Meanwhile, In Bitcoin...

Tyler Durden's picture

Just last week we noted that the cryptocurrency was quietly surging towards record highs once again as the debacle in Washington, China's comments on the USD, and Baidu's acceptance of Bitcoins all interplayed to disrupt what many called he end of Bitcoin following the shuttering of Silk Road. Just yesterday, Bitcoin rose to almost USD235, within touching distance of April's record high... but then this morning, it collapsed to under $175 (as its liquidity reflected NFLX not global FX). The last couple of hours have seen the price bounce back to $210, but if you like high-beta vol, then Bitcoin is the new TSLA...

The blip from Silk Road is almost invisible... as BTC rose to near record highs...

 

and then collapsed today...

 

 

Source: Bitcoin charts

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fonzannoon's picture

bitcoin is pretty badass

malikai's picture

Indeed.

Also, LOL at calling that dip a collapse. Poor TD, didn't get in during the silk road blip..

fonestar's picture

The regular ZH readers know what time it is.  Buy as much "stuff" as you can and hold it.

The strongest hands win.

Pladizow's picture

If Mt. Gox only allows for $1000.00 redemption per day, how can big money get involved?

malikai's picture

Gox is one of how many exchanges?

Pladizow's picture

I think they presently control 25% of the market and I do not know what the other exchanges allow for, in terms of redemptions.

Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

"I think they presently control 25% of the market and I do not know what the other exchanges allow for, in terms of redemptions"

You really think that your money is coming back?

Pladizow's picture

Not sure what you mean - please explain.

MeelionDollerBogus's picture

LOL!

Your cash = gone

it will happen easily. Not under your control & not even in your legal jurisdiction.

Fool.

balanced's picture

Ah more fear mongering from the uninformed. It's getting easier all the time to convert Bitcoin to Dollars. I haven't looked into other cities, but here in Houston, there is a local exchange where you can sell your Bitcoin to a real live person for cash. I've done it many times. Not sure why people still seem to think that Bitcoin is a scam - fear of the unknown I guess.

aminorex's picture

Easier, yes.  I can ACH to and from coinbase in seconds.  But also increasingly foolish.

 

OP lied when he called it high beta.  It does not correlate highly to the stock market.

Jack Napier's picture

BitCoin and dollars are equally worthless, zero intrinsic value. (OK dollars have TP, but they are just as dirty before you wipe)

Neither of them are investments. If you need currency function then by all means use them for the intended purpose, but don't expect not to get fleeced if you sit on them.

Saro's picture

Austrian Economics 101:  Nothing has intrinsic value.

CH1's picture

There are OTC exchangers in every town.

localbitcoins.com

painlord-2k's picture

Intrinsic value do not exist (as you point out)
What people refer is "direct use value" and it is not intrinsic.
Marginal direct use value is decreasing as quantity increase. 

painlord-2k's picture

Intrinsic value do not exist (as you point out)
What people refer is "direct use value" and it is not intrinsic.
Marginal direct use value is decreasing as quantity increase. 

MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Ah, more shitcoinz pumping from the ignorant.

Any exchange can be compromised any time. You send money for BTC. You get nothing.

Done.

This one in this thread is in CHINA. Good luck

malikai's picture

"Legal jurisdiction" LOL.

What jurisdiction was Corzine in? JPM, GS, etc?

BTFDemocracy's picture

I for one buy Bitcoin with the idea that it will be converted back to USD.

malikai's picture

They run a decent exchange there. I've used it a few times.

They (like most others) could do with a proper API and socket support, but I guess that sort of thing is hard for them still.

fonzannoon's picture

why put big money into it? Maybe just a few grand if you can spare it?

malikai's picture

I was talking to a buddy a while back. It was just after the April bubble. I told him to check it out. He said to me: "No way too volatile!"

...he trades spot FX with all its leverage.

I shit you not..

zaphod's picture

I don't get the "volatile" arguement.

BTC is in an unbroken uptrend. In each cycle both the high and the post crash low are higher than in the previous cycle. Who cares if it is volatile if the direction is steadily up?

FX is volatile, but the steady direction is down. Why hold that?

 

StandardDeviant's picture

"FX is volatile, but the steady direction is down."

Pardon?  Down, relative to what?  If one currency in a given pair is down, the other is up, and vice versa.

zaphod's picture

Dumbest thing I've heard this week.

It's down relative to real value. The dollar has constantly lost value over the past 100 years, it's steady and constant.

FX pairs mean nothing, both sides of the pair go down year after year. The fact that one side of the pair goes "up" relative to the other FX is irrelevant.

Wu Qi Ming's picture

why put big money into it?

 

Capital controls simply. Lots of people are making money and want to get it out, which is difficult unless you are connected and can afford the service charges. That's a big haircut to most people. Bit coin represents an alternative and is personally accessable regardless of status. Big pool of greater......Hmmmm, risk takers??

Dr. Engali's picture

I like to box. How I like to box.
So every day I box a Gox.
In yellow socks I box my Gox.
I box in yellow Gox box socks.

fonzannoon's picture

you know I was not expecting that reply.

redpill's picture

You've no idea how many times I've had to read that book

Bunga Bunga's picture

That big money stays out can be only good for Bitcoin. If big money wasn't involved in gold....

halfawake's picture

1.) You can do more if you are "registered" or whatever, but still ~$10k I think. But again, that's just redemption, not a limit on trading. Yet, I'd say no real "big" money is trading - that money would be better spent on mining and selling via cash until when/if BTC fails.

 

2.) Cash (somehow, I'm sure)

aminorex's picture

The largest single BTC wallet holds 111,111 BTC, more than 20 million USD at current market.  It hasn't been touched in years.

 

sleigher's picture

The moment it's touched watch the price plummet.

painlord-2k's picture

Do you think, if 18 billions of $ (cash) were touched and exchanged in a single day on the forex for a single commodity, the exchange rate of the USD would change?

111.000 btc will never be exchanged in USD (ass wipe paper), they will be paid to buy something like an island (in a couple of years). 

aminorex's picture

Buying, not selling.  BTC is easy to move.

aphlaque_duck's picture

MtGox is history. Their banking relationship failed, so you can no longer get USD out in any reasonable timeframe.

Check out campbx, you can get KYC verified for high limits. 

Or you can buy large qty of gold with bitcoin, via Agora Commodities or Amagi Metals. 

 

MeelionDollerBogus's picture

sucker. You think bitcoin is a good value at more than two DOLLARS per.

SpykerSpeed's picture

Everybody who wants to better-understand Bitcoin should read these two articles and watch this video.  If you do these three things, I promise you will "get it" and see why it's a fantastic investment:

 

http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html

http://konradsgraf.squarespace.com/storage/On%20the%20Origins%20of%20Bit...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9zgZCMqXE

 

Any genuine questions or concerns about Bitcoin, I'll be happy to answer them for people.

Bay of Pigs's picture

So says the gold and silver basher. It's guys like you I would love to punch in the face for being such a complete fucking hypocrite.

Spigot's picture

I am liking this action in the intraday chart. Bull market raid was repulsed quite well. I have been seeing this most recent advance past $150 as leg one of three, with a spike following the third up leg. Been looking for a 2 day correction since about 180, but this will due nicely. I expect tomorrow to be a modestly down day as well, then the start of leg two up to about $300 or so. After that run a 2-3 day pause, and the final leg toping out at $425 with a spike to $600 which then collapses. This would be a scale invariant rendition of what happend in April.

Full dislosure: I have a position in BTC.

My guess is that BTC will run (eventually) and surpass gold on a per unit basis, possibly well, well beyond gold.

malikai's picture

This month has been an almost complete halving of the price of gold in BTC.

http://blog.quantsig.net/2013/10/24/goldbtc/

PersonalResponsibility's picture

I've been pondering this.  Unlike gold and precious metals, bitcoins are based on an encryption algorithm that can be duplicated.  You can't duplicate gold unless you have lots of pressure and nuclear fusion.  So, here's the question; what's to stop a millionaire from hiring a couple of programmers, modify the algo, and launch a competitor crypto-coin with more exchanges... call it bettercoin?

What's to stop bitcoin2, bettercoin2, bitcoin3, bettercoin3, evenbettercoin1... from being launched and diluting the market?  Then, someone with deep pockets can buy up and crash bitcoin to make those exchanges seem untrustworthy to convince people to move to a different crypto-coin that is maybe, say, less volatile, has more exchanges, and is more market stable (and also probably owned by the TPTB)?  I'm sure there are other scenarios.

My point here is that each crypto-coin may be secure in and of itself, but it's still a "trust" based system.

One And Only's picture

 

Same reason competition to Groupon hasn't work. Its established/credibility and has already been tried with lite coin. Whats to stop a central bank from debasing my currency 85 billion a month?

 

Ahmeexnal's picture

Other "cryptocurrencies" do not have the advantage of being backed by the full faith and credit of the Federal Reserve like BitCoin does.

EHM's picture

Bravo! It's called barrier to entry. Bitcoin like Google is just a fucking algorythym.

AugmentedFourth's picture

"So, here's the question; what's to stop a millionaire from hiring a couple of programmers, modify the algo, and launch a competitor crypto-coin with more exchanges... call it bettercoin?"

There isn't! People already have. It's open-source and as such it can be freely modified. There are competing crypto-currencies. 

The worst-case scenario you lay out is COMPLETELY non-sensical. Besides, you completely ignore the fact that competition is good for the market overall.

Saro's picture

Technically you wouldn't even have to hire a programmer.  The code is open source, just download it and set up your own virtual currency if you want (and indeed, many people have: Litecoin, ppCoin, etc.)

The issue is always this:  why would I want to own your virtual currency over Bitcoins, when Bitcoins already has an established network of users and your new currency brings nothing new to the table?

PersonalResponsibility's picture

My hypothetical bettercoin brings more exchanges in more countries and has more liquidity.  Would that make your switch to the bettercoin?  If not, what would make you switch to bettercoin?  And if you come up with something, whose to say it won't happen?  if it does happen, what would happen to the price of bitcoins?