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The Long Game Of Hiking The Debt Ceiling

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Lance Roberts of STA Wealth Management,


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Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:51 | 4048100 Flammonde
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“Still another danger is represented by those who, paying lip service to democracy and the common welfare, in their insatiable greed for money and the power which money gives, do not hesitate surreptitiously to evade the laws designed to safeguard the public from monopolistic extortion.

Their final objective toward which all their deceit is directed is to capture political power so that, using the power of the state and the power of the market simultaneously, they may keep the common man in eternal subjection.

They claim to be super-patriots, but they would destroy every liberty guaranteed by the Constitution.

They are patriotic in time of war because it is to their interest to be so, but in time of peace they follow power and the dollar wherever they may lead.” 
Henry A. Wallace

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:58 | 4048110 Dareconomics
Dareconomics's picture

The marginal GDP growth from debt increases have been diminishing throughout the last two decades.  Eventually, credit increases will stop raising GDP at all, see Japan. 



Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:59 | 4048196 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture



If the masses wanted hope, they sure better look for it somewhere else.  Both parties are at fault.  Thomas Sowell's recent article about legislative funding is accurate.


Right now, the fault of the shut down is on the Democrats.  But the whole debt problem is on both parties.  Change is coming.  It will be brutal and harsh.  History would suggest a world war of epic proportion.



Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:05 | 4048308 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

The next chart shows the current increases in Federal Debt and Real GDP beginning in 2008 and estimated through the end of 2013.

lol There's a case to be made on this issue, unfortunately Lance does not have the brain cells to put it together. 
Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:51 | 4048535 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture



"Each dollar in debt only increased GDP by roughly $0.15"


That looks about right.

Isn't the dollar really only worth about $0.15, give or take a few pennies?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 20:00 | 4048925 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Hey, multiplying by a fraction is technically still a "multiplier effect"

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:22 | 4048152 20-20 Hindsight
20-20 Hindsight's picture

Upvote, for sure... but, Christ, we've known this for so long now, so is something of significance ever going to happen?  What will it take?  Blow up the Fed?  The White House?  Both?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:28 | 4048161 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

It's started folks.

Hired Goon Squads appearing across the USSA.

Independence Hall, Philadelphia...


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:02 | 4048204 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Contracting is where it's at. Like lawyers, no matter what happens, win or lose, justice or atrocity, contractors get paid. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:28 | 4048472 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Jeez!  Are you RWR?  That vid only has 284 hits.  It should be on the nightly news.  Thanks for the link!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:56 | 4048385 acetinker
acetinker's picture

This from memory; Former LA governor Edwin Edwards in response to whether his remarks in a newspaper interview might jeopardize his re-election- "Darlin, my people don't read your paper.  The only way I'm gonna lose this election is if I get caught with a dead girl or a live boy."  He was right, of course.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:57 | 4048111 enloe creek
enloe creek's picture

The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.

- Carrol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 09:39 | 4049709 czardas
czardas's picture

I argue again that we are in a death spiral that occurs when all societies devolve in an orgy of debt and promises. Why would anyone want a third party? Would it call for a DECREASE in spending or preach low taxes or not promise to help the "working class" by offering more federal programs? No, it would call for a "balanced" approach that means more of the same with higher taxes.

If we have learned one thing it is that political solutions rarely work and simply electing a third party changes nothing. Besides, why would the 47% on the dole choose to end the gravy train? We will have to learn the hard way.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:01 | 4048118 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

We already have a rising third party. The D.C. crowd calls it  homegrown terror.........

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:11 | 4048127 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Core States


The implanted muppet regime must continue to protect the fleecing of the taxpayer funding to wet new State spending appetite’s.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:12 | 4048137 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Hiking the debt has been standard practice since Roosevelt. We came out of WWII as the biggest dog on the porch and we've had it our way for almost 70 years. Today, we are a culture in decline, ruined by the pursuit of empire.

"Do I believe in what we're doin'? In '66, maybe. But now, I figure we've been kickin' asses for so long, it's about time we got ours kicked."          Sgt. Elias in the film "Platoon"


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:21 | 4048150 Smiley
Smiley's picture

Irrelevant:  Any math having to do with real world applications of percentages and negative variables has been banned from public education for the good of the sheeple.

Just keep voting for more free shit yo!  Someone else will pick up the tab.  Party on Wayne!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:32 | 4048165 financial apoca...
financial apocalyptic contagion's picture

thsi fukin faggot has just rehashed old shit and wrote a shitty little article

man imho most come here for the tyler shit and just close this contributor crap

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:56 | 4048194 pods
pods's picture

But your last piece was breathtaking.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:37 | 4048170 Thurifer
Thurifer's picture

What you all don't understand is the the Tea Party are not conservatives...they are revolutionaries. Part of a revolution is tearing down the system you wish to replace. By holding the debt ceiling hostage they are placing themselves in the catbird seat. To quote Dune: " The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it."

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:44 | 4048178 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The power is to protect a US Republic. The power to recoin currency ouside 1913 debt obligation bagholders is the revolution. Do you understand?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:53 | 4048188 Thurifer
Thurifer's picture

If I understand you correctly, a default would take power away from the Fed and put it back in the hands of the Treasury (where it legitimately belongs). If so I agree, if I have misunderstood please clarify.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:19 | 4048227 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Yes.. also state side budget control.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 09:48 | 4049719 czardas
czardas's picture

A default would lead to starvation and death. Credit would instantly freeze, salaries would be unpaid, gas could not be bought and food trucks would stop. We were close to this situation last time but for a last minute deal. Our society, because it is so centralized, is fragile.

We should remember that the majority of folks were farmers in the last big depression, we had fewer people and worked much harder. No, I don't think debt is a path to prosperity. I don't know the solution. I do think many are not considering the devastating ramifications of a credit crunch.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:50 | 4048533 acetinker
acetinker's picture

You sound like a cop, or a judge.  The cop probably doesn't know why he's supposed to say "Do you understand?"  The judge knows, though.

To understand is to stand under- meaning you accept that the individual addressing you has authority over you.

So no, Atomizer, I do not understand.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:29 | 4048245 g'kar
g'kar's picture

It's revolutionary to want to follow the Constitution and control taxes and spending and bring back gold and silver coin as a tender in payment of debt? The Revolutionaries are in the white house.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 18:33 | 4048659 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

Yes it is revolutionary to attempt to do those things given the power structure that now exists.  That is Thurifer's point.

Rather than being a revolutionary, Obama is attempting to consolidate the slow fascist coup that has occurred over the last century.  Obama didn't start the ascendancy of Wall Street and crony capitalism.  Obama didn't start NSA's spying on all Americans.  Obama didn't start the policy of wars against anyone the US government dislikes.  Obama didn't start the policy of shipping high paying US jobs and knowhow to Asia.

Sure, all of those things have continued under Obama and maybe he is even more enthusiastic about them than some of his predecessors, but he is just taking a few further steps in a direction well established before he became president.  It didn't start with Obama -- and it won't stop after Obama.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:41 | 4048176 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Change was promised.  Change is wanted.  Change will happen.  Unfortunately, history shows that REAL change, politically and otherwise, has only occurred under the worst possible conditions.

And it can't come a bit too soon.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:57 | 4048287 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

In other words, change comes after pain. 


Change is Painful.

Change cannot happen until the pain of consistency exceeds the pain of change.



Only Nuns change habits overnight.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:05 | 4048211 OwnSilverPlayMusic
OwnSilverPlayMusic's picture

AFTER the goddamn election the American people want a third party.  What a bunch of impotent twits.  I was trying my hardest to get people to vote for Gary Johnson or write in Ron Paul most people couldn't even comprehend the thought.  Think about this: more people in America use meth than vote libertarian.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:15 | 4048225 Shigure
Shigure's picture

In the UK we have three main parties and they all operate to maintain the system, there is no difference.  What we need is a different system.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:26 | 4048240 malikai
malikai's picture

2, now that LibDems have suicided themselves.

Maybe UKIP will replace them. But it still won't change anything.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:00 | 4048386 Shigure
Shigure's picture

Yeah malikai, I take your point.

I think we have to give up on hoping that change will come from the top, change has to happen on an individual, personal level and we all have to take our own responsibility for it - before we are forced to.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:43 | 4048366 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

the Senate Democrats and the White House, are pushing for an elimination of the debt ceiling entirely

You betcha they gonna do it as soon as they have a majority in the house/senate.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:14 | 4048415 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

 Could I get a link to the "elimination of the debt ceiling" comment. Something not written by some right wing red meat blog preferably. Those are a dime a dozen.

The way the repubicans are blowing up it will happen the end of next year.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:03 | 4048393 spine001
spine001's picture

Can we ask Pepe Griggio to come to the USA?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 18:05 | 4048570 acetinker
acetinker's picture


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:28 | 4048469 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Do people still think this is theatre?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 18:01 | 4048564 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Yes.  If you think otherwise, care to 'splain why?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 18:52 | 4048725 RazvanM
RazvanM's picture

The US will soon need more countries in a dire need to be liberated. And soon enough it will need to find other planets for the same purpose.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 09:42 | 4049710 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

Change is inevitable. It is an illusion that tomorrow will be like today... it never is. The only real question is what are we changing into? Given the moral structure of society, nothing good I suspect.

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