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Marc Faber Warns "There Is No Safe Haven"

Tyler Durden's picture


There is no safe haven, Marc Faber tells Bloomberg TV's Tom Keene, "The best you can hope for is that you have a diversified portfolio of different assets and that they don't all collapse at the same time." Bank deposits are no longer safe; money and treasury bills are not 100% safe; and equities in the US are relatively expensive by any valuation metric. However, at around $1250, gold is a buy, Faber adds on the basis of the ongoing monetization of debt globally. The debt ceiling debacle will lead to the Fed stepping up to directly fund the government (something it already implicitly does but mainstream media prefer not to consider). Faber clarifies the idiocy of the discussions, "both parties want to spend, it's just on different things," with "the idiocies of government" having grown way too large, wasting money everywhere... the Democrats are "buying votes" and the Republicans funding the military complex. The debt-ceiling is merely a symptom of the problem, Faber concludes, that "government has grown disproportionately large and that retards economic growth."



Full Transcript:

Faber on gold:

"We have a strong rally form the lows at 1180 to over 1400 and now we are backing off. I think between around 1200 and 1250 it is getting into buying range. The sentiment about gold is very negative, but if you look at everything considered - the monetization of debt, the debt ceiling, which sooner or later will be increased because both Republicans and Democrats are big spenders and the government's debt has expanded from $1 trillion in 1980 to $5 trillion in 1999, now we are at $16 trillion. Both Democrats and Republicans have been big, big spenders because a lot of money flows through the government."

On how he sees the debt ceiling debate playing out:

"If they don't agree by the 17th, I think what can happen is that the Fed will actually finance the Treasury independently so the interest payments are being met. If the interest payments are not being met, I think it will cause quite a bit disruption to the financial market. I am not that concerned about that. I think this larger issue is like the euro issue a year ago where people were very negative and it was debated and so forth. In the end it is a political decision. I think both parties want to spend. It's just on different items that they want to spend money."

On whether what's going on across equities, bonds currencies and commodities, along with the events in US, can be compared to other idiocies by governments in previous decades:

"Yes, idiocies by governments. That is exactly the word. It's basically a dysfunctional government that we have that is far too large that is essentially wasting money left, right and center. The Republicans are wasting money on the military complex and the Democrats are basically buying votes with transfer payments, with entitlement programs, it goes on. It is a huge waste. The problem is that I don’t see a solution. I think the current debate about the debt ceiling and the budget is more a symptom of a problem than a problem itself. The problem is really that the government, not just in the US but other countries as well, has grown disproportionally large and that retards economic growth."

On whether there's a safe haven left:

"There is no safe haven. Bank deposits are not safe, which used to be safe. Money in treasury bills is not 100% safe because there is inflation in the system and you hardly get any interest. Bonds are not very safe anymore because eventually interest rates will go up. Equities in the US are relatively expensive by any valuation metrics you might use. I don't see anything particularly safe. The best you can hope for is that you have a diversified portfolio of different assets and that they don't all collapse at the same time."


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Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:36 | 4053877 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

It's a slam dunk buy at 1250

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:42 | 4053883 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

No shortage of retards, that's for sure. Seems like we're already in WWZ, just with retards instead of zombies.

Then they cut off the EBT...

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:48 | 4053895 Pharming
Pharming's picture

I'm diversified.  Three different calibers.  Multi food storage sites.  Several full 5 gallon gas containers for a long trip and that wife said what the hell is wrong with you...that runs on diesel, propane and regular gas.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:50 | 4053935 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Since the Fed et al have used their paper scam to drive the price of physical down to production levels, the marginal mines that shutter will enhance the scarcity value of the precious and it’s relative value to the tsunami of fiat.

..and Au is still held as a reserve asset by banks.. so what part of those sentiments do people not understand? 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:04 | 4053960 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

What is the Net Present Value of an ounce of gold based on the USD being worthless in 10 years?

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:06 | 4053967 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

----> > $1,250
----> < $1,250

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:14 | 4053990 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

I have several bottles of Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Johnny Walker each.  I'll be drinking my way through the collapse.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:32 | 4054033 capitallosses
capitallosses's picture

I'm ordering a home brewing kit for my bugout bag.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:59 | 4054092 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Gold fluctuates between a thousand and two thousand pieces of worthless green toilet paper per shiny ounce, a fucking steal of a price if there ever was one

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 21:52 | 4054633 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

"government..................retards......"  More genius from Faber.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:54 | 4054967 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

I think the Bloomberg hottie is Sara Eisen, who I can never watch without thinking about the strange video of her caught off guard adjusting what appears to be a sexual device under her dress while on air...


Tue, 10/15/2013 - 01:28 | 4055079 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture


OT, but Japanese PM Abe is cribbing Bernanke's "virtuous circle" bullshit, verbatim, now:

News Headline Summary

Japanese PM Abe says he'll create virtuous circle of employment and investment

Print 05:05 - Asian News - Source: Newswires

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 19:45 | 4054329 therevolutionwas
therevolutionwas's picture

growing grapes, saving empty wine bottles.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 21:04 | 4054508 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I read about dehydrated beer not long ago. Perfect for the BOB. Google it, it might be on sale by now.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 02:16 | 4055112 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Hops = the new gold standard of crops.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:43 | 4054780 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

currency and consumption


Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:26 | 4054898 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

...there is enough currency now to last a thousand years.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:41 | 4054937 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Most of it is just 1's and 0's in some computer somewhere.  The actual paper and coins are a small percentage of the total.  Gold and silver are an even smaller percentage of that (at current prices).  The collapse will be epic. 

"If you can't stand in front of it and defend it with an AR-15, you don't own it." Ann Barnhardt

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:58 | 4054969 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

WISE advice from Ann, whose website is always a must-read:



Tue, 10/15/2013 - 19:35 | 4058454 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

She's a religious fundie. I have no care for that.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:47 | 4054950 PP
PP's picture

@capitallosses your logo is great. it means true Gold and Silver.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:56 | 4054972 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

Nothin' like a frosty Doom Gloom and Boom Brewski to take the edge off the Fucking Apocalypse I must say (:

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:12 | 4054134 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

Ridgemont Reserve, Buffalo Trace, and Town Branch here :)

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:14 | 4054144 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Buffalo trace for sure!!!


 "both parties want to spend, it's just on different things,"


I have said the same for years but phrase it both will spend you blind they just have different shopping lists. 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 19:33 | 4054298 I need Another Beer
I need Another Beer's picture

I've got several gallons too!!

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:03 | 4054669 Fluorideinthewater
Fluorideinthewater's picture

Wise investment.  You can't have too much on hand!

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:26 | 4054902 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"I have several bottles of Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Johnny Walker each.  I'll be drinking my way through the collapse."


BE SOBER, SO YOU CAN FEEL AND REMEMBER.  I'm ready.  I'm ready to play my part and help my brethren.  My own brother John cries out to me in my dreams from his grave.  "I gave my life"   He was foolish, I need him now.

It breaks my heart that our own Veterans are being turned away from their memorial.  The same brave men who can take down any fucking obstacle or gov. in defense of our liberty.  Lord, let us find peace.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 19:39 | 4054317 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

That's a very interesting question; it would have to be north of $20,000/ oz.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:41 | 4054585 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Gold is criticized for providing no return on investment. Why then would someone buy a zero coupon bond? Anyone who talks negatively about gold from a valuation standpoint is either clueless or has an agenda which benefits from a lower gold price.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:20 | 4054879 chindit13
chindit13's picture

When Zerohedge first began, the crowd it drew would not have asked that question.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:46 | 4054942 akak
akak's picture

Well, since we are not that (formerly elite and erudite) crowd, please be so kind as to answer the question, which I feel is a very good and pertinent one, instead of metaphorically looking down your nose at us.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:14 | 4054988 chindit13
chindit13's picture

At what price does one buy a zero coupon bond?  What does the buyer expect its value to be at maturity?

A zero coupon bond is simply a long term TBill, but because of its tenure, it is called a bond and not a note or bill.  At any intervening period between purchase and maturity, the bond's price will reflect both the passage of time (or remaining time to maturity, which is another way of saying the same thing) and any changes in market rates for equal tenure during the holding period.

Let's say you buy a 10-year, zero coupon bond today.  The price you will pay reflects an interest rate, or a return, because at maturity (and assuming no default) the bond will reach its par value.  For example, let's say you buy today a bond that will be redeemed at $1000 in 10 years' time.  You might pay somewhere around $750 for it, which would give you a total 33% return over ten years.  The per year return might be minimal (10 year rates are pretty low today), but it still a return.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 01:14 | 4055072 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Since the Fed is now caught in an infinite loop of money printing...forever, the true value of physical gold has only one way to go due to its inverse relationship to the value of the Federal Reserve Note.

While the value 10 years from now might not be as defined as a zero coupon bond, in USD terms at least, there is much lower risk with gold since there is no counter party risk.

It is safe to say the value of the USD is going to go down relative to gold over the next 10 years because there is no feasible way for the Fed to stop printing over a sustained period of time and if they do, well, that will be good for gold too.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 01:54 | 4055094 chindit13
chindit13's picture

You may well be right, but you are making a bet.  People said the same thing in 1980.  Lots of people, especially those who sell PMs in exchange for fiat, like to put up a chart of US Debt vs. Gold Price since 2000.  Equity promoters like to put one up of the US Debt vs. the S&P since 1980.  The latter has a much better correlation, which perhaps is why equities have been an easy sell.  (Even since FDR a basket of equities has outperformed gold, not even accounting for dividends.)  Both US Debt and the S&P have gone up 16x since 1980.  Gold was running well from 2000 until the printing and debt went turbo in 2011, at which point the correlation is quite negative.  Many will call that manipulation, but for two and a half years?  Unlikely.  Remember, "record" physical buying also means "record" physical selling, and that has been in a falling market.  Something else is going on, and it is not just a simple "if A, then B follows".

I am not saying that equities will outperform over the next ten years, but just pointing out why more people might favor equities over PMs.  Everybody takes what he wants from history, and then projects it into some uncertain future.  Right or wrong, a majority now see that future in terms of equities and London real estate.  Holders of any other asset have to hope that others move to their way of thinking.

I even can see a scenario where bonds continue to outperform.  (Considering it as a possibility is different from betting on it;  I'm just presenting a scenario.)  Pension shortfalls means the population is going to lose purchasing power.  That's deflationary.  Excess government debt is eventually going to be addressed via pension capture, increased taxes, and a special tax on bank deposits.  All of those would be deflationary, too.  Populations in advanced countries are, or will be, in decline over the next fifty years, just as Japan and Italy are now (save for Italy's wave of illegal immigrants).  That is also deflationary.  Then there is the high personal debt levels in countries as diverse as the UK and Thailand, which means future purchasing power is limited, which adds to deflationary pressures.  That deflation, if it comes, might well be bond positive (as it has been in Japan for two decades, despite massive deficits and a savings rate that dropped from 17% in 1989 to 0% today).

Nothing is "written".  There are lots of variables and their interactions are not consistent, much less understood at any one moment in time.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 19:34 | 4058448 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, people made the same bet in 1971. 1980 was an entirely other story.

This can't be repeated. To attempt it would crush the US economy permanently. I dare them.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 09:00 | 4055433 Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture

Its not a "return" if the money devalues in the meantime, leaving you with less buying power than you started with. 


Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:43 | 4054030 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

"It's a slam dunk buy at 1250."


How dare you suggest buying low and holding...      /sarc for the down arrows

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 21:23 | 4054561 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Love Mr. Doom Gloom but gold has been nothing but a nightmare. Don't see why that will change at $1250. Hope it does but..

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:12 | 4054694 Peachfuzz
Peachfuzz's picture

It could change overnight at 1250 because on C.B. buy orders carrying the last of the phyz out the back door at the lbma. Remember there are powerful players in your corner with lots of paper money and generational levels of patience. They will allow the west to tie a nice long lead on the noose. In order for repricing of gold, gold must be set free of manipulative paper games, once the vaults are empty, paper goes to zero and phyz goes to the moon.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:38 | 4054768 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $55,000

Gold will zoom when the sellers of physical stop selling.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:23 | 4055010 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Everything everyone says might be true, but I wonder why the so-called paper price was perfectly representative in the long move from $255 to $1925?  Should those who bought merely "paper" at those low prices be somehow prohibited from selling, with instead just a big "thank you" for having been the driving force behind that move?

Lots of stuff remains a puzzle.  When a large seller hits a 2-3% range of bids, people scream that no real seller would sell like that, yet the same people see absolutely nothing wrong with holding from $48 Ag and $1925 Au for anywhere from a 30-60% drubbing and a substantial loss of purchasing power (where one bought is for ego purposes only; maintaining purchasing power is the gauge).  As it has turned out, all of those size sellers who took out a 2-3% range of bids saved themselves a bundle, and all of those who have held from much higher levels have lost purchasing power,  The ones who bought at $255 and the ones who bought a $1925 have lost the exact same amount of purchasing power.  At ~$1270, we're a pittance from a multi-year low, so virtually all of those size sellers are looking good.  Some might argue that those sellers will never be able to buy back, but as the Zen Master says, "We'll see".

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:35 | 4055032 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



It is always nice to be in a dialog with you, chindit13.

I am holding gold with a very long-term view (yes, I bought some gold at $1700 +, but that's OK *).  IMO, physical gold is way-undervalued (with so many paper claims upon each physical ounce) and eventually the paper gold holders will not get what they believe they own: gold!

Gold also has value as an insurance hedge against financial mismanagement...

A big puzzle indeed.  But, FOFOA explains this far better than I can.  (long reading...)

* Yes, I have the receipts from purchases over $1400.  Can't seem to find them for all that gold I purchased before 2002 though, darn it!

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 04:36 | 4055186 Pareto
Pareto's picture

+1 Brilliant.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:45 | 4058267 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

All pales in comparison to the future price of 3000 to 7000 per ounce AND for those who are smart enough to hedge ounces by re-selling puts for slv, agq & gld there is no loss short-term in paper price while HOLDING real ounces.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 04:12 | 4055170 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Why has it been a nightmare, it just sits there and acts all shiny like, regardless of what stupid people do. If you are trying to trade gold you really, really, really don't get it.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:43 | 4058259 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The entire past 12 years has been a buying price gift compared to the future prices over 3000/oz and then no price when paper isn't money anymore.

You're thinking too short-term. The lower it goes the happier I am.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:55 | 4055054 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

What would Genghis do?

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:42 | 4058256 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

He would get gold - and pay the iron price.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:42 | 4058250 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

and sure enough it bounced right off 1254 usd.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:37 | 4053881 max2205
max2205's picture

The power of herd markets is incredible

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:40 | 4053887 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Simon Black just Tweeted:  Marc, you wouldn't know a safe haven if you tripped over it.  Come down to nice, safe Paraguay and look at the wonderful banks.  If we have some time I'll also show you how to kill a person with a Shrimp Fork.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:44 | 4053913 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Paraguay?  WTF?  I thought he was with Francis_Sawyer at the Eurpean "call center" in Gstaad?

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:51 | 4053931 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

ZH humor at its finest.

+ 1

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:46 | 4053918 Teddy Tenpole
Teddy Tenpole's picture




mmmmm, shrimp.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:50 | 4053928 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

In sum: Gold, bitchez!

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:10 | 4054682 prains
prains's picture

pro tip: keep some steady 140 beats per minute along with the gold, everyday sometimes twice a day if the wife will let you, gold is a very "shelter in place" hedge.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:57 | 4053950 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Get it straight: It's a 1000 acre organic farm*, several hours south of Santiago.  If I had the bucks, I'd go there.

* Manned by local workers.  Guarded by select group of Brothers in Arms.  With sensors, tech, HW, etc.

I recall the ZH blogger "Otto Skorzeny" starting to give positive comments about Simon in the weeks prior to him leaving ZH.  Probably having some "Schnapps und Pilsener" with some son/gradson of a former OberSturmbandFuehrer.  ;-)

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:28 | 4054742 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

Marc is in a safe haven. Thailand hasn't been conquered by invaders for a thousand + years. He must be sitting on a buttload of Au so why is so pissed?

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:34 | 4054919 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Actually, the Chinese conquered Thailand.  Just because someone uses a name like "Shinawatra" or "Hongsakul" or "Chearavanont" doesn't mean they have a drop of Thai blood in them.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:17 | 4054999 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

You may be right...just wondering why the Chinese would ever give it back? Maybe the ladyboys drove them out

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:26 | 4055016 chindit13
chindit13's picture

"Thailand" supposedly means land of the free.  How ironic, since just about anyone with substantial means in Thailand is Chinese, and the "free" Thais work for them.  Heck, one of the wealthiest "Thais", and one of the country's largest employers, is a Caucasian American immigrant.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 07:52 | 4055302 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The only pure-blooded Chinese you will find in Thailand are on a tour bus being ushered around by a guide. There is a large Chinese influence in Thailand, but it is through mixed blood-lines that have been established for a long time. So, Chinese-Thai hi-so families do run the show, but they are just that, Chinese-Thai, not pure Chinese. Much like the Indians that have been in Thailand. Most think they are immigrants, although they have been there for decades and have raised multi-generational families. 

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 07:44 | 4055292 kralizec
kralizec's picture

(In my best Coach Mora voice)...

Safe haven?  SAFE HAVEN?!

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:39 | 4053888 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The deal looks like a can kick to January.  The GOP is essentially giving up 3 months of Sequester and holding the level where it is (the Dems wanted an increase).

Come January, it's on again.

As for where to hide, there is no sanctuary from oil scarcity.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:44 | 4053910 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

No worries. I saw a chart of the eternal growth model for human society.

Growth of everything just ballooned off into exponentials. Including oil production.

We should be fine, as long as money production can keep up.



(Do I really need to add a /sarc?)

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:10 | 4053985 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Or as long as we can keep making those fancy, multicolored charts.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:31 | 4054728 Lore
Lore's picture

re: "Growth of everything just ballooned off into exponentials. Including oil production."

Yes, that does appear to be the Mainstream Media Pushed Narrative of the Week (MMPNW). Today's local newspaper had a feature about America's energy-cornucopian future. 

Interestingly, on the very same page, there was a smaller piece about how the "Global Warming" narrative is completely shot.  Maybe the globalist psychopaths are FINALLY letting that one go and gearing up to push some new snake oil. 

Back to the video: someone should tell Keene that he's all grown up now, and doesn't need to wear the bow tie for his mommy anymore.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:36 | 4058228 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

NO, only the idiots who erase all incoming feeds of evidence of global warming say there's no global warming. For the rest of us who have eyeballs, can read thermometers, can see the infrared satellites of the globe, we all know there is global warming. Denying it is like denying clouds, gravity or stars. It's utter fucking insanity.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 21:09 | 4054519 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Not worried. I'll continue to hide behind the curtain made of green carpet on the far corner of Mother's basement.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:34 | 4058216 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

there is: growing your own food, making things from wood, making biodiesel from veg oil & using only diesel, not gasoline, engines for anything, plus solar. Solar's crap but it's better than nothing. We lived before without oil and we can do it again.

Besides, with nuclear energy & the ability to transmit power wirelessly we don't even need a hard-line grid for mobile power much less fixed locations of consumption. We don't do this today but nothing's stopping us but convention. The technology is well understood, simply induction loops to transmit. Also microwave transmitters & receivers.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:44 | 4053899 MichiganMilitiaMan
MichiganMilitiaMan's picture

I agree.

The retards of economic growth: Pelosi, Reid, Boehner, McConnell, Obama, Lew, Bernanke.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:47 | 4054796 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

don't sell them short

they're retards of many other subjects

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:41 | 4053901 LongSilverJohn
LongSilverJohn's picture

Yes, I am diversified into gold eagles, maple leafs, gold bars and silver eagles... 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:44 | 4053905 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Mark is wrong.  There is a chain of banks that are perfectly safe:  Bank of Certa & Sealy.

No fees, haircuts or confiscations.  Private, discreet.  Funds available 24/7.  No IRS or FATCA issues.

Clients who deposit at Bank of Certa & Sealy typically "earn" a 25% ROI, as they spend 25% less than they would with "plastic" form other banks.  Deposit early, deposit often.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:58 | 4053948 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Unless and until they issue new certificates for legal tender.

The new one may even have a 'use by' date.

Old Sealy/Serta deposits might be exchanged for new, at a rate to be determined, for a short period of time.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:14 | 4053984 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Safer in your Serta than in a bank and your mattress doesn't say "$11 please" every month just for holding it.

The Gold protects you from radiation from below the bed, and the Silver kills bacteria.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:27 | 4054020 seek
seek's picture

Physical cash - can be devalued in hyperinflationary collapse, can be swapped for new notes (aka "red dollars'). It's at risk.

Physical gold - can't be devalued, but can be made illiquid (bans on sale, confiscation if found, etc.)

Banks - depositor haircuts, capital/withdrawl controls, insolvency.

Bonds/Equities - Ha! Anyone on this site doesn't need their safety explained.

Mark is mostly right. I think if you had an RV filled with food, fuel and solar and a good place to hide you're probably as close to a safe haven as you can get, short of owning land with an undocumented cave system or something equally impossible to obtain.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:41 | 4054198 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> if you had an RV filled with food,

An RV can make a pretty decent off grid, moveable survival shack.  That's one reason I'm loath to take the loss and dump mine. Besides, when you're in the dog house it's a pretty cool dog house.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 19:49 | 4054336 ILLILLILLI
ILLILLILLI's picture

This will get you through:

Food production, storage and processing a nice rural setting.




Mon, 10/14/2013 - 21:51 | 4054638 yofish
yofish's picture

An RV is completely indefensible. Plowing about in a land whale trying to find a comfortable place during end times will most certainly end your time quickly. A floating mini Wally World chockablock full of beer, weapons (maybe pussy) and petrol; what better target? Best of luck to you but I'm afraid your plan only 'sounds' good. Stay home, network (god I hate that fucking word) and augment what you have. When you travel you can only be enfilade. Your land whale is not some overwhelming opposing force of Collin Powell's but a mere turkey, or, better, a dodo.    

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:30 | 4054908 seek
seek's picture

Fixed locations are indefensible as well. I have a bullet-resistant BOL well equipped with goodies to help with my safety. It's no safe haven either.

The point of the land whale is it's mobile and a wise person could relocate ahead of trouble. Certainly when SHTF, anything on the road is toast.

There are no safe havens, but the less visible you are, the safer you will be. I'm not convinced an RV hidden in bumfuck egypt is any better or worse off than a home in town. I am convinced that usable goods in hand will be worth more than any financial instrument, including my precious, which was the key point of my argument moreso than where they were consumed.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:44 | 4054944 banzai401
banzai401's picture

So many poor arguments here, and talk about mobility and RV's with the same breath, and pray tell where in the fucking hell are you going to get fuel?

MOBILITY is crucial

Belonging to a pack of wolves is crucial, the bigger and meaner your pack the more likely you will sleep next to a woman and not a dog.

Again,... smart guys leave early, so they can 'live' and then return and buy the spoils for penny's on the dollar, long after the war is over.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:51 | 4054961 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

Holy Shit...where's Viggo Mortensen when we need him?

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:54 | 4055051 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture


Tue, 10/15/2013 - 07:53 | 4055309 Keyser
Keyser's picture

These guys are talking about defensibility, bullets, beans, babes and booze. Me, I'd rather go someplace safe than to stick it out in zombie land when the SHTF. 


Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:50 | 4054954 yofish
yofish's picture

You make some good points; I'm with you on usable goods on hand. My bias is to be with the like-minded and concerted. Location certianly figures in the equation. I live in AK, driving anywere to escape anything could only be of momentary utility - there are so few roads - and the all end with finality.  

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 04:15 | 4055173 freedogger
freedogger's picture

Plain white cargo van, insulated and fully converted to a stealth camper.  I Park pretty much any where I want, no camping fees, no one pays any attention to it. 

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 04:28 | 4055184 Pareto
Pareto's picture

.......undocumented cave system........what a great...gotta go

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:26 | 4058181 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Make that an RV which has a hull, sails & engine and we're in.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:44 | 4053906 LongSilverJohn
LongSilverJohn's picture

... and did I mention .45 acp?

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:52 | 4053937 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

... 9 mm, 7.62 x 39....

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:14 | 4054138 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

12 Ga, double ought buck.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 20:51 | 4054476 joego1
joego1's picture

12 Ga. is on the list. Used to be .22 was on the list but hard to get ammo. A good modern pellet gun is nice to have as well as a crossbow.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:25 | 4054724 yofish
yofish's picture

If you live near a source of game, stick with the 22. A cross bow is a one shot deal. Better 10 rnds (in the near future I believe all arms will be limited as to capacity and we should work for, and support 10, because of history) semi-auto any day over a cross bow. A high velocity pellet gun is the same story - one shot -unless you want to pay too much. This ammo insanity will subside. The arms manufacturers will sorely miss Obama, the guy that made WWIII for the trade. My rube friends will never admit how easily they have been played by the gun cos. Already here in AK, the bastion of right-wing shit-for-brains-stupid fucks, prices are coming down. 

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:47 | 4055040 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture

Ak. Thank you and keep inputting, you'll get many downvotes but that's because of your time zone. You are heard.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:19 | 4058155 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

As long as you're good you can reload the bolts. Crossbows, bows & knives have infinite reloads until you destroy them which is only if you're a tard or have a long, long run with the blades, bolts & arrows.

Semi-autos jam.

Knives, arrows & bolts - nope.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:44 | 4053911 reader2010
reader2010's picture

"Knowledge is not for knowing: knowledge is for cutting." - Foucault

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:46 | 4053914 Teddy Tenpole
Teddy Tenpole's picture



Totally useless advice.  Hey Marc, go back to your Thai Girly Boys.  doomer douche bag

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:51 | 4053941 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Yes this comment on the other hand is very useful.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 20:57 | 4054490 Sedaeng
Sedaeng's picture

3 weeks 3 days old account...

trolls are growing in numbers

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:50 | 4054809 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

amazing data backing that one

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:51 | 4054957 akak
akak's picture

Teddy, I see that you have once again embraced your inner asswipe.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:01 | 4054977 Teddy Tenpole
Teddy Tenpole's picture



Haha, just callin' em as I see em.  Betcha start making money as you keep following me sround and reading my posts ;)  All the best!

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 16:51 | 4053940 Purple headed w...
Purple headed warrior's picture

A nice bit of Faber to brighten your day. Stay Faber positive, buy gold and a gun.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:06 | 4053968 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If you live in Thailand you shouldn't talk about your guns in public.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:01 | 4054108 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Correct, you just pay the boys in brown to do your dirty work for you. 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 19:25 | 4054276 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

He doesn't need guns in Chiang Mai; their 'demographics' are sound and they have community.

No ullulating insane Moslems, no EBT-swipin' gangstas, no oil to take, no industry to foul the beautiful country.

No cracker bible-thumpers, most people working, fresh food, nothing for the U.S. or anyone else to pillage in the name of some misbegotten spread of Democracy.

I think he is very well-situated up there.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 21:38 | 4054594 banzai401
banzai401's picture

Excellent point, ... that begs the question,... given that FABER already has a 'safe haven', why is he telling the MSM masses in the USA that these 'john galt gulches' don't exist?

Me thinks that the MSM created him to be the loyal opposition, and now that its time to flee the USA, they have him saying its hopeless, ... bullshit, ...its never hopeless and the world is full of places that you describe, ... that are beautiful, and have community, sweet people, and all work and contribute and care, ... shit any Buddhist country is such,...

There are 2 kinds of 'safe haven' one for your ass, and the other your assets.

WRT to asset haven's there are only 3 'AAA' now, ...SGD, CHF, and NORWAY? All other are shit.

WRT to ASS havens the world is full of them, I would go as far to say that virtually anywhere but the USA, ... but the tropics is nice, and places where old guys can be with young women is even better.


FABER can't say it on TV, but he does say the USD will go up before down, and thus that's why smart people keep their money in chinese banks in HKD ( tied to USD ), and they know the instant the USD dies, their money becomes CNY, and that my friends is a 'safe haven' for your assets. FABER of course is a WHORE to the MSM, cuz the fame sells his pathetic newsletters, so he can't tell the truth.

Obviously the message this week that the MSM PTB wants is "Move along, ... all is hopeless, just keep your money in the USA bank,... there is no where to go", ... Bull fucking shit.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:11 | 4054687 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"given that FABER already has a 'safe haven', why is he telling the MSM masses in the USA that these 'john galt gulches' don't exist?"

Perhaps because he is a man interested in telling the truth.
There are people who actually get a charge from such a thing.

When you've forgotten that such people exist, you will have to work extra hard on the discernment between truth and lies, it will have to be your exercise alone, and it will become more important as we go.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 04:42 | 4055179 Pareto
Pareto's picture

hey listen ass clown.  STFU about Faber et al being MSM whores.  Its like 10 fucking times already!  Are you fucking that full of yourself that you have to repeat the same stupid shit over and over and over as a reaffirmation that you really are that retarded?  Fucking Geeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzuuuuuussssss.  Smarten the fuck up.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 08:11 | 4055332 Keyser
Keyser's picture

"smart people keep their money in chinese banks in HKD ( tied to USD ), and they know the instant the USD dies, their money becomes CNY,"

And some people live in a fool's paradise. 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:03 | 4053963 Iam Yue2
Iam Yue2's picture

Marc Faber warns there is no heaven.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:04 | 4053970 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

With all due to respect to Mister Faber, I have to tell you something.

Mr. Faber is predicting Doom and a 20% correction for over 2 years now. Whenever i watch a video of him, he is praising the doom. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

In case for the Gold tards... if Markets begin to eradicate everyone will sell gold to compensate for their losses in their portfolios. Gold will not save you.

I would rather invest in weaponry and booze. Just watch escape from la and tell me, would a few gold coins safe you?

Hell naw! LMAO - who bought at 1800?

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:17 | 4053991 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Bravo for doom.... but you gotta admit that capitalism shit was a great time while it lasted ....hookers and blow biz was smokin' ! 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:36 | 4054918 banzai401
banzai401's picture

Cocaine will most likely be more valuable than GOLD.

Hell OPIUM has been called BLACK-GOLD for 5,000+ years for a reason, historically a pound of Opium has always been worth more than a pound of GOLD.

Hookers of course always go down in price, as that's something everybody has, and all will offer,.. but good high quality drugs will be invaluable.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:08 | 4058116 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

True. Gold doesn't instantly tell your brain to go get more/ do more - cocaine does.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:39 | 4054047 auric1234
auric1234's picture

if Markets begin to eradicate everyone will sell gold to compensate for their losses in their portfolios. Gold will not save you.

Real gold is not liquid enough to be sold in order to meet a margin call.

So, I guess you're talking about paper gold.

Which we don't care about that much, do we?


Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:31 | 4054913 banzai401
banzai401's picture

I'm glad you mentioned that,

Not enough people state the obvious here about deflationary powers.

Let's say that you have a village of idiots, all with a pound of gold and no food, ... guess how much your food will cost?

Soon the guy with FOOD will have all the GOLD, ... then what?

It's best to get out of 'dodge' during a civil-war, if you stay and fight then boxes of 45acp,223rem,and 308win will be worth more than GOLD.

But what are you going to eat after 2-3 weeks? DOG? Or canned food? What about sex? Is your old lady going to want to romp in the hay, when she hasn't bathed in a month?

Guy's with brains, get their family OUT before the bullets start flying.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 09:11 | 4055468 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Dirty magazines, fertile imagination and a hand work fine in the absence of a regular lay. Plus, there are no performance standards. Guns, bullets and food are much more important.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:44 | 4054058 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

"Gold will not save you."

But it WILL perform better than any other asset because it is in most limited supply and highest stable, widespread demand profile.  HE WHO LOSES LEAST, WINS.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:17 | 4054150 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

Yes, weaponry, booze, gold, silver, ammo, and food.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:36 | 4055033 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture

I shall quote you just for the feces and laughs when gold hits 3k clown buxs.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 18:04 | 4058109 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I wish I had. I would have had 1 or 2 more ounces of gold & some cash from using GLD puts or agq puts from that price level.
Just didn't have the cash. I needed cash so sadly I sold it. I'd rather have kept the ounces but it went to a good cause - food for me.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:10 | 4053976 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

There goes that Marc Faber telling it like it is again.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:23 | 4054012 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Faber says own gold, stocks, bonds and real estate. If that is telling it like it is, I guess I will be okay.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:42 | 4054782 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Diversification!  Might add some survival supplies and CA$H too.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:08 | 4053977 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

No where to hide, no where to run,we are well and truely fucked............................on top of all this lost my gold yesterday.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:11 | 4053986 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Was the boating trip fun otherwise? 

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:18 | 4053997 deflator
deflator's picture

He had an accident.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:20 | 4054005 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

I always thought the best safe haven was in the backyard in a coffee can, but apparently Mark forgot that one.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:26 | 4054165 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

One word:


Mon, 10/14/2013 - 19:19 | 4054271 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

High Security Vaulted Suppositories 

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 17:51 | 4058058 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

apparently you forgot about metal detectors that can discern aluminum, iron, gold, silver to 10 feet deep. Maybe more.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:25 | 4054013 European American
European American's picture

Only one Safe Place...

"Yogasta Kuru Karmani"

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:27 | 4054018 SMC
SMC's picture

The best safe haven is one's own intellect and abilities.

Let the parasites and cockroaches inherit the world they deserve.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 03:13 | 4055143 Element
Element's picture

Well, that and Max's blown Ford Hardtop Interceptor.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:31 | 4054034 jonytk
jonytk's picture

May i say: !!

While the US$ will not collapse until 2029, bitcoins will skyrocket.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:26 | 4054726 banzai401
banzai401's picture

In 2029 both USD and Bitcoins will be long gone.

USD will be taught to school children, but the Bitcoin will be likened to a "Ponzi" Tulip Mania.

One in the hand, has always bested four in the bush in all human history.

Perhaps if Bitcoin can obtain Nukes and become another 'Israel', it can become a 'reserve currency', but on that thought we will see pig's first fly out of Obama's arse.

2020 is a good bet, about 2007 was when the world announced its need to go off the USD, and then it would take 15 years for the world to slowly divest, China has hyper accumulated gold since then so maybe 10 years? Now is 2013, ... the end if very near.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:07 | 4054859 Yenbot
Yenbot's picture


2-bit Coin?

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:27 | 4055018 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

So further down the thread you're trashing Faber for shitty predictions and then you make shitty predictions. Uncanny.

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 04:19 | 4055176 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Move on Iridium - its the same pseudo bullshit - i stopped reading when he claimed to "pull the curtain on jimmy rogers".

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 16:35 | 4057677 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Actually odds of bitcoin being in use 10 years from now is less than 1 in 100000. It's worthless to me. I can't barter in a back alley with it. I can't use it without computers. I can't use it for anything important for survival. I need money that exists off-grid and requires zero electricity or networks.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 17:35 | 4054041 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Mark tells ya nothin' is truely safe... and half of ZH disses him.


He is just tellin' it like it is, folks.


It won't be mad max or escape from la, but it will be Great Depression 2015 style....

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 18:07 | 4054129 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Mad Max was not fiction.  It was a documentary.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:16 | 4054699 banzai401
banzai401's picture

MAD MAX is 100% correct,

the guy who wrote the script and directed the first 2 movies was a medical doctor, ... and an expert on this scenario,...

"only those mobile enough survived"...

"They built a nation on a foundation of sand"...

But the reality is and this is where I 100% agree with FABER

"NOBODY ever survived a civil war by staying, smart men always leave, and 10 years later return and buy all for penny's on the dollar"

Mad-Max is fine, but even better is going now to your 'john galt gulch', and then 10+ years we Galts return to America and rebuild, but until then let the JUDGES/LAWYERS go 100% cannibal on themselves...

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:46 | 4054790 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

OK, I'll buy that.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 22:57 | 4054827 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Me two.

Mon, 10/14/2013 - 23:48 | 4054948 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

Me three

Tue, 10/15/2013 - 00:29 | 4055025 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture


Tue, 10/15/2013 - 01:58 | 4055098 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Those who have not learned by now how to be content in whatever state of life they are in, will not be content in whatever state of life they will be in.

Gold will not save you when guns are what is needed. Guns cannot save where gold is needed.

And neither will help when only Divine intervention by God can save.

The coming judgment of America is something that must happen.

As the philosopher Alexis de Tocqueville once said...

"America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great".

And, America as a whole has ceased to be good.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!