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Senate Democrats Warn Debt Ceiling Extension May Not Pass Unless Republicans Also Agree To Reopen Government
As the White House statement suggested earlier, the GOP gambit for a "clean" 6-week debt limit extension, already accepted as a given by the market, may not be able to pass unless the Republicans fold some more, according to the latest news out of The Hill which reports that "Senate Democrats could reject a House GOP proposal to extend the nation’s debt ceiling by a few weeks, saying any short-term debt-limit increase should also reopen the government." This step was to be expected: the House Republicans are once again in disarray and this is the perfect time to demand even more concessions. However, with their political credibility, and capital, already at record lows, will the republicans agree to not only fold on the debt ceiling, albeit temporarily, but also passing a Continuing Resolution - which as a reminder was the source of contention all along?
More from The Hill:
A senior Senate Democratic aide said “don’t assume” Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will accept the six-week debt-limit extension House Republicans are coalescing around.
Reid again called on Republicans to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling and pledged Democrats would then negotiate with them.
“We’ll have a conversation with them about anything. Open the government, let us pay our bills,” he said Thursday morning on the Senate floor.
Even if House Republicans pass a clean short-term debt-limit increase, one without spending cuts attached, Senate Democrats might balk if it leaves important federal agencies such as the National Institutes of Health and the Environmental Protection Agency mostly shuttered.
In other words, while stocks have retraced the entire shutdown drama slide, near-term maturing Bills still have not.
And if there is one thing that is a stumbling block, this may well be it. Stay tuned for even more melodrama from the House Republicans: will they fold some more, or won't they?
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capitulate to my every single demand and then we'll talk; promise.
And todays Dousche Of The Day Award goes to, drumroll please, Harry Reid!!!
Cracks In Democrats Exposed – Harry Reid Snaps Back At D.C. Mayor (VIDEO)and you find you're back in Vegas, with a handle in your hand yeah
Taliban Mocks Shutdown: Lawmakers 'Sucking Blood Of Their Own People'...
You know it has to be close to the end when you find yourself agreeing with the Taliban.
Holy cow. First, I selected Vlad as my new President. And now I select the Taliban as my new army? Damn, my asshole is getting really sore.
And Putin and Assad.
And by talk he means, "HAHA! WE WON! LOSER! GFY!!!"
Republicans are the oragami party.
Oh Boner, you should know you can't play Texas Hold Em against the casino and not be willing to go ALL IN!!! Your the best the GOP's got???
GEEEZUS, its so sad! Bammer and the Boyz know you dont have the guts for a full blown default, and if that's the case, your fucked before you even got your hand, clown!! They think they are playing on house money, and you think your going to scare them off the jackpot with some little 6 week raise of the debt ceiling bluff, get real you fucking amatuer!!!
Here are your options: bend the fuck over today, do exactly what Bammer and the Boyz have commanded you to do, and end this bullshit charade (and your political career)
OR
Look across the table at Bammer and Boyz, shove ALL your chips into the middle, and say fuck you bitchez, were defaulting then, and here's the kicker, you HAVE TO MEAN IT! Otherwise, fold you little bitch and just resign as Speaker and save us all this BS!
Boner is a PUSSY...........expect ANYTHING from this guy............
You ain't justa sh*ttin.... and a spineless one at that.
Q: How many democraps does it take to change a light bulb?
A: That's not funny and you're a racist.
Q: How many republicants does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Nobody knows because no one has seen one since Reagan passed away.
H
Email Boehner and insist that he NOT do the extension deal with people who refuse to negotiate
http://www.speaker.gov/contact
Demand a Balanced Budget
If he hears from enough of us, his spine may stiffen
"capitulate to my every single demand and then we'll talk; promise."
Negotiation Reality courtesy of Reid, Pelosi, & 0zer0: "Talk to the hand."
@VD: "capitulate to my every single demand and then we'll talk; promise."
Hail To The Chief! All hail Emperor Barack GluteUS Maximus! All GOP strategists bow down and worship!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jzMw9ezE3I
"...burn the mother down..."
That Big-Gov scam isn't socialism, that's an investment in our children's future.
Everybody loves the socialism they got rich off of, are getting rich off of, or are getting free motor-scooters from.
Sheeeeeit... Cain I calls fo mah scootah on mah ObPhone?
Republicans leadership is full of pussies. They will cave faster than shit. Boehner is crying as I type this.
GOP will fade from history faster than the collapse of the Whig party....
....about the only good I see from any of this.....
All ye 2016 GOP Presidential Candidates -- What sayest thou now? What say ye?
[crickets]
Might as well just dissolve the house of reps. Powerless, feckless, cowards
At least they slow things down. But on the other hand, it gives the whole system a semblance of legitimacy... hmmmm...
what happens if they dont come to an agreement today, dow falls 50 pts tomm?
this shit is ridiculous, i have never seen a market up so much on nothing. its like the past few days never happened.
die bohener, obama, and all people invovled.
Total farce in Washington, more can kicking, Plunder Women Yellen in charge at the fed, markets wild, and gold snoozes downward? The Fed is still calling the tune, the rest of the government is irrelevant.
Plunder Woman - I love it!!! Why are you surprised? Of course they are calling the shots since they are effectively bankrolling the Feds. I think all this has NOTHING to do with Boner, Bumma, Dems or Reps. It's the inevitable scrambling of a falling empire.
Debasing the currency has set off the same frenetic activity in Rome, Spain, China, Germany, Argentina and now here, The only one who handled their demise ably was Britain - perhaps what history will remember her for over all else....She drowned with style.
I heard the MI6 guy whining that Edward Snowden had ruined the West's technological edge on intelligence (ironic) and made things more dangerous. Wow, the entire defensive strategy of the West is voyeurism into desert tents. I'm sure while we're scapegoating Snowden for telling the truth about what state of "democracy" we are currently in, the Brits will still keep their heads in the sand about trucking in the sons of Mohammed in order to keep their multi-culti underdrawers clean and white. How about this; figure out why it makes a difference in your miserable existence to resist being a muzzie slave then maybe you can figure out what it might take to prevent that. And being able to diddle youngsters and get away with it is not exactly liberty, you can do that under the muzzies.
Why are democrats crying? It gives their voters and friends (government employees) 6 more weeks of paid vacations!
Does anyone honestly actually think they won't raise the debt target? Everytime ZH gets all worked up about how this time it might not get raised. Of course it will get raised!
The issue is more fundamental than that.
Numbers on a screen are NEVER going to be allowed to destroy a system which can change those numbers by decree. This money stuff is not the vehicle that can cause the Great Reset too often talked of on ZH.
They are just numbers on a screen. There is nothing sacred about them. A decision to change them will change them.
The only thing that matters is joules in barrels of crude that push trucks to deliver groceries. THOSE are immune to decree. You can call condensate . . . oil. You can pretend natural gas pushing trash trucks around matters. But you can't change how many joules are needed to push trucks from Iowa to NYC to deliver food. Nat gas doesn't do that. Govt decree doesn't do that.
Crude does that. And it won't much longer.
I think nat gas can be quite usefull though. 250 km of the driving car in the city for the cost of 5 usd, in some places that are rich with nat gas. I agree in principle that the energy needs will probably be the thing that ends the present ponzi. Unless something else does it first. predicting future is just so complex.
At our current rate of improvement we will be majority solar in 15 years, When the costs drop far below current kW levels the mad scramble will be on to replace with ever more cheaper, efficient solar and better and better batteries. Coal, as an industry, is dead unless someone discovers it can be used for teleportation or healing or virtual sex.
If you think that is the remotest possibility that solar will provide (EVER) more than 10% of energy needs, then you might want to move South. It's going to get very, very cold indeed north of Georgia if our future is solar.
LOL I already iive in the South and if you knew anything about solar you'd know that it degrades in hot weather. Our future (not today, tomorrow or next year) IS solar for several reasons. Solar is rapidly gaining in efficiency while declining rapidly in price. For example, the panels on our house cost 1/2 what they would have two years ago and are 50% more efficient. The salesman said in three years the cost will drop another 50% and efficiency will rise 40-50%. Already longterm wind power contracts are far lower than coal or natural gas.
Fossil fuel dooms us as a civilization. It's continued use is mathematically impossible from both resource and financial levels. Solar has inspired research into other areas - artificial photosynthesis and batteries (the largest facility is nearby).
Being optimistic is not popular on ZH but I would bet the same arguments were made for gas, oil, electricity and nuclear - never replace good old wood. Put it this way, if solar is not in our future then energy companies (like Siemens for example) have all erred since their budgets are increasingly devoted to alternatives across the board.
it's not clear that coal is dead. maybe coal is dead in the usa.
but we're sending more and more coal to china every day.
HOW 'BOUT NO?!
http://youtu.be/FZoEz8tNrMQ
Close moar, shut the black hole down.
There is nothing the (R) won't fold on.
You got to know when to fold'em, know when to fold'em
Know when to cry on TV, know when to run,
You never count your votes, while you're sobbing on the TV
There'll be time enough for sobbing, when the folding's done.
I'd rather eat cockroaches and twigs than keep paying these assholes. SHUT IT THE F**K DOWN!!!
Rinos need to man up and tell Obama and Reid to go back to school... the HOUSE holds the purse. They control the fucking money and there's nothing these assholes can do.
That's the way it was set up in the Constitution. One branch gets the army, the other gets the money. The division keeps them from sitting down and working out how to devour the people.
Here's the deal:
1) Obamacare business exemption extended to 2 years
2) Obamacare personal exemption established for 2 years
3) Medical device tax rescinded
4) Manadatory congressional enroillment in Obamacare
For:
1) Reopen governemnt
2) Increase debt ceiling $1T
Cut budget by 500 billion.
The Dems have a real incentive for extending the individual mandate. They need to push the agony out past 2014 elections. The Repubs can pull the rug by caving right before the Dems agree to postpone the individual mandate, tell everybody they tried their best, and let the Dems wear the damned millstone going into 2014. That's white-knucklin it, but maybe it works.
That is not the deal. If it were none of this would have happened.
Obama is not going to hold up Anything now that enrollment has started. I heard on C-SPAN today that there is a 7% enrollment (creating an account) so far even With the horror of the glitches and insurance companies dragging their feet, kicking and screaming (cry me a river). Not bad for a couple of weeks with 2 cans and a string.
Claiming any percent on a busted system is fake as a Diebold ballot. You'll never see the data either. "It's personal, you have to trust us". Can't get more permanently fucked than this.
But it's ok when the wingers headline sez only 1% signed up. I didn't expect wingers here to be anything but sour. I read you guys like a book... a comic book.
They are all full of shit. They use statistical terminology to infer unwarranted legitimacy, but they make up the numbers. According to another of their outrageous lies, 7% is about 20 million people. The fine for not turning yourself in is $220. They are probably claiming all the people who already have insurance that meets or exceeds the unconstitutional dictate as if they had signed up, and they will probably keep doing this for '6 weeks' until they use them all up.
.....bah! Late night second wind. No chance, unfortunately.
This is what happens when amatuers try to play hardbll with pros. All this could have easily been avoided if Boehner wasn't such a wus. If he were more worried about his party than his position as Speaker of the House, he would have told the self-promoting, ladder-climbing wannabes to STFU and get in line. The Senate Dems had already come around to a number very close to what they wanted....but no, Boehner let a vocal minority take control, and now the entire GOP is in a box, desparately trying to find a way out.
Meek, mild-mannered, little Harry Reid has been having a large time at their expense. Don't forget, Harry had to approve of the Ted Cruz all-nighter last week, which he wisely did, and he calmly watched as the Texas wonder boy made a total fool of himself.
Now, I'm not taking sides in this pathetic Washingtom clown show, but I do know a little about politics and negotiation. It was obvious from the start that Obama was holding all the cards, was not going to budge in Obamcare, and his opponents had nothing but hot air. Obama also has the bully pulpit, which he has been using to pound them about every day, and he has a unified party. If Boner had balls as big as Polisi's, he wouldn't have his current problems.
If the Senate Dems now hold firm on a clean CR, the Reps are screwed. The blame is going to them, rightly or wrongly. The public doesn't get deep enough in the weeds to even understand what a clean CR means, but it sounds good, it's easy to say, and the Reps look like a bunch of howling monkeys right now, while Obummer, Reid, and Pelosi remain calm & collected.
Right now, this looks like it could go either way, but I kind of think Reid is going to twist the knife a little more to drive the point home to the smart-ass tea baggers in the Senate.
Keep the popcorn coming.
Excellent analysis, and thanks for it.
Nice try but your "not taking sides" quote is a farce.
There are what, 2 Taxed Enough Allready in the Senate? Cruz, maybe Rand? 25 or so in the House. So you have 27 people trying to rock the Blue/Red fascist boat.
check out the "Old Gray Whore" today. The fascist er business lobby is pissed with the Taxed Enough Allready Republicans. Not getting a return on their investment. LOL
Nice try yourself. You are making my point, which is about smart tactics vs weakness.
One thing I learned in over 30 years of running a small business is that a little fish swimming with big sharks needs to select his fights carefully. As you note, the 'shut it down' position is quite small in number. I would say it's more like 70-80 vs over 400, although the real hard core may be about what you guess.
So, when you are out-gunned and really don't have anything to bargain with, take the best deal you can get and try not to look weak....and especially try not to look stupid. I also know a little about guerrilla warfare, and this is the first rule --- He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day. There is no glory in death, but some sacrifice themselves on the altar of recklessness and hubris. As an example, see Ted Cruz. For him, and some of these other guys, it is more about grandstanding and personal gain than it is about actually winning. But that's what leaders are for - to keep the clowns from directing traffic. Both McConnel and Boehner have failed badly in their jobs, and the GOP is suffering for it.
Ted Cruz is doing what he was Sent there to do...
Win or Lose - fight, get knocked down, get up and fight some more,
You sound more like what John McCain would do, than what should be done...
you said.."I also know a little about guerrilla warfare, and this is the first rule --- He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."
F- You - Remember the Alamo!
Agreed. Come and Take It led to Remember the Alamo which led to Battle of San Jacinto followed by Texas Independence. To bad about 14 years later if my memory serves me we joined some dumbass Union. Secession and reclaiming our portions of New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Colorado would be fine with me. Most important piece of paper i own is my Texas birth certificate.
Somehow, I doubt we will be shouting "Remember Ted Cruz".
Falling on the sword of principal sounds lovely, but it is wrong to sacrifice warriors in a helpless battle when those same soldiers could be used productively later in the fight to win the war.
Nobody is getting sacrificed- it isn't like the people who put Cruz and Paul in office are going to change their minds and vote Team Donkey when they come up for re-election. Yes, DC is getting the vapors and so is the country club set that runs Team Elephant but it isn't going to change the minds of the poeple who are sick and tired of the same old same old.
I hope it does damage the GOP- it has been the party of central government since its inception and its about time to drive a stake through its heart. The tomorrow you dream of where your sacrificed warriors will do some good is not going to come, may as well let it blow apart and pick up the pieces.
dup
11B40 IS taking sides....the RINO side....Are you Lindsey Graham 11B40?
Well, I do have a pickumup truck (Lindsey loves his), and I once had an AR-15 (Lindsey has one, too), and I am from SC....but, no, I'm married, so I'm not Lindsey. Have met him a few times, though.
Thanks for playing Mr. Rove, but I think we've heard this before.
1140, long ago the real vets from that long ago war called you out as a fake..if by posting long rambling leftist BS now is going to change the fact you are a troll, forget it..your obuma ass kissing should have given you aids by now.
every attempt at reducing .gov and you come here with this BS. obuma holds all the cards give up OBEY. Fuck you
Calling me out as a fake what?
Sorry if you have trouble presenting cogent arguments. I have simply been pointing out the real situation as it is transpiring in DC. While I can appreciate the passion many here have regarding our political and financial plight, and share much of it myself, I also try to look through the scope of reality.
There is serious damage being done to the GOP. I don't have time to review all the issues with you, but the party is veering towards irrelevance. Now that may seem OK to many, but do you really want to see the Dems on top again for decades? One party control is not healthy, and while I know that on many issues, they are just 2 sides of the same coin, there are differences. Also, the only hope we have (and it is a slim hope) is through two oposing parties grinding it out. But there are smart ways fighting, and then there are losers. Take your choice
Now, as to your questioning my credentials, or anyone else for that matter, if I had posting priveleges, I would be glad to show you some pictures of my time with 1/506/101ABN while operating out Camp Evans, I-Corp, RVN, or some of the ones when I was TDY running convoys with the 630th MP Co. from Camp Eagle up route 9 during Lam son 719, or some from the period I was a Battalion Courrier delivering sealed bags and envelopes wherever I was told to take them. Oh, and for any of you vets out there familar with that op, I also know that the 630th was based in CRB, not Phu Bai, but they were an Airmobile MP Co and brought up North for support.
....and before I forget.....fuck you, too, overmedicated.
It appears the repubicans behind the curtain are no smarter otherwise they would have some "plan" besides hate. lol, wingers with a plan... I know, MCCain... ROMNEY ! jhc on a stick. And you wonder why I laff at wingers. You do it to yourselves. Don't worry C. Christy will save you.
The petulant children will get what they want or take their baseball and go home......if only the Rs had a "set" they would say fine...and go home as well. If they cave, and they will, they have no leverage left...it will be the same game in December or next summer. Give me what we want or else.....
Secondly, we now have large corporations attempting to twist the arms of Tea Party guys in congress by saying they will back opposition to Tea Party candidates that have actually had a set of nuts to stand up to the Demo bullies. What most do not suspect is that these corporations will simply have a different set of nuts to strangle hold. I say the hell with them...time for a stand. STOP THE DAMN SPENDING IN DC AND GET BIG LOBBYISTS AND CORPORATIONS OUT OF DC.
Roger that last sentence.....but good luck.
Anyone who wants to know how the fat cats got soooo fat, have a look:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Street_Project
Pussy Republicans.....
Maybe Mark Levin is right...all citizens have left are "state conventions" to deal with things that DC will not...balanced budget, get money lobbyists out of politics, term limits....to name a few.
"Does anyone honestly actually think they won't raise the debt target? Everytime ZH gets all worked up about how this time it might not get raised. Of course it will get raised!"
Lucy keeps telling Charlie Brown that she won't pull the football away when he tries to kick it. C. Brown keeps believing her.
"Pussy Republicans....."
Yea, but you must admit boner is lookin' sharp with that mascara on.
It just gets harder and harder for the Republicans to maintain that all is well in our republic. When will they realize that the President's greatest strength is the fear-and-denial crowd, joined by the idiots, who keep thinking that there is nothing unique about what is happening in the country (i.e. Jon Stewart's audience). Somebody needs to come right out and tell the people that we are under an attempted socialist coup that is being sneaked in under the cover of the government's terror that we will finally all realize how truly destitute we are. The numbskulls are blithely believing that the situation could be fixed by a marginal tax increase on the rich. They cannot, and/or will not, entertain the thought that we will be trying to flee across the border into Mexico soon seeking opporunities not offered here. Wanna do something real "eye-opening?" Cut of the damn Fed spigot for monetizing the debt. 95% of everybody wouldn't have the least idea what that meant until they saw what happens. Then perhaps they might recognize that lies are not redeemable and we are screwed.
While I agree with your sentiments, I think you have identified the wrong group when you asy the "President's greatest strength comes from the fear-and-denial crowd".
I think it is more the "maintain the status quo" crowd. After all, it is Wall St., big multi-nationals, the MIC, and entrenched political class who have the most to lose. They also have the greatest ability to pull the strings. It's like throwing red-meat to red-necks when blamng Welfare-Queens buying steak with food stamps for our budget problems, but ignoring all the true Welfare King siphoning off untold trillions.
Why have our jobs disappeared? Why are we fighting wars all over the place? Why are we allowing Wall St. to rape us? Why have we let the Constitution be shredded for "Homeland Security"?
A reasonable distinction. I think I was including this class in the denial game. At some point they will be sitting on millions woithout any value, without any security. Then a new type of leader will seize control, and it will be in that strongman's best interest to point out to the sufferers who caused all this. Their denial that such a thing is impossible (after all they live in gated communities) makes them the desperate part of deniers. Somehow this will all work itself out. Maybe it will. What do I know? I'm just some furious schmuck watching the collapse.
Stay furious. "Furioius" needs to reach critical mass.
Let's play Twister!
Oh, wait...
Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell?
Nevermind.
http://www.treasury.gov/initiatives/pages/debtlimit.aspx
Debt Limit
The debt limit is the total amount of money that the United States government is authorized to borrow to meet its existing legal obligations, including Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and other payments. The debt limit does not authorize new spending commitments. It simply allows the government to finance existing legal obligations that Congresses and presidents of both parties have made in the past.
Failing to increase the debt limit would have catastrophic economic consequences. It would cause the government to default on its legal obligations – an unprecedented event in American history. That would precipitate another financial crisis and threaten the jobs and savings of everyday Americans – putting the United States right back in a deep economic hole, just as the country is recovering from the recent recession.
Congress has always acted when called upon to raise the debt limit. Since 1960, Congress has acted 78 separate times to permanently raise, temporarily extend, or revise the definition of the debt limit – 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents. In the coming weeks, Congress must act to increase the debt limit. Congressional leaders in both parties have recognized that this is necessary. Recently, however, a number of myths about this issue have begun to surface.