean really, French vanilla is so much more pompous than regular vanilla and smells worse.  Also, if you eat regular vanilla and French vanilla at the same time the French vanilla will come out first because French vanilla runs away faster.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:49 | 3737886 ebear
ebear's picture

It's not "French" Vanilla, it's "Freedom" Vanilla.

get it right.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:07 | 3739864 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture


McDonalds! FUCK YEAH!

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:34 | 3737271 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Conservative talk show hosts, with the possible exception of Savage, are there for the same reason liberal ones are.
To keep people in those red and blue lines. Unfortunatly Savage, however well intentioned, is a certifiable paranoid.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:44 | 3737317 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

No more wedgies.

Door number 3 please

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:58 | 3737385 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

There are conservative talk show hosts????

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:09 | 3739871 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:06 | 3737413 Forward History
Forward History's picture

The worst are guys like Eric Erickson, who simultaneously decry government encroachment into civil liberties, then turn around and beat the drums over Israel, the Middle East, etc. The cognitive disconnect between understanding interconnected causalities is quite breathtaking.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:05 | 3737173 Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Unfortunately today, the only percentages that matter is the 1% of the 1% who make all the key decisions.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:06 | 3737176 ak_khanna
ak_khanna's picture

All Iraqis and Afghans who launch attacks on US forces for invading their country for no rhyme or reason are terrorists. Similarly all Americans who expose the attempts of the political administration to curb human rights and privacy of the majority of the population are branded as traitors.

Welcome to new age democracy.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:06 | 3737177 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

34% say he is a traitor.  34% of Americans are fucking clueless.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:14 | 3737193 colin
colin's picture

34% of america are goverment tax thief 'workers'

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:32 | 3737548 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Wonder if they knew the truth that their pension and benefits will be massively devalued before they ever receive them if they would change their tune?

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:13 | 3737195 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

34%+ ONLY live due to dependance on the Stasi state. 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:43 | 3737311 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

50% of all Americans are below average in intelligence - by definition. Nearly all Americans are "educated" by the state (public schools) and Hollywood/Madison Avenue. Stupid Americans are clearly an advantage to somebody.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:45 | 3737321 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Justin Bieber 

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:54 | 3737654 V in PA
V in PA's picture

I heard that 93% of drivers rate themselves as above average in their driving skills. Chew on that.


Wed, 07/10/2013 - 10:58 | 3737351 socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

Over a decade later, I think almost 1/3 of Americans still think Iraq had WMD and was an imminent threat to the U.S. So the 34% figure is probably the minimum one can expect at this point.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 12:35 | 3737834 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

I think Iraq had WMDs.
I think Rumsfeld still has the receipt.
I think the war was to scrub the serial numbers off the canisters.
I still think the war was bullshit.

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 21:29 | 3739924 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

Have they found any of those carbon nanotubes yet? The Chinese (oops, scrap dealers in the CONUS) are paying good money for clean carbon!

If you want to find the Iraqui WMD shells, you need to ask the Kurds (according to the MSM).

How 'bout all those 60,000 Lybian MANPADS that we 'gloriously liberated' in that 'Arab Spring' in Hitlery's garden of neat ideas?

it's 'all going to plan'.

EGYPT, well, not quite yet.

IRAN, well, this is the FOREGONE CONCLUSION, isn't it? THEY have had WMD's ever since GE built those two nuclear reactors for them, under the SHAH, back in the mid-70's...

As for RUMSFEILD, and the MISSING 2.3 TRILLION DOLLARS at the Pentagon on September 10, 2001, well, I just don't know. I think he was caught up in the shitstorm, and went along until he couldn't stomach it any longer.


WHICH nation is the only one to ever use nuclear weapons on it's enemy in time of war?

A) North Korea


C) Iran

D) Grenada

E) Lybia

F) 'F' is for the FUCKERS that control the money supply in the 'CONUS'.


I have discovered the enemy, and it is US...

Wed, 07/10/2013 - 11:29 | 3737521 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Historians think only 15%-20% of the colonial population supported the British in the Revolutionary War, but the British were not handing out goodies to over half the population.

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