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America Today: Obamacare vs The Affordable Care Act

Tyler Durden's picture


Presented with little comment aside to note that perhaps the House should rename the amendments they propose to "defund" in order to gain a more popular position among the citizenry?



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Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:37 | 4012712 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Basically, we are all full of shit. Just pretend like you know what you're talking about. Chances are the person you are talking to has no fucking clue either.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:40 | 4012722 pointer
pointer's picture

those buffoons are all crisis actors - same people used in the Sandy Hook shooting.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:44 | 4012741 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Those Sandy Hook actors freaked me out when I saw them.  I mean WTF is going on when people show up on camera to act like grieving parents... and they are not.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:00 | 4012797 ACP
ACP's picture


As you can see @ 0:33, his audience didn't even get the joke until he explained it to them a few seconds later.

Which means his audience was laughing at people who are stupid as themselves.



Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:03 | 4012801 flacon
flacon's picture

Does he even have an audience or is that a 'laugh track'?

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:04 | 4012808 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Filmed before a live studio audience.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:17 | 4012831 flacon
flacon's picture

I assume you mean the trade marked "Live studio audience®" laugh track and "Stupid people video audience®"

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:17 | 4012838 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Mary Tyler Moar show.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:21 | 4012853 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

This is the kind of meaty women Tyler has been longing for.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:47 | 4012908 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

6 or 7 of those people were overweight according to the BMI. Only 1 or 2 were within the "healthy" range. I'm long heart transplants.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:57 | 4012992 Metric
Metric's picture

Obamacare is doomed.  It's a Ponzi scheme, minus any incentive to lure new money (from young people) into the pile from which the old people are taking.  Unfortunately, that missing part is kind of essential for a Ponzi scheme to work.  Obamacare will never make it out of the disaster stage as the disaster is self-reinforcing -- the higher rates encourage more and more young people to drop out and pay the fine, which results in even higher rates, etc. etc.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:15 | 4013151 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I would just like to know if most people favor a European style of centralized planning and inseparable connection of big banking interests with government for the administration of the economy and control of people’s lives or the democratic process we have here in the United States of America.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:50 | 4013173 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Obama wants me to negotiate my future for this crap?


Congress needs to take a years vacation and let the boy king stew in the cess pool of his creation.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:43 | 4013237 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Unfortunately, our constitutional scholar of a POTUS will just continue rule by fiat as he has in the past.

Congress, I don't need no stinking congress!


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:57 | 4013258 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Would love to see that.

Sadly though, that will remain only a dream...

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:32 | 4013163 indygo55
indygo55's picture

Yup. All part of the scheme to shear us of our hard earned money and give it to the eliete. Except when a few whistleblowers help uncover the truth.

Why hasn't Karen Hudes been mentioned here? or did I miss it?



Wed, 10/02/2013 - 09:12 | 4013337 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You missed it. Smart Knowledge did a two part interview. Look up under contributors.

Try this little warning from the Kentucky health exchange sign-up:


NOTICE:   This is a government computer system and is the property of the Commonwealth of Kentucky. It is for authorized use only regardless of time of day, location or method of access. Users (authorized or unauthorized) have no explicit or implicit expectation of privacy. Any or all uses of this system and all files on the system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized state government and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign. By using this system, the user consents to such at the discretion of the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Unauthorized or improper use of this system may result in administrative disciplinary action and/or civil and criminal penalties. The unauthorized disclosure of Data containing privacy or health data may result in criminal penalties under Federal authority.


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 09:17 | 4013409 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

So they're going to prosecute themselves for releasing, monitoring, recording, copying, auditing, intercepting and inspecting our FEDERALLY PROTECTED PRIVATE HEALTH RECORDS??

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 09:40 | 4013456 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

They seem to have the option of choosing whom is abusing the data and whom isn't. Still, you give up an awful lot of your 4th amendment rights to join this exchange and it's mandated. 

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 10:24 | 4013591 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Sean, you have hit on the key point few realize. As a healthcare worker, I'm scrutinized continuously for possible violations of HIPAA. I can be audited anytime and must have explanation why I reviewed an electronic chart. I had to do HIPAA counseling when I accidentally left sensitive info on a xerox. This was in a lab that was in a locked building so non medical people had no access. I claimed everyone in the building was HIPAA compliant so I didn't violate the law. I got off with a warning but it was written up as an incident report. Those of us in the medical field are trained to take these things seriously. Do all of you think the average government worker will hold themselves to the same standards?


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:55 | 4013254 youngman
youngman's picture

They will just keep raising the fines and the enforcement of it.....the costs will will make a lot of people liars as they will on the application to get a cheaper rate....this is just a very bad joke..that will cost trilions extra and lower the quality of care....

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 12:16 | 4014119 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Yup, you about summed it up. What you don't realize even without Obamacare we're sinking as well due to oppressive government regulation.

This year I was presented with 20 new rules for employee competency. This on the surface sounds great! Who wouldn't want more competent microbiologists in a lab? However, these regulations are insane. I must document by observation, written tests, outside blind challenges and continuing education seminars on EACH procedure done by all personel yearly.

There are 10 people in my dept. To fully implement compliance, we need to higher 1 FTE to simply do all the observation and documentation. Some of these procedures have been done for 25 years on a numerous daily basis with NOT ONE MISTAKE. Why do I now have to prove we are competent? To me, there are far too many people in government agencies that have nothing better to do than harass the remaining productive people left in the workplace.


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:25 | 4012962 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Love at first word. <3

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:18 | 4012836 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

If one ever graduates to 'emloyer' they quickly find out the average IQ is dismal. I couldn't handle it, mass termination of 30 employees and went solo.


Hire very small companies for better bang for your buck.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:27 | 4012864 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



This is why our founding fathers gave us a representative republic rather than a democracy.

Democracy is 3 (dumb) wolves and 2 (dumb) sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:50 | 4013245 max2205
max2205's picture

Why is there a white baby in the picture?

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:42 | 4013339 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

The representatives play to the TAKERS and make them wolves while the MAKERS are made sheep.  John Gault needs to become a hunter of wolves.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:28 | 4012871 flacon
flacon's picture

I have fired several managers at Merrill Lynch and Blackrock, as well as at some other "Fortune 50" companies. Feels good to pack up your cubicle yourself instead of having it mailed to you. And I got a free "team lunch" hosted by the fired manager to boot! 


Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:43 | 4012902 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Spoken like a true American business person. Jobs to the Chinese.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 03:33 | 4013079 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Yeah but they still run a laugh track. TV and Hollywood are for sheep who support this. Hand Jimmy Kimmel a bagel.  TV is for retards.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:15 | 4013285 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

freddie, your comment means so much coming from a SERF who has a TV star as a avatar

keep listening to the radio you idiot serf

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:05 | 4012810 pointer
pointer's picture

manufactured reality.  I think it was set up to usher in new gun control laws which apparently backfired.

Here is some food for thought:

  1. The Dark Knight shooting was at the movie theater called Century 16 which equals 116 numerically.  Flip it upside down and you get 911
  2. The Dark Knight movie makes reference to a map where is clearly says 'Sandy Hook' on the screen (the same way 9/11/01 was in The Matrix in 1999)
  3. The Boston Bombing was done at the address of 666 Boylston Street.

Perhaps the government shutdown is a pre-text for another "terrorist" plot?  Rahm Emanuel said to 'not let a good crisis go to waste'.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:11 | 4012820 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Lest we forget, Nancy Reagan was a big proponent of astrology and numerology.  I think it's crazy, but she married an ex-President who went crazy.  So who's crazy now?  Bitch.  

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:33 | 4012880 pointer
pointer's picture

the occultists are big into numerology.  All of the monuments in Washington DC have reflecting pools in front of them.  "As Above, So Below"

Do a google image search for 'George Washington and Baphomet' and you will see the hand gesture of 'as above, so below'

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 03:39 | 4013081 Freddie
Freddie's picture

All the evidence on Sandy Hook was sealed.  I heard on the radio, avoid TV and listen to very little radio, that Sandy Hook school will be torn down thanks to govt money and the gov of CT thank the Feds and how wodnerful that all was.

Bottom line - false flag that backfired so they want to destroy all the evidence including the school.  No way that the kid who did it was able to do that when a cop would have been 2 minutes away.

Just like how SWAT was diverted from the call at the Navy Yard.  Just like the cops waiting out side of Columbine until the shooting stopped.

They slip up and say things like "we thought we finally would get gun control after Century 16."   So evil.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 05:25 | 4013132 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

I came across this article quite by accident diddling around the web. I have no idea if this is legit, but in a spooky way it explains recent events and non-events. What say you?

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:05 | 4013271 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

re #2:  "Aurora" also appears in neon in Dark Night Rising.  We have spent many hours researching these topics.  Tyler, perhaps it is time to have a Tin Foil Hat thread where we can maybe flush these bastards out into the open.  TeamDepends has plenty of ammo, and we are certain other ZHers do as well.


Thu, 10/03/2013 - 12:04 | 4012896 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

1 in every 25 people is a sociopath.  Either that or he's on something strange, bipolar, something.  That guy was living in the moment.



Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:29 | 4013316 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

The political class has done a great job of confusing the muppets.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:42 | 4012733 Fake_nation
Fake_nation's picture

That's all they have been doing for decades now. And by they I mean the Wizards of Oz we imagine are all-powerful:

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:04 | 4012809 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

the world has always wondered how the US could give us the knuckle head quinella Bush and Obama... this explains it. keep the guns you'll need them, but we think you better hand over the nukes.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:58 | 4012789 cloudybrain
cloudybrain's picture

taxpayers money goes to shit programs. Stop it

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:22 | 4012859 blindman
blindman's picture

you have to vote it into law to
find out what is in it, no sense
wasting all that time reading it,
all 975 pages of which will turn healthy
people into universal donors of financing
to a system that will likely deny any
claim for what ails them but cover everything
they don't suffer from but perhaps cause them
to suffer from something that might be partially
all this talk about the system needing the
contributions of the young
and health people with no medical needs scares me.
and the doctors complaining they are not adequately
recompensed even in Massachusetts which has these
markets/exchanges for coverage in place already.
these same young and healthy people who have educational
debt and no job prospects just got hit again,
just to highlight that particular segment.
between medicare, medicaid, social security and
affordable obama care, not to mention school taxes,
property taxes, sales taxes, utilities, fuel, food,
life insurance, income taxes, federal and state
and other mandatory expenses ... tolls, fees and charges
there is little oxygen left in the room.
and all this before you are savagely attacked by
further fraud for fraud's sake.
this is what the end of hope looks like.
i can't judge these people for not knowing shit
about what they speak, it is ubiquitous and who
has the time to set anything straight , even in their
own mind, it is the gut feeling we take as considered
opinion today. it is the flow based on no stock,
propagandized from the cradle.
but the part that really sucks is that the hospitals
overcharge everyone all the time just as a matter of
principle. double and triple charge in the hope of
payment and the paymasters know it and have the bills
reduced by some 40-50 percent with a phone call.
they take that license to steal thing literally,
and then they make you even sicker or worse off some
percentage of the time and charge you for that too.
and the kicker is a question.
what is the leading cause of death in the united states
of america? would that be medical intervention?
some say it is, iatrogenic mortality is what it is
Death by Medicine–Iatrogenic illness
at OCTOBER 06, 2008
i could see how a person might want to opt out
just to see another sunrise if possible.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:52 | 4012915 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Because real doctors are few and rare these days. You only have scripted pill-pushers. What's the difference between a doctor and a dope pusher? Well, the former's got a shitload of debt and a profession soon to be state-sponsored, and the latter's got the war on drugs (TM) to worry about. Other than that, the difference is nothing, nada, zip. They push the same damn opiates. One form is legalized and suggested. The other is illegalized and punished.

"White man medicine" kill you.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 02:57 | 4013061 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Amen.  It's not even the opiates that kill you.  It's the chemical cesspool of crap designed to 'treat your condition' but never cure it, and kill you slowly enough to milk you and your cohort for a 'Mercedes a year' annuity.  Per pharma salesman.  Fucking vipers.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:02 | 4012936 Dubaibanker
Dubaibanker's picture

You think 'Obamacare' will cause problems by overspending etc. Look at India, which is the only country in the world to have a 'VIP' category for prisoners. Imagine that for Corzine or Madoff or Rajarathnam or Sanford or some scum like that! You collect scam money for years and per chance if you are caught, you live in luxury in a prison. What a life! Anyone wanna serve time in India?

Only In India!

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:48 | 4013351 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Some time ago there was a 'prison' that resembled a country club; it was located in the Florida Panhandle. I don't recall the name, and I have no idea if it is still around, but is was the subject of many jokes. It was, in essence, a 'VIP' prison.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:27 | 4012964 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I called my state Obama board today and inquired if I could get a vagina installed on my forehead; they said a vaginal cranio plastery would be covered but I'd have to wait 18 months.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 13:25 | 4014421 wtf1369
wtf1369's picture

Don't do it man, you'll end up fucked in the head.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 03:12 | 4013069 Freddie
Freddie's picture

A dentist or soemone just filed a law suit saying the law is illegal because Obama keeps making exception and allowing some to opt out.  He cannot do that.  The law was passed and they cannot just wave their hand and make exceptions.  The GOP is somewhat on to that angle too.

I mean the country is a banana republic Stasi police state thanks to Obama so laws may not matter anyway.  Most of the judges know the Stasi/NSA has endless dirt on them.   East Germany had to have been better than this shit.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:37 | 4012715 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

ask an idiot a question, expect an idiotic answer.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:53 | 4012769 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” So (allegedly) said Winston Churchill.

And that my friends is how we get the political cesspool we currently have.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:20 | 4012845 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The smartest people I've ever met are uneducated.  But yes, there are plenty of idiots in the world.  Most of them run this shit.  The rest end up on TV.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:50 | 4013244 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Listen, education is not indicative of intelligence.

We have all these Ivy League guys running things and look what a mess we have.

You want a balanced budget, hire a single mom raising two kids as budget director, she'll have things straightened out PDQ.


Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:40 | 4012893 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Says the bloated blond bitch at the end of the clip "Thanks, you made me look stupid!"  Uh, no, honey, you made yourself look stupid, and what's worse, you don't understand the difference.

Is anyone else in favor of restricting voting to only those who have at least a basic understanding of the issues?  The people in that clip (if, of course, they weren't paid actors) scare me because they can only regurgitate talking points and haven't got the slightest freaking idea of the information implicit in those talking points, or the desire to research that information and verify its veracity through independent sources.  I miss critical thinking.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:52 | 4012917 Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

"I miss critical thinking."

Me too. He was a good rapper before he got shot.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:03 | 4012935 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

As you may know, the modern attention span lasts 140 characters including spaces (an example is seen below).

"Says the bloated blond bitch at the end of the clip "Thanks, you made me look stupid!"  Uh, no, honey, you made yourself look stupid, and wh"

Critical Thinking is a ship that long left the harbor.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:40 | 4013167 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

In a real world the weak and stupid generally perish. We have been living in an unreal world for a while but as with everything else in nature, reality cannot be defied indefinitely. I think we are slowly seeing a return to those laws and the weak and stupid will begin perishing at ever higher rates. Weakness and desperation have created a metric where statistically people spend a significant portion of their life's wealth in the last months of their life like with everything else today, trying to sustain the unsustainable.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:38 | 4012718 southerncomfort
southerncomfort's picture


Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:44 | 4012736 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture


Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:46 | 4012745 Keyser
Keyser's picture

We are doomed. 


Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:50 | 4012761 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

No, you may be. I'll be perfectly fine.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:44 | 4012746 Freedumb
Freedumb's picture

You'd think they had this figured out now with jewels like the USA PATRIOT Act and the DREAM Act. My assumption is all that we still need is the WORLD PEACE Act and the PERPETUAL WEALTH Act and then we can shutter this legislating operation for good as there will be nothing left to accomplish.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:51 | 4012758 fasTTcar
fasTTcar's picture

Let me guess, the WORLD PEACE ACT and the PERPETUAL WEALTH ACT will involve "repatriating" the nations silver/gold/oil/corn etc... from the evil property owners.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 05:19 | 4013128 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

You made me laugh. Thank you.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:46 | 4012749 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

The lowest common denominator decides elections. Prepare for a wild ride!

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:49 | 4012753 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

O Bomb a Care

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:51 | 4012755 Bear
Bear's picture

How do you think the Obama of Obamacare was elected?

Just give Obamacare a chance, afterall we have to use it to see what's in it!

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:54 | 4012771 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Because reading the wrapper is for fools!

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:50 | 4012756 sgorem
sgorem's picture

well shit, Hollywood Boulevard says it ALL doesn't it?

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:52 | 4012763 Bear
Bear's picture

And they call us a First World Country ... will wonders never cease

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:54 | 4012770 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Wasn't there a trust issue posted on ZH tonight ???....... this proves why. 

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 22:56 | 4012774 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Nothing affordable about the ACA or Obamacare.

All this illustrates is that people want affordable healthcare in the "land of the free" versus a profit mechanism to drive the middle class to abject bankruptcy to benefit lawyers, corporations, Big Pharma, and .gov.

Tear the whole fucking system down.  Only problem being - they will bleed every working family dry before the whole fucking Ponzi collapses in upon itself (barring armed revolution - but I hear "Dancing With the Stars" and "NFL" are gearing up).

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:53 | 4012918 Landrew
Landrew's picture

It's time to make health care insurance companies  ILLEGAL! Lower cost for patient and higher wages for health care professionals. Either we have single payer or ZERO insurance companies. It's not the doctors/nurses/techs bleeding us dry it's the INSURANCE companies!

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:10 | 4012946 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Your first sentence was right on...then you got retarded.

What, exactly, do you think "single payer" is? It's health insurance that's RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT.

It's the worst of both worlds.

Get a clue.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 02:07 | 4013045 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture

Sorry but it's YOU who has no clue.  Get informed about Australian Medicare for instance, which is funded by a 1.5% levy on taxable income - you can opt for private insurance too, but except for elective surgery reduced waiting and some anciliary benefits, you won't get better service in our excellent public hospitals.

We also have a pharmaceutical benefits scheme in which the max cost per prescription is $5.90.

There ain't much socialism left in Australia - after decades of privatizing and "out-sourcing" - but you Usans are so brainwashed that even some of the poorest imagine that they either in the same league as the 1%, or getting there.  You're as ill-informed as those muppets interviewed.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 05:34 | 4013130 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

The max. cost per item (PBS) is actually $36.10: Unless you are a Pensioner, you don't get to pay the reduced $5.90 fee until you reach the Safety Net threshold ($1390.60 for General Patients, whilst the limit is $354 for Concession (e.g. Pensioner) Patients, who then pay nothing for the rest of the year)

Note these figures are for MAXIMUM cost to the Patient: by agreeing to use generics rather than branded items, Patients can pay considerably less than the above, for example from the PBS listing - a generic pack of 30 Atenolol 50mg would cost the Patient $13.79, vs. the cost of Tenormin 50mg which would be $16.64.

"Our Excellent Public Hospitals"?? You don't get out much do you.  I have spent a lot of my career in numerous "Big Name" Aussie Public Hospitals, and trust me sunbeam, "excellent" is NOT a comment that comes to mind. Bureaucratic, wasteful, dogmatic, maybe, but certainly not excellent by any means (and I include the Private Hospitals too - including many "Big Name" Sydney and Canberra institutions where the post surgical infection rate leaves a lot to be desired . . . . . .) Then, we have all the extra bureaucracy of the Special Access Scheme for drugs not licenced in Australia (so we end up paying a bomb for drugs that may be bought OTC in the UK, France, Germany etc.) and the Section 100 (High Cost Drugs) Scheme, where the Federal Government pays if the drug meets their pretty narrow "useage criteria" but not if it doesn't, so us prescribers have to go "cap in hand" to the local Hospitals and ask if they would mind supplying it as a "compassionate supply" - and this is for known uses of these drugs, not something we dream up for the hell of it!

You want to see real excellence - visit France. The Best system in the World (at the moment, but it's costing them an absolute bomb!). Germany, Holland, UK, all very, very good, and certainly provide a far higher standard of Nursing care, and I believe Nursing Training than Down Under (purely on the basis of fewer errors, particularly medication errors (missed doses, wrong drug, wrong administration, wrong Patient . . .) - a problem that seems rampant in many Aussie hospitals, Public and Private alike). The standard of Nurse Training offered by the Florence Nightingale School of Nursing has always been regarded as World class (after all it was the first such School in the World!), but all the London trained nurses I've had the pleasure of working with are in a completely different league to the Aussie variety.

Exec. Summary: The system here isn't as great as you think by a very long way. Costly yes, Value for (public) money? a big NO!


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:53 | 4013175 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

THE government IS the largest insurance company in the world! They collectivise wealth to redistribute it to those who NEED it most. They use fear to motivate their market and have effectively become a "single payer" scheme for virtually everything BUT healthcare until now. Obamacare completes societal market capture and once they own it all, they own us. I'm sure the cattle, sheep and pigs feel very comfortable in their Farmer Provided Healthcare System. Of course those animals that become ill will only receive treatment as long as the costs do not approach the value of their carcass. In the end they will know who owns them. Intelligence demands the free range life over that of the coup, regardless how easy and comforable the lifestyle is.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:06 | 4012939 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

40 Takers and a mule.

Welcome to the ObamaPharm

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 10:02 | 4013520 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

"All this illustrates is that people want affordable healthcare"

And as I recall, one of the excuses they used for passing the ACA was to keep people from losing everything and filing for bankruptcy.

I predict record bankruptcies due to the ACA.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:02 | 4012791 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Look on the bright side! You're smarter than 98.9% of the country. That's're surrounded by fucking idiots. Enjoy the collapse.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:02 | 4012799 JR
JR's picture

“Grand Bargain for Liberty?” By Ron Paul , The Ron Paul Institute, 10/1/2011


“The American people would benefit if Obamacare was defeated or even delayed.

Obamacare saddles the American health care system with new spending and mandates which will raise the price and lower the quality of health care. Denying funds to this program may give Congress time to replace this bill with free-market reforms that put patients and physicians back in charge of health care. Defunding the bill before it becomes implemented can spare the American people from falling under the worst effects of this law…

“Instead of grand bargains of increased spending and taxes, those of us who support limited government and free markets should form a coalition with antiwar liberals to reduce spending on both the military industrial complex and domestic welfare programs. Instead of raising taxes on “the rich” we should also work to reduce all corporate subsidies. This “grand bargain” would truly be a win-win for the American people.

“Sadly, even if a congressional coalition to cut both warfare and welfare spending was formed, it would be unlikely to carry the day as long as the Federal Reserve is willing to enable Congress’s debt addiction by monetizing the debt. But this cannot last forever. At some point the Fed’s policies will result in hyper-inflation and an economic crisis that will force Congress to reduce spending. Hopefully, the growing number of Americans who are awaking to the dangers of our current path can convince Congress to reduce overseas militarism and begin an orderly drawdown of the welfare state before this crisis occurs.”

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:56 | 4012925 Landrew
Landrew's picture

ACA is a 400 billion dollar gift to pharma and INSURANCE companies! Time for insurance companies to get out of health care. When the insurance guy for my plan makes more than my doctor enough is enough! 

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 03:43 | 4013082 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is worse than that.  All healthcare jobs will be unionized govt jobs probably run by SEIU.  You will have post office type health care people aka Obama voters.   The quality of doctors and care will become a joke.  This is a lot what NHS in the UK is. 

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:04 | 4013138 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Have you or yours ever been in a UK NHS Hospital as a "customer" ??

Have you ever worked in the UK NHS in any capacity?

I'm reliably guessing that answer is "no" in each case.  I have, and if it wasn't for the excellence of UK NHS care I'd certainly be typing this from the afterlife.

Think about that Mate . . . .


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:09 | 4013188 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

None of us will live forever and as OUR life is OURS to live, it should be done freely. I appreciate intelligence and all of the knowledge that it has brought us but I still believe in freedom more. We should not have any SYSTEM forced down our throats. If our leaders cannot effectively explain it to us, if it is so much over our heads that we can't grasp it, we should not be forced to accept it. Today it seems the concept of freedom is that we get to do what ever we like WITH NO CONCIQUENCE. That is not freedom, that is theft. We have vastly more knowledge today than a hundred or even twenty years ago about how to take care of ourselves and live longer, but instead we are in a fight for our lives over a healthcare system that will effectively take that knowledge out of our hands and let our government make those decisions for us. In a world that seeks to eliminate the difference between hard work and sloth, frugality and suicidal spending, love and care of one's self with utter contempt for one's self, we are effectively commiting societal suicide. FOr all you progressives out there who bristle at any question of Darwinism, why do you utterly deny the concept of the survival of the fittest, and exactly what it was that theoretically made us what we are and got us to this point in evolution. Maybe this is how we leave this planet, how we flush humanity down the drain, by simply giving up.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:03 | 4012802 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

Americans are dumb, but these are Californians.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:11 | 4012825 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"What isn't fruits or nuts is flakes."

Unfortunately, a majority of the entire populace of the U.S.S.A. fits that description.

A continual dumbing-down, suburbanization, consumerization, and propagandization post WWII. 

Fatal case probably; but you never know - there may be enough good eggs to make an omelet.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:12 | 4012829 jomama
jomama's picture


Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:25 | 4012861 Long Sticks and...
Long Sticks and Stones's picture

Today's the day I owe $95 for who knows what. I feel like a criminal. These enslaving pricks want to stick me with another up to $ $$ who knows how much for absolutly nothing. What the fuck do I need to pay into your bullshit when I have seen a doctor one time. So for being fortunate enough to be the physical specimen that I am my future earnings up to I bet say 70% will be confiscated. Fuck that. I'm pissed fellow Americans. We have been conned again and this government is lost. Every fucking branch. What are we going to do about it? Defund the whole fucking thing. Tell your employer you want a 1099 from now on and make DHS come looking for it. To hell with these people. We don't need them they need us. Stand up you pussies and do something about this shit. The truckers are driving to DC this month around the 11th. They'll shut this whole fucking thing down for a few days. Lets all drive over there and have a pic nic on the lawn.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:09 | 4012926 Long Sticks and...
Long Sticks and Stones's picture

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:26 | 4012865 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

" do you believe an informed citizen is essential in a democracy"

If the questioning person was informed they would know that we are not a democracy. We are a representative republic.

We are so fucked.

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:33 | 4012875 Bear
Bear's picture

If you don't like ObamaCare (aka ACA) you're a f..k..g racist.  Notice the only guy that preferred ObamaCare over ACA was black. 

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:40 | 4012891 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Eat broccolli, spinach, etc...

Avoid hospitals at all costs or you may go bankrupt. Doctors who have their own clinic are easier to deal with since you're dealing with them one-on-one ... unless you are dumb enough to stumble into one of those hospital run/controlled doctor clinics where the doctors are 'employees' of the hospital and don't give a hoot how they treat you since their bonuses, etc are based on 'productivity' namely, what the hospital says, not based on patient care.

That's what several independent docs have told me.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:02 | 4013148 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Definitely avoid interventional procedures unless you REALLY DO NEED SURGERY.

If you are able to choose your Hospital, choose one with a low post-op infection rate - don't rely on "a short course of antibiotics to clear things up" especially for major joint surgery, because sometimes this doesn't work (and those "sometimes" are becoming a lot more common).

Do use the Pre-Op antiseptic wash you should be provided with. When you use it, leave it "on" for 5 minutes - it doesn't work instantly, and the longer you leave it on, the better the reduction in your normal body microbial population. If you can buy an extra pack or two, using it for two days prior to surgery has been shown to provide some extra benefit.

If you are having thoracic / cardiothoracic / major vascular surgery, ensure your teeth are in good order - untreated cavities / pulp / dentine infection can (and have) lead to endocarditis, especially where valvuloplasty is involved. Endocarditis can, and still does, kill efficiently.

Don't leave it all to your Medical / Surgical Teams - there's a lot you can do easily (and cheaply) that'll significantly reduce your chances of "problems", and as far as we know, we only live once . . . .





Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:42 | 4012901 blindman
blindman's picture

they might call it the
" mandatory death , both financial and physical,
by care act " ?
the informational database thereby established will
be worth a fortune though, a resource for bio statisticians
and others for the ages, mengeleian even.
"The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it." j.m.
i thought the single payer idea could have been
worked out alright but you have to eliminate the
federal reserve, any pie the banksters have their
thumbs in turns to poison and failure over time.
they turn everything into a skimming racket and then move on.
it is what they know and what they do.
it is not good public health policy.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 02:35 | 4013050 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 02:36 | 4013051 Setarcos
Setarcos's picture

Single payer works well.

In Australia there is a 1.5% Medicare levy on taxable income which fully funds good health-care for everyone, though you can take out private insurance - and many do - for extra benefits.

We also have the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme which sets a maximum of $5.90 per prescription ... overall: neither insurance nor drug companies can gouge.

Ain't socialism terrible.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:08 | 4013150 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

Gross distortion of the Australian situation.

First, the Medicare levy does not "fully fund" healthcare.  Healthcare is a state responsibility and public hospitals chew up a substantial part of state government budgets.  As in the US, the Fed govt decided to encroach on state responsibilities.  This it did by making healthcare grants from the Fed budget, of course with strings attached and a gross duplication of healthcare bureaucracies between Fed and State.  This was originally just part of the Fed budget.  Eventually it became so large they wanted to increase taxes to cover it, but being politicians decided to call the extra tax a "Medicare levy", but they spend money on healthcare from general taxation as well as the levy.

The total spent on healthcare and the healtcare bureaucracy by the Australian national government is substantially more than the Medicare levy.  In addition there is the state expenditure.  About 30% of NSW (the most populous state) expenditure is on healthcare.  About one quarter of that 30% is funded by a transfer payment from the national government (Data from NSW government budget papers). Even were all that quarter funded from the Medicare levy (it isn't), the state government would still be spending 22%+ of its budget on healthcare paid for from other state government revenues.

Healthcare expenditure is 19% of total national + state government expenditure.

Second, the majority of middle class Australians have private healthcare insurance.  Unlike the US this has always been a personal purchase rather than provided by employers, which does lead to better cost pressures.  That insurance is predominantly not for "extra benefits" suggested by Setarcos.  It is primarily for hospital treatment, allowing treatment in a private hospital and with a doctor of one's choice (whether in a private hospital or a public one).  This includes payment for typical out-of-hospital treatments for illnesses like cancer.

Thirdly, Australia, like most of the world, free-rides on the cost of pharmaceutical development which pharma companies mainly recoup in the US.  As long as they can recoup those costs in the US they are prepared to let governments in other countries force local pharmaceutical prices lower than would be the case in an open market.  In this respect, we are bludgers, because the US government tolerates this arrangement throughout the world.

Finally, while medical litigation occurs in Australia, it is not as endemic as in the US.

So, contrary to the claim by Setarcos, Australia does not have a "single payer system". The national government pays for some things, state governments pay for others, individuals and their health funds are also payers.  The 1.25% tax levy goes nowhere near covering Australian healthcare costs which, in aggregate, are currently around 8% of GDP.

And yes, socialism is terrible.


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:39 | 4013227 odatruf
odatruf's picture

Thank you for the fair and well informed post. The free ride most of the world is getting on drug R&D is spot on and few understand it. Yet so many Muppets want the US to 'reimport' the drugs from these compulsory license / price control states.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:17 | 4013283 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture

And how many understand the free ride big pharma gets? Taxpayers pay for the research and miffed's 200k yr salaries and then they (drug companies) still get to charge 500x markup? Perhaps the rest of the world has a better grasp of reality, hmmm?


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:20 | 4013158 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

From a "user" perspective the system works "sort of OK" now, but there are a LOT of ageing members of the Population, and that proportion is set to really increase over the coming years.

Add in the fact that Australians are, lets face it, hardly the healthiest bunch (too many calories in, too few out), and there is a justified concern right now as to whether we can even maintain the current level of expectation.

The "I've got Rights, Mate!" and "Pop a Pill to cure all ills" mindset is very entrenched, and this is going to cause a big societal problem not so very far down the track. The healthcare your Parents and Grandparents enjoyed in their twilight years will probably not be available to you or I (or anyone else for that matter), and I do not envy the Politicians who will have to deal with that little home truth!

Tue, 10/01/2013 - 23:50 | 4012911 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

This was on Jimmy Kimmel Live last night, and was picked up by others this morning, because it was so damn funny.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:07 | 4012940 JohnG
JohnG's picture

omg the stupid it hurts stop it!

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 10:50 | 4012988 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

this site is full of bots

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 00:55 | 4012996 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Here is a guy that sees through the curtain. Check this out for fun.:

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 02:01 | 4013042 evernewecon
evernewecon's picture




Is The Very Picture

Of Privatizing The Profits

And Socializing The Cost,

Where In Banking It's Such

Things As Interest Rates

Nursing The Banks But Bleeding

Savers And Currency Dilution.

So, Risk Equalization In Health

Care's Comparable To Bitcoin

In Banking.

ObamaCare was the false scapegoat

of the right and the naive scapegoat

of demagogues who obviously

live on privatizing profits and socializing

costs, and monopoly and privatization.

The fixed profit boxes per coverage tier

and the conforming of risk to that, and

the express rejection in open Congress

of a measure to repeal immunity from 

anti-trust highlights that the structure 

is an entitlement program for carriers

and an at-sufferance program for 


RomneyCare and ObamaCare are both

pre-texted privatizations of the sector.

If I had to choose between carrier-centric

and the old doctor/hosptital monopolies,

I'd choose the docs.

A patient/doctor centric, universally accessible,

risk equalized and thus tier-avoiding, and

skin-in-the-game ("accountable care") benefited

scheme (the latter per across the board minimum

required percentage) is democratic, allows full

choice for patients and doctors, simple, direct,

rational, efficient yet productive satisfying 

assuring trust-wise and patient-doctor, bed to

lab/lab to bed focused.

ObamaCare was written by the carriers everyone

was led to believe didn't want it, and, by pharma.,AET,UNH,WLP|D


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 05:06 | 4013122 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

I'm having a laugh, however this explains why the populace doesn't have a clue about what they are being sold. A bit scary, but perhaps some bright young thing can unmix the messages and get the truth out. If not, the cynical architects of a 7ft high obfuscation and scam girders will mate with the 73K pages of the US tax code.

It's always about the taxes. It's the power to destroy.


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 05:31 | 4013134 sbenard
sbenard's picture

And this is why freedom is being lost. These people are so ignorant and, even worse, complacent, that they think they are informed, and don't recognize their own ignorance. Liberty can not exist in a populace of such apalling ignorance.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:42 | 4013231 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

Exactly. To prove your point, check butchtrucks above.

You can't fix stupid.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:00 | 4013146 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

it's the same at work, people are stupid

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:08 | 4013152 Izznogood
Izznogood's picture

I bet if you offered a million dollar prize for the largest "Cornflakes Tree" these people would rush out and start planting cornflakes ...

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:00 | 4013159 Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture

Denninger hits a grand slam.... Heh Boehner You LYING SACK OF CRAP! Business Insider obtained the email exchange (which you can see below) in which Krone requests that they come up with a different cover story than Obamacare for the meeting. Oh John... John..... bet you wish these emails didn't exist, don't you? (You absolutely have to click on this link)...

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:17 | 4013293 DOT
DOT's picture

Trust nothing from Business Insider.


BTW Boner has always been a sack o shite.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:35 | 4013166 butchtrucks
butchtrucks's picture

Good on the Tea Party Republicans for standing up against the communistical outrage that is Obamacare.

But this is only a START.  They need to ensure the defunding of ALL socialist programs that are bringing this once great country to it's knees including Medicare, VA, Medicaid and Social Security. These government-run programs are just pandering to people’s laziness and lack of personal responsibility and are totally un-American.

In this country good health is not a birth-right – it is a privelage – and a privilege that should only be available to those who are hardworking, wealthy, and smart enough to pay for their own insurance.

We should not try and emulate socialist hell-holes like Australia, Canada or Scandanavia where every dead-beat can access free public health systems regardless of whether they’ve saved up to pay for it or not.

The US got to be great through people standing on their own two feet and taking responsibility for their own health and well being. Not one dime of my taxes should go towards supporting socialized free health care for those too lazy, poor, old, or stupid to look after themselves.

Medicare in particular is the worst socialist program ever introduced in this country (by another socialist Dem President – Lyndon Johnson in 1965). It’s a single payer government run program funded from taxes paid by you and me – to support old sick people we don’t even know.

Back in the ’60s the GOP fought long and hard to prevent this communistic system becoming law. As Ronald Reagan said at the time the Dems were trying to force this thing through “If you and I don’t stop Medicare then one of these days we are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free.”

George HW Bush Described Medicare in 1964 as “socialized medicine at its worst” and. Same with Barry Goldwater who said: “Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink.”

Social Security is another Communist program that needs to be abolished right now. Did you know that the U.S. Social Security program is the largest government program in the world and the single greatest expenditure in the federal budget, accounting for 20.8% of the total budget? Needless to say it was introduced by yet another socialistic Democrat President – Franklin Roosevelt back in the 1930s. And what is ‘social security’ ? Its nothing but a program to take hard-earned money from the likes of you and me to allow lazy old people who didn’t bother to save for their retirement during their working years to live high on the hog.

So good on the Republicans for declaring war on Obamacare. Now I just hope they will see fit to start unwiding the other socialist and communistical atrocities such as social security, Medicare, Medicade and VA – which are also totally unconstitutional and totally un-American.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:44 | 4013170 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture

So to sum up. Good health is just for the privileged?

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:52 | 4013246 Accounting101
Accounting101's picture

So I should assume that you will not be collecting Social Security or using Medicare when of age?

Right. It was a grand time when the elderly had no healthcare. That was a time in America when men were free. Just like now. We're free to spend half to two-thirds more on healthcare than anywhere else in the world. We are free to be looted by the Oligarchs.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 12:51 | 4014296 wtf1369
wtf1369's picture

I assume by your estimation the ACA is going to somehow cut the costs of medical care and thereby the insurance we all pay too much for? I personally don't see how anything will become more affordable once it's mandated by law to be purchased but maybe I'm missing something.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 06:54 | 4013178 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

The "bill" as the teabaggers are calling it, came out of the Supreme Court as law. Thanks, Republicans and teabaggers, for showing that you're irrelvant. The Supreme Court didn't need to consult you.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:32 | 4013217 Abaco
Abaco's picture

They also didn't consult the constitution or a dictionary. Tax and Penalty are not synonyms.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:04 | 4013270 therearetoomany...
therearetoomanyidiots's picture

I thought you guys were furloughed as non-essential????

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 12:47 | 4014275 wtf1369
wtf1369's picture

He's got free time on his hands. So he's spending it here unfortunately.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 12:03 | 4014057 GainByBrokenWindow
GainByBrokenWindow's picture

The Supreme Court doesn't make laws. Or it least it's not supposed to.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:03 | 4013185 Lumberjack
Lumberjack's picture


Angus King explains ‘murder’ quote he made in reference to Obamacare foes



AUGUSTA, Maine — Sen. Angus King said Tuesday that despite having told a reporter that opponents of the Affordable Care Act who urged college students not to buy health insurance were “guilty of murder,” he is ready to work with all political parties to improve the health care law.

“That’s a scandal — those people are guilty of murder in my opinion,” King told a reporter from in an article published Monday. “Some of those people they persuade are going to end up dying because they don’t have health insurance. For people who do that to other people in the name of some obscure political ideology is one of the grossest violations of our humanity I can think of. This absolutely drives me crazy.”


------------ About Angus King-------

King used his office as governor to promite his energy business and now sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee. 


Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:21 | 4013300 DOT
DOT's picture

Worst State in the Union for business formation:  Maine.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 07:22 | 4013201 Unstable Condition
Unstable Condition's picture

I think it's time to stop letting anyone who draws welfare/SNAP bennies vote.

It's a conflict of interest if you are living off the taxpayer without contributing anything to society while being able to vote yourself money...

Just sayin'

edit: I know, I know, that's racist.....pfft

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:03 | 4013265 therearetoomany...
therearetoomanyidiots's picture

another of the media's, and democrats, big lies....the majority of the poor in this country are WHITE.  

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 09:09 | 4013390 Reader1
Reader1's picture

I agree-no vote for you if I'm paying for you. 

Actually, I think we should go back to restricting the vote to property holders only.

5 acres.  You gotta own 5 acres to vote.  No extra votes for property in 2 states.

Our resident is always tossing out "skin in the game," well, this would be the ultimate Skin in the Game.

Just for the record-I need to buy 4.75 more acres to vote under my own plan. 

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 08:05 | 4013272 rtalcott
rtalcott's picture

My doctor gave me six months to live. I couldn't pay my bill. He gave me another six months

      -Henny Youngman

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 10:19 | 4013570 Mad Muppet
Mad Muppet's picture

One of my unwavering rules in life is to never watch anything with a laugh-track. It's always geared towards moronic sheeple, and is usually propagandic social engineering.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 11:02 | 4013756 Dark Space
Dark Space's picture

Yeah, how many smart people did your fake news crew approach that said, "no thank you, I'm not going to be on whatever show you're filming". I'm guessing dozens. Dozens more probably looked at them like they were idiots when the interviewers started comparing the act to itself. And 6 are idiots.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 11:57 | 4014025 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Republicans should be laffing there asses off at how they can manipulate the masses just by saying something over and over. Unfortunately for them there are still not enough stupid people buying their shit.

Wed, 10/02/2013 - 12:42 | 4014253 wtf1369
wtf1369's picture

Republican/Democrat, Republicrat/Democan. It makes no difference whether your being fucked with the red or blue dick, your still gettin fucked.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!