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Did Paul Ryan Provide A Debt Ceiling Compromise Fig Leaf?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Late last night, Paul Ryan wrote a WSJ op-ed titled "Here's How We Can End This Stalemate" in which some suggest he gave the framework for what a possible fig leaf offering on the government shutdown and debt ceiling compromise could look like. While on the surface this may be grounds for optimism, the reality is that Ryan, whose entire proposal is based on the assumption that Obama is willing to negotiate which for now he has shown repeatedly he won't, merely fell back to his traditional "grand bargain" talking point made so clear during the Mitt Romney presidential campaign.

To wit: "If Mr. Obama decides to talk, he'll find that we actually agree on some things. For example, most of us agree that gradual, structural reforms are better than sudden, arbitrary cuts. For my Democratic colleagues, the discretionary spending levels in the Budget Control Act are a major concern. And the truth is, there's a better way to cut spending. We could provide relief from the discretionary spending levels in the Budget Control Act in exchange for structural reforms to entitlement programs."

Obviously, the issue that Ryan focuses on is not the short-term funding gap, but the longer term deficit, captured best by the CBO's most recent long-term forecast best captured by this image:

In light of his proposal, Ryan gave some suggestions on how to generate a more viable long-term budget for the US, including increasing revenue, reducing spending, changing Medicare premiums, reforming Medigap plans, asking Federal workers to contribute more to their own retirement, and all those other talking points which have been tried before. Unsuccessfully. Because why bother with long-term sustainability when the #1 enabler of an irresponsible government, Ben Bernanke, is about to be replaced with an even more dovish person?

Nonetheless, Ryan made it clear this was not another "Grand Bargain" proposal:

This isn't a grand bargain. For that, we need a complete rethinking of government's approach to helping the most vulnerable, and a complete rethinking of government's approach to health care. But right now, we need to find common ground. We need to open the federal government. We need to pay our bills today—and make sure we can pay our bills tomorrow. So let's negotiate an agreement to make modest reforms to entitlement programs and the tax code.

Nonetheless, what Ryan does suggest is yet another angle to a common bargaining position, one which would be certainly more palatable to Obama:

That's why I want a budget agreement—because if we don't make the tough decisions now, we'll face only tougher decisions later. We can work together. We can do some good. All it takes is leadership—and for the president to come to the table.

The reason it would be "palatable" is that in order to get both parties happy and reach a compromise, all that would happen is for various long-term assumptions would be changed, with zero actual, real current impact - something politicians are good at, because it does not generate an adverse impact during their tenure (afterwards, it becomes someone else's problem).

In other words, yet another episode of can kicking, one which resolves the near-term stress points and pushes all the hard decisions to the future. As for the key issue on the table, Obamacare, it will be quietly, pardon the pun, tabled. Which, just as Bank of America said, is the compromise option. As long as the ACA is a topic of discussion no agreement can be achieved.

Which is why we tend to agree: ultimately this will probably be the loophole used by Boehner and the republicans to fold once more. The only question is when, and how big of a catalyst will we need for everyone to get into a room and lock themselves until an agreement is reached. In this regard, we agree with Deutsche Bank that only a big enough market drop will force things to where both sides have no choice but to sit down. And as explained, the outcome of such a "sitdown" would be trumpeted as yet another semi-grand bargain, which however would achieve absolutely nothing.

Finally, another take on the Ryan overture is from New Hampshire senator John Sununu who largely covered all these points in a Bloomberg TV interview earlier.

 

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Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:46 | 4038005 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Starting with the Millenials...

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:49 | 4038031 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

Political theater

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:05 | 4038089 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

Texans to take action on October 19th at the Alamo.

http://americandictators.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-call-to-action-historic-...

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:11 | 4038116 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Who was the first liberal Democrat?

Answer - Christopher Columbus.

He left not knowing where he was going, got there not knowing where he was, left not knowing where he'd been and did it all on borrowed money.

Liberals are like seagulls: all they do is squawk, eat crap, and they are protected by the government.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:27 | 4038187 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Paul Ryan is a pro-amnesty RINO douchebag like John Sununu. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:32 | 4038204 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Paul Ryan is in a band called Steak Baby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewP01X5x9Nw

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:32 | 4038207 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

What do you call someone in US Congress who is honest, ethical, intellectual, law abiding, and truthful?

A tourist.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:55 | 4038270 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Ron Paul

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:19 | 4038422 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Dupes for Ron Paul

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:21 | 4038426 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

And much like Democrats, Columbus ended up killing a shitload of indians.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:12 | 4038122 Popo
Popo's picture

...just the Republicans trying to frame the next GOP presidential candidate as a "centrist".   

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:21 | 4038168 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"because in order to get both parties happy"

at this point, that's the last thing I want to do 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:37 | 4038218 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

If both parties are happy, it means they're tag-teaming us from behind.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:47 | 4038245 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Paul fucking Ryan is exactly the poster boy for why I've been saying for years now, that the tea party or liberty movement or whatever the fuck we call ourselves on any given day, NEEDS ITS OWN PARTY!!!

Being the rebels in the GOP is like calling yourself a humane executioner, it's bullshit and no one believes it!!!

And ya ya I've heard all the reasons GOP media hacks have listed for why it can't happen, what I want to know is when is someone in the movement gonna try and see WTF happens, I'll bet big money, "no one will have seen it coming", people are fucking pissed off and they want someone to stand the fuck up and stop the BS and articulate a new path!!

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:41 | 4038495 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

and guess what?

that's what - Obama wants that too

split the enemy and it will be Hillary 2016, Hillary 2020 and Chelsea 2024

 

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:28 | 4038642 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Actually, look back at the Dems in 1968. The pros used party machinery to push through mushy Johnson puppet Humphrey, then got nothing when they went around talking about 'Party Unity.'

However, these days American elections are a question of who counts the votes. And the Diebolds are mostly run by the right wing, both direct employees and stooges.

So if they want the Dem brand lackey, they'll run a Scary Clown for the GOP. Like one of the doinks in the House.

Sleep peacefully. It's all taken care of.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 16:52 | 4039159 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

You forgot the occasional Bush, for good measure...

DaddyO

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 20:55 | 4039885 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

You're going to get 8 years of Hillary and Chelsea no matter what.  The Republicans are finished forever.  It's a proven fact with all the push for amnesty by the Repukes.....including Rubio and Ryan.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:22 | 4038170 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

I'll give them all the fig leaves there are if they used their fuck sticks on themselves and not on us.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:34 | 4038670 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

To all Republicans in the House:

Stop trying to solve someone elses problem morons. If the Democrats do nothing, then do nothing in return.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:47 | 4038008 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Ryan is a stinky vagina face.

It's funny, when was the last time a stupid american paid one of these guys a visit at their residence? You throw a few interceptions on the other hand...

 

http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/fans-accost-matt-schaub-at-his-home/

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:49 | 4038030 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

You beat me to the punch. I was going to call Ryan a wimp and a fag.

I've seen bigger arms on a clock.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:52 | 4038039 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If you put Paul Ryan next to Joe Biden and told me I could only punch one of them I would punch Ryan as hard as I could. Then while everyone was standing there surprised I would kick Biden in the nuts.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:01 | 4038074 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Biden has nuts? I thought he lost them with the hair. I heard he has nut plugs for men.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:13 | 4038133 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Every hair plug on his head IS a nut plug.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:57 | 4038060 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

PAUL RYAN 1975

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:30 | 4038171 starfcker
starfcker's picture

simple but truly great wb7. i hates a traitor. on second thought, i would guess ryan lurks on these pages. fuck you ryan, you polesmoker

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:49 | 4038014 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Of course- because this is entirely about Barry's marketability post-office, nothing more...... 

Stupid chimp.....

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:26 | 4038183 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Another clueless right wing moron speaks up.   If you think Obama needs to do anything to boost his marketability you are even more stupid than most.  

Even cheney's monkey gets more money to show up at wingnut gatherings than you'll earn in your lifetime.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:50 | 4038531 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"Another clueless right wing moron speaks up. "

Wow, the emergence of another one of O's paid trolls.  I thought your earlier post in another thread was hilarious - you know, the one where you misspelled the word idiot.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 15:15 | 4038823 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

"Get a brain, morans!"

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 15:21 | 4038864 Geruda
Geruda's picture

I know many of the maroons that hang out here are truly ungifted remedial dumbfucks like you but please please tell me you honestly believe anyone would be stoopid enough to pay money to have someone throw peanuts into this monkey cage.

 

What do you figure it would be worth to someone and what would be the payback?  Gawd I hope you are truly that stuppid to believe such a thing - it would explain so much.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 20:01 | 4039741 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

Well, if nothing else, you are a very persistent troll.  To top it off, your spelling and grammar are indicative of the urban, Obama Lovin' youth produced from our public education system.

 

It's "stupid", stupid.

 

If what we say upsets you so badly, go hang out at the Daily Koos or HuffPo.  We are pretty much like-minded individuals here that discuss things amongst ourselves.  We do not always agree with each other, but for the most part we keep it civil - to a point.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:49 | 4038015 RacerX
RacerX's picture

so how do you negotiate when one side isn't willing to?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:52 | 4038032 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

 how do you negotiate when there is one side?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:54 | 4038041 RacerX
RacerX's picture

I think the main issue is Team D (and many from Team R) want to stick it in the Tea Party's grill.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:55 | 4038053 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

The real Tea Party no longer exists in Wash DC. It was coopted quite awhile ago.

Just a phony label and scapegoat now.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:00 | 4038302 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Truth.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:49 | 4038536 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"It was coopted quite awhile ago."

By those reptilian replicants?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:17 | 4038575 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

No, worse, career politicians.  Damn critters only know how to attain and keep power.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 20:03 | 4039752 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"career politicians"

 

Now that's a scary film title!  What, rated R for violence and rear nudity (as we take it the Hershey Highway once again)?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:30 | 4038657 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

It began a lobbyist's tool and nothing more.

These days, it's shorthand for yapping pinhead.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:58 | 4038056 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The tea party had their big chance 2 years ago when a few people actually gave a shit about the debt. They folded. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:10 | 4038109 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Tea baggers had their chance when the bimbo from Alaska was hotter than Britney Spears and Paris Hilton combined.  They should have all focused on voting for her daughter when she was dancin with the stars and they could finally have celebrated the fact they accomplished something to make their existence worthwhile.   Now they should all be put on trial for sedition.  Well, not that kind of trial but a trial program of using rendition on resident citizens.   

 

And Ryan...has that lying, backward baseball hat wearing fool made up any more impressive marathon times lately?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:12 | 4038130 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

At least he likes negra tail... cant say that for his fellow actor oBoZO.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:21 | 4038162 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Well pigface, now we're getting down to it.  The kernel of the substance of what all this right wing bullshit is about.  Got nothing to do with love of country.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:56 | 4038293 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Tyler, can we switch out Geruda for francis_sawyer?  Seriously. I'm disappointed you all stooped to censoring him...

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 16:57 | 4039187 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

FREE francis_sawyer

DaddyO

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 17:21 | 4039288 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I think Francis is free. It is very hard to dethrone the king

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:26 | 4038634 wtf1369
wtf1369's picture

Damn Geruda, you're rackin' up the junks but at least your posts are intelligible today.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:57 | 4038062 Dr. Engali
Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:08 | 4038095 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

C'mon you know these demons negoiate with the voices in their heads all the fucking time.

btw Love the photoshop work,  bro.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:11 | 4038117 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

C'mon you know these demons negoiate with the voices in their heads all the fucking time.

btw Love the photoshop work,  bro.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:16 | 4038146 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Well, dickhead.  If you had been paying attention and had enough brains to comprehend what's been going on, you've have learned the answer to your question watching republicans for the last 6 years.     Sadly it took Obama that long to realize it can't be done.   Better late than never.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:58 | 4038058 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

You mean how does a guy get out of being mugged. I don't like Obummer but for once he's showing some spine, not sure where it came from, and it's way late, but to me the shit the repubs are pulling is straight bullshit.

Obamacare was voted on 3 years ago, it passed. It is law now. If the republicans wanted to defeat it they should have gotten off their hands then. That conversation is over. The debt is a different subject, and should be dealt with on it's own.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:00 | 4038072 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

LOL do you really think any of this has to do with Obamacare?

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:09 | 4038104 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

LOL only that Boner said it was about Obamacare in the first place.

Now it's morphed into some supposed high minded discussion about the budget and government solvency because the dickheads in the house couldn't steamroller Barry on one issue they stupidly singled out. Now it's about social security and the budget? Please.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:10 | 4038121 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"only that Boner said it was about Obamacare in the first"

I see you take these guys at their word. Let's leave it at that.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:40 | 4038234 walküre
walküre's picture

Which confirms how effective their kabuki theatre is. The tea party was conceived out of virtually nothing when Obama ran against McCain. Not that McCain had anything to do with it but the timing is a factor. There was no tea party when Bush wasted billions on two wars and several health care overhauls (reforms) or tax breaks.

What is going on right now is anybody's guess unless you're in the inner sanctum of big money and big politics. My hunch is that big money wants to scale back spending in order to preserve the value and status of King Dollar. What else could their motivation be? How sexy is it to be the richest guy of the richest nation which ever existed when the currency is potentially worth less than toilet paper.

They cannot save the Dollar and the economy. There will be massive pain and hardship coming past October 17th when no deal on the debt ceiling has been reached. The big money doesn't want a deal to be reached because big money doesn't want to keep affording millions of Americans who are on government life support. The teet has dried up.

Swim or sink from here on.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:25 | 4038186 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

bullshit! so what if it is law?????????? laws are repealed ALL the time. Slavery was once law...because it is bad law it can't be repealed or defunded? Obammycare passed because of shenanigans without a single repub vote because the Dems ran both chambers then....Now the Repubs have the House which controls the purse.....The House has the power and authority under the Constiution to fund or NOT fund what they choose...

You remember that whole revolution thing "No Taxation without Representation"? The Founders gave that authority to the House to control revenue and taxes...Obama and Reid can yell and stomp their feet till doomsday, but the choice belongs to the House, which is why Obammy and Reid are only able to whine about the situation...

If the House caves and surrenders to Obama the authority to spend whatever he wants then we are even more fckd .......

Obama does NOT, the Senate does NOT have the authority to decide spending levels. They only get to approve or disapprove what the House passes. Period....

I for one am glad that the House has finally (if only temporarily) found its spine. They need to pass a balanced budget and go home. Obammy can take it or leave it

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:46 | 4038248 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Haha! Slavery wasn't repealed by holding up the budget of the United States it was repealed because they wrote a law repealing it and passed it.

You contradict yourself all over the place dude. If it's just the house that controls the purse then this current situation wouldn't even exists, they need the votes of the senate and the president. You might want to brush up on how laws and budget are passed..

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:30 | 4038458 11b40
11b40's picture

As you clearly understand, there is a lot more "passion" than actual knowledge in this comments section when it comes to Obummer and to politics in general.  Too many living in the Fox/Rush/Hannity echo chamber being fed a steady diet of red-meat BS.  

I have no love for either Dems or Reps, but I do understand reality.  As noted above, Obamacare is settled law.  It is also Obummer's baby.  Anyone who thinks he is going to roll over on this is delusional.  Anyone who thinks Ted Cruz, and his merry band of Senate Tea-bagger wannebe's accomplished anything positive for the Party, or their objectives, with his one-night-stand is wrong.  Just the opposite.  It was all sel-promotion.  As that famous liberal democrat, Grover Norquist said, Cruz "pushed the House Republicans out into traffic and wandered away".  

Now, their fearless leader, cry-baby Boner, is desparately looking for a way to save face.  He, and the rest of the House Reps are in a box of their own making, and they are literally BEGGING Obummer to give them a break.  They are getting the blame from the public, and making themselves look even more ridiculous, especially to the youth vote.  Even young evangelicals are abandoning the GOP, and once that happens to any degree, that party is done for.  So now, Obamacare isn't even the main dish, as they thrash around looking for something to "negotiate" on.  

As it stands now, Obummer has essentiually told them to go negotiate with someone who gives a shit about their plight.  Hint - that ain't him.  He will be the big winner, regardless.  They will cave, he will win...and that's what the game is all about.  The real party Republicans could see this coming, but the young, agressive, self-promoting hot shots only care about themselves and their personal fundraising.  Stupid is as stupid does.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 15:54 | 4039001 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

....."it was repealed because they wrote a law repealing it and passed it.....

So they repealed a "settled law" hmmmmm

I did say moron that the Senat can approve it (that means vote for it) or they vote it down... The WH can sign it or veto it....Typically, the Senate will pass its version and the House and Senate will negotiate and come to an agreement about what the budget should be...Harry Reid and dipshit Obama refuse to negotiate and demand funding without restriction....

The House has zero obligation to take up what the Senate sends them....Obammy can't do anything but whine and wait for the bill to land on his desk where he can sign it or veto it....until the bill gets there he can whine all he wants.....The House does NOT have to fund anything they do NOT want to fund.....

I agree that the House has gotten into this pickle of their own making, but that is only bcuz they rolled over in 2011 and 2012....My hope would be that the House would pass its budget and go home, but there is very very little chance of that

 

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 16:14 | 4039052 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

"Settled law"?? FUCK your settled law.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 16:23 | 4039083 11b40
11b40's picture

You tell him, Buckaroo!

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:01 | 4038076 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"for once he's showing some spine"

Automatic junk.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:05 | 4038085 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Actually, all it is is Boner and a group of teabags that are holding things up, there are enough votes in the house to pass a budget.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:07 | 4038099 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Dude. Are we talking about the fed tapering anymore? or understandably increasing QE because of all the damage these politicians inflicted? Before coming to their senses and punting everything down the road.

Get it? Stop looking at the hand that is waving in front of your face. Look for the other hand,

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:13 | 4038127 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Indeed. None of it means anything except the raising of the debt ceiling and installing the uber dove Yellen.

You'd think he would already know about the false left/right paradigm, and divide and conquer tactics at play here. He's either unenlightened or a troll.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:15 | 4038141 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

MacGyver would never fall for this.....

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:30 | 4038205 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

He would've made a supersonic jet with a paperclip, cat turd, and a double A battery and left the country by now.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:26 | 4038184 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

That's giving politicians too much credit. They aren't fighting over this stupid inane nonsense to distract the populace. I've met politicians, they are too stupid to find the toilet by themselves much less run a man behind the curtain affair. They are owning this banana republic to the bitter end and will be surprised when it falls around their ankles.

The real puppet masters are the Carlyle Groups of the world.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:56 | 4038281 walküre
walküre's picture

I agree with that. The money is running the puppets a.k.a. politicians.

Why does the money take a shot at their President by putting him and the country through this obviously damaging affair? Again, the US is losing credibility and influence or is their plan to come out ahead with a more solid reputation?

What is the plan with this bullshit? Maybe there's no plan which would discredit any known conspiracy between big money and politics. There is a conspiracy and that conspiracy has a plan.

Here's what the American public should do. Round up all reps for all parties and put them in the same room. Then go all  Nuremberg Trials on them and find out who started the conspiracy and for what purpose.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:16 | 4038147 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Trust me, I'm hip. Don't get me wrong, the country is super fucked, and by country I mean anyone that isn't rich enough to have a plane waiting to take them to their house in Monaco once the ponzi ends.

The country is insolvent. the Fed is facilitating the greatest wealth transfer in history to the rich. I get it. I just picked a side in this debate because I have a few minutes to waste, politicians are just the bananas in the republic.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:19 | 4038164 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Picked a side? That's the point bro. There is no side. Same coin, same side.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:28 | 4038195 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Mac, does fonz have to drive over to your house and smack you upside the head? 

I just picked a side in this debate...

There is one side and one side only.  If you're saying that Obama is being scripted to be shown as the hard-ass in this fake debate, then I agree with you.....that the debate is fake.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:14 | 4038128 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Then Harry Reid and Barry can sign the portions of the budget they've been sent.

Keep pumpin that blue fascist propoganda.

 

Voting is a waste of time in a fascist police state.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:34 | 4038211 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Blue fascists. I love how dems are the only fascists now... Remember the f*cking patriot act??? What about the NDAA, that sure didn't get any red votes. Open your eyes.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:41 | 4038227 fonzannoon
Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:41 | 4038229 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

Open OUR eyes?  You're the one that appears to think there's a dime's worth of difference between Team R and Team D.  Open your eyes.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:54 | 4038271 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Reread. I was the one saying the teams are the same, it was the poster I was responding to that was making a distiction that it was just the "blue" that we should be concerned about. The reds are just as bad.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:18 | 4038158 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

Go fuck yourself.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:07 | 4038092 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Not one republican voted for that measure in the House and Senate.

It was rammed down our throats and the conversation is not over. IMO, ACA will be the focal point of the midterms and presidential elections.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:45 | 4038631 11b40
11b40's picture

So, what's your point?  It was the focal point of the last elections.  Your side lost.What exactly is the lesson when not one republican voted for Obamacare, but is still passed?

Keep on beating that dead horse, and watch the party become evermore irelevant.  Even the Koch Bros are now running away from shutting down the government over Obamacare.  Reality is settling on on people who should have known better.  Whocuddanode Obammy would beat them so badly again?  Other than most of the senior members of the party, that is.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 16:09 | 4039039 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

...." It was the focal point of the last elections.  Your side lost."

 

Drink any kool aide with those DNC/Obama talking points????

The last election (2012) was not about ACA/Obamacare, 2010 was and that is when the repubs picked up 60 plus seats....

 

BTW in 2012 all the Repubs in the House also won re-election, so they are apparently just supposed to rubberstamp whatever Obammy wants????? This is theater and you do not understand the sub-plots at all

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 16:22 | 4039080 11b40
11b40's picture

I know that every one of the Republican primary candidates ran agains Obamacare, as did the Presidential nominee as well as all the Senate candidates.  They LOST.

The House has tried about 40 times to repeal it already.......They LOST.

The House has their districts so gerrymandered as to have made themselves a joke, and they are busy electing self-serving morons spouting bumper sticker slogans, rushing ever faster into irrelavency.

I could care less about either party, but I do like reality.  Obamacare may be a real piece of shit law, but it is law, and there is a way to repeal it....but this is not the way, as these rocket scientist are beginning to learn.  Stupid is as stupid does.  Read about the potential consequences of a debt ceiling breach, then remove your head from your ass and start dealing with the situation as it is.  All this reeckless bullshit is making a mockery of any semblance of a functional government, as each party talks their book and caters to their special interest paymasters.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 17:29 | 4039325 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

I agree that there is no difference between the parties. Period...

 

The point I am still making is that if there was a difference, a true difference then the House should be doing exactly what it IS doing......The Red actually opposes the Blue team and the public benefits.

For too long the red team has been wearing lt blue and there is no real difference.

The other point is that the House has NO obligation to fund something they do not like. NONE. That they have done so for decades is WHY there is NO difference in the parties....

That said, if the debt ceiling is NOT raised -GOOD. The Gov't can still pay the interest on the debt with the revenue that it gets every month...The House can pass a BALANCED budget that spends NO more than it takes in....which IMHO is what needs to be happen....I am not chicken little and am not worried the sky will fall if the ceiling is not raised.

That which is unsustainable will not be sustained. Most here on ZH agree that a collapse is inevitable. Had it collapsed in 2009 when the debt was 8trillion we would be starting to come out of it...since then we have dug the hole deeper to the point that the debt is now 17 trillion and much harder to climb out....kicking the can farther down the road, just makes that hole deeper. If it is going to happen anyway - then lets do it now, before it gets any worse

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:18 | 4038155 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Obamacare is law for now but may still be struck down as an unconstitutional tax once the IRS starts trying to collect on the penalty from those who don't sign up for insurance. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:22 | 4038180 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Ah finally, the hammer finds the nail.

40-50 million Americans are without health insurance and are tapped out and cannot afford it. How does fining them cure this problem?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:37 | 4038674 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

It doesn't cure the problem.

It does make them criminals if they don't comply and does take away their choice by forcing them to subsidize new insurance standards.

Some 25 y.o. guy who doesn't even have a girlfriend can pay for someone elses abortion and birth control pills.

"It's the right thing to do."

So what if that guy can't eat...He's INSURED now.

Lucky bastard.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:22 | 4038178 booboo
booboo's picture

Again i must remind you that the "law" passed was changed in multiple ways after the fact so no, it was not passed with the changes.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:32 | 4038197 Jugdish787
Jugdish787's picture

Hey jerkoff...lots of things are LAW but that doesnt mean it can't be changed or talked about.  Did you say that about the "bush tax cuts"??  That was passed and the law too.  Stop with the left right crap and get your head out of your ass.

Directed at MacDumbass

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:16 | 4038388 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Hey Fuckface... I was just saying that there are procedures for overturning laws, namely that you write and pass a law that repeals the first. If you'd like a different form of democracy where we no longer need a consensus of the house, senate, and president then write and pass that law. But as it stands now that's the process. What they are doing now obviates that process.

Directed an name calling douchbag.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:40 | 4038491 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

You are a fucking loser that wandered into the wrong site. Don't sit here and try and legitimize your faggoty pedophile mafia you faggot. And to Jugdish727 I am and always will be the original Jugdish lets get it straight buddy.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:33 | 4038652 11b40
11b40's picture

Is board monitor a paid position for you, or did you just appoint yourself? Wrong site?  I think that may apply to you.  This is fight club, dude.  Maybe you should just go play with yourself if you are not mentlally equipped to keep up. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:41 | 4038688 Jugdish787
Jugdish787's picture

I saw a post from you yesterday and thought, what are the chances of having 2 jugdish user names? I chose this name without knowing there was another jugdish on this site.  We used the term in college, based on the same movie you got it from, to single out those we deemed losers.  

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:45 | 4038691 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

You're adorable. I've been a member for over 2.5 years and I can see you've only been here for 51 weeks and 5 days, almost a year, congrats.

Don't lecture me about wandering onto a website buddy. If anything having trolls like you join the site is just an indication of how ZH is starting to lose its cool. Take your fowl mouthed partisan bullshit back over to CNN, I'm sure the trolls over there will welcome you with open arms.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:43 | 4038696 Jugdish787
Jugdish787's picture

Actually Jerkoff is a term of endearment from where I come from.  At least it is not as bad as "fuckface"...

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:53 | 4038734 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Point is, tone it down. This site has always been about substance and not making it personal. I'm getting trashed on this post but on others everyone agrees with me, it's about the topic, not the person.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 15:28 | 4038907 Jugdish787
Jugdish787's picture

Agreed. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 16:16 | 4039053 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

hey - it ain't a "democracy", it is a REPUBLIC &^*^

We do not govern by "consensus", that is used when the idiots in power want to stop the debate on global warming, NOT the fckg budget. Clearly you do NOT understand the "process".

Consensus is BS...There was a consensus that the earth was flat, there was a consensus that the earth was the center of the universe. Who gives a flying fuck what the "consensus" is ????

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:36 | 4038221 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

You must be blind as well as stupid.  Look at a TV.  Ocare may be law, but that conversation is NOT over.  Read the constitution (sound out the bigger words) and you'll see that the House has the spending power, and the Prez most assuredly does not.  So while neither "side" appeals to me, it's proper that the House should choose to fund any particular program it wants, or not.  In this case, I like their target...but I'm kinda torn between defunding it or just letting it through and watching it crash and burn on its own.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:47 | 4038254 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

Are you serious? Might I remind you that when Obamacare passed , the Democrats had the majority in both houses. Not only that, but the Republicans were totally frozen out of the process, and not one single Republican voted in favor of the bill. Pelosi and Reid drafted the bill behind closed doors with the insurance, pharma and healthcare industries to benefit them, not the American people. Please explain to me how the Republicans could have "gotten off their hands" back then to stop or even modify Obamacare.

Obamacare is going to add another $2.6 trillion to the debt over the next 10 years. The country is already broke and can't afford it. Whether you realize it or not Obamacare and the debt ARE connected and you still want to believe that the Republicans trying to stop it is bullshit? Maybe they should just back off and accelerate the debt and the coming collapse.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:57 | 4038557 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"Obamacare was voted on 3 years ago, it passed. It is law now. If the republicans wanted to defeat it they should have gotten off their hands then"

 

Correct.  It passed when the Democrats held a majority in both the house and the senate.  I think that it pased on strictly partisan vote tallies.  So, your premise isn't valid.

 

Not that I think there is much difference between the "two parties", just wanted to clarify your statement with more information.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:51 | 4038698 11b40
11b40's picture

None of your additional information makes any difference.  In other words, it is your premise that is not valid.

It is law.  It is being implemented, even with the .gov shutdown, in case you have not noticed.  If the Republican party wants to pass a new law repealing or modifying the current one, they can start on it today.  In fact, the House has already tried to repeal it about 40 times.  In case you don't understand 8th grade civics, it then goes to the Senate, where the Dems currently rule, and where it dies.  Even if the Senate happened to pass it, Obummer still has the final say with his veto pen.

This subject attracts a lot of heat, but not much light.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:56 | 4038742 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"It is being implemented, even with the .gov shutdown, in case you have not noticed."

 

In its entirety?  I think not.  The largest donors to the congressional and senatorial races seem to have been able to delay their mandate to take a part in this fiasco, haven't they?  I DO understand civics - that is why I pointed out that the R's were opposed to from the outset.  I had no premise, I was merely making a comment on someone elses.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:00 | 4038016 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Ryan gave some suggestions on how to generate a more viable long-term budget for the US, including increasing revenue, reducing spending, changing Medicare premiums, reforming Medigap plans, asking Federal workers to contribute more to their own retirement, and all those other talking points which have been tried before.

More viable? 

lol

The US has no budget, and hasn't for years. 

AAA mother fuckers.  Another round of QE for everyone!

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:01 | 4038069 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I'd like to know how he would like to "increast revenue." What new taxes would be levied and/or what taxes would be raised?

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:40 | 4038233 Cow
Cow's picture

Excel spreadsheet 

GDP*(1.09)^foeva

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:53 | 4038725 11b40
11b40's picture

Yeah, I have the same question for Mr. Tax Cut.  Where does new revenue come from.  Oh, I forgot.....it must be Mr. Bernake.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:03 | 4038084 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

The drinks are on the house with Old Yellen holding the fiat credit card...drink up boys!

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:48 | 4038021 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Oh, if only we had elected this guy's team.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:52 | 4038033 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

+10,000,000 in Venture Capital. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:49 | 4038025 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

The reason it would be "palatable" is that in order to get both parties happy and reach a compromise, all that would happen is for various long-term assumptions would be changed, with zero actual, real current impact - something politicians are good at, because it does not generate an adverse impact during their tenure (afterwards, it becomes someone else's problem).

 

harry truman they are not.

pass the buck, bitchez.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:01 | 4038071 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Little known fact:

 

Einstein was contemptuous of Harry Truman.  Imagine how he'd have felt about cheny and his monkey.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:27 | 4038188 booboo
booboo's picture

Einstein was a statist fucktard that thought that a board of three people should make all of the decisions regarding the lifes of the individual Americans, he may have been brilliant at math but he was a fucking nut.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:48 | 4038255 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

So you're saying he would have liked Bush and Cheney a lot, then. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:12 | 4038389 Geruda
Geruda's picture

On your ass as usual.

Brilliant theoretical physicist, so-so mathematician...

 

Boner and what 2 other people are doing what you describe...?

 

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:41 | 4038685 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Harry Truman was mobbed up from the git go. His AG was a mob lawyer, and the Pendergast machine in KC wasn't just a debating society. He's why Hoover didn't got after the Syndicate until Eisenhower.

JFK took their money, drank their liquor, and fucked their women. But he wouldn't hold back Bobby.

GS, BOA, the rest of the finacials running Barry have more legal cover, but we're back in the Truman days. D pres, R Congress, the only thing gets done is what the mob wants. Except this is a legal mob.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:50 | 4038027 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

HAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!   So Mr. Conservative.....the guy that was MORE popular than that psychopath, VC charlatan Romney......is the one not only pushing through amnesty for illegals while this shitstorm flies around us....but is NOW bending over for Obama dick.

Republican supporters are SOOOOO fucking stupid.   All these years of you cocksuckers calling us the tin foil hatters.....warning you of these fake sons of bitches.

Bite it.....bite it hard.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:00 | 4038065 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Dumbotron:  These issues will all be settled in the streets.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:16 | 4038138 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

HAHAHAHA !!!!   You are laughingly delusional !!!!  Thanks.....I needed that.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:07 | 4038354 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

If history is a guide - and it always is - there will be a reckoning.  Avoid crowds.  

 

Actually, in your case, stick to them....

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 15:11 | 4038802 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

This is going to be your typical American Sheeple response........

"ZZZZZzzzzzzz.....snort......hmmmm.....Honey ???   Is Honey Boo Boo on yet?   Ok.....wake me up when it does.  ZZZZZZzzzzzz......."

 

And if YOU CON Game are caught in the streets......it's going to be......."OWWwww....OWww.....fuck,shit.......my eyes...my eyes.....wash that pepper spray out....OWWWW....

And if you persist....it will be a quick mouth kiss to the pavement, a knee to the back and in the paddy wagon you go.  And if you're really that gung ho.....it's a free pass to the Celestial Dirt Nap via your ticket getting punched by either a .40 or a .223.

But hey.....Get on witcha' bad self.....Capt. Patriot.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 15:12 | 4038807 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Dupe.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:55 | 4038045 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

Well gosh darn, all that gum flapping and not one mention of the largest budget item, the MIC. "Reform" SS, increase medicate premiums, slash medical, but not a peep about the military.  I wonder why it's so hard to get behind these shit  bags.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:52 | 4038267 Clever Name
Clever Name's picture

Yes, where were these so called conservatives that are so concerned with our debt/deficit/solvency when it came to funding Iraq/Afghanistan?

Crickets...

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:53 | 4038268 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

Now that you mention it, I've seen lots of "plans" from either side proposing cuts to social programs or the military, but never seen one that attacks both.  I honestly wonder how such a plan, proposed by, say, a president in a SOTU speech, would go down among the sentient portion of the citizenry.

THAT would be "unprecedented".  Would even convince me that someone is at least TRYING to be serious about our problems, even if it is too late.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:53 | 4038547 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Ron Paul

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 17:24 | 4039294 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Right?  Either this is a perfect example of the results of the media blackout against the former Congressman from Texas, or a perfect example of the short-term memory capacity of Generation Y. 

Hell, both... 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:55 | 4038047 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

"We could provide relief from the discretionary spending levels in the Budget Control Act in exchange for structural reforms to entitlement programs.""

Translation: We will cut the pork, but we want entitlements cut as well.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:49 | 4038719 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Ah, the Great Betrayal is on the runway, ready to take off.

Lessee, Barry puts up Simpson Bowes to spread the lie that SS isn't sustainable. Now he's going to be 'forced' to accept pension cuts so the Trust Fund can be stolen to avoid default. Because the money's already spent in bailouts.

Meanwhile, all social programs will have to be cut so the tax money can be used to avoid default. Because the money's already spent in bailouts.

Translation, take tax money from the people who paid it, and take insurance premiums from the people who paid it. It's already given to the rich.

 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:54 | 4038049 centerline
centerline's picture

Rearranging the deck chairs again.  lol.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 11:54 | 4038052 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Anything short of dismantling the Fed and burning Bernanke's beard on the Capitol steps is bullshit.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:03 | 4038078 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

ryan, you're no better.  you think it's ok to have a plan that balances the budget in 10 years in order to placate the free spenders?  by that time the debt could be 20 trillion and debt service would be 750 billion a year.   you know you're never going to get the votes from the gov't dependents that elected the likes of Obama, reid & pelosi, so you may as well stick to your guns and follow through on this.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:06 | 4038094 Surging Chaos
Surging Chaos's picture

This is the same guy that was literally begging on his hands and knees to pass TARP. That's all I need to know about Ryan.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 15:00 | 4038753 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Well, this is the other shoe.

If the government keeps up the fiction it needs to borrow money that it could create, you have to pay all the debt instruments issued.

David Stockman, thirty years ago, revealed that 'deficits' were artificial talking points for anti-government terrorists to frame debate away from reality. Still, nobody can figure that out.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:07 | 4038103 manich
manich's picture

A CR put for vote on the house floor seems like a good compromise from both sides. $19B more than Ryan's budget, and $217B less than BO's. Come On Boner! You win and BO loses that one. Something is fishey here.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:10 | 4038105 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

Paul Ryan is a faggoty little cock sucker.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:13 | 4038125 JR
JR's picture

Ryan’s proposal, to my understanding, leaves out Obama’s big casino, Obamacare. This has the look of a trick; the leaders of the House and Senate could quickly come to terms on the debt limit and leave Obamacare in the budget, satisfying the bankers.

In short, the Ryan proposal, along with the Fed market manipulations and Regime Media hysteria, is just more D.C. smoke and mirrors.

If Obama gets his way, this will be the 56th time since 1978 the debt ceiling has been raised for bankers. If Bernanke could keep the market up for the dire consequences of Obama’s election and reelection, he can keep it up now; nothing has happened. 

Not only does the Fed print its money out of thin air but its threats and fear mongering are created from thin air.

The bankers own this fiat currency. They want the debt ceiling raised so they can loan the government even more money at interest, not only to pay its past bills but to create new spending limits for this Leviathan government, making the bankers even richer.

“Lifting the debt ‘ceiling’” means robbing the people so the bankers can become richer by lending the people and their government their own credit on paper and charging them usury (interest).

Obama ‘s espousal of lifting the DEBT ‘ceiling’ is in defiance of  the Founders who wrote into Article I of the U.S. Constitution:

Congress shall have the Power to Coin

Money and Regulate the Value Thereof.

The United States is in a post-Constitutional system. Under a constitutional system, international banking families could not exist in the USA to rob the people by charging usurious interest on their fiat money, the latter man’s only creation out of thin air.

“This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample ssynthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon.” – Robert H. Hemphill (Credit Manager of Federal Reserve Bank, Atlanta, Ga.)

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:16 | 4038148 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

+1 awesome JR.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:13 | 4038136 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

I fucking hate this Eddie Munster lifetime politician fraud. Shit , he fucking sleeps with a lifetime liberal Democrat. 

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:18 | 4038142 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Ha!  Too Funny.  Not an hour ago I posted on another thread the reasoning that has (once again) pissed off all my relatives with me.

This whole thing is a Kabuki charade designed to give everyone cover while they gut Social Security and Medicare.  They'll take several Trillion dollars that the middle class has already paid in, and swap it for a Trillion or 2 in "Debt Ceiling."  Then they'll use the increased space under the "Debt Ceiling" to print more Treasury bonds which they'll give to the banks in return for even more worthless derivatives.  See?  It all zeros out.  Even-Steven.  Except the middle class no longer gets what they paid for and the Elites get out of any risk.

Obama's been angling to destroy Social Security and Medicare since his days in the Illinois Legislature.  How anybody has ever considered this guy to be "Progressive" is beyond me.  And you have to be totally and utterly delusional to think he's a Socialist.  Obama has always advocated the unification of Corporate and State power.  Notice the core of "ObamaCare" is mandatory taxes paid to private corporations?  And they are "taxes;" that was the basis by which SCOTUS found it Constitutional.  When people are forced to pay taxes to private corporations the name for it is called "Fascism," not "Socialism."

And this whole budget/debt ceiling charade is just the next fig leaf under which we transform more public money, under penalty of law, to corporate crony pockets.  When Paul Ryan and Barack Obama are making nice, there can only be one thing going on, and this is it.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:21 | 4038176 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Those programs are already gone - they just haven't been recognized as such by the public.  The money paid in has already been spent looted.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 14:54 | 4038737 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

No. It's federal government obligations.

To say it's gone is just to let them off future payments. It's not like cash in a safety deposit box, it's debt that needs to be repaid.

So, no default on the Fed (the holder of most of the federal debt) or the Chinese Central Bank or the Japanese or the bond hedge funds; instead default on grandma and grandpa.

That's the theft here.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:21 | 4038428 Inbetween is pain
Inbetween is pain's picture

Give me a break.  Universal health care is not fascism.  Our country is so backward on this issue.  We pay hundreds of billions of dollars to the insurance industry to serve as middlemen and we get what?  Nothing except a useless service industry.  We could all have affordable health care without the insurance industry.  And don't give me the argument about the government getting between me and my doctor--they're far more benign than a fucking insurance executive.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 18:12 | 4039455 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Give yourself a break.  Read comments before you respond.

Forcing everybody to purchase health insurance from private corporations has absolutely nothing to do with Universal Health Care.  Indeed, it is exactly the corporate finance antidote to Universal Health Care.  Health insurance is indeed the problem with health care in America.   Which is why ACA (aka "ObamaCare") is a continuation and extension of everything that is collapsing in our health care finance system.

Obama is not advancing Universal Health Care in America.  In fact, the very first thing he did in proposing ACA was to make sure it in no way could ever result in Universal Health Care.  So far from Universal Health Care, Obama is enforcing tax payments be made to the Insurance Industry.  If that ain't Fascist I don't know what is, and neither did Mussolini.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:18 | 4038151 RiverDrifter
RiverDrifter's picture

I stopped taking Paul Ryan seriously (if I ever did take him seriously...I don't think I ever did but I digress) when his plan to balance the budget a year or two ago only worked if we had 5% growth in GDP every year for 10 years or something mathematically impossible like that. 

This guy is a headline politician - he says things that make for good-sounding headlines but when you read into the story and see things like a necessary 5% GDP growth for a decade in order for his plan to work, he actually looks silly.  They all do, these Headline Politicians...they're regurgitating headline quotes from the party memo desk to sound good but no one offers any REALISTIC plans to fix the issues their headlines are about.  

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 12:38 | 4038226 booboo
booboo's picture

The only "debt" that the U.S. is obligated to pay is the principle and interest on the debt, everything else is a political promise to pay.

Wed, 10/09/2013 - 13:01 | 4038314 TheMayor
TheMayor's picture

Next republican candidates for President and VP should include Paul Ryan and Rand Paul.

I'd prefer to see both. 

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