The standard wisdom on gold is that it does well in times of economic bad news such as in the 1970s, a period of stagflation and recessions, when the yellow metal rose from $35/oz to peak at $850/oz in 1980. But this time, Don Coxe, a portfolio adviser to BMO Asset Management, believes, things are different. In this interview with The Gold Report, Coxe explains why gold will rise when the economy improves.
The Gold Report: Are the days of easy money drawing to a close?
Don Coxe: I don't think so. Even if the Federal Reserve begins to taper quantitative easing, the front of the curve is going to stay at zero interest rates. A trillion dollars is going through the Fed's balance sheet, which works its way through the system. As long as the Fed keeps interest rates at zero, it's easy money.
TGR: Will overt monetary inflation return any time soon?
DC: It will return when we have sustained economic growth. The Eurozone has been the big drag. It is definitely stronger than it was a year ago. The Eurozone has lots of problems, but it is experiencing economic growth despite the European Central Bank reducing its balance sheet in the last 12 months by almost exactly the same percentage amount that the Fed increased its balance sheet. This says that it has lots of firepower if it needs it. In addition, the Eurozone government deficits are lower than ours in terms of percentage of GDP. The Eurozone actually, despite all its highly publicized problems, has improved its financial shape relative to ours.
Also, in the last 12 months, Japan, the world's third-biggest economy, has gone from negative growth to strongly positive growth. It is doing that by printing yen at a prodigious rate. The days of easy money are going strong.
TGR: If inflation returns, will it first appear in goods or services?
DC: In goods. If I had to pick the one point at which we'll start to see the change, it's when the razor-thin inventory-to-sales ratio comes under strain. Corporations are controlled by people who learned in business school over the last 20 years that the first thing to manage is inventories. This way they don't have to worry about prices going up and don't use corporate cash to finance an inventory that may decline in value. Therefore, when things change, it will show up in the pressure that comes because companies have so little inventory on hand. Corporations will decide that they've got to invest in more inventory because they've got more demand.
TGR: Do you think that will shake loose the vast amount of capital that's being retained by the multinationals?
DC: It will shake loose some of it, but the big thing is it will come because prices are starting to rise. The two reinforce each other.
TGR: What do increases in monetary inflation and capital growth mean for gold?
DC: Gold rose along with the Fed balance sheet for years. The two have decoupled in the last two years. I believe the reason is people have just thrown in the towel that there will ever be inflation. If you're "Waiting for Godot," at some point you can reach the conclusion that Godot may never come.
TGR: Should investors bet on gold's return to previous highs or something in that direction?
DC: I don't think we're going to see anything like the double-digit inflation that we saw back in the 1970s. The big difference was the tremendous power of unions then. They all had cost of living adjustments in their contracts; the Consumer Price Index (CPI) would rise in a quarter, then automatically wage rates would increase, and the two fed off each other. The weakened power of unions today has meant that we don't have an automatic reinforcement right at the core of the system.
TGR: Let's talk about monopolies and competition and why does the focus of big investors shift from growth to income?
DC: I'm not convinced that we've got a lot of monopolies out there. OPEC is no longer able to control oil prices, for example, because its share is no longer large enough to give it freedom on pricing. I believe that oil fracking will gradually start spreading from the US to other parts of the world. We don't have that monopoly, which was the big one back in the 1970s that made it possible for OPEC to quadruple the price of oil. A quadrupling of the price of oil here is impossible because the global economy would collapse with a doubling of oil prices.
TGR: Are companies borrowing money at cheap rates to increase dividends and buy back stock? And, if so, how does that affect the system?
DC: Yes, companies are basically removing from the system what I believe is the core of capitalism, that corporate cash is used to grow a business. Investors pay a high price-earnings ratio for companies because they believe the companies can reinvest that cash and sustain their growth. When we see that corporate cash is being used to buy back stock and pay dividends, the decision-making force in the system becomes stockholders redeploying cash. In the past it was the corporations themselves through their retained earnings and effective reinvestment that drove the system.
If money that people got in dividends was invested in shares of companies that were issuing new stock in order to grow their business, then the whole system would not be losing the money. When you have a system where corporate treasurers do not assume strong future growth and they assume that these zero interest rates are going to continue for a long time, the incentive to retain earnings and plan on capital expenditures (capex) goes away.
Capex is putting money out at great cost, where companies get no immediate returns from it, whether it's building a new building or opening up a whole area of the country. When you take that out of the system, the result is that you turn the system on its head. It used to be that the companies would, when they had the cash, decide how much was needed for capex; after that they figured out how much they would payout in dividends. The decision makers within the companies are no longer focused on creating overall economic growth through capex and expanding production.
TGR: Are we in a triple-dip or a quadruple-dip recession here?
DC: No, I think we're coming out of it, but we've come out of it at a gigantic cost. The Fed had to quadruple its balance sheet, which raises all sorts of problems. We have no precedent in history of this kind of expansion of the Fed's balance sheet.
The ratio of paper wealth to GDP is so high at a time when it's going to be difficult for corporations to expand because, as I said, they will need a large amount of capex to meet rising demand at a time when there's all that money out there. I would regard that as a virtual guarantee that at some point we're going to see inflation.
This time inflation won't come from rising wages. It will come from rising demand and the inability of corporations to swiftly respond to that demand. The technology industry can expand in a hurry because it keeps coming out with new products, but for most of the rest of the economy, it takes a while to build a plant and get the machinery ready and test it out before there actually is any production. That period of time, if you've got strong demand because there's so much paper money, is the moment at which you will see inflation coming.
TGR: How will that affect gold?
DC: It will deal with the problem of faith in gold. When gold tracked the growth in the monetary base, which it did so well, there was a general conviction based on Milton Friedman's theories that expanding the monetary base too fast eventually translates into inflation. Inflation is harder to stop than it is to just watch start growing.
We will see that interest rates will have to rise because of another group that has not been heard from in a long time: bond vigilantes. They are threatened with extinction. It will be a combination of rising interest rates and rising prices that will get people to say, "Ah ha! Milton Friedman was right after all—if you print the money, eventually you're going to have the inflation."
TGR: When you talk about bond vigilantes, are you talking about junk bonds or what's known as private equity?
DC: The bond vigilantes work primarily on government bonds because they are the ones they can trade most effectively. Junk bonds are a small part of the market. With inflation the bond vigilantes sell off their 30- and 10-year bonds and move down to the 2-year note. At that point the cost of capital for expansion rises through the system because corporations can use short-term cash for some of their work, but they tend to use long-term borrowing from banks and the bond market for major projects. The cost of building those projects increases because of the steep yield curve.
TGR: Do you consider yourself to be a bear or a bull on gold?
DC: I am neutral in the short term. I'm not a bear. I'm a bull in the long term because I believe it's not a question of if but when all this money printing eventually comes to haunt us. Gold as an asset class is so tiny in relation to the vast expansion of money around the world. With the printing that's gone on, China has had to expand its renminbi supplies to prevent the currency from soaring relative to the dollar.
TGR: You are appearing at the upcoming Casey Fall Summit. Are you going to talk about gold there and will it be more or less what you just said?
DC: Yes. I am going to point out that the big story for gold is up until now gold has been only a bad news story. The reason why it's in trouble right now is there always seems to be bad news in terms of inflation. People say if inflation hasn't come now with the quadrupling of the Fed's balance sheet, it's never going to come, and the Fed is going to have to keep on pouring out more money because the economy isn't growing.
When the economy starts to grow all of a sudden because, as I said earlier, of the inventory cycle, we are going to start to see inflation. Gold will become a good news story in the sense it will be responding to strong economic news at a time of massive liquidity, which translates into inflation. The fact that we've had all that money printing, which has only prevented us from going down into a pit, at such time as this actually leads to good economic growth. That is the point at which we're going to see people wanting to have gold. It's because we didn't get the direct pass over of the money printing into rising prices that gave people a loss of faith saying, "Well, if it hasn't come with quadrupling the Fed's balance sheet, it's never going to come."
TGR: Given that, is it a good idea for investors to buy gold stocks while they're available at basement prices?
DC: I believe that everybody should have gold insurance now. The question varies from investor to investor. What we have is an extremely high-risk central bank policy in the world, and it's high risk based on monetarism. I believe monetarism will prove to be right because all past experiments with paper money eventually led to inflation and monetary collapse. At some point the fear of that will come. You need gold for insurance, but this time the payoff will come when the economy improves; in the past when everything was falling all around you, commodity prices were soaring out of sight. We had three recessions in the 1970s and gold went from $35 an ounce to $850. But this time, gold is going to appreciate when we start getting 3% GDP growth.
TGR: Thank you for your insights.
Don Coxe has 40 years of institutional investment experience in Canada and the US. As a strategist and investor, he has been engaged at the senior level in global capital markets through every recession and boom since the onset of stagflation in 1972. He has worked on the buy side and the sell side in many capacities and has managed both bond and equity portfolios and served as CEO, CIO, and research director. From his office in Chicago, Coxe heads up the Global Commodity Strategy investment management team, a collaboration of Coxe Advisors and BMO Global Asset Management. He is advisor to the Coxe Commodity Strategy Fund and the Coxe Global Agribusiness Income Fund in Canada, and to the Virtus Global Commodities Stock Fund in the US. Coxe has consistently been named as a top portfolio strategist by Brendan Wood International; in 2011, he was awarded a lifetime achievement award and was ranked number one in the 2007, 2008, and 2009 surveys.
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When you hear that they finally arrested financial terrorists Blankfein and Dimon gold will soar.
Pray tell me what conditions exist that would make the economy improve?
Coming out of the recession ( depression )?
Seriously?
Baltic dry....... job amounts / quality created.......10yr note pressure......channel stuffing....... record food stamp enrollment.........etc etc etc.
You have it exactly wrong. In fact, the wheels are coming off as we speak.
......... and Europe is not fixed.
Did they recap their banks yet? Did they expel the countries that are dead weight?
Until they dissolve the EU in it's current configuration, they are going to continue to be a problem.
Exactly.
I respect Don Coxe and all his experience, but he is simply begging the question here. His argument is that, deus ex machina, we're going to get a big enough autonomous increase in aggregate demand to get the inflationary ball rolling.
As xtop23 points out, this isn't happening and isn't going to happen.
I leave the gold market conspiracies to those who understand them, but TPTB are going to fight any rise in gold prices toothe and nail. Volcker's main regret, as voiced to his biographers, is that he lost control of the price of gold in the 79-80 episode. Modern central bankers have taken this episode to heart and have not and will not repeat Volcker's mistake and will use any means necessary.
Thanks for the Volker point. I did not know that.
Volker was blowing smoke out his ass.
He lost control of real money and stopped it with 20% interest rates and killed the economy in the process. He actually killed an entire economy to stop the rise of the price of gold.....what an asshole!
They could raise interest rates back then......not so much anymore.
Agreed. And how is demand supposed to rise if wages continue to stagnate or fall?
"Pray tell me what conditions exist that would make the economy improve?"
Agreed. Hope is NOT a strategy and the problems are structural, not cyclical. And the problems are not even being addressed because that would not be in the best interests of the Corporatocracy/Government complex.
Gold IS the end game. Eventually it will be set free.
http://jimroger.blogspot.ca/
Probably so, but the end is not near...
You fucking idiots need to drop this "Gold" Bullshit already, I swear you guys are worse than a fucking broken record and 10x worse than the fucking Herpes or Syphilis. Shut the fuck up already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Even gold bugs are getting tired of these snake oil salesmen
I think most goldbugs are sick of hearing lots of things. Especially people making predictions on prices in rigged markets.
In some ways, gold is probably the least of our worries going forward. Our rights, freedoms and privacy are crumbling fast.
Gold is not moving higher entirely because the Fed and BIS are selling naked paper shorts, usually in large quantities at 1-3AM ET in what are clearly not-for-profit trades, to keep it from surging and spoiling the fiat ponzi party. That's another minor detail that Coxe will not wish to repeat in polite company.
Disclaimer - I was bearish on gold from 1700 up and continued to be bearish until 3 weeks ago. I am not a gold bug, I'm as far from a goldbug as you can possibly be. Gold will never replace paper as currency of choiice. Gold is to heavy to move around when your rich. Cant eat, fuck or get high off gold. Yes, gold for me is a relic.
With that said. I am now bullish on gold stocks. There is no other sector that is as undervalued as the gold stock. Although id stay away from Barrick! There are many gold stocks trading at a relative bargain to anything out there. In addition, its getting harder and harder to find gold at high enough concentrations to run many mining operations below 1200/ounce. So when gold starts to dip below that, companies will shutdown.
FYI, I work as a consult and provide training for mining companies all over the world.
In addition, the call options in gold company stocks are EXTREMELY weird...just check IAG call to put ratios...like 1000 to 1, lol, never seen that before
They are going to go bankrupt. The stocks are pieces of shit, and liars. If you are truly in the business, you know it.
Cant eat, fuck or get high off gold. Yes, gold for me is a relic.
Of course you can do all these things with fiat. I took a shit this morning that is smarter than you.
To be fair, you would be a lot more likely to use fiat to clean up that mess than gold. It has at least that much intrinsic value.
There isn't a single legitimate argument against gold that doesn't apply to fiat. The 'it's too heavy' argument is unique to gold, but it's crap: a small bag will buy a home. And in the 21st century, once gold becomes our money again, it will be electronic: on audited deposit at a financial institution, and you'll write checks and use debit cards with gold (and silver) denominated in milligrams.
I don't think it would be too difficult of a task to create a golden pussy or dildo for fucking. And, some fine dining incorporates gold leaf into their foods...
No
Please return to fucking your sister and leave this to the professionals.
I was hoping that would catch on - don't forget the part about lighting stray dogs on fire, and fellating goats. If these fucks can't be held accountable, contempt for them can at least be demonstrated and verbalized.
He could leave the fuckng to us too.
There's always the option of not visiting a clearly pro-gold website and then specifically opening the article about gold... just trying to think outside the box.
"You fucking idiots need to drop this "Gold" Bullshit already....."
I may be wrong, but I don't think that you convinced anyone with your argument....
Had he used the word anarchists instead of idiots he would have been a lot more believable.
"I'm not convinced that we've got a lot of monopolies out there"
It's called the global banking cartel you cluess dipshit.
He can't talk about the Money Cartel or they'll ruin him. He knows what time it is.
Oh that's a load of crap. The global banking cartel wouldn't know Casey if they fell over him. Regardless of what he spouts. I think we are his only audience.
I hear you fonz. Coxe is okay, but most of the stuff put out by the Casey bunch really sucks on gold and silver. Their analysis is terrible.
Here is Chris Powell of GATA speaking on the CNBC in Hong Kong explaining exactly what is going on in the gold market (in 5 short minutes). This guy knows more about gold than just about anyone on the planet.
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000204388
That was a great interview BOP. Thanks for posting it. Regarding the last 15 seconds of it. I don't know who that central bank will be. I feel like they made a giant pact together.
Great video BOP - one argument of Powell's I disagree with is that the collusion ends when the gold runs out... as has been shown, you don't need gold to trade gold (& effect markets)... also, becuase of the possibility of government confiscation, once you run out "you jus go cop some mo'"
What am I missing there?
Thanks again
EVERTONE SHOULD WATCH THAT INTERVIEW
Which country's gold do you imagine that the U.S. government is likely to "confiscate"? It will not be confiscating privately held gold, for reasons that I have stated many times on ZH.
Supposedly there is a lot of unaccounted for (probably on purpose for a just in case shit happens scenario) gold out there that would cause a major price movement if brought onto the legit market. Ferdinand Marcos comes to mind.
"one argument of Powell's I disagree with is that the collusion ends when the gold runs out.."
America's ability to fix the price of gold at $35 ran out in 1971 because of France buying gold for dollars. If Nixon had not suspended convertability and let the price of gold rise, the US would have run out of gold in another year or 2.
Can they run a completely phony gold market with no actual gold, just paper? At the rate they are going we may find out soon.
Agreed with Fonz- that was chilling. I'd like to see a story here about that. Was he just talking out his ass or is that all for real?
All true, ND:
http://gata.org/node/12907
Pfffffff..... that's going to take a while to digest. Thanks for the link. The implications of this, if you believe them, are that things have been not just maniputated but almost outright controlled a lot lot longer than anyone (even on ZH) has suspected. This makes HFT shops look like no big deal in the grand scheme of things.
I need a minute here.
Haha. Yeah, my head almost exploded in 1998-99 when Chris laid this out to me in Vancouver, BC at the Cambridge House Conference when they formed GATA. They knew JPM was the FED's main agent in the market rigging gold but it led them to much a bigger picture on things as they pieced it all together with the various banks and agencies at work in the financial markets (UST, ESF, IMF, BIS, etc...).
It is kind of mindblowing when you think about it.
What bullshit. There will not be sustained economic growth. Casey is just another shittalker looking to pack a conference room
At 75 bucks a seat....comes with a free brochure about "the next great opportunity"!
I'm sure Simon black is there selling cheeseburgers in paradise
All that sustained economic growth in the midst of falling incomes (both real AND nominal). I'm glad we won't have to worry about his gold thesis based on real, sustained growth leading to inflation for a long time to come.
Just goes to show you these a-holes who pimp gold are as clueless as the ones pimping dollars. Both don't see there is a structural decline
what a truly gigantic fucking mess this whole thing is. A whole world rotating on the belief in a piece of paper in exchange for labor, and a small group of people control the ability to produce and hoard as much of that paper as they wish....and everyone else is too scared or stupid to haul them out on the street and remove their heads from their bodies.
Anyway, so facebook broke out again...
I can't think of any time in my life where believing the lies would be more important to people than it is now.
2008 was clearly the beginning of the next depression. Yet it was halted. How?
Well let's take a look at the causes first: obviously, a credit bubble formed and was burst. This bubble was clearly big enough to start the dominoes falling. Why? Nobody in the private sector trusted eachother, most notably the various banks throughout the world after Bear and Lehman went bust. Intrabank lending (along with all other lending) went quickly to near-zero. Intrabank lending is like the oiling system in your engine. When oil pressure drops to zero the engine seizes up quickly thereafter.
What did we learn? When trust dries up, so does lending. TRUST WAS THE REAL CASUALTY IN 2008, as it is when any major credit bubble bursts. (The root of the word credit is trust, going back to ancient Greek, if I recall correctly)
The equity markets sank. Corporate bond markets did as well. Almost everything went down. All signs were pointing to depression. Remember S&P 667? I do. So do you.
What market didn't sink? TREASURIES. Why? There was TRUST that .gov would not allow a default on their bonds, nor any potential loss of capital (something gold can not lay claim to). It was the Swiss Army Knife of safe havens. The nuclear-hardened core of the asset market. Money fled to them.
From that core of trust was born the idea that there was but ONE true asset with zero default risk AND zero loss of capital risk- Treasuries. The Fed was not oblivious to this (they were the reason everyone had that trust in USTs in the first place) and used that as the fulcrum upon which they levered everything else back up. No other "extrodinary measure" policy put out between Sept 2008 and March 2009 had anywhere near the effect that QE1 did. QE1 told the world that the Fed would do whatever it took to save core asset classes by levering the TRUST in UST's, which they backed with their printing press.
Nobody gave a crap about inflation back then. They were crapping their pants about default risk and deflation. The Fed's intervention was welcomed.
3 more itterations of QE later and it should tell you something about who investors really trust that the Fed is still at it (more so than ever). And that we haven't sparked hyperinflation yet. Nor are we likely to anytime soon, given the consistent fall in wages for the last 5 years.
Nothing has changed in any major way. Trust is still broken in everything that doesn't guarantee a return of capital. Nobody gives a crap about asset price bubbles. The world doesn't run on the stock market or other speculative investments. The world runs on TRUST. And there is only one source of that left on the planet at the current time.
The alternative to belief in this system is too horrible for most to contemplate, so they continue to believe even if they don't want to. And they will continue to do so until such time as there is something better to believe in or a policy disaster shakes their faith beyond repair. Even a "techincal default" on TSYs in a few weeks due to the debt ceiling is not likely to be enough to shake their faith, should that come to pass.
Trust, driven by necessity is a hard thing to shake. Gold will eventually win, but I see no end in sight for the trust that most investors have in the Fed and USTs. If you're a believer in gold you're basically placing a long-term bet that the Fed (US government) will lose this fight. You'll eventually be right, but the ride along the way will be VERY long and VERY rough. The Fed is ENCOURAGING certain investments (Treasuries, primarily, but equities go along for the ride) while DISCOURAGING others (including gold). Just realize who you're betting for/against before you place your bet.
While I am broadly sympathetic to the wisdom of not underestimating how long TPTB can keep the lid on the boiling pot, I view the 2008 through present history through a rather different lens.
In my view, while the Fed and various governments have been superficially successful in their efforts to both keep interest rates low, and manipulate the paper gold market lower, the intensity of the boil (to continue the metaphor) has increased dramatically.
It is becoming increasingly obvious to anyone paying the slightest attention that the U.S. is in a prolonged depression, and in spite of the propaganda spewed by the MSM, the economy is not recovering in any meaningful sense; most markets are rigged; the whole political process is corrupted beyond saving in its current form; civil liberties are being curtailed at breakneck speed, etc.
Japan, while structurally different in some ways than the U.S., is accelerating briskly on its suicidal path. Europe has deep problems which are becoming worse.
An increasing number of big players are insisting on bullion to replace the paper promises of which they are becoming skeptical. Huge amounts of gold are being bought by China and Russia, et al. The available gold at the Comex and JPM has become dangerously low. Instances of cash settlements rather than bullion in exchange for paper claims are becoming increasingly frequent.
The Fed appears to be losing control, as evidenced by its inability to even sightly reduce its absurdly large $85b monthly credit creation. The markets are becoming increasingly unstable, and, though it's a relative trickle at the moment, an increasing number of big, status quo Wall Street players are publicly expressing anxiety about the direction in which the world is headed.
The U.S. was essentially thwarted in its effort to create another war distraction by a combination of growing public distrust and disgust with such actions, coupled by an important, increasing level of confidence amongst countries around the world which are also sick and tired of America's disastrous foreign policy.
Putting these factors together, I simply do not see how TPTB can keep the lid on much longer. I believe that their hands have already been scalded by the escaping steam, and that whatever semblance of control that they still have will, contrary to NoDebt's view, be lost fairly soon.
Excellent rebuttal. Tip of the hat. I'd love to lose this debate.
Basically we're on opposite sides of a bet over nothing more than when most people will sicken and disgorge themselves of the belief in the USD.
You say sooner, I say later. One of us will be wrong. One of us will be right.
It's unknowable looking at the data. Human beings don't behave purely on data (especially in large groups).
I think this is more analagous to Poker than it is to anything else. You can play the cards (data) or you can play the man (emotions, beliefs, how people think). I believe the whole thing is predicated on self-enforced trust right now. That self-delusion is stronger than most are willing to acknowlege. Without a clear view of what comes next, most will choose to believe in the current reality, no matter how insane, no matter how long it persists, until they see the next regime to jump to.
But I admit, I could be completely wrong (remembering that early or late on a call is the exact same thing as being wrong).
My father always said "Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst."
BOP puts it similarly when he hopes Tinky is right (short-term end, "best") but provides solid-backed opinion why the opposite may be true (prolonged-decline, worst).
3 years ago I bought 2 and 3-year calls on gold thinking there was no way that the absurdity I was reading EVERY DAY on ZH and elsewhere could be sustained for very long.
It can.
It will.
I would not even buy 3-year calls on the yellow metal today. I stack modestly, and go on with my life.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
Excellent debate! These few specks of gold dust in the comments section of ZH are what keeps me coming back.
Spot on both of you. Truthfully no one can predict the when. My own person belief is that TRUST in US institutions is failing at a rapidly accelerating rate. Syria was major.
Keep watching the US 10-year yield. The focal point for trust.
Great recap, thank you
Gold <----
Cash <----
What's better in an American collapse?
Both.
Cash for during, gold for after.
12 gauge........
Ok Mr Biden.....
7.62
7.62.......AR15s for big boys.
Coxe explains why gold will rise when the economy improves.
*Sigh* Get ready for $80 gold.
Sorry I couldn't just give a link to this because it was an email to me, so I had to paste it in here. Anyway, this is Dent's view on gold and Martin Armstrong's follows after it. There is a lot of sense here to me anyway. Goldbugs who are overweighted in gold might really get crunched. It is best to think DIVERSIFY in my opinion. One will be better off surviving the storm if they have gold, cash, stocks and real estate. One or a combination of them will protect some portion of your wealth. No one knows what is really going to happen since we've never been here before. In my opinion, DIVERSIFICATION is the only hope of preserving some of your wealth.
==========
Despite the yellow metal’s unceremonious and painful meltdown since October 2012, gold bugs continue to forecast a price of $5,000 and a collapse of the U.S. dollar to zero.
How could they be so stubborn AND wrong?
Because they’re basing their views on ideology and the last economic war, the fight against inflation in the 1970s.
They’re completely ignoring all the facts, especially the one that the economic war we’re fighting now is about deflation and debt deleveraging (as it was in the 1930s).
So let’s set the record straight. Here are the seven reasons gold will continue to sink like a mafia boss with cement shoes in the river… and why the dollar will continue its resurgence like a rising hot air balloon.
Get this…
Gold is an inflationary hedge. Gold bugs have assumed that the Fed’s unprecedented money printing, Quantitative Easing (QE) and stimulus programs would lead to inflation and, ultimately, hyperinflation.
Mark my words: That’s not going to happen!
Gold collapsed in the second quarter of 2013 when our QE3 ramp up and Japan’s off-the-charts QE saw inflation rates fall from around 2% to as low as 1%.
Leveraged hedge funds have been dumping gold ever since then to meet margin calls.
The first principle to understand here is that the U.S. created more debt than any other country or region in the world during the great boom from 1983 to 2007. Total debt, private and government, grew at 2.54 times GDP for 25 years. Private debt grew even faster at 2.7 times GDP.
Debt is how we create or print money. The Fed’s money-printing programs are just a sideshow we see during emergencies like World War II and the recent great recession.
$3 trillion in quantitative easing is a drop in the ocean when compared to the $42 trillion in private debt and the $17 trillion (and growing) of government debt in the U.S.
Get this…
When we deleverage or write off debt, money is destroyed. That makes the U.S. dollar scarce and, therefore, more valuable.
The truth is that we debased the U.S. dollar in the boom with unprecedented debt creation. Compared to our trading partners, the dollar declined 58% from 1985 into early 2008.
It’s been rising ever since, and it surged 27% in the financial crisis of late 2008 while gold was down 33% and silver was down 50%. Holy crap!
Yes, the gold bugs were wrong. Gold didn’t protect them or you from a deflationary crisis. The U.S. dollar did the protecting.
Get this…
The U.S. dollar is the safe haven play in a deflationary period like this one, not gold or Swiss francs or euros or Canadian dollars.
Get this…
Currencies trade relative to each other, not over an absolute value like stock market earnings or real estate rent and replacement costs. That’s why the dollar could never go to zero… not unless there was a global collapse of the currency system.
Right now we’re the best house in a bad global neighborhood.
But there are other reasons the U.S. dollar will continue to rise in the coming years.
For one, our trade deficit has been declining since the great recession of 2008. We have consistently imported more than we export since the early 1970s. This floods the world with U.S. dollars as we borrow to buy more than we make. That creates liquidity in dollars for world trade.
Get this…
A falling trade deficit and potential trade surpluses from the U.S. energy revolution – thanks fracking – will only cause the U.S. dollar to rise, not fall.
That’s what leading nations do as they build their trade empires, like Great Britain did in the 1800s and early 1900s and the U.S. has done since World War II.
The costs of building such empires are offset by reserve currency status that allows a rising currency to afford such expenditures. It’s a win-win for global trade and markets, until it goes too far and the empire costs too much to sustain. James Dale Davidson first made this argument in The Great Reckoning (1991).
But when we stop building our empire, as we clearly have after so many failed wars, our currency rises as imports slow, exports rise and dollars stop flooding the world. And as I said before, fewer dollars in circulation make for a more valuable currency.
Get this…
We are likely to see currency wars as other countries – like Japan and China – continue to devalue their currencies to stimulate exports in slowing economies, as John Mauldin argues in his forthcoming book, Code Red.
And finally, as Dennis Gartman argues for an increasing U.S. dollar in difficult times: “Who’s your daddy?”
Get this…
The U.S. has 20 larger aircraft carriers versus 12 combined for the rest of the world. To put it more simply, we have 70 acres of flattop space versus just 25 acres for the rest of the world. That means we’re still the Great Britain of this era, even though we are backing off of our global policeman role.
That makes the U.S. dollar the ultimate safe haven.
So don’t buy gold or Swiss francs or past inflationary hedges.
Be in cash. Buy the U.S. dollar.
And if you’re more aggressive, short stocks as they decline in inflationary or deflationary crises.
==========
AND MARTIN ARMSTRONG SAYS: Gold is not money. It is a commodity. It is no longer an inflationary hedge. All it is insurance against a monetary collapse. On top of that we don't have to worry about inflation and hyper-inflation is impossible (hyper-inflation only happens with revolutionary governments that don't have large bond markets). We have to worry about deflation as that is where we are headed. The USD will become stronger and will be the international currency and safe haven as things continue to unravel. The USD will be the last to collapse. Gold will never back money again because there isn't enough of it to back up the global liquidity and it would cause a tremendous fixation and cause deflationary pressures. The governments of earth are hooked on central banking and the creation of money so that they are able to SPEND without limit. They would never have a restraint like gold backing put on them. It's fiat and fiat in the form of electronic money which will be our future.
Armstrong calls for gold to peak in 2015. You must be reading Neil Armstrong.
Honestly the way he dealt with the whole performance enhancing drugs thing, I don't know how anyone takes him seriously anymore.
Great trumpet player, though.
I had one of them when I was a young lad. I would grab one arm and my brother would grab the other and we would pull him in opposite directions so we'd be able to stand in different rooms in the house while each of us held his hands. Good times for us...not so much for him though.
Before he went to the moon. After that, he hasn't done didly.
Wow fonz, so thats how he endured landing on the moon. Was buzz also on roids?
I think that Martin Armstrong expects weakness in gold until confidence is lost starting in Q4, 2015. Then it makes its real bull market move. In other words, 2015 would not be a peak but a starting point for a new bull run.
The ego on that man, though. He constantly lambasts those whom he claims are conspiracy theorists not seeing the irony in the fact that he believes that a vast conspiracy was involved in his imprisonment. Oh yeah, building 7 was leveled during 9-11 in part because proof was contained inside of it that would have exonerated him. The guy is ridiculous. Incredible knowledge of history though. 50% brilliant, 50% egomaniac with a schizoid tendency.
Huge amount of inconsistencies in many of his theories. Supposedly, 'chaos theory' is the grounds for his perfectly linear predections regarding histoy when the precise pretext of 'chaos theory' is that systems are too complex for linear projections. He throws around some random events with some calculation using PI, takes for granted that the two events are even anaologous and prints up some circa DOS graph that supposedly diagramed the correlation 20 years ago and all of the ocultists that follow him oooh and awww.
Perfect - thanks for posting. Of the various people i've seen post his "thinking" here", you are absoutely the first, and only, person who has correctly stated his "view" going into Q4 2015 and beyond. I also share 95+% of your other obversations - I'm not really sure about his "incredible knowledge of history".
I do visit his blog every couple of weeks, but normally his inconsistancies and ego give me a headache so I can't stay too long.
Again, thanks for posting your thoughts.
Take it for what is worth but this guy thinks gold will increase if global inflation picks up and sees just that going into 2014.
http://www.arabnews.com/news/446294
A senior foreign exchange analyst attending the 4th Saudi Money Expo and Conference 2013 has predicted a rise in global gold prices in 2014.
Peter Rosenstreich, chief FX Analyst and associate director of Swissquote Bank SA, speaking to Arab News on the sidelines of the conference yesterday, said: “Currently the relationship between inflation and gold prices is no longer there. Therefore, without that connection people really don't have a reason to trade gold. If we start seeing global inflation rising at the end of 2013, we will tell investors to start buying gold again to offset inflation, which would make gold prices to rise.”
This post is mostly dogshit. I'd rip it apart point by point but I think most of you guys already know that stuff.
It appears good old Marty sold out on gold when he left prison and this Dent character is a complete fucking wingnut.
Marty talking about gold reminds me of watching Sean Egan on CNBC earlier this year speaking very nervously and quickly about the possible reasons for his firm to upgrade the U.S debt rating.
It scares me that you watch so much CNBC.
Anyone – and Armstrong is a prime example – who makes specific predictions about when unprecedented, major events will happen, should be viewed with great skepticism.
I remember Armstrong in an interview mentioning being on some gov't advisory thinger-jober. He was saying that the senate has a bill all worked out and ready to go that will deal with the dollar collapse, making a relative smooth transition into SDR's - a global currency...and the fiat farse will continue on.
"not enough gold"...nonsense.
The economy will not improve because governments will continue claiming an ever increasing amount of available resources.
Yes. And those precious resources would be wasted, or stolen by said governments. Like a parasite on it's host, sucking the life out of it. Sorry folks for the lack of humor.
deflator, yes. How does the embrace of a face-hugging Nosferatu "improve"? People think in the wrong categories and moreover insist on avoiding the "no hope" position.
There is no hope in a perpetual penal colony, which the U.S. is becoming. You either are in or you get out. The majority cannot get out but individuals can. This was one of Gurdjieff's central theses but it sails over the head of naive Americans.
I got a little iffy about this article ignoring why gold decoupled from base money. Stoped reading it all together at 3% gdp
new kito: No, I'm reading Martin Armstrong. Yes, it will peak but he is just talking about gold as a commodity, as a trader so to speak. He makes it very clear that his opinion is that the USD will not be backed by gold again. That is a phase that has passed. It will be electronic money and fiat based (like the IMF issuing SDRs or some such). And he makes it clear that stacking and hoarding gold may not be the solution and wealth preserver that gold bugs think it will be. They could get whacked as well by high taxes on it, confiscation, etc.
Poor Martin. Faced with endless prison time or shilling for da man, he sold out.
I used to take him seriously too.
I'm just waiting for Irwin Schiff to pay back taxes at this point.
He never sold out, dickweed!
not much for sarcasm, are you?
I read MA's blog regularly as he does give different reasons for his conclusions from most of the other blogs. For instance he's been harping on how hyperinflation is not in the cards. Rather, governments will instead impose capital controls and confiscate assets in the current deflationary enviroment.
What I don't follow is his strange theory of cycles and some of his graphs are puzzling. I don't see anything on his site that explains the methodology of his cycles. Perhaps that is proprietary, but if so, it's just another black box. Escapeclaws does not like black boxes.
RE: Casey...yeah, let's all move to Argentina! Their economy rocks the planet!
If US bonds are no longer as safe as they once were due to massive debt, and the equity market has peaked, the dollar is losing value..... where else to go but gold? In the last crisis people ran to cash and bonds. Will it be the same this time? I think theres a larger percent of people that will run elsewhere this time.
I think that you better run to everything as the only way to protect oneself in uncertain and unpredicatable times. Gold, cash, treasuries, stocks, real estate, one or more small businesses, a farm (or at least property that has a well and room for some crop land and greenhouses), barterable commodities, guns and ammo, hunting and fishing equipment, basic survival supplies, water filters and first aid kits, freeze dried and dehydrated food supplies, etc. This is the only way to be able to put your head down on your pillow at night with some level of security for the future. Got to cover all bases for any and all scenarios.
The answer to nearly everything is 70 / rate of growth.
If you accept the government's 2% inflation number, in 35 years your FRN's will be worth half their current value.
If you accept the MIT billion prices project inflation of around 5%, in 14 years your FRN's will be worth half their current value
If you accept shadowstat's inflation rate of around 9%, in 8 years your FRNs will be worth half their current value.
And this will compound:
2% 35 years to 1/2, 70 years to 1/2 of 1/2 or 1/4 aka 25%
5% 14 years to 1/2, 28 years to 1/4, 42 years to 1/8 and so on
9% 8 years to 1/2, 16 years to 1/4, 24 years to 1/8
The devaluation of fiat currencies over time is a mathematical **and** historical certainty which **always** approaches zero.
The drive of fiat currencies throughout history to zero value has a correlation that is indistinguishable from 100%.
Gold on the other hand will retain its value the entire time.
(property / real estate would retain its value too, except that government generally taxes real estate holdings)
HOW BANKERS THINK
Check out this little demonstration on how credit card minimum payments are calculated. Just scroll down to see the graph to see the ultimate in suckering the mathematically naive.
http://www.maplesoft.com/applications/view.aspx?SID=6647&view=html
I think the next crisis is a bond and currency crisis and there will be no keeping gold down.
How about The Fed and Government getting together and deciding to devaluate the USD? That could happen too.
Gold is for savings. Fiat is for transactions.
BOP - Been reading you here ... I have also left Turdville for more satisfying conversation elsewhere.
The one undeniable FACT is that the gold markets are being manipulated DOWN since NO ONE in their right mind would dump 1000s of contracts in illiquid periods. Therefore, buy it since the history of the London Gold Pool shows us that the manipulation cannot last forever.
And history is a much better teacher than Armstrong ever will pretend to be. And alfbell, your post is full of bad reasoning.
Well, well, there's a veteran poster from TFMR. Haven't seen too many of the old crew posting around here anymore. I was booted off his site by Stephanie/Mod Jane as you know. And I see you have to pay to get his material now. No thanks.
Peace and Aloha cpn...
>>>And alfbell, your post is full of bad reasoning.
Still, you must admit, building twenty more aircraft carriers would cement American Hegemony for the next century.
On Monday it (paper) will be a small pump, big dump. On Tuesday dump with the pump after the POMO.
That's my prediction and it has nothing to do with fundamentals or FIAT or whatsoever.
I heard the POMO team is on furlough. ;-)
I'd say they're essential employees
Bad reasoning? How is diversification and doing everything to cover your ass bad reasoning?
I believe he was referring to Dents comments on gold. Your idea of covering your bases as best as possible is not bad reasoning. Cash, gold, silver, supplies, ammo, farmland, RE are all good, imo. Bonds and stocks? Thats debatable in a crash or collapse.
Dent is wrong. The USD is on shaky ground, and it's not the safe place to be he claims it is. Check out these charts from CHS posted here at ZH yesterday. Sobering to say the least.
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct13/peak-Fed10-13.html
"But this time, Don Coxe, a portfolio adviser to BMO Asset Management, believes, things are different"
Ah yes, riiiiight...
When it concerns precious metals then it IS different, unlike equities or bonds right?
So it's "BTFD, catch that falling knife and prices will soon skyrocket" all over again? I'm just waiting for ZH to start posting those Eric King "incredible" interviews. "Joining me noooooowwww...!"
They certainly have maintained pretty good control over gold up to now....
@tinky.fonzanoon,no debt.
Feels like we've been outwitted,don't it?
For how much longer can real world ,it seems,be totally trumped by TPTB?
Reminder: As per Einstein; the observer IS part of the experiment.
As long as Joe six-pack is part of the equation,and he ain't about to go away,the manipulable
majority is a major factor.
We all say-to ourselves-sooner,or later,everyone,or at least most of them.will see thru the lies,deceptions,flim flam,flattery,false flags,falsehoods etc. however,UNTIL this actually happens...
the status quo prevails.
IE: Fiat currency,IOU, based on nothing more than the confidence of the deluded majority,prevails.
Until it doesn't.
And then,but only then,ultimate logic prevails.
When?
When do a sufficient number realise the state of things?
You tell me..
when it starts to hurt bad enough...it will wake them up.
They will wake up from believing in one crazy idea and start believing in a different crazy idea.
Gold will rise when the economy improves?
I didn't think ZH featured bearish articles on gold.
Gold is always a store of value and will never dissapoint its holder.
time123
http://invetrics.com
In August Don Coxe has issued his Buy call on Commodities in general. While we are all entertained by the DC Circus, China buys all Gold availible and now scooping the best Copper deposits:
McEwen Mining & TNR Gold: Las Bambas Copper Bidding From China Heats Up TNR.v, MUX, LCC.v, GDX, CU
It is getting more interesting by the day: Mining.com reports that now third Chinese company has entered the bidding "Art of War" for "Glencore Xstrata's (LON:GLEN) much-coveted Las Bambas copper mine." Situation is getting more and more industry attention now and Lumina Copper closed yesterday at 4 month's high of CAD5.72. We are waiting when the market and analysts will pick up this story and translate Los Azules Copper project value for McEwen Mining and TNR Gold.
Update: Lumina Copper has printed CAD6.55 today - we hope to hear some good news from the company soon. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/mcewen-mining-tnr-gold-las-bambas.html#
Eric Sprott: "China Bought 60% of Gold Production Last Month, I Am Buying Gold And Silver Stocks Now." MUX, TNR.v
"Price of Gold and Silver will be the main driving forces for all survived companies. Eric has very bold prediction for Gold going to $2400 by next year: "The most important thing in the precious metals business - the price of precious metals. They all go up if the price of Gold will go up. The question is which one will go up 200% or 500%. If the Gold will go up to $2400, I can bet that the Gold miners index goes up 200%. What we are trying to do: where is the one which will go up 1000%." This summer we had the capitulation in Gold and Silver stocks with the following turn around and now we are looking to the Eric Sprott and Rick Rule for guidance to run this new Bull. China will play the very important role in this big picture, according to Eric."
Gold is the thermometer of inflation; who controls the thermometer can control the perception of the level in the room. Even if they are no longer believed, if they have enough muscle they can keep their finger on it.
Another when question might be, when does someone decide there is more money to be made running it up? And who will decide that, if ever. Apparently the mines are powerless.
If the Bear and the Dragon are in cahoots with the Western cabal to keep the price low, the market would move to street level. Bad money would drive the good money to street transactions. Then of course transactions in PMs would be outlawed, etc ad nauseum.
It's roughly analogous to an official govt. rate of exchange vs. street level. When we got off the plane in Yangon in 2005 the first thing in the terminal were $$ exchange booths at 450 Khat to the dollar. The booths were directly outside the ramp and on both sides so all the debarking passengers passed them. If you had done your homework you knew that was bullshit and went to the Scott Market where you got 950-1000 to the dollar.
We have to allow it is conceivable that every major power might find it in their interests to keep the thermometer down; in which case gold holders are truly fucked until someone breaks rank.
Now, go back and read the article knowing that "money" is "a promise to complete a trade". You are assured of this by reflecting on trade. There are three steps to a trade: (1) Negotiation, (2) Promise to trade, (3) Delivery. In simple barter (2) and (3) happen simultaneously on-the-spot. Money allows (2) and (3) to happen over time and space.
Traders create money by having their trading promises "certified" by the manager of the Medium of Exchange. These certificates we know as money. They may be currency, coin, or simply accounting entries.
In a properly managed MOE, traders "know" INFLATION is zero everywhere. They know this from the relation:
INFLATION = DEFAULT - INTEREST
When a trader completes his trade, he returns the certificates he "borrowed" to the MOE manager, who extinguishes them. This assures that supply and demand for money is "always" in perfect balance ... it's the nature of a trade.
When a trader fails to deliver on his promise (and a rollover is such a failure), we have a DEFAULT. This leaves his certificates circulating diluting the value of other certificates. It's as if there was a counterfeiter in the marketplace. To resolve this, the MOE manager collects an amount of INTEREST equal to the DEFAULTs he experiences.
Now, with such a trading environment, these certificates hold their value forever, whether they circulate or are saved under a mattress. Further, there is "never" a shortage of money. As long as traders want to make trading promises, the MOE manager will certify them (actuarially imposing INTEREST according to DEFAULT propensity).
Knowing this, traders can do their trades using simple barter, where they are bartering these certificates. This greatly simplifies trade because it removes the "time value of money" from all calculations for responsible traders. They know INFLATION is zero and they pay no INTEREST.
So, given DEFAULTs, which are not deterministic, we collect INTEREST equal to these DEFAULTs to keep INFLATION at zero. Thus, we have an automatic negative feedback system. As competitive trading activity exceeds some trader's ability to keep their promises, DEFAULTs begin to occur. These are immediately countered by INTEREST collections which make later trader's business propositions more difficult to work and they back off. In common parlance, this means less "easy money". Further, responsible traders (those who don't default) are rewarded with zero INTEREST rates... perpetual easy money as long as they don't default. This tends to keep the whole marketplace operating on a responsible foundation at peak efficiency.
Again, knowing that this what "is really going on with money", read this article again and reflect on how riduculous it reads.
Todd Marshall
Plantersville, TX
Gold will head back to 1450, but not before it heads down first.
http://bullandbearmash.com/chart/spot-gold-weekly-falls-2-head-1000/
"Corporations are controlled by people who learned in business school over the last 20 years that the first thing to manage is inventories."
Good point.