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White House, Republican Meeting "Inconclusive", To Continue Throughout The Night
In what can at best be described as a "fluid" situation, one in which according to initial press reports the White House and the GOP couldn't even compromise on what had actually been said, it seems that while both sides are eager to move on with the debt ceiling extension, the GOP is still hoping in trying to preserve some political capital, of which it will be left with virtually nil if it caves to every last demand by the democrats, namely "reopen the government and then we can negotiate" losing all leverage in the process. And a loss of all capital and leverage is precisely what the GOP will "achieve" according to Politico, which clarified that "House Republicans told Obama that they could reopen the federal government by early next week if the president and Senate Democrats agree to their debt-ceiling proposal" - a proposal which Obama has already said he would accept. In other words, full capitulation by Boehner appears imminent. Politico adds: "President Barack Obama and House Republicans clashed in a meeting Thursday afternoon over how soon the government can be reopened, even as the GOP offered to lift the debt limit for six weeks, according to sources familiar with the session. Aides will continue the discussion through the night to see if they could find common ground on how to move forward on the debt limit and government funding."
Here is the day in Washington in 2 minutes (via WaPo):
More from Politico:
Obama repeatedly pressed House Republicans to open the government, asking them “what’s it going to take to” end the shutdown, those sources said. The meeting was described by both sides as cordial but inconclusive. Sources described the meeting without attribution, because the meeting was private.
Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) described the Republicans’ process as being two steps: passing the debt ceiling bill, and then open a broad budget conference before the government can be reopened.
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and Treasury Secretary Jack Lew that this was a “good-faith” effort by Republicans. Ryan said both sides should “put their guns back in their holsters” — a bid to reach an agreement to avoid default, re-open the government and start broader budget talks.
Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) described the Republicans’ process as being two steps: passing the debt ceiling bill, and then open a broad budget conference before the government can be reopened.
Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and Treasury Secretary Jack Lew that this was a “good-faith” effort by Republicans. Ryan said both sides should “put their guns back in their holsters” — a bid to reach an agreement to avoid default, re-open the government and start broader budget talks.
“We had a very useful meeting,” Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said, upon returning from the White House Thursday evening. “It was clarifying I think for both sides as to where we are and the takeaway from the meeting was, our teams are going to be talking further tonight, we’ll have more discussion, we’ll come back to have more discussion. The president said that he would go and consult with the administration folks and hopefully we can see a way forward after that.”
A senior House GOP aide said Obama “did not say yes or no to House Republicans’ offer.” Both sides are continuing talks tonight, according to the aide.
Here are the earlier statements by both the White House press office:
The President had a good meeting with members of the House Republican Leadership this evening; the meeting lasted approximately an hour and a half. The President, along with the Vice President, Treasury Secretary Lew, Denis McDonough and Rob Nabors listened to the Republicans present their proposal. After a discussion about potential paths forward, no specific determination was made. The President looks forward to making continued progress with members on both sides of the aisle. The President’s goal remains to ensure we pay the bills we’ve incurred, reopen the government and get back to the business of growing the economy, creating jobs and strengthening the middle class
And from Boehner's press secretary Brendan Buck:
This evening in the Roosevelt Room, the leaders laid out the House proposal to temporarily extend the debt limit, formally appoint budget negotiators, and begin immediate discussions over how to re-open the government. No final decisions were made; however, it was a useful and productive conversation. The President and leaders agreed that communication should continue throughout the night. House Republicans remain committed to good faith negotiations with the president, and we are pleased there was an opportunity to sit down and begin a constructive dialogue tonight.
There are some additional considerations now that as Bank of America accurately predicted, defunding Obamacare is not even close to being part of the negotiation (which was always the dealbreaker). From Stone McCarthy on the next steps:
- The House GOP proposed a six-week increase in the debt limit, which would expire on November 22. House Republicans want to permanently do away with the Treasury's ability to tap "extraordinary measures" to create headroom under the current debt limit.
- The House GOP wants the debt limit increase to be a precursor for bipartisan talks on a longer-term budget deal that tackles entitlements and tax reform. We don't know whether the two sides have to agree to any predetermined outcome for the committee as a condition for getting the debt limit increase. Based on earlier reports, it sounded like the size of any debt limit increase after November 22 would depend on the size of the deficit reduction package.
So if the committee doesn't produce a deal, and the Treasury can't use extraordinary measures, November 22 would be the new October 17.
- House Republicans don't seem to be addressing the government shutdown as this point. According to some accounts, ending the shutdown would depend on the negotiations of the new committee. That would probably be a non-starter for President Obama, and Senate Majority Leader Reid said he would not participate in budget negotiations while the government remains shut down.
- Senate Republicans are pursing their own strategy, proposing legislation that would fund the government at sequestration levels for a year, increase the debt limit for as long as the months, and repeal the medical device tax that is part of the Affordable Care Act.
Bottom line: in all the chaos, the GOP's will desperately try to salvage something out of this mess by saying that they at least got the president to "negotiate", while the democrats will get a reopened government, a debt ceiling extension, first temporary and then permanent, and a return to the Paul Ryan rhetorical masterpiece of an exercise (which as we said yesterday is the fallback mythical "Grand Bargain" plan to go back to a broad strokes negotiation that addresses and solves nothing) to fix the sinking ship that is the US welfare state, which will go very quickly absolutely nowhere.
All the while, simply because the Fed is monetizing the debt and thus enabling Congress to continue its profligate ways, thanks to ongoing low rates, absolutely nothing will change.
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Unstoppable force meet unmovable object.
When Bill Gross said that the odds of default are 1 in 1,000,000 I have a feeling he might have been off by a million or so.
...black swans.
all bs
continue thru the night, into daybreak, all thru breakfast, thru market open (just enough time to close out the shorts and set up the longs) and then somewhere in the 10am to noon trumpets are sounded from on high and the motherfucking cocksucking asslicking shitheads will do their thing, reap the profits and engage in a full fledged orgy of anal atrocities
How fitting, November 22, 2013. Hmmm, what was it that will have happened 50 years to the day prior to that, it is on the tip of my tongue, just can't remeber what it was. It was something worth noting I think.
Grassy Knoll?
+100
I'm using, "Grassy Knoll", in a sentance tomorrow.
Don't quote me if you don't spell sentence right.
A gaggle of whores attempting to regain some semblance of relevance.
An episode of Jersey Shore has more reality than this Potomac two-step crock of excrement.
Not one mention of Commie-'health care' in that whole article. Have peoples eyes already been diverted off the ball ? This was supposed to be about defunding the nation destroying O-care law. Remember ?
I picture them all doing keg stands and Jäger Bombs while taking turns playing Congress Shit Bingo.
...while the B for IS guys are doing shots of Goldschlagger.
This boondoggle has been hard to comprehend from the start. They had how long to do this and at the eleventh hour the Repubs came up with the plan to spend every last point of political capital that they have on this plan AND THEN they cave? A novelist who came up with this as a plot line would have the publisher send it back as unbelievable.
Its all theater, as 'real' as t.v. pro wrestling. "They" are all on the same side. The screw the public, NWO side.
With the general publics gnat length attention span, all the other stories drop off the radar - - - such as the 24/7 Nazi surveillance state, Benghazi, massive government/corporate corruption, and the crumbling economy
As far as the JFK conversation goes ;
Look up "Scot Free" from the movie, "Kentucky Fried Movie" for a laugh.
Between the debt limit deniers, the Bill of Rights violators, and the fact that all popular music has been shit since I can't remember.
Only a god could save us.
or a white whale
those '11' and '22' numbers are of import to the elites.
Is anyone asking, "why 6 weeks" and not any other number in the world???
Because IMO it appears, that's what in the sole best interest of every encumbent Politican on both sides of the field!! Six weeks gets us past the November elections and the thanksgiving break without ANY politician being incovienced, and puts us right back here before Christmas for another round of Groundhogs Day!!
Every single one of them should just be arrested at this point!
Uhh, election season is next year.
@ zerohead...Sounds like a party I had in the '90's
This whole thing could be solved with one well-placed missile strike.
Can someone please explain what is at issue here? Is this all just a 'show' before we carry on in our profligate ways? Genuinely puzzled.
Kabuki for the dumbasses.
Red Team dumbasses = authority worshippin, manly Big-Gov lovin', kick-ass daddy, old-testament, fascists.
Blue Team dumbasses = authority worshippin, girly Big-Gov lovin', smothering-mommy, new-testament, socialist.
The above two combinations account for 65 to 70% of the human brain configurations, world wide.
Politics is simply about creating believable-bullshit for your dumbasses and screwing them while they fight about nonsence.
Unfortunately, there are so many dumbasses that if only a handful of people don't vote, it could be even more disastrous.
Voting doesn't do anything, you morons can't seem to understand that.
The world is controlled by voting. There is voting at the FOMC, the UNSC, and countless other places. The number and frequency of votes that the sheeple are permitted to vote in is much more limited. MORE IMPORTANTLY, for the US- the votes that is was necessary to win (and the sheeple are permitted to cast ballots in) AS A PREREQUISITE to changing the system, have ALREADY occurred.
Saying voting doesn't "do anything" represents a pawn's eye view of the chessboard or an enlisted cannon fodder view of the battlefield. Further complicating the path to victory is the fact that winning a vote, and even an election, does not change the system, the winner has to actually work and CHANGE THE SYSTEM (which is a completely separate process)... a hard sell for the multiple generations of instant gratification seeking masses.
The Chinese also have a corrupt single party system replete with a few votes that the sheeple are allowed to partake in, yet the reform minded take a different view as the importance of voting... perhaps Americans really are dumber and more malleable than the other flavors of idiot masses, in which case Americans are ideally suited for enslavement.
Kablooie theater
ya, just like kablooie theater.
What is the lion of judah doing on your island's coat of arms? Repressed much?
Tell ya what Believer, NSA gets a good read on the pulse of actual thinkers out there in the wild when the captured (by psychotic and spoild heirs to vast fortunes) legistlature pulls stunts like this. Its time to unwind the petro dollar and the most armed population on Earth should be surveyed accordingly before the shocks hit the system.
The World Is A Business Mr. Beale.
Well there will be a big celebration after all the 'infighting' and we'll get screwed with Commie-'care' and theyll steal our money and try to take our freedom. Another step toward global neo-feudalism through so-called 'debt' (slavery).
And the clueless will be all excited about the 'next elections' - or other irrelevant b.s.
That about sums it up.
Why bother, everyone is doing an excellent job of spinning in circles all by themselves.
Anyone who thinks there is a plan needs to have thier head checked. Yeah - they serve the same master. No - they aren't in control. It's a clusterfuck... nothing less. The political jockeying will only continue...
From posts I made a couple years ago...
Financial crisis (theft) = soveriegn crisis = political crisis (public crisis) = currency crisis. You guys get the the idea that we are shifting now from a soveriegn crisis to a political crisis now. The phases are picking up speed. This will be a public crisis by 2016 at latest. Then the bottom drops out.
interesting thought centerline. gave me an interesting thought. they are jockeying to see who wins the most favor with the masters.
ladies and gentlemen, i think i had i bright idea. that's really what's going on. which of them is going to win the most favors with the masters?
because even though they know the masters orders, they still have to balance with getting re-elected by their beloved constiutents.
The creatures from jekyll island want to pile a ton more debt on, so this show aint over by a long shot. BTFATH.
Won't happen!! Boner will cave as usual and the cry.
"...Aides will continue the discussion through the night..." Don't worry, your elected officials will get a good nights sleep....
Aides will continue the discussion through the night while our elected officials are busy plying young boys with alcohol.
So they're going to work the grave shift, with the rest of us...yeah right..welcome to it, guys...make yourself at home...we take turns making the coffee...don't fall asleep.
I've never seen a bigger collection of fucking retards in my entire life. These people take imbecility to a whole new level.
"I've never seen a bigger collection of fucking retards in my entire life. These people take imbecility to a whole new level.
I see it every time I head out to do some shopping. Or visit my kids' school. Or coach baseball. Or visit certain family members.
Natural selection is only suspended temporarily.
Normal service will resume after WWIII.
isn't that a little harsh? I'd say these people are tremendous imbecile's.
"I've never seen a bigger collection of fucking retards in my entire life."
Who voted for them?
And as everybody here predicted... republicans are folding even if they hold the power... which means they always wanted this deal to begin with and it was just all a big show.
but why so soon? we still have 7 days of headline gridlock left.
Politico?
Why not have Debbie "Washerman" Schultz's opinion?
seriously, i did not down arrow you
Yes you did, I saw you. (I didn't down arrow you)
"Debbie "Washerman" Schultz"
No that's a joke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q0T39uysRI
Concert extraordinar - Taraf de Haidouks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLIU08doRRU
in shades t.waits
I have a negotiation proposal:
No increase to the ceiling for any reason. Any politician who disagrees is heartily encouraged to go eat a dick.
Get to work Mr. Yellen - let's start the party now! You know you want to.
Bullshit.
Oops, I leaked the meeting content early....
Why meet "all night" when the deadline is next week?? Sounds idiotic to me.
Why? To create the illusion that they are working hard to solve the problem.
I bet they have their sleeves rolled up, too. That's how you can tell they mean business and they're ordinary folk just like us.
ya, just like that.
Re: absolutely nothing will change
And everybody getting loot from Big-Ag, Big-MIC, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Energy, Big-Ed, Big-House, Big-Fin, Big-OldFart, Big-OldFartHealthcare, Big-AntiDrug, & Big-PoliceState are perfectly happy with that.
Show of hands of how many free-enterprise lovin' patriots are directly or indirectly living off of some crony-socialist scam?
(Git yer socialist hands off my Medicaid, I'm ENTITLED!!!)
Its a fair point.
How does one ethically argue with a complete progessive fascist when the state/corporate alliance has taken over everything including their own income, their means of independently supporting a family?
Apparently its not enough to just say its fascism and I oppose it.
Answer: start your own state directed company?
no kidding, this could have been the best brinksmanship ever and instead the republicans have made it the worst.
House Republicans want to permanently do away with the Treasury's ability to tap "extraordinary measures" to create headroom under the current debt limit.
That would be great... but no way they get it.
So if the committee doesn't produce a deal, and the Treasury can't use extraordinary measures, November 22 would be the new October 17.
Which means more volatility which means more money for congresscritters and their insider trading.
we all know how this shit works.
we will keep hearing how talks are going well and nothing to worry about, then tomm we will see another 115 dow points added and 10 s&p points added because '' investors'' do not want to go into a weekend short in case of a deal, and then right after the ''market'' closes friday, we will here how talks have broken off and there are no talks scheduled, and then sunday afternoon- evening, there will be a rumor of a deal to spike futures another 20 s&p handles, and so on.
this shit is way to easy to predict.
if the gop caves, then who the fuck will take them seriously come the nov 22nd deadline? if they cave now, they will always cave.
lloyd and jamie are doing 'god's work' and their bonus season is coming up soon. they really were brilliant in figuring out how to transfer anybody with a job's money and savings into their pockets. and at the same time, pay the millitary so their sorry arse's won't be handed to them. it took millenium for the sociopath's to change from simply taking your wealth via arms to sucking out of bank accounts. they really are brilliant. and i'm not being sarcastic.
and nobody is going to do a damn thing about it. and you can't even hedge it, which was kyle bass's real point yesterday. it's going to happen. we are going to get raped. everybody except lloyd and jamie and sweet old bastard warren.
bring on yellen. if 85B a month didn't work, then 100b a month will. and if that doesn't, then 115 b a month might. and if that doesn't, then.
taper is a joke. i once thought they would all go short and taper, but no. the hundreds of trillions in CDs can't allow it, because between jamie and lloyd is a deal, they can't really figure out who goes down, so they did actually compromise, because at that point the loser is the tax payer, not them.
Didn't you guys hear? Boehner just wanted a "conversation". Mission accomplished, we can all go home now.
How about some mood music?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUIQgEVDM4
Ha, I knew you would bring this one.
My preference would be 'To Hell And Back' - Venom
This is pure insanity. I hope the GOP is also talking about corporate intitlements. End corporate welfare?
No, just stuff that effects humans? The people suffer while corporations prosper?
Enough is enough...11/22/13, 50 Years from the day our Republic took a bullet. hmmmmmm
Boehner will cave like a Bart Chilton
ya, just like a bart Chilton.
Could be worse, Boehner could flop like Dick Armey
The point is, the Republicans were willing to fund everything except Obamacare. Obamacare still is on the table or the federal workers would be going back to work. The Republicans aren’t going to agree for the government to start up unless Obamacare is addressed.
Obamacare is still the elephant in the room. Reason: the American people don’t want it and the Republicans now have it in their power to stop it.
Repubs were reportedly even willing to concede a lot more than that, but that is not good enough for Dems to be willing to even negotiate with them, apparently. Now, who is really doing the extorting? Isn't the House supposed to [have some] control of the debt-limit and spending and not the Senate nor President [quite so much]; I know the "Congress" is the House and the Senate when referenced in the Constitution, but isn't there something in there about how new taxing and borrowing ("for raising Revenue") "shall originate" in the House? Has anyone read the US Constitution besides our "Constitutional-law-professor"-In-Chief, or is the US Constitution just thought to be such a living-and-breathing document that we don't enforce it anymore?
When did the new taxing [and presumed borrowing] in the [un]Affordable Care Act ever originate in the House?!!!! [Of course, 'according to the Supreme Court, that is. They were denied to be new taxes by their supporters all the way up until the Supreme Court appears to have re-characterized them as such.] But, when did it originate in the House?
Oh yeah, that's right. It never did, and they won't let that happen now, either!
<--- did read the fucktardery
<--- didn't read the fucktardery
^^^ honesty poll ^^^
Many many kudos, but down-arrowed as suggested.
I don't think negative numbers are possible.
They're just a way of measuring subtraction. Trust me. If you ever lose everything you have, you'll know what negative numbers are.
@ Buzzsaw99:
Didn't have to read the 'fucktardery'...if it came from Government mouthpieces, you can automatically assume it's 'fucktardery'...
In fact, I'm kind of surprised that the US Government doesn't have an agency officially called "The Bureau of Fucktardery"...but then again, it describes SO MANY agencies, I'm kind of hard-pressed to choose which one to start with first:
Maybe we should just rename them all:
1. The Supreme Council of Executive Fucktardery (White House)
2. The Council of 100 Fucktards (Senate)
3. The Group of Useless Fucktards (Congress)
4. The Bureau of Financial Fucktards (BLS, BEP, Treasury, etc.)
5. The Office of Legal Fucktards (Supreme Court)
6. Fucktards 'R' Us (The Fed)
7. The Agency of Busybody Fucktards (NSA, CIA, FBI)
SEE, WASHINGTON? You can simplify the government!
(I can't believe I actually used the 'word' "fucktard" 11 times in one post...but it just goes to show you, how well it describes them.)
<--- Have enjoyed the recent asshattery
<--- Have not enjoyed the recent asshattery
^^^ let it burn poll ^^^
We aren't going bankrupt on Oct 17 or Nov. 22. The US government still takes in $225 billion each month, The temper tantrum is about the fact that they can't spend $310 billion a month on $225 a month income.
The only question is - do they pay the interest on the debt and other essentials or do they use the money to buy votes from those on the government handouts?
Obama wants to keep buying votes. That's the issue.
Damn . . . and I was under the impression we were already bankrupt.
My mistake. We aren't going to have zero dollars to spend. The only problem is allocation. Yes, we are bankrupt. We cannot pay back what we have already borrowed.
We need Putin to negotiate for the GOP against Obama. Bohner lacks fortitude.
King Obama seems to be intimidated with Putin. Guess Obama realizes he's out classed with Putin.
Obama almost seems like a punk compared to Putin.
rumor has it that Boehner loves fluid situations.
Note to Boehner: drop the estrogen shots dispite how pretty and whiney they make you feel.
At some point the American People will do the math:
Government collects 250 billion a month.
Debt service is ~20 billion a month.
Once they see & absorb this simple math, they will
go bullshit.
Fuck You John Boehner and take that man you think is your whipping boy with you.
I'll take VP for Debt Ceiling Unlimited, Alex.
Obama has already given an obamacare exemtion to business...
-guess republicans won that round-
but Obama can't do that for individuals or he will be seen as weak - (hellooo???)
this is all bs on a scale never before seen in the history of humanity...
6 more weeks of "maybe America can function or maybe it can't" will be better than a default- why?
Because in an increasingly dysfunctional system more dysfunction is seen as more normality, and normality is bending over hard working taxpayers of whatever political persuasion.
They are probably sacrificing orphans for chairyodo's midnight inauguration.
Bill Cooper warned that after 9/11 the next false flag will be nuclear. They failed to get consensus to invade Syria, so now they need to create a reason.
For some reason, as I sit in bed ready to go to sleep, my ass is starting to pucker up.
Let the feral government stay shutdown. That's a cleaner solution than all of us having to secede.