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Guest Post: Obamacare Side Effect – Doctors Abandon The Health Care Insurance System Altogether
Submitted by Pater Tenebrarum of Acting-Man blog,
Free Market Alert!
Many medical practitioners have apparently simply had enough. Instead of continuing their never-ending struggle with the welfare state's red tape, they have decided to revert to a free market model without insurance. At first glance that seems to represent a barrier to obtaining medical care for poorer strata of the population. However, a second glance reveals that this might actually not be the case. No doubt to the great dismay of the sick-care cartel and the bureaucracy administering it, the refreshing breeze of the free market suddenly intruding upon the system shows what prices actually would be if the State were not involved in health care. According to a recent report on the spreading 'cash only' medical care phenomenon:
“Fed up with declining payments and rising red tape, a small but growing number of doctors are opting out of the insurance system completely. They’re expecting patients to pony up with cash. Some doctors who have gone that route love it, saying they can spend more time with and provide higher-quality care to their patients. Health advocates are skeptical, worrying that only the wealthy will benefit from this system.
In Wichita, Kansas, 32-year old family physician Doug Nunamaker switched to a cash-only basis in 2010 after taking insurance for five years. (“Cash-only” is a loose description. Nunamaker accepts payment by debit or credit card too.)
[..]
Under the traditional health insurance system, a large staff was required just to navigate all the paperwork, he said. That resulted in high overhead, forcing doctors like Nunamaker to take on more patients to cover costs. Plus, the amount insurance companies were willing to pay for procedures was declining, leading to a vicious cycle. “The paperwork, the hassles, it just got to be overwhelming,” Nunamaker said. “We knew that we had to find a better way to practice.”
So Nunamaker and his partner set up a membership-based practice called Atlas M.D. — a nod to free-market champion Ayn Rand’s book Atlas Shrugged. Under the membership plan — also known as “concierge” medicine — each patient pays a flat monthly fee to have unlimited access to the doctors and any service they can provide in the office, such as EKGs or stitches.
The fee varies depending on age. For kids, it’s $10 a month. For adults up to age 44, it’s $50 a month. Senior citizens pay $100.
The office has negotiated deals for services outside the office. By cutting out the middleman, Nunamaker said he can get a cholesterol test done for $3, versus the $90 the lab company he works with once billed to insurance carriers. An MRI can be had for $400, compared to a typical billed rate of $2,000 or more.
[…]
Kevin Petersen, a Las Vegas-based general surgeon, stopped taking insurance in 2005. Petersen named the same reasons as Nunamaker: too much paperwork and overhead, declining payments from insurance companies, and a general loss of control. “The insurance industry took over my practice,” he said. “They were telling me what procedures I could do, who I could treat — I basically became their employee.”
Now Petersen does hernia operations for $5,000 a pop, which includes anesthesia, operating room time and follow-up visits. He negotiates special rates for the anesthesiologist and the operating room, and is able to provide the service for about a third of what a patient might pay otherwise.
Many of his patients are early retirees who are not yet eligible for Medicare but can’t afford a full-fledged health insurance plan, he said, and business is booming. “My practice at this point is the best it’s been in my 26-year career,” he said. “By far.”
While the cash-only model may please doctors, some question whether it’s good for middle- and low-income people. Kathleen Stoll, director of health policy at the consumer advocacy group Families U.S.A., didn’t want to speak directly to either Petersen’s or Nunamaker’s practice, as she didn’t know the specifics of each.
But in general, she fears that doctors who switch to a cash-only model will drive away the patients who can’t afford a monthly membership fee or thousands of dollars for an operation. “They cherry-pick among their patient population to serve only the wealthier ones,” Stoll said. “It certainly creates a barrier to care.”
(emphasis added)
Obviously, both the named and unnamed 'health advocates' and worriers have it completely wrong. People who don't have to pay thousands of dollars for health insurance actually can afford 'thousands of dollars for an operation' that costs only one third of what it would otherwise cost. It is not only the wealthy who can afford this free market care (besides, people who don't want it have the option to continue with the existing system).
Look at those prices! A cholesterol test for “$3 instead of $90” – that is more than 96% less! An MRI for $400 instead of “$2,000 or more” (usually will be 'or more')? Not to mention the fact that these doctors now have more time to actually care for their patients properly. What's not to like?
A Win-Win By Mistake?
Imagine for a moment what might happen if the government were to get out of healthcare altogether and there would be free competition between all health care service providers. What would happen to prices in that case? It is probably fair to assume that they would come down precipitously even from the low prices free market doctors are already able to obtain for their patients nowadays.
It is actually a good bet that the onerous red tape and the likely explosion in costs due to Obamacare will accelerate the move toward a free market in health care – unless the government explicitly forbids it, that is (unfortunately we cannot rule out completely that such tyrannical steps will eventually be taken – the government generally doesn't like it when its 'help' is refused).
If so, the Obamacare Act could turn out to become a win-win by mistake so to speak, as more and more people decide to opt out of the system. It seems clear that the free market solution is preferable to the cartelized health care system imposed by government and the lobbyists that have co-written the laws. The doctors portrayed in the article above are leading by example, and we expect their ranks to swell in coming years.
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Free hellcare?!? YEEEAAAAHHHHH, baby! Sign me up for some of that!!!!
doctors have forgotten that they have the power/ If they organize and set up these multi specialty practices, they can tell the insurance companies to go fuck themselves
my doctor already has. ditched the huge staff that shuffled paperwork. now direct pay...you want to file for insurance, great. he will provide you with the bill. that's it.
he's making 2x the money now.
the Insurance industry has scared the living piss out of people by telling them if you have a medical emergency you can go broke after you get the bills. They are the ones that have driven up the damn cost so the execs can make millions a year. I know so many good doctors that will see patients and help them out even if they don't have insurance. The Amount they make ($40-50) from a patient who just gives cash goes further then the fight to collect from the insurance companies
Ban the issuance of ALL types of insurance. Think about it. Personal responsibility would rule. Without medical insurance, the costs of care would crater. No person is paying $40,000 of a dose of a drug. No more veggies living on ventilators. No malpractice cases, no unneeded tests to protect from malpractice, no more $3,000 screws, etc. etc.
wife got a bee sting and went into anaphylactic shock
closest care was high peaks emergency care, a cash only institution as mentioned here
she damn near died
at that point money was no object
407 dollars
all in...not bad considering it cost me 3500 bucks for seven staples from a place where we were covered...my end
shit, we pay 300 bucks for an epi pen
and we got a whole lot more than that
all hail the free market
they are located just about a block north heading out of lake placid ny, if you are ever in the vicinity and need care
This wouldn't be a problem if medical insurance was actually insurance, instead of a giant billing scam.
Imagine a health insurance policy with a $10,000 annual deductible, and you can go to any doctor you want. The premium would be low because the vast majority of people wouldn't exceed the deductible. You could negotiate with the doctor on price because you're paying for it up to $10k. Your doctor bills you, and you submit your paid invoice to your insurance company for credit against the deductible limit. Then if something catastrophic happens, you don't go bankrupt. THAT is insurance. This $10 copay and $400 generic prescription crap is a joke.
I think I found Obama's theme song: Time, Forward!
http://youtu.be/TBO_ujPHYYM
http://www.esurance.com
Healthcare and Auto insurance, brought to you by the same dudes that brought you fractional banking.
Managing people is so easy, a caveman can do it.
Yep . . . everyone is right about healthcare costs in a truly free market. People used to pay themselves and it was affordable. And their doc sometimes even made house calls. Then the various crooks set up their racket and the prices escalated.
Of course the new Commie 'care' aint about health care at all. Its about ripping off the American people.
Cyprus got 'bail ins' as a means to be robbed. They are using this bill to accomplish the same purpose.
Bust people financially & make them dependent and compliant.
Why should heatlhcare be mandatory?
I've been to a doctor once in the past 20 years. When I went for a general checkup, he said I was young and healthy and to come back in a few years.
I can put away savings and pay for medical emergencies as I age. I don't need a fucking nanny state fining me for the ignorance of others. I eat properly (not what the food pyramid suggests) and I don't have any health issues.
Don't make me a virtual suggar daddy for those who lead lifestyles that drive them into sickness. Learn about health/fitness and nutrition and many of your perceived problems will be addressed. Get your head out of the matrix.
Think of some of those things that are mandatory - - - including 'education' for children & this new commie-care. Neither had much public support when first put in place, but the oligarchs put them in place anyway. These programs serve their narrow interests. Public education was about dumbing down the public to make them compliant workers in the factories and no future threat to the ruling 'elites'. It was a tool put in place since the 1890s-early 1900s. The healthcare bill is ultimately about draining away peoples money/independence and is a tool for control and population reduction. - - - If these statements seem incredible, read the book The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto. It can be read for free at johntaylorgatto.com/chapters
Great point! THIS is the biggie: The malpractice suits! It's partly "one of the reasons" health insurance premiums began to rise. I remember it starting in 1970's. Trial lawyers began this cottage industry of suing doctors. Doctors began to be forced to practice "CYA medicine". Got a headache? Doc says, "Gotta have a CT scan". This drove up costs fast! Especially when technology grew. (Not giving insurance companies a pass here...just saying it was a big part of the beginning of the end of cheap insurance and a no-problem healthcare system we had here in America.
I don't want to disparage doctors, but the MAIN reason for so many lawsuits is because doctors and hospitals make enormous amounts of mistakes that lead to patient deaths....something between 100,000 to 400,000 deaths per year.
That's PREVENTABLE mistakes.
Now, if you want to argue that tort law (i.e., negligence claims) should go away, or that "assumption of risk" should apply to every aspect of life--from jumping out of an airplane to going to the doctor--then argue that.
I don't want tort law to go away any more than I want criminal law to go away. A crime is a criminal wrong committed against a person, for which the state will prosecute on behalf of the person. A tort is a CIVIL wrong committed against a person, for which the person can sue for money to recover their damages (and yes, punish the wrongdoer).
It's funny to me that the ONLY time we hear a cry for "tort reform," it's over healthcare. It's a major Republican talking point, and they are wrong. In any case, there was a study done by one of the think tanks that concluded that medical malpractice suits are an extremely small percentage of overall healthcare costs. Insignificant.
Free markets will fix this. Nothing else.
To the person I replied to: this was not meant as a rant against you! I just like facts and clarity. :)
The whole structure of medicine as practiced today needs to be examined. The allopathic medicine ('drug em or cut em open') model was given its legalized near monopoloy as the result of certain oligarch interests, in particular - Rockefeller based. More than 250,000 Americans are killed by this system each year. The CDC and FDA (like so many other govt agencies) are in bed with the corporate interests they are supposed to regulate.
Within this system, if a doc is sued because his training taught him to prescribe a medicine that was inadequately tested so killed a patient . . . . does it make sense to blame the tort system, (bad as it is) ? Or does it make sense to re-examine the whole medical structure and open it up to competition and the free choice of patients ?
And knowing the thinking of some of those oligarchs who first financed and promoted the near monopoly of allopathic medicine, we may wonder if it produces the results intended. It is likely that many more than 250,000 Americans will die as a result of the new system being implemented.
My doctor stopped taking Medicare. I was in there for a check up. I paid cash money. An old lady was crying to the staff. Shame. She mentioned ObamaCare and said she said she thought he would never do that. She actually said "Obama said he would take care of us." Dumb old bag.
I think she voted for Obama - she fkked herself.
LOL! Go die.
Hey Freddie "MovieStarAvatar", GFY
There's still some people that take others at their word.
"Dumb old bag. She fkked herself. LOL! Go die."
You could go first. Hope you're good with your maker on that one.
You're a pathetic impotent fucking puke.
Nice to see someone still has some fight on this site.
Whenever i pop in these days its a fucking big loved orgy of saps.
Tell some people AARP is just an insurance rip off and that they favored O-care and they just don't believe it. Such naive forever-children. They just can't believe theyre are some crooks and evil muthers loose in the world.
I might have some sympathy for them, if their ignorance was not ruining it for the rest of us.
I hear the same refrain all over town, now (city in Upstate, NY). Old people who voted for these turds, and supported ObamasCare's passage, are bitching and moaning 'cuz the ins. co's are dumping them. Example: MVP Health is dumping retirees who are on Medicare, and telling them to go get their health coverage with a different company.
Boo hoo, statists, now go eat your soylent green.
If this trend spreads look for the statists to ban it. Bank on it.
I sure wouldn't bet against what you're saying!
The one benefit of our degeneration into leftist hell is that the people who thought it would be their salvation will get exactly what they deserve.
I know what you mean. I know an elderly man who is an old hardcore Dem. He has a sickly wife and a mentally disabled daughter. He voted for O cause he's always voted Dem. He and his family are going to be devastated by Fascist -'care'.
And in a few years you can bet theyll be rolling out mandatory vaccines and 'mental health evaluations'. The 'less productive' will be sold 'death with dignity'. This is their Nazi wet dream.
My guess is eventually his mentally disabled daughter will be in front of a Obama death panel getting a no vote.
Or on the ballot in California getting a yes vote into congress.
Yes, and the same for his elderly wife who has dementia from a stroke.
I have no sympathy for younger people who are dumbf*cks. But its sad for old people who are more trusting, and less capable of dealing with new information. They have a tough time with the idea that 'their country' and the 'leadership' isn't what they were always taught. I've told elderly relatives about AARP and they are only now seeing how they have been lied to and screwed over. "You mean its really not an organization to help us old people ?"
Horrible thing to say about an old woman. You don't know her circumstances. Have more respect for the elderly. There is ONE reason the Dems always chant about "Seniors". It's because they know they are vulnerable. It's difficult to get old and feel more vulnerable. You'll be there one day.
There is ONE reason the Dems always chant about "Seniors". It's because they know they have lost their wits.
My dr. is closing her office on 10/31. I suspect it's an ACA thing, although she's blaming the other Dr's leaving the practice. I've heard from family that two of their Dr's are closing by the end of the year
It's a conspiracy I tells ya!
Bearing Guy is going to look into cash-only doctors when he gets back from Peru.
A great day for freedom?
Re: gets back from Peru
BTW, what is the health-care system setup in Peru?
We were there on a trip and my hubby needed stiches in his thumb the emergency room charged us $18 and my husband still has his thumb with no visible scars. We were so overwhelmed we send the doctor a gift.
Curently in RSA. A physical including blood tests was $82 in a private clinic
Bless those folks at that facility. Hopefully this is where we are headed but Obama will bring in third world witch doctors. SEIU and ACORN will run our healthcare.
About 25+ years ago - I twisted my ankle at my job in their warehouse. It was not that bad. I went home and when I went to sleep it starting hurting like hell. I drove myself to the hospital I was born in, run by the Catholic church. This was at about 1:30 am. They looked at it and gave me an extra strength Tylenol. The bill was over $150. $150 today and back then was big bucks. I had health insurance but if I used it, it would be a workman's comp claim. Like a dope I said it was twisted from work.
Well, if you claim workman's comp - you are pretty much unemployable after that. So I forked over $150 for a Tylenol. Inflation adjusted that is probably $300 today.
25 years ago?
shit, that 150 is prolly 1500 now
What if I paid in gold or silver? It was just post-Jimmuh Carter.
Two twats gave you thumbs down. I guess they couldn't read your post through Obama's pubic hair.
Freddie is right
its classic socialist fare - promise the plebs the world with free health then import the 3rd world to supply it.
the UK NHS has 1/3 foreign doctors
Yes they fuck up a lot and grab pubescent titties now and again but they are cheap, dilute doctors influence and don't complain.
the USA will have to get in line to soak them up. africa has been mined dry of dodgy docs. ( SA excepted)
my advice is if you have spare cash send your kids to any old shit medical degree from anywhere in the world. eg caribean , fucking even russia
they will get their foot in the door of most western countries then make a good living.
They cherry-pick among their patient population to serve only the wealthier ones,” Stoll said. “It certainly creates a barrier to care.
^shut up, cunt!
My guess is that this will only be true if the AMA (et al.) demands tribute from these private doctors in order not to shut them down completely.
The beast must be fed.
Harley street consultants are only allowed to practice if they work 20 hrs per week for
the National Health service.
They all drive Rolls and yet charge 20% of the consult here for private patients.
A hospital stay at say the Wellington in London is about 1k pounds per night base.
A truly excellenct hospital appointed like a Ritz Carlton.
Get the lawyers, and legislators out of medicine, and allow true competition.
Its just plain wealth extraction here in the US.
How bad are the NHS hospitals? I heard they are unionized and a pretty bad. Someone compared them to field hospitals in the Crimean War. I also heard that islamics in teh Uk get their own NEW and separate facilities.
Oh - ObamaCare is a jizya or a tax on non-muslims by muslims because muslims are exempt. What does "exempt" mean? My guess is it is all FREE for them.
The NHS is full of muslim doctors.
USA is full of cheesepope doctors.
we should get them together.
The AMA is like AARP. It is bunch of insurance agents and a few docs from acedemia. Very few practicing physicians are members. It is self funding from selling insurance and gifts from long dead donors. A bunch of old commies and political hacks. The fuckers sold medicine down the river when they backed Obama.
The American Academy of Pediatrics is similar, very far left.
When everyone goes off the health insurance grid and costs come down, Obama will take credit for making it happen. And he will be right.
I admittedly live in bumfuck-nowhere, but this has been common around here for awhile. Carillion bought out most private practices and started abusing their near-monopoly powers, the bettter docs quit.
Then, some of them formed a private practice that has all the properties described above - and more. For one thing, they do a better job with preventative care up front. For another, they not only work for cash, but for barter in some cases. Most of them are near-retired, and don't come to the office unless there's a particular need for their speciality, so the office is "manned" by a couple of women, one the primary care doc herself, who sets up deals with any of the specialists as needed - not so often, as she's pretty darn good herself.
And, they'll even work for barter, not just cash. They were going along great, but this electronic health care records mandate is crushing. Since I'm a computer guy, I might just set up healthcare for life by setting that all up for them. The thing is, would O'care actually regard this as legit, and give me an out from that horrible mess?
Will they let the self-insured (me, everytime I've needed care, I've not been covered, and I always pay myself, I'm not a deadbeat) off?
Or, as seems obvious, is the conflation by big-insurance health insurance with "access to medical care" the real point of all this crap? They've never provided me with even one tiny bit of healthcare (or sick-care), ever, yet I've had some care over a rather long lifetime.
There's gotta be some "out" here. I can't afford O'care, and I don't spend anywhere near what it costs as is. I chose to live healthy, and gut lucky in genes. I don't want a subsidy, and in return, I don't want to give one to those fatties at walmart who CHOSE to be unhealthy.
Yep. Health Insurance, Health Care, and Health are not the same things.
One is a racket, one can be handled by a free market, and one is your own personal responsibility.
Sounds like the real problem with health care isn't government - it's insurance companies.
The real problem is that insurance is socialism, the redistribution of wealth form the healthy to the sick, and the government is the single largest insurer in the world, and they want it all! Socialism does not work in a fractured society with deliberate divisive politics to be sure none of us share in ANY common goal. We are in a fuck anyone you can societal system and th eonly thing that will slow that down is competition.
Teddy Kennedy was largely responsible for the creation of HMO's, Medicare and Medicaid drove up costs to the point where paying cash at the doctor was problematic for many, roughly 40 years ago or so.
The HMO's and ins. co's are in bed with the government, the damn bill was written by attorneys and consultants who work for Big Healthcare. The smarter amongst the execs, consultants, and lawyers know this is their last chance to cash in on the U.S. government's latest fuck up, and it's the biggest one yet, before we go to single-payer.
Somewhere along the line they went from selling insurance to collecting cuts from routine procedures like dental check ups and X-rays. People (many of them) were happy to pay more for insurance so that they didn't have to pay the dentist or doctor for the "full" cost of a regular visit; of course the insurance company has to be paid for their service as well as the practioner. When the insurance companies stumbled upon this gold mine they must have thought real hard about how many services like this they could screw the feeble minded with.
The reason Obamacare sucks is that they decided to give the money to the insurance companies rather than the medical companies. Insurance is the real reason why healthcare sucks in the U.S.
with today's technology, a web geek could put together open source centralized billing and some co-op plan between multi specialty practices.
All medical files should be stored on a patient centric basis, not in silos. Like mint.com does for financial accounts.
the health savings account/ combined with major medical policy is the real low cost answer for most people, especially young ones.
Re: Sign me up for some of that!!!!
Don't worry, you'll get a chance to prove your Libertarian credentials when you elect not to take any SS loot OR Medicare loot when you hit 65.
(Git yer socialist hands off my motorscooter you commy Libertarian, I'm ENTITLED to my free government care!)
Give me some of that government cheese....
Yeah, because the entitlements you voted for yourself will be aroudn when I turn 65! Good one, gramps!
Re: Good one, gramps!
Well, I don't care one way or the other what YOU get. I only care about the Big-Gov scams I've got. I'm a few years away from the ultimate OldFart crony-socialist medical scam so I'm going to get all the free motor scooters, hip-replacements, and dick-implants I'm entitled too.
Everybody LOVES the Big-Gov crony-socialists scam they are living off of.
Don't forget to bang your granddaughter on the way out!
Yeah, because the entitlements you voted for yourself will be aroudn when I turn 65! Good one, gramps!
Not yet 65, but WHEN did any of us vote to get Entitlements?,THEY were forcibly taken from OUR paychecks, just like FED income taxes.Good job doing Oboombas work, class warfare between the generations!.
"...but WHEN did any of us vote to get Entitlements?" Most recently? 2012.
Before that? 2008. Need more?
Was it possible, in 2012 or 2008, to challenge the results of the vote counting? Could anyone go to more than a handful of precinct and say "The vote count is suspect we demand an audit of the votes?" You seem simple so I will answer the question for you. In the vast majority of precincts it is impossible to audit the vote, it is impossible to confirm that the talley's presented to the public are correct. The public is told the results and that is the end of it. The actual voting is theater. This is intentional. No one would design an election system wqhere the reported results are not auditable unless it was by intent.
Class war, race war, and now war across age groups.
Tools of manipulation, of Divide & Conquer.
They stole more than 95% of your earnings and savings through bankster money printing and then stole more than half of that in various taxes.
And now people fight among themselves for the table scraps.
(Their own money taken from them, but now labeled 'entitlements' by the propaganda machine. What bold liars they are.)
How did this all take place & when did it start ? A lot further back than this (completely horrible) administration.
Generations of Americans, including the current one, didn't pay enough attention and tolerated too much. So, they slowly lost their Liberty, a small step at a time. Probably the key was the instituting of mandatory public 'education', the tool for dumbing down the American citizenry. Purposely they were no longer taught critical thinking skills or their history. The creativity and independent spirit that used to be noted in Americans, was slowly ground away. So now many are unable to think for themselves; they merely parrot what they see/hear from the media. They are easily manipulated to fight among themselves while their freedom and prosperity are stolen from them.
Thomas Jefferson warned during the American Revolution:
"From the conclusion of the war we shall be going down hill. It will not be necessary to resort every moment to the people for support. They will be forgotten, therefore, and their rights disregarded. They will forget themselves, but in the sole faculty of making money, and will never think of uniting to effect a due respect for their rights. "
Well they went to Woodstock so they are special. F them and their young college aged grandchildren and children who voted for this. Let their children and grandchildren take care of them. Or they can go off and die. The kids and grandkids could care less. They voted for this. F them.
F***ing Obamacare. LOL!
@ NOTaREALmerican
<<<Don't worry, you'll get a chance to prove your Libertarian credentials when you elect not to take any SS loot OR Medicare loot when you hit 65>>>
That's not the government's money, that's his money that he paid in SS taxes. Not a loot by any stretch
The average American (and employers) pays $100,000 when calculated as its future value into Medicare and gets $300,000 in benefits.
He IS looting. Maths are hard, but not indecipherable.
Give me back ever cent I've paid in, right now at 8.5%, paid in physical gold, and you've got a deal.
Govt counter: We'll keep every cent you paid in and give you three meals and a cot at the nearest FEMA hotel.
That would make sense...except that Social Security is taken out of my paychecks already. I'm entitled to the sweat of my brow, and I'm going to take it back, with interest.
That sounds fair in my book. Now, EBT cards on the other hand...pure grift.
Sounds fair except theft ain't fair either. We are going to have to accept that we have been robbed and the money was spent on hookers and blow. If we try to squeeze this cash out of younger generations, they will be taking us to the "showers", if you get my drift. Not to mention it will likely destroy what little is left of the economy.
Yep . . . the moneys gone. There are no funds. Trillions stolen from the American citizenry in numerous scams. Just think what would have happened if more than 95% of you & your family's earnings and savings hadnt been stolen through money printing inflation over the last century. Just think what would have happened if half of what paltry sum was left hadn't been stolen in taxes. Just think how much better off you would have been if your sons hadnt been sent overseas to fight multiple foreign wars to benefit narrow interests.
Might people just maybe have been able to pay for their own healthcare and retirement if they had made and kept 40-50 times more than they earned through the years ?
65 - interesting starting line...
In the year 2001, Alan GreenZIRP dropped the Fed Funds rate from 6% to under 2% and introduced all those who were saving or (God forbid) retiring around the turn of the century to NEGATIVE REAL INTEREST RATES (beginning at the short end of the curve).
Compound interest is great when it's working for you, and it's a bitch when works against you.
Just HOW MUCH is someone supposed to save for retirement, if they're not some public sector leach with an overly generous defined benefit pension and an inflated COLAs that someone else is picking up the tab for?
If PROFESSIONAL pension managers can't hit the 5% "real" return (8% nominal) that they model, even with the derivatives, leverage and other tools at their their disposal, how is Granny supposed to do it when her age and risk profile dictate she should be underweight equities (and conservative equities at that) and overweight high quality (really negative yield) bonds?
T W E L V E Y E A R S of negative real returns...
Now if you want to wine about that lazy baby boomer generation, and the Presidents from it who have facilited the Fed's transformation of retirees into debt-slaves and beggars at the hand of Uncle Sam...
Here is the ultimate plan. Renounce citizenship, go to Mexico on vacation. then come back as an illegal.
Amnesty, free healthcare, no taxes, food stamps, hell even VOTE!, collect unemployment, and heck why not disability thanks to binder and binder, all while working your own cash biz and wire money to an international acct.
Boom.
In a couple of years this whole ACA will be seen as just another distraction, like gay marriage...it's only a matter of time...
Fuck the worriers. Health care isn't a right. It is a product/service like anything else. Good for those doctors moving in this direction.
“Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.” [Article 25 (1), Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)]
So who gets the right to be free from the UN?
It sounds like the implicit meaning in that declaration is that the UN will be glad to pay for everyone's medical expenses, as well as food, clothing, housing, unemployment, disability, and retirement. If everyone had to purchase their human rights, they wouldn't really be rights, and since they don't spell out exactly who will be paying for everything, the only reasonable conclusion is that the UN will pay for it all.
Probably all you need to do is submit an invoice to the UN with some legalese mumbo jumbo like:
"Invoice payable per terms of Article 25 (1), Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948). Please remit payment within 30 days to avoid late fees."
If they refuse payment, sue their asses for violating your human rights.
c'mon now
you dont even have the right to die if you want to
truly, you have no rights you dont TAKE
i already live in a country that espouses the principle, and we don't need to invoice the UN.
we all contribute taxes toward the goal and trust the govt. to effectively manage the resources for the common good.
You trust your government to effectively manage resources?
You'll be disabused of that notion eventually.
i trust the govt. in the country where i reside much more than any other country's govt.
this is especially the case when voter turn-out has never dipped below 70% in the last 60+ years.
much unlike the USA where the voter turnout has never exceeded 62% in the same time-frame.
Typical collectivist crap. As far as I'm concerned, no one has a right to anything that needs my money to provide. I'll reconsider when I see all those rich Progressives like Gore, the Clintons, Soros, Alec Baldwin, etc. take vows of poverty and give what they have to help the poor. Then I'll still maintain that my property is mine to do with as I choose.
There's only one right that I know of, and that's the right to live, for as long as you can manage to pull it off.
Everything else is an abstract social construct that is ultimately a privilege at someone else's expense.
Well said, NA
Someone has been reading their Heinlen..
No has a right to anything really. Sure, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I will grant you those. Anything else, especially if it costs money, doesn't fall anywhere near a right. The government feels they have the right to take your earnings by force. What I don't understand is why they are allowed to tax my wage. My wage is in exchange for my labor. That is a fair and equitable trade between me and another party. Why is the .gov even involved in that? (I am only kidding, I know I am a slave. I will shut up now.) There is no law that says I have to file though.
Translation: "I have a right to have endless numbers of kids and grandkids and you (poor schmuck taxpayer) have to pay for them." Is that about right?
Yeah, my translation was:
I have a right to do whatever I want with my life, REGARDLESS if it is productive or not, and have working Americans pay for it.
12 junks and counting.
i'm lovin' it. so glad that i don't live near any of you fucks when this shit happens.
we're all part of the global village. you might as well get used to it.
prepare for higher income taxes, bail-ins, and one-off wealth taxes on your assets (and yes, your property too).
Global village? Wasn't that Hillarious Clinton with her it takes ... to raise a child?
Stupid bitch.
The rest of us are glad you don't live near us, either.
The feeling is mutual. Have a nice day.
Go live in Africa. I'm sure they think the world is a "global village" as well.
See how that works out for you.
You and your ilk might as well get used to lead coming downrange towards you when this clusterfuck collapses.
We will not submit.
dude, no need to worry about me. i'm watching your train wreck from the other side of the planet. you might want to watch out for your armed forces and security state turned against you:
36 junks for what is a modern extension of the same principles espoused in the declaration of independence.
you fuckers are not even human.
Son of a bitch you're stupid. Get a grown up to explain the DOI to you. You clearly cannot read for comprehension.
you're the one that needs to read:
it's clear that the founding fathers had more than 3 unalienable rights in mind.
it's 2013. society and culture and technology have all changed tremendously in the last 200+ years.
"society and culture and technology have all changed tremendously in the last 200+ years."
Not really. People still want free stuff they neither earned nor deserve. 200 years ago they boght & sold slaves. Today they simply confiscate your time, creativity & labor.
Thanks for trying, though.
IDIOT.
There is no "before capitalism" - it was first. The ability to use your own time & skills as you chose & the power to consent to trade or not trade with others came before all else & capitalism is nothing else but those abilities.
"Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure."
Absolutely untrue. Every waking second was spent hunting food & preparing shelter to ensure you didn't die in your sleep of hunger or from the cold, much less predator animals that had no fear of GUNS shooting them since there weren't any.
Trader1,
Since your brilliant self is on the other side of the world, you might want to just MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
I realize that the Leftist DNA is incapable of such a thing, which is exactly why we have such a problem at the moment.
I'm so glad you don't live anywhere near me. We do have that in common!
i claim no brilliance.
i'm just pointing out facts, and i'm making observations based on my experience living/working under the american and european socio-political systems.
i've had skin in the game for 8 years supporting and defending this piece of paper. eventually, i figured out american apathy, hyper-consumerism, and culture weren't worth the sacrifice anymore.
You're still falling for the false left/right paradigm theater act?
Pity on you.
You have not the foggiest understanding of the principles espoused in the DOI.
enlighten me...
healthcare IS A RIGHT.
But it's not a right to the property, time, energy or skills of others.
The right to healthcare is the right to knowledge, to make medicine & consume it as you please, to share information you have already.
Preventative healthcare is the most powerful & freemarket medicine means being able to make your own medicine & not stopped by regulations from doing so and selling or consuming it.
I wonder how many doctors will forgo giving the OldFarts unnecessary medical tests and subsidized hip replacements?
That's "Aged Flatulents" to you, youngster!
I prefer "Seasoned Flatulents"..
very well seasoned flatulence.
What about when the assholes start filing suit against these doctors and taking all their time in court and the money for malpractice insurance. Soon enough the doctors will start forming their own companies that will begin to look like HMO's or whatever. Then the prices go up and up so they can protect themselves. Just sayin. I love the idea and will go see these docs and drop insurance if it catches on.
The doctors put up a sign that they carry no malpractice insurance and get the patients to sign a waiver. If the patients do not like it - leave. I went to see an old guy who was an ear, eyes, nose and throat. He had that sign. He was a good guy. I was fine and he said it took me five minutes to check you. No charge.
Bring it -- cash-n-carry.
Who gives a flying turd about poor and low income folks? They have obamacare!
Send the poor and low income folks to Canada for healthcare. It would be cheaper to buy them bus tickets than to actually provide healthcare. Send the illegal immigrants back where they came from, and let their original countries pay for them.
Send the useful poor to us in Canada. We'll get them healthy & employed because apparently in Murrikkka y'all forgot how to do that. As for immigrants, everyone in America who isn't red-skinned First Nations is an illegal immigrant.
Look for the proliferation of weightloss clinics and things like them because the doctor still has to make a living...
I know an ER doc who is doing just that, she got laid off because the ER where she worked decide it couldn't support her and several others under the new system.
She's a fitness buff and decide to make a business out of her hobby by helping others to lose weight and get fit.
Hope she does well...plenty of customers judging by a walk along the street in Anytown,USA.
DaddyO
If a doctor wants to be paid $30 for a patient visit he knows that the insurance company is only going to pay X% of the submitted bill. So the $30 visit gets increased to $125.00 so that the doctor can clear $30 for the 10 min he saw the patient and have $10 for administrative costs for the staff that handles the insurance billing.
Remove the insurance and the doctor can just bill the client $30 directly and save a ton of time and hassle.
We all know what will happen next if this catches on... Congress will pass a law making it illegal to perform medicine outside of Obamacare. Why pay $30 when you can pay 5x that to support layer upon layer of beaurocracy that offers no benefit at all to the paitent.
Free market healthcare would alllow for the purchase of catastrophic only plans (literally catastrophic) that would only cover major emergencies. The cost should be quite cheap relative to what is paid now.
"If a doctor wants to be paid $30..."
Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Think you're missing some 'zeroes' there, sweetie.
nope. he is right. i have high deductible plan. when i go to the doctor, he has a $50 cash office fee. he gave me a 'shot' for sinus and wrote me a script. walked out $70 in.
oh yeah, his office is 'organized'...as in, you walk up, sign your name, at your appt time you are actually called back, vitals measured, into the room, doc walks in, sits down, small talk for a minute, discusses condition, reviews chart, makes a diagnosis, then lets you go....pretty simple. seems the spacing is about 10min per patient. i was in the waiting area with an average of 2 other people. smooth operation. *oh yeah, my sister started using him a few years back b/c she was sick/hurting for weeks and went to multiple other doctors. this guy brought her in, objectively listened to her, and ordered test. first time to him he successfully diagnosed her with lyme disease...where her case we reviewed by the CDC and was 1 of 3 confirmed cases in the state that year.
Re: The cost should be quite cheap relative to what is paid now.
Assuming doctors did start doing this the insurance companies would also cut their take to stay in business.
There are lots of players trying to screw the medical consumers, and they are going to all try to make sure they are maximizing the loot they are getting.
Back in the day (a long time back) IEEE offered such a plan to members. It didn't cost diddly (10's of bucks a year), and only paid out for genuine catastrophies. You were on your own for the rest, as it should be - and at the time, most engineers made enough for that not to be a problem. And it incentivised being basically healthy in your habits.
I do the same thing with cars. Since I always buy them with cash, I skip the comprehensive insurance, getting only liability. This incentivises me to not have wrecks that are my own fault. Works for me...
Sweet, build a practice that only serves runners and skiers who are less than 45 years old. ..... ...... .....
How about a practice that only treats dead people? Malpractice goes to zero. No rehab. No whining.
It's called being a pathologist/coroner. I thought about going to med school in order to do that, many years ago.
The problem with pathology as a career is that you pretty much have to work for the gubmint. If you have an MD specialty in living people, there are ways around the gubmint.
I plan to take up extreme wing-suiting to get the most out of my Obama-mamacare..
and may be the life insurance company , too.
"But in general, she fears that doctors who switch to a cash-only model will drive away the patients who can't afford a monthy membership fee or thousands of dollars for an operation."
Go fuck yourself with a splintered dildo, Kathleen Stoll. You think anybody out there wants to pay $398 a month for insurance with a $6247 deductible instead of paying $50 a month for concierge medicine membership and $5000 for that hernia operation? I know math is hard, but you save $5K with option 2. As an added bonus, your concierge doctor won't post the details of your hernia operation on a central medical records website and he won't ask you to get an RFID implanted in your penis.
Why is it that the douchebaggiest women in the health care industry all share the name of Kathleen?
Kathleen?
Mine's one legged and named Ileen.
To every rule there are an exception.
Like us Hamericuns.
We's Exceptionul
Ileen
Ooop! (I farted)
knuckles..you are correct. One step further...if she is Chinese, then her name is IRENE....
please note
coincidently, my eye doctor is named Vizene.
Inconceivable!
Probably just dumb luck.
Luck of the Irish?
I believe strongly that the government will try to outlaw medical practice outside of obamacare. that's what they did when they licensed practitioners......... this is just another step in that process. The ultimate goal is control............. not your health CARE.
Sign me up. Starve the Beast, kill its circling demons.
In this case you do know the beast you are talking about is the insurance companies, no?
Yes. Well, it is the collusion between the insurance companies and the government. The Beast is the whole current, monstrous system -- or maybe even system itself.
The beast is the gubmint, too. How much extra in taxes will we have to pay to fund the 16,000 new IRS agents charged with enforcing the Obamacare penaltax?
Betcha they git non-Obiehealthcare, too.
Fuckers.
It amazes me that even today, after all the media coverage, nobody is asking the big question.
"Who wrote Obamacare, (the PPACA)?"
Go on, google it.
The name that pops up is that of one Liz Fowler. She's a senior VP for Wellpoint, a medical insurance company. The PPACA is not for the benefit of Americans, it's to save the insurance companies. Wise up.
Best quote I saw was - "Obamacare is not intended to make health insurance more affordable for the American people. It is designed to make the American people more affordable for the health insurance industry."
Corporations & gubbmint are in CAHOOTS?!
Whocouldaknowed!
"Imagine for a moment what might happen if the government were to get out of healthcare altogether"
Done with plastic surgeons. Competition on price and quality.
Also, my adult daughter recently went through a rough patch and learned that the best specialists all refused insurance.
Of course, the government response will be to pass a law prohibiting doctors from refusing insurance (incl., especially Medicare and Medicaid).
They don't have to refuse it they will just make you wait 6 months for an appointment. Most patients will get the hint or someone will take advantage of a niche and hoover up the majority of the insurance only people charging accordingly to deal with the paperwork and red tape.
B . . . b . . . but that would mean a b . . . b. . . black free market. And free black markets were outlawed in 'Merka long ago.
Does this mean we don't get to go to Thailand or Hong Kong for our equally effective, 1/10th price free market healthcare procedures?
Rasis.
Before the AMA (mafia) there was a 'Lodge System'. A group of workers -- lodge or union or whatever -- would hire a doctor(s) for a regular fee to look after all GP needs of the group. I'm sure the Obummer legistlation precludes this now, but I wonder.
We will end up with "free market" health care for the rich and government supplied health care for the other 90% of us. This will do nothing to reduce the insane cost of basic health care.
I wish so bad this would take hold and become common, but something tells me these doctors will be labled "rogue" or whatever and they will be demonized in order to get them to stop. Cash-n-cary doctors may find it hard to renew thier licences to practice.
My dentist allows cash, and takes off a full 25% off the normal prices. I love it.