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Guest Post: They’re Coming For Your Savings

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by John Rubino via The Dollar Collapse blog,

Another of history’s many lessons is that governments under pressure become thieves. And today’s governments are under a lot of pressure.

Before we look at the coming wave of asset confiscations, let’s stroll through some notable episodes of the past, just to make the point that government theft of private wealth is actually pretty common.

• Ancient Rome had a rule called “proscription” that allowed the government to execute and then confiscate the assets of anyone found guilty of “crimes against the state.” After the death of Julius Caesar in 44 BC, three men, Mark Anthony, Lepidus, and Caesar’s adopted son Octavian, formed a group they called the Second Triumvirate and divided the Empire between them. But two rivals, Brutus and Cassius, formed an army with which they planned to take the Empire for themselves. The Triumvirate needed money to fund an army of its own, and decided the best way to raise it was by kicking the proscription process into overdrive. They drew up a list of several hundred wealthy Romans, accused them of crimes, executed them and took their property.

• In the mid-1530s, English king Henry VIII was short of funds, so he seized the country’s monasteries and claimed their property and income for the Crown. As historian G. J. Meyer tells it in The Tudors: The Complete Story of England’s Most Notorious Dynasty:

“By April fat trunks were being hauled into London filled with gold and silver plate, jewelry, and other treasures accumulated by the monasteries over the centuries. With them came money from the sale of church bells, lead stripped from the roofs of monastic buildings, and livestock, furnishings, and equipment. Some of the confiscated land was sold – enough to bring in £30,000 – and what was not sold generated tens of thousands of pounds in annual rents. The longer the confiscations continued, the smaller the possibility of their ever being reversed or even stopped from going further. The money was spent almost as quickly as it flooded in – so quickly that any attempt to restore the monasteries to what they had been before the suppression would have meant financial ruin for the Crown. Nor would those involved in the work of the suppression … ever be willing to part with what they were skimming off for themselves.”

• Soon after the French Revolution in 1789, the new government confiscated lands and other property of the Catholic Church and used the proceeds to back a new form of paper currency called assignats. The resulting money printing binge quickly spun out of control, resulting in hyperinflation and the rise of Napoleon.

• During the US Civil War, Congress passed laws confiscating property used for “insurrectionary purposes” and of citizens generally engaged in rebellion.

• In 1933, in the depths of the Great Depression, president Franklin Roosevelt banned the private ownership of gold and ordered US citizens to turn in their gold. Those who did were paid in paper dollars at the then current rate of $20.67 per ounce. Once the confiscation was complete, the dollar was devalued to $35 per ounce of gold, effectively stealing 70 percent of the wealth of those who surrendered their gold.

• In 1942, after entering World War II, the US moved all Japanese citizens within its borders to concentration camps and sold off their property. The detainees were released in 1945, given $25 and a train ticket home – without being reimbursed for their losses.

Since the 2008 financial crisis, various kinds of capital controls and asset confiscations have become common. A few examples:

• Iceland required that firms seeking to invest abroad get permission from the central bank and that individual Icelanders get government authorization to buy foreign currency or travel overseas.

• Greece pulled funds directly from bank and brokerage accounts of suspected tax evaders, without prior notice or judicial due process.

• Argentina banned the purchase of U.S. dollars for personal savings and required banks to make loans in pesos at rates considerably below the true inflation rate.

• The US Fed proposed that money market funds be allowed to limit withdrawals of customer cash in times of market stress.

• Cyprus, a eurozone country, responded to a series of bank failures by confiscating 47.5% of domestic bank accounts over €100,000.

• Poland in September responded to a budgetary shortfall by confiscating the assets of the country’s private pension funds without offering any compensation.

• Spain was recently revealed to have looted its largest public pension fund, the Social Security Reserve Fund, by ordering it to use its cash to buy Spanish government bonds. Currently 90% percent of the €65 billion fund had been invested in Spanish sovereign paper, leaving the fund’s beneficiaries dependent on future governments’ ability to manage their finances.

Now for the big one, reported by Automatic Earth on Saturday October 12:

The IMF Proposes A 10% Supertax On All Eurozone Household Savings
This is a story that should raise an eyebrow or two on every single face in Europe, and beyond. I saw the first bits of it on a Belgian site named Express.be, whose writers in turn had stumbled upon an article in French newspaper Le Figaro, whose writer Jean-Pierre Robin had leafed through a brand new IMF report (yes, there are certain linguistic advantages in being Dutch, Canadian AND Québecois). In the report, the IMF talks about a proposal to tax everybody’s savings, in the Eurozone. Looks like they just need to figure out by how much.

 

The IMF, I’m following Mr. Robin here, addresses the issue of the sustainability of the debt levels of developed nations, Europe, US, Japan, which today are on average 110% of GDP, or 35% more than in 2007. Such debt levels are unprecedented, other than right after the world wars. So, the Fund reasons, it’s time for radical solutions.

 

The IMF refers to a few studies, like one from 1990 by Barry Eichengreen on historical precedents, one from April 2013 by Saxo Bank chief economist Steen Jakobsen, who saw a 10% general asset tax as needed to repair government debt levels, and one by German economist Stefan Bach, who concluded that if all Germans owning more than €250,000, representing €2.95 trillion in wealth, were “supertaxed” on their assets at a 3.4% rate, the government could collect €100 billion, or 4% of GDP.

 

French investor site monfinancier.com talks about people close to the Elysée government discussing how a 17% supertax on all French savings over €100,000 would clear all government debt. The site is not the only voice to mention that raising “normal” taxes on either individuals or corporations is no longer viable, since it would risk plunging various economies into recession or depression.

 

Here’s what the October 2013 IMF report, entitled Fiscal Monitor : Taxing Times, literally says on the topic, in the chapter called:

Taxing Our Way Out Of – Or Into? – Trouble
The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a capital levy, a one-off tax on private wealth, as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability. (1) The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible, and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair).

 

There have been illustrious supporters, including Pigou, Ricardo, Schumpeter, and, until he changed his mind, Keynes. The conditions for success are strong, but also need to be weighed against the risks of the alternatives, which include repudiating public debt or inflating it away (these, in turn, are a particular form of wealth tax on bondholders that also falls on non-residents).

It should probably be obvious that there is one key sentence here, one which explains why the IMF is seriously considering the capital levy (supertax) option, even if it’s presented as hypothetical:

 

The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible, and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair).

 

It all hangs on the IMF’s notion – or hope – that it can be implemented by stealth, before people have the chance to put their money somewhere else (and let’s assume they’re not thinking of digging in backyards, and leave tax havens alone for now). Also, that after the initial blow, people will accept the tax because they are confident it’s a one-time only thing. And finally, that a sense of justice will prevail among a population, a substantial part of whom will have little, if anything, left to tax.

Some thoughts
Will more countries introduce capital controls or asset confiscations in the next few years? Duh, of course. Debt levels are unmanageable, so they have to be lowered. And there are only three ways to do it: deflationary collapse that wipes out the debt through default, inflation that wipes out the debt by destroying the world’s major currencies, or stealing enough private sector wealth to reset the clock. Option one – depression – is political poison so will be avoided at all costs. Option two is being tried and is failing because the deflationary effect of trillions of dollars of bad debt more or less equals the inflationary impact of trillions of dollars of new currency.

That just leaves door number three, demonize the successful and take what they’ve accumulated. Recall from the historical list that opened this post that governments like to pick on members of society who 1) have lots of money and 2) have lots of enemies or can easily be framed for crimes. This time around it will be “the rich” who are living well at the expense of the rest of us. The trick will be to define “rich” down far enough to make possible the confiscation of middle-class IRAs and 401(K)s, since that’s where the real money is.

Interesting that the build-up to asset confiscation is coinciding with a coordinated take-down of gold and silver, the two assets that will be hardest to steal when the time comes.

 


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Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:42 | Link to Comment vortmax
vortmax's picture

What savings?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment Mototard at Large
Mototard at Large's picture

It is not just cash savings, it is value of any sort that you hold in a house, 401K, RRSP etc,

See The Savers versus the Takers: Potential Social Unrest

 

http://www.brokenmirrors.ca/?p=124

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:21 | Link to Comment CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding's picture

What house?  What 401k?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Article above repeats a common mistake, claiming that FDR's gold confiscation took away 70% of value ... actually it was just over 40%

Executive order 6102 ... signed on 5 April 1933 ... Here are the maths:

When it took US $20.67 to buy an ounce of gold, then 1 dollar was worth .0483 ounces of gold

When it took US $35.00 to buy an ounce of gold, then 1 dollar was worth .0285 ounces of gold

So the dollar would buy .0198 ounces less of gold than the earlier quantity of .0483 ounces ... in other words, 40.9% less (Take 40.9% of 483 and you get 198)

Of course Americans in their 'land of freedom', just having won the right to drink back, after 14 years of Taliban-style religious fanatic insane 'Prohibition' of alcohol, then could not buy gold again until the 1970s

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:53 | Link to Comment Anglo Hondo
Anglo Hondo's picture

Or take 70% of 285 and you get 199.  Depends on which way you look at it.

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 16:10 | Link to Comment Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

Is this why bitcoin is rallying?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Here's another radical solution. STOP SPENDING!!!!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 21:56 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Last time I was in the market for a home I looked at several owned by generation Me who had not a dime of equity in the property after having on it for 30+ years.  And yes, those crazy fuckers are retiring now.   The Free Shit Army is about to get an influx of a few tens of millions geriatric lefties.    What could go wrong?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 22:20 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I'm thinking, instead of killing a few rich guys and taking their money, kill a bunch of poor "free shit" losers and save GENERATIONS of lost expense.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment freelearner
freelearner's picture

Sure, you could say that gold appreciated by 69% relative to dollars, or that dollars depreciated 41% relative to gold.  But these are not interchangeable percentages, and it would be incorrect to say that dollars fell by 69%.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 16:08 | Link to Comment all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

So if you earned $1.20 an hour or $.02 a minute --

It would have taken you 1,033.5 minutes of work to earn enough to buy an ounce of gold (at $20.67).

 

After the gov revalued the dollar to $35 per ounce of gold - at $.02 per minute it would have taken you 1,750 minutes.

 

That is 716.5 minutes  or 716.5/1033.5 = 69.33% longer

 

Seems like if you must work 69% longer to buy the same amount than they did in fact steal 69% from you?

 

But if you just took the  $20.67 you could buy .59 of an ounce of gold @ $35 an ounce

So you would have 41% less gold.

Just think how much better would you feel if they only cheated you out of 41% rather than 69%. /sarc/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 23:02 | Link to Comment hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

Maths are hard, but I see they still teach it in Belgium.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Houses are going to be a big one.  It won't matter to the thieves how much they're "worth".  The Zydokomuna plan is to throw us all off our land and turn us into neo-feudal rent serfs.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:19 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Oops, looks like the resident Hasbara troll has arrived.  Only one of you guys has been coming around recently.  Been getting stretched thin policing the internet for your overlords?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:11 | Link to Comment Rentier
Rentier's picture

Only works if you agree to take the home equity loan...if you stupid enough will then you get what you get.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 02:14 | Link to Comment Midas
Midas's picture

When you do what you did, you get what you got.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

And the govt. has been hinting about having 401k's be required to invest in treasuries.  I see soon this will be a requirement.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 04:15 | Link to Comment Bankrupt from B...
Bankrupt from Belgium's picture

and if you have assets in shares / bonds / a home and only a little cash the only way to pay the tax (read theft) is to sell something.  One of the problems will be that many others will be in the same situation and doing the same thing......

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:27 | Link to Comment orez65
orez65's picture

"What savings?"

Speak for yourself shithead!

Some of us have saved and not pissed it away like you.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:41 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

Great foresight saving in paper, shitforbrains.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

AAhhhh......beat me to his beating.

Exactly right......so he saved up worthless pieces of paper backed up by the worthless notion of the full faith and credit of the USA. 

And for you gold bugs.....they're gonna get your gold too.....by coercion, taxation, and gunpoint if they have to.

Pensions......Social Security........HHAHAHAHAHAHAH....  Wwoooohooo....LOL !

The only way you're going to get your country back is with lead and copper.

Good luck with that.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:07 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

I think he was referring to his tragic boating accident a couple months back.  Vortmax lost everything, I felt really bad for the guy when I heard about it.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 18:24 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I don't think the gov is going to fall for the boating accident shtick.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 08:59 | Link to Comment N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

Boat reciepts save fortunes.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:34 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling."

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 17:44 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

I'm all for them confiscating the wealth of the Catholic Church. That treasure was accumulated by duping people with tall tales of something called "hell". Total bullshit. Strip them clean and split the proceeds with the 50,000 men that were raped by those monsters!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:43 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Why are they coming for MY savings?  The eternal enemy has plenty, most of it made through usurious money-changing, illegal dealings, and uncouth patronage.  But of course it is they of whom I speak who will come.  Let them.  Many will die.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Yes, as in Rome, take the Lord Blankfiends and JP Morons, for they ahs the lota and lots of the stuff.
And that would be sooooo popular with the peasantry.
Then claim redistribution as the EBT Spice keeps flowing.

Methinks trying that here at home right now might just prove a tad unpopular (taxing savings) what with the recent shenanigans in da district.

IhopeIhopeIhope

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:16 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

They would love to print their way out of this. Unfortunately, the Chinese would greatly prefer deflation to inflation. And they have nuclear weapons.

Nope, it's going to be increased taxes combined with "emergency measures" like bail-ins and forced conversion of retirement plans.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:26 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

They're already printing their way out of this, but it's still not enough! The printed dollars are simply making balance sheets look better for banks, but not fixing debt, so they was more as usual.

What should be concerning is that should these taxes happen, then some portion of the outstanding debt gets paid off -- meaning the principle is handed back to those holding the debt. I have to imagine these confications are being urged by parties that want the principle back now, rather than later. My guess is it's because they know the next wave of inflation will devalue their investment if they don't pull out ahead of it, and since they're pushing for this, it means high inflation is within their planning timeframe.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Sorry to break this to you guys, but while I hope nobody gets stolen from, if they're going to steal from anyone it might as well be boomers.

I know no one here asked for it, but as a whole....boomers fucking asked for for it.

I already understood, probably before I was an adult and looking at my paychecks as a teenager, I already understood that I'd probably never see those SS, Medicare, or FICA taxes used for my benefit.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Even 20 years ago the commercials and ads about retirement savings left me feeling like I was seriously missing something.  Funny how cognative dissonance feels when you realize that is what is you are experiencing.  Shit, my whole adult life has been one big cog dis trip... which I must say has been a real bitch.

Yeah, the boomers played right into this.  Karma is a bitch, isn't it - not just for greed, but turning a blind eye too.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:04 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

"I already understood, after my parents raised me, educated me, and while I was living in their basement, that the easiest way for me to own my own home and get some money was to throw them under the bus and take their stuff".

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:49 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

That's not what I said at all.  I don't think even they knew how much decline America would see during their lifetimes, and I think few understoond how poorly they were stewarding their freedoms.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 07:47 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I wonder if we sounded as naive as you when we predicted the end of America during the Viet Nam era.

Your type of ignorance is the hardest group to stomach, of the ZH crowd.

Whaaaaaa, the govt is stealing our money.......but it's OK to steal boomers money, because they are to blame for all the worlds ills.

Without ever accepting the fact that your logic places the blame for the recent DOUBLING of the deficit on YOU.

Why didn't you DO something?

Your whining kids will be throwing their parents under the bus in 30 years during the next "great depression".

I'd stick with the crucifying of the "free shit" crowd, If I were you. You'll sound less uninformed.

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

+1 BB.  Writing has been on the wall for quite some time.  No one wants to believe it though.  Fucking world is being liquidated.  The collapse is masked by Central Bank actions - not stopped.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:44 | Link to Comment ZippyBananaPants
ZippyBananaPants's picture

Exactly, I'm spending everything so they will have nothing to take!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 22:11 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Exactly, I'm spending everything so they will have nothing to take!"

 

NO NO NO !!!!!   That's EXACTLY what the motherfuckers want you to do.  Be a mindless, all consuming locust.  Keep that money flowing around (debt based note....I know)

But TAKE your money out of the system and starve the beast AND load up on EVERY SINGLE GOVERMENT PROGRAM out there.  Become the poison pill in the putrid gut of the beast.  So what if they take some of your fiat paper.  TAKE MORE BACK FROM THE BEAST in goverment handouts. 

BE THE POISON INSIDE THE OUROBORUS (the snake or dragon eating itself)   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

It's time for REAL guerilla warfare.....economic style.

 

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment frenchie
frenchie's picture

forgot to add what Soviets did to Eastern Europe as well...

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:57 | Link to Comment rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

and the US in Iraq,

and NATO in Libya.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

And the Federalies in America
And Californians in Lalaland

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:47 | Link to Comment andycrazn
andycrazn's picture

my savings is the accumulation of debt. il let em have it for free

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Obamabots reaction : well of course they are! *rolls eyes*

Maybe they'll start doing like the Soviets and imprison anyone who they think has gold... if they arrested you and you got no gold to give them, you were fucked. But if you have gold, don't give it too quickly or they will not believe you and say you have more stashed away... but then don't wait too long either to cough it up or you could kick the bucket... remember you're not just in prison, they torture you while you're there. If the Soviet scenario happened in America, a lot of people would be doomed to die in prison... like many in the Soviet Union did.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:07 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Not to mention Guantanamo Bay. If they can arrest them and hold them indefinitely with no trial, no proof, and get away with it they can do it to you.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:51 | Link to Comment MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

You didn't save that!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:52 | Link to Comment buzzardsluck
buzzardsluck's picture

and when haven't governments been thieves?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

But who elected the thieves ?

Karma's a bitch.  You stole this land from the reds.......and built it on the unpaid or underpaid sweat of the blacks and browns and yellows.

Now you bitch about government thievery.

That's rich.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:35 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Almost every country 'stole it's land' from some indigenous people. And the idea that the country was built on the sweat of slave labor is a joke. Did they build all the factories and roads? And I wasn't aware that 'brown' (latino) people were ever slaves. Grow up and graduate from high school.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 22:12 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"And I wasn't aware that 'brown' (latino) people were ever slaves. Grow up and graduate from high school."

JEEZUS.....look around fool.....they're called "illegal immigrants"  The New Indentured Servant.  The New Slave.

Oh...and by the way.....I graduated high school in 1982 with honors.  And I have grown up to see what a lie America has been and is today.

So fuck you.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:07 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

And where did the reds get it? And how much has the government shelled out in education, welfare and other benefits to the so called down trodden races?

What are you, 13 and just read your first book?

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 09:25 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Native Americans didn't need government largesse for 10,000 years you fucking moron.....until we came and put them in concentration camps called reservations and government largesse was just a token of our white guilt.  I should know....I can trace my lineage back to Tishomingo, one time leader of the Chickasaw Nation.

All the clothes on the backs of the Minutemen and the Founders and the uniforms of both the South and the North of the Civil War was from cotton picked by the bloodied hands of the black man in the cotten fields who were ripped from their ancestral home of Africa because just like today....there weren't enough white people willing to do the dirty work.  I should know....I picked cotton, even as a white boy with the black folk on the plantation growing up as a kid in Mississippi.

Fuck you and your sense of outrage against the "so called downtrodden".  They may not all be right or go about it the right way.....but after the collapse of 2007-2008 and coming out of the Matrix to discover that even though I'm white and came from a somewhat privileged lower middle class life......I've been just another fucking "so called down trodden race" to the Powers That Be.

And so are you.  You're just too fucking stupid to realize it.....and have Rush Limbaugh's dick in your mouth so far in to have a fucking clue.

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:52 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

We need to become poor ASAP !!!!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Working on that for sure.  At least for once I seem to be heading in the right direction!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:54 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"or stealing enough private sector wealth to reset the clock"

I doubt there's enough private sector wealth to do that or even a significant fraction of it.  It will probably be a combination of #1, 2, and 3 unless something triggers #1.  I hope it's #1 since its the proper way and was the way the debt growth curve was reset prior to central bank inerventions. 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:12 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You might want to do some research. Recent numbers have .6% of the world's populaton holding 42% of the wealth. That is about three million people with assets in excess of 1 $million. That seems to be a common lie told over and over. I can't imagine by whom...

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 19:01 | Link to Comment Nimby
Nimby's picture

And what "wealth" is that?  Securities that are inflated by fake money?  Useless patents for products that are only useful to a populace that over-consumes for the sake of consumption?

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 09:39 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

I read an editorial that claimed Walmart couldn't offer health insurance to its employees because it would cost more than the $17B Walmart profits every year.  Then I read that the $17B number is _after_ the 4 Walton heirs suck $120B out of the company in salaries for themselves alone.  Can't afford to do anything my ass.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:52 | Link to Comment Everyman
Everyman's picture

From my cold dead hands my have to mean something agin.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:59 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Actually, it would help if they changed it to:

From their cold dead hands We The People shall rebuild our Constitutional Republic.

As Gen. Patton was famous for saying:

   Make the other bastard die for his country!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:53 | Link to Comment I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

 

Support uour complex and Overloards

Your tax dollars at work: Inside the United States’ $52.6B “black budget

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/your-tax-dollars-at-work-insi...

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:55 | Link to Comment I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Quick everyone sign up for Obamacare and EBT. 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:55 | Link to Comment bugs_
bugs_'s picture

its already gone - only the accounting and instantaneous price discovery have yet to occur

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:54 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Coming? There's already here!

http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/543709/?cat_orig=money

McAfee: Hackers will empty (Obamacare) enrollees' bank accounts


Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:16 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

My wife and kids must be hackers.  lol.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:56 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Temporay ,and one off taxes always become become permanent ,and continuing throughout history.

When it gets serious they always lie.

10%?

Tyler  has aready posted that 35% was needed across the board,and that was several years old data.

The 1% will avoid it,so is that a 90% haircut for the 99% ?

 

All of your paper assets are only on loan,hedge accordingly.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:55 | Link to Comment holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

On the 35% wealth tax, the BCG paper is a must read:

The "Muddle Through" Has Failed: BCG Says "There May Be Only Painful Ways Out Of The Crisis"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/muddle-through-has-failed-bcg-says-there-m...

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:56 | Link to Comment Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Thuggery.

The world doesn't have a drug problem, it has a thug problem... always has.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:55 | Link to Comment WhoMe
WhoMe's picture

The article should read. " How the EU plans to wipe out the deposits of their banks". So who would keep one penny in the bank if their savings are going to be taxed 10% per year? Even the uber rich will invest in vaults and pull their money out. After all, try making 10% gains per year with your investments let alone losing 10% per year from a savings tax. I see this as nothing short of a desperate EU trying to discourage saving and encourage spending.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

Molon labe - make My day

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

Come and take it!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

They already are.

Look at your paycheck......Payroll tax.....Social Security.  Then April 15th......the collective slides of guns being clicked as you write your tax check out.  Not to mention your property tax, car tag tax, drivers license tax, etc, etc.

Then inflation everywhere you spend taking what's left.

Oh yeah....you're a badass allright......"Come and take it ! "    LOL !!!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:59 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If you're 59.5 or older, you can make penalty-free IRA withdrawals.  Put your money into your private bank

Bank of Certa & Sealy.  Discreet & private (no Big Bro/Ho), no Confiscation, no Haircuts, fo FEES!  Better ROI* too.  BTW, Europeans tend to use cash far more than 'mericans, so they are quite familiar with this "tried & proven" banks of 'Home Banking'.

 

* When you consider that people who use Cash spend ~ 25% less than those who use the Credit/Debit (to satisfy their Impulse-Shopping addiction), you are miles ahead of the Sheeple who keep the bulk of their Paper wealth (fiat money) with the banks.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:16 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

And if you're under 59.5, you can take the pentalty, pay the tax, and move your money out of the system and into hard assets.

I did this with my IRA in 2008, and even in the top tax bracket + penalty I'm ahead of where I'd be had I left it in.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 17:50 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

I agree with using cash. The .00002% interest isn't worth the risk of the banks freezing assets. You should check out CNBC.com. They actually wrote a story about the evils of cash. They pulled the number $200 billion out of their asses as the "cost of using cash". It's a good read as long as you don't harm your computer upon completion.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 12:59 | Link to Comment No-Debt
No-Debt's picture

I see a revolution coming, and many body's hanging from trees. Got ammo?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment Mototard at Large
Mototard at Large's picture

I concur completely.

Being a saver will be punished by the takers.

The Savers: Those with a savings account, a personal retirement fund, a pension fund, equity in their homes or other cash assets.

The Takers:  Governments with unreasonably high debt levels, supra-international institutions such as the EU, Central Banks, and financial institutions.

http://www.brokenmirrors.ca/?p=124 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:02 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

That's why I have all my money in a business checking account. I wouldn't be getting anything if I had a savings account, and the business checking is protected.

I also have a $5000 limit on withdrawal without bank manager approval. If I really want $10k in cash I can get it, when personal checking withdrawals are capped at $1000 at my bank.

Lots of perks and an automatic $10k credit line I can tap, and never pay back, if the shit does hit the fan.

If you have to have a checking account, create an LLC and open a business account.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:11 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

When Cypress happened, it was small businesses that were hit the hardest. Their accounts got drained as well, and unlike larger entities, they typically manage all operations out of the checking account. Many couldn't make payroll or lost operating capital and had to close up shop.

If it's in the system, it's not protected. Period.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:12 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

adr,

Although I do the same myself,what makes you think you are protected ?

Cypriot businesses were fucked along with the general public.They have to

get govt. permission to use those balances.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Did you see the news story about the small business grocery store owner who had his assets confiscated by the Federal Government because he was regularly depositing $9000 in cash into his account?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Mototard at Large
Mototard at Large's picture

It is not just cash savings or checking accounts, it is value of any sort that you hold in a house, 401K, RRSP etc,

See The Savers versus the Takers: Potential Social Unrest

 

http://www.brokenmirrors.ca/?p=124

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:12 | Link to Comment pursueliberty
pursueliberty's picture

I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people here must bank at the BIG banks.

 

I could walk into a branch and get $20k without a question, any more than that I need to go to the Main Branch.  Smaller bank, but anytime I've needed poker money its there.

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:04 | Link to Comment logically possible
logically possible's picture

Please don't share this history too far and wide. You don't want to give the current regime and henchmen anymore ideas.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

This is already written into law for money in the bank through in Dodd-Frank as bail-ins.

The only thing missing at the moment is a means to force asset taxes -- capital gains only works on sales. A fairly subtle change in that rule (just require capital gains to be paid on any gain regardless of sale or not) and they're done.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

It has all been a Communist trick. The expropriation of private property is the result of Communist schemes that were designed to necessitate just this thing. All you howling about the "banksters" are way off track. Of course they benefit in these times, but in the not too distant future the Communists will exterminate them as a class. Yet you all think they're running the show. Get a clue.

 

 

http://www.nowpublic.com/politics/collapse-soviet-union-was-staged-0

 

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:15 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Just two sides of the same Zydokomuna coin.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:22 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Zionist trick. Zionism = communism.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Like I said: Zyd(o) + Komuna = ???

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Your reply wasn't there when I posted. 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:17 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Right on.  I won't beat you up over a 7 minute timestamp difference.  F5/refresh is key.  No need to apologize man, we're all on here sharing ideas and spreading the word.

But as the resident Pollack on ZH I reserve the right to use Zydokomuna to refer to the eternal enemies of everything we hold dear. 

The NSA already knows who I am, so there's no need to hide my ethnicity/heritage.  But I'm no threat to them since I have very little holding me here in the US anymore, I can simply leave.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:29 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I hadn't heard of this term before, but exactly. Poles 1n 1819, amazing how far back their methodology can be tracked. Citation got me interested in Kevin MacDonald's book- see what you've done, that's another $25.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:32 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

If they can play such a long term game so succesfully I'm willing to give them a try.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

Become thieves?

Excellent read although it's very long.

Coming Clean Beyond the Fiscal Cliff (Catherine Austin Fitts)

"Shortly after arriving at HUD in April 1989, I began to learn about the FHA Coinsurance program. Since 1984, HUD/FHA had allowed private mortgage bankers to issue federal credit to guarantee multi-family apartment projects. After issuing $9 billion in mortgage guarantees, HUD/FHA was to lose something approaching 50% of the value of the portfolio — a level of losses hard to explain with mortal logic. When my staff approached me with a proposal to bail out a mortgage company so they could continue to lose money for us, I asked why we should spend money to lose more money in a way that would harm communities. After a long silence during which 30 staff members intently studied their feet, one brave soul explained to me that the mortgage bank was owned and run by a major Republican donor. Shocked, I said. "I am a major Republican donor," and pointing to my presidential cufflinks that were adorning my French cuffs, "I got a pair of cuff links. You get cuff links. You don't get $400 million of federal credit to throw down the drain." My staff looked at me like I was so naive and clueless that there was no point in trying to communicate with me — better to let me learn the hard way. Within minutes, a screaming [Secretary of HUD] Jack Kemp, furious that I had not provided illegal subsidy to keep the mortgage banking company going (despite his orders to stop anything corrupt or illegal), called me on the carpet."

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:23 | Link to Comment Silver Sativa
Silver Sativa's picture

Go to the press with this story. It sounds juicy -- and precient. :P

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment socalbeach
socalbeach's picture

There's so much good stuff at that link that I felt bad just picking that one quote. Here's another:


"Federal finances depend on the U.S. dollar's status as the global reserve currency and the ability of the Treasury and federal agencies to borrow from and transact in financial markets despite their not complying with the basic standards required of state and local governments and private companies to access those same markets.

This is made possible by the tactical threat and use of force. Essentially, the U.S. military, with its strategic control of sea lanes and space and global trade and communications, is the enforcement arm for the banking cartel run by the Federal Reserve, as proxy for the U.S. Treasury."

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:21 | Link to Comment Silver Sativa
Silver Sativa's picture

The rich / super-elite will NEVER pay for a bail-in scheme. The super-rich / super-wealthy were only given a one month warning before the bail-in in Cyprus, earlier this year.

 

Bail-ins are for the serfs -- basically, the bottom 95% of the wealth-owning population. There goes my meager nest-egg.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:26 | Link to Comment moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Option one – depression – is political poison so will be avoided at all costs."

 

WE ARE ALREADY IN A DEPRESSION AND HAVE BEEN FOR 5 YEARS.

47 MILLION PEOPLE ON FOOD STAMPS IS A DEPRESSION

CHRONIC 10% REAL UNEMPLOYMENT IS A DEPRESSION

 

STOP PRETENDING UNEMPLOYMNET HAS TO REACH 25% IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE A DEPRESSION


Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:52 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Unemployment IS over 25%.  Just ask 15-30 year olds.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:29 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

And in the case of unemployed idividuals it's been known to reach 100%

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:33 | Link to Comment Yancey Ward
Yancey Ward's picture

Inevitable is how I would describe it.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:31 | Link to Comment involuntarilybirthed
involuntarilybirthed's picture

They'll call it "taking care of our own" or some other dip shit feel good program. 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Racer
Racer's picture

They already tax EVERYONE with savings by giving pathetic interest that does not keep up with inflation, so in effect a TAX

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Quaderratic Probing
Quaderratic Probing's picture

Anyone making new deposits in Cypris? No guess not

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:57 | Link to Comment 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

As many concerned and knowledgable observers have pointed out for some years, the transfer from savers to the takers (and we are not talking about EBT card holders) has already begun. Central bank zero interest rate policies constitute one of the biggest wealth transfer moves in history.

Later, they will finish the job off with inflation, pulling in from the savers as well as the subsistence populations.

 

 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 13:57 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

One of the things I find amazing is that the US generally does not use "tax collectors" or agents who go out and actually harass/shake down people for money.  Don't get me wrong, there are a handful who will come to your house and allow you to "correct" what they deem deficient based on what you put down on your form...but what happens when people stop paying en masse, as in just stop writing/filing the forms?

Will we see gangs of armed tax agents (can't go unarmed, they might be tea-party anarchist criminals who don't believe in governments) rolling up onto people's property and "assessing" whatever they deem the right to assess and be given authority over how to collect (seize, appropriate, apportion, requisition, etc.) whatever they feel like taking that day?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:48 | Link to Comment Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

The government-service and and law-enforcement agencies, the prosecutors and the judges have already perfected asset forfeiture.  They sieze property remotely, by decree.  Property owner vs government -- government always wins.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:00 | Link to Comment Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Government is guilty of crimes against humanity - stealing and spending OTHER peoples money....

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Mototard at Large
Mototard at Large's picture

It is not just cash savings, it is value of any sort that you hold in a house, 401K, RRSP etc,

See The Savers versus the Takers: Potential Social Unrest 

http://www.brokenmirrors.ca/?p=124

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Be sure to call on your congressman the next time he/she is in town. You might even leave some kind of calling card.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:21 | Link to Comment el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

The trick will be to define “rich” down far enough to make possible the confiscation of middle-class IRAs and 401(K)s, since that’s where the real money is.

Bullshit.  The "real money" is with the 500 wealthiest family clans in the world.  But you really can't expect their puppet politicians to confiscate their money.


Sun, 10/13/2013 - 17:45 | Link to Comment mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

What?!!! Confiscate the elite's wealth? And have the govenrment OWN the government?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:31 | Link to Comment e-recep
e-recep's picture

Monte Pashi coupon confiscation is missing in the list.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:38 | Link to Comment vegas
vegas's picture

"Oh, this could never happen in Amerika, right?"

hahahahahahahaha. A penny left in Amerika, is a penny Chalky has his eye on.

 

http://vegasxau.blogspot.com

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 14:41 | Link to Comment cristo
cristo's picture

Just like the income tax act they will have you beleive it will only apply to the rich

therefore most of the population will cheer the super tax on the "super rich" .

Only to find out later that everyone has to pay up .IT"S A TRAP .

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment giggler321
giggler321's picture

Ofcourse no mention of little old island Great Britain?  Ummm I never understand are we in or out of the European project?  If it's just currency then I assume they are talking to me?  I doubt Camerlot has much to say besides bending over for brussels.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:18 | Link to Comment kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

The irony is this: They, the criminals of government and their bankster masters, steal your saving deposits, then steal them further via inflation from currency created on the back of your deposits and then steal what remains from your account when things go bad, as they will and must.

 

Is it time for the guillotines yet?!

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:27 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

2014 - governments confiscate bitcoins

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:41 | Link to Comment Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

Anonymous Government Thief:

"This is a nation of people bitterly clinging to their 401Ks."

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 15:51 | Link to Comment roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Good luck finding mine.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Whiner
Whiner's picture

"Interim and Special 401k, IRA and Pension Notice: Pursuant to Executive Order and recently enacted ' Safety in American Retirement and Patriot Act, the assets in your account have been purchased buy The Federal Reserve Bank. The new priority, non-negotiable Treasury Bonds will assure American workers of a secure financial future free from the vagaries of market forces. Your future contributions will also be invested in these world class safe bonds. Statements will be issued henceforth only once every five years in compliance with the Order and Statute. Further questions? Visit our website www.urfuckedusa.gov."

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment layman_please
layman_please's picture

correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't see a way this can be implemented universally on all eurozone members. for example i cannot imagine germans agreeing with this as they have been major opponent of money printing in eurozone and at the end, both are confiscations(inflation is just stealth). as long as some countries are more in trouble, rest of them are not going to make sacrifices as we have seen until now because they just have no need for it.

country by country confiscation? just a matter of time, i suppose.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

What, All my savings were in my EBT card

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 18:42 | Link to Comment Longing for the...
Longing for the old America's picture

Obamacare sets the table for this theft of life savings.

It will force everyone to disclose all assets and account numbers under the guise of determining whether your care can be subsidized or how much penalty you ight be subject to for not having care. It is my understanding that nobody will be allowed to simply supply 'proof of health insurance' while also opting out of subsidies in order to avoid giving up all financial data.

 

This is one of the key hidden screw jobs of Obamacare. Those who already carry health insurance coverage will pay again for 'adopted' families they don't know. Then they will ultimately be subject to having 10% – 30% of their cumulative savings stolen from them without advance notice.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 21:30 | Link to Comment MyBrothersKeeper
MyBrothersKeeper's picture

And I suspect a reason why only 50k people have filled out the application.  At which pace they will have about 1.2 M enrollees in the initial 6-mth enrollment window.  CBO has already stated that for costs to be contained under the current projections (which are always wrong and always overestimate govt efficiency) there needs to be something like 7 M enrolles in the initial 6-mth period. Obamamath at it's finest.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 22:11 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

""Obamacare sets the table for this theft of life savings" ... no ... Obamacare sets the table for theft of life itself

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 18:50 | Link to Comment Nimby
Nimby's picture

Just because they try to confiscate wealth to solve the debt crisis, doesn't mean that it will be any more successful than money printing.

The deflationary collapse will come after everything else has been done. 

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 19:09 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Contrary to the feelings most here at ZH have about the ECB I think they were rather generous in their message: "DO NOT SAVE IN OUR CURRENCY, it is just a medium of exchange, do not be an idiot and accumulate it in large sums, if you want to save wealth do it in gold just as we do...check out our balance sheet...sure we have some paper but our number one asset is gold. (see Con Fin Stat ECB 10/2013  http://www.ecb.europa.eu/press/pr/wfs/2013/html/fs131009.en.html)

OK...they did not come right out and say it but could the message be clearer? Could it?

Many here can't get wealth out of the banking system (401k etc) but those who can should!!! Gold is iffy because it is priced by an iffy mechanism that considers a lot of things (Forex, futures and ETFs...everything BUT the sale of physical gold). This will end and gold will once again become the best mechanism for savings. OH YEAH it is on sale now...get some bullion today and tip your commenter later.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Other countries can try this confiscaton crap but the USA cannot. If the world's reserve currency creator ever reveals that it is that desperate...game over, new para-dimes.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Para-dime, paradigm, or do they have to pare a dime?

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 21:59 | Link to Comment syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

ZIRP got your "savings" long ago.

Sun, 10/13/2013 - 22:10 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

" Spain was recently revealed to have looted its largest public pension fund, the Social Security Reserve Fund, by ordering it to use its cash to buy Spanish government bonds. Currently 90% percent of the €65 billion fund had been invested in Spanish sovereign paper, leaving the fund’s beneficiaries dependent on future governments’ ability to manage their finances."

BFD ... The US loots its citizens of $85,000,000,000 per month and the Government has completely looted it's federal pension system (social security) and is paying off benefits with incoming taxes ... Spain is doing much better.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 02:35 | Link to Comment franciscopendergrass
franciscopendergrass's picture

What about the Nazi confiscation of Jewish property and Jews to work at labor camps and the Communist confiscation of everything!

 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 05:19 | Link to Comment mrmic2027
mrmic2027's picture

Then they will have to take my mattress to

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 06:23 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

But John, the Rich have off-shore accounts? So that leaves

Average Middle Class people.

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