This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

30 Mindblowing Statistics About Americans Under The Age Of 30

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

Why are young people in America so frustrated these days?  You are about to find out.  Most young adults started out having faith in the system.  They worked hard, they got good grades, they stayed out of trouble and many of them went on to college.  But when their educations where over, they discovered that the good jobs that they had been promised were not waiting for them at the end of the rainbow.  Even in the midst of this so-called "economic recovery", the full-time employment rate for Americans under the age of 30 continues to fall.  And incomes for that age group continue to fall as well.  At the same time, young adults are dealing with record levels of student loan debt.  As a result, more young Americans than ever are putting off getting married and having families, and more of them than ever are moving back in with their parents.

It can be absolutely soul crushing when you discover that the "bright future" that the system had been promising you for so many years turns out to be a lie.  A lot of young people ultimately give up on the system and many of them end up just kind of drifting aimlessly through life.  The following is an example from a recent Wall Street Journal article...

James Roy, 26, has spent the past six years paying off $14,000 in student loans for two years of college by skating from job to job. Now working as a supervisor for a coffee shop in the Chicago suburb of St. Charles, Ill., Mr. Roy describes his outlook as "kind of grim."

 

"It seems to me that if you went to college and took on student debt, there used to be greater assurance that you could pay it off with a good job," said the Colorado native, who majored in English before dropping out. "But now, for people living in this economy and in our age group, it's a rough deal."

Young adults as a group have been experiencing a tremendous amount of economic pain in recent years.  The following are 30 statistics about Americans under the age of 30 that will blow your mind...

#1 The labor force participation rate for men in the 18 to 24 year old age bracket is at an all-time low.

#2 The ratio of what men in the 18 to 29 year old age bracket are earning compared to the general population is at an all-time low.

#3 Only about a third of all adults in their early 20s are working a full-time job.

#4 For the entire 18 to 29 year old age bracket, the full-time employment rate continues to fall.  In June 2012, 47 percent of that entire age group had a full-time job.  One year later, in June 2013, only 43.6 percent of that entire age group had a full-time job.

#5 Back in the year 2000, 80 percent of men in their late 20s had a full-time job.  Today, only 65 percent do.

#6 In 2007, the unemployment rate for the 20 to 29 year old age bracket was about 6.5 percent.  Today, the unemployment rate for that same age group is about 13 percent.

#7 American families that have a head of household that is under the age of 30 have a poverty rate of 37 percent.

#8 During 2012, young adults under the age of 30 accounted for 23 percent of the workforce, but they accounted for a whopping 36 percent of the unemployed.

#9 During 2011, 53 percent of all Americans with a bachelor’s degree under the age of 25 were either unemployed or underemployed.

#10 At this point about half of all recent college graduates are working jobs that do not even require a college degree.

#11 The number of Americans in the 16 to 29 year old age bracket with a job declined by 18 percent between 2000 and 2010.

#12 According to one survey, 82 percent of all Americans believe that it is harder for young adults to find jobs today than it was for their parents to find jobs.

#13 Incomes for U.S. households led by someone between the ages of 25 and 34 have fallen by about 12 percent after you adjust for inflation since the year 2000.

#14 In 1984, the median net worth of households led by someone 65 or older was 10 times larger than the median net worth of households led by someone 35 or younger.  Today, the median net worth of households led by someone 65 or older is 47 times larger than the median net worth of households led by someone 35 or younger.

#15 In 2011, SAT scores for young men were the worst that they had been in 40 years.

#16 Incredibly, approximately two-thirds of all college students graduate with student loans.

#17 According to the Federal Reserve, the total amount of student loan debt has risen by 275 percent since 2003.

#18 In America today, 40 percent of all households that are led by someone under the age of 35 are paying off student loan debt.  Back in 1989, that figure was below 20 percent.

#19 The total amount of student loan debt in the United States now exceeds the total amount of credit card debt in the United States.

#20 According to the U.S. Department of Education, 11 percent of all student loans are at least 90 days delinquent.

#21 The student loan default rate in the United States has nearly doubled since 2005.

#22 One survey found that 70% of all college graduates wish that they had spent more time preparing for the "real world" while they were still in college.

#23 In the United States today, there are more than 100,000 janitors that have college degrees.

#24 In the United States today, 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees.

#25 Today, an all-time low 44.2 percent of all Americans between the ages of 25 and 34 are married.

#26 According to the Pew Research Center, 57 percent of all Americans in the 18 to 24 year old age bracket lived with their parents during 2012.

#27 One poll discovered that 29 percent of all Americans in the 25 to 34 year old age bracket are still living with their parents.

#28 Young men are nearly twice as likely to live with their parents as young women the same age are.

#29 Overall, approximately 25 million American adults are living with their parents according to Time Magazine.

#30 Young Americans are becoming increasingly frustrated that previous generations have saddled them with a nearly 17 trillion dollar national debt that they are expected to make payments on for the rest of their lives.

And this trend is not just limited to the United States.  As I have written about frequently, unemployment rates for young adults throughout Europe have been soaring to unprecedented heights.  For example, the unemployment rate for those under the age of 25 in Italy has now reached 40.1 percent.

Simon Black of the Sovereign Man blog discussed this global trend in a recent article on his website...

Youth unemployment rates in these countries are upwards of 40% to nearly 70%. The most recent figures published by the Italian government show yet another record high in youth unemployment.

 

An entire generation is now coming of age without being able to leave the nest or have any prospect of earning a decent wage in their home country.

 

This underscores an important point that I’ve been writing about for a long time: young people in particular get the sharp end of the stick.

 

They’re the last to be hired, the first to be fired, the first to be sent off to fight and die in foreign lands, and the first to have their benefits cut.

 

And if they’re ever lucky enough to find meaningful employment, they can count on working their entire lives to pay down the debts of previous generations through higher and higher taxes.

 

But when it comes time to collect… finally… those benefits won’t be there for them.

Meanwhile, the overall economy continues to get even weaker.

In the United States, Gallup's daily economic confidence index is now the lowest that it has been in more than a year.

For young people that are in high school or college right now, the future does not look bright.  In fact, this is probably as good as the U.S. economy is going to get.  It is probably only going to be downhill from here.

The system is failing, and young people are going to become even angrier and even more frustrated.

So what will that mean for our future?

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:07 | 4024168 90's Child
90's Child's picture

We the lost generation bitchez

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:09 | 4024180 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

posture bitchez back at ya

 

 

jb

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:11 | 4024189 90's Child
90's Child's picture

At least I can say I'm gettin paid.

http://imageshack.com/a/img822/5774/tue2.png

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:20 | 4024213 McMolotov
Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:23 | 4024225 90's Child
90's Child's picture

That's a counterfeit.

Obama on the trill

Ben on the 100m

And little Ben Netanyahu on the 10m everyone. Knows that.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:28 | 4024248 cifo
cifo's picture

Waiting for the big RESET.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:41 | 4024278 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

If this keeps going, the college/university system as we currently know it will collapse as more and more young adults refuse to go into debt for an education with no hope of realizing gainful employment upon graduation.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:48 | 4024291 90's Child
90's Child's picture

That's funny, cause everyone I know from graduation class completed college this year. And only gained four years of debt to show for it.

So you logic on "gainful employment upon graduation" is skewed.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:10 | 4024370 Shocker
Shocker's picture

The Job Market is turning from Full Time, Good Pay to Part Time, Minimum Wage.

Current Job Situation - http://www.dailyjobcuts.com

/

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:53 | 4024933 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The 30 mind-blowing stats mirror the decline of all the factors that matter in the "nurture" part of the nature/nurture debate.

Brought up on a diet of diet drinks and high fructose corn syrup, flouride in the water from birth, a totally artificial and manufactured food diet, too much sick meat, chemtrails, television, music's parallel descent.........

It really is a chicken and egg thing....

The signs of a nation in decline (or put into programmed decline). What is daunting is to consider is how much needs to change for anything to change.  All or nothing.

man internally divided, everything outside him is obviously similarly fragmented.

now how do you "save" the millenials? 

....

ori

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/the-spirit-of-india-in-one-picture/

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:45 | 4025089 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Teach em to plant Kale?

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 03:22 | 4025170 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

It's all about the chard. Sautee with minced garlic in olive oil and balsamic vinegar till cooked. Holla.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 08:07 | 4025303 malikai
malikai's picture

My prediction:

In 2100, the former US(*)A will be the low-cost laborer of the world.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 08:42 | 4025324 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

"who majored in English before dropping out"

 

ummm....how the fuck would you expect an english major to pay off big when you drop out before completing it

and that ladies and gentlemen is the problem with this generation

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:23 | 4025364 malikai
malikai's picture

Come on.. Could you withstand an English major course?

I know I couldn't. Wouldn't choose it either, for that matter.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:14 | 4025424 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Isn't that kind of the point? From Obama on down it is drummed in that "college needs to be accessible" (not affordable, mind you) in order to guarantee success in our "globalized" "competitive" new paradigm. It doesn't matter... just pick something. Reality sets in when they realize that only limited numbers of English Majors can score by turning around and preying on the next victims as an "educator".  

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:29 | 4025443 malikai
malikai's picture

Not necessarily. A good friend of mine has an MA in English. He's also an excellent programmer.

Anyway, the future isn't all dark clouds for English majors.. Just better learn to enjoy real Chinese food.

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/china/

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 13:18 | 4025465 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Reality sets in when they realize that only limited numbers of English Majors can score by turning around and preying on the next victims as an "educator"."

lol...too true.

And this is just so rich I just have to share it.

Everyone, meet Chad Henderson.

Apparently one of the only two or three Americans who was actually able to navigate the bureaucratic labyrinth that is, buying ObamaScare...supposedly.

Cept, he really didn't buy anything:

http://reason.com/archives/2013/10/04/obamacare-chad-henderson-father

So why again was he put Forward! as having been able to sign up & buy so easily?

Well, you have to know who he really is don't you? Here he is:

/////////////////////

"I'm often labeled "the guy who always talks about politics" and it normally has negative effects lol so I'm here to clear things up: If you were to hang out with me one night and you'll see (sic) I'm not that obsessed with politics at all. Yes, I do post political stuff on here and other social networking sites. But it's for a good reason. For one, I think it's good if people get some insight into the world they live in. Secondly, I work for an organization that pays me quarterly to posts (sic) the political stuff as "advocacy" (so it's kind of my job)."

//////////////////////

A paid shill in Orgainizing For America...I know, I know...its shocking right?

I'm sure the state-run media will be all over this after they scrape the shit out of their eyes...lol.

Screen shots:

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/03/instant-celebrity-obamacare-applicant-turns-out-to-be-ofa-volunteer-president-of-young-democrats-group/

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:20 | 4025435 petolo
petolo's picture

"I have an MA IN ENGLISH literature . Do you want fries with that?"

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:07 | 4025415 Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

Which begs the question whether all these national work ethic myths are jut a hoax on the gullible so they ignore the far more important credit cycle. Remember when the Japanese were all super men carrying out an economic miracle? Asian Tigers? BRICS?
What happened in India with all the new billionaires. Heard the currency just lost 30 percent of its value and they are talking about robbing thousand year old temples.

None of my business what happens in these places but the pattern seems to be repeating itself all over the world. I grew up in the shadow of housing bubbles. Walked through whole districs that are empty in atleast 4 different countries. See generations of kids wanting to become architects or real estate agents because thats where they thought the money was. The ideas were fed to us in everything we saw. Sad thing was looking out of a bedroom window was enough to see the empty houses. Keeping in touch with freinds was enough to know people were losing jobs in these sectors.  

Watch out for the countries with growth miracles and new billionaires Alot of these people are frauds. All they did was get themselves and lots of other people in debt buying shit these countries probably could have eventually got a hold of If they had been patient. The African's have been falling for it for the last few centuries with terrifying results.

We are being fed something new now. Lots of talk of fire. Lots of talk of revolution. Alot of anger against alot of different people. Its more foolishness coming from the same sources. Why Occupy the banks now they are almost as fucked as we are? Why hate the immigrants now they are here because they fell for this shit in their home countries as well? 

We had a choice about whether we took the poison. Be it MTV, Coca Cola, crack cocaine, insane housing bubbles or mass immgration etc. What worries me is people are going to go deeper into fantasy land. They made bad choices and now they want out. They'll blame someone else for the problems they had and follow anyone who offers to maintain a way of life that never even fucking existed.

I'm seeing this poison seeping out now in the direction of your "Regional India"  with this whole rape thing. I know girls talking about how they heard how Indian men are bad and they have a "huge problem" with them raping women. Be honest I;d be more worried if there were no rapes in India a nation of one Billion people. I never knew of such a problem existed before and to be frank I never gave a shit what Indian men got up to with Indian women, but being a black guy I'm also 100 percent sure these rumours have been spread about us too at some point. The fact that this shit is getting stirred up at the exact same time it looks like the economic "miracle" is coming to an end is too much fucking coincidence for me. You do realize that western women have alot of power in turns of swaying public opinion. Every enemy we ever had in Britain has always been called a rapist if only to make sure our women hate them as well. Are Indian men now the enemy? You've gone from Raj from Big Bang Theory to arch rapists in the eyes of the gullible. Weird.  

I think they are going after the family unit in India. Pit the women against the men. Undermine the ultra macho Hiindu nationalists and their system which has stood the test of time for thousand years. They say the temples are lined with gold and that in itself is enough to turn broke westernized secular liberals against you. Talk enough and they'll the see the rejection of progressive ideals as proof the conservativess guilt. Throw in Secretarian tensions, Caste struggle, Maoists and nuclear weapons in to the mix and you'll realize the subcontinent is in a big a mess as anybody else. 

I like what you write ORI but i feel like your kind of a cliche bit like Sawyer and Anonyamous. If you are who you say are I tell you to watch the fuck out ORI your people took the poison as well.  

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:32 | 4025448 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Very very incisive commentary and insights there Maghreb. Almost every point you make. This is a time for the demonization of everything that really makes up the fabric of any society. Just like it was done to the US starting with the 60's when the rug was yanked out from under american society with engineered rebellion, drugs, flower power etc. etc.....

Rape is the new anti-male mantra here. And since you are black, remember the freed black slaves were always rapists. the "red" indians always were rapists....

Old game by the brits and whoever it was that designed their divide and rule technique.

Well said all around and yes, India is very much in the "hem"lock. Receeding hems, for sure!

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/whither-india/

 

ori

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 12:53 | 4025721 buttmint
buttmint's picture

Maghreb...many good points, but have you lived in India for more than a years' time?

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:44 | 4025088 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

You want fries with that?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:28 | 4038647 masonman
masonman's picture

That is the most depressing website I have ever seen

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:30 | 4038649 masonman
masonman's picture

That is the most depressing website I have ever seen

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:12 | 4024379 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

if they slaughter us, i will understand

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:04 | 4024539 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

As a young American under the age of thirty looking at the state of things, most of the core problems today were started 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. I have to say, the Boomer generation seems to have completely dropped the ball.

You can't even say "We voted for Obama." (Obviously I did not.) The country had been changing for so long under the watch and care of older generations, that the millenials simply were not responsible. They were born into a mess that had already been set in motion.

My generation was not on the watch as the dollar was decoupled from gold, the entitlement state created, the military industrial complex created, the growth of the government workforce, the growth of professional banana republic sports, and diminishing lessons about the constitution.

 

But lest we forget, the Federal Reserve is the root of all evil.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:27 | 4024595 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You are better informed than your peers. The bottom line answer is liberty. The twentieth century was the century of socialism. People from the FDR era to present still have religious faith in governments. They will not easily lose that faith and as long as they can get a 51% vote they will continue to vote more free stuff, vote not to pay for it and vote for the guy who says you and even people younger than you will be very happy to pay for it.

Personally, I think there will have to be some form of an intergenerational revolt or the system just collapses on its own.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:42 | 4024912 RECISION
RECISION's picture

An army of unemployed... will eventually become... an army.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:07 | 4025044 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Incisive insight there recision, brilliant in fact.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 04:56 | 4025215 tenpanhandle
tenpanhandle's picture

and then,unfortunately for them, they'll be sent to Syria.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:09 | 4025418 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

psst... revolutionaries, not soldiers

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:43 | 4024916 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Politicians are bought and paid for by the banking/financial-multinational corporation complex (which the military-industrial complex is part of).

There's never been a time in U.S. History where allegedly "elected" representatives were less loyal to or concerned with the direct best interests of the American People, including those even in their own districts.

The banking/financial-multinational corporation complex has completely captured all 3 branches of American Government, and these 3 branches now run on & perpetuate themselves off of the resources that global concerns, having no allegiance to any particular nation, funnel their way.

In other words, allegedly sovereign governments, including that of the United States of America, not only operate on a day-to-day basis that is dismissive of doing things that are in the best interests of their citizens, but incredibly, they actually operate in a manner whereby they do things that are antithetical to the best interests of their citizenry.

Deep Capture has been accomplished.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:20 | 4025356 BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

The solution is not political. People are asking one group of politicians (2nd tier at that) to do what their 1st tier brethren are incapable of doing- act with honor and integrity to uphold the word and spirit of the Constitution. They want the lion to lay down with the lamb.

The people, as communities, are more capable of succession than the States. Like minded Americans, who believe in liberty are all that is needed. Succession is a state of mind.

In this whole world filled with an infinity of variables, where butterfly wings in Beijing create storms in the midwest, where every single human live lives of unique experiences- how is it that history continues to repeat itself? If every choice creates a new future and everyone makes different choices- why are the results always the same? 

Where is the evolution of thought? Why are we stuck on the same questions pondered by the Greeks and others? Why has society remained the same for the last ten thousand years? Systems of slaves and masters.

History repeats itself because the world is controlled and manipulated for the benefit of a special class. Religions become tools. Politics become tools. Economics become tools. Science becomes a tool. Education becomes a tool.

When the end result of all our technology, learning and philosophy is a failure to develop liberty and fulfillment or worse, the complete and utter intransience of a social system that has all the hallmarks of slavery being perpetuated forever, should we not question whether there is a source point that controls humanity? **

 

** Originally posted a couple of years ago by Sean7K and one of my top 10 favorite ZH posts.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:48 | 4025468 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

TIS,

What you wrote is fairly obvious... the real question is, now what. What are some paths to get us out of this stranglehold? We need ideas / alternatives.

I think the origin of this is the corruption of the concept of money and exchange. I think the corruption you describe reveals the failure of the structure of governmental organization and requires us to reconsider how to organize to further limit or eliminate corruption. Like the mob, we will not get rid of government... we created one to help protect ourselves from others in our communities... so the real task is, how to organize governance to achieve the necessary tasks, without allowing for the participants in that governance from becoming coopted.

My solution to that is randomness and chaos, frequent and unpredictable changes in who is governing... anyway, the republic will not stand because it is a model of oppression... the few decide for the many... those few are still deciding, we just don't like their decisions. What we are living through is the republic model of governance on a multi-national scale... new world order indeed.

The only salvation for humanity is democracy, rule by the people, but the task then is to entice everyone to become informed / involved... but to make it more defensible against corruption, the people choose their governers from among themselves, unpredictably, for very short terms... term limits. No nepotism, longevity, no career in governance. No standing governers. Governance arises like self evolving systems, when governance is required, like a lynch mob or road crew, or a board of education, but only when needed and with various rules in place. The citizens control whether a governer can continue in their role for the duration of their term, and can freely replace them by consensus.

What we need to resurrect is concern for the community and welfare of others, instead of concern only for the self. It's a fine line we need to travel... self-development / self-satisfaction and the development / satisfaction of others. It's often portrayed as though these are mutually exclusive, which is false and a lie perpetrated by the oligarchs... concern for self and others simultaneously is the only way to a truly prosperous and healthy civilization. Given adequate education and opportunities, most people would not end up disenchanted / lazy, they would be energized to participate. Only people who have no say, have no hope, have no opportunities become lazy... and also those who only worship money... no extracurricular hobbies / passions / motivations, just ambition to acquire money. When not earning money, they dawdle.

We are not doomed, we are allowing the doom. We can stop it as soon as people start questioning everything they have been taught to believe. I have concluded I will be long dead before that happens, because a good 99.9999999999% of people are actually believers, not undependent thinkers, and our only hope is in disbelief and independent thought.

 

 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:28 | 4025068 drunkenlout
drunkenlout's picture

"intergenerational revolt"  I'm in the grandpa generation, but I'm gonna fight with the youngsters.


Sat, 10/05/2013 - 03:08 | 4025158 Confused
Confused's picture

I hope you meant NOT going to fight with the youngsters. Because apart from the absurdity of this type of divide, they have less to lose. 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 07:35 | 4025277 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

Wanker!

Anyone over the age of 50 has HAD all the advantages of the easy living system they voted to pay for off the work of the following generations.

The young have a LOT more to lose you fucking dick. They can live in a system that treats everyone fairly, albeit at a lower standing of living than the older generations can to expect. But not if they are reduced to slavery to keep the entitled elderly high on the hog. Which seems to be the fucking plan.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 08:22 | 4025312 malikai
malikai's picture

1. Voting is an individual choice, not a class choice, despite our best efforts to simplify reality.

2. Voting doesnt mean shit anymore except for revealing one's own brainwashing to believe in voting as an effective political action mechanism.

Really? You're going to go to war with and wipe out an entire class of people just because they 'had the advantages of the easy living system', even though many of them may had disagreed with them?

In 20 or 30 years or so, we'll be well on to the other side of Hubbert's curve. When kids then learn of your own oil usage today, should they then exterminate you, I, and everyone else alive in our times for taking advantage of it?

Wars are won or lost before they are faught. The fighting just tells us as dumb groups, who has won.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:01 | 4025339 Abaco
Abaco's picture

Faulty assumption that anyone over the age of 50 voted for the leviathan.  

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:01 | 4025406 CH1
CH1's picture

Anyone over the age of 50... they voted to...

No. Most of them, but not all of them.

In addition - you have a LOT better info today than we had in 1974.

Your comments are not without merit, but don't spread them on too tick.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 12:56 | 4025734 buttmint
buttmint's picture

Touche! drunkenlout, am in agreement, The youngsters are getting a raw deal of debt that was not even in our mindscape when we were of their age. I'd throw forces in with "the kids." They have energy, are smart, just need a bit of coaching and guidance we might be able to provide.....

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:40 | 4024632 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

None of the things you mentioned have anything to do with the boomer generation, we came after. We have all watched, some of us in horror, as our country has been revealed to us through age and diligence. While we didn't have the internet, we did have plenty of books to point the way, but we failed to discover them.

Perhaps your greatest gift from us is that you have nothing to want to be an American for. If your government is foul, criminal and without redemption, maybe you should consider replacing it and defaulting on the zionist debt. I see no reason why you should be saddled with these problems we have done nothing to fix.

Why fight wars for corporations? Stop joining the military. Why work for minimum wage? Start black market economies with real money. Obamacare? Tell them to find another fool. Taxes? Evade them. Buy land and move multiple families on them and divide the tax. Share vehicles, ride bikes, and stop buying all the useless crap that fills every yard and garage.

Stop being consumers and become producers and stop giving your life's work for a debt you never created. Please.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:08 | 4024958 NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

You watched, like that somehow excuses the FACT that the ramp up in the decline happened under the "Boomers", shameful.  Oh and BTW I'm 42 and have been fighting this since I was 25 and got out of the Army when I figured out the "Game that my Boomer parents led me into, and still refuse to see.  I will sit and watch all the Boomers suffer horribly without shedding a tear or lending a hand.  NO ONE I know in my age group is doing well all are pay check to pay check, but every Boomer I know is planning their annual winter pilgrimage to Florida for the winter.

 

Fuck the Boomers, selfish, self center arrogant whiny pricks.

 

~ Nemo

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 04:01 | 4025191 antidisestablis...
antidisestablishmentarianismishness's picture

And fuck all the 42 year old arrogant whiny dickheaded pricks too.  You and your cohorts have had 20+ years to fix the problems and you've FAILED by your own admission.  Is that the Boomers' fault?  When does anything become YOUR fault? I mean the Boomers can just as easily blame THEIR parents for planting the seeds of destruction. 

You apparently have some sort of idealized view of the pre-Boomer world, but I guarantee you that the so-called "greatest generation" was just as full of shit as every other generation before and since. The Boomers turned their parents' world on it's head because it needed to happen. What the fuck has your generation done besides whine about only having the 2nd most lavish lifestyles in the history of Planet Earth, behind only your own parents?

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 08:24 | 4025283 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Nemo,

If you are truly as aware as you purport yourself to be, you would know most boomers are not planning winter pilgrimages to Florida. Most have minimal savings or none at all. They live paycheck to paycheck, working long past what they thought they would have to. They are scrambling to survive and will live in poverty in their "retirement". 

This is not a plea for sympathy, as I said, we didn't do what was required- replace our government. However, I see no rebellion in your generation either, just generational warfare, the type that tears a nation apart for the benefit of the elites. Your animosity shows you have NOT figured out the game, but are playing an instrumental part in the division necessary to rule an angry people.

You do seem to have a deep seated issue with your parents, one's you have not been brave enough to discuss in a rational manner. Your parents may not agree with you or see the tyranny that surrounds them, but they do love you. It is hard to tear down an edifice that has been kind to you financially. History is replete with examples.

As for the ramp up to the decline, you need to start blamng the northern industrialists, Lincoln and espcially later, FDR, because that is when it started. Like all generations, they watched and went along. There were hearlds then as well, but they were dismissed and marginalized. 

Anger is never conducive to good judgement. Most of us selfish, self centered, angry pricks are on your side.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:04 | 4025345 Abaco
Abaco's picture

Groupthink and sterotyping might be one reaon you don't know anyone in your age group doing well. That and I suspect you are looking for a well payig job instead of trying to create one.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:22 | 4025063 mrpxsytin
mrpxsytin's picture

You're right that we weren't around when all those things were done. But I bet we would have done exactly the same things if we were around... 

The avergage IQ is only 100. And a lot of people sit below the mean. This is true for any generation. Our generation is just as ignorant as the previous ones. To think that we would have done anything different is really naive. 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 03:11 | 4025160 Confused
Confused's picture

Most rational response yet. Easy to look back and blame. Easy to look at current generation and call them lazy. Not so easy, however, to say "hey, we are no different." 

 

Of course there have always been pockets of those that stood out against the system. But time and time again they have been marginalized. 

 

At one time they were called hippies. ;-P 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:45 | 4024647 strangewalk
strangewalk's picture

Too many fake degrees. Those with majors in the sciences, engineering, accounting etc can always get a good job. Those with degrees in LGBT studies, or similar, maybe not

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:14 | 4024855 Gift Whores
Gift Whores's picture

I went to college.

I make juice cups.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:58 | 4025030 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Degrees are just more paper, and finally it's asswipe.  I went to university to study poetry, philosophy, and writing.  I had a great time.  I left when I was satisfied, without a degree.  That was nearly 15 years ago, and by now I consider myself pretty much unemployable.  Of course, in the interim, I've built a thriving small business and created a few jobs for others.  Competence matters; and paper degrees are just another ponzi.

The notable exception seems to be a PhD in science--I have a couple friends with those, and they seem to have carte blanche with respect to job opportunities, but they are also preeminently competent in addition to having their degrees.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 03:18 | 4025165 Confused
Confused's picture

Science, Programming, Engineering and (believe it or not) Professors (in Sciences, naturally) have the most opportunities available. Anywhere in the world. These folks are needed everywhere. People uproot their entire lives in parts of the world to study these fields. And they are rewarded afterwards. 

Accountants, lawyers, MBAs etc....these are a dime a dozen. This is just my experience, which is the result of living in 4 countries, and from all the people I've come in contact with. 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:42 | 4024914 Lets Hang Parliament
Lets Hang Parliament's picture

Never let schooling get in the way of your education. Mark Twain
"Schooling" is mostly brainwashing and people borrow money for this??!!

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:18 | 4024977 Rathmullan
Rathmullan's picture

The worst value proposition on the planet --- unless you can mange to get into hawvud, whale, princesston, scamford, or wart-on. Degrees from those elitist pieces of crap are membership into that club that the law doesn't reach.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 08:31 | 4025319 Landrew
Landrew's picture

What you are saying is not true. The universiity system is working well, just not for North Americans. The system functions perfectly well with Indian and Chinese students paying as much as 120% tuition to enter American universities. Many states depend on Americans trying to enter and being forced out to collect the easy first two years tuition and then fill the open spots with more foreign students. The path the profit without regards to educating our young. TPTB don't care who they profit from. The only way this turns around is if we can take back our country from the 1% and put OUR OWN back to work with the jobs they claim they can't fill with American workers! Take our country back now and force the 1% to pay taxes here rather than in Ireland @ 14%!

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:23 | 4025436 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

Landrew so true. I went to a friends graduation (master in IT) last May and he was one of the two white American kids...all the rest were Indain, Chinese, Iranian or Russian.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:21 | 4025358 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Pure Evil,

 

You're missing the point, what you describe is a condition that was already factored in on the path to a much larger objective. Extortionate education costs and non-existent employment opportunities = eminently compromised population, extremely pliable / controllable population.

 

This is looking like a win-win for the oligarchs...

you risk going to school and you end up with significant and likely insurmountable debt...

you risk not going to school and you possibly end up with substantially less intellectual experimentation and flexibility...

add to this that the pre-college educational system is also under assault, and you see the extent to which future generations might miss educational opportunities, therefore becoming much more ignorant / lacking intellectual prowess.

 

Humanity has an opportunity, but those opportunities will not arise from places like ZH where it's all about self-loathing. Instead, progress will come from others. The opportunity is to say FUCK YOU to the oligarchs. Some Professionals and Educators have been discussing free public education... they take over to provide the education the oligarchs are disassembling. The young should continue to pursue education from whatever source available. The disenfranchised should gather and brainstorm, assemble their own organizations to pursue their own continued development... make stuff, design stuff, invent stuff. With crowd sourced funding,they could start to achieve some productive meaningful niche in society.

Everyone who is disgusted by what's happening could help...instead of buying shares or bonds of the assholes destroying civilization, infuse these upcoming organizations with that cash, do some good for a change.

We need to move from being crippled by the machinations of the civilization being collapsed, we need to establish and exit into a parallel civilization, one where we build more humane enterprises. I know, socialism, communism, somethingelseism... we have an opportunity to invent, but people are instead mostly waiting for collapse or a savior. Do something... something grandchildren will be proud of you for doing and grateful to you for having done it.

 

I have taught and can teach, i can build things, i can make things, i can fix things, i can design things, i can invent / innovate / imagine... i can do something, which is why i do. If education is too expensive, go start a free school with others who want to help and offer the education for free, to circumvent the oligarchs. Hire people. Feed people. Start brainstorming sessions with groups of the disenfranchised. Help them remain current, even become the van guard. Take responsibility for the welfare of others, don't just watch them drown. Help them defeat the oligarchs, help yourself defeat the oligarchs.

 

This is why distributed and individually owned solar / wing / wave / kinetic / geothermal / thermoelectric / bio-chemical energy is so necessary... we don't have to recede into the dark ages, we just have to wrestle the energy stronghold away from the oligarchs. Without energy, we can't build that parallel civilization, and with energy, we can build a thriving advanced civilization. Start by buying or making a device that can produce at least some energy.

 

Go do something positive and we can win.

 

 

 

 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:42 | 4025389 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Crowdfunding...  But the funding should give you an equity stake, not the current 'gifting' BS.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 11:29 | 4025524 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Get involved deeply enough, before you start establishing criteria you might abandon later. What I'm saying is, get involved and see what happens, then decide on the criteria for your continued participation. Give it time and opportunity to not be just like the world we have been living in... ideally it will be different, better.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 11:27 | 4025522 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

* wind energy, not wing. :/

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:43 | 4024913 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Looking around since 1980, I am on reset 4.0 and it still hasn't happened. This shitola has been going on for many moons so don't start thinking the current version is special.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 07:29 | 4025270 Obese-Redneck
Obese-Redneck's picture

Dear America,

Welcome to the rest of the world.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Sincerely,

The Unexceptional REST OF THE WORLD

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:28 | 4025372 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Make them as miserable and hopeless as possible. They are setting them up for next great dictator. Didn't Hitler come ot power on the back of a great economic catastrophe?  TPTB are playing chess while we play checkers.

FORWARD ASS NAPKINS!

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:29 | 4025375 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Make them as miserable and hopeless as possible. They are setting them up for next great dictator. Didn't Hitler come to power on the back of a great economic catastrophe?  TPTB are playing chess while we play checkers.

FORWARD ASS NAPKIN!

Maybe Obama as Satan, the Iranis have got something there...

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 11:34 | 4025536 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Try harder.  Every generation gets told how tough it is. Bullshit.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:37 | 4024269 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Too bad the millenials forgot how to learn how to play actual musical instruments, otherwise we would be in for some good music from them.  

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:02 | 4024340 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Children under 36 are mentally disabled...thank you touchy_feely_bs_communist propoganda_machine...not all but most are without garage logic common sense.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:35 | 4024459 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

"said the Colorado native, who majored in English before dropping out"

Yeah, great example there. I mean where did this poor guy go wrong?English degrees are in serious demand all the time, aren't they?! Oh wait, on top of his major, which might as well be Underwater Basket Weaving for all the good it'll do him, he dropped out halfway through and didn't even get a degree! But you know, not his fault it's society and the Man keepin him down.

They're not Gen Y folks, they're Gen E (Entitlement). They think a rainbow colored unicorn just runs among them all day shittin out pots o gold and life is a dream. WTF!

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:55 | 4024511 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Seriously, anyone who borrows money to get a degree in English is an idiot, plain and simple. What that guy was really doing was "living the college lifestyle (sex, drugs, parties, etc.) while taking a major that would require a minimal amount of work". Well, guess what? You had your fun for four years, or five or six, and now the bills are coming due. 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:22 | 4024579 pitz
pitz's picture

Sure, but the same high unemployment, poor employment prospects is happening to people with 'good' degrees like engineering.  Who did not party.  The whole partying and drinking thing is a stereotype for the most part.  Yes, there are a few campuses and colleges that are worse than others, but generally, people do not set out to blately waste daddy's money. 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:17 | 4024719 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Recent engineering grads may well be having a rough time, but I have to wonder how much of it is because their overall skills are a bit low. In the real world a very large number of young engineers are borderline illiterate.  I work in metal fabrication manufacturing and deal with them (and their screwups) on a regular basis, and the number of them who use English on a low high school level is astounding.  Add in what is often a fair degree of social retardation among those who go into it and the end product of our degree mills isn't a particularly exciting prospect.

Pretty much all the engineering programs crank out now is kids who can make nice models on a computer that frequently run into serious issues when actual manufacturability comes into play because they have no idea of materials or how to actually make anything. There are some who are definitely talented (and I am of course generalizing about engineers as a group) but the average graduate just is not impressive.  An illiterate, socially awkward modeller with only a dim understanding of tolerances and materials only has so much use.

Of course I may be biased here, I'm an an English/History double major who wound up as a Manufacturing/Process Engineer in the real world and spend much of my time having to anticipate and fix the screwups of engineers whose egos far exceed their talents. Nowadays it's tougher to do that though with the shift to credentialism instead of ability.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:24 | 4024869 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

There are literally tons of IT people, engineers, computer nerds, etc out there right now. My son worked in IT where HR keeps saying,"the job market is tight." He says what is written above about the borderline quality of the grads.

Yes, it's also tight because most employers lowball recent grads who are a little desperate (and happy to find something, anything) and b/c of globalization where immigrants (mainly Indians and Chinese who are simply glad to be out of thier sh*tholes back home) are pouring in. And many are extremely bright and competitive. 

The married grads with a kid (or two) who took on a zero down or 3.5% down $380,000+ mortgage are doomed to work forever for low wages b/c they are locked in with lead weights around their ankles.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:19 | 4024872 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Engineering grad - top tier school late 70's.  A major problem is the varied demand for engineering.  Worked for an A&E firm for a yer before college and a couple summers but the economy was so bad there were no prospects for a Civil Engineer in the late 70's.  Got an IE degree and saw the major employers in the area close down and move operation overseas.  First job out of college was in a mfg plant that shut down in 6 months - but you saw the future there.....    All the highly trained machinists and tool and die guys were OLD - WWII and Korea trined.  Nobody coming up to replace them because companies wouldn't invest the time - they'd rather move the whole place overseas.   Ended up working to improve back office operations on Wall Street but the culture there was toxic.   FIne Arts degreed wife makes more $$$ in Marketing.   Not as many jobs for engineers as there used to be and employers love to keep the price down with H1B imports.

Have to agree on the lack of communicatin skills in engioneers though.  Even at my top school you had plenty who got C's in English - 500's on Verbal SAT's with 800 math.  Not the best social skills eithe.  Frat rat doper/alchoholics or asocial intorverts (knew some who NEVER had been on a date in their lives).  Sometimes the stereotypes aren't extreme enough.

Basic problem is that jobs are still going overseas to the cheapest labor.  Oldest won a CIBA- Geigy chem award in HS - one to best Chem student in everly HS in the county.  They were trying to convince kids to be Chem majors.  At the awards reception one parent - a research chemist (Indian BTW)   - went ballistic over the lack of career path that paid well for such 'in-demand' people.  He said you'd have to be nuts to be a research chemist when mediocre 'managers' with Bullshit 'business' degrees were paid far more- and he was right.  Left the CIBA guy slack jawed.

That applies all over.  'Management' - often incompent and problematic' makes the $$$ and makes the rules.   Brother was a line mechanic supervisor at a Fortune 500 manufacturing plant in NC.  Profitable and prodiuctive the plant management ran the place into the ground - it was sold lock stock and barrel to another company who is making a boatload of money making generic products there - though they cut the wages and benefots of the workers.

Last job i had was with a Wall Street firm employing Bob Benmosche (now AIG CEO) as EVP of Operations.  Incompetent and arrogant he fired anyone he thought might be smarter than he was (one way to keep your job).  Tasked with building a new broker system, he FAILED to gewt anything done (because he fired all thsoe with the ability to actually get the job done).  He tried to fake it with smoke and mirrors but got caught and demoted - told to 'demo' his new 'system'.   Somehow he got out before being fired and ended up at Met Life making a mess there.

Incompetent Business Majors are a far bigger threat to the US economy than inept nd unskilled engineers.

 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:04 | 4024947 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

You're quite right skeptic, I was only opining on why recent grads may be struggling to find work when there are still a fair number of engineering jobs advertised. It also depends on where you live I imagine, some areas are doing better than others.  Where I live manufacturing is doing very well but I know that most areas aren't.  I deal more with mechanical engineers now (and electrical ones at a previous job) and that's all I know, I've never dealt with the chemical variety.

On the good side, alot of foreign engineers are even worse than what we are producing. I can usually tell pretty quickly when a customer outsourced their prints and models to India or Eastern Europe because its a flipping nightmare trying to figure out what the hell they want.

I wholeheartedly agree that most business grads and MBA's are probably the most insufferably obnoxious and incompetent bunch of fuckheads on the planet.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 16:55 | 4026261 pitz
pitz's picture

Its not a quality problem with the domestic engineering candidates.  Rather, it is simply a desire to keep labour costs down by hiring foreigners.  Most of the advertisements for engineering jobs out there are either legally required (for H-1B, Green Cards, etc.), or they're cross-postings by recruiting firms trying to scam a commission or finders fee. 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 08:47 | 4025327 GCT
GCT's picture

+1000 cynical.

Are you sure it was not a government sponsored company.  They run programs the same way.  Hire a degreed person with a public administation type degrees (quite frankly a degree in basketweaving can get you hired) and put them in charge.  They never ran anything, worked in the private sector, and fire those that know the system and make things happen.  They have title now and that makes them important.  They know it all!  Usually a woman or minorty.  Go check out most offices in local and federal government and you will find I am correct. 

They squander the taxpayer's money because the rules do not apply to them and when questioned by a staff members, they get upset or fire you.  So most competent people keep their mouths shut and work behind the scenes and do it without talking to the boss.  Independent thought is a no no in most offices and organizations.

What's really hiarious is watching an Executive Director and an Architect get together for a building project.  I had to leave the room one time to go out and laugh as neither understood the lingo or the other.  Hace you ever got an English major and a spec writing engineer together ?  The chaos ensues quickly as they banter back in forth with the written word.   

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:49 | 4024924 pitz
pitz's picture

Probably because your HR drones aren't hiring the top grads, but are seeking out the low bidders.  I'm not surprised.  Don't blame engineering grads for this, blame the people who aren't aiming higher when they hire. 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:05 | 4025042 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

When dealing with very large multi billion dollar global customers it is reasonable for me to think that they will hire people who aren't drooling imbeciles. It IS the fault of the grads themselves if they can't string two coherent sentences together, there is no reason that they can't take a freaking remedial English class or three so they come off as slightly less stupid.  Though it does provide us with a bit of amusement at work it is embarrasing for them when some business colossus hires guys whose ability to express something verbally is limited to the way that they text.

As to what their HR departments look for I can't say but previous experience leads me to agree that most very large companies probably lowball recent grads. On the other hand, what else would someone with no experience expect?

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 20:19 | 4026736 pitz
pitz's picture

People who graduated at the tops of their classes, with better skills than their peers, expect more.  "Experience" is often over-rated, especially in a field like engineering.  Firms that aren't prepared to offer superior salaries to superior talent, end up usually hiring mediocre talent.  Leaving top talent mostly unemployed.  Many firms have basically institutionalized this way of thinking. 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 07:35 | 4025278 Obese-Redneck
Obese-Redneck's picture

I call bullshit.  I never met a young engineer who couldn't put me to shame smarts-wise.  Now engineers personalities may be one thing, hard to talk to, as fun as a stick in the mud, but stupid? No.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 15:28 | 4026083 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Call bullshit all you want.  The fact that you've never met a young engineer that couldn't put you to shame smarts-wise speaks to your personal level of intelligence and nothing else. How many engineers do you deal with, and across how many different businesses? What sort of manufacturing do you work in?

When I have to launch emergency measures or go to the plant manager to tell him production cannot move forward because the prints they sent us have no dimensions, and/or their models won't open because they fucked up the format somehow so our guy can't flatten it out and get it to the laser cutters, or they called for a combination of materials and specifiations that don't friggin work in the real world and we get a response along the lines of "OMG WTF DUDE"?- yeah I'm dealing with an idiot.  Ability to use language is an inherent charcteristic of high intelligence, truly bright people don't send responses that read like a monkey pounding a keyboard. An example of a young engineer idiot that got himself fired:

An engineer for a transportation industry customer sends a print and model calling for a thin 6061 alloy aluminum piece about 3' x 12" ish with a 90 degree bend on each side about 3 or 4 inches from the outside edge of the longer dimension. No problem, very basic U shaped stuff- but 6061 alloy sheet metal does NOT like to be bent much- at 90 degrees it very often cracks during bending.  We email the engineer (23-24 ish recent grad I met in a meeting)and tell him he should probably use 5052, our response (and this is close to verbatim) is "Dude, I'm a (sic)enginer (sic). Do what I sent u (sic) and is (sic) all good." He was in his office and at his desk that day, so it wasn't a phone texting error. Usually we get an order for a couple of prototypes first but they were under the gun so they ordered like 50 pieces to get started on their newest build. I take the email exchange to our plant manager, he laughs and says to go ahead and do it.

Well, we make it and of course a huge number have cracks in the bends.  We contact their head engineer (older guy with a clue) before shipment and send him pictures and a copy of the email exchange. He blows a fuse- their production lines will now stop and of course they are going to have to pay us for unusable product. Young super "enginer" finds himself on the unemployment line at the end of the day, hilarity ensues in our business. "Dude, I'm a enginer" becomes a joke line for weeks.

Call it what you like- but it damn sure ain't intelligence as I understand it. First he doesn't know what he's trying to do and what he wants to do it with, then he insists on plowing ahead when we try to tell him that the real world won't align with his nice computer model and sends an illiterate response, and for the hat trick he shuts his own assembly line down.

Is that all engineers? Hell no, of course not. But that's only one example of many and every time it's one of the 30 and under set that winds up with his ass in the fire and perhaps not coincidentally it seems to be the ones that write like they are in 9th grade. We're the fabricators- we'll get paid for doing it wrong no matter what when some wonderboy whose brain can't match his ego insists on doing it his way. Then of we bend the customer over to have to ram something through ASAP that actually will work for them when their lines go down due to their own dumbassery.

I stand by my earlier statement that there are alot of young engineering grads out there who don't know much beyond how to draw something on a computer because I see it all the time, and the ones with literacy issues tend to be the worst cuplrits.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 20:21 | 4026741 pitz
pitz's picture

As I told you earlier, it sounds like the HR personnel at your particular firm weren't hiring very high up the food chain.  Top engineers do not come cheap.  If you are paying less for an engineer than a tradesperson, that's a good sign that you're not hiring very high up.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 21:41 | 4026880 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Read more closely- they aren't OUR engineers- they are the customers engineers and I go through this repeatedly. 

You don't seem to realize that car, bus and train, and heavy equipment companies do NOT make their own parts.  They send prints and models to metal fab shops, they haven't made thier own stuff in decades.  When Ford builds a car, they didn't make those parts- they buy them and assemble it.  When CAT builds heavy construction equipment, they buy the parts and assemble it.

I can't control what companies like that hire, but I laugh frequently at what they do hire.

Sun, 10/06/2013 - 01:09 | 4027134 pitz
pitz's picture

Well obviously the customers' engineers aren't being hired out of the top of the applicant pool.  Which is a systemic problem for the entire economy.   While many top quality engineers are sitting on the couch, not even treated to the courtesy of a response to their job applications. 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:22 | 4024581 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Yeah, but there was a shitload of gorgeous women in those English classes ready to party, get high and have sex at the drop of a hat.

In my engineering classes there were only fugly chicks that resembled Janet Napolitano or Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:57 | 4024819 Thunderwall
Thunderwall's picture

and yet somebody always steps up to the plate...

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 07:13 | 4025257 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Even the fat ,and fugly ones need loving.

Turn the lights off.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:26 | 4024589 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Give a dance, gotta pay the band!

DaddyO

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:12 | 4024560 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Or social skills, etc. etc. But it's the BOOMERS fault.

 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:37 | 4024612 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

i would say it's the parents of the baby boomers fault (only a commie like brokaw would call these geezers that elected FDR thrice the greatest generation) for allowing the hippies to get away with what they did.

It was pretty great of our founding fathers to kick the king of England right square in the nuts.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:09 | 4024697 Umh
Umh's picture

It's Stockholm Syndrome. They kept electing FDR even as he made things worse.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:35 | 4024763 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Not really, the Soviet Education system left a huge group of highly trained and educated people inside the rotten hulk of the Soviet Empire when it collapsed. Many went to the west and gained good jobs and started prosperous busniesses. But many stayed, and under the elite, was a huge middle class of well educated Russians. The complete collapse of the Soviet Empire should have spelled the end of Russia. But it has not, because the communist education system left a great human capital to fall back on. If you know anything about education under communism, you will know it was not liberal. It was all about strict discipline and a strong moral code, plus Soviet social collectivism  and responsibility.

The communists couldn't run an economy, but they could run schools. Now, if you want to attack American public education, then I am onboard with you all the way. Just don't call American schools communist, they are anything but. Communists would never allow the low standards, the filthy morals and the watering down of strict standards. There were no easy classes at any Soviet University. Some of the best educated people in the world came out of those strict and high standard universities.

American schools are unique to the sloppy and multi cultural feel good lesbian womens agenda. Soviet schools never, ever had such things. History isa the judge, and I stand by what I say about communist education. America's school are a product of social Liberalism and ethnic diversity at all costs.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:34 | 4024901 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I got a little distracted when I read, "feel good lesbian."   Glad you put that near the end so I could absorb the rest of your interesting post.  Funny how your observations are completely unknown to the average Westerner.  Propaganda.  Works.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 13:27 | 4025811 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

I have a bad attitude towards gay women. I actually find a lot of gay men to be great guys, they have such good attitudes. But my poke at lesbians is personel. I have had some very bad experiences with them in the past. About half a dozen I could relate. But to keep it short, my wilderness small town is very popular with the big city lesbian women who visit and sometimes move here to live. In my personal experience I have come across too many who openly hate men and even more so hate straight couples who find a man and woman relationship both fun and rewarding. I have just seen too many filled with hate, and very willing to tell you about it. My dislike of them is something they could correct by showing a little human compassion for those different than themselves. It is like they have found the real way god intended the world to be, and men have no place in it. Sad, that hate has filled their hearts. Of course we have our Christians who hate gays like poison too.

Yes, as a youth, I made the Soviet Union my primary field of study, outside of my technical career. Including visits to the USSR both before the end of communism and twice after. Once during the boom, and once after the default. One thing about Russia and the USSR, education is strict and held in the highest regard. No American student would ever want to sit in a Soviet Classroom.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 03:27 | 4025173 Confused
Confused's picture

I know a woman in her mid 40's. Went to one of these schools in one of the eastern bloc countries. She works as an interpreter. She speaks English, French, Russian, German and Spanish. Of course not all of them were taught in school (only English, French and German). And that was in high school. 

 

Of course she has no love for the conditions she grew up under. But I can't help at marvel at that. 6 years of high school spanish and I only know how to ask where the bathroom is. 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 13:49 | 4025857 layman_please
layman_please's picture

generally true but one cannot forget that universities in soviet union were also a tool to spread propaganda. classes like history of communist party were compulsory for everybody. while sciences, engineering etc were subjects of utility for the soviet machine (no bullshitting there), creative education (arts, architecture, literature etc) only served the propaganda apparatus.

to think of it, this is still the case, just on a more subliminal level, as the art world is completely on the budget of elitist clique. finance of art education(grants etc) is ran through foundations and later professional success is possible only thanks to general recognitions which is commenced by the critics who are on the pay of these same foundations. which makes it quite clear how all great art from the past is also nothing more than elitist expression which contemporary population admires in their complete ignorance(tourism etc).

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 08:33 | 4025321 Landrew
Landrew's picture

I am so happy you were not allowed to have children!

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:01 | 4024342 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Playing music on the Titanic is not a long term gig.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:37 | 4024768 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

lifeboats for 1% of the crew

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:50 | 4025095 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Those are infested with rats.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:34 | 4024456 vulcanraven
vulcanraven's picture

But they sure can shred that Guitar Hero, lemme tell ya

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 04:07 | 4025196 WOAR
Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:40 | 4024274 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Me hashmarked britches are older than 30......you milleneal bitchez better get busy and do something about this mess.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:44 | 4024285 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Don't give them any ideas. The way out of this mess is to kill everyone in the US over the age of 35.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:55 | 4024314 JohnG
JohnG's picture

 

 

Good luck with that.

Never fuck with the old man; that old man will kill you.

 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:41 | 4024479 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

Nah nah lettem go head n try that MMA shit out on me. I'm dyin to try out my new shotty shells filled w dimes. Who says fiat is worthless?

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:05 | 4025040 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Wax Slugs.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:54 | 4025399 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Massive default, thats what the Millenials will do.  The Boomers are getting a lot of shit, and rightly so, but the generation before them had it even better (not the ones sent to WWII, the ones born during WWII) in terms of jobs, stock market, housing price appreciation...

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:28 | 4025442 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

housing price appreciation...

Yeah, that "creative" financing that was allowed to flourish worked like a charm.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:04 | 4024345 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

NSA Profile 17A

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:37 | 4024466 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Similar to 1930s Germany (and Japan, America, UK, etc. etc. etc.). What actually happened? Same thing as ever - they (those of draft age) were sent to die en masse for jack and shit. Who fights the wars? It's history'sfavorite way to rapidly employ large numbers of people AND improve economic opportunity (years/decades hence).

Speaking of WWII, why was WWI put on hiatus for just over 20 years? The respective countries' propulations needed time to restock their supply of cannon fodder. Look at the age cohort that made up the largest part of WWI's military deaths... just over 20 years between wars ... surely a coincidence... surely ... hmmm ....

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:47 | 4024495 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

heaven

 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:18 | 4024575 Peachfuzz
Peachfuzz's picture

How about a decentralized agricultural (permaculture more specifically) revolution that takes advantage of people's desire for informed consumerism and flies in the face of a failing agricultural system whose life blood is petroleum. A country where the food system is no longer subsidized by .gov, topsoil is no longer the #1 export, and every dollar spent on food is multiplied by a factor of 5 in the community because yes they really did grow it, harvest it, sell it, and buy inputs from their neighbors.

    Nah, too radical, better just start shootin' (/sarc)

To any of you under 30 reading this, take H_H's challenge. Get involved in the creation of your own destiny, walk through the doors that are open to you; and while you're at it take the time to learn from some other's mistakes. Get a spiritual program, cause there's more to this life than stuff ("sooner or later the stuff you own, ends up owning you.") Don't believe me, look at the money changers. They conjure it out of thin air, can buy anything they want, and yet they are so miserable in their own skin that they must inflict pain and suffering on the rest of us to make themselves feel mightier than they are.

/end rant

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:05 | 4025411 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Lol.

Why does everyone like to say that rich people are miserable. Wishful thinking at it's finest. The rich people I know are pretty damn happy as they should be. Life is good.

They own businesses and don't own any lobbyists and are regular folks with families and don't vacation in the Hamptons.

They make stuff or provide a service that people want to buy and are good enough at it that they'll come back and buy it again. Some are struggling to maintain market share as people are spending less but they didn't become successful by being wasteful or foolish with capital so they'll probably make it through.

A lot of you know them already because you work for them.

Real life ain't like cartoon TV shows and there is no Karma in this lifetime.

 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:55 | 4024669 ChaosEquilibrium
ChaosEquilibrium's picture

Logan's Run!!!  It WILL BE TELEVISED....in HD and TWITTERED....only after the IPO!

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:02 | 4024832 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Ya know Evil, if they collectively weren't so demotivated I might worry about that but this may also be this county's greatest hope.  The Hippes made a big big deal of "turn on, tune in, drop out" but then they became the most materialistic, money grubbing bunch of yuppie vultures that ever cursed a nation.

The new bunch are REALLY good at truly not giving a shit, without an army of eager beavers out there dumb enough to actually toil away all day for the benefit of the very wealthy and the very poor the system is in greater danger than from anything else. TPTB and the Grand Ponzi have no defense whatsoever against complete apathy and ennui. It actually gives me some hope for their collective future.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:42 | 4024280 Tegrat
Tegrat's picture

I think the majority voted for the change  - they were just a tad unwise to ask what exaclty what is meant by the change.  They are sleeping in the beds they made...

 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:06 | 4024359 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Not at all...they love niggas.  I love most black people, but Niggas Are Always Com Plaining (NAACP).

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:17 | 4024395 oddball
oddball's picture

Are you tell me that before Obama the bed was fine?  lol

 

You think voting matters?

 

hahahhahahhahahhahahhahahhahahha

 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 19:46 | 4024288 CH1
CH1's picture

We the lost generation bitchez

Lots of room in the Bitcoin economy.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:10 | 4024375 mt paul
mt paul's picture

speak for your own generation

my generation is getting paid

we charged it on your credit card..

 

good luck with the payments ..

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:02 | 4024339 Nothing but the...
Nothing but the truth.'s picture

The inconvenient truths that the government is desperately trying to hide from it's citizens - They have been lying to the nation for decades.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:41 | 4024779 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Yep.  When clinton passed NAFTA in 1994, I knew bad shit was coming for the US.  Since then how many more of these crap 'trade' agreements have been made?  Yet many still think its the only 'real' path yet at no time in history has such lopsided trade 'policy' proved to work ... just like fiat currency, its a 'fiat' trade policy hiding inflation and works great ..... for the moneychangers.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:05 | 4024350 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

lazy generation bitchez, fixed it for ya.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:29 | 4024435 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

No...the generation lost itself.  It is the Fourth Turning.

At 16 I learned to weld.  I 17 I learned to paint cars and do body work.  At 20 I worked for the Frisco Railroad as a carman.  At 21 I became a stockbroker for Stifel Nickolaus and over a 20 year span worked for Merrill, Paine Webber, etc.  I took college courses in finance at night.  I paid for it by buying, fixing up, and selling sports cars, (MGs, Austin Healeys, Triumphs, Sunbeams, etc.).  I took vocational courses in plumbing and electricity.  AT 50 I started a commercial finance company (factoring).  At 55 I bought a small cable lock manufacturing company.  At 57 I took a course in panel beating and learned how to shape body panels on the English Wheel.  At 60, I learned to design websites, mastered a little Photoshop and started a website hosting company.  Today, at 64, I run 4 small businesses (cable locks mfg, web hosting / design, factoring, and a commercial finance training company) , I still build and restore cars on the side (just built a beautiful ERA Cobra replica and sent it to a buyer in France). I did all of the above with only money I generated myself.  No student loans.  No cash from parents.  No handouts.   Nothing

Entrepreneurs, and especially entrepreneurs in my age bracket, have zero sympathy for anyone that decides to be an English major, drops out, and then sits around whining about not having a job.  What in the fuck are you doing with your life...waiting on Hope and Change?   

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:34 | 4024454 Arius
Arius's picture

is this just one person? wow ... congrats!

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:27 | 4024741 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

And he doesn't look a day over 90.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 03:25 | 4025172 object_orient
object_orient's picture

And not a single mention of friends or family, only personal accomplishments. To each his own.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 04:12 | 4025199 WOAR
WOAR's picture

Success is not for the weak, and since it isn't cheap backstabbing, it doesn't lend itself to family time.

All the successful people in history have died without children, or at least without raising the children they created.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 09:32 | 4025379 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

All of them, really?  There is a line to be drawn between self-suffiency and sterility. 

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 10:40 | 4025460 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

"At 20 I worked for the Frisco Railroad as a carman.  At 21 I became a stockbroker for Stifel Nickolaus"

You could do this back in 1960.  Good luck with that transition in 2013.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 20:54 | 4024509 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

If you can't connect the dots between when and where you were born and what happened since, it's better to keep your mouth shut. Price of oil per barrel in dollars the year you were born?

"At 21 I became a stockbroker for Stifel Nickolaus and over a 20 year span worked for Merrill, Paine Webber, etc."

LOL. Fall-in-a-hole and get rich, indeed.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:38 | 4024622 pitz
pitz's picture

Good for you.  Access to capital is a real issue for young people trying to start a business.  They'll gladly lend you a quarter million for a nominally useless English degree, but, heaven forbid, if someone wants a loan to build/buy a machine shop, the terms are considerably more onerous. 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:25 | 4024740 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

They'll lend you on a useles English degree because it's non-dischargeable in bankruptcy and guaranteed by the government. 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 21:42 | 4024638 Short Change
Short Change's picture

Ha you make it sound like there is opportunity at every corner just waiting to be had for those that will work for it.... Maybe it WAS like that back in the roaring twenties, and my grandfather has a similar success story to yours.  However, many of the jobs you describe having had are now done by machines or exist in failing industries.  Furthermore college courses, on a per credit hour basis at your state school, are currently more than a welder/plumber salary could support without loans.

I'm all for kicking the slackers to the curb and what not, but it's a different world than you describe and plenty of hard working people are struggling to get by in it so... STFU.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:26 | 4024886 mkkby
mkkby's picture

It is the young people who have broken the social contract.  The "work hard" part is unacceptable to them.

Anybody with a fucking pulse can learn a trade by apprenticing.  You actually get paid to learn. 

If you god damned losers weren't so lazy and entitled, you'd have a good life.  But instead you live off your parents and whine about how nobody's interested in your useless degree.  Enjoy your minimum wage lifestyle and make sure my fries are hot.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:31 | 4024895 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Paid for an engineering degree working full and part time over 7 years.  A bunch of us rehabbed houses and apartments to get 'free' housing while in college.  Some landlords let things get so bad even students won't live there.  After graduation (best salary in degree despite a mediocre GPA - workign 40 hours a week didn't help) I still worked weekends with a friend parting out and restoring 60's Musclecars (still have 3 convertibles).   Renovated the house i grew up in - took $$$ out of that and bought current place at bottom of housing market.  Have 20.000 hours in and still not done but DO have a million dollar house in a good neighborhood and school system a few stops out of NYC.   Hate to pay someone else for work I can do myself better.  

...and my kids are at the top of their classes - college is paid for (we waited a decade to have kids but were saving frim the day we married).  

Worked my tail off - often in a lousy economy and did OK.  We did the 'right' things - lived within our means and SAVED for things instead of buying on credit.  Didn't take vacations for years.  Waited to have kids (a BOG factor in financial 'success')  

BUT despite that i will have to say a good amount of it comes down to pure LUCK - ONE good employer who treats you well, no major illnesses, some stability in your life (a rarity these days).  Have seen others who worked as hard or harder who are barely getting by because of ONE wrench thrown in the gears - a job loss for a while, a sick kid, bad divorcewhatever......

 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:17 | 4024713 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You are exceptional.  Good for you.  But what people who have your "I did extraordinary things and you can to" view of life fail to recognize is that most people are around average.   A little above, a little below, but around average.  If everyone had your skill set, then you would be average.  But instead of being thankful that you are exceptional, you are a fucking douche about it and tell everyone else to be exceptional like you.  Average people deserve a fair shake too.   They don't expect a Bentley.  Well maybe they want one, but that's not the root of their problem.  They mostly just want to live a decent life and not be fucked daily by the .01%.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:33 | 4024760 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

Nonsense!  There is absolutely nothing exceptional about me or anything I do or have done.  I have always had good math skills and I was educated at a time when they taught good communications skills.  That's about it.  There is nothing that I do or have done that anyone else could not do....especially today with the web.  My only real weakness, at this point, is I'm getting old and I have a lot more I would like to do or try to do but time is not my friend.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"  

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 22:51 | 4024777 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

As I said.

The guys who work for you in your bodyshop and who put in an honest day's work but who don't have the drive or desire to own their own shop are not worthless eaters.  They help make you a success.  You need those guys to do their work and not be stabbing you in the back trying to steal your ideas and start a competing business across the street.  The guy who mows your lawn and who wants to go home at night and drink a beer and hang out is not cannon fodder and should be able to live out his life in his small home and die happy if not rich.  America was great because those guys once had a fair shake, and were not treated like slaves.  You are a success because most guys are like the body shop worker and the lawn mower.  Celebrate it and your success and stop being a douche.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:06 | 4024838 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

Where in the hell do you come up with this stuff Rand?  First of all, I do not own a body shop.  Metal fabrication and vintage autos are a hobby.  Keeps me sane.  I never said anything about workers / employees being "worthless eaters".  My point, which somehow seems to have escaped you, is there is always opportunity if you have skill / skills.  As a factor, my primary profession, I finance small business entrepreneurs in various parts of the country and have since 1990....including landscape companies (your "guy that mows the lawn").  The point of the original post was to point out that opportunities always exist, even in today's Bernanke economy, if you are willing to take the chance and start a business rather than whining because you can't find a job. If you're mowing grass and get laid off...fuck it, start your own small lawn care company.  Sitting home, collecting unemployment, and talking to your friends on your Obama phone is a major, major waste of life.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max" 

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:20 | 4024873 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What I get from you -- and as further enforced by the above post -- is that you see two kinds of people.  1) you or those who want to be you, and 2) losers who are "sitting home, collecting unemployment," etc.  You seem entirely focused on the idea that starting a business is the only worthy goal in life.  As a small business owner myself I get your passion, but I don't happen to agree that people who have no desire for the endless headaches and hard work it takes are lesser beings.  In fact I'm personally glad that most people don't have what I have, and I'm suggesting to you that you open your eyes to the possibility that the guy who just wants to put in a day's work and not start their own business is a gift to those of us who do, and that we benefit from that guy living a comfortable life and not being squeezed perpetually.

Fri, 10/04/2013 - 23:47 | 4024917 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

Look. I couldn't care less about the guy that's happy as a clam putting in his 40 and then going home to give the wife a little pickle tickle and slam down a few cold ones. If he's happy and feels secure...more power to him. And what does my original post have to do with that, anyway?

To me, going to college, acquiring the debt where there is little chance for relief, and then "betting the house" on your ability to find a job based on a marginal education (English in this case) is foolish. In today's economy, multiple skills and income streams is becoming a necessity. I personally do it because I like it and I like the challenge of new business opportunities. But even if I didn't enjoy it, I'd do it. For security. I think the under 30s are in for a very rude awakening in this economy and most are completely unprepared. They need more skills / trades. Entrepreneurial skills. And too few seem to have them or more importantly, the desire to develop them.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:00 | 4024944 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The basic point I am making is that the guy that's happy as a clam putting in his 40 is threatened because we have become a society of rich and poor, where the guy who puts in his 40 is treated as a worthless eater slave.  To make the point, even as you say the words "I couldn't care less about the guy that's happy as a clam," you don't see the problem that you couldn't care less about the guy.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:36 | 4025001 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

But Rand, didn't you say just a post ago..

"In fact I'm personally glad that most people don't have what I have, and I'm suggesting to you that you open your eyes to the possibility that the guy who just wants to put in a day's work and not start their own business is a gift to those of us who do, and that we benefit from that guy living a comfortable life and not being squeezed perpetually"

I am the exact opposite of you, my friend.  I would much rather see the young create their own businesses, embrace entrepreneurism, thrive and have what I do and more.  I do not look at them as competition at all but as customers, as they succeed.  Success breeds success.  You seem to be missing that very, very basic concept.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 00:43 | 4025011 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Professor Fate, you seek utopia.   I am with you in wishing it were so, but I am burdened by reality.   The reality I see is that most people don't have the desire or means to operate a business, but that doesn't make them lesser.  In your paradigm that everyone can and should achieve greatness if they just want it bad enough, it does.  To me, it just makes them people.  And all people who work an honest day deserve a fair shake.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:23 | 4025060 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Rand you really don't get it. The only way to have "skills" is to develop them over a long period of time, or with the right teacher/training a shorter period of time. The only way to actually develop skills over time is to have the DRIVE necessary to learn, and be observant. Nothing is rocket science, not even rocket science. The fact is most people are too fucking lazy and want something for nothing and then bitch about not having enough. Everyone wants the beautiful mansion house without saving for it. Everyone wants a great car while... not saving for it. Everyone wants a great retirement plan, that once again they don't save for and just let others take care of for them rather than ask questions about how their pension is being run etc. Everyone wants well behaved kids that are super smart and great at sports without ever sitting down with their kids and teaching them or playing sports with them. Face it Rand, everyone wants everything but they think it should just be a given and easy to obtain like low hanging fruit.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:26 | 4025065 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No, I get it.  It's not a binary universe.  There are plenty of marginally intelligent people who just want to work for a living and be left alone.  And society needs those people and they don't need to eat cat food.

Sat, 10/05/2013 - 01:44 | 4025086 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Rand by your statements alone you don't get it. 

There are plenty of marginally intelligent people

 

Let me correct that statement for you ... There are plenty of marginally engaged/driven people.

There is a huge difference.

 

who just want to work for a living and be left alone.

Or rather ... who just don't want to ever understand risk, take risks, learn from mistakes, and have the government take care of them so they can pretend they are safe and left alone when in fact they are being robbed blind by the state.

 

The world isn't some fucking bubble that you can live in without the risk of people beating the crap out of you and stealing your shit rand. WTF kind of Utopia world do you live in. Everyone wants to take your shit and bury you 6 feet under. If you were a fish in the fucking sea no one would shed a god damn tear over catching you and eating your ass. Grow up.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!