College graduates are twice as likely to find employment... but at what cost?
Source: Visual.ly via CreditGuard
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Get a trade
College is just another way for banks to get a debt-yoke on peoples' necks. Better off learning a trade, or going the self-employment route.
Curious to see AK in the list. I am actually getting my second BS (accounting) at the state university right now. Work helps with some of the cost and it is directly applicable to my job, so it penciled out for me.
Payin' cash all the way though!
If anyone is an accountant type and not opposed to Alaska, there is a chronic shortage here. Cost of livin' ain't cheap, but it is beautiful country. And given that AK is 20% of the surface area of the US in total, there are a range of climates, a fact many people skip right over.
Why pay for the education when you can get it for free? You're just paying for a piece of paper and an asinine experience with corporate sheep (if you're doing an MBA).
I completely understand where you are coming from. In fact, I am very well read across a range of subjects. My experiences is that unless you have straight up 100% match work experience, employers don't care.
Given my background and my current employment situation, this makes dollar sense. I researched salaries and jobs if I get a boot in three, five, or ten years. I like where I am and want to stay long term, but if it doesn't work out, I need to get paid. A second BS is almost an insurance policy for my situation.
I roll with the math.
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but if you're on this site, why are you talking about a better salary 3, 5, or 10 years down the road? At the ten year mark, instead of getting 50,000 peices of toilet paper, you will receive 80-100,000. I'm guessing you don't believe in the whole economic collapse talk.
Keep in mind that you cannot default on Student Loan debt, the IRS will collect at any cost.
Too, I believe Tyler storied this a few moths back:
Don't get in the path of automation. These corporations are fucking ruthless.
If any of you bothered to read the infographic, college still pays off handsomely. You average $800k additional earnings for $30k debt over a lifetime.
The degreed idiots serving coffee mostly have useless degrees. If you invest smart in your education, it still pays off very well.
If you're rolling with the numbers an MBA with an emphasis on finance is good for a management slot everywhere, so I would go for that. A sequential Bx is like playing with your food. Networking with doctors is illuminating.
Your cost of living can't even begin to touch the cost of living in California or New York.
Cold, colder and so cold your nipples freeze and fall off. No thanks! I wish you luck though.
Lol..getting a trade (good old GOP advice) in a world where almost everything is being automated and almost every job is being made redundant due to technology..
Nice thinking there grandpa...how old and blind are you again?
Somebody's got to keep the robots running!
How do you automate steel erection? Framing? Laying pipe? Building big shit? Fixing equipment? Welding?
Everything that can be automated isn't every thing.
Shit, I'm not a union supporter, but there will always be a need for skilled tradesman, union or not.
Most of what you wrote will be automated soon (welding especially)
There are hundreds of thousands of machinists either out of work or making 9 dollars an hour with 30 years of experience...all made redundant by CNC machines.
If they're intelligent enough to have been a machinist, they should be able to learn a new skill, like CAD/CAM, programming, etc.
Evolve or die.
The computers and robots don't run themselves. Yet. (HF algos excepted)
Its a matter of numbers. The fancy machinery may very well replace 4 machinists with 1 machinst and a programmer. The other two machinists, what happens to them? Since we haven't been expanding manufacturing output in a meaningful way, those people are laid off and left to die on welfare or disability.
The other two? Go back to college, right? Lol
Whether they know it or not, the other two machinist have been freed from their menial, obsolete lives. the day after they got fired would be the most beautiful day of their lives. Their breakfast would taste better than anything you or I ever had.
It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.
I was a machinist in the army. I am a programmer now. Soon to be an accountant programmer.
Follow the money!
I was once a farmer in a small village, I am a programmer now. Soon to be an accountant programmer.
Follow the outsourcing!
Clever and stupid all at once! The ZH way! You have no understanding of where this young man is and what he's trying to do. Location does make a difference.
"The computers and robots don't run themselves."
You're missing the point. One offshore Indian writes one program that controls one machine that replaced 100 workers each of those workers had 3 babies.
Wall St mandates efficiency in a world with explosive population growth.
The offshore Indian does not give 2-shits about the delicate balance of the American economy. That is why we need to point that HAARP machine right over into that general direction and level that shithole to zero.
Sorry, Wall Sreet does not mandate efficiency - you do by shopping at Wally World.
Hey dipshit,I am a high precision toolmaker.
Who the fuck do you think uses cnc machines?
Who builds these machines.
Shit has to be made.
I thought rich people magically make them appear out of thin air. /sarcasm.
Yes, but the CNC machine you make works twice as fast as a man, all day and all night. And what happens when you make the CNC machine that makes CNC machines. There goes your job too.
A CNC lathe that only worked twice as fast a human would be junked.
Do robot plumbers have butt cracks?
That'd make a great bumper sticker.
And yes, I know something about butt cracks.
Seriously, though, Robots Will Steal Your Job, But That's OK — http://www.robotswillstealyourjob.com — because the great majority of the world's labor, if not slavery or its equivalent, is alienated to one degree or another, meaning that it is drudgery suffered through for the sole purpose of ekeing out a living.
Humanity, then, if it is ever to begin fulfilling its all but limitless potential, must reach the point where all of its labors are essentially labors of love, i.e., you are free, in mythologist Joseph Campbell's words, to "follow your bliss."
As this is the promise of robotics — even if the merger of man and machine renders humanity as we know it extinct — it must be pursued with vigor, as in fact it is.
Do dangers lurk? Of course. But a world tumbling headlong toward the evolutionary cul-de-sac of statism is vastly more dangerous. Thus, as statism plays itself out as a consequence of its internal contradictions, coercion being inimical to the free and voluntary cooperation that is the heart of the social enterprise, we must confront the pain and suffering to come for what it is: the death of an inherently antisocial paradigm and the birth of a socially vibrant, fully individuated, and ever-evolving one.
Do you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about?
Ah, life inside the box. Funny how, when you get used to the dark, you can't stand the light.
Wrong, genius. You obviously havent been around the world of real, physical things. For one, there's a world of difference between the kind of welding that takes place in a production line, and that needed for complex maintenance work.
As for college, just about the only undergrad biz degree that might be worth something I suppose, is for accounting. Most other fields you can learn on the job and most biz grads will tell you that little that they 'learned' in college had any use on the job. I have a college degree but would probably learn a trade today - something that can't be off-shored that people can't do without. Like a plumber. If the toilet backs up, most people don't put off spending the money.
In a nation filled with 'leaders' intent on destroying the American middle class for their vision of globalism, nothing is certain. They could open the borders to millions of illegals (making them 'legal'). Then, even the plumber gig might not be so certain.
The plan is to bust people, make them dependent. Also scare them with all sorts of purported internal and external 'threats' that they need 'protection' from. Then they are compliant. Perfect clueless slaves.
I'm with you until the unfortunate last paragraph.
I was able to go to school from my Parants basement, on the computer and get deul degrees! 6 year, only 79,000 USD debt! First degree in criminology, second phrenology! I come crime seen, read bump on corpses haed, and know who dunnit! Same Day! With valuable degrees the skys the limet! As always, Thanks You very much Univercity of Pheonics!!
I bet you have lots of phrens on Facebook.
Couldn't agree more!
A college degree is the way of the future. But who said that everyone can make it work for them? Hard working students graduating with solid marks in fields with future demand will end up being the new middle class. But then again, they will need someone to plunge their toilets out when they get clogged. So I suppose it might be a good thing to become a plumber too...
Why? Because of Common Core, and being taught that 2+2=5 is correct if you are really really sure?
I'm only in my early 30s but the ineptitude of mathmatical acumen demonstrated by the latest generation of cashiers is absoutely astounding.
Common Core does not allow 2+2 to equal five. Rather, they insist that everybody explain how they got their answer. That is, the emphasis is on learning to think. The one who cannot explain how they arrived at "4" as the answer is in need of help learning to think as much as the one who can explain how they arrived at "5".
I applaud the effort to help kids learn how to think, but so much of early math is nothing more than rote memorization. Hopefully Common Core will not deny them that useful bit of education. At a minimum, parents can provide their children with that opportunity for rote memorization outside of Common Core if necessary.
Then there is always Kahn Academy for the other stuff.
common core is actually influnced by the old soviet education system..which is a good thing
True story, when I was learning algebra I figured out how to solve problems not using the formula provided to me. The teacher would not give me credit, because I did not follow the formula she gave me.
Bobbyrig: "True story, when I was learning algebra I figured out how to solve problems not using the formula provided to me. The teacher would not give me credit, because I did not follow the formula she gave me. "
That doesnt surprise me at all. I helped a relatives teenagers with some of their advanced algebra homework. I showed them a simplier way to do the problems and why the method worked. The next day their 'teacher' wrote them a note saying that they wouldnt get credit unless they re-did the problems 'the way theyre done in the book'. The kids said they didnt want to know why the methods worked, but to 'just get it over with'.
They go to one of the top rated public high schools in the state. They get good grades - one kid with a B+ average the other with mainly As. I was shocked at the poor quality of their thinking, lack of creativity, and extremely low quality writing skills. I'd hate to see what bad students from a bad school produce. The current American public 'education' system is a curse. (And on purpose.)
But they do spend multi millions on new buildings and sports facilities.
Common Core teaches kids how to think, huh ? Does it teach them logic, and especially to recognize logical fallacies ? Does Common Core teach them how to break down the news they encounter in newspapers, on t.v., on the internet ? Does Common Core encourage kids to break down the global warming issue and examine the pros and cons of purported man-made causes for it, and exmaine if its a 'problem' at all ? Do they examine politcians promises versus their actual actions and the results of that ? (Or if there is any real difference between the so-called 'opposing political parties' when it comes to results ? Do they examine the nature of money, banking, and the Federal Reserve ? Do they think about the individualistic foundations of the country and how education went from being individual based to being taken over by local districts and then dominated by the central government ?
Instead they focus on teaching kids why 2+2 = 4 ? Nothing wrong with knowing this, but it can be argued that they don't teach real thinking that matters at all. Research on the history & nature of public education illustrates that this is the underlying purpose of such programs.
MDB, is that you?
You peddle a falacy, the trades will be around along time before they are taken over by machines.
The trades have been hit hard in this depression, but they are slowly coming back, but there is a way to go.
if you believe there will be a crash of the system, automation will soon be redundant and the guys that can fix your shitter will be the new technologists. BTW, you'll probably have to let your wife "pay" him to cover the bill
Collapse or no collapse 5 years from now I bet all the people that went into the trades are gonna be sorry they ever signed to pull shit out of my toilet.
That's the bottom line, can you dig it?
You been readin' Mish again.
Actually I got suckered into your type of thinking so I apologize for my comment.
Some people just do not excel in Academia and for that reason those young, violent (stupid) sons of (now layed off) blue collar workers should be given a chance to do something constructive with their hands so that both their intellectual and financial needs are met. A trade is the perfect outlet for them..even if they find themselves pulling crap out of my toilet for a living.
I just don't advice anyone who is capable of getting a degree to go into the trades. that's all.
It might smell like shit to you, but to others it smells like money. I know a plumber (who still rods lines when needed), pushing $120k/year in a blue collar area. Sure, another plumber probably pulls in $35k unclogging toilets, but never cared to learn other skills so he'll be stuck cleaning your toilet. He'd fail just as hard at college, but wind up with $50k+ in debt that he will never pay off.
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