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"No Deal" - Boehner Says Obama Rejects Proposals, Not Negotiating; Talks At An Impasse

Tyler Durden's picture


After a two-day, five hundred point Dow Jones rally on nothing but hope that just because politicians are talking, all shall be well, it was the weekend's turn, when the market is conveniently closed, for true Congressional colors to emerge. Sure enough, moments ago Boehner told GOP lawmakers that Obama has "rejected our deal", and that talks with the president have hit an impasse. The WSJ, whose recent poll in conjunction with NBC found Republican approval rating at an all time low (because if the debt ceiling slams shut, the machinery that funds both the "wealth effect" for the 0.01% and the 60 million on foodstamps and disability will cease: or in other words a bust for the ultra wealthy and poor, if not quite so bad for what's left of the middle class) reports that his comments, in a closed-door meeting with House Republicans, put renewed focus on a plan being developed by Senate Republicans to raise the U.S. debt ceiling and fully reopen the government. As we speculated, Obama, smelling blood, has decided to shut down the GOP on all their demands: "On Saturday, a House GOP aide said Mr. Obama had essentially rejected everything offered by House Republican leaders in their proposal." Which is hardly a negotiation. The question is will the GOP, having pushed the limit so far, decide to back off now, and let Obama take all the spoils?

As also reported previously, house lawmakers portrayed their talks with the White House more negatively than the picture that had emerged on Friday, after Mr. Obama phoned Mr. Boehner to discuss a proposal that House Republicans presented late Thursday. The White House said Mr. Obama had "concerns'' about the plan but that the two sides had agreed to keep talking.

Mr. Boehner told GOP lawmakers he was now waiting for Mr. Obama to re-engage with the House leadership, said Rep. Richard Hudson (R., N.C.). "The president will have to come to the table with something,'' said Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R., Ill.). "All eyes are now on the Senate. The question is what will Senate Republicans do.''

WaPo adds:

House Republicans were told by Speaker John Boehner Saturday morning that negotiations between the House GOP and President Obama have ended, with Obama’s rejection Friday of the House’s latest offer.


At a closed door meeting in the basement of the Capitol, Boehner urged members to hold firm, several said, even as Senate Republicans work to negotiate their own proposal to end the impasse.


House members expressed anxiety about the Senate talks. House Budget Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wisconsin) said House leaders were only briefed on a proposal being circulated by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) on Saturday morning and were opposed to it. He said the reasons for opposition were too many to enumerate.


Admitting it’s not optimal, Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) said Saturday that “all eyes are now on the Senate” this morning as the House waits to see how the upper chamber votes on a bill to fund the government.


Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho) sounded a frustrated note as he left a GOP conference meeting.


“The president rejected our deal,” Labrador said.


“It’s all good. It’s now up to the Senate republicans to stand up,” the Idaho republican added.

While in the Senate the prevailing GOP sentiment is one of folding to Obama as well, Darrell Issa moments ago noted that Obama has rejected the Seante GOP offer as well, which he said "contains real reform", instead pushing merely for higher taxes.

So while Obama seems dead set on getting his way or the highway, all the momentum for late last week appears to have stalled, perhaps direcly as a result of the massive ramp in the stock market which once again may have come too early, taking away all the pressure from the negotiation, which now appears set to repeat the tried and true pattern of yet another market plunge whose only goal is to force the negotiators to sign in the 11th hour.

And speaking of 11th hour, it may just be revisited, since as Bloomberg reported, after today there are no votes scheduled until 6:30 pm on Monday, roughly two days before the first X-Date.

More from Bloomberg:

  • Rep. Bill Flores, R-Texas, says Obama is “not talking to us” and “is trying to talk to the Senate Republicans
  • Rep. Randy Hultgren, R-Ill., says he knows of no plans by leadership to seek a vote on increasing debt ceiling for six weeks
  • Rep. John Fleming, R-La., says “we’re getting a bait and switch strategy from the White House;” next step is for House members to keep passing clean piecemeal bills to open govt
  • After today, House isn’t planning any votes until Monday around 6:30pm, says Rep. Trey Radel, R-Fla.

In short: anyone who thought the debt ceiling tragicomedy was over, is very much mistaken. And just to make sure of that, here is Harry Reid:


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Sat, 10/12/2013 - 10:57 | 4047591 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

The idea that Obama wants collapse is becoming more plausible.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 10:58 | 4047593 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

History is very clear on where this goes next.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:04 | 4047604 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Is this the hope and change part?


I'm more hopeful every single day we go without a deal. I can go without most of that crap.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047618 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

They have 5 more days to play out the soap opera. The end game is fixed. WWF style.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:11 | 4047634 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

I refuse to hold discussions with either perpetrator of this dramatic con.

(Dive, Dive, Dive!)

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:27 | 4047695 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Central Bankers' Collapse This Bitch list  


North Korea


Government Shutdown

Debt Ceiling

Obamacare  <--- We really like this one.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:45 | 4047753 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Obama's little temper tantrum Hollywood style

Watch all the way to the end and you'll see what I mean, just like a little girl who didn't get her way.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:46 | 4047761 Call me Ishmael
Call me Ishmael's picture

The republicans started to buckle Thursday. Why wouldn't Obama wait for them to completely collapse?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:09 | 4047990 remain calm
remain calm's picture

Its better for my kids to default now than later. Lets just push the reset button now and start over.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:20 | 4048025 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

No silver or gold purchases this weekend, just brass and lead.  Time to make a final push on the long term food storage, too.

Dictatorship and martial law (emergency powers act) and a whole string of excutive orders will kick in.  Lock and load.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:37 | 4048066 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Seems like their going to shut down all countries that use Dollars and impose Martial Law globally.

I'm sure our Military has just enough gas left to do that.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:13 | 4048141 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Just as a little "man on the street" confirmation for ZH'ers: 

Today, I went food shopping at the local Amish grocery store. At the checkout, the girl asked me how I was planning to pay, as I was unloading my cart. I told her "cash, but out of curiosity, why do you ask?". (They never ask anything like that). She replied "The EBT system is down, and we can't accept foodstamp payments from customers; it's apparently a nationwide problem". 



Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:09 | 4048214 Clever Name
Clever Name's picture



"Several news media reports say the Electronic Benefits Transfer system – which allows low-income people to spend their Supplemental Nutrition Assistant Program benefits with payment cards – was not working in Michigan and Virginia as well.

The cause of the problem is unknown. State and federal officials could not be reached for comment Saturday afternoon."



It will be readily apparent if this lasts more than a day or two...



Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:46 | 4048372 1C3-N1N3
1C3-N1N3's picture

Corner store here in IL has a sign on the door: Link (EBT) not working until further notice.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:01 | 4048388 noless
noless's picture

From the articles i found the states reporting failure in the ebt system all have substantial black populations..

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 19:45 | 4048888 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

No matter how the media spins this.

The "default" would be on the dems watch.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:14 | 4048220 rabbitusvomitus
rabbitusvomitus's picture

So.... that's bullish right? 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:37 | 4048357 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Why even ask anymore.  Of course it's bullish.  EVERYTHING is bullish.  Oh LOOk !!!....ARMAGEDDON is coming.  Well....that'll be great for home builders and pension funds since a lot of retirees and the states they live in are now destroyed......but we need to rebuild.

WIN-WIN can't spell BULLISH without B U L L S H I  (T)

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:42 | 4048081 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Perhaps Fedbuster but think of mentally ill disabled and those on food stamps getting cut off. Thats why bullets to defend against violent crime such as home invastion will be needed for.

Dependent people do not revolt when empire collapses they rob their neighbor so the jungle will be very dangerous for awhile. Those 1.6 billion bullet purchase from DHS will be used for looters. It is going to be an ugly and sad scene, a shame those that dont learn from history are FILL IN BLANK

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:45 | 4048090 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

When the empire collapses, it will be pure hell on earth people, prepare accordingly.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:39 | 4048349 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

True that.  These central planners always don't account for an unforseen event or a straight timing fuck up.  I think they will fold at the last minute and kick than can down the road. But you never know.

On a personal note, wish I had those Troy back up sights already but the Magpul's will just have to do.

Will accept nothing less than Flat Dark Earth (HK front) - call me fussy.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:18 | 4048441 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Yep, the holographic sights batteries may not always be available. Just picked up fixed sights, just in case.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 18:06 | 4048573 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Sound, folks go over the top with too much glass, holographic's and red dot's.  No issue they are great tools but I always believe you should be competant with irons.  Invest in a quality pair of BUS's and train accordingly, the ARs where designed for them and they are still IMHO the core sighting system.  The Trijicoms and Aimpoints are just gravy.

Good luck brother and increase your odds.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:50 | 4048102 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

On the first of October the disability checks didn't come in the mail for those whom recieve a hard check.  My friend who works at the Post Office said some of them were going crazy.  One guy was yelling "where is my fucking check, it's never been late?"  His check finally came on the third along with several others.  These same people get some of their meds delivered through the mail, too.  You are right about one thing, when the checks and meds stop coming, the Free Shit Army is going to go nuts.  

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:51 | 4048285 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

When revolutions happen, it is usually the Colonels that come out on top.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:12 | 4048004 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Indeed, with the likes of our Fraud-In-Chief and Dirty Hairy, who needs enemies?  They have their little plan for our TRANSFORMATION, and this will put a monkey wrench in it.  I say shut the  thing down and see where we all really stand, then we can settle it man0-y-mano, yes?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:59 | 4047806 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

keywords : elaborate staged prank


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:21 | 4048032 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

tip e canoe and Tyler too....

I wonder how TPTB would feel if the tide turns en masse?  We have five days left and they will more than likely agree of some other CR to fund the govt, they would never risk a default, unless that is part of the plan and Kabuki Theatre??

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:29 | 4048162 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Tip and Ty
What's the cause of this commotion, motion, motion,
Our country through?
It is the ball a-rolling on

For Tippecanoe and Tyler too.
For Tippecanoe and Tyler too.
And with them we'll beat little Van, Van, Van,
Van is a used up man.
And with them we'll beat little Van.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:29 | 4047701 French Frog
French Frog's picture

"Will the GOP, having pushed the country so far, decide to back off now, and let Obama take all the spoils?"

Right wing pussies always back off in the end

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:35 | 4047718 max2205
max2205's picture

Boener caves...loses....and still loses...what a fucking he can't even take credit for blaming this all on Barry...


Boener...please kill yourself

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:08 | 4048132 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Yes, less nuts and bolts, more hot rhetoric! That'll clear things up. Stop apologizing for the fact that the conservative base spends more time talking out their ass about politics than actually understanding its underlying mechanics, Mr. Sowell.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:47 | 4048281 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Now THAT is funny. What fucking "underlying mechanics" would those be?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:58 | 4048295 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

GM, you post here so often, may I ask why?  The Huff N Puff Compost awaits you!  You still taking that blue pill??? ROFLMAO

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 20:47 | 4049055 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

This omnishambles, or keynsian cluster fuck, we are ALL living through is manifesting into an internal hemorrhage in what is left of GM's rather small brain.

He's just reacting, via senseless posting on the Hedge, to reinforce his cognitive dissonance.

Apart from that he's still and always will be a right cunt until the final showdown.

Lock 'n load Abi

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 09:53 | 4049723 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I am that my me ready Freddy!!!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:35 | 4050567 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Abi abides.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:08 | 4048125 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

At least WaPo sees the humor in Speaker Soggy Biscuit's B.S. (Hopefully Bezos also has a sense of humor).

"At a closed door meeting in the basement of the Capitol, Boehner urged members to hold firm,"

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:40 | 4047749 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



"(RINO) pussies always back off in the end."

There; fixed that for ya

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:48 | 4047949 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

I see what you did there. "Fixed that for ya". How very clever. And fresh, too. Did you come up with that all by yourself? Fixed it for ya. Rather than coming up with your own statement, you've made a minor change to someone else's post and "fixed it". So fresh and original. Very clever.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:09 | 4047992 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> Fixed it for ya.

That fucking term has been so overdone it gives me dry heaves every time I see it used, which is all the time.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:17 | 4048017 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Sounds like you need a tampon...

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:39 | 4048173 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> you need a tampon.

That's what I'm talking about, something new, and fresh, and funny.  Not some old stale shit that's been making the rounds for years.  Kudos to you for coming up with something original.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:28 | 4048241 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Needs a straw.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:27 | 4048045 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

LOL, it is a bit overdone, and I am guilty of doing it, sue me?!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:09 | 4048398 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

LOL Looks like a lot of people like the "fixed it" gimmick, judging by the down arrows. Oh well, just a pet peeve of mine, along the same lines as "don't go there" and "been there, done that". I prefer someone who can actually articulate their own idea rather than take the shine off someone else's comment, but I guess that's just me a few others. No worries, though, my toes are still tappin'.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:08 | 4048212 Abaco
Abaco's picture

It is truly amazing since they have all the leverage. Nothing can get down without House approval since all appropriations must originate there. If Boehner had a brain he would send up bills funding whatever they want to fund, exclusing shit like ObamaCare and Public Broadcasting, and go. Send a big fuck you to Obama and Reid. So what if they continue the 17% shutdown.  Cutting back governmetn is what their consitutents want.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:56 | 4048293 cnmcdee
cnmcdee's picture

Looks like EBT cards are down Nation Wide, want to see crime shoot up like through the roof overnight - just keep that system turned off for another week.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:31 | 4047692 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

WWF style is an excellent analogy.

A thoroughly choreographed contest, with a predetermined outcome.
Each player remunerated by the same company, and behind the curtain they are all pals.

What a farce!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:37 | 4047723 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I'd respect them a lot more if they'd beat each other with folding chairs.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:45 | 4047766 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

A bodyslam across the Lincoln Desk maybe?


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:10 | 4047841 General Decline
General Decline's picture

I roll out the WWF analogy frequently when friends and coworkers are having rep vs dem debates. When I try to explain to them that they play for the same team, I get a lot of dumbfounded bewildered looks.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:24 | 4047872 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Just have them watch a Rowdy Roddy Peiper film.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:35 | 4047903 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

you guys are showing ur is wwe.....wwf is a save the fucking planet organization that won the initials thru the courts and vince had to change his letters...

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:26 | 4048040 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Guilty as charged.
I'm old enough to remember The Great Malinko, Johnny Valentine and Jack Briscoe at the Dinner Key Auditorium in Miami, circa 1967.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:35 | 4048257 Clever Name
Clever Name's picture

Whoa there gramps!

And I was gonna break out the Iron Sheik vs Sgt. Slaughter in the 80's!


*Bows to learned master*

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:32 | 4048348 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Ah, c'mon you guys let's get real with Kurt and Erik Von Stroheim. Eddie Graham, Dusty Rhodes and Haystacks Calhoun. How 'bout Joe Scarpa and his sleeper hold?

I can go way back if you want.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:15 | 4048419 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Wahoo McDaniel, Jay Youngblood, Ric "Nature Boy" Flair and of course Rufus R. "Freight Train" Jones.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:44 | 4048514 new guy
new guy's picture

Are any of you punks old enough to remember "Cry Baby Harold Smith"

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:33 | 4048354 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Gramps? That's a first for me.
Look you young whippersnapper, I would put you in a figure four leg lock if my hip wasn't acting up.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:28 | 4048042 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Double post. My bad.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:15 | 4048224 rabbitusvomitus
rabbitusvomitus's picture

or at least throw shoes at each other....

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:16 | 4047832 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

which is why Jesse The Body 2016 is beginning to make perfect sense in me mind.  now all we would need is to replace Piers JPMorgan with Mean Gene Okerlund and the bullshit would finally flush down the toilet, old-school style.

No Guts, No Glory

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:00 | 4048203 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Right, AlaricBalth.

Watch, on Monday or Tuesday they'll be 'talking' again...


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:41 | 4047743 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

lets see, 500 up points in 2 days, and now we'll get a 150 point down day, netting a 350 positive...still not bad

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:24 | 4047875 Jacque Itch
Jacque Itch's picture

October is the perfect time for a crash.



1929, 1987 and 2008

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:40 | 4048083 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture


Monday? No, it's a buying opportunity. Fresh injection of hopium Sunday night probable. Besides, the next stock crash and bond armegeddon are already priced in. Stay calm and buy buy buy.



Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:14 | 4047645 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I´m expecting another gold takedown to happen around 3AM EST Monday morning.  They will go for broke and try to smash the price below $1000 before December hoping for mass capitulation.  It´s all they can do to save the COMEX from blowing up come December.

The last of the phyzz will then disappear.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:27 | 4047676 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

And because predicting the timing is so difficult, it is best (and has been) to buy your gold when you can and when you can afford it.  Do not try and time it it.  Just buy as you have money and until you have "enough".

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:34 | 4047722 French Frog
French Frog's picture

Can you explain to me why you think that COMEX is more likely to blow up now with Gold at $1270 rather than when it was at $1900+ ?

A lot of shorts are sitting on $600/33% profit from the highs: no need to cover at all.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:59 | 4047804 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

again "only lunatics short gold." we appear to have gone from "How the Cold War was Won" to "How the West was Won." we're actually getting attack ads relative to this now. I really don't understand that actually. amazingly the ads are completely false as well. I just don't get it. who are the anarchists again?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:16 | 4048012 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

GLD is not Gold. GLD are zeros and ones. Basically weightless, invisible.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:41 | 4047921 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

This is the problem.

The gold is leaving the COMEX.  Paper contracts are deliverable and there are a lot standing for Dec.  That is what he is talking about.  The COMEX's gold backed paper is experiencing a run just like an old bank got a run on their gold backed money when they issued too much of it.  Will the COMEX blow in December?  I don't know.  But clearly the system is under heavy strain as the market tells it the gold price was manhandled far too low.

It will work itself out in the end. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:32 | 4048062 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Oh yes, mother of Romulus and Remus, what you say makes perfect sense, thanks for the link.  My question is how will it end, you say it will work out, just how?

Crash to 1930 levels or some %, or go through the roof?  I say the latter, no?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:52 | 4048288 seek
seek's picture

COMEX going bust kills a large chunk of the paper market. Without paper, it's much harder to manipulate gold prices downwards.

It will also reveal that there's a shortage of physical (after all, if there weren't, COMEX wouldn't go bust.)

Within a week or two of a hard COMEX default I'd expect a moonshot-type rise. $2500 is a given (shit, we got within $600 of that with a paper market), and $5K isn't out of the question. While the probabilities are very small, with the amount of cash sloshing around the system, we could see some crazy 6 sigma event as well (moving into 5 figures) if the stars aligned right.

My guess is the default will be hyper-managed to look like a much softer event than it really is to lessen the impact.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:05 | 4048305 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

When all you sell is paper, it's hard to default. There is no shortage of trees.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:22 | 4048331 seek
seek's picture

When you have zero physical backing the paper up, it only takes one delivery notice to expose the lie. Failure to deliver kills COMEX.

Though COMEX can defer its death somewhat with paper payouts, once word gets out that you get free profit for asking for delivery, it's over..

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 17:34 | 4048494 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I used to believe that too. Under that idea they "defaulted" years ago. 

COMEX is immune to default because contracts allow them to settle in cash if need be. And then "delivery" is to a JPM vault you cannot see. You then request delivery from that vault, and new paper games and cash settlements start. They pay off in cash if need be.

There will be no real, offical, announced default, ever, on COMEX. The whole system is BS, and until it completely fails you won't see your moonshot. Oh, it will come. Just not through a COMEX default.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:51 | 4047951 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Do you think that the COMEX, come December (the biggest delivery month of the year), can deliver 15+ tons of physical gold at current inventory levels? 

The weak hands have been long shaken out.  As a result, there is massive desperation behind the scenes.  Gold must be attacked (and it has been ever since QE to infinity came into effect), and so it was yesterday.

Who in their right mind would dump 62 TONS of gold inside of 3 MINUTES?  Who even has that amount to dump without having to worry about price or even the consequences of such reckless trading?  Someone who is merely short and looking to cash in would almost never do such a thing unless the Great Reset was actually happening. 

No, whoever does this does not fear regulators.  They don´t care about profit lost on gold transactions.  They care about maintaining STATUS QUO.  They care about maintaining the dollar as the reserve currency, and they will do anything to preserve that status.  They can´t afford to have the COMEX default and a black swan event happen, although it looks to be inevitable.

They can only be the FED.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:01 | 4047977 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

This is US gov't slamming gold, knowing full well that the BRIC's are stocking up on it.  Currency wars - although, Benocide doesn't acknowldege 4,000 years of currency, so let's just call it "tradition wars".


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:36 | 4048069 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Damn fine hypothesis and analysis 8ball, I'd say you hit it on the head.  So Ft Knox is not empty after all???  LOL

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:03 | 4048122 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Ask the Germans.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:44 | 4048177 The Burning Planet
The Burning Planet's picture

Never knew anyone who owned gold to complain about gold prices. My barber has owned gold since 1980 and I haven't heard him talk about the COMEX in years and even that was in passing. In contrast, the people who bitch up a storm are the speculators, and I suspect you fall into the latter camp. Junk me. Go ahead. I have had to endure your shit and gold rants of those like you for years so I think I am entitled to a little rant of my own. Can't handle 100 point swings? Then don't buy it. Invest in Apple. You'll be happier. And we won't have to endure your conspiratorial bitch fests every time Au moves 50 points. Thank you.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 05:03 | 4049553 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

On the contrary Planet, I did a Mike Maloney back in 2008 and converted all my paper into phyzz. I have converted all excess paper to phyzz ever since...regardless of the fiat price. What gets me is the blatent manipulations within the PM markets, which are utterly ignored by our tax supported regulators, and are designed to frighten people away from obtaining hard assets and protecting themselves.

I stack phyzz not because it may jump to an astronomical price in fiat dollars one day (although I am sure there are more than a few stackers who hope for this), I stack because I want to be able to endure the Great Reset with as little pain as possible.

No one knows how long it will take until the world settles upon a new reserve currency, after the dollar implodes under the weight of hundreds of trillions in debt and unfunded liabilities, and the worldwide derivatives market is unwound. I may not have enough to make it all the way through, but if I do have some left, it will be with this seed money that new investments can be made.

Human history will again repeat itself, with yet another paper reserve currency going up in smoke, only to be replaced with something else of similar texture...most likely with a gold backed renminbi.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 05:18 | 4049555 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

This small chart about the history of world reserve currencies says it all. The dollar is by no means an exception to the rule, especially considering the shape it is in...and the increasingly eroding confidence it posesses.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 21:13 | 4049123 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Or the ESF (same difference!)

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:40 | 4047750 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

i hope not, i'm stilling looking to do some more conversion in the 800-1000 price point..i can only own sort of hopium

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:18 | 4047664 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

"No Deal" would be very instructive.  Just how much of the government do we need?  Each day I see the sun keeps coming up...

Closing the National Parks, for example, is wrong anyway.  Those are our parks, not owned by Obama or .gov.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:38 | 4047739 PacOps
PacOps's picture

Looks like he missed the memo on that one ... and many others. *Sigh* there's always that 10% that never get the word. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:45 | 4047758 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I never asked for more government.  But I seem to be getting more and more of it in my life, with each passing year, whether I like it or not. 

"Each day I see the sun keeps coming up..."  The way things are heading, they will be slapping a tax on that as well.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:56 | 4047801 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Nobody needs government, except the rulers themselves and their henchmen.

Unfortunately, because it marginally promoted survival in our ancestral past, people want it. Now, it's counter-productive to survival.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:20 | 4047674 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

500 points in two days, I wonder who shorted that run with every penny they had???

Still some time left for another million dollar rape job by staffers and politicians!!! It's almost too easy now, is what they have to be saying as they laugh and withdraw their money from the brokerage accounts!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:15 | 4048147 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Boner, should get on National TV Prime time slot, and say the GOP has tried everything (except give Obama the keys to everything), and say we're finished negotiating with this guy, as it's become patently obvious he has ZERO intent, on wanting to negotiate, PERIOD.

Thank You,we are sorry, and Good Night.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:05 | 4047607 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture


But seriously, if the strategy is to never let a crisis go to waste, you have to wonder what Obama plans to gain from causing a crisis. He obviously thinks he has enough public opinion on his side that he can pin all the blame on his "opposition," but is this really all about politics, or is something else going on?

Whatever, this shit's embarrassing, so I'm still fake-Canadian, eh.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:07 | 4047616 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

+100... he obviously doesn't give a piss about Joe Sixpack.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:14 | 4047647 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I accidentally watched the first ten minutes of NBC Nightly News yesterday, and it was full-on propaganda about how the shutdown is destroying Americans' lives. I mean it was way over-the-top. I was waiting for a parade of dead baby footage like with the Syria thing.

But all I kept thinking was that every single item that was supposedly causing hardship was something that Republicans had offered to fund. Don't get me wrong, I hate Republicans, but it was completely obvious how that fact was omitted. Obama wants the shutdown to hurt. He's being downright malicious about it, hoping to cause as much pain as possible, and the media are totally in on the plan.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:27 | 4047698 PacOps
PacOps's picture

Such a petty, distasteful little man who only by his strange entry into the flow of time coupled with some accidents in history was elected. It has happened before with disastarous results.

But then, I'm preachin' to the choir so I won't continue. Good luck to one and all - we're gonna need it.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:39 | 4047736 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Almost everything he does is politically calculated, and he's more extreme with his leftist views than those terrorist Tea Party members. Though, the tea party is more a "way of thinking," than anything.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:23 | 4048031 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

This entire charade is about getting all
Americans into FEMA camps.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:03 | 4048304 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

There is nothing "accidental" about Barry Soetero. Like any good post turtle, he didn't get where he is by doing a single thing by himself. He was put in place by people who have been working with him for over 30 years. And he plays the part beautifully. A real nasty piece of work

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:39 | 4047734 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Well, being as a lot of generals are getting fired lately ...

... maybe there are some better "Obama approved" types waiting in the wings to fill their spots.

I have half a mind that they will go past the deadline on purpose and essentially try to do a controlled demolition of the economy. If they don't do it on Obama's schedule, Mr. Market will do it on Mr. Market's schedule and it will be an unforseeable and uncontrollable crisis.

Just imagine if they *could* stop sending any checks they wanted to, but being as CONgress is in the back pocket, could turn them back on in a relatively short period of time. This means they could stop sending SS checks, EBT, whatever. That is going to herd all the sheeple where they want the sheeple to go. If things get messy, they can declare martial law with all their new generals. If things go wrong, they can back out and turn the checks back on, but if they are making progress with whatever agenda they got, they press forward and keep gaming it.

I don't know what to think of this shit show anymore. Everything is so fucking upside down crazy I just go outside.



Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:46 | 4047763 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

I hadn't heard anything about those generals until yesterday, and it totally spiked the needle on my "oh shit detector."

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:04 | 4047819 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

We will use the 'old generals' to help us out if TSHTF.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:20 | 4047858 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

I think maybe the "old generals" will use us if TSHTF to be more exact.

Many GI's will be looking for leadership disassociated from the regime and the "old generals" will channel all the muscle more effectively.

Just my hope at this point...


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:34 | 4047907 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:23 | 4048036 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

All those released generals are first on the hit list..  Night of the long knives anyone..

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:58 | 4048297 seek
seek's picture

I doubt they'll go down without a fight. It's going to be hard to explain dozens of dead federales spread across the country all on the same day, it'd be an instant trigger that the game is on.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:29 | 4048054 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Those fired generals probably weren't willing to pull off the nuclear false flag in the US/Israel that will be rquired to start WWIII.

Maybe the NSA was unable to find or plant enough scandalous material on their computers to blackmail them.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:15 | 4048142 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That's why why they got rid of Don't Ask Don't Tell, Obama needed full-blown brass cocksuckers...

Fortunately, a US general's cock sucking ability would appear to be inversely correlated to his war fighting skill and experience.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:25 | 4048239 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Those fired generals probably weren't willing to pull off the nuclear false flag in the US/Israel that will be rquired to start WWIII.

Maybe the NSA was unable to find or plant enough scandalous material on their computers to blackmail them.


Different take, I think the reason is they were asked of they would order troops, and other lower rank officers to shoot Americans.Say yes,stay,NO, go.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:21 | 4048030 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> the 'old generals' to help us out if TSHTF.

So some of the pigs at the hog trough are ok then?  Just what we need, the MIC to save us from the MIC.  Maybe after that we can get the bankers to save us from the bankers.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:25 | 4048236 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

I understand your point, however at this juncture it would seem that a more constitutionally minded "old general" would be preferable to a sycophantic socialist minded "old general", eh?

Who better to fight the MIC and its facist leadership, than the purged neocon MIC who know the system inside out.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:27 | 4047885 cossack55
cossack55's picture

So you missed the whole shipping nukes from Dyess to S.C. and the L. Graham nuke Charleston harbor thingy.  It seems the generals got canned the same day (3 Sept)

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 16:37 | 4048361 Element
Element's picture



Well, being as a lot of generals are getting fired lately.

All part of the Pentagon putting a broom through strategic nuclear forces, ever since they realized Putin's Russia is now a player and the US is increasingly on almost everyone's shitlist (especially since Snowden bugged-out to vladville).

i.e. the result of a strategic threat re-assessment and higher alert/readiness levels, so they're getting rid of commanders and lower ranks that are not mechanically and mentally reliable, as red-button-pushers.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:49 | 4047774 Pareto
Pareto's picture

yup. its what narcissistic ass hats do.  They don't give a fiddlers fuck what they do to other people.  As Proudhon said "that is government, that is its justice, that is its morality."  And how do we get here?  Democracy - where 50% +1 hold a gun to the heads of the other 49%.  Fuck its a beautiful thing.  The Republic (the Constitution - only the greatest document ever written that set out to define the scope and limits of government and a least cost means of organizing and protecting productive people) is tossed and in exchange, we get Harry Reid, Paul Krugman, NDAA, Patriot, DHS, EPA, and 50 million Americans on food stamps - because what you might want to do with your life isn't in the public interest - and because what you think, doesn't fucking matter.

What pisses me off most, is how naiive I was to believe that you could actually effect productive change if only the right person was to assume office of POTUS - how the handful of idiots currently running the show claim to know more about whats best for me than they ever did before.  Holy fuck, how retarded was I.  I envision a moment where the country - in its rebirth through destruction and chaos - we see a soldier tramping through the rubble remains of the WH climb on a ladder and pound a large durable copy of the Amendments into the wall while willing to shoot anybody who threatens to take it down.  Fuck anybody who ever again who threatens to dismantle the tenets of liberty - "bailiff.  have this man taken behind the courthouse and shot."

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:03 | 4047813 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

It would be just like the MSM to show footage from NAZI death camps and claim it is video of dead bodies in Kansas or someplace who died becasue the Gay Muslim did not get his way.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:42 | 4048082 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Very true McMolotov...I am a TEA partier.  Don't hate me bro!!  I want the same shit you and everyone here wants - LESS FUCKING GOVT telling us what to do!

CUT the fucking spending across the board, bring back productive industries and the jobs will follow, which means abolishing the Fed and IRS...flat tax!

This whole thing is fixable, except the Fabians and Globalists want TOTAL control, mutherfuckers!!

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:09 | 4047626 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

 Not sure I see a crisis. He has the republicans bent over now so he just donkey punched them for fun. What you are watching is the end of one of the fake parties. That's all. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:18 | 4047662 Landrew
Landrew's picture

We might be seeing both sides on the same side and WE the people are the losers. They do love the drama.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:22 | 4047681 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

All I know is this back and forth crap has to be making someone some serious money.

And you might be right about the political theater aspect of it, but if we do actually default, it will be intentional. Nothing happens by accident in politics.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:25 | 4047882 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

What is the best way to shake out debt in a Limited Partnership or other investment?

Bankruptcy or Default.

What would the big play be for TPTB to shake off all of this foreign debt?

Default which leads to social disruption which leads to full scale chaos.

Martial Law can then be declared, all the blame is placed squarely on the right and Tea Party, hence outlawing them becomes agreeable to the sheeple.

Now it becomes easier to take the guns, the retirement plans and anything else that is expedient and furthers the NWO takeover.

Just my random musings...


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:27 | 4047693 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

The Democrats without Republicans would be like Batman without Robin or the Joker without Harley Quinn or Hitler without Himmler. They complete each other.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:34 | 4047717 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

More likely this is about both Democrats and Republicans trying to get rid of the Tea Party.

Whether blame gets pinned on the Tea Party or if Tea Party supporters get so alienated by Republicans that they completely leave the Republican party for good, the end result will be even more power concentrated in the fake two party system.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:01 | 4047976 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I would say this is just as much the end of the Democrats as it is the Republicans. Let's say Obama gets his way and the spending/deficit spree continues. It might work if the U.S. was the only country on Earth, but it is not. The rest of the world that matters - China, Russia, Japan, etc. - is already at the end of the rope when it comes to the U.S. exporting our deficit spending and endless Q.E. as inflation to the rest of the world. The only thing keeping them from acting was the slim hope of some budgetary restraint coming from this shutdown. If that collapses and Obama wins and it's off to the races again, the rest of the world that matters will act in response. I expect a full-on U.S. economic collapse within 1-3 years, and despite the MSM the Democrats will take the full blame. End of the Democratic party.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:13 | 4047638 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Great question, I have asked the same thing, what IS REALLY going on? Some thoughts I have asked myself and friends. 1. Are we indeed at the max of credit allowed the U.S. by the rest of the world? 2. Have we been told the dollar now has a finite lifetime as the WORLDS currency? 3. As my first choice the American banking system has collapsed on the last drive for inflation to wash away the overwhelming defaulted debt? Any other thoughts I would appreciate seeing.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:26 | 4047694 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

What is going on?  Obama needs time...and good press.  He was facing one scandal after the next just two weeks ago.  Surprise!  Almost all coverage of any of that is gone.  If he can blow the Reps up, any investigation into his past fuck-ups will be diminished. He needs to milk this bitch as long as possible because he wants the BENGAZI effect to happen; stonewall and delay long enough, then things get forgotten.  Then comes the fight for the House next year, and Obama wants to be in the position to hand out more unfunded goodies up until next November. Count on most of the MSM to be right on board with him.


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:15 | 4047845 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

Exactly fockwulfe190.  Obama and Rahm are suckin' each others dicks here.  Get the most out of this crisis.  Don't let it go to waste.  Maybe some of these scandals and impeachable offenses will go away.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:36 | 4047721 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Perhaps people in Washington and New York are realizing that there are too many fat cats and not as many spoils? They are essentially the mob. What happens with every mob?

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:14 | 4047654 Arbysauce
Arbysauce's picture

Obama will overreach in his hubris. Closing memorial to vets is a case in point. He doesn't get how fundamentally despicable that is for people that "cling to guns god and religion." What advantage does he hope to gain from that? Does he think he can get vets to blame the repubs for that? No way.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:20 | 4047670 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Exactly, closing the memorial to the vets, how stupid is that?  Besides, those memorials (and the National Parks) are ours, not his.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:38 | 4047727 Arbysauce
Arbysauce's picture

Well....they weren't voting for him anyway so it's just a big fuck you to people he despises.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:55 | 4047965 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

How about preventing people from looking at a mountain? Our "civil servants actually have been doing that, obeying such orders. The park service. Now imagine what the FBI and all those federal SWAT cops will be ready to do. Google up "milgram".

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:32 | 4048166 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

They WERE ours, or at least we were led to believe so. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and O'Whatshisname & Co. make the laws now and they have a rather large, well-armed police force to enforce their laws too.

It's time to recognize that there has been a covert coup in the USofA. What you and the rest of us have been trained to believe is not true anymore.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:20 | 4047675 Landrew
Landrew's picture

The funny thing is our lab's website is working fine however, it is dark to the public. There is NO gain from this other than making the public think we are closed. The tours are stopped even though they are staffed by volunteers, sad that the games played are so shallow and not very creative at that. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 11:37 | 4047733 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Obama will overreach in his hubris. Closing memorial to vets is a case in point.

IMHO, you're missing the point.  They want the powder keg to blow.  They keep pushing and pushing and pushing and eventually somebody is going to snap, which is all in the plan.  They want civil unrest so they can blame the death of our nation on the people and walk away smelling like a rose.  

Obama isn't just closing war memorials to be a dick.  There's a sinister strategy behind it.  I'm actually amazed at how evil he and his minions are. 

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:14 | 4047790 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture

He's already purged a lot of the highest military commanders so I doubt the military will be on the side of the people in the US. So yes, there has been a strategy behind this.

Nuke commanders Navy Vice Adm. Tim Giardina and Maj. Gen. Michael Carey are the latest.

This site has been creating a list:


Maj. Gen. Michael Carey

Navy Vice Adm. Tim Giardina

Maj. Gen. Ralph Baker

Rear Admiral Charles Gaouette

General Carter Ham

Gen. William “Kip” Ward

General David Petraeus

General John Allen

General Stanley McChrystal

Gen. David McKiernan

Marine General James “Hoss” Cartwright

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:28 | 4048052 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Google the generals the Turkish pols have cashiered and you get an idea of what is truly happening here. Hamstring the military and use Cloward-Piven combined with Alinsky to crash and re-build in your image; fundamental transformation as promised..


Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:40 | 4048077 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

you can't just replace generals and expect everyone under them to fall in line.  watch the colonels.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 13:47 | 4048084 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture

Read the article linked above, a lot of them have been purged also.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 14:14 | 4048144 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

first of all no junks from me.  second of all, define "a lot."  there are literally thousands and thousands of colonels and lt colonels in the army alone.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:24 | 4048233 g'kar
g&#039;kar's picture

Bad choice of words.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:08 | 4047833 Parousia
Parousia's picture

Don't be amazed at how evil he and his minions (and those in power) are; expect it.  #history

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:25 | 4047878 Arbysauce
Arbysauce's picture

In that case he overestimates his personal power. He doesn't command enough personal loyalty. If he blows up the system, loyalty to him as a person will be all he has. And he's nothing. He's cotton candy. You'll come to a bad end barack.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:41 | 4047916 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ a huge one.  It will be fascinating to watch what happens to Obama after he blows it all up.

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 12:57 | 4047971 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

I disagree for a very scary reason: Obama is just a puppet, a figure-head. In a sense, HE is the fall guy. When things really fall apart, in the fullness of time he will get the blame, but TPTB also promised that he'd have a lot of fun in the meantime.

Imagine the deal as it was explained to him that he was being groomed to be President (maybe a LONG time ago)

"The American People will hate your guts, but you'll have a lot of worshippers, have your own personal chef, get to play lots of golf and take lots of vacations. All you have to do is read what we put up on the teleprompter."

Sat, 10/12/2013 - 15:09 | 4048216 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

"I'm actually amazed at how evil he and his minions are. "

Since figuring out 9/11, not so much.  Good analysis, though.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 05:19 | 4049557 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Obama and Jarret are crunching cracka's.  It is one part of their strategy that they really relish and it is raw meat to their "vibrant" base.

My brother in law was a carreer NPS ranger at Yellowstone and one of the original members of their swat team.  He is furious at the public because they don't "understand" what the NPS are doing.  He certainly has no clue that they are being Obama's tool or that they are prime part of the democrats race-bating agenda.  I can't wait until they chase those federal assholes who exist on stolen goods off of all "federal" lands west of the missippi.

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