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Guest Post: What A Republican Civil War Means For Gold
Submitted by John Rubino via The Dollar Collapse blog,
In one sense, the past couple of weeks’ debt ceiling debate was just one more in a long line of annoying-but-otherwise-pointless pieces of bad political theater. But in another sense it was a turning point, one that may have put the democrats completely in charge. Consider:
In a system with two viable parties, each side has to pretend to be more reasonable than it really is in order to attract just enough moderate votes to win the next election. So democrats pay lip service to fiscal responsibility and deficits – occasionally even signing bills like welfare reform that they find repugnant – when they’d much rather spend their days indiscriminately tossing other people’s money at new entitlement programs. Republicans, meanwhile, pretend to empathize with people they privately view as prey when they’d rather be cutting taxes and invading places that have oil.
We only rarely get to see the major parties’ true selves because the 20% of voters in the middle are turned off by displays of naked avarice, and in a two-party system elections go to whoever carries a majority of that block.
That’s why the latest debt ceiling debacle is such a big deal. Government shutdowns and related turmoil have become a standard bargaining chip lately, without affecting the make-up of either party. But this time the main conflict was not between republicans and democrats, but between mainstream, log-rolling, back-scratching, career-politician republicans and a handful of representatives and senators elected with Tea Party – i.e., highly ideological – support. The latter have no interest in raising the debt ceiling under any circumstances and see a government shutdown as a positive end in itself. Defunding Obamacare was just the excuse.
They got rolled, of course, as regular republicans chose to raise the debt ceiling without condition (as everyone always knew they would). But the cost of reopening the government is a republican civil war with only two likely outcomes: 1) The two groups stay in the big tent but challenge each other in primaries and intrigue over committee seats, etc., making a united, coherent policy front impossible and handing the next few elections to the democrats. 2) The Tea Party/libertarian republicans leave and either join the existing libertarian party or start one of their own, siphoning just enough votes from republicans in future elections to keep the democrats in charge.
Already, it has started. See this from today’s Bloomberg:
Republican Civil War Erupts: Business Groups v. Tea Party
A battle for control of the Republican Party erupted today as an emboldened Tea Party is moving to oust senators who voted to reopen the government, and business groups began mobilizing to defeat allies of the small-government movement.
“We are going to get engaged,” said Scott Reed, senior political strategist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. “The need is now more than ever to elect people who understand the free market and not silliness.” The chamber spent $35.7 million on federal elections in 2012, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based group that tracks campaign spending.
Meanwhile, two Washington-based groups that finance Tea Party-backed candidates said today they’re supporting efforts to defeat Mississippi Senator Thad Cochran, who voted this week for the measure ending the 16-day shutdown and avoiding a government debt default. Cochran, a Republican seeking a seventh term next year, faces a challenge in his party’s primary by Chris McDaniel, a state legislator.
McDaniel, who announced his candidacy today, “is not part of the Washington establishment and he has the courage to stand up to the big spenders in both parties,” Matt Hoskins, executive director of the Senate Conservatives Fund, said in a statement supporting him. Read more
Once the civil war costs the republicans control of the House of Representatives (November 4, 2014), the democrats will be relieved of the need to fool the middle about their commitment to fiscal sanity. The incoming Clinton administration and its congressional majorities will ramp up domestic spending and finance it with higher taxes, more borrowing and way more money printing. Janet Yellen (the perfect Fed chair for this transition) will expand QE and make it permanent. The Fed’s balance sheet will grow in trillion-dollar chunks as it buys up all the bonds issued by the government and the mortgage packagers and pretty much anybody else with paper to sell.
The resulting tidal wave of hot money will swamp emerging markets and drive Europe and Japan crazy, but the democrats won’t care because they’ll be favored by 20 points in the polls and in any event will be too busy hiring more staff to handle the upcoming legislative season to listen to non-believers. Oh, and they’ll counter any dissent with capital controls and stepped-up surveillance.
Could there be a better environment for gold? Not at first glance. But then almost the same could have been said two years ago when the Fed started buying $85 billion of bonds each month and bubbles began to form in stocks and houses. Some of that cash certainly should have found its way into precious metals. Instead the result was an epic correction. So logic isn’t necessarily our best guide here.
Still, the republican implosion/democrat ascendance comes after a two-year precious metals correction (during which China, India, and Russia bought something like 4,000 tons of gold, an amount greater than Germany’s entire gold reserves). So coming when it does, the combination of democrat dominance, an even more accommodating Fed and a growing shortage of Western gold to be shipped East…well, at the risk of being wrong again, this really does look like precious metals paradise.
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paper gold or physical gold? Who really gives a shit about the puppet show anymore? What are their ticket sales like? Is there and ETF for this?
Does anyone know what Honey Boo Boo is up to?
The repukes in disagreement? why? because any principles that make any sense in either party go directly to the shitter once they enter into the district of cunts. A massive vagina of narcissists, involved with creating legacies of bullshit.
"Could there be a better environment for gold?"
Yes; at the bottom of the lake...
I'm thinking of an environment that doesn't have a completely coopted regulatory system allowing criminals to manipulate prices... that might be better.
I think the mid-terms could be more like 1994 once the sheep get totally bitch slapped, butt reamed and mental health abused by premiums from Obamacare.
That is assuming that Diebold has not been totally compromised and 20 million Mexicans are not voting in that election.
I think so too. I think the Republicrats that voted for the Obama / Reid / McConnell / Boehner hosing get absolutely torched in the next elections if Diebold allows it.
Regardless, it should be gold positive, but none of it will matter as much as when the Treasury devalues the good ol' USD early next year. Then anyone that doesn't hold phyzz will be screwed regardless of who's in office.
I'm pretty sure that if gold prospers..., they'll find a way to make it illegal for you and me, but perfectly OK for them.
let's expand the scope of the article. I agree with the author's premise that a squabbling Republican Party emboldens and empowers Democrats. This serves several valuable purposes, all of which revolve around accelerating both the collapse AND pushing more people off the fence snd into the resistance.
I'm liking this.
I would like to point out that the progressive republicans are anything but conservative.
Gold is the endgame.....I suggest you get there first.
gmrpeabody, they won't take it away by force but they will make trade in PMs illegal, sales illegal ... not that any Americans will want to buy any anyways. The asians will come over here for it. Ever been to an Asian arts auction? You will very soon see who has the deep pockets in this world. Right now the Chinese guys I know are not coming over here to buy PMs but they will.
If the Repubs in the House let any amnesty bill get through then the GOp is dead along with the USA. The USA is probably dead anyway. Idiot traded liberty for a TV clicker.
I am getting sick of this Wells Fargo video ad streaming here on ZH.
If we get amnesty....I suggest we give Marco Rudio a one way ticket back to Cuba. Maybe give him a 1950's Chevy to take with him.....we're not heartless here.
Wake me up when McCain or Graham get primaried, or at least when Boehner steps down as Speaker.
the district of cunts. A massive vagina of narcissists
what do you have against women?
Stupid comment. Change your name to "lostinthebrain"
Because the federal government has thousands of programs to give cash to women, whereas it gives men the opportunity to be killed or crippled in places that most of us could not find on a map.
The bigger question is this one:
Are Tea Party Republicans Principled or Profiteers?Because how can anyone trust any bum who goes to DC?
coming next:
tea party takes enough votes that democrats hold all branches of gub
then the payouts/entitlements flow like you have always dreamed they would
after which ..
difficult to see
a weakened indebted defaulted us gets invaded or taken over by whoever wants it
but that will take another two administrations of can kicking to achieve
at which point perhaps a libtea puppet is installed so that he/she and his/her ideology can be blamed by the *next* administration that comes in with a mandate for total hegemony
his/her name shall be honey boo boo
Then you have civil war.
Sounds like fun!
When the Libertarians and the Independents and the moderate Democrats discover how Terrible Obamacare is for them,
the Republicans should win a two thirds majority in the House and Senate.
And then the Republicans should thank the Tea Party.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/15/tea-party-supporters-richer-e...
You forgot one:
The bond market collapses. The FED's balance sheet is worthless, thus it cannot maintain the government's deficit spending, now above 40%. The government cannot pay for all its programs. The value of the US Dollar plunges. Prices quadruple over night. And the Dems get the blame.
Dems hold all branches. Predictably, a couple of crazies engage in some well-publicized mass shootings. Dems enact national gun registration and confiscation of "assault weapons". Grace period to turn them in. Names and addresses of owners collected from various databases. Grace period expires. SWAT teams dispatched to do no-knock raids. SWAT ambushes organized and executed by patriot groups (has already been discussed elsewhere). Martial law declared. Military rank-and-file murmurings and grumblings begin in earnest. Internal assassinations rapidly become increasingly commonplace within dot mil and armed dot gov (as most of them now are), pitting regimists against Constitutionalists. Military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan crumbles.
America turns inward. Power abhors a vacuum.
Egypt collapses, Suez closed. Russia rolls into Caucasus through Azerbaijan, forges an alliance with Kurds to re-form Kurdistan, links with Syria and Iran, and now controls all flow of natty and oil from east to west (Europe, that is), pipelines, tankers, everything that doesn't go around the horn. Energy flow to the east, e.g. China, is not affected. Turkey, an importer of 95% of its energy, collapses, changes sides. EU gets cold and makes its own peace. Netanyahu's head explodes. China sells USD, and buys Yen, killing what is left of Japan's export share and cementing herself in place as ruthless leader of Asia. Guess who gets to keep the islands? USD, already on its last breath, collapses. China announces it actually has 6000 tones of gold and is using it to back the Yuan; invites inspectors to inspect its gold holdings, issues challenge to US to allow inspection of alleged US gold hoard.
Elements or precursors of all of these individual pieces can now be seen, or have been seen in the recent past. What is preventing them from playing out? Ask yourself honestly.
SWRichmond,
am appropriately humbled
your dark forecast makes mine look like a june weekend on the boardwalk
I don't advocate those things, but I believe they will happen regardless of what I do or don't do. Which of them do you believe will not happen, and why not?
A terribly bleak but certainly credible trajectory.
Why can't more voters (Republican and Democrat) see this?
Meanwhile at Mitteldeutscher Rundfunk studios, Honey joo joo is in it's second season.
The all German cast features a young Israeli girl who's dad works for the Netanyahu regime and her moms works at home desperately trying to propel her daughter into the national spotlight so she can capitalize on her fame.
It was announced on September 20, 2013, that MDR has ordered a twelve episode third seasons and three specials. The first special will air on January 1, 2014
I can't believe that these evil Germans are using the nice jewish people as fodder! Disgust!
OMG! I'm so sure. How'd I get so many down vote for my TMZ report? Or are you guys just down voting those evil Germans!
Tyler, please re-ban this assclown.
Dear Prudence, open up your eye-ai eyes.
Someone start wheeling the Gallows and the Guilotines on to the Washington Mall and lets start having some fun for the Masses.
Give me an Amen
Amen brother!
The sooner the better. We'll need alot of rope and blade sharpeners.
For blade sharpeners, I recommend the Tormek T7, an ingenious Swedish design.
No need for blade sharpeners, the duller the better, it might take 2 or 3 times!
You'll rethink that once you get the schedule. 60 - 70 per day is a frenetic pace and we must be efficient to assure a quick turnover of the regime.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=obsidian+blades
Not sure how practical that is to scale up in size but...
Amen. I can sharpen blades.
I just take my daily 500mg dose of FuckItAll and I am good to go.
Gold will hang in there, but it will be several years before it makes a new assault on its all-time high barring an external shock, of course.
http://dareconomics.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/around-the-globe-10-18-2013/
But the cost of reopening the government is a republican civil war with only two likely outcomes:
Three likely outcomes:
3) Tea Party Republicans figure out who butters their bread and get with the program.
If they're clever, they can maintain their current voter base through deception.
four...if they are good they force amerikka apart..and then finally bin laden can come out of hiding and take his place in front of the democrat national socialists.. i pray for a end
This whole mess reminds me of the Occupy movement. Even if you believe the Tea Party™ at the national level has been co-opted by special interests, as many people said of Occupy and now believe of the national Tea Party, the grassroots are/were true believers. They do pose a real threat, and I think this was more about the establishment marginalizing them and less about marginalizing Tea Party politicians.
In order to preserve the status quo, the "two" parties have to kill any legitimate opposition while it's still in the womb, and that means going after people who aren't already part of the system.
Yes.
As soon as there's conflict outside the endorsed left/right social wedge issue "conversation," The establishment gets busy. God, guns, and gays - those are the permissible topics for disagreement; economics is verboten.
It's all too late.
The voting members of the FSA outnumber the dwindling number of productive taxpayers.
Democracy: "Three wolves and two sheep voting on what's for lunch."
Three wolves and two hundred sheep - doesn't matter.
Wolves will be wolves. I think some call that "Natural Law."
I think some call that "Natural Law."
tony soprano told us about that...recalling the takeover of the sporting goods store...
But the FSA are not wolves but sheep, what we have here is not Natural Law but Social Engineering.
The "real wolves" need to start hunting, then. Sounds like a cop-out to me.
Evolution marches on.
Democracy: the singular, only system on Earth in all history that prevents warlord boots stomping your children's faces into the dirt while raping your wife.
We need a third party.
Maybe the Tea-Occupy-Party: just slam the two movements togetather. Their only platform they would need is : We are not THEM!
It would get my vote, plus neither Democrats nor Republicans would go near it: it smells like pooh to both.
Maybe the "Brown" team is unable to be co-opted?
Re: “We are going to get engaged,” said Scott Reed, senior political strategist for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. “The need is now more than ever to elect people who understand the free market and not silliness.”
Looks like the Big-Bidness lovin' tea-party nitwits are going to have reconcile why "free-enterprise" lovin Big-Bidness loves Big-Gov so much.
I don't think the tea-party brains are large enough to deal with this.
If "those people" love Big-Gov, and Big-Bidness loves Big-Gov, and I love Big-Bidness that means I must like... AAAAAA "those people"!!!!!!!
The only person I see with a brain-size issue around here is you. (And MDB, but I'm pretty sure he just the Machiavelli of trolls.)
If you think the Tea Party is at all interested in "Big-Bidness," you haven't been paying attention. [T]axed [E]nough [A]lready. That's our issue. When a working man/woman sends half his paycheck to Big-Gov (federal, state, local) OR MORE, in some states, we are enduring tax levels that would have sent our Founders on a torches-and-pitchforks march in DC, and gallows may have shortly followed for our dear leaders.
The economy can manage its own affairs. We are laize-fair types in that regard, with some sensible regulation on enviornment and securities and what-not. We want Big-Gov slashed, and our taxes reduced. Hell, at least hold the line on taxes, for God's sake.
Did you comprehend all of that, or do you need it in Phonics?
Re; you haven't been paying attention.
Yeah, like all the Tea Party rants against Big-Ag and Big-MIC.
Or, is that deafening silence just in public, and in private all the tea-parties are as pissed at "free-enterprise" loving "patriots" living off of Big-MIC and Big-Ag (and all the rest) as they are of "those people" getting loot from Obama care?
Gimmy a break. The Tea Party is mostly pissed at "those people" getting welfare. Big-Corp they just genuflect to the job creators.
In 7 more years (obama and Hillary) we will have lost another generation to the free shit army and a total of 75% will be untrainable and complete dumb asses. Just think how well their kids will do when they add to the FSA in 28 years. ...in conclusion, hang it up for THE US....anyone with 15% of his brain left will be out of here
Bullshit. You really have NOT been paying attention...
TP would love to cut ALL ag. subsidies, and the TP movement itself is increasingly anti-war & anti-corporate/K St.
That deafening silence you're not hearing is the supposedly anti-war & anti-big business LEFT, who just rammed through another pork-laden Farm Bill... and we won't mention the president's (and Senate's) recent record regarding the MIC... more war, more drones, more death, Guantanamo still open, NDAA, NSA, DHS,... yeah, the Dems/left have quite a legacy of supporting a larger & more oppressive MIC. Can't really blame the TP for bigAg + MIC... but you can look in the mirror and see the culprit clearly.
spot on, wot, old chap
Big-Bidness is almost a purely Democratic constituency today - except for those industries Democrats hate, like fossil fuels, mining, and heavy manufacturing.
I don't think they hate they hate those industries at all. They vilify them in order to provide subsidies to their pet projects (wind, solar, etc...) and to extort them. They get money from both directions that way
key takeaway: So logic isn’t necessarily our best guide here.
Going from 5% to 10%, not because I logically expect gold to increase in value (how can something that is blatantly manipulated in price ever gain in value) but because I expect the crazy to increase.
If the crazy stops, I'll go back down to 5%.
I'm seriously considering owning a Bank of China account denominated in RMB.
If an actual split within the Republican Party costs the old guard, "go along to get along" RINOs their power and the control of Congress, if not a catastrophic (for them) collapse of the Republican Party as it has existed for the last several decades, then I say "Good!". Fuck those ever-so-marginally-lesser-of-two-evils, warmongering, corporate-pandering, police state-building, Big Brother-enabling, backstabbing sellouts and bastards, and may they all rot in Hell.
What are those whose sympathies align with the Tea Party, but who fear the above scenario(s), really holding on to, or 'winning', at this point? Stop bowing to your sociopathic blackmailers and captors already.
Amen! End the two-party charade! The GOP never wanted anything from small government conservatives and libertarians other than blind/dumb obedience. The lesser-of-two-evils experiement is dead, time for the GOP to follow suit. Perhaps then real opposition to the progressive agenda can be waged!
If the Republican Party spilts then Dems likely will hold the White House for decades to come. The Repups can barely win the White House as it is. Splitting their ticket will result in a Democratic win most every time, unless they run a retard like a Democratic version of Palin or Bachman.
Tea Party folks may see this split as a win, but conservatives will just become more ineffective. Although it might lead to athree way party system in which most Dems and Repubs become the mainstream party that both the Dem and Repub currently are. Then the liberals might back out of the non-liberal Dem party to form their own party. That would be good for breaking the so-called two party monopoly.
Regardless, my current assessment is that the Tea Party will make a slight blip like Ross Perot did, then disappear into obscurity as big funders pull away to distance themselves. We will see.
And that would be any different in outcomes from the current situation, in which the Republicans campaign as Libertarians than then govern as Democrats .... how exactly?
Just how does one become more ineffective than "not at all"?
You still talk AS IF THERE IS ANY FUCKING DIFFERENCE between the two pro-status-quo 'mainstreams' of both establishment parties. Stop insulting our intelligence.
True, there isn't much difference at all between Dems and Repubs on the big issues. It's just a matter of degree. Both parties support the status quo and the currently wealthy and powerful. It's just a matter of which party's supporters gets that bigger slice of the pie, which rarely includes the middle class.
Bush and the Repubs pushed through tax breaks for their wealthy constituents during their days in power, then Obama and the Dems push through Obamacare, which caused all of this latest theater. I doubt any party stepping outside of that narrow spectrum of the currently defined Dem-Repub, left-right reality will get too far. Stepping outside of their comfort zone and the unknown are two things most people hate. Sticking to their hated, but known quantities of Dems and Repubs is the easier choice. You can throw insults and arrogance all you want, but it won't change reality.
On another note, I do find it interesting that Tea Party folks didn't make their stand on NDAA and NSA issues that affect freedom and instead chose an issue like Obamacare to make their big show. Especially when the Republican's goal since Obama was elected has been to take him down any way possible. Maybe they're more about politics than the freedom their rhetoric would indicate.
Maybe read more, and talk less.
Dont confuse real Tea Party supporters with the GOP controlled pile of shit led by hypocrites and liars like Ted Cruz.
I wouldn't want to be clasified as a "tea party supporter". A term commondly associated with Bachman, Cruz and Rand Paul. Libertarian is good, or perhaps constitutionalist.
Personally I have a special disliking for Rand Paul. Someone who says a lot of the things his father said, but is just another hollow neocon underneath, imo.
Exactly. Rand Paul sucks, and supported statist and warmonger Mitt Romney of all people.
He's nothing like his father.
"I do find it interesting that Tea Party folks didn't make their stand on NDAA and NSA issues that affect freedom..."
Are you flipping nuts!?!?!
The TP & libertarians were/are the ONLY folks standing up for civil liberties & personal freedom!
You must have blinders on, because you are not seeing the reality right in front of your face...
...like Rand Paul filibustering the Obama proposal to strike/kill american citizens w/o due process...
The TP is the ONLY group standing up for civil liberties... WAKE UP.
If a "real" political party is afraid to move to where people are and step away from the beltway mentality, then good riddance to bad rubbish.
We really only have "one" party right now anyway.
It is two heads connected to one body.
Actually a 3rd party by the Tea Party could make a lot of sense. At this point both main parties are statists pure and simple. Yes, it may give the Democrats complete control for a few election cycles - but the ruin of their policies would push ever more people into the TPs arms. It may also lead to the creation of a 4th party on the left. At that point the TP might have enough reps in the House at least to vote with the Republicans or the Democrats when it suits them and hold the true balance of power
The smartest plan for the Tea Party is to take over the Republican party, and that is what they are doing. There is precedent - this is exactly how the progressives took over the Democrat party (the Party of Jim Crow and the Viet Nam war, as you may recall). That was the big brouhaha at the 1968 DNC in Chicago - that was when the progressives completed the takeover.
I agree that multiple parties and a "coalition governemnt" would be far better than the joke we have now. There would have to be discussion and compromise.
NONE of these jokers is conservative.
Boy, you got fooled.
Maybe you should hop in with G-dub and his pimped out fool-me-twice-mobile.
I dont get why gold bugs think private ownership of gold will be legal in these scenarios. And you cant travel with it - if youre pulled over or stopped at a checkpoint theyll just confiscate it.
Oh well, I lost mine in a tragic boating accident anyway
That's nice. But eventually youll have to go back and retrieve it, if you want to spend it. With Bitcoin, you could access your savings anywhere in the world, and the government couldnt confiscate it at checkpoints.
what happens when the government shuts down the internet? Or the grid is nuked? How will your bitcoins work then?
Honestly, you gold bugs are parodies of yourselves.
If the government shut down the internet, the Bitcoins would still be worth something in the other countries where the Internet is still online. Second, an internet shutdown would cause a complete collapse of the real economy and engender extreme anger at the government among young people.
What would a government banning gold ownership do? Most Americans would just yawn. "I don't own any gold anyway. Meh."
Tactical EMP's will take out the Internet in EVERY country.
You'd be insane to assume otherwise.
And that's if it isn't a solar flare first.
"collapse of the real economy and engender extreme anger at the government among young people"
That's the INTENDED goal and will be attempted as many times as possible - Greece is a test-run, as is Spain - until it does happen. IT'S THE PLAN, you dip shit.
In a world where private ownership of gold is banned, why would anyone think that even logging onto the internet won't require a retina scan? Bitcoin will = shitcoin.
I like the idea of bitcoins because it's a middle finger to the establishment, but that also makes it a ripe target, and one with a lot less history and legitimacy than gold. How will the government justify outlawing ownership of something the government itselt has been minting for the last thirty years, and for 180+ years of its history? Will jewelry also be outlawed?
I don't buy it. I think blood will flow for other reasons long before we're so far gone that they actually try to ban gold and enforce a ban.
in a "world" banning gold? in the NewWorld, perhaps, in the OldWorld, unlikely. note the current flow of gold from NW to OW
Can't see it - can't see this OW. The whole world is evolving, changing all at once. There is no "old world" today. Nowhere.
You clearly have little if any experience with intangible assets. I hope you don't learn the hard way.
Bitcoin is a tangible asset. It is a mathematically unique keypair that exists redundantly on thousands of hard drives across the Earth's surface. Your gold? That exists in one location. And the government can come and take it from you, easily.
tangible assets are made of physical units called ELEMENTS. Various molecules & structures of those molecules will be comprised from those ELEMENTS in all that is tangible. Bitcoin is the one thing that's NEVER tangible & can never be.
tangible's word source: "can be touched"
with WHAT NETWORK? The global internet will be EXCAVATED, CUT OFF, ERASED when you need bitcoin the most.
Uh huh. Keep jerking off to your doomsday fantasies, gold bug. The rest of the world will pass you by.
The government will simply claim that a Justice Department or Homeland Security or F.B.I. investigation revelaed BitCoin was being used to fund terrorism or child pornography or Satan's retirement . . . whatever.
No one around here can drive a boat worth a shit for some reason.
There are many reasons to prefer silver, or almost any easily bartered commodity.
Gold will be a flash point, but it's not easy to predict how that will play out.
I agree. I think most people that own gold know this and also own silver. However, it is waaaaaay easier to hide gold in your colon compared to an equivalent value in silver. I keep my gold/siver ratio in the 1/20 neighborhood. Silver also has potentially greater value appreciation since it is currently at a historical low compared to gold.
I don't get why every moron who hasn't got a clue about gold, it's history, or it's utility calls anyone who wisely buys and holds gold a "gold bug". It is easily stored, concealed, and exchanged. And, if a government resorts to checkpoints and confiscation, you have arrived at a point where possessing guns and ammo are your keys to survival anyway. And as every moron knows "gold bugs" love guns and ammo almost as much as they love gold.
So your answer is to stuff gold up your ass and if the metal detectors go off grab your guns and start shooting. Brilliant. I think I'll stick with Bitcoin.
Yeah, that is the only possible scenario.
(rolls eyes)
It's not the only possible scenario, but it's the most-likely scenario.
strykerspeed, strawman slayer
Don't be too hard on him, he's just trying to earn his paycheck.
He reminds me of past douches such as Master Bates
Bit coin or goldbug haters should lighten up.
Gold and silver have a proven track record through many centuries of monetary madness.
Bit coin is as yet untested, but is off to a promising start. Albeit as a merely a secondary form of money that seems to be living up to its design criteria at this point.
Is a bit of Diversification such a bad thing?
Eggs and Egg Baskets chaps..
"Gold and silver have a proven track record through many centuries of monetary madness."
But that's just the thing: they don't.
Gold has done nothing to prevent the current economic crisis. Governments easily replaced gold with their paper and digital alternatives. And the people did nothing to stop them.
Bitcoin ends this. Bitcoin has all the advantages of digital/paper money (ease of use, extreme divisibility, instant transfers to anywhere in the world) and all the advantages of gold (limited supply, impossible to counterfeit).
You're an idiot. WE DON'T WANT TO PREVENT an economic crisis.
They MUST happen.
We want to survive it with WEALTH INTACT.
That's what gold always did for 5000 years & nothing's changed.
Bitcoin is ended when the grid is ended & with a few tactically located EMP blasts IT WILL BE.
With what local networks remain bitcoin won't work across networks (no bridges between them) & won't have any value (gold & silver have non-monetary uses; bitcoin doesn't; that's why gold & silver have INTRINSIC value).
Money CAN'T EXIST without physical intrinsic value for NON-monetary consumption.
You seem to be under the illusion that governments will happily cut electricity and internet to the people. Here's a clue: they won't. Know why? Because that would spell doom for the elites as the people rise up against them.
The Internet is simultaneously the opium the elites need to keep us down, and the poison we will use to destroy the elites.
"Money CAN'T EXIST without physical intrinsic value"
Repeat after me (and Ludwig Von Mises): THERE. IS. NO. SUCH. THING. AS. INTRINSIC. VALUE.
Garbage.
Governments want people cut off so they will BEG for rescuring. WANT IT. DO IT FREQUENTLY.
Repeat after me:
PHYSICS IS INTRINSIC VALUE.
ALL PHYSICAL THINGS HAVE INTRINSIC VALUE FOREVER.
Those things which are MOST RARE AND MOST DURABLE have the MOST intrinsic VALUE. Intrinsic value is devoid of any opinion or belief, it is imbued by the LAWS OF PHYSICS.
yeah, the most rare and durable is the independent mind
THAT has the most intrinsic value
if you can't figure out BTC is everything you bugs ever wanted but are too scared to open your eyes too.. oh well.. stay stranded, the 'right' boat hasn't come to save you so you will sit till you rot
Almost. I wish there was a way to not have a blcok chain from the beginning of time so that every transaction can be traced.
The only thing I want in a currency is something untied to fiat units (btc exchanges are tied to fiat) and able to work with no electricity, no networks & no outsider interaction but the TWO parties required for a transaction - bitcoin is NONE of these things. Gold & silver are.
"Fiat money, in extremis, is accepted by nobody. Gold is always accepted." Remarks by Chairman Alan Greenspan Before the Economic Club of New York,
BTC has a long way to go before it gets anywhere near gold. The grid is an important weakness for BTC because it is easily compromised. Your personal opinion notwithstanding.
The fact that the grids probability of survival is not 100 % should be enough by itself to guarantee golds supremacy. However BTC does have ideal properties for use in long distance transactions that could complement golds use as the next global currency. Golds international portability has always been seen as one of its potential drawbacks, perhaps BTC has actually strengthened, rather than weakened golds outlook.
AU+BTC has the potential to make international trade, reliable, smooth, safe and customisable, all without the loving help of .GOV
What else could you possibly want?
So what the fuck is it? A good buy as you said just a few hours ago, or a stupid idea?
You may in fact be borderline multiple personality
I said gold and silver are probably undervalued now. But I don't think they're great long-term investments, because they aren't nearly as good as Bitcoin. Gold and silver are easily-confiscatable by governments. Bitcoin isn't.
Bitcoin is WORSE: it can both be blocked in activity (detecting packets & blocking EVERYTHING but validated content) AND it can be wiped out by EMP, stopped by network removal (bombs, fires, attacks of various sorts) AND when electricity is gone (it will be) bitcoin is GARBAGE, on TOP of the fact that the prevalent fiat-for-bitcoin exchanges permit those who print money (central banks) to buy ALL bitcoins for sale for ANY price then DUMP that price down to ZERO.
Instantly.
Bitcoin is no more useful for money than POCKET LINT.
Bitcoin is humanity's latest attempt to separate money and state, which is great. When money is freed, gold is always chosen as its best form.
I can simultaneously applaud the attempt while rejecting the bitcoin itself for its flaws.
The only way Bitcoin isn't easily confiscatable is if you don't use the internet, otherwise what is to stop it being stolen by some form of hacking the next time you log on?
Don't tell me it is hack proof, that is what they said about credit cards and internet banking.
At least with my physical they cannot steal what they cannot find (even if the snoops at NSA have tracked my purchases they cannot find where I stack it).
Won't help you when the grid goes down. It will.
Where I'll be with gold, foold & tools there won't BE a network to use bitcoin on.
Gold must be ready to move higher, the trolls have let the morons loose.
Its important to note that co-opting and corrupting language is a big part of the statist agenda. If you can redefine:
You will find it much easier to do pretty much any brand of theft you please...
Well said... if I may add another
ObamaCare as Health Care Reform
Yep . . . and aggressive pro-Isreal or oil country military invasion as "war on terrorism."
I don't get why anyone would give a crap if ownership of gold is legal or not. They have no idea what individual people have...let them come and search every house in the entire country to find illicit gold. Even then they wouldn't find any on my property...but that doesn't mean it isn't there. Or isn't somewhere on public land where only I could find it. Or, as many here like to imply, isn't at the bottom of a lake somewhere.
Gold isn't for use as a currency (except in extreme emergency) during a crisis or period of tyrannical government. It is a store of value, so that when things get back to "normal", you still have what you had before. Untaxed and uncut.
Simple, precise, perfect. +1
in SHTF you shoot your way THROUGH checkpoints with your gold.
...as regular republicans chose to raise the debt ceiling without condition (as everyone always knew they would).
I don't think zh (aka tylers) were as sure of it as the rest of us were.
Bloggers with Multiple Personality Disorder are allowed to express diverse opinions then claim they knew it from the start. I think that's in the ObamaCare bill but we'd need to read it to be sure.
the emerging markets are slowing down despite all the cash sloshing around...
more and more printing will not change the landscape, after a certain threshold, more debt is like cancer for developed or emerging markets..
they cannot continue with this chirade much longer, smthg has to give..or fed will end up owning the whole bond market..
the bond market is just a start. they will eventually own moar stocks, moar bondz, moar real estate, moar derivativez, etc., etc., than the rest of the world combined. moar bitchez.
A good number of people think stocks and gold are one way bets at the same fixed horse race.
Somebody is holding the winning ticket and somebody is holding a useless ticket.
"A good number of people think stocks and gold are one way bets at the same fixed horse race."
That is true only if you are referring to paper gold.
'And by "Free Markets," we mean a market that we are free to continue pillaging.'
Im so ready for this to be over. Im gonna go stock up on whiskey and cigarettes, lets do this.
I have plenty of tobacco seed, corn seed, and I understand malting, fermentation and distillation. I plan on being very popular when this ends, despite the fact that I cannot afford any major quantities of gold.
You forgot the sugar! Without a very quiet source for sugar busted!
That's why you malt the corn, but stop it soon. It creates Amalayse enzymes which break the corn starch into fermentable sugars. Then you grist and heat the mash to speed the reaction, and cool, add yeast and ferment.
consider bees? Honey's got sugar. Maybe you can't use it that way but then again, mead is made from honey. I'm sure whiskey will sell (barter) faster but now & then people will want a treat.
If it can be fermented, it can be distilled. I had a minted mead brandy once that was very, very good. A single malt connoisseur said that he liked it better than most single malts. Problem with that is that I'd have to grow mint, and that shit is like Attila the Hun in a garden.
But, I know next to nothing about bee keeping.
Actually looked into that. Ended up on Amazon. That made me balk. Recommend a seed distributor?
I get a lot of mine from local nurseries, including one that sells stuff that is either native or is has been bred for my climate. I also like nativeseeds.org, but again, that's stuff that is going to be for my climate. A lot of the heirloom seeds come from Oregon, so you know that they should grow in a Pacific Northwest or similar climate. I've been tempted to start going around to all of the reservations and beg for or buy seed. They grow a bunch of their own localized varieties. If you don't live in a hot climate, you might want to try Painted Mountain corn. It does well most places, but it didn't like 107f this summer. Next year, I'm going to plant in several successions just in case similar bullshit happens again.
You can do a google search for "heirloom corn" and check out all of the different places that sell it. I'm guessing that you don't want GMO shit, and if you do want to save your seed, hybrid corn can produce some wonky-ass results for the F2 and later generations due to the hybridization process used for commercial hybrid corn seed. They take two retardo-inbred lines and cross them.
I also save seeds too. I figure if it can't make it to seed, it doesn't belong in my garden as it is likely not adapted to my climate, soil, etc... This year was brutal for corn (and other things.) High heat at first, turning to above average moisture with one storm that produced hail and had winds clocked at over 90mph. Given that it damn near ripped some of my squash out of the ground, needless to say, the corn was not happy and produced maybe 5% what it should have, and that's being generous. You could walk into just about any nursery and hear gardeners bitching about the weather. Even my neighbour, who has been growing a lot of her own produce for several decades, was having problems.
If you save seed from corn, you need to worry about inbreeding depression. That means either adding some new genetics in every year, or planting at least 200 stalks and saving seed from at least 100. But, if you do it that way, one year of spending money on seed will produce enough to plant a whole lot of land.
cigarettes
bad idea...they go stale...(when i was a smoker and paying $2/carton, i had to keep them in the freezer so they'd stay fresh enough to smoke)...put it all in booze.
#1 have a nat-gas or propane powered freezer
#2 grow tobacco: now it WON'T be stale
Except that the destruction of the Red/Blue duopoly is the necessary first step to restore the republic and fiscal and monetary sanity.
Realignment of the parties should have happened after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and almost did with the GOP tidal wave of 1994. But Clinton shrewdly trianglated enough to appear moderate while at the same time the status quo mobilized to check actual reform. The result was blunting of very real opportunities to blow up farm supports, the FCC, revamp the tax code (recall the Kemp Commission leech) ultimately resulting in the death wish nomination of the uber Beltway insider, Bob Dole, for president in 1996. In retrospect, it was a masterful performance by the duopoly.
Next, actual policy was removed further from nation's political landscape with the Lewinsky scandal and general sex scandal fever in DC. This of course set the stage for the Red team's Clinton to emerge, seemingly organically for the duopoly dream match-up of House Gore vs. House Bush. The duopoly had all bets covered.
Suffice it to say that the destruction of the current GOP would likely produce some short-term benefit for gold et al. But as actual non-fascists re-grouped with an eye toward restoring the rule of law, you would be presented with a market timing problem.
Another year already baked in, and they've already declared the 'winner' of the red/blue WWF cage match....yea whatever.....well I'm not so sure about that. We now live in a time where the lifespan of everything is measured in hours. By next week some new 'crisis' will no doubt unfold and the last 2 weeks will be totaly forgotten. And remember, in just a couple months we get treated to this same WWF cage match ALL OVER again! I'm not placing bets on any of it.
Plus, in our present up is down world, gold would go down on war or anything else.
Stawks will keep rising no matter what, just as they did in Zimbabwe.
So high they were worthless
history repeats, 1995-1996 Newt Gingrich and now Boehner, they never learn and Obammy could reap that reward in 2014.
And the GOP middle of the roaders, the proud remnants of NWO domination before 2008 meltdown, those who were part and parcel of current Pax Americana, will blame the die hards : the Tea Party which has no base, an ageing Messiah now history, and an ideology that brings US presence down to zilch in foreign lands and cuts the federal budget to zero net deficit on a revised balancing act. The rabid right is totally daggers drawn with past momentum except on "drill baby drill" at home. Especially with "spend baby spend" on Entitlements as on MIC "gone mad".
That is something that the MIC/NSA/Google machine and tech oligarchy deniers, now part of the new plutocratic order, will NOT accept. "Our future is worldwide and we won't take no roll back."
If the TP has no political agenda that gets them elected in 2014 they will end up in the dustbin of US politics. Their current momentum does not spell, as for Gingrich, that they have a valid strategy to establish credibility in front of voters for 2014.
Politics stay politics in a democracy.
Hmmm... Between the Oil lobby of old days and the new Internet juggernaut, its gonna be difficult to cut the ground under the feet of this new offensive.
Print baby print stays the dream and they skim off the cream while the people go dry.
2014 will be all about Obamacare and it will not be pretty for the Debtocrats whether they are from the progressive side or the conservative bent.
We have seen the Republican 'Business/Wall Street' camp cave in repeatedly. Even though they claim to be against 'Big Government' they are 100% for 'Big Business' and care nothing about cutting spending. The only issues they fight for are reducing Wall Street oversight and keeping business taxes low (or full of loopholes). This is the Mc&Mc senate and the Boehner House camp. The Tea Party (at least the ones who have not been bought off) are the only ones who see the need to cut spending without raising taxes. This, of course, is easy to bash for other politicians and the MSM because cuts mean pain to someone. The Tea Party has to take over the leadership posts in Congress so that the Pro-Business group doesn't keep stabbing the Republican Party in the back. The 1990's were prosperous because Newt kept the Republicans together and stopped HillaryCare. Those were the days...
It's just the same old puppet show, and they'll once again pull the next spectacular false flag event and market crash 'no one saw coming' of course, right when everyone least expected it and was safely all-in...we just don't know when.
I do have some tea leaves you can read as well while trying to predict the future which seems to completely ignore gerrymandering and how amazingly difficult it has become for either party to lose a seat.
Gerrymandering is overrated. Any party can lose a seat in wave election years.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/10/11/gerrymandering_isnt...
I doubt that 2014 will be such a year, though. More likely it will leave the same parties in charge in both houses, and perpetuate the current stalemate. The Democrats have to pretty much bat 1000 to retake the House next year as there are only about 20 GOP seats in play - barring a massive wave. 2016 is likely to be the real contest.