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The Government Shutdown Looms: A Q&A On What Happens Next (And Who Stays At Home)
With a government's October 1 shut down - temporary of course - now seemingly inevitable, and more importantly with the peak debt ceiling negotiations due in just about a week after which point the Treasury will run out of money, many wonder what comes next. That this is happening just two short years after the dramatic August 2011 debt ceiling impasse, when the market tumbled 20% and likely slowed economic growth is still fresh in everyone's mind, is hardly helping matters. Add a potential political crisis in Greece and Italy, and suddenly a whole lot of unexpected variables have to be "priced in."
Courtesy of AP, here are questions and answers about how the two standoffs, now intertwined, could affect the economy and financial markets:
Q. What exactly will happen within the next days and weeks?
A. The most urgent deadline is for Congress and the White House to agree to keep funding the government after the current budget year ends Monday. Otherwise, some of the government would have to shut down. The House and Senate are considering bills to fund the government past the deadline. But House Republicans want to cut off funding for President Barack Obama's health care law as a condition of passing the spending measure. Senate Democrats and the White House have balked. Unless one side essentially blinks, a partial shutdown of the government will occur.
Q. What would be the effect on the economy if the two sides miss the deadline for passing the spending measure?
A. About one-third of the government will shut down. About 800,000 of about 2.1 million federal employees will be sent home without pay. National parks will close.
NASA will continue to keep workers at Mission Control in Houston and elsewhere to support the International Space station, where two Americans and four other people live. Aside from that only about 3 percent of NASA's 18,000 workers will keep working.
The military and other agencies involving safety and security would continue to function. These include air traffic controllers, border patrol and law enforcement officers. Social Security, Medicare and veterans' benefits payments would continue, but there could be delays in processing new disability applications.
A partial shutdown that lasts no more than a few days wouldn't likely nick the economy much. But if the shutdown were to persist for two weeks or more, the economy would likely begin to slow, economists say.
Extended closures of national parks would hurt hotels, restaurants and other tourism-related businesses. Delays in processing visas for overseas visitors could interrupt trade. And the one-third of the federal workforce that lost pay would cut back on spending, thereby slowing growth.
A three-week shutdown would slow the economy's annual growth rate in the October-December quarter by up to 0.9 percentage point, Goldman Sachs estimates. If so, the growth rate next quarter would be a scant 1.6 percent, compared with the 2.5 percent that many economists now forecast.
The contingency plans for various government agencies are available at http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/contingency-plans .
Q. What about the federal borrowing cap? First of all, what is it?
A. It's a legal limit on how much debt the government can pile up. The government accumulates debt two ways: It borrows money from investors by issuing Treasurys. And it borrows from itself, mostly from Social Security revenue.
Q. What if Congress can't agree to raise the cap in time?
A. It could be disastrous. No longer authorized to borrow, the government would have to pay its bills only out of the revenue it gets from taxes and fees. This would force the government to immediately slash spending by 32 percent, the Bipartisan Policy Center estimates. Most analysts think the government would delay paying each day's bills until it had accumulated enough money to pay them all.
Even worse, the government could miss interest payments on Treasurys, triggering a first-ever default by the U.S. government. U.S. Treasurys are held by banks, governments and individuals worldwide. Ultimately, a prolonged default could lead to a global financial crisis.
At the same time, Social Security and other benefit payments would be delayed. Government contractors might not be paid and would likely lay off workers. Paychecks for military personnel could be delayed.
The government actually reached its borrowing limit back in May. Since then, the Treasury has taken a variety of measures to avoid exceeding it. But the cash generated by those measures will run out sometime between Oct. 22 and Oct. 31, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates.
The date isn't exact because it isn't possible to foresee precisely how much revenue the government will receive and when.
Q. Will the economy escape harm if both deadlines are met?
A. Probably. But even brinksmanship can have consequences. The last major fight over the borrowing cap, in the summer of 2011, wasn't resolved until hours before the deadline. Even though the deadline was met, Standard & Poor's issued the first-ever downgrade of long-term U.S. credit. That, in turn, led to a 635-point plunge in the Dow Jones industrial average the next day.
In August that year, consumer confidence plummeted to its lowest level since April 2009, when the economy was in recession. Spending at retail stores weakened.
"The fallout nearly caused the fragile economic recovery to stall," says Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics.
The International Monetary Fund estimated last month that U.S. budget disputes, like the 2011 showdown, can slow annual growth by up to 0.5 percentage point in other parts of the world.
The Government Accountability Office later estimated that just the threat of default escalated the government's borrowing costs that year by $1.3 billion, or about 0.5 percent.
The drawn-out fights can cause Americans to delay major purchases, such as for cars or appliances, says Ethan Harris, global economist at Bank of America Merrill Lynch. And they can erode confidence in the United States as a place to do business. Employers become less willing to expand and hire.
On Friday, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the National Association of Manufacturers and several other business groups urged Congress to fund the government and raise the borrowing limit.
"It is not in the best interest of the employers, employees or the American people to risk a government shutdown that will be economically disruptive and create even more uncertainties for the U.S. economy," the groups said.
Q. All this sounds pretty scary. Why aren't financial markets panicking?
A. Stock prices have fallen in six of the past seven days, partly because of the looming deadlines. But the price declines have been modest. Many investors likely feel they have seen this movie before and know how it ends: with another last-minute deal.
"After several rounds of fiscal brinksmanship ... markets may be somewhat desensitized to the headlines," Alec Phillips, an economist at Goldman Sachs, wrote in a note to clients.
* * *
And for those government workers curious if they will or won't be working on Tuesday in case of a shutdown, the following primer from the NYT answers that question:
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The market hasn't panicked because they all know the drama is just bullshit.
If they "really" defaulted, the markets would melt. But that won't happen.
I'm more concerned that Walter White is gonna get shutdown
just a bit more (a tiny) doom and gloom ...
"Russia, Iran, Damascus may crank up border tensions to weaken Netanyahu’s hand in America"
Shutdown? Nope. This time the Republicans have announced their surrender before the final battle even began:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/359829/kevin-mccarthy-house-will-send-third-volley-senate-if-reid-rejects-last-nights-bill
Told ya the Repugs would cave.
Same as it ever was...
This is going to be fun!
Ive got my popcorn but at the same time Im prepared for the same old STHF blueballs.
Looking at the NYT's chart, I say that there'll be no fucking loss with thems gonna be furloughed, furloughed.
In fact, just might be a good thing.
Showing the sheeple, by real time example, that the federalies gubamint is just plain too damned big.
And PS... During last night's debate, one of the Dumbocraps said that with the National Parks and Federal Lands closed, that many people wouldn't be able to hunt... And the cocksuckers want to limit firearm...
And PSS Mark Zandi is an asshole (Somebody told me that, BTW) Just passing it on.
And PSSS Vera won last night. That Chavez got the decision was a thrown fight.
Just like gubamint.
Lets see "shutting down" 1/3 of the government = disaster
We need to cut the government by 1/2
hmmm ...... Houston we have a problem
how do we keep the government shut down permanently?
The US Govt has already been shutdown 17 times in the past 40 years, this time won't be any differfent.
well, maybe the interesting info is that at this specific instance in time..
no fed worker.. including the .mil has a more than a dime or two in their pensions..
but no sweat.. it will be replaced with great new bernanke, yellen or whoever fiat of this great nation
Shut the circus down:
Congress Bursts Out Laughing Over Obama’s “Red Line” Budget ThreatFor f**kssake. What kind of madness prevails that means this is a disaster?
"It could be disastrous. No longer authorized to borrow, the government would have to pay its bills only out of the revenue it gets from taxes and fees."
Most people want to save government so it can continue to destroy the economy.
A small number of people want to destroy government to save the economy.
It is easy to see why the progress of civilization is so damn slow.
"Showing the sheeple, by real time example, that the federalies gubamint is just plain too damned big."
Gracious greetings Knuck.
This report is like predicting the weather. It is ALWAYS different than what they say it will be. Bet ya our Tylers might offer a more realistic report based on what might REALLY HAPPEN as this distraction unfolds.
And, you are right. Not missed all. What was blaringly missing was, the IRS, the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, the TSA, and not to forget the american gestapo, the homeless insecurity thugs, and other assorted black-shirts.
One has to wonder if the "contractors" (al-cia-duh) will be part of this cut. Maybe, this is why the soterobama wants to make peace now with Syria and Iran. He has finally run out of American tax payer dollars to pay his private al-cia-duh army with, and the REAL American Military have said screw you and your wars based on lies for the banksters that send us all to wars to die for their profits, and world domination plans.
Hummm...go figure.
yeah, that list looks like a good start and should be a permanent one!
Quick, while the gov't is shut down it'll be a perfect opportunity for our military to initiate a coup to re-secure the founding principles of this nation.
Shut it down and put a lid on it. Unfortunately it won't really shut down until they go bust.
without doubt, there will be an 11th hour cave and we can look forward to a live feed of Barry proclaiming victory whilst delivering blow after blow to the extremist members of the house (aka Tea Party) as Boehner weeps (with joy) in the background
The shutdown will happen and should happen to help stop the lunacy of an ever increasing government control over everything and everybody. Federal taxes should be suspended as well for the duration of the shutdown because after all, there's no government! Like that will ever happen..
In fact, I think there should be a "National Do Nothing Day" or even week where nothing is done so people can just relax
Government relinquish control? Their banker masters cannot accept that, nor can government.
People relax? Not sure they would if they had the chance, but if they did most would go mad when they realized the real situation.
That's why you have the ever increasing pace and stream of images, noises, and messages; keep the wheels spinning.
Then here's a real nightmare with the shut down:
http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/25/technology/mobile/federal-shutdown-black...
The horror.... The horror...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4
"Q. What if Congress can't agree to raise the cap in time?
A. It could be disastrous."
It won't be disastrous and herein lies a big chance. When people notice how little it really matters to their lives if their government shuts down, the pendulum may finally start swinging back in the direction of a free society.
Ah heck, I don't collect a Gov. check or handouts, never called a cop, break laws on occasion when nobody is looking, helped a few little old ladies cross the road, haven't seen a justifiable war since...well, never, and I'm almost 60.
I need the Government why? I won't miss them.
Precisely, Rubbish. May they shut down and forget how to restart!
Roger that, CH1. Shut it down and welcome to the brave new world of anarchy, which has gotten a bad name, mostly from big government types. Every man and woman free, responsible for the welfare of his or her own family, without intrusion, interruption, taxation or regulation from government of any kind.
I'm all for that and willing to help out those who deserve help (lazy welfare cocksuckers can go die now, thank you).
Signed,
Single, 59, free and responsible in New York (now if we can just get rid of that Cuomo communist)
"(now if we can just get rid of that Cuomo communist)"
I thought all Italians are Fascist, oh well...(still totalitarian).
Remove all the direct and hidden taxes and suddenly everyone is able to pay doctor bills, so who needs Obamacare after a government shutdown?
I Might want some bullets, before that anarchy thing goes down(not that it's "chaos", but that the idea that you can generally " trust thy neighbor " in an event as such needs to be intimately pondered. JMO)
You also don't speak German, and though most of the guys who made that happen are no longer with us, their modern "descendants in arms" are why we need (limited, agreed) Govt.
People are free to choose their own religious belief systems.
Since government is a belief system with no proof of efficacy, each individual should also be free to choose which government, or none at all, if they prefer.
Anything else is tyranny, which is what we have now.
The Dems are running Hitler's gameplan, just another era.
Oh, didn't you hear, we need a World Gubmimt to save us from the weather...
Acfual default on bonds....no
Actual prolonged shutdown...one can only hope
Screw Israel
It all depends on 1 simple thing:
How many Congressional Critters are still in the market, if the majority are then they will pass anything.
If all of them have their investments on the sidelines it is a guaranteed Government Shutdown.
It is all and ONLY about their money...everyone else is Welcome to Fuck Off!
You guys need a constitutional amendment. No budget = instant election. Bye bye dipshits!
~"In August that year, consumer confidence plummeted to its lowest level since April 2009, when the economy was in recession. Spending at retail stores weakened.
"The fallout nearly caused the fragile economic recovery to stall," says Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics."~
What absolute bullshit. The "fragile economy" exists right now mostly due to govt. spending driven by debt creation. Stop creating debt, let the chips fall and get rid of 1/3 of all govt. The folks back home will get along just fine as long as they aren't the ones on the govt. teat. The ones on the dole will have to go out and actually work for a living, as will the govt. drones who lost their cushy govt. jobs.
"the markets would melt. But that won't happen"
Exactly! The bankster cry babies (credit and debt) want more and more candy.
I like the ending of the post "All this sounds pretty scary. Why aren't financial markets panicking"
The market can’t short it - it’s very dangerous to your health, considering Ben Big Bucks Bernanke has made it clear that he will print whatever billions of dollars per month the bankers need. In addition, the US Treasury will borrow, rob, lie and manipulate whatever money and data needed to prevent a market correction.
"Even worse, the government could miss interest payments on Treasurys, triggering a first-ever default by the U.S. government."
Back in the 1980s, some people were getting 19% on their bonds, so the government decided to stop paying. That was a default.
They won't let it shut down for long because then people would realize they don't need 99% of it. Less government = more freedom.
Market? There hasn't a market for quite some time. Funnny shit.
anyone know what time Dancing With The Stars comes on tonight? thanks in advance.
Uh, I dunno ... I tune in to see what's happening on Duck Dynasty? You know, you get some really good investing ideas on Storage Locker Wars.
/sarc
Shut it down!
no one gives a shit. If they want people to care they need to have the space station shut down and provide a live video feed of those guys running out of oxygen. Think of the ratings, the ad revenue etc. Just don't do it against the NFL.
Even that would only be an entertaining diversion (well except for the guys in the space station) until the next 'crisis'. Try to think of a recent crisis that's had a media shelf-life of more than about 3 days (regardless of the actual timeframe of the event itself).
For government, crisis is their life's blood. No noise comes from their mouth that is not a crisis. They simultaneously broadcast fear and chaos while offering themselves as the only solution. The best part is that they always readily admit that they have only flawed solutions in order to keep expectations low. Only they can save us, but only barely and always at high cost.
All they have to peddle is fear. If we stop being afraid of all the BS they push at us via the MSM, the world would be a better place. I say laugh in their bureaucratic faces and tell them to turn the lights off on the way out the door as they SHUT THE FUCKER DOWN.
"All they have to peddle is fear. If we stop being afraid of all the BS they push at us via the MSM, the world would be a better place. I say laugh in their bureaucratic faces and tell them to turn the lights off on the way out the door as they SHUT THE FUCKER DOWN."
Ahoy, and roger that Keyser.
THAT!!!...was pure poetry spoken as simple truth in a perfect harmonic tune that resonates sweetly in the heart.
Thank you. It's nice to feed the heart real truth.
May the Great Light of the Most High prevail!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIaPIy4Mddg
Sell the ISS and fund it through internet fundraising.
You want it, you pay for it, as it should be with everything.
The sign should say "Sorry we are open"
I used to go to a bar that had a sign that said, "Sorry, we're Open." A place called Richmond's, in Rochester, NY. I used to write their ads. The owners had a sense of humor, satire and irony that rivaled my own. Some of the best ever ads came out of drinking a few with those guys. Good days.
Please provide the name of your employer so that all those government workers who get sent home without pay will know where not to spend whatever wealth they may have. See, if they are spending their taxpayer subsidized salaries on whatever shit product or service you provide in your employment, that would make you a government sponsored whore.
^"...government sponsored whore." ^
Good to see the shutdown won't effect the trolls. Sorry couldn't resist. Had to feed him.
Zombies need to eat too.
Good one 'Wood! Made me think of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML6oLuLecQ4
Please go kill yourself now. A free market businessman does not labor to provide services or products to gubmint employee freeloaders. A free market businessman labors to provide a living for himself and his family. Whether gubmint employee leeches purchase his products and services is something that the businessman has no control over. Purchases (with the exception of government mandated ones, like, say, health insurance) are made with free will. A furloughed gubmint employee parasite will have to pare their expenses down to only what is necessary to survive. A smart businessman will make sure that what he provides is necessary to survival, thus ensuring the survival of his own life and the lives of his family. Businessmen always adjust to the ever-encroaching gubmint intrusion to their own benefit. For reference, see all the corporations that are dumping their employees on health care exchanges to protect the bottom line that feeds their employees.
Tell you what, I'll give my business address to a gubmint worker so they know where not to spend their money in the event of a shutdown, but only if they provide me with their home addresses when the shutdown does not occur and is prevented by an eleventh-hour Red Team cave-in. That way, I will know where the parasites are that are taking the food out of my kids' mouths so they can feed their own kids, and I can go take it the fuck back.
+ infinity
You mean the 'wealth' that is stolen from the taxpayers in the first place.
Leave it in the pockets of the producers to spend and keep it from the thieving parasites in government.
Rubbish. Absolute rubbish. Your analogy is severely flawed because in your real life corrolary, the John's aren't stealing the whores' money and then forcing them to FUCK them to get it back.
I can think of HUNDREDS of things that are FAR MORE worthwhile on which to spend TAXPAYER'S $$'s and debt than providing jobs programs for DINGUS jackwads like you. Let's pay 1 million people to dig ditches, and then pay 1 million other people to fill in the ditches! (Arguably beneficial if the government parasites were in the ditches before they were filled in). That SAME money would STILL be in the economy if weren't wasted on asshats like you.
Your facile and short-sighted comprehensions of: logic, reality, economics (micro, macro, and kitchen table) are the hallmarks of a government pig.
Get your degree from Nancy Pelosi U.? "Unemployment benefits is the best way to stimulate the economy". May 14, 2003. So, uh, Nancy, if EVERYONE was unemployed then we'd be in the black in no time!
FUCKING idiots. Go find something productive to do else go shoot yourselves. Stop kidding yourselves that ANYONE needs you.
Oh good, I see from the figure that money printers will still be going to work. In fact I bet they'll be CTRL+P'ing into overtime
+100 if I could upvote you that much.
"It could be disastrous. No longer authorized to borrow, the government would have to pay its bills only out of the revenue it gets from taxes and fees. This would force the government to immediately slash spending by 32 percent"
Why is this a bad thing? Spending only what they take in revenue-wise is what they are supposed to do. Any damn fool with a pile of credit card debt can tell you that once you spend more than you can realistically pay back, it's time for the nuclear options: A) increase revenue, dramatically slash expenses to the bare bones, and sell all non-essential assets, or B) go bankrupt. The US won't declare bankruptcy because it would have to acknowledge that the gubmint is, in fact, reckless and irresponsible, so they really need to choose option A. Unfortunately for us, we have the Federal Reserve sponsoring the insane drunken sailor gubmint spending, so we will always be able to borrow (at ever increasing interest rates) and the gubmint will never choose option A. Instead, they will go with option C that really irresponsible debtors always choose: open another line of credit and use it to pay for the existing lines of credit, which never works because an emergency always comes along and fucks up the plan. For the irresponsible credit card addict, it could be a hospital stay or a new transmission for the car. For the gubmint, it is military action.
The gubmint will not willingly stop spending. Its plan is to rob Peter to pay Paul. Taxpayers are Peter. The FedRes is Paul. We are all slaves to a private corporation that willingly supplies the gubmint addicts with all the fiat heroin they desire. Even when the rest of the world dumps the US currency as the reserve currency, the FedRes will still be propping up the charade. Shut it down and end the goddamn Fed, as the best Paul (Ron) keeps telling us.
Enjoying the professional wrestling show? A match-up between two staunch opponents both threatening each other in a ferocious battle of words. Then, after they're done tagging their partners in and out of the ring, smashing fake chairs over each others' backs and riling up the crowd by giving them a good show, right at that last minute; finale time and we have a winner! Yes, they will have their winner and the loser won't be anyone in the ring. The loser is the public on many levels.
Losers because we have to sit through this insufferable bullshit. Losers, because whatever these scumbags decide to do, we have to pay for it. Losers because no matter what we say, they are running this show by the numbers; they have a script to go by. So whatever these hypothetical questions and answers have to say, it is meaningless bullshit because at the last minute, we get a 2x4 up the ass anyway.
...and there it is in a nutshell.
I'm just happy it isn't a 4x4.
Don't worry, DHS has a couple hundred million 4x4s on order.
Ever thought about the possibility of them using two 2x4 as a 4x4, eh? ;-)
Luckily 2x4s aren't 2" x 4" anymore, at least we got that goin for us...
I wish they would start de-nailing the 2x4's. Does Maobama care cover prolapse repair?
2x4's were never 2x4. Nominal size vs actual.
"Why aren't financial markets panicking?
A. Many investors likely feel they have seen this movie before and know how it ends: with another last-minute deal."
--
This is the only thing in the article that's relevant. The rest is indeed pure bullshit. You, Z_E, are bang on!
That's a wrap...
I still prefer Monty Python's Flying Circus...at least they had funny British accents to add to the irony/satire/BS.
the growth rate next quarter would be a scant 1.6 percent, compared with the 2.5 percent that many economists now forecast.
Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that the fictious number meant to represent growth rate - manufactured by government and media controlled agencies, will likely be adjusted from 2.5 percent to 1.6 percent.
>> will likely be adjusted from 2.5 percent to 1.6 percent.
But then they'll revise it back down to .8% just in time to beat it with 1.2%, and the markets will go wild, while gold is monkeyhammered.
SHUTDOWN????? The Republicans are already announcing their surrender. GOP Whip McCarthy is already saying if the Senate doesn't pass it, they have a watered down version(my words not his) to offer. Do any of the Republicans have any balls? How long did it take for them to telegraph to Reid that they will give in? This would be astounding if it hadn't already happened half a dozen times since Obummer took office.
You do not understand, labor must become a fungible commodity for the oligarchy to be pleased. You can hardly make production and distribution cost comparable across borders if you don't have upkeep costs under control. Think of how livestock are kept and how much of that now applies to people.
Around 40% of existing labour isn't even going to be needed in 20 years, according to a recent Oxford University publication on automation. We have a livestock culling problem on our hands, not a livestock keeping problem.
I understand the argument but I'm not sure of its implications. If automation is to create products and services, do you not need customers to sustain their production? Customers require funds to pay for said products and services or production ceases. It seems there would be a balance that occurs naturally regarding supply and demand. Of course with government intervention in the markets I'm not sure what that means. It feels like that most of our problems are due to misallocations of investments and borrowed money allowing for supply/demand imbalances to occur. I'm not an economist, just trying to think logically, which in this world may be my undoing.
You can't think logically in a world run by government because government is strictly emotional.
Do you have a link to the report?
20yrs? fukushima will account for some of the cull.
>> Do any of the Republicans have any balls?
Well, yes, but they usually are attached to the guy in the stall next to them.
Actually, they bounce off the back of America's thighs, as they fuck us up the ass.
-1 ballplayer, not because your statement's untrue, but the ugly, ugly realization of how true the metaphor is!
I uptick your down tick.
touche'
I needed that laugh! The foot tapping RepubliCONS
Wow, you seem to think this fiction is real.
Q. All this sounds pretty scary. Why aren't financial markets panicking?
umm, because the market knows its daddy warbucks is standing by with wads of fiat just ready to be i.v.'d into the system?
Benny Warbucks?
"The government accumulates debt two ways: It borrows money from investors by issuing Treasurys. And it borrows from itself, mostly from Social Security revenue."
Who are these" investors"?
Maybe they're still counting Brian Sack in addition to Kevin Henry?
Investors? Do they mean "bag holders"?
Pension funds, Chinese, Indians, Japanese etc.
Who are these" investors"?
the primary dealers
who borrow from the fed at .25 of 1%
they buy the treasuries and deposit them with the Fed for 2%
then the Fed does the fractional reserve lending game with the deposits
throw in a hypothecation and re hypothecation or 2
and the game goes on....
Paging Mr. Rico Laws to the Red phone. Mr. Rico laws to the Red phone, please.
p.s. Rico is no more. Rico is now Dick-O.
Let's start a fantasy league but draft politicians instead of football players.
You get:
1 CONgressman
1 Senator
1 former politician who is now a MSM mouthpiece
1 cabinet member
And...
Hmmm, I'll have to work on the details some more, but I like the idea.
What, do you drive a 1965 chevy lowride, with white walls and dice hanging from the mirrors?
hehehehe...got you back meat. just having fun with ya my boy.
Hahaha. I was wondering if you saw that Abi.
Well-played, sir.
hehe, I have to look for my openings, timing is everything my friend. I do love sarcasm too much, me thinks! Therefore, many people mis-understand my true intent. Oh well...
Touche, I await my next hammering from the meat!
Sliante!
Let's make it real leagues. I'll rent the lions. You bring the bread and clowns...oh wait, the clowns are the stars...
"Let's start a fantasy league but draft politicians instead of football players."
Can I get insurance policies on my players, like sports fantasy leagues? Just in case one of them falls victim to a guillotine.
http://www.fantasysportsinsurance.com/
Gotta keep payin' the boys in uniform. Never know when the zombies might rise up.
Every regime from time immemorial knows they have to pay their soldiers.
The debt ceiling will be a non-event. If push comes to shove, Obama will order Secretary Lew to mint trillion dollar coins.
What about the girls in uniform? And never forget the gay/lesbian teams of which gender they might be is all about "choice".
National parks will close? What a joke. I picture someone turning off the waterfalls and sending Yogi and Booboo home with lunch pails in hand.
What really happens is the overpaid federal employees who man the gate and take money for parking go home. I don't think the trout in the lakes will notice.
>> the overpaid federal employees who man the gate
Actually, a lot, if not most, of those positions are filled by volunteers. The reason the National Parks are hit first is because nobody working those jobs makes any cash, as compared to other boondoggle operations the government runs to pay off cronies.
Shutter the national parks, close libraries, anything of actual use to the public, but keep the hog troughs well supplied.
Thanks for the info, greatbeard; I didn't know that.
Which makes it all the more sinister. Shutting down the areas of .gov that the people actually like but don't actually cost .gov much money just to give us the middle finger.
Roll the fucking guillotines already!!!
While it is understandable that the national parks will close, it is unfortunate that the national forests will close also, even though most of the campgrounds are already on the honor system. You pick your site, grab an envelope and put money in for however many days you plan to occupy the site write your site number on the envelope, and shove it in the concrete tube with the hole in the top that acts as a safe. You pack your trash out in many of these areas. BUT they have gates, and just out of spite to the taxpayer, make no mistake the gates will be closed and locked. I expect an uptick in sales of bolt cutters at hardware stores surrounding our national forests. If you are looking for solitude, the national forests have the national parks beat out by a mile. Most national parks are the big marquee sites and are crowded and generally destroy the ambiance anyway.
Meat Hammer: The forestry and national park folks don't make much money, and even with the little they do make it there is a waiting list so to speak to get those jobs. Those folks for the most part are there because they like the outdoors. If they did not make them stand down, most would probably be happy to stay and work, and the visitors would be happy to chip in to buy them some dinner and a couple cold ones.
Western VA, and Northern NC have the blue ridge, south of the Shenandoah Natl Parkway, Blue ridge not technically Natl Parks, but some limited gov funded. There are gates, along the BR parkway. I take the wife there often for 48 hr getaways to nature, leaf peeper time next two weeks(mid Oct). Hope they leave those gates alone.
Interesting thread that got started here as we peel back the onion.
.gov is happily shutting down the departments that actually prove voluntary cooperation works better than government intrusion, and always has.
If you go to a campground and one of the campers is disrespecting the rest by being noisy, having too big a campfire, etc., you don't see the other campers running to call a politician for an immediate law; they approach said dickhead and make it clear that the behavior will not be tolerated. I once saw a guy pour a bucket of water on some douchebag's camp inferno. Problem solved.
>> I didn't know that.
It's an interesting thing in the RV world. In exchange for a spot for the RV, volunteers work 28 to 30 hours a week (each if a couple, more if single). State Parks, Forrest Service Parks, National Parks, National Wildlife Preserves, it's all the same.
Lots of RV folks retire, then spend the next few years going from volunteer spot to volunteer spot. I don't have a lot in common with the average RVer as I'm anti social and get by on a very frugal stipend. Most of these folks have cushy retirement gigs and travel about in high dollar rigs. The have no use for me and vise versa, but I do respect them for their volunteer efforts.
Hopefully the volunteers will cut the locks and open the gates and just carry on as usual.
And something tells me the park rangers won't give a shit if they're not getting a paycheck.
greatbeard,
Perhaps you know the answer a question I've been asking some people around me that don't have an answer.
Q: If someone wanted to retire, sell their home, and hit the road in an RV for the rest of their life, how do they maintain vehicle registration, insurance, and driver's license when they have no "home address"? .gov seems to hate transients.
>> how do they maintain vehicle registration, insurance, and driver's license when they have no "home address"?
There are places that handle that for you. I'd suggest you look up the escapees organization. The message forum is rvnetwork.com. Log on there and there will be hundreds of people who do just what you're asking about. Good luck.
Thanks for the tip!
Actually, a lot, if not most, of those positions are filled by volunteers.
Just like the White House Tour's currently.
Some people here may disagree with me, but I think that volunterering for government and private sector organizations only serves to give those fuckers at the top another excuse for not paying people for good work. While I respect the good-will and intention of volunteers, I believe they end up damaging low and medium-wage earners by taking away hundreds (if not millions) of good-paying jobs. In other words, TPTB are probably saying: "Thanks, suckers!"
And in theory at least, who would be paying for these jobs again? Public service was never intended as a means to financial security. Somehow, too many people seem to think the government (taxpayers) are supposed to provide employment to those who can find it no where else. And where did you ever get the notion that government is looking for excuses to pay their employees less. I think any analysis of the facts would show that government employment levels,pay and benefits have been the largest winner of the last 30 years, bankers and wall street not included.
dup
Won't the volunteers be unaffected? Will they stop volunteering?
Listen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_0sg0XDfmg&list=PL67F5FD59A2DC80D2
I don't work for the NPS, but another fed land mgmt agency. When the sequester happened we were told by our higher ups that the public were supposed to "feel the pain" of the sequester. The same thing is happening now. Even if we can do the same job with fewer resources (by being creative) we aren't supposed to. We were even told not to do "less" with reduced budgets but rather to "stop" doing certain activities/projects.
In the unlikely event that Govt is shut down, what happens to the US Dollar?
that is a good question ...
More importantly will the us drones still buzz around and will your phone still be nsa'd
Let's hope they fall from the sky and the NSA HQ experiences a blackout! One can dream ya know.
At least we can still post safely here on the Hedge... you know, anonymously...
OT
Hi guys, I am new to ZH. Many folks here have opened my eyes to the reality of what we are going through and for that, I am truly thankful. Waking up is never easy, but we all have to wake up one day or another. And so, after a lot of thought, I decided to post and ask for some advice.
About me- I've been in the US for about 10 years now- first for school and later, work (healthcare sector). I now have a green card, but like many others on ZH, I am looking to emigrate to another country where I can live and work. For personal reasons, going back to my home country in Asia is not an option. The thought of leaving the US was a tough decision for me. I've met some wonderful people here and formed life long friends, but I have to look for other options. I saw that in previous posts, folks have suggested a few destinations to emigrate like Ecuador, etc. I am looking for info on any good lawyers, agencies, pros and cons based on your experience. Any info is much appreciated. TIA.
Keep up the great work and posts. The mind, indeed, is a terrible thing to close.
Can't go home?
Did you have sexy time with the mayor's daughter?
Welcome to Fight Club. Now be quiet and fight.
I think we have demonstrated considerable restraint with Junior.
Canada accepts all ZHers.
The only safe place place I know of is "one step ahead" of the destruction. The only choice is to dig-in, or to float. Situational Awareness is your friend.
If you're wealthy, just live in 2 or 3 different places, you can chose later. If not, stay put. ALL countries without exeptions become less, sometimes much less welcoming for late immigrants when problems arise. In that case, you'll need a large group of people from your country of origin to rely upon. If you're just talking about passport, it doesn't really mater. Don't buy one, it is usually a waste of money. Buy a second house in the country you're interested in and go live there while keeping your current home and job, if possible. After a few years, you're a resident and soon after you can change your nationality.
I know some great places to go to, but I'm not at liberty to mention them, because they would then become shitty places, since everybody would go there.
Here's some advice: Forget everything you've been told, everything you think you know and learn how to garden, at least, or farm. Find some land, build a hut, grow some food and let the world turn around you.
All this modernistic crap with cell phones, computers, blah, blah, blah is just noise. Get back to nature and natural living. If 15% of current working Americans just opted out, the system would crash within six months and we could start over from scratch.
Tell government, Wall Street and big business to suck on that.
"... leaving the US was a tough decision for me"
Don't leave stay in the US and fight.
Welcome EatMoreCookies, take a look at this;
Interview with French Man who Lives in Lome Togo West Africa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwouxaGXn5s
Indeed, get the frack out of the USA ... Its regime is now almost totally fascist, hopeless, and will only get worse before there is maybe a revolution and maybe America breaks into pieces and then gets better in the 2020s
There are not that many countries looking actively for immigrants ... however, healthcare professionals are a notable exception.
Of the major immigrant-inviting countries, Canada and Australia are both starting to have economic slowdowns, and reportedly slowing down their new-arrival invitations as well ... with Canada, you as well have the problem the US Army might be marching in soon to grab the Canadian oil, after the petro-dollar collapses
North-Western Continental Europe, despite all the screwy problems of Europe and the EU well-described on ZeroHedge, is still the wealthiest and nicest place overall to live in the world ... What is important to understand is that Europe is not a 'police state' like in the USA with its gulag ... there is almost no one in jail in Europe, 1 out of 1000, whereas the USA already has 1 out of every 40 working-age males in jail right now, and US corrupt cops and prosecutors and courts who will beat your brains in and jail you for life without hesitation, no matter how innocent you are.
But much can be said for options in South America and in various countries of Asia as well. I would not rely on 'lawyers' or 'agencies' too much, unless specifically oriented to placing health-care professionals like yourself. Dig around on the web, deep, for jobs with visa status for health care people ... and remember you usually have to get past page 3 or even 7 of the search engine to get past the Goog-USA promoted shite, which winds up top of other search engines as well. Use Ixquick if you don't wind the US gov't recording what you searching.
Good luck
I've heard Norway is a great place to live but it gets so darn cold.
Define "cold". It's not "cold" like Alaska, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Wisconsin... It's warmer than all of these places.
Whether you choose to stay or go, you need to get informed (fast!) and have a realistic/viable plan.
Here's a link to one of the ZH authors, where Chris Martensen interviews James Wesley in a recent podcast
James Wesley Rawles: Homesteading, Relocation & Resilience (37'40")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk2vdbSPpn0
p.s. Given their similar back (ex-Army Intel), I wonder if Jim Rawles and Simon Black know each other. I guess Jim’s specialty is toughing it out in the US (for the most part), and Simon’s is to leave the US altogether.
Maybe New Zealand? Hope you carry with you some agricultural skill sets sir.
Good luck with the relocation. Hopefully you can find a place that does not know what a drone is.
If it's your first night and all that ... but if you really want to work a lot for NO tangible money - come to germany! (Maybe I'll say something more worthwile when the weekend is over and I'm no longer drunk.)
I would add this...
There will be NO PLACE to go if America tumbles, because it will be a tsunami that will sink the world. In my mind you have two choices:
Hunker down, prepare for the worst or flee back to your true home.
Since you can't go back home, wondering why? Is the falon gong after you? It would be best the hunker...and have a secondary location to flee to within the US, that is sparsly populated.
There will be no getting away from chaos, as it will be everywhere, and if you are not part of the culture, you will be eaten. I love the guys who say they will flee to Belize, Peru, Chile, etc...they will be eaten there.
So basically, I got nothing for ya, head on back to camp!
Where was the admendment taking away the congressional exempton? That's all I can hope could happen at this point.
Two days before Christmas, 1913, the Congress of the United States easily passed the Federal Reserve Act.
Wouldn’t it have been a catastrophe if members of Congress had stood up and shut the government down rather than turn over the economy, the American society, the American political system and the American people to a small group of private bankers who then over the next 100 years with their progeny seized and destroyed the American experiment?
And, now, with a chance to begin holding back this tsunami of socialism, the tool of these private bankers "to consolidate and control the wealth," the Cassandras begin the wail, “Oh, what a catastrophe to hold back the final nails in the coffin covering the United States of America.
Shut the government down? Absolutely; it should have been shut down at Christmas time 1913; it’s time now to start the long road back.
The same old Boy Cried Wolf story. But remember, in the end, the wolf shows up to eat the sheep.
We need to rewrite the constitution to prohibit re elections, central banks, tax subsidies to special industries, and creation of federal agencies like SS, Medicare , etc to do what for the people what the people should be put on notice to do for themselves.
So that means you are not receiving Social Security benefits or Medicare at this time, and you will forgo those entitlements when you become of age. That is of course if intellectual consistency is important. Perhaps you are an Oligach troll trying to seperate the middle class from their money.
You're an idiot. Without SS and Medicare, you would live like a dog in your retirement years.