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Obamacare’s Unintended Consequences: It’s Not Just A Technology Problem

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by F.F. Wiley of Cyniconomics

Obamacare’s Unintended Consequences: It’s Not Just A Technology Problem

Ron Suskind’s Pulitzer Prize-winning account of Barack Obama’s first two years in office, Confidence Men, tells the inside story of the wheeling and dealing that culminated in the Affordable Care Act (ACA). According to Suskind:

By the time it passed, almost no one could feel great about it. The process had been so ugly – and the end product so convoluted – that even its fiercest apologists would acknowledge that it was a bill that was only a start.

We’re now getting a good look at exactly what Suskind’s “start means, most recently with the launch of the insurance exchanges. Based on the latest reports, it appears to mean:

  • Crony capitalism – see this report from the Sunlight Foundation (h/t Arnold Kling).
  • Government secrecy – see this Wall Street Journal editorial.
  • Prioritization of election politics over policies – see this report in the National Review.
  • Inefficiencies and incompetence – see this article by Megan McArdle.
  • Alternative realities – see Jon Stewart’s interview with Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius on The Daily Show (more on this below).

Unfortunately, these aren’t the worst of our problems. The HHS’s amateur hour created quite a stir, but it will eventually pass. Whether in three months or three years, programmers will iron out the new system’s “glitches.” We’ll then be left with more threatening and far-reaching challenges, such as hiring disincentives and fiscal risks.

If you agree with this perspective, you may also agree that two of last week’s most relevant blog posts weren’t related to break-downs in the insurance exchanges. These are:

  • Tyler Durden parsed the Fed’s October 16th Beige Book release and found no less than eight references to the ACA’s effects on business activity. Here’s a typical observation reported by the Fed: “Many contacts also commented on reluctance to expand due to uncertainty surrounding the Affordable Care Act; some employers cut hours or employees.”
  • Durden also shared a table reported by J.P. Morgan’s Michael Cembalest comparing estimated and actual costs for five Medicare programs, one Medicaid program and the Massachusetts state health reform of 2006. The data shows actual costs exceeding estimates by 107%, 129%, 150%, 644%, 817%, 1600% and 20%, respectively. And yet, we’re expected to believe the administration’s highly politicized projections that the ACA will be deficit neutral.

We recommend checking out both posts. They suggest the most important question we should be asking is not the one that Stewart repeated several times while grilling Sebelius: “Businesses were given a delay of a year, but individuals were not given that option, why is that?”

The bigger question is: “If the administration messed up so badly on the seemingly mundane task of building a website, how much will Obamacare damage the broader economy and the nation’s long-term fiscal health?”

The Stewart-Sebelius interview drew attention to the second question only briefly, when Stewart mentioned that employers were converting full-time workers to part-time due to the ACA. But he failed to challenge Sebelius’ weak response that “economists – not the anecdotal folks – but economists say there’s absolutely no evidence that part-time work is going up.”

This is exactly where an informed and unbiased interviewer would have dug further to expose the truth.

Contrary to the administration narrative that Sebelius was parroting, we showed in “’Anecdote This,’ Dr. Furman” that the evidence of an ACA part-time worker effect is conclusive. Not only are reports from so-called “anecdotal folks” too pervasive to be credibly dismissed, but the claim that part-time work hasn’t “gone up” is just plain wrong. Even though most employers are unlikely to finalize policy changes this far ahead of the ACA’s postponed employer mandate, government data shows that part-time jobs jumped sharply in the quarter before the postponement, while full-time jobs stagnated.

Getting back to Suskind’s observation that the ACA was only a “start,” it appears to be a rocky start based on the exchanges fiasco. We should be even more concerned about the part-time worker effect, broader effects shown in the Beige Book, and the history of health program costs. These are a few of the many reasons to expect an even rockier road ahead.

 

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Sun, 10/20/2013 - 09:49 | 4073270 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Stewart is but a small deflector panel on the Great TBTF SHTF Event that is Obamacare.  Of course his questions are glancing.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:17 | 4073309 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I don’t buy the unintended part.

Not one bit.

This is an intentional CF designed to foist 30+ million low enders on the producers and the young and create chaos.

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." 

This is their mind-set.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:20 | 4073331 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Won't you please give to Ted Cruz today?

I know it's only one guy but maybe he can bring a Posse from Texas when he returns.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:55 | 4073339 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

 

This is exactly where an informed and unbiased interviewer would have dug further to expose the truth.

Not on television. 

Take the hedgeless_horseman challenge.

  • Give away your television(s) and replace with artwork.

Unlike the Federal Reserve Bank, The Federal Communications Commission, is a actually a government entity.  This interview would never be allowed to happen with an informed and unbiased interviewer.

Characteristics of Fascism

 

#6 Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

 

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

PS:  These people are so out of touch to think that small businesses are not going to take such obvious steps to cut costs. We have been telling them that is this exactly what we are doing since it was first passed.

 

 hedgeless_horseman                                                                      Fri, 06/29/2012 - 14:21

 

 

We used to pay for health insurance for all of our employees.  When the taxes increased with ObamaCare, we decided we did not need to pay twice, so we eliminated healthcare benefits and limited our companies (fired people) to below 50 employees.  Now, all those employees will have gone from getting free healthcare from their employer to paying a fine tax, and not having any healthcare benefits, because the fine will be less than the premiums.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:15 | 4073450 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

this will be the final straw that breaks the remaining middle class back and make us all criminals....when ur household is facing an additional 1000.00 per month extraction due to these cocksuckers something will give....

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:20 | 4073557 knukles
knukles's picture

Why, I ask, does any politician attempting to be taken seriously even consider appearances with Stewart?

Do they not understand, do they really wish to confirm their distance from reality?
Like never inhaling......

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:56 | 4073622 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

It’s easier to bug out or complain on blogs.

"The man who loves his country on its own account, and not merely for its trappings of interest or power, can never be divorced from it, can never refuse to come forward when he finds that she is engaged in dangers which he has the means of warding off."
--Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1797. ME 9:407

"Lethargy [is] the forerunner of death to the public liberty." --Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith, 1787.

"Very many and very meritorious were the worthy patriots who assisted in bringing back our government to its republican tack. To preserve it in that will require unremitting vigilance." --Thomas Jefferson to William T. Barry, 1822. ME 15:388

http://www.amazon.com/How-Run-Local-Office-Step-By-Step/dp/0966830407

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:04 | 4073637 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

1.   obamacare is just a stepping stone to single payer---thats why its doa to consumer

OR

2.  politicans are that fucking stupid to draft this absurd legislation

 

1 or 2?   or both?

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:46 | 4073704 imapopulistnow
imapopulistnow's picture

Its both.  Those who believe in government are not able to comprehend the complexities and unintended consequences of the programs that they enact.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 18:56 | 4074342 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Why would our peerless leaders understand these programs? They were passed out under the table while a lobbyist wrote the whole damned thing.

Better to ask the lobbyists what the 'unintended' consequences will be.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 17:00 | 4074078 jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

by this time next year, those same people who think obamacare is a good idea, will forget all that happened this year.  When brian williams and al sharpton tell them that the republicans screwed up obamacare and it cannot be fixed because the damn racists screwed it up permanently, they will just as easily buy in to national socialist (single payer) health care.

that

has been the plan from the beginning.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:11 | 4073735 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"It’s easier to bug out or complain on blogs.

"The man who loves his country on its own account, and not merely for its trappings of interest or power, can never be divorced from it, can never refuse to come forward when he finds that she is engaged in dangers which he has the means of warding off."
--Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1797. ME 9:407"

Thomas Jefferson was a slave holder.  He was a rapist.  He didn't believe in a savior so he believed in a piece of paper and the good will and better angels of man's nature.

He was a fool and a hypocrite.

Man himself has proven him wrong over the course of time.  He proved himself the hypocrite when he stated that all men are created equal.....when he held other men and women in bondage.

Don't you dare bring up that son of a bitch unless it's in the context of his crusade against National Banks and his feud with Hamilton.

Then we can have a conversation about that narrow subject.

Otherwise....Thomas Jefferson and his ideas are meaningless.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:20 | 4073898 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Try to keep some context in regard to world history and human events. Whats with the hachet job. Your ignorance of the facts on Jefferson and his entire body of work and life are staggering to say the least.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:45 | 4073952 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

My first book report was on Thomas Jefferson in the 1st grade in 1969 in my citizenship class.  That's right.  A wholly seperate class apart from history in my school back in the day.  I have read just about EVERY book directly about Jefferson and indirectly about him.....including his possible involvment with the murder of Meriwether Lewis of Lewis and Clark fame.

Jefferson's only contribution was to state the obvious "We Hold These Truths To Be Self Evident"

Everything else was a rehash and a mishmash of various political/philisophical/quasi-religious ideas and sentinments.

None of which have stood the test of time.....neither is bastardization of them.

Own it.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:58 | 4073972 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Yes, of course, how could I forget....Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, and Jumbrotron.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 19:05 | 4074357 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

So let me guess, Jumbrotron. Who's your constitutional hero? Marx? Stalin?

And whatever you do don't get involved, there's nothing you can do, stay home and watch TV, and don't seek inspiration from the founding fathers of the country.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 21:03 | 4074620 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"So let me guess, Jumbrotron. Who's your constitutional hero? Marx? Stalin?

And whatever you do don't get involved, there's nothing you can do, stay home and watch TV, and don't seek inspiration from the founding fathers of the country."

None of them.  Fuck them all.  Everyone....Marx, Stalin, Jefferson, Aristotle, Plato.....every single one a clueless utopian who have led 10's of BILLIONS of people down the primrose path through out time with the BIG LIE.

The lie that we are free and / or could ever be free.

Fuck America and fuck every other country as well.  Every one built upon the Big Lie. 

And don't even DARE bring up history with me bubba.  If you are too stupid to learn from history that history is LITTERED with the bones of people who believed in the BIG LIE and got involved only to see their Utopia crumble to the ground in their life time or their ancestors afterward then there is not much left for me to say to you. 

I believe in nothing but the truth....no matter how hard that is....no matter how hopeless that is.  And the truth is.....there is no freedom only limited permission for a limited time.  EVERY good idea will fall from grace and die in ruins.  America is lost and is never coming back.

And I am for one GRATEFUL that it is failing before the eyes of the SHEEPLE like you and the world.  Pretty soon we MAY....just MAY run out of ideas or permutations of ideas on how to build a utopia and just realize what miserable fucking creatures we are.

Then when we ALL realize we are EQUALLY miserable and EQUALLY shitty and EQUALLY worthless.....then real progress might be made.

Until then.....ASSHOLES like you will send their sons and daughters to the slaughter house of shitholes like Viet Nam and Cambodia and Iraq and Afghanistan to die for absolutely nothing but the whim of a fucking Utopia inspired by that fucking piece of shit Jefferson.


Sun, 10/20/2013 - 21:16 | 4074642 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Oh...and if you are going to go around and spout off about Thomas Jefferson......then you patriotic fucks need to grow some balls and go water the Tree of Liberty with some Tyrant Blood.

Your man Jefferson thought that Revolution would need to happen every 20 years or so....because even HE knew the absolute shittiness of man's corrupt nature and not even the idea of AMERICA could combat that.

But you fucks will not do a thing but bitch on this site and suck Ted Cruz's dick

Fuck you all......cowardly hypocrites.  Why don't you go vote or something......that should REALLY do the trick.  LOL !!!!

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 00:05 | 4075052 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Cowardly hypocrites? LOL, let me file you away into the "tough talking internet group".

Moar importantly, what the fuck are YOU doing you asshole?

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 01:26 | 4075166 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

I am doing nothing...just like you.  More importantly I am doing nothing WORTHLESS which is more than can be said about you.  Voting , caring, LOL !   At least when I masterbate I have something to show for it.

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 00:06 | 4074992 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

The truth is subjective. Your truth is different from mine.

I'm not miserable, I'm not shitty or worthless. I work for a positive change in our community and it can happen without a bloody revolution. The BIG TRUTH is how little we have to do to have a positive impact. But it won't happen if everyone is satisfied to stay ranting in the comments section of blogs.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:29 | 4073788 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Oh, just go back and look at his 'interview' with Condi Rice.

They had such a jolly time laughing together about killing Muslims. Great visual when you want to be seen as condial and happy.

Health insurance industry's just not got enough of the right people benefitting.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 18:59 | 4074348 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

While I know there's not really any demarcation between news and entertainment anymore, I would like to have everybody remember that Jon Stewart is a COMEDIAN, not a journalist.

But despite that, his interviews generally contain less spoon feeding of the day's dominant paradigm than those of most of the 'news' outlets.

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 07:56 | 4075474 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Stewart is a horrific 911 truth denier who outrageously mocked the 911 truth activists who were trying to reach him, and his brother is, well, Larry Leibowitz, COO of the NYSE. Uh-huh. With a resume that you'd expect from such a ....

http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news596_jonstewart.html

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:39 | 4073595 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

The middle class must be destoyed.  It cannot be us versus them in society with a big happy, middle class sitting out of the conflict.  

So bust the middle class and force them to become a member of the only side that they can afford.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:54 | 4073718 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

It's the commie way or the highway.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:36 | 4073804 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

Actually, neofeudalism.

A small privileged group owning everything, including those outside the group.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 17:01 | 4074080 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Actually, we are both right.  You can call it communism, neofeudalism, fascism, etc. but there are only two forms of government:  1)  People on top, government on bottom or 2)  Government on top, people on bottom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qszo8u1m9ZQ

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 17:56 | 4074224 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Good stuff, check tis one out...on youtube.

 

John Taylor Gatto - The Scientific Management of Children

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UadPqGscfI

 

...may have to rewind to beginning

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:46 | 4073511 walküre
walküre's picture

Government never fails to get in the way of some good ole' American entrepreneurship. HH, there's only one way to do business in the US. The clues are in the final years of the dying Soviet Empire and how Russian entrepreneurs beat the system and came out ahead after the collapse.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 19:01 | 4074351 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

From my perspective, most of the 'Russian engrepreneurs' were simply well connected thieves who made off with government assets under their stewardship when the government went away.

How does this differ from the modern Amerika?

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:36 | 4073364 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Won't you please give to Ted Cruz today?

I know it's only one guy but maybe he can bring a Posse from Texas when he returns.

 

Ted Cruz is a charlatan like all the rest of them.  He saw a crisis.....and HE didn't let it go to waste by his grandstanding knowing FULL WELL he would suffer NO political consequences back home AND that it would drive campaign donations to his coffers which allows him to keep his job.

Congratulations.....you fell for it.  And for God's sake can we please stop the whole Texas worship thing already.  Texas isn't going to do shit but continue to give us the likes of George W. Bush, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Ann Richards, Tom Delay, Rick Perry <LOL> .....plus the greatest export of them all......a bunch of rootin' tootin' talk meaning nothing.   In other words.......BULL shit !

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:59 | 4073387 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

Dude.....we have to go with someone.....and Saul Alinsky is dead.

 

You have someone better in mind....lets hear it. I'm not expecting it cause the second you name a name you know you'll be screwed.

I'm sticking with Ted.....he's got a cool dad. I'd rather have Ted's dad....but I don't think he's running for anything.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:30 | 4073486 Keyser
Keyser's picture

I was in the Cruz camp too, until I found out his wife is a director at GS. No shit. 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:23 | 4073566 knukles
knukles's picture

Just think of all the material nonpublic insider information put to good use in Ted's account, all without sin... well, without penalties.

Ah, the dispensation of indulgences
a fascinating concept to be clearly understood within the context of Martin Luther's theses as may truly be applied to our modern condition

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:23 | 4073567 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

She works for Goldman Sachs AND the CFR

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Heidi-Cruz-wife-of-Ted-Cruz-works-for?pa...

 

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:26 | 4073572 knukles
knukles's picture

Number one example of (should be) guilt by association.
About as far down that rabbit hole as she can get, no?
Well, at least that of which we are aware.
Got New World Order?

....think about the lore surrounding the coming of the anti-Christ, heralded as a savior of the people....

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:11 | 4073644 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Cruz cut his teeth with Bush, Cheney and Boehner. We dont even need to talk about his insider trading crime syndicate wife.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:57 | 4073724 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

You are (I firmly believe) on to something Sir.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:26 | 4073781 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Gotta go with who is already out there or name somebody yourself. Haven't seen anything to deter me from Cruz yet. Dig up some 'dirt' on some other senator's families and ties --start with Corzine, Clinton, Feinstein, Kerry, Schumer. Don't ever stop. 

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 19:04 | 4074356 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Let's all pretend it doesn't matter which syncophant the voters choose from the Owners' sausage machine. Then we can vote for Mickey Mouse with a clear conscience, just like in the good old days.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:03 | 4073633 JR
JR's picture

Cruz took a chance and that’s how he does everything. I’ve seen him since he first got elected to the Senate. Carville’s analysis of him is accurate, he’s fearless. He’s not afraid of losing his job, or of mockery or of people yelling at him. So far he’s helped us tremendously. At this point I don’t care what his wife does; he single handedly created this spotlight on Obamacare. Single handedly he nailed it on the Democrats. It’s as if the Dems were a door and he walked up and nailed Obamacare on it.

And that’s an accomplishment.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:12 | 4073647 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

JR, I respect your views on lots of things, but you are wrong on the GOP. It is 100% controlled opposition.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:55 | 4073719 JR
JR's picture

No quarrel from me on that, Bay, except on the 100%. It’s time to crack it wide open. I saw what that controlled opposition did to Ron Paul – twice – and forced Romney and McCain on us.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:18 | 4073903 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Fair enough. You find someone worthy of support besides Cruz, let me know.

After what I saw what they did to RP, I cut the GOP loose. I just dont see how you can reform something so rotten and corrupt.

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:15 | 4073754 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Nah, not 100% at all.

There's real GOP infighting going on with a lot of nasty things being exchanged behind the scenes.  McCain hates CRuz and vice versa. Old GOP is dead. A new GOP will hopefully emerge to stop the one party system before it is killed in the crib.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:12 | 4073883 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

With "Green Egss  &  Ham"? Instead of the Constitution?

Why, even Henry eats ham. 

ROFLMAO

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:09 | 4073745 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I'm still way good with Cruz.

The real assholes hate Cruz so much we can all see how they have mobilized the entire propaganda machine against him. The assholes are telling you who the good guys are and who they fear the most. Cruz graduate top of his law class at Harvard and was the debate champion. Plus, he is fearless and Hispanic. TPTB are very afraid of him.

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:43 | 4073950 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

i tend to agree, although the really close GS connection does worry me quite a bit.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:29 | 4073672 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"You have someone better in mind....lets hear it. I'm not expecting it cause the second you name a name you know you'll be screwed."

There IS NOTHING better, my friend.  And I ALREADY KNOW  I'm screwed.  It happened the day I was born.  We are all born on a Prison Planet.  It's due to inate, irrevocable human corruption......some would call that sin.

YOU are the one who is delusional and because of such you are MORE screwed than the rest......all huffin' and puffin' about this right or that.....this fella or that.

You have NO RIGHTS......let me repeat......NO......RIGHTS.  You only have LIMITED PERMISSIONS from your OWNERS.  You only have rights if you are a OWNER too.....(and no....I don't me the owner of a little piece of hard scrabble land or a business.  You pay property tax on that land and/or home and tax on your business.....so even then you don't really own anything....you rent from the government)

No....a REAL OWNER ......a MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE.  You're not.....therefore you are a slave like the rest of us. 

But hey.....relish this notion.  You are free in this sense. You are free to be self deluded.  I guess that's why they call ignorance bliss.

So go ahead.....follow your bliss to Texas and Ted Cruz.  Good luck keeping that bliss.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:48 | 4073830 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I agree with you, but unless someone is in prison (true slavery) our condition of servitude more closely parallels that of serfs. While we are not tied to the land (though I believe that in the not too distant future our ability to travel will be severely restricted) the portion of our production that we owe to our lord is probably a greater burden, and we have more than one lord requiring a cut. While a serf paid a fee to marry and was fined for infractions against rules (the lords, of course, exempted themselves from such concerns), we pay fees on everything; every activity and interaction has fees. Other than breathing and sex, I can't think of any activity that does not include a tax of some sort (though in truth we all pay for sex in one way or another). I imagine they'll give us a carbon tax soon and then the very breath we exhale will be taxed.    

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:51 | 4073965 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Serfdom....Slavery.

I get you.  Technically you are most correct.  But in my opinion, and for most of the folks here on ZeroHedge......it's a fine line looking for a distinction.

You are COSMICALLY, METAPHYSICALLY correct about sex.  You WILL pay one way or the other.  LOL !

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 16:37 | 4074034 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

It is not such a fine distinction as you might think. Enslavement connotes the ownership of much more than a portion of one's production, but ownership of one's very person, a thing much more specifically intimate and intrusive. What we have here is a more feudal system, but our feudal lord is the state. The parallels are quite striking. Particularly in the later period, a serf could become successful, even wealthy, adding greatly to his lord's wealth in the process. 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 21:10 | 4074637 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"The parallels are quite striking. Particularly in the later period, a serf could become successful, even wealthy, adding greatly to his lord's wealth in the process. "

And that's where the analogy fails.....for you are never free to become the lord.  And even if you were....you would be bound in the chains of a lordly mindset that somehow you were above it all.....that you did it yourself.....and worse still....what you would then have to do to your fellow serfs below you to keep your status.

It's all slavery in the end my friend.....even for the slaveholder or lord.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:47 | 4073394 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

i think the fact that right wing made such a huge stink over the ACA in context of the debt limit may actually help at some point.  maybe.

 

aw shit who am i kidding, there aren't enough people paying attention, if there were we wouldn't be in this huge fucking hole to begin with.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:24 | 4073475 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Fed, 

 

Sorry I didn't catch your point, I was watching DTWS.  Do you mean this health care isn't free?  

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:45 | 4073506 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Of course it's free. .gov found a bunch of doctors who will work for nothing. s/

 The free shit army dines on the free lunch.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:26 | 4073573 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Don't worry. In 2014 the public will get more reminders than they can stomach that Obamacare passed without a single republican vote. But that was all theatre, right? The two parties weren't actually at odds over the legislation, they got together and planned it that way.

That vote should put the lie to the idea that there is no difference between the parties. Here's the fundamental difference: the GOP has some principles but is stupid and gutless. The Demonrat Cockbags are the essence of evil, they literally hate all humans who aren't part of their looting cabal, and they hate every scintilla of meaningful individualism. Their idea of freedom and individualism is running around with your pants down.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:36 | 4073931 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

the party leadership are a bunch of dead-eyed progressive whores just like the democrats.  there are differences yes, from the bottom up not the top down.  and fwiw, the grassroots of both parties have more in common with each other than they do with their respective leadership.  well, most of them anyway.

me, i'm hopelessly stuck in the middle.  i'm agnostic on all of the big social bullshit issues and very financially conservative.  which makes me polar opposites with all of the bible thumping statist lint lickers around here, bless their shriveled little hearts.  but when you get right down to it, i think just about everyone can agree they'd like to be left the fuck alone to do what they want on a local level.  ok state level, let's not get too carried away.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:24 | 4073473 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

I like Ted,met him in 2012 before the first primary for his senate race. He his bright, sincere ( a greatly over rated trait I know) and at least on the right side.

I'm not sure if his fillibuster was a good play but at least he tried and the world knows which side he is on.

My rep voted for the NSA funding bill a few months ago and he is supposed to be 'conservative'. I guess the $79,000 he got from the MIC tainted his 'conservative'.

My favorite is Grover Norquist, he heads the 'Leave Us Alone' coalition. The Dems can't duplicate that because they are all about splitting up the pie. Grover is trying to keep the pie off the table.

As long as our government has near infinite money from the Fed's willingness to buy bonds, we will likely see the Dems winning. It is hard to compete with Santa Claus. When the dollar dies we will again have a chance to return to sanity....hopefully then we will.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:49 | 4073517 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> My favorite is Grover Norquist

Yeah, now there's a billionaire who cares about J6P.  As long as you're humping your ass off for the man, and paying double or triple the taxes him and his buds pay, you're ok. Get old, sick, or step off the treadmill that powers his wealth creating dynamo for one moment and he'll gladly thow you and you're whole family under the bus.  Yea, old Grover, a real swell guy.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:18 | 4073659 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I dunno, I always liked Randy Savage the best.

 

Oh wait, are we discussing a different show?

My bad.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:40 | 4073694 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"My favorite is Grover Norquist

Yeah, now there's a billionaire who cares about J6P.  As long as you're humping your ass off for the man, and paying double or triple the taxes him and his buds pay, you're ok. Get old, sick, or step off the treadmill that powers his wealth creating dynamo for one moment and he'll gladly thow you and you're whole family under the bus.  Yea, old Grover, a real swell guy."

That guy is a true piece of shit.  I used to worship him back in the day.  Now.....after coming out of the Matrix....I now know he's just a spokeswhore for the Masters of the Universe.

Fuck him.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:41 | 4073598 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

We always talk about splitting the pie.

What about a few steps to make the damn thing bigger?

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:36 | 4073685 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Who wants a bigger vomit pie to cut into more pieces?

How about curbing your appetite?  Push yourself from the damn table.

Walk away.  Walking is good for the mind.....it's good for the belly.

Metaphorically or physically....either way......walking away is a good thing.

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:22 | 4073769 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

No. A rising tide doesn't raise all boats.

 

Them as got shall get

Them as not shall lose

So the Bible says

And it still is news.

 

Technically, if the members of an ingroup have control over the means of distribution, and suffer no restraint on how that control is used, the percentage they retain or claim will grow without bound, no matter the needs of the outgroup. In other words, the greedy fuckers want it all, and these days, they're getting it all.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:54 | 4073969 Jumbotron
Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:46 | 4073827 scraping_by
scraping_by's picture

"Grover is trying to keep the pie off the table."

Off the table and firmly in the hands of the rich. Large multinational coporations and their local fanchisees.

But, we're honored to have a billionaire post on ZH. It gets old hearing from working class stooges who keep saying 'we' about things that benefit the rich and the expense of the middle class.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 14:51 | 4073564 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

So better that Cruz had just shut up? Should Cruz stop talking about the constitution too?

Do you really think the country would look the same under President Cruz as it would under Obama? Would we have Obamacare?

I'm sick and tired of the 'no difference between the parties' crap. Here's a small list of what the left would do if they were unopposed:

Internet taxes, carbon taxes, more stimulus, more and massive green energy subsidies, much higher taxes, more Davis Bacon like legislation, more teachers, more cops, municipal and state bailouts, more TSA, government pension bailouts, eliminating private gun ownership. 

The good isn't always the enemy of the perfect.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:49 | 4073400 garcam123
garcam123's picture

Can we get the vet over there and castrate it so it can't breed anymore inbreds!

 

Jusus Christ, how can ANYONE consider this turd reasonable?

 

Just another opinion, NOT from gerrymandered Amerika!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:49 | 4073401 garcam123
garcam123's picture

Can we get the vet over there and castrate it so it can't breed anymore inbreds!

 

Jusus Christ, how can ANYONE consider this turd reasonable?

 

Just another opinion, NOT from gerrymandered Amerika!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:13 | 4073319 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Economists also say printing money is a good strategy. Probably same economists

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:14 | 4073322 Oquities
Oquities's picture

stewart's bias is so strong, that it pains him when he is forced by their blatant ineptness and idiocy, to take on the democrats.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:32 | 4073491 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Stewart is the poster child for the liberals. for him to even raise the question is indication that there is trouble in paradise. This turd called the ACA will fall flat on it's face in early 2015. 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:23 | 4073568 Bad Attitude
Bad Attitude's picture

This turd called the ACA will fall flat on it's face in early 2015.

ACA/Obamacare/National-Socialist-health-rationing - whatever you want to call it - may be a failure, but it will not fail. Failure just means the regime didn't try hard enough. The liberal/progressive answer to government failure is more government.

Forward (over the cliff).

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:55 | 4073715 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

It won't fail, it will just GET MORE and more of YOUR hard earned money. And even more devestating: more of your FREEDOM. Completing your transition into government slave.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:43 | 4073699 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Little john is all part of 'it'.

It would be fair to assume that little john's CFR member brother is part of 'it' also.

Just sayin'

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 08:05 | 4075485 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Yes, once again, they are Leibowitz brothers, VERY well connected.

 http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news596_jonstewart.html

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 09:49 | 4073272 MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

It seems anything except unrestricted, monopolistic, price colluding, private healthcare will be sabotaged, bad mouthed, mismanaged, and generally doomed to failure. It would have been nice if all the critics had pushed for single payer from the start. Now we're fucked. Thanks.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:39 | 4073359 bugfixx
bugfixx's picture

How can you put "monopolistic" and "unrestricted" in the same sentence? The current system fails because of insurer price collusion, regulations on where insurers can do business and what services must be insured and lack of transparency in pricing. Single payer just leads to rationing and poor quality for all. Tear down the laws that protect the insurer oligarchy, mandate transparency in pricing and medical care costs will fall.  That will never happen with our bought-and-paid-for Congress and Administration and what else should we expect from Obamacare when that chick from WellPoint wrote the ACA law?

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:50 | 4073397 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Add to that the need for the now non-existent  evaluation of medical practice effectiveness in preventing and treating illness.

Cause as it stands now, there is virtually no control over what really works and what doesn't in medicine except for malpractice suits.

Start tracking what and who and where the best medical results are found and costs will comes down.

But sadly there's a ton of money made now by the medical providers in being as inefficient as they can be to cause greater amounts of secondary treatments. 

How about medical treatment warranties!?

I can hear the health care provideres howling now!!

But oh, when their BMW breaks down again for the same repair they just had done on it....

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:44 | 4073504 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Headbanger, 

 

Your analysis is painfully inadequate.  Costs have skyrocketed because of the intrusion of gubmint into healthcare that has skewed the pricing.  Please see "college tuition" for verification.  This health care provider graduated med school in 1994 with $70,000 in total debt between college and grad school.  My older siblings worked their way through college with part time jobs.  Now a student will have $100k in undergrad costs, $250k from medical school.  You cannot get me to believe that the tuition change from my last year of medical school, $14,000 to now: $40,000, reflects the actual value of the education.   The same applies with health care costs and insurance.  Absolutely no f'ing way that the charges reflect reality. 

For you assertion about malpractice suits, I guess if you believe that all lawyers are altruistic then it could be true.  In reality plaintiff lawyers review approximately 60-70 claims for every case they bring forward, and of those complaints only 4% go to trial.  The only way malpractice suits affect medical practice is the unbelievable amount of defensive medicine that occurs, estimated to be $300 billion/ year in a study made by Jackson and Associates approx 5 years ago, althoug it go zero publicity.  

As for health care warranties, I think they would be appropriate as long as the user does not violate the terms and conditions of the contract.  Good luck with that.  There is a great sucking sound in primary care as all the good doctors leave to set up their concierge practices.  Another unanticipated effect of ACA?  You betcha.  

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:58 | 4073420 monoloco
monoloco's picture

We already have a single payer system at the VA, and it scores consistantly higher in patient care than the private insurance based care the rest of us depend on.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:07 | 4073439 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Public hospitals also have a higher survival rates than private ones.

Question: Do you want the treatment the Hospital is making the most money on or do you want the best treatment for what you have and do YOU know the difference?

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:37 | 4073942 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

BF, 

Neither has your best interest at heart. The treatment protocol is set by a team of Drs. e.g. Lyme disease is a two week course of antibiotics, no more or they will run the Dr. out of business for not obeying the protocol. For chronic lyme which many have because a plain ol vanilla MD is not adept at diagnosing it, you may need a course of AB's for a year & IV to boot. 

So, to quote Carlin---------The game is rigged folks, the table is tilted. 

It's a big fucking club, & you ain't in it.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:35 | 4073495 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Yeah, we have a VA system here in the west too. Fine if you have 5 months to wait for an appointment. Then when surgery day finally comes, you go under the knife of some medical student who is operating for the first time. You can only hope it isn't the class dunce.

 

Oh, and who "scores" this system? The system itself? I kinda prefer the independent internet system of reviews and ratings, but then I'm not a paid blog commenter.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:40 | 4073597 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

The only system the lowers costs and improves quality is the free market, where consumers connect directly with vendors.

Want lower cost and better health care than anywhere on the planet? Ban all but catasrophic insurance, institute medical savings accounts for all, and get some kind of triage involved in the system: 5% of people account for 50% of all health care costs. How many of those people would opt for pain management and hospice if their heirs were given some kind of stipend or life insurance payout? Does it really make sense to spend millions to extend the life of someone who has already lived longer than average, just so that they can drool, poop their pants, and watch TV all day for a few more years? What if they've spent most of their adult lives _choosing_ to abuse their bodies and minds? Are we perpetually on the hook for them until they're in the ground? It seems that if personal responsibility is a virtue, it should somehow enter into this debate. (cue talk of death panels and gas chambers).

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:41 | 4073697 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Sterling, 

 

Up arrow for your uncommon insight into health insurance.  I always thought that instead of Obamacare that the gubmint should provide coverage for the approx 8 million "uninsurable" in the US and require those opting not to have health insurance to buy catastrophic coverage.  I visited a small hospital in Arkansas that had over $3 million in write offs from uninsured patients and two thirds of that amount came from only ten patients.  

I'd give you another up arrow for the HSA if I could, it's amazing how much more attention you give to medical costs when it is your money that is being spent.  

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:04 | 4073858 Jena
Jena's picture

I completely agree with the concept of catastrophic coverage and health savings acccounts.  The way our society spends  healthcare dollars in the last months of a person's life is a sad commentary, indeed.  If a sick person's family spent more time witnessing what actually happens behind the curtain in an ICU, they'd be more receptive to changing the status of their doomed love one to that of NO CODE, once they've clearly reached the point of no return.  But they don't, often because they don't hear, or don't want to hear the truths they are told by the doctors and nursing staff caring for the patient.

(Get your living wills and medical power of attorney in order, just in case.  You don't want to be the person attached to machines being kept alive for months despite raging infection and other insults.  Put the name and number of that person in your phone under ICE: In Case of Emergency.  That is where Emergency Personnel will look for it, if someone is not readily available.  Keep a copy with your primary doctor as well.)

Modern medicine:  Just because we can doesn't mean we should.

(Note:  This is different than the beaurocrats in Washington D.C. deciding what treatments are available to someone and overriding that person's choice and doctor's recommendation for a given ailment.  I believe that is coming with Obamacare and that will be unfair to perfectly healthy people who don't  fit the ideal model under the ACA guidelines.  Best practices are one thing but there also ought to be some leeway for individual circumstances when they do not work for the person in question.)

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:11 | 4073879 Jena
Jena's picture

Oh, one more thing.  The nightmare scenario for the administration is that no healthy person is going to sit around and check 40 times to see if the web site is working.  They might give it a shot here and there but it's not a priority for them. Yet they are the dream Obamacare consumer.  If they don't sign up, the plan implodes.  

The person who has plenty of time to jump through the hoop of the site glitches is the sick and disabled person with pre-existing conditions who will be a drag on the overall program.  They have a lot of motivation to sit and retry the site until they create an account, keep trying until they get through to see the rates and continue on to see if they qualify for a subsidy and then whatever they have to do to actually purchase the plan.

I bet we see a delay in the timeline of the requirements for enrollment and even a delay in the penalty because from what I've read about the site it is a bigger mess than anyone imagined.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 18:51 | 4074331 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Totally agree. I have always wanted to have family members be present when they have insisted a full code on 85 year old grandma. I've seen enough broken sternums. "Save grand ma at all costs" is very gruesome. No, I don't believe government should be in charge of such matters but people need to get their heads out of the sand and face reality. The only tattoo I've ever considered is "No Code" on my chest. I love my family and my life but I've seen enough torture to know I don't want heroic methods. I think the problem here is ignorance. Then the decision is thrust on someone when they aren't prepared. We have an advantage Jena in that we have been exposed to this in our work.

Miffed;-)

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:33 | 4073678 expatrader
expatrader's picture

Hola Cuz. Keepin it real on the ZH.

Come on up and face the ACA like a man /sarc

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:34 | 4073361 garcam123
garcam123's picture

I couldn't agree more!

The bill wasn't written by Obama. 

It was fashoned by healthcare and Big Pharma to line their pockets even more than they do now along with the additional government intrusions into our lives.

We need to fire all of these incompetent criminals in Washington, take our government back and establish a single payer system for the benefit of all Americans.

These cons in Washington anr part and parcel the representatives of all of the doctors in this country who think they are privelidged and ARE the 1 %!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:34 | 4073362 garcam123
garcam123's picture

I couldn't agree more!

The bill wasn't written by Obama. 

It was fashoned by healthcare and Big Pharma to line their pockets even more than they do now along with the additional government intrusions into our lives.

We need to fire all of these incompetent criminals in Washington, take our government back and establish a single payer system for the benefit of all Americans.

These cons in Washington anr part and parcel the representatives of all of the doctors in this country who think they are privelidged and ARE the 1 %!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:10 | 4073443 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Who gives a shit what lobbyists wrote it.

To the statists mind, Pelosi passed it, Reid passed it, Obama signed it and the SCOTUS said its just a tax so they were permitted to do so.

So they passed a massive tax increase on the American people disguised as "health insurance".

Its no more complicated than that.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:49 | 4073614 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

And, got rid of the debt ceiling as an added bonus/matter of course.

Thank god for the likes of Cruz and Paul - it coulda been so much worse.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:13 | 4073447 Abaco
Abaco's picture

You mean unrestricted in the sense that we are restricted from buying health insurance policies from whomever we want? You mean unrestricted in the sense that that the government makes it more cost effective for an individual to get their health insurance through their employer (tax deductability) rather than purchasing it directly and have price transparency? You mean unrestricted in the sense that insurers are effectively prohibited through regulation from providing high deductible catastrophic health insurance? You mean unrestricted in the sense that tort lawyers have free reign to bring bogus malpractice suits without consequence if they lose due to the effective bribery of the trial lawyers guild? I get it - government directs the private sector and the private sector get's the blame for all bad consequences of government policy. Nice fantasy world you have there.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:18 | 4073459 Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

Single payer is not monopolistic? Hoookay. Wattever.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 09:49 | 4073273 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

You didn't create that part time job. 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:23 | 4073337 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Great....part time jobs for everyone and less health insurance for former full time jobbers.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:04 | 4073432 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." 

"We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It"

Most all of the crises we have faced are manufactured.

The country survived without Obamacare for +224 years.

But it looks it will die under Obamacare.

-From Bart Chilton’s former boss and future client (2008):

Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis
After decades of failed incremental measures, the American health-care system remains fundamentally broken and requires a comprehensive fix.

http://www.amazon.com/Critical-What-About-Health-Care-Crisis/dp/B004JU1S4Y

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:18 | 4073555 Flagit
Flagit's picture

"We Have to Pass the Bill So That You Can Find Out What Is In It"

how much more do people need to hear?

and she still keeps her fucking job?

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 09:52 | 4073275 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

“economists – not the anecdotal folks – but economists say there’s absolutely no evidence that part-time work is going up.”

Here are the facts:

Report: 97 percent of new US jobs are part-time


By Shannon Jones 
14 August 2013


Behind the job figures of recent months lies an underlying reality of continued hardship for millions of unemployed and partially employed workers in the United States.

US employers added 162,000 nonfarm jobs in July according to the government’s Establishment Data Survey, an anemic number considerably below predictions. However, a closer look reveals another serious problem.

“Over the last six months, of the net job creation, 97 percent of that is part-time work,” said Keith Hall, a senior researcher at George Mason University’s Mercatus Center quoted byMcClatchy Washington Bureau. Hall was head of the US Bureau of Labor (BLS) Statistics from 2008 to 2012.

Citing the BLS Household Survey, Hall said that over the past six months 963,000 more people reported that they were employed while 936,000 of them reported they were in part-time jobs. Hall continued, “That is a really high number for a six-month period. I am not sure that has ever happened over six months before.”

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/14/jobs-a14.html

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:33 | 4073358 Brett Merkey
Brett Merkey's picture

 

 

Facts are facts and they are damning.

The move to a more part-time work force began long before ACA but ACA will accelerate the trend. There is no way around the explicit wording of this healthcare travesty: it gives financial and bureaucracy-avoidance incentives to employers to push more employees into part-time limbo.

For some time now, many economists and financial analysts (John Mauldin comes to mind) have been warning us about this aspect of ACA. Further destruction of the right to a full-time paycheck for a full work week is clearly an intended consequence.

Let us not let the administration and Congress off the hook for catering to the biggest players in the healthcare insurance industry.

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:46 | 4073381 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

"full-time paycheck for a full work week"

This is a point often overlooked about "part-time" workers: they get paid a partial paycheck but are quite often expected to fulfill productivity requirements equal to full-time employees. Too many people do a full work week in objective productivity but receive something which is not a full-time paycheck--nor benefits nor the respect that comes with being integrated into the rest of the work force.

Obama and Congress passed a law written by people who wrote the law for their own financial benefit.

 

 

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:02 | 4073431 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Obama and Congress passed a law written by people who wrote the law for their own financial benefit.

 

Why do you think McConnell and McCain want to keep it so bad? They don't argue when it comes to their wallets.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:05 | 4073436 Abaco
Abaco's picture

How do you measure a full week in objective productivity?

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:58 | 4073530 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

Maybe that is best answered by academic economists. However, I saw it every week as a Web application designer for a company monopolistically dominant in its field. Co-workers who were officially part-time always contributed, and were expected to contribute, equally with others.

I did not escape this either. I was full-time--but often managers would agree among themselves to divide my time "on a part-time basis". More than once I would have 3 or 4 managers expecting "50% assigned hours" of my time. Key workers always have more than 100% of their time divided.

Don't think for a moment that the "speed up" in our society only affects the marginal workers...

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:43 | 4073384 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"The move to a more part-time work force began long before ACA but ACA will accelerate the trend."

Yeah, Obamacare isn't the only reason to shift work to part time.  But it is quickly becoming the biggest nail in the coffin.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:40 | 4073374 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I caught a bit of this part time job discussion on "Meet the Press" and one of the sychophant reporters said there was no clear evidence and that this move to part time jobs has been going on for some time. Simply amazing the lengths these people will go to in order to defend the progressive policies. I've never seen anything quite like it in my lifetime anyway.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 09:52 | 4073277 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Mitt Romney Central website says that RomneyCare is working in Massachusetts after 7 years. No user wants to return to the old system. The bottom of the website shows all the reasons ObamaCare won't work and it's the usual Faux Nes BS: opinion presented as fact (see Marco Rubio), distortions, lies, half-truths.

ObamaCare today should be compared to RomneyCare during its week 4 rollout. Someone needs to learn common sense and arithmetic. You don't compare "all of the United States" to Massachusetts RomneyCare. You count the Massachusetts population, and then you only look at the same numbers in each state, not in the total US.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:03 | 4073294 rationaldemocracy
rationaldemocracy's picture

Bingo

Obamacare sounds good to me. Most Americans should actually research what Obama has achieved so far. First he managed to feed Americans, now he is providing health care to those who could not previously afford it.He also pulled out of Iraq and next he will provide amnesty for 10 million future Americans thus entirely solving the whole immigration issue. Why is he a bad guy again? Because he looks after the people at the bottom and not after the bottom line?.

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:10 | 4073310 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

I hope you're being sarcastic...

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:13 | 4073317 rationaldemocracy
rationaldemocracy's picture

Sarcastic ? no

I know it looks bad but just hold on for a little bit longer, things may be bad now but there will be some changes in the future which may seem to be at odds with your point of view but which will be for the better for all of us.

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:24 | 4073342 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I know it looks bad

 

Then it's probably bad.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:31 | 4073354 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

If it looks like dog pile, smells like dog pile, and attracts flies, we should avoid smearing it on our morning toast.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:15 | 4073451 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Obama is a lying communist sack of shit.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:45 | 4073388 garcam123
garcam123's picture

I think Obama is well intentioned and I hope that he will use the rest of his term to expose the right and, seemingly most of the psuedo-intellectual slugs here, of the weakness of their small government arguments while they drive on the roads we provide them and use the infrastructure they so disdain and won't pay to maintain......bunch of whining pussies in my view.

 

Why don't you slugs work to make services available to all Americans and still be able to feed their families after an illness?

The one right we have in Amerika is that you can go destitute nearly overnight and now one will give a shit about you or what matters to you and your family.  Christian nation?  With the likes of Bachman and the rest of these kooks?

How can you think you are serious when you support Palin.  Palin????, Backmann????, Cruz?????

They all belong in an asylum, not Congress!  And gerrymandering? Should be outlawed at once by unamious consent TODAY!  It is a crime against the Amereican people, both republican and democrat!  They don't deserve to be capitalized, trash.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:57 | 4073417 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Third pro-Obamacare troll in the same thread.  This one's a deep plant- been around over 2 years, but check out his activity.  Other two are only a week old.  It's official, we've got a troll invasion.

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:11 | 4073445 garcam123
garcam123's picture

Actually.....maybe a breath of freah air here in the turd shack!

 

Spread som on your toast!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:37 | 4073589 1Inthebeginning
1Inthebeginning's picture

edit

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:12 | 4073446 garcam123
garcam123's picture

Actually.....maybe a breath of freah air here in the turd shack!

 

Spread som on your toast!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:22 | 4073448 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Hot damn. ACA trolls.....this should be fun!

 

Hit us with some of that Common Core math!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:59 | 4073533 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Better change my avatar before the NSA catches on...

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:58 | 4073419 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"...seemingly most of the psuedo-intellectual slugs here, of the weakness of their small government arguments while they drive on the roads we provide them and use the infrastructure they so disdain and won't pay to maintain"

How much do you pay in federal, state & local taxes, if not half your income, then STFU, you're taking up a disproportionate amount of space on MY road.

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:18 | 4073462 garcam123
garcam123's picture

Why should I STFU, I am trying to spread intellect and reason here in the bottom of a shit hole filled with claptrap, propagand and lies.  I feel like John in the wilderness preaching the truth to those who insit they won't belkieve, but know deep down they are cheap, miserly, and flawed!

 

So spew, fucker and I'll do everything I can do to defeat your minions at the polls.  Obama was right, slugs, go win an election, fairly, I might add.......Fuckin lyin, cheatin rethuglian pussies, can't win ANYTHING FAIRLY.

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:27 | 4073481 Jena
Jena's picture

See, this is my problem with the large majority of the left.  The conversation deteriorates so quickly into dark perjoratives that the original subject gets lost.  You can't have a discussion that last past the first few minutes (and the first bumper sticker slogans).

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:22 | 4073561 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

"large majority of the left"

Maybe. But only in the sense that the large majority of everyone has a problem with our level of political experience.

Perhaps I am totally wrong, but I see the discussions in this forum as tending to completely obliterate old concepts of right and left.  We need re-fashion our thinking so we can create a more effective voice for our concerns.

The current ways are not working.

By the way, if that "garcam123" is a representative of the "left" then clearly they can be safely ignored.

 

 

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:32 | 4073583 1Inthebeginning
1Inthebeginning's picture

"safely ignored"?  There is a herd of thundering rhinoceroses.  They are very near sighted.  There is a beautiful patch of blue sky they are running toward, just past the edge of that cliff.

   .

.

.

SpLatT!!!!

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:53 | 4073523 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

Enjoy it. Every day the progressive agenda is nearing its death.  Cloward and Piven is your goal but thats ok. Its evident that once you bring the system down you don't realize that the hinterland with its armed citzenry will dispose of you when you come out of your cities looking for food.  We are waiting. See if you can suddenly learn how to use those weapons that you despise. We are millions strong and unless you have a few tactical nucleur weapons at your disposal, we will dispatch you quickly.

From Texas you statist parasitic fuck

 

Molon Lobe

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:11 | 4073546 SMC
SMC's picture

Perhaps that is why they appear to be quietly replacing General officers who might have tried to stop them...

From http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NUCLEAR_MISSTEPS?SITE=AP&SECTI...

"The Air Force on Friday fired Maj. Gen. Michael Carey, who was in charge of its nuclear missiles. Two days earlier the Navy sacked Vice Adm. Tim Giardina, the second-in-command at U.S. Strategic Command, which writes the military's nuclear war plans and would transmit launch orders should the nation ever go to nuclear war."

Yet another coincidence?

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:36 | 4073592 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

Maybe, but probably not.  If you remember there was a lapse at Minot where a B52 was flown with 6 live nukes. Seems like without a counter balance threat like the Soviets, our readiness has been degraded and maybe a bit sloppy. I do concur that there does seem to be a strategy to remove senior military officers in command positions but its unclear whether this is by political design or just a purging of a generational like minded group of senior military officers. 

I would like to think that its the Captains, Majors and Colonels that are really in charge and will stay true to their oaths.

The only way this governement can suppress the citizentry is with military participation and even then they would be stretched to do any major occupation outside of the major cities. Thats assuming you have a cohesive military effort which would not be likely. Many of the guard units would not elect to fire on friends and family.  and don't forget that their are millions of veterans who took their oath seriously including over 1000 special forces members who signed an affirmation of the 2nd amendment.

 

 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:11 | 4073545 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

If we weren't right on the money with our truthiness the trolls wouldn't be here.

Hey trolls, the fact that you spend time in here shows how afraid of us you and your masters are.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 22:24 | 4074808 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

You just knocked the ball right out of he park MH.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 12:22 | 4073565 1Inthebeginning
1Inthebeginning's picture

You would get a better response if you held down the ad hominem attacks.  Unfortunately you have been poisoned by the doctrines of the self described luciferian Saul D Alinsky who wrote the book "the rules for radicals."https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_for_Radicals.   You may not realize it but you are using rules 5 and thirteen  5) “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” and 13) “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”  

 

Your probably a good person trying to make a positive change, but please review your facts and your methods.  

 

God bless

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:12 | 4073645 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

That is the best you got newbie? You and your ilk will get fucking steamrolled one of these days when it all boils to a head. 

You won't be able to hide behind that computer, and I won't either. Difference being is I don't give a flying shit when you and your ilk are crying that life sucks. You can hope in one hand and I will take a shit in your other hand. 

Your "intellect and reason" is gonna smell real, real bad that day.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:16 | 4073454 Abaco
Abaco's picture

So the "right" drives on the roads that the "left" provides them. I guess the "right" doesn't pay taxes too? You are a particularly low skilled troll.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 17:53 | 4073600 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

while they drive on the roads we provide them

Whenever I see a leftist troll use this argument I have to express my gratitude for helping to prove that government is worthless.  

Think about it...  Among all of the innovations that the private sector free market has given us to make our lives easier and more enjoyable, the government troll takes credit for the most rudimentary application of making a flat, hard surface (which is done by using things such as steamrollers, cement mixers, hand tools, hard hats, gloves, and blue jeans, all of which were invented and improved in the private sector).

You're right, troll.  How would the same people who created a phone that can send a crystal clear picture of my family to relatives on the other side of the planet in a millisecond possibly figure out how to make a hard, flat, smooth surface on which to drive my free-market, private-sector invented and improved car?

Thank you for the laugh.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:02 | 4073631 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Fuck you and your road bitch. Vichy DC only pays for the interstate systems and we all get raped for that at the pump. Try reading - Geography of Nowhere - Kunstler. Try history, WWII Germany, Eisenhower and the US interstate system (hint - DoD). Or LBJ and county roads in TX.

The real crime here is socialist fuck sticks like you that can't quite get through their thick skulls that I don't want to pay for your shit. Go ahead, keep pushing bitch - keep trying to get something for nothing and I can pretty much guarantee you'll get nothing (and in true socialist fashion, so will everyone else), except maybe the favor of a small mercy.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 15:54 | 4073970 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

  seemingly most of the psuedo-intellectual slugs here, of the weakness of their small government arguments while they drive on the roads we provide them and use the infrastructure they so disdain and won't pay to maintain......bunch of whining pussies in my view.

 

You mean like the collapsing bridges?

I'll take my slug & raise you an amoeba.

Mon, 10/21/2013 - 14:02 | 4076648 shiftless
shiftless's picture

"I think Obama is well intentioned and I hope that he will use the rest of his term to expose the right and, seemingly most of the psuedo-intellectual slugs here, of the weakness of their small government arguments while they drive on the roads we provide them and use the infrastructure they so disdain and won't pay to maintain......bunch of whining pussies in my view."

Fuck you.

"Why don't you slugs work to make services available to all Americans and still be able to feed their families after an illness?"

Because I want you to die, slowly and painfully, in a fire.

"The one right we have in Amerika is that you can go destitute nearly overnight and now one will give a shit about you or what matters to you and your family. Christian nation? With the likes of Bachman and the rest of these kooks?"

You are correct. Only a Satan worshipping nation could possibly believe the answer is to steal from others by force to enrich yourself.

"They all belong in an asylum, not Congress! And gerrymandering? Should be outlawed at once by unamious consent TODAY! It is a crime against the Amereican people, both republican and democrat! They don't deserve to be capitalized, trash."

The history books will say the same about you some day, you miserable worthless sack of shit.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:45 | 4073389 garcam123
garcam123's picture

I think Obama is well intentioned and I hope that he will use the rest of his term to expose the right and, seemingly most of the psuedo-intellectual slugs here, of the weakness of their small government arguments while they drive on the roads we provide them and use the infrastructure they so disdain and won't pay to maintain......bunch of whining pussies in my view.

 

Why don't you slugs work to make services available to all Americans and still be able to feed their families after an illness?

The one right we have in Amerika is that you can go destitute nearly overnight and now one will give a shit about you or what matters to you and your family.  Christian nation?  With the likes of Bachman and the rest of these kooks?

How can you think you are serious when you support Palin.  Palin????, Backmann????, Cruz?????

They all belong in an asylum, not Congress!  And gerrymandering? Should be outlawed at once by unamious consent TODAY!  It is a crime against the Amereican people, both republican and democrat!  They don't deserve to be capitalized, trash.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:02 | 4073429 Oquities
Oquities's picture

Christianity's charitable dictates promote giving at the personal level, while govt mandatess promote taking by force and doling out to your favorites at the impersonal governmental level.. guaranteed to fail

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:18 | 4073461 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Yayyyyyy. Socialism. It's worked in every place it has been tried.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:26 | 4073478 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Yeah but we're Americans.....those other guys just didn't do it right.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:14 | 4073651 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Which in my view underscores the purpose of the 1st amendment. By allowing the proliferation of faiths, the bulk of which have charity (broader definition) as as foundation, it helps to provide for the social welfare of a society. Remember the context of the time period, not todays fucked-up excuse for a society.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 11:52 | 4073519 edifice
edifice's picture

Who here supports Bachmann or Palin?  They all need to be taken out of government--left, right, 'independent'--every last one of them.  Wipe clean, start over.

Re: No one gives a shit.  No one gives a shit about you while you're self-sufficient, either.  Your employer might provide basic veterinary services (health/vision/dental insurance), to make sure your eyes and teeth are good; so you don't cost them too much.  It's a giant productivity farm and most of us are wallowing in the muddy pool of continuous wealth transfer--away from us and to the super-rich or super-poor--while trying to keep from drowning in it.  People need to start giving a shit about themselves.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:03 | 4073634 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."well intentioned" - the same shit the road to Hell is paved with.

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 13:36 | 4073686 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Rational I love your optimism.  I have two beautiful granddaughters and I so desperately want them to grow up in the world that I grew up in, a world where the future seemed unlimited.  I want peace and prosperity for the entire planet.  I want the poorest of us at the end of a day’s work to be able to sit down in air conditioning, order Chinese takeout and watch the game of their choice on a flat screen with their family. 

 

Unfortunately, those fantasies, along with our entire political and economic system in which we are currently living, were built on the presumption of unlimited growth in a finite system.  The 19th century was built on the exponential consumption of coal.  The 20th century was built on the exponential consumption of oil.

 

Whether we like it or not, we are at the end of the oil age.  I know you have been told by the true believers in exponential growth that there is three hundred years’ worth of oil in the United States and Canada.   You know what?   That may very well be the truth.  Once our consumption of gasoline has dropped to 19th century levels, we will no doubt be energy independent.

 

The cold hard facts are scary as hell.  Lite sweet crude is being replaced by the hard stuff at a rate of 4 to 6 percent a year.  We are now so desperate that we are digging up miles of tar sand, loading it into massive dump trucks and taking it to a steam cleaner in in a gargantuan effort to wash an oil substitute out of it. In further desperation, we are drilling thousands of wells in shale formations to maintain production.  These wells lose 80 percent of their production in 3 years.  The EROI is so prohibitive, that Shell Oil is backing out of the shale oil play as we speak.

 

The German military estimates that all liquids production will peak sometime between 2015 and 2020.  The Squid estimates the time to be 2022.  Each time there has been a peak in production, economic chaos has followed.  We are treading water.  Exponential growth is over.  The debt is not going to be contained.  The tax base is not going to expand.  We are going over the top of a bell curve.  Things are not going to get better.

 

The sad truth is, things evolve from the simple to the complex over an extended period of time.  Unfortunately, when devolution begins, it proceeds rapidly.  Consequently, Affordable Health Care and all of the other machinations of Washington are irrelevant.  Neither the blue team nor the red team can solve this.  A tipping point is rapidly approaching.  A distracted populace is about to get sucker punched by this ongoing collapse.   The resulting rage will destroy the two existent political parties. When there is no bread, there is no time for the circuses. 

Sun, 10/20/2013 - 10:13 | 4073318 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

He's not.  He got here a week ago.

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