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Smoking Kills (Your Earnings)

Tyler Durden's picture





 

"Even one cigarette is enough to trigger a smoking wage differential," is among the findings of a new (Federal Reserve sponsored) research study that shows smokers on average earn 19% less than non-smokers ($13.101 vs $16.261). Perhaps most interestingly, the researchers note that once you have been a smoker, you may as well smoke a pack a day as the differential is little affected by frequency. Once again, taxpayer money well-spent by the researchers at the Fed... Given these findings (and PhD logic) we suspect the Fed will introduce Quantitative Wheezing - aimed at 'rebalancing' the smoking imbalances... and boosting smokers' income by 24%...

 

 

Abstract:

It is well known that smoking leads to lower wages. However, the mechanism of this negative relationship is not well understood. This analysis includes a decomposition of the wage gap between smokers and nonsmokers, with a variety of definitions of smoking status designed to reflect differences in smoking intensity. This paper finds that nearly two-thirds of the 24 percent selectivity-corrected smoking/nonsmoking wage differential derives from differences in characteristics between smokers and nonsmokers. These results suggest that it is not differences in productivity that drive the smoking wage gap. Rather, it is differences in the endowments smokers bring to the market along with unmeasured factors, such as baseline employer tolerance. In addition, we also determine that even one cigarette per day is enough to trigger the smoking wage gap and that this gap does not vary by smoking intensity.

 

Full paper below...

Smoking Costs

 


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Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

I'm seeing discrimination here.

Smoker and non-smoker wages should be equal.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:35 | Link to Comment SIOP
SIOP's picture

+1

 

I didnt know ZH was a smoke free web site.  huh, I must of missed the memo.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:04 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

I can't stomach reading it: somebody please tell me the Fed economists didn't conclude that smoking causes poverty. Of course it correlates with it and it ain't cheap, but causes it? Nope. It's a great example of a lurking variable. Did they say it was causal?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:31 | Link to Comment 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Based on working smokers I see at my place of employ, they work about 24% less though so thats seems about right.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:36 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

Lol, exactly as i stated below.

Even if/when i was the hardest most skilled worker in a shop the only thing management would ever notice was me on a smoke break.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:40 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:08 | Link to Comment economics9698
economics9698's picture

Smoking is a symptom, the cause is low IQ. 

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Really?

Mark Twain would have objected and so would Keith Richards ;-)

http://www.jusonline.nl/smokers/gallery01.html

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:44 | Link to Comment bonin006
bonin006's picture

There are always exceptions

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 02:46 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I put in an 8 hour minimum, usually 9, and my smoke breaks are my own fucking time. Deal with it.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 16:09 | Link to Comment Umh
Umh's picture

If you have the kind of job or boss where the depth of the butt prints in your chair determines work done you should really just go ahead and shoot yourself.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

I've been "let go" from a job because the owner quit and couldn't stand the smell.

It's pretty strait forward, if the majority At a place don't smoke, especially those in management positions, it counts against you, experienced this across the board.

Smoking is seen as low class, it brings down the reputation of a business.

It doesn't help that nicotine is the go to carcinogen to hate on, even though there are a myriad of other pollutants that will kill you just the same, especially in manufacturing.

Smokers are viewed as unintelligent, dirty, low class, cynical and disrespectful, no matter their actual attributes, it's societaly self reinforcing.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:47 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

I've been "let go" from a job because the owner quit and couldn't stand the smell.

I've quit my job because the owner smelled like a rotten fish sandwhich that was farted on and I could smell him over the cig I was smoking.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:10 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Nicotine does NOT cause cancer it's an akaloid stimulant like caffeine and theobromine

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:34 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Not sure what anyone is bitching about.  If you want tabacco in North America it grows everywhere.  It's a weed and a really good pest repellant.  

The lurking varible is tax btw.  Why do you think Native smokes can be sold at $20 a carton (with a very tidy profit), versus $80-90 for a carton (Canuck bux).  A pack of smokes is 11-12 bucks here.  Doesn't stop anyone from smoking though.   

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 01:27 | Link to Comment El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Hmm, I paid .25 Cents a pack in 1974 while stationed in Germany.  I quit in 1986 when the stupid things reached .90 a pack.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Blammo
Blammo's picture

Prison inmates have a higher rate of smoking than people at large....Ergo Smoking causes crime!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment ACP
ACP's picture

Depends on what you're smoking:

Tobacco = BAD (evil smoker)

Greenbud = GOOD (poor victim of injustice)

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:43 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

Life choices should not influence your wage which is what the fed is suggesting.

I want this injustice righted.

This is the equivalent of the lynchings of African Americans (paraphrasing Al Sharpton on just about any topic)

Dey be sendin smokas to da back a da bus

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:08 | Link to Comment McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Discrimination against those who smoke is why I choose to huff paint thinner instead.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

And people who huff paint thinners are entitled to the same wages as those who don't smoke as well.

Why discriminate against paint huffers?

Injustice.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:03 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

This is so fucked up....blue collar maybe...white collar would be +50%

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:08 | Link to Comment infinity8
infinity8's picture

Well, I'm sure as hell not in the mood to read 32 pages to see if there's a nut. But, same goes for fatties and bad credit scores anymore. "you DO realize we're paying a whole EIGHT dollars an hour, right?"

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:47 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'm always suspicious about "correlation presupposes causation" articles.  Way too many other factors involved.   Sure, reading the entire paper would be fine, but I'd rather sit on the front porch and watch my grass grow.   Even if the paper drew a different conclusion, the title of the ZH article did not.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

Poor people more likely to smoke than wealthy people.  They should have just called me instead...

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:33 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Well, they would have just spent the money buying more bonds, so maybe it was well spent.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:49 | Link to Comment tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

On a positive note, another Federal Reserve report shows that Federal Reserve officials who can swallow Wall Street bankers come without gagging can be expected to earn $10 million more over their post-Fed Reserve careers than Federal Reserve come-gaggers.

 

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:33 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Next up, the wine vs tapwater wage gap.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:04 | Link to Comment ACP
ACP's picture

Or better yet, wine vs beer.

Wine = Liberal fiat investor

Beer = Barbaric gold owner

 

Just a generalization...I like a good wine (or whine) on occasion...

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yes, the barbarians at the gate...lol.

My wife drinks wine (Merlot...akkk, pffft) I'm more of a beer/liquor guy.

This may be a good thread to break out the 1800 Silver, its raining, who'll do a shot with me? ;-)

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:49 | Link to Comment mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

took a half day been dribking jack and rolling cigs since 1 in between changing diapers and running through the spinkler with my younger son...drinkers, smokers, make better workers...welfare mothers make obama president.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Hookers vs Housewives

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:01 | Link to Comment Incubus
Incubus's picture

Hookers are cheaper in the long run. And you can get a new one everytime.

 

 

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 16:09 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

"Even one cigarette is enough to trigger a smoking wage differential," is among the findings of a new (Federal Reserve sponsored) research study that shows smokers on average earn 19% less than non-smokers ($13.101 vs $16.261).

 

Simple explanation for this, the smokers who are still going at it are lower class, and do not give a whit.Middle/Upper Middle income folks that USED to smoke, are more educated.The reason for the earnings discrepancy is obvious.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Beer vs Hard Liquor

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:38 | Link to Comment I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Why do Lesbians drink excessively

Worthy of a paper and a couple fo million dollars

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:41 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Butch-type lesbians or the sleek stripper-type lesbians?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:26 | Link to Comment Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

nmewn the preferred nomenclature is lipstick lesbians.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:41 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Áhah, thanks.

Just sayin, if I'm forced to finance an artistic something I'd at least like to be able to appreciate the finer points of the end product.

Warthogs in flannel just doesn't do much for me ;-)

Forward!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment bonin006
bonin006's picture

for which ones?

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 06:28 | Link to Comment goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

I like girls who like girls

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:39 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I have a fuckface boss that first decided we couldn't drink beer at work anymore.... than that motherf.. decided we couldn't drink during breaks either AND NOW HE'S LIMITING OUR SMOKE BREAKS DOWN TO ONLY 5 A DAY!

this shit is getting pretty racist if you tell me... even jews never had it this bad...

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:41 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

Bullshit!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:42 | Link to Comment goldenbuddha454
Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:44 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

Smoking gives babies cancer. Ban it.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Chump
Chump's picture

Faux liberal counterpoint: dead babies are good.  Encourage smoking.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:46 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It was the progressives who gave us Prohibition. They're societys nazis, obsessed with controlling every aspect of your life.  Bloomy and moochele are modern examples of progressive nazi's. Wait until they connect any behavior that they don't like to our national Obamacare costs. There's nothing they can't justify banning.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:55 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

And salt can kill, if you don't get enough of it.

Doc!...gimme a saline drip, I've been sweatin alot ;-)

http://kfor.com/2013/07/09/cdc-admits-long-standing-error-there-is-no-benefit-in-reducing-salt/

 

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:06 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

Water can kill (hyponatremia) and you can also drown. Children drown regularly, often while being innocent and playful around pools.

Ban it. Save the lives of our future children by banning water everywhere.

According to European Union officials water doesn't prevent dehydration anyway.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8897662/EU-bans-clai...

Ban water, it kills, and is a menace to society,

 

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:13 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ban five gallon buckets!

How many more toddlers have to die?

If we can save just one, it will have been worth it ;-)

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

I agree.

Anything that kills children should be banned.

Over exposure to sun can cause melanoma. Ban sun light.

Ban water and sunlight and save the lives of children.

...and rubber balls. Rubber balls are killing children. Ban them.

"Girl, 7, choked to death in freak accident after rubber ball bounces into her mouth"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2030348/Girl-7-choked-death-frea...

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:52 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Nobody appreciates good sarcasm anymore.

+1 ;-)

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 00:24 | Link to Comment BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

Really?? Please explain. When they are in the womb? Nonsense. After they are born? Maybe. But so will deodorant, beef, diet pop, sun, electric power lines, cell phones, car emissions, barbecue, spinach (natural carcinogen), etc, etc. And my favorite: if you live long enough it's almost guaranteed you will get it regardless of your lifestyle. My suggestion would be to worry a little more about your baby's country than the smoker in the room.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:45 | Link to Comment Whiner
Whiner's picture

Smoke, smoke that cigarette...smoke, smoke, smoke til you can't get another breath. Meet Saint Peter at the Golden Gate. Tell him he'll just have to wait; I've got to have another cigarette." I smoke but never inhale.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:45 | Link to Comment starman
starman's picture

Doesnt Osama I mean Obama smokes?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

"Edith, get me a spreadsheet of all smokers who have segregated accounts with us. Since they like smoke, just wait till they see the explosive combustion in their accounts after I spark our Greek notes."

- John Corzine

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:55 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I see the number of ZH articles increasing with each week.  Some I don't even bother reading.

What's the end-goal here?  To become the Huff-Post of Econo/Biz/Fin/Health News and sell out?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:59 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

The Fed sponsored this study. Oh wait, you said you don't bother reading but you are going to go ahead and post that comment. 

Never mind.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:12 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

You're funny.  In an ironic, tongue-in-cheek sort of way.  But if you read my text with a lawyer's precision, you'd have noticed that I said:  "Some I don't even bother reading". 

I did not state or imply was made if I read this article, although I did.  Nor did I comment about the contents of this article.  I merely made a general statement about the ever-increasing number of daily articles on ZH -- if in a bit of sarcastic tone.  That aside, surely I can't be the only one who has noticed this trend?  And has perhaps also wondered what's behind it?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:48 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Fair enough. I think there is more collapse stuff out there to be aggregated than there used to be. The articles like this, I almost always give it to them that there is something they are asking us to consider about what is being presented. I may not agree it is worth posting, but I can usually see "the why." There are so many components contributing to the climate that the pace of collapse is accelerating and being acknowledged that there are many, many things that IMHO the Tylers do not post about that I think they should. I find small things in my local news paper for instance that I'd love to post as proof of the decline showing up in the life of my city. I'd be a pest if I forwarded it all. My city paper actually wrote an article defending why our city is not going to end up like Detroit. The thing is, why write that article in the first place??

I have seen others wonder too, I give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't read it all either, but I adore that they are on it daily, pointing to the problems, and to others who are doing the same.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:56 | Link to Comment IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

I've made some of my best business decisions while out on a "smoke break." Me employer knows that. My employees respect that. Sometimes they fear me when they know I'm out smoking more than usual. It means something is going down in my evil little smoker's brain. 

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I call em thinkin sticks.

Or lung darts.

pods

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:53 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I'm glad somebody said it.  I have a smoke when I'm stuck on something.  Just 10 minutes to clear my head (stop thinking about the problem directly and let my brain think about it indirectly/subconsciously) and the answer usually presents itself.  No, the nicotine doesn't make me smarter (it just makes me feel better), but the act of physically taking a break at a critical mental juncture just seems to be an efficient way to get the most out of our brains. 

Now, if you're a drone punching out widgets on an assembly line, nobody cares what you think- just keep working till the whistle blows.  If, however, you are in a profession where you are paid primarily to figure things out and come up with the best answer, perhaps employers should realize that there's a little more going on inside a smokers brain than just wondering when they can get their next fix.

As for my wages.... I don't know what to tell you.  If I ever work for a "wage" I guess I'll let you know.  I worked an hourly job ONCE in my life.  That was enough.  I'd rather just work for myself and earn it for what value I provide.  Just suits me better.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:05 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I can tell you right now, of the people who actually produce something in my office, we are down to two dippers, one smoker and two non-smoker/dippers.

All the laid off people were non-tobacco users...all of them.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:56 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I had a friend who learned to smoke so that she could get cigarette breaks at work. I feel strongly that there is a lesson in moral hazard, human nature, and our economy in there somewhere.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Demand=tobacco farmers. Farmers spend their earnings on tractors, fuel, seed, labor, homes/land & taxes.

Moral of the story, don't hang out with every smoker you encounter, they may be some sort of addict looking to rob you for a fix, like a non-smoking banker ;-)

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:40 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

#getnewfriends

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Pancho Villa
Pancho Villa's picture

What is the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta doing funding a study of smoking vs. wages? How is that related to monetary policy?

Maybe they should fund a study of how useless federally funded studies contribute to the budget deficit.

Also, does smoking cause low wages or do low wages cause smoking? Or are smoking and low wages both caused by some other factor?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:02 | Link to Comment e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Wonder what's the differential between hopium and non-hopium smokers.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:04 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Employers have no say in if I should or could smoke or not. If they don't like it they can kiss my ass and they won't get any benefit I have to offer.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:04 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Fed blows smoke...evil bastards

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:06 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Smoke and Mirrors from the Fed.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

FUCK THE NWO!

now who's got a light?

 

all of the data points are Imposed by an increasingly complex system of analytics that quantize the individual and thus ensure that the individual is made to absorb the maximum cost possible and in ways that only a handful of decades ago were unthinkable and essentially impossible

im tired of living under a cost externalizing machine but this is the result of forced scarcity paradigms engineered to maintain control over populations

we are rapidly approaching a time when governments and corporations (fascism) will be open about what they already have, namely, total situational awareness. it will Never look like THX-1138 but is effectively already equivalent in many respects

http://youtu.be/IRFsoRQYpFM

inb4 Agenda 21 dovetail

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

This stuff really makes me laugh. First, smoking does not increase health care costs. (Just google NEJM study on long term impacts of smoking on health care costs. Conclusion: if everyone quit smoking we would see a reduction in first few years, but they would then end up higher as people would live longer. Because the vast majotity of everyone's lifetime costs come in the last few months of life, and everyone dies from something. Bottom line: THE LONGER YOU LIVE THE MORE YOU COST. ) Second, the productivity argument is total bullshit. I have staff that are smokers that accomplish double what non-smokers do in the same position, some with that have more impressive education backgrounds, and they are rewarded accordingly. Third, all this business on companies encouraging healthy lifestyles has one objective: get some short term expense savings for the company until I can put them on the government dole to pay for the really big stuff.

There's no good reason to smoke. But everyone should stop crucifying smokers. They certainly don't offend me, I can just find someplace where I don't have to be exposed to it. And the taxes they pay is probably more than any incremental cost from their activities.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:25 | Link to Comment Croesus
Croesus's picture

@ Beanus Countus:

" Bottom line: THE LONGER YOU LIVE THE MORE YOU COST."

 

This is exactly why smoking hasn't been outlawed. It's ironic that those terrible Nazis were the first to identify the link between smoking and cancer, and were opposed to it, while OUR benevolent leaders encouraged it.

 

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:51 | Link to Comment BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

You are probably on to something there. Smokers do tend to die a little earlier. But many of them will be missed more than the nerds that live to be 100 and continue to tell people what is good for them. Sadly, smokers are admonished for a personal decision that kills most at a slightly higher speed than merely breathing oxygen. Shit, like getting in a car is less of a risk of reducing one's lifespan. But the people in power (government) get that power from convincing America they are out for their best interest. Voting for these assholes feels kinda like hiring an undertaker to be the obstretician for the birth of my kids.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

And in the same breath these fucking asshole morons want to legalize pot.

 

Because smoking cigs is bad for your health, but smoking pot makes you healthier.

 

Get me off this planet.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:39 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

We smokers have determined non smokers bitching is hazardous to your health.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:46 | Link to Comment Burticus
Burticus's picture

Oh, thank you Creature from Jekyll Island for pertecting me from mythelf for my own thafety.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 20:52 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I'm not, nor ever plan to be a regular smoker. (to each his/her own though) I love the aroma, taste, ambiance, of 'fine cigars'.

 Cohiba, Punch, Partigas, Romeo & Juliette', and many more limited, finely crafted examples.

 12 Most Expensive Cigars in the World - Refined Guy

   Why is it that if disclosed, I could have my insurance rates double on the mention of tobacco consumption, when I smoke a dozen cigars a year, and the assclown next to me smokes 2 packs a day?

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

I make "many several" times the average hourly amount shown in the graph for non-smokers (as a smoker of 30 years), and my boss makes much, much more, and he smokes like a chimney! So, how is it "well known that smoking leads to lower wages," again? Show tits or GTFO!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  That was a great post. It exemplifies the disparites of legislation.

  For example; I like expensive cigars, and your boss likes to smoke frequently.

 Myself, and your boss have incomes that allow the occasional excesses. (how do you tax that?) I'll tell ya how!

 Both your boss, and myself get fucked sideways, for building a revenue stream! (I like your Boss)

 

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:43 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Non-tobacco users like the benefits (to them financially) of using the state to tax unfairly those people whose "lifestyle choices" are different from there own.

I've never had one thank me for picking up their tax slack, why would they?...they're cool with it.

First they came for the smokers, then they came for the burger eaters, then they came for soda drinkers, then they came for the candy eaters, then they came for the alcohol drinkers, then they came for the mind numbed, low sodium pretzel & broccoli eaters sitting over there farting quitely in the corner cheering it all on.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:50 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  nmewns' quote: " I've never had one thank me for picking up their tax slack, why would they?"... 

   Then they came for our children...   Nice post nmewn.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:10 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

They slowly pick us apart, like some evil little child, pulling the wings & the legs off an insect.

Its really incredible more don't see it Yen.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:15 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   nmewn, The answer you're looking for wouldn't come close to satisfying your demands... (or mine)

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:22 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

It's like a thorn in your mind, Neo.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:45 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Dear Nmewn,
May I profess my deep profound thanks for so dutifully picking up our egregious tax disparity. My I offer my sincere apology for all of us non smokers who have never acknowledged your sacrifice. We are truly a smug haughty lot that should be ashamed for not offering a simple thanks! I feel dirty and embarrassed. Why you don't rise up and slaughter us all is a testament to your tolerant characters. Perhaps this is why so much is asked of you. We know you have strength to carry on no matter what is thrown your way. Ok, now I'm getting a bit too nauseous to continue. But since feelings only matter today I was trying to make you feel better about your unfair plight. I'm sure it does! ;-)

I have never voted for a sin tax realizing the inherent flaws in the entire premise. My libertarian leanings would never accept it. As one who's labor's fruits have been bled away for years by the state, may I offer my sympathy. But if we could just somehow tax all those STDs I diagnose every day we may just yet balance Cali's budget.....right?

Miffed;-)

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 07:55 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its amazing what the state defines as a sin or crime these days.

Government lotteries for example.

People who are on the very low end of the wage scale play it with great expectations and frequency at millions to one odds...lol. Let one of them win and government offers them an odd Hobson's Choice...roughly half of their winnings now or a steady drip of future sheep shearings, errr ahhh, losing player proceeds.

But we can't have private internet cafe's, you see that is a crime, a sin.

Some would say, competition ;-)

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:51 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

We were at the horse races last year and as we were leaving we saw 2 men walking around picking up tickets on the ground and stuffing them in bags. I made a comment to my husband that was so sad. The hope of possiblely getting a few bucks. He laughed his head off. Why my dear you are looking at some serious winners offsetting the godawful taxes they face. You'd be doing it too if we had won. Kinds gave me a different perspective.

Miffed;-)

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 11:27 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its true.

There are also people trackside who cash winning tickets (over $600.00) for a flat fee of the take, so the real winners aren't identified to the IRS, for any number of reasons. Picking up the losing tickets makes a nice offset.

I used to play the dogs at Derby Lane ;-)

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 12:06 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I've had a few friends invite me to the dog races in Mexico but I never went. Wish I had, now it's just too scary to go down there (thanks to our illustrious country).

When I was 16 a guy came in to Arby's when I was working at the counter. He had a racing form with him and I was curious about it. He offered to take me to the track that afternoon and teach me how to read the form and how to choose a good horse. I jumped at it. He picked me up at work ( yes, I was that fucking insane at the time) and we went to the races. I took home $50 that day which was a damn fortune for someone who made 1.90/ hr. mr miffed and I went again with him the next week. We try to go to Del Mar a few times every year, just for fun. If we pay for the trip we're happy but we've made a few great calls. The kids always laugh at my strategy. Conformation is important to me so I must review my horse after I have evaluate its stats ( look for a horse that comes from behind...Mine That Bird style) Horse can't be too sweaty, have butt foam or too nervous ( has already run its race) and the key winning factor : take a dump before entering the gate!

Miffed;-)

Sun, 07/14/2013 - 16:53 | Link to Comment fiatmasochist
fiatmasochist's picture

A chlamydia tax?     things that make you go hmmmmmm

new rabbit hole to explore

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

This is not economics. It's sociology that has something to do with wages.

People who smoke are generally working lower paying jobs. Solved it for you. Smoking doesn't in itself cause you to get paid less unless the person hiring you asks you for that information. The advanced problems in mathematical economics course teaches that (you know the one that the sociologists don't take because it involves game theory).

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:59 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

+1

Had an interesting thing happen in the office today (listed corporation).

Seems the higher ups are most fascinated with productivity and reports, lots & lots of reports. Things must be tracked to the inth degree in order for guys with ties to feel self important afterall.

Well, the edict was issued from on high, that a new report would be run off an existing program (which all the productive have to use) to get better reports.

Yes, IT crashed it, for most of the morning, no access for the productive.

Anyone on high asking how much productivity was lost in the drive for "enhanced" reports?

Doubtful.

I long for the day when I call IT and their first response is NOT, "Well, its not supposed to do that."

Well yeah, asshole, you're the one who did it or is supposed to not allow it to happen, now why did it?

I think they all smoke ;-)

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:18 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

Sounds like it is time to filet a bass on your desk while you explain the value of TPS reports to management - then, watch it burn, baby!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:40 | Link to Comment Tulpa
Tulpa's picture

Bingo.  The Fed isn't very good at that whole causation vs. correlation thing.

Less educated people have lower incomes and higher rates of smoking.  That's sufficient to explain the data.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:36 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

But surely ice cream eating and PM buying do cause boating accidents.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 21:54 | Link to Comment WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

one of the greatest disservice to the american public was the selling out by the states and feds to the tobacco mob, the up front settlement of a few shekels so that an industry could continue to sell a product ad infinitum that NEVER would clear fda standards today (because it KILLS people who use it and, p.s., is ADDICTIVE) simply because that industry had been killing people in the past.

quid status pro quo ad pukem.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:03 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

Ehemm! We don't use shekels in the US. We use Federal Reserve IOUs that can never be paid back. Israel uses shekels. Are you claiming they are the same? Please tell us more Wallowa Mountain Man.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:07 | Link to Comment WallowaMountainMan
WallowaMountainMan's picture

moar!

:)

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:13 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

ROTFLMAO!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:03 | Link to Comment Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Ok I ignored it when you added up all the eaters in a recent article ignoring overap. The majority of smokers these days will come from a lower income earning group. The lower your income, the least positive your health incomes (don't have a link but I know I can find one).  There are so many other other variables that could be at play.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:05 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

Useless eaters!

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:17 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Useless Egyptian > water carriers>

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:19 | Link to Comment Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

It just bugs me when stats are used to promote some pov in such a flagrant way. The pov may be valid but do it right.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:34 | Link to Comment Dyhana
Dyhana's picture

When I was actually working full-time I made a decent salary for a rural area. I smoke and I like to smoke. (I'll throw in a fuck you Bernanke).

Interestingly, nicotine itself has many documented benefits. Increased concentration for one, and studies show it prevents Alzheimer's. It's the 400+ other chemicals that re added to commercial tobacco that are the truly evil culprits. I know when I switched to organic cigarettes years ago that I went through some terrible withdrawals... I am assuming from the OTHER chemicals. My sister had the same experience. We were highly addicted to the tobacco "cocktail" that big tobacco spent decades fine tuning.

Anyway, my organic cig consumption is less than half of what my camel light consumption was.

On another note, heard that Obamacare is planning to have smokers pay more for their insurance. So why don't consumer's of high fructose corn syrup have to pay more? Studies show a link between that and diabetes. Or how about alcohol consumption that is related to heart disease?

Honestly, where will it end? I am so damn sick and tired of .gov telling me what I can or cannot do with my own body. Or fining me for it.

Smoking doesn't CAUSE lung cancer, (google it) it can trigger it in some people just as the sun can trigger melanomas in some people. I know two people who died of lung cancer who never smoked, nor had a job around toxic chemicals.

You can mitigate your chances of the detrimental effects of smoking by choosing not to do so. You can stay out of the sun, stay away from HFCS, don't ride a bike, a horse, skydive, drink, drive a car, give birth, or go for a walk. I'll take my chances, it's my body and I'm not hurting anyone, except maybe myself, no one needs to protect me. If i fall off my horse tomorrow and die, so be it, my choice to ride.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:53 | Link to Comment plane jain
plane jain's picture

Interestingly, nicotine itself has many documented benefits. Increased concentration for one, and studies show it prevents Alzheimer's. It's the 400+ other chemicals that re added to commercial tobacco that are the truly evil culprits. I know when I switched to organic cigarettes years ago that I went through some terrible withdrawals... I am assuming from the OTHER chemicals. My sister had the same experience. We were highly addicted to the tobacco "cocktail" that big tobacco spent decades fine tuning.

 

Yep.  agree with you there.

OTOH I'm fine with taxing producers/consumers for the sale/use of products known to be detrimental to public health.  

HFCS seems pretty clearly to be toxic to the liver.  Linked with diabetes, potentially long term and very expensive to manage.  Tax that shit.  

Wouldn't tie it to health insurance costs though, just a straight up tax on the front end.  

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:00 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

Detrimental to the "public health?" I thought you couldn't smoke in airplanes, hotels, offices, or any other public place any more? Where is this public place that I have missed that requires a tax?

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 00:05 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You are very correct that smoking doesn't cause cancer. It is much more likely the chemicals in the cigarettes that are causing it. Things like formalin which are carcinogenic. Lung cancers are rising rapidly in non smokers ( various theories why) non smokers get more lethal forms of lung cancer and die sooner.

Where you are incorrect is that there is no definitve connection between sun exposure and melanoma. Basal cell and squamous cell carcinoma have been. Melanoma often appears in areas never even exposed to sun and has been linked to low vit D levels. The sun is incredibly healthful and exposure without burning is protective. If you vit d levels are below 30 you are at a much higher risk for all forms of cancer. Vit d regulates cell death. Cancer is unchecked prolific cell growth. Get your vit d checked. If its low take vit D3 until it is at least 50. It will cost you about 25cents a day. I take 5000 iu daily. I get my self checked for skin cancer yearly and never have had any. I am in the sun all the time and have somewhat of a tan year round. I have friends who slather on sunscreen and cover up and have basal cells removed all the time. Good luck

Miffed;-)

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 08:46 | Link to Comment tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

OT miffed -- sorry for the late reply

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 10:27 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Switched to ecigs a month ago. Better flavor, same nicotine and I got my lung functionality back in spades, and my smell and sense of smell got much much better.

And it's way fucking cheaper long term (until the govt taxes nicotine directly)

Pure liquid nicotine will make one hell of an imvestment. A 30ml bottle is two cartons of ciagrettes.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:34 | Link to Comment Dyhana
Dyhana's picture

When I was actually working full-time I made a decent salary for a rural area. I smoke and I like to smoke. (I'll throw in a fuck you Bernanke).

Interestingly, nicotine itself has many documented benefits. Increased concentration for one, and studies show it prevents Alzheimer's. It's the 400+ other chemicals that re added to commercial tobacco that are the truly evil culprits. I know when I switched to organic cigarettes years ago that I went through some terrible withdrawals... I am assuming from the OTHER chemicals. My sister had the same experience. We were highly addicted to the tobacco "cocktail" that big tobacco spent decades fine tuning.

Anyway, my organic cig consumption is less than half of what my camel light consumption was.

On another note, heard that Obamacare is planning to have smokers pay more for their insurance. So why don't consumer's of high fructose corn syrup have to pay more? Studies show a link between that and diabetes. Or how about alcohol consumption that is related to heart disease?

Honestly, where will it end? I am so damn sick and tired of .gov telling me what I can or cannot do with my own body. Or fining me for it.

Smoking doesn't CAUSE lung cancer, (google it) it can trigger it in some people just as the sun can trigger melanomas in some people. I know two people who died of lung cancer who never smoked, nor had a job around toxic chemicals.

You can mitigate your chances of the detrimental effects of smoking by choosing not to do so. You can stay out of the sun, stay away from HFCS, don't ride a bike, a horse, skydive, drink, drive a car, give birth, or go for a walk. I'll take my chances, it's my body and I'm not hurting anyone, except maybe myself, no one needs to protect me. If i fall off my horse tomorrow and die, so be it, my choice to ride.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 22:48 | Link to Comment treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

I just thought about something - thanks to Dyhana. So sorry for all my drivel before, but this is important! Nobody has asked how they actually get this data!

UPC Symbol -> CC # -> ID'd Account # -> ID'd SSN -> Fusion Center in Utah -> IRS -> Treasury Dept -> Federal Reserve Bank

SCARY!!! We are all potential Obamacare smoker terrorists! But, no need to fear the govt if you haven't done anything "wrong." They are from the government and they are here to help.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

If smoking causes lower earnings it probably means you won't be able to save anything for retirement. So its a good thing that smoking limits the length of time you will actually be retired.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:34 | Link to Comment Incubus
Incubus's picture

I value my lungs, and my blood's ability to carry oxygen to my muscles.

Wanna go for a run, you smokers? 

 

How's that CHF workin' out for ya?  Seriously, there should be a license to smoke, and you should go through an education course before you get your license.  If you still want to smoke after you're educated, then more power to you. It's your life.

Fri, 07/12/2013 - 23:56 | Link to Comment Dyhana
Dyhana's picture

That is a good point, many smokers don't exercise.. Yet, I run, ride, ski, swim, and hike. Always have. I feel it fights the detrimental effects to stay really active. Maybe I'm wrong, I am sure that I will find out eventually! But so far between diet and exercise smoking hasn't seemed to affect me much. I did read that vaping is a great way to get off inhaling burning combustibles, while still enjoying the benefits of nicotine.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 03:46 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

You're 100% correct.

I'm a Surveyor. That involves 1 or 2 days a week in the Office doing calcs or drafting and the remainder out in the field, walking often times in difficult terrain and carrying a decent load. I'm also a smoker.

36 Years old yet my latest medical (a requirement before working remotely) showed a lung capacity of 7.5 litres and a 'lung age' of 23. I half joked to the Doc that maybe I should keep smoking - he said something along the lines of "well no wouldn't say that, but it's not as uncommon as you may think for outdoors physical workers who smoke to get decent test results".

Once again I think it comes down to a few simple rules: stay active, fit,  and eat healthily and your body can do amazing things. Fatties are only fatties because energy in is greater than energy out - I'll eat twice what a fatty who sits around doing fuck all does yet stay lean because (shock horror) I actually burn it off.

As for people complaining about the smell; I personally can't stand the stench of strong perfumes and deoderants. Irritates my nose and makes me almost nauseous. Ban them now ;)

 

Edit to add:  "....Wanna go for a run, you smokers?"

I can run 3kms in under 11 minutes. Can you?

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 05:57 | Link to Comment Incubus
Incubus's picture

I'm not a "speed" runner.  I can run for hours, though.

 

Shame, imagine how great you'd be if you weren't bogging yourself down with that taint.  What's the reason for smoking that shit, anyway?  Poor impulse control?

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 02:48 | Link to Comment Truthtellers
Truthtellers's picture

I discriminate against the overweight land whales trucking around on thier scooters.  Fat, lazy, stupid, obese, calorie sinks.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 05:02 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Oh golly, guess it's too late to cancel that order of Macanudo's?

What a bunch of group-think tripe.  How about eggs, ice cream, diesel exhaust, anal sex, jello, prime rib, and alcohol?

Oh, and BTW, the States and .gov make shitloads of money on tax revenues of tobacco - why doesn't that go into healthcare?

Hmmm...must not be about health or us citizens...but about ass raping us coming and going, eh boys and girls? 

And taxing booze?  What?  Tax us out the ass so you can pop people for DUI's and bad livers? (Don't Drink and Drive!).

Shit, it's like ramping the market and crashing it on the retiree's, 401K, IRA, and pensions with successive bubbles.

What a crock.

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

One of the most enlightening things for me when I first worked trauma on graveyard shift was the population of drunk driving accidents. I assumed they'd all be flaming alcoholics. Absolutely not at all. In 8 years I saw 2 alcoholics get into a car accident from actually FAILING to drink, suffered DTs and crashed. The vast majority were kids drinking under the age of 21. Rarely was it one kid in the car but at least 3. Sometimes they were so bad we had to divide them up over 3 hospitals. No law can stop this.

This experience taught me that I need to raise my kids properly about alcohol. No lecturing them....thats just blah blah blah. Whenever we went out we always gave them sips of wine to taste ( hated my favorite Petite Syrah!) on weekends whe we made margaritas they often helped us prepare them and had a few sips. When they were 14 and 17 we were in Paris in a cafe when they asked if they could order drinks because was legal. Sure! We have pictures of us all toasting our trip. My older daughter whispered to me as we were walking back to our apartment " I'm glad I only had one, I feel a bit lightheaded and unstable" " good" I said " the most important part about drinking is knowing when to say when". When they shared our trip with their classmates I got a call from the school. But that's another story.

Funny how the state thinks they can solve all with taxes and regulation and we just used good parenting. At least we thought it was. There are many who differed with our approach.

Miffed;-)

Sat, 07/13/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment cabtrom
cabtrom's picture

Is there an income gap between bologna pony smokers and non-bologna pony smoker?

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