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As House Republicans Fail To Get The Needed Votes, A Reminder Of What Goldman Warned
Update: Sure enough, NO HOUSE VOTE TONIGHT ON FISCAL IMPASSE PLAN, LAWMAKER SAYS
In a repeat of the Sequester farce, in which Boehner was unable to even get the needed votes to pass the House Republicans' version of their own bill, the debt ceiling impasse is becoming a sequester sequel deja vu when McConnell and Joe Biden had to hammer out a deal over the impotent political corpse of John Boehner. The reason, as various beltway journalists report, in this case the NRO, that House Republicans are now set to postpone tonight’s vote on their plan to end the fiscal impasse is that "The votes aren’t there," says a leadership aide. "We’ve been amending the bill all day, but we’ve been unable to get people around this strategy." As the NRO's Robert Costa adds, this development leaves Speaker John Boehner with few options as Thursday’s debt-ceiling deadline nears, and it throws the action back toward the Senate, which has been working on a bipartisan package.
The tension started off earlier in the afternoon, when the conservative outfit Heritage Action said it opposed the measure, and rank-and-file lawmakers normally supportive of leadership expressed alarm that they had shut down the government and would get nothing for it except a punitive measure hurting their own staff’s healthcare, according to GOP chiefs of staff.
The Republican-controlled House will vote Tueday night on a plan to reopen the federal government and avoid a first-ever default on the nation’s debt, only two days before the government exhausts its ability to borrow money.
But it was far from clear whether the Republican proposal, if approved, could attract enough support in the Democratic-controlled Senate to end Washington’s political crisis. The plan contained several provisions that Democrats have strongly opposed.
* * *
Even the inklings of a House proposal that emerged earlier Tuesday drew immediate condemnation from Democrats, primarily because the plan would include significant changes to President Obama’s signature health-care law. Unlike the Senate proposal, the House plan originally included a two-year repeal of a medical device tax and a provision eliminating the employer health-care contribution for members of Congress and White House officials.
Later Tuesday, House Republicans regrouped around the new version of their bill, which dropped the medical device tax provision, and officials said they would bring it the House floor tonight. The new proposal was also unlikely to win bipartisan support, in part because it would fund federal agencies only through Dec. 15, creating the threat of another government shutdown just before Christmas. But it could serve as a framework for further negotiations.
Which brings us to what Goldman, so far accurately, predicted would happen earlier today: namely a delay which pushes the US beyond the symbolic October 17 X-Date, loudly bandied about by fearmongers such as Jack Lew as a the drop dead date, when in reality the X-Date when the US truly runs out of cash, is a range between October 22 and November 1, something the GOP is well aware of.
Quote Goldman:
A deal could still be enacted by October 17, but there are reasons to think it could go a little longer. First, although Congress has taken the October 17 deadline surprisingly seriously, the Treasury will still have funds after that date, and Congress knows this. Second, if the House amends the Senate bill or passes its own instead, this will delay enactment.
It now seems that the House can not even pass its own bill, which means the GOP will have to hammer something out between the Senate and the House versions, steamrolling over Boehner once again.
Third, the Senate could present a procedural obstacle if even one member objects, since consideration can take as long as five days in that chamber. Fourth, if the House is eventually forced to take the Senate plan for a lack of viable alternative, Republican leaders are unlikely to want to hold that vote until the deadline, if not later. There is still a chance Congress will manage to get the debt limit raised by October 17, but a resolution later this week or even this coming weekend also appears possible.
In other words, as a result of today's most recent fiasco, it appears virtually assured that no deal will be hammered in the next 30 or so hours before the first X-Date, and the US will enter the cross into the dreaded X-Date time horizon. The only two questions then are i) who will negotiate the final deal and what will it look like, and ii) when will this take place. Because once the October 17 deadline crosses, which immediately removes the impetus for action, it is likely that the House will once again stall as long as possible, this time making the November 1 Social Security payout deadline the truly drop dead one, beyond which the US will indeed default unless there is some concrete deal on the table.
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You mean this whole debate and the supposed urgency of the "crisis" is fake? Well kick me in the balls and call me Shirley.
You got to know when to hold 'um
Know when to fold 'em
what now?
November 1st
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GSXbgfKFWg
Alex, I'll take jerkoffs for $500 please.....
Ohh, you've hit the daily debt double.
.
...and you know what that means! You can wager at least double the amount of the other players' money, with the option to leverage it up to twenty times that amount!
Perfect summing up.
.
A brief intermission, followed by the next act.
Thanks
I hear the bartender by door 3 is pouring doubles of the good stuff for house single prices if you tip him right.
squidvision
*kick* shirley
The treat of default is fake unless Obama decides to do it. The 14th ammendment states clearly that the debt MUST be serviced and everyone knows there are ten times the required cash flow coming in to cover it. If Obama forces the house to capitulate he will have effectively ended the constitutionally gauranteed seperation of powers, putting virtually all power of spending under the control of the POTUS. Simply Obama's threat to default is unconstitutional.
At least the NSA isn't unconstitutionally making a record of our conversation about Obama's unconstitutional usurpation of power from Congress.
Re: At least the NSA isn't unconstitutionally making a record of our conversation about Obama's unconstitutional usurpation of power from Congress.
Yeah, I wish the "patriots" would get as worked up about unfunding unconstitutional Big-Gov programs like the NSA.
Oh well, some unconstitutional Big-Gov programs are more unconsonstitutional than others, I suppose.
.
You'd think that, at the very least, the NSA would be self-funding just from insider trading.
Cue patriotic video of flag waving in the slow-motion wind with superimposed psychologically reassuring "A Global Force For Good®" reinforcement message.
Agreed. Its bad enough we are losing our few remaining rights, but virtually every part of the constitution, especially those areas designed specifically to restrain our federal government, are under simultaneous attack.
First off, I'm not American.
I thought the whole idea of the Constitution was to limit government
I also thought that the Constitution was the supreme law
How can this be attacked?
Oh, I forgot, bought and paid for judges.
Greedy, self-interested, corrupt and bought for 'lawmakers'
We don't need mor laws, in fact we need less, and we need to see them being applied equally.
Im amazed so many people agree with you that Obama has the power under the 14th to pay the debt, because i think thats exactly how this is going to end. He's just gonna announce that the bills will be paid because he has the power.
I guarentee you that 99% of those who upvoted you will be screaming bloody murder over the usurpation of power by that dictator Obama.
And sadly, congress through its own stupidity will cede one more power to the executive.
It is his job to pay those bills and he has the cash to do it, he just doesn't have the power to BORROW the money by raising the debt limit to pay them. This what so many have been saying, the only way we default is if he decides to pay other bills rather than the debt and the constitution's 14th ammendment says he has no discretion in that regard. He must pay the debt BEFORE he pays anything else. That has nothing to do with the debt ceiling extention. What he is doing is trying to use the threat of default to force republicans to capitulate. He is betting, regardless of the constitutionality of his actions, that the press will place the blame on the republicans.
His 'job' is to do what his owners tell him to do. Period
Yes its all fake.
They are merely wrangling over what departments to keep operating without moar debt issuance. The WaPo had to do backflips in order to give Rand even two Pinocchio's...lol.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/11/rand-pauls-claim-that-there-is-no-reason-for-us-to-default/
The "obligations" the lefties (errr, statists of all stripes) are freaking out about are current spending levels, not debt servicing.
Its all a fucking lie.
Surprised? ;-)
No doubt some of this circus is about funding bloated government in general. But I maintain that the primary driving force behind it all -- and the reason the Red Team will cave -- is the free shit for bankers Party. By which I mean 90+% of both political parties who do what the bankers tell them. The bankers want the dough. The rest is noise.
Baseline budgeting assures the COST OF government never goes down, irrespective of tax reciepts, thus the need for unicorn farts out of nowhere, meaning moar debt that can never be repaid...ever...the expotential growth of it.
Seems insane but for now you and I are pulling this piece of shit Forward! by submitting to their taxation scheme.
I'm agreeing with you to a point, the Red Team is government as well, they will cave but a new day will dawn where everyone see's they've been told a lie. They really didn't need the taxes collected, they can just print us all into prosperity, can't they?
So, in this new paradigm, taxes are really something else.
Not a functional tool for governmental operations at all but something more sinister for the eiltes to play with. If the Morgue gets 500 billion dropped in their lap for the con to continue, what do they care if 50 billion is set aside for "rogue trader contingencies"? Likewise, if baby daddy zips & unzips as fast as he can, its no concern of his. As well as CEO's counterfieting stock options as wage payment, the unicorn never runs out of gas in this scenario.
Its just a control mechanism against me & you, stupidly thinking we are better than them ;-)
Once it goes past Oct 17th, Obama won't be able to put the republicans over the barrel. In fact the republicans will have more leverage than Obama.
Hi Shirley.
Where do you want to meet for the other part?
I couldn't resist.
Pelosi's hair is the news! Seen from the right it's rather a rather simple do, but then, on the left side view, something Trump comes, and it's frosted.
Speaking of Trump.. he's been quiet all this time. Imagine he'd be President now. LOL
2 more weeks of this shit?
yeah. it seems like they are going to turn the lights off for a few minutes and let the free shit army crash into each other and the walls in the dark for a few mins before begging for someone to turn the lights back on.
Planning to ride it out in a cabin up North might be a good idea...
Stand firm, fuckers!
Relax. Republicans are trying to write a free Ferrari for all GOP members into the bill and that seems to be a bone of contention. They may have to compromise on a free Range Rover. Life sucks.
idiot
no, I'm an asshole and won't settle for less
Way to stand firm with oldwood.
I concur, my mistake.
I feel new highs by Friday...
Good pot?
Maybe their hoping for Ison and its accompanying debris field to spare them the difficult decisions
US has ample inflow of monies. This is just a dog & pony show for the masses.
who cares about "inflows" when the Fed can give endless enemas
Exactly.
Seems like Tyler(s) would have pointed that out by now.
Yeah, and plenty of outflows too.
Don't think so 1D or so linear. It's a complex and dynamic system (with non-linear feedback loops), more aking to a nuclear reactor than a thermostat.
The core (melt-down) concern is the Market CONfidence. If this goes non-linear (in a highly leveraged Derivatives market), the outcome is not easily predicted, and not "pretty". The Dollar could get trashed in a hurry, interest rates would rise and cause a feedback loop, etc, etc.
Make sure you got plenty of stuff on hand to last some weeks or more: Cash, PM, Water, Food, Gas, Friends, etc.
The House has passsed numerous bills to try to find a way past this crisis. What they have found is that the only bill the Senate and the president will sign from the House is one where they give Obama full dictatorial authority.
Care to share the link? I have heard nothing of the sort.
Do some research and then post the link yourself.
Referring to your dictatorial authority statement, not the bills that are sitting on Harry Reids desk. Again, that link. There is a reason why I specifically need that information.
Why would any link convince you if you have not had your eyes opened by now?
Why not just be helpful?
Why not just be helpful?
OK, I'll bite, but why people are unable to find this on their own is beyond me. It's really quite easy.
Here is a list of appropriation bills passed by the House on US Senate calendar from last years 112th congress and this years 113th congress. Draw your own conclusions ... but pretty clear the Senate is doing nothing.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CCAL-113scal-2013-10-16/html/CCAL-113scal-2013-10-16-pt10.htm
I think they have 11 or 12 bills out of congress in the last few weeks and not a single one has been brought to the floor of the senate for even debate much less a vote. Conservative were first asking for Obamacare defunding and the last bill that passed that even mentions Obamacare ask to delay the MANDATORY aspects of Obamacare, not defund or kill but simply allow it to go forward but with the same exception provided large businesses. Actually I do thinlk that the last one passed did include a requirement that POTUS had to live by the same Obamcare rules as everyonbe else. All crazy talk, over the top demands that obviously no rational person could even CONSIDER negotiating or talking about. This whole thing is bulshit. Obama and the democrats want absolute control. Fuck Bipartisanship. If they could pass every bill without a single republican vote they would be so happy. As per Obamacare.
These posters know this Oldwood ... they are just pulling the same old political tactic bs.
Yes, but conservatives have been telling themselves that this stupidity would have to end because everyone would SEE what a fucking mess it was. We said that same thing when Obama won the presidency, even myself thinking that maybe this was exactly what the country needed to wake the fuck up. But they are awake. They see the disaster, and all they care about is squeezing another day or week or year out of it. Its the same as it ever has been but I kept this shit to myself for too many years. It needs to be said again and again and again. Silence hasn't fixed anything.
There will be no compromise.Obama demands full defeat for conservatives and no prisoners will be taken. This is about establishing absolute power. No resistance. AS you say, dictatorial powers, but not just the power to act but the power to punish any and all resistance.
yes, but Obama can barely manage to tie his own shoes. Nevermind run a country.
Same game as with Bush. He was and idiot,.....no he was and evil war monger genius manipulating us into war and surrendering or liberties, ...no he was Cheney's puppet. None of these people are idiots. We mistake their indifference to our realities as stupid or evil, but they just don't give a fuck. They just want what they want and have the power to have a damn good chance a getting it.
i am not getting my hopes up just yet, but there is nothing more that i would want to see than to see bankers across the world going crazy if the u.s were to default, the chaos it would cause.
i am expecting them to just kick the can, but tomm is the 1th, so the time is coming o so soon.
gop, please fucking stand firm. remember, obama maybe blaming u guys becaucse that kenyan piece of shit only blames other people and never takes responsibility, but if we were to default and go into a major depression, in 30 years from now in history books and so on, its going to be obama who everyone remembers as being president during this time, not who was in charge of the house.
this will make obama look so bad, dont give into that bastard.
Remember, rememeber the firfth of October.
Rigged, you're absolutely correct. But it won't take 30 years. More like 3 days.
The dingbats that worship Obama think he is the fount for all their goodies, not the government or the taxpayer. This has been his strategy from the beginning, to convince the sheep that without him, they won't survive. It's about to backfire.
When the goodies (EBT, Obamaphones, SSI, disability checks, etc.) stop flowing, it will be Obama's fault immediately & and the sheep will be super mad at him for throwing them under the bus like that. Of course there will be riots and all kinds of pandemonium, and O will need to implement martial law. In the minds of his sheep, that act alone will confirm that he's in charge and he's the one who screwed them.
GOOD
How the US Senate votes on this is about as relevant as a class of Kindergartners voting they want free ponies. Nothing is going to happen until the House gets what they want.
Until the BANKSTERS get what they want.
FIFY
I was PISSED a few days ago when it was looking like house repubs were going to cave. I am glad they are standing up to Obama. This is not a dictatorship, those conservative Republicans were voted in to take a stand and they are. They aren't holding anyone hostage, they are doing their job. Thank god.
If Obama won't negotiate fuck him. This default will be on his shoulders. If he won't concede at least the extraordinary measures (which he promised to veto) than let's default. I don't want a veiled dictatorship.
Agreed. The Dictator needs to fall.
He's not a dictator (yet) but he sure is acting like one.
(give me everything I want or collapse)
I vote for collapse anyday over a dictator. Especially when it's on his shoulders and his legacy.
A collapse would give him an excuse to become a dictator. If things began to fall apart, he could declare a state of emergency and martial law. That could be the beginning of the end. We are in a very percarious situation aparrently. Blow after blow it gets a little more ominous every stinking day. ( Otherwise everything is fine).
I don't necessarily blame Obama for not negotiating on the debt ceiling, but the idea that the president should be able to ask for money for the budget and get whatever he wants without any negotiation is BS. There should be negotitation over a budget.
Personally, I wish the Republicans in the house would pass a bill to raise the debt ceiling for 6 weeks, put it in front of Harry Reid and tell him it was his call on whether we default on or not. Then tell Obama that when he is ready to negotitate over the budget the Republicans will neogitate over opening the government back up. I would keep pushing the debt ceiling out a couple months at a time and I would keep the government partially shut down until Obama decided he needed to negotiate over funding.
You guys watch too much Fox News, or listen to too much right-wing radio
Agreed. If... IF the GOP plays it smart, they will spread the PR mantra that...
> "We bent over backwards, 16hrs/day, 7 days/week. There's only so much we can do to protect the Constitution and We The People".
> And "In the final analysis, the Buck stops with the POTUS".
The POTUS is clearly acting more like "Il Duce" than a "leader". And you know what the Italian public did to "Il Duce" in the end, don't you? :-)
Once again the tea-party extremists sending the entire country into the toilet. A lot of angry old white men pissed off at their decreasing power and influence. They only believe in a white America. Bigots.
The toilet is the socialist country you will end up in if this debt isn't addressed.
wow you're a racist j8h9
What?!!!!! You sound like one of the voices in Obama's head.
To the argument that the conservative republicans are holding the country hostage fuck that. THEY WERE VOTED IN by their constituents to do what they are doing. The purpose of our republic is to make sure the minority opinion is protected. Otherwise everything would be voted by referendum and the majority would just plow over everything.
The fact that the conservatives appear to be standing against a dictatorial Obama emboldens me as a citizen.
I pray they remain unwavering.
Let it go and get it right, another debt ceiling increase and more Obama spending to elect Democrats is not the answer.
There comes a time when you have to wake up, look at the numbers without emotion, and with an objective eye. Then you know it's time. Pull the plug, call the bank and break the bad news to them: it's just not going to work.
Then with your last purchase on the company credit card, you go buy a great bottle of single malt.
Fucking cunts!!! (still)
Bunch of bunk. This is not the fist time the nation has defaulted. And there will be no default, which is the purpose of fiat money All of this is nonsense. ANd the more the governmetn is "shut down", the betther the economy.
An admitted default is the equivalent of everyone seeing the "king has no clothes". Its not like it makes us something we are not, it just puts a signboard on it.
Except the bill CANNOT ORIGINATE IN THE SENATE since it's a spending bill. But eh, it's not like they give a fuck anymore.
The constitution is dead. Long live the Obamatution! Unwritten but interpreted daily as seen fit.
Frankenfreeshit seems unstoppable.
Don’t any of you remember who signed the Budget Control Act of 2011?
Obama signed it.
That was his opportunity to honor his campaign pledge to only tax the RICH.
His credibility would be much higher if he had Vetoed the tax increases on the non-rich.
In doing so, the president said, "Is this the deal I would have preferred? No. But this compromise does make a serious down payment on the deficit reduction we need, and gives each party a strong incentive to get a balanced plan done before the end of the year."[13]
Harry Reid AND Boehner and many House members signed it, too.
Now they’re trying to protect their ‘jobs’ by assuming we’re clueless sheep.
Fool us twice, shame on US!
so, ... new high for rut2000 tomorrow?
Ahhhhhhh, good old Republicans. They aren't called the stupid party for nothing. How the hell are you scrambling around at this late date trying to figure out what you can get out of your own caucus? Well, that's that. Reid and McConnell will put together some crap sandwich and Boehner will be forced at media knifepoint to put it up for a vote - and it will pass with more Democrats than Repubs. What an asshat
so now because these 2 mother fuckers mconnell and reid are going to speak tonight, that is enough to spike futures up 56 on dow and 7 on s&p.
are u fucking shitting me? how many fucking times can futures jump on the same bullshit.
omgd they are going to fucking talk, lets erase all the losses from today and then add another 100 dow pts and 10 &pts.
Your wish is granted. Dow up 90 / S&P up 11
Just tell the Chinese T-Bond Holders we're, "Just Walking Away."
They can, however, keep those finely engraved paper Bonds for memories sake. We don't need them back.
I'm sure they'll understand.
China could really rub salt in the wounds by framing them all and selling them cheap to impoverished Americans, in Walmart, to hang on the wall!
Its funny because they are arguing over worthless money.
A trillion here, a trillion there.... it doesn't even fucking matter anymore.... the time to take action was 1980s ~ 2003.
Too little too late to change anything.
Goldman this, Goldman that... is ZH anything but a puppet mouthpiece for Goldman?
Considering Goldman is the puppet mouthpiece for the ones in London who shall not be named, it's probably important that we pay attention to what the Tyler(s) puppet mouthpiece report on said puppet mouthpiece.