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Feds Confiscate Record $29 Million BitCoin Booty From Dread Pirate's Hard Drive

Tyler Durden's picture


When three weeks ago, the FBI arrested Ross William Ulbricht - the creator of the now shutdown Bitcoin-only "alternative" marketplace Silk Road also known as Dread Pirate Roberts, some were surprised that the Feds only confiscated about $3.6 million worth in Bitcoins from Ulbrecht. Proving all doubters wrong, and that creating the first "libertarian" marketplace not subject to any rules and regulations, not to mention fiat monetary constraints, actually does pay quite well, moments ago it was revealed that Federal prosecutors had found an additional $29 million, or 144,336 BitCoins, belonging to the Dread Pirate. According to Reuters, the booty was discovered on "computer hardware" belonging to Ulbricht. The repossessed electronic money, whose encryption technologies seem to leave a bit to be desired, has now been impounded and will likely remain on the FBI's hard disks indefinitely.


Authorities said the haul represented the largest ever Bitcoin seizure.


Ulbricht's lawyer could not be contacted on Friday evening (local time), but had previously told reporters his client denied the charges.


The currency, which has been in existence since 2008, first came under scrutiny by law enforcement officials in mid-2011 after media reports surfaced linking bitcoins to Silk Road.


The US Attorney's Office said with nearly 30,000 bitcoins previously seized, federal agents have now collected more than $US33 million in bitcoins based on current value.


Ulbricht is due to appear in court within weeks to face criminal charges of narcotics trafficking conspiracy, computer hacking conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy.

It remains to be seen if the Dread Pirate will be able to transact in prison using BitCoins. It also remains to be seen if leading hedge fund/PE firms such as Fortress, which recently voiced its support for BitCoin, will step in to fill the void left by Ulbricht's arrest realizing the great monetary potential - in either USD or BTC terms - to be reaped by providing the masses with what is a truly anonymous marketplace.

Finally, for those who missed it the first time, here is some additional information on the identity and motivation of the Ulbricht:

Who is the Dread Pirate Roberts?

The court documents described Mr Ulbricht, 29, as a former physics student at the University of Texas, who had gone on to study at the University of Pennsylvania between 2006 and 2010.


It was here, according to Mr Ulbricht's LinkedIn profile, as quoted by court documents, that his "'goals' subsequently 'shifted'".


He wrote on the social network that he had wanted to "give people a first-hand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systemic use of force" by "institutions and governments".


Authorities said he took to online forums to publicise Silk Road as a potential marketplace for drugs back in January 2011.


In one such message, a user believed to be Mr Ulbricht allegedly said: "Has anyone seen Silk Road yet? It's kind of like an anonymous"


Investigators said he used the same channels months later to recruit help - starting with a search for an "IT pro in the Bitcoin community".


The FBI said Mr Ulbricht would appear in San Francisco federal court later on Wednesday.

And more from NYMag:

The dark Internet's favorite massive drug marketplace, Silk Road, was shut down by the FBI last night and its alleged mastermind arrested on an array of colorful charges after a nearly two-year undercover operation.


Twenty-nine-year-old Ross Ulbricht, a.k.a. "Dread Pirate Roberts," was picked up in San Francisco and accused of running the underground e-warehouse while allegedly laundering money, trafficking narcotics, and even hiring a hit man to kill one of the site's users. Fittingly for a computer nerd, not a Heisenberg, he left a rich personal trail online.


According to the federal complaint, filed in the Southern District of New York, "Silk Road has emerged as the most sophisticated and extensive criminal marketplace on the Internet today," enabling "several thousand drug dealers" to move "hundreds of kilograms of illegal drugs." The site's sales totaled about $1.2 billion in the form of 9.5 million Bitcoins (naturally). About $3.6 million in the Internet currency has been seized.


Ulbricht, though, wasn't exactly great at covering his tracks, attaching his name, photo, and personal e-mail address to Silk Road business, eventually resulting in his arrest.


Last year on his Google+ account, Ulbricht, who's now charged with facilitating the sale of drugs through the mail, asked, "Anybody know someone that works for UPS, FedEX, or DHL?"


On YouTube, Ulbricht ("ohyeaross") liked videos by Ron Paul, along with clips called "The Market for Security" and "How to Get Away With Stealing." (Of Paul, Ulbricht once told his Penn State Univeristy paper, "There's a lot to learn from him and his message of what it means to be a U.S. citizen and what it means to be a free individual.") Most recently, he followed the Vice channel.


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Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:22 | 4092879 CH1
CH1's picture

God bless this guy.

He made errors (that's how he got caught, not by NSA supercomputers), but so have we all.

And I'm not willing to take the FBI's wilder acusations on faith. They are liars, 24/7.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:31 | 4092907 THX 1178
THX 1178's picture

Check out SocraticDiscourse's response on the idea that revolution could never happen in America.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:40 | 4092929 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Ooops, oh fuck...

Where's my money?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:57 | 4093076 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

There is a clear trend here for anyone trying to use, sell, exchange, or compensate in anything other than the USD. Kinda obvious, no?

That is why the corruption, war mongering, and idiotic behavior from our Dear Leader and the administration in bed with the large banks will not change until a foreign nation tells the broke US to go pound sand. And it's coming, because a consumer-only economy that is fully tapped out and awaits only for retirement redemptions is of no value to someone like China.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:13 | 4093114 synergize
synergize's picture

The makers of bitcoin mean well but its going to collapse. Forget Bitcoin and buy the true free-man's currency GOLD (and SILVER).


PS - the Chinese, Russians, Turks, Indians, and Saudis are...



If you are fed up with whats happening with the government - it all stems from one major thing: the government's control of our money.  We have placed in our government the ability to control the money supply and dish out new money to whomever they please (usually their cronies and the banks) and to spend and create that money in infinite amounts to SUPPRESS we, the People.

To break this system we have to bring back real money and thus limit government control over money and our lives.  We can break the system by overwhelming the physical markets and give a no-vote to their control over money - they key is the small silver market.

Join the Silver Pledge - an effort to change the system by having investors join up and buy physical silver - together we can break this market and take back our government.

You can read more here:

If you dont like it dont sign up - but for people who are sick of sitting and doing nothing at least lets work together to BREAK this silver market

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:18 | 4093126 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Tyler writes, "The repossessed electronic money, whose encryption technologies seem to leave a bit to be desired.."

So was the problem with Bitcoin's encryption, or the fact that DPR was not using full-disk encryption?  Nice cheap shot Tyler.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:19 | 4093250 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

That's just as presumptive, we don't know what type of security he used on his wallet.

What we do know is they've had the BOY in custody for three weeks...

And it's VERY easy to ascertain the validity of extracted information, if you're "asking" for the key to open a lock that is already in your possession.

There is NO encryption technology that works against those methods, except not possessing all the keys to required to open the lock.

The basic tried & true decades old local PD methods are probably enough to get them what they sought - and at the other end of the spectrum the US government has admitted to 1) disappearing people into prisons 2) operating disappearing prisons and mobile prisons 3) disappearing interrogation evidence and 4) disappearing bodies from "custody"

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:34 | 4093298 Karlus
Karlus's picture

The only true protection is anonymity: having one face for the world, another for your self (See: "I am Sparticus")


Now, I would agree over time oppression tends to erode the ability to remain "private" but it is true that if they cant pick you out of a crowd, they cant see your finances, cant track your transactions you can still exert some degree of freedom.


I believe that widespread use of encryption is around the corner. People (and other countries) will demand it. Its fine for the NSA to collect all of the info, but if it takes 10^6 years to decrypt my LOLCat email then it throws a wrench in the works.

Even if they legislate against encryption and criminalize it, it will not stop (See: P1r4te-84y)


Oh, and F the Police!


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:49 | 4093333 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

"picking someone out of the crowd" is exactly the purpose of metadata and pattern matching algos - pulling a two-face routine off successfully requires rare discipline and an unnatural commitment to schizophrenia and ocd.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:00 | 4093364 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Besides the gold the federal government would like you to believe they still possess, this is probably the only thing they have ever possessed that has actually increased in value after they took it.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:30 | 4093439 knukles
knukles's picture

The problem with BitCoin is that no central banks utilize it as they do fiat and gold.

So secure a caveman can do it.

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 11:04 | 4095043 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Congrats, you just discovered that Bitcoin is a currency while the 2 PMs are money. No wonder they're not being used the same way.

(And as someone said above, Bitcoin isn't used the same way (in any way) by the govt because it can't be inflated and BTC transactions can't be taxed).

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:06 | 4093376 Karlus
Karlus's picture

"two-face routine off successfully requires rare discipline and an unnatural commitment to schizophrenia and ocd" I think you prob just described the typical ZH reader. Gentle reader, I didnt mean literally walking to Kroger in a Guy Fawkes mask.

We all have different personas for different people. By day, I work at a financial institution, but by night I transform into GoldMember. See what I did there?

During the day, I am a paragon of civic responsibility, but by night I walk in my batcave full of 5.56

The point I am making is you never know who you really are talking to. If we are truly anonymous and have the means to remain so, then you are free.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 17:13 | 4093880 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

The point I am making is you never know who you really are talking to. If we are truly anonymous and have the means to remain so, then you are free.


Not my definition of freedom. 

When action agrees with thought and thought with feeling that is freedom/authenticity-

impossible in a compartmentalized existence.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 15:48 | 4093747 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

Only 144,336 BitCoins confiscated, out of 9,500,000?


Why don't they have access to all of them?  Does this mean BitCoin encryption is working?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:28 | 4094063 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Blockchain is still running, people are doing transactions, so nothing has been cracked.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:09 | 4094035 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Since money is measurement backed by murder, BitCoins were ONLY able to operate covertly, cryptographically, within the established murder systems. Without some force to defeat the USA's militarized police, then BitCoin users have nothing else than their ability to hide, and to operate covertly through already established social systems. (Of course, there is no sane force that could survive defeating the USA's militarized police.)

That is the universal problem with all idealized or nostalgic notions about "money," such as that there could be sound and honest money based upon commodities, which would be connected to the natural principle of the conservation of matter, like gold or silver. Gold or silver based money is merely the measurement of gold or silver, backed by murder. Similarly any other basket of currencies, more or less connected to any commodities, always traces back to the sovereign powers to rob and to kill, in order to make that money meaningful.

Ross William Ulbricht's Background Summary expressed some classic impossible ideals, which then necessarily resulted in the opposite effects in the real world. Slavery did not end. Slavery merely became more sophisticated, with debt slavery becoming the system within which everyone was forced to operate.

The PROBLEM is that the globalized systems of electronic money, backed by atomic bombs, are trillions of times BIGGER than the minds of the individual human beings that originally made and maintain those systems. BitCoin enthusiasts, like gold bugs, etc., are romantically delusional, in their desires that money could be anything else than measurement backed by murder. OUR REAL PROBLEMS ARE TRILLIONS OF TIMES WORSE THAN ANY KNOWN SOLUTIONS!

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 10:53 | 4095028 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

You stoned?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:12 | 4093244 booboo
booboo's picture

Maybe the "open letter" writer to Russell Brand should pay attention to this cause Comrade Brand would not keep these confiscated Bitcoins on his Ministry of Confiscation's hard drive he would Massivly Redistribute them, which is a moar better so they could buy moar smack and vote for "I don't know".

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:59 | 4092965 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

GorillaWarfare actually has the better understanding. Until people overcome their complacency and apathy, there is no chance. But the amazing genius of those who plan is that they planned for uprisings and built the infrastructure to cope with most of it. I'm sure TPTB are surprised there hasn't been more activity globally or locally, but they underestimated the extent to which evryne has been conditioned to cowardice.

Revolution my ass, people can't even bother to participate in peaceful protest.

These expressions of faux courage fool no one actually, so I'll leave this convo to the willful.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:05 | 4092978 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

But the amazing genius of those who plan is that they planned for uprisings and built the infrastructure to cope with most of it.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face." —Mike Tyson, political philosopher

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:58 | 4093082 CH1
CH1's picture

the amazing genius of those who plan

The overlords are NOT that smart. If they were, they would have killed the Internet in 1989.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:46 | 4093197 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Supposing the feds get the password to his wallet.dat file it will be interesting to see if they dump all the Bitcoins early in the morning on light trading.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 18:02 | 4093955 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I wonder what would happen if Bitcoins could only be bought with physical gold and silver and not with any fiat currency.  Bitcoins backed by phyzz.  That would be explosive.

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 10:40 | 4095005 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

... And as long as gold and silver could still be bought with fiat, there'd be no difference. Nice try.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:22 | 4093259 Martian Moon
Martian Moon's picture

The internet is a double edged sword, TPTB need it but it is causing them the greatest harm

Some form of the internet is essential to implement the total control grid

Where TPTB were stunned was how fast peer to peer information transfer led to a total unravelling of their packaged whitewashed propagandized spiel (They had more of a top down version in mind 1984 style)


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:04 | 4093373 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

They figured as long as they told people to not trust anything on the internet, and not give out personal information on the web, they could still control the flow of information.

Their problem was that sites on Geocities gave more comprehensive coverage to events like the OKC bombing than the MSM did!  And it didn't take people long to figure out who it was they actually couldn't trust.  The talking heads.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:46 | 4093487 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

They are nonetheless achieving their top down, thanks to the complicity of the profiteering corporations. What sucks about all of this, I mean ALL OF THIS, is that WE PAID FOR ALL OF IT. They didn't pay for any of it. We did. Damn that really sickens me.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:48 | 4093328 THECOMINGDEPRESSION

The overlords are NOT that smart. If they were, they would have killed the Internet in 1989.


How would they what the serfs are doing then?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:01 | 4093356 TORNasunder
TORNasunder's picture

I must respectively disagree. The Internet as we now know it was originally a US defense project. Which means they knew before it went 'public' just what kind of surveillance and control tool it was. How many people pre-Snowden would have believed you if you'd told them they are regularly being spied on through their computer? Most would have said you're crazy or paranoid. The question now is not 'If' you're being spied on but by how many different groups(local), organizations(national), and nations(international) are, and how are they or could they use this to manipulate/control you?

Make no mistake the Internet is a two-edged sword, and it has created problems for TPTB, but at this point it appears the benefits still outweigh the costs. When that relationship flip-flops is the day the Internet is no longer a free speech zone and sites like ZH go dark.

As for Revolution... I know one thing history teaches about revolutions; large masses of hungry people tend to revolt.

EDIT: Martian Moon beat me to the punch.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:09 | 4093389 Karlus
Karlus's picture

"The overlords are NOT that smart." - Pizzactly!!

Look at who is running the show. Yes, they have a big stick, but are none too bright in wielding it.


The most feared animal in the jungle is not the lion or Super Cobra. Its the Army Ant. When thousands of rednecks point their F150s towards DC, it will be over in days.

At the end of the day, govt is an irritant. When it really becomes a true threat, "Rough Men will do violence" on their own behalf very quickly. (See: Interstate highways and distance from Texas to DC)

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 08:56 | 4094845 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Why would they have killed the Internet? It's the perfect prison. Just now, I am conversing with my fellow inmates.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:14 | 4093000 drooley
drooley's picture

the poor have the rich outnumbered, outgunned, and dare i say outsmarted.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:36 | 4093054 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Don't be stupid, the poor always have the rich outnumbered and outgunned. Usually, the rich can keep a lid on things. Occasionally, 1789 Paris, 1917 St Petersburg, things get out of hand.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:28 | 4093277 booboo
booboo's picture

Yes and when they do the poor plebes were in both cases were talked into rounding up what was left of the middle class. Pol Pot demonstrated this effectivly by slaughtering anyone who could read and write, wearing glasses was a dead give away and the "Killing Fields" were littered with people sporting a 123 grain bullet hole in the back of their head. They called them useful idiots for a reason, but even the intellectuals were wiped out in all cases when the top perceived them as a threat. Trust me, they ain't gonna stop at bankers and politicians.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:06 | 4093379 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I call it the Thermidorean Reaction Redux.  People aren't YET educated well enough to even know what the desirable outcome of a revolution is!

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 16:26 | 4093802 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

+1 Exactly

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:50 | 4093140 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Ah, but the rich have a failsafe secret weapon: Organized Religion.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." - Diderot

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:40 | 4093473 Oracle 911
Oracle 911's picture

Well it is much likely bunch of organized interlapping cults then a religion, BUT close enough.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:23 | 4094053 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

EBT cards are a religion? I never knew ...

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:56 | 4092955 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

His name is Ross Ulbricht... His name is Ross Ulbricht... His name is Ross Ulbricht...

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:04 | 4093095 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

Call me pessimistic, but I am guessing that I'm never going to receive my order of "Nos's Awesome Columbian White". This sucks ...

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:20 | 4093022 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

Where would tyranny be without a war on drugs. Especially in the worlds number one drug consuming country.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:36 | 4093302 booboo
booboo's picture

Since the War on Drugs, Poverty, Obesity, and the rest of the declared wars on behavior have had the opposite effect I call for a war on sex. Brace yourself men for the onslaught of free and plenitful cootchy.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 14:20 | 4140756 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

It was called Women's Liberation and resulted in them joining the debt slaves. Those who refused to be dictated to, got jobs as stenographers. Those who refused to settle for one man, ended up with none.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:26 | 4092891 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

I refuse to see this glorified drug peddler as some kind of hero.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:30 | 4092903 flacorps
flacorps's picture

He was interfering with a government monopoly.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:42 | 4092930 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

His only crime seems to be that he didn't work for HSBC or JP Morgan...

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:00 | 4092966 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

So if we want to launder money, we should use our local JP Morgan branch and not bitcoin.  Got it

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:01 | 4093087 CH1
CH1's picture

if we want to launder money, we should use our local JP Morgan branch and not bitcoin.


Read this story on HSBC. Then read this one on Wachovia.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 16:52 | 4093848 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

Well, that and soliciting murder, allegedly.


Which seems to be something his fans conveniently ignore or discount as manufactured accusations.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:43 | 4092932 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:17 | 4093236 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Just so we're clear on "Gov't Monopoly"... By that we mean that it was started by the DoD + CIA in the 1960s (Vietnam and S.Am.), and perpetuated to this day.

E.g. they've done absofuckinglutely NOTHING about the poppy fields in Afghanistan (unless Bernanke is buying and destroying their entire crops - ha-ha-ha!).  And let's not forget...

The cozy relationship between the CIA and DEA (whose Florida Operation old man Bush headed).  To my knowledge, drugs still get in from Gulf offshore oil rigs, when their equipment get shipped back onshore for repairs, and when it bypasses the CPB and DEA people.

Lest we get too self-righteous with odious hypocrisy, let's remember that there is a whole parasitic INDUSTRY built around drugs and vice.  Were it not for sex and drugs being "banned", there'd be millions out of work or have a severely impacted lifestyle--> Law Enforcement, Judiciary & Legal industries, Prison industry, and Medical industry.  They have to keep the level of "crime" just right:  Not too much and not too little, but just right.

And let's not forget the #1 Beneficiary:  The FED itself.  W/o all those hundreds of billions of laundered drug and vice dollars moving around the world and which end up buying US Debt (Bonds, USTs) in all those Caribbean banks, they could keep their fiat Ponzi going. 

Were vice (sex & drugs) to be made legal, the quality would go up, and prices and crime would fall.  This would not only be very bad for the aforementioned parasitic industries and the lifestyles on people in them, but lower prices would also lower the demand for FRNs, Bonds and USTs.  It is the latter that would be very, very bad for the Fed and its bankster shareholders.  From their perspective:  "(A) The Show Must Go On, and (B) w/o currency competition!"

You don't have to visit the "bathroom" to realize that this "house" is full of shit.  Now take your Blue Pill, if you like.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:29 | 4093438 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Yep, its illegal so that they can limit competition, and increase profits.  Thats it.  The holier than thou religious who were used to push through Prohibition were just useful idiots in the whole scheme.  Completely oblivious, for the most part, IMO.

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 12:24 | 4095200 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

"they've done absofuckinglutely NOTHING about the poppy fields in Afghanistan "

They actually promoted it at the time to get the tribal leaders in line....

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:31 | 4092906 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

Then you are not seeing the big picture here.   Drugs are just a particularly tangible and arguable part of the government's efforts to intrude into your private affairs.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:36 | 4092918 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

Or, the FBI is doing exactly what I would want a federal investigative agency to do, IN THIS CASE.

Why have law enforcement agencies if not to police this kind of thing? They're not exactly frisking me without probable cause before boarding an airplane, harassing me for driving 50 in a 45, or posting notices on my door ordering me to mow my grass, are they?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:01 | 4093041 Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

Sooo... what you're saying is that you support the persecution and armed robbery of this man because he dared to facilitate voluntary commerce in one of the few truly free markets left on this batshit insane ball of rock?


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:39 | 4093155 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"They're not exactly frisking me without probable cause before boarding an airplane. . ."

Bullshit! What do you think TSA's doing?

"Accidentally Revealed Document Shows TSA Doesn't Think Terrorists Are Plotting To Attack Airplanes

Amazingly, it appears that the government forced Corbett to redact the revelation that the TSA's own threat assessments have shown "literally zero evidence that anyone is plotting to blow up an airline leaving from a domestic airport." Corbett argues that this shows why the searches are not reasonable under the 4th Amendment. Corbett also points out that about the only thing the machines seem useful at catching are illegal drugs -- but, as he notes, that's "irrelevant to aviation security." Sure, the government may like the fact that it catches illegal drugs with these machines, but the TSA can't argue it needs the machines for "terrorism" when it knows that's not true, and then tries to keep them just because it finds some narcotics..."

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:03 | 4093531 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

 They're not exactly frisking me without probable cause before boarding an airplane

Which airport do you use?  I want to go to there.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 16:48 | 4093841 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

Could y'all have missed my point any MORE completely?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 18:47 | 4094017 CH1
CH1's picture

Perhaps you missed theirs?

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 10:30 | 4094992 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

There is no victim, you moron

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 07:58 | 4096970 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture

They peddle that shit to kids, to get them hooked early, you moron.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:37 | 4092922 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

While I don't agree with him on many other topics, Milton Friedman hit this nail right on the head. He was dead on, regarding drugs.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:58 | 4092961 Nothing but the...
Nothing but the truth.'s picture

Yet HSBC got a slap on the wrist for laundering an account holders drug dealing money. The system is fucked !

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:01 | 4092967 McMolotov
McMolotov's picture

Too Big to Prosecute Fairly.

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 12:39 | 4095223 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I doubt it is about size.  It is about complicity.

They are part of the club and their behavior is known and non threatening to the FEDistas

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:03 | 4093093 pipes
pipes's picture

That's because you're still locked into your state programming. You still beleieve that the STATE has the right and the authority to dictate what a free individual may do with regards to his own property - namely, his "self". You further have swallowed the state's portrayal of DPR as a "drug dealer", when in fact he is just owned the street corner on which the drugs were exchanged.


Programming can be a hard thing to overcome.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:25 | 4093268 sleigher
sleigher's picture

It's not even really that.  It is anonymous ebay.  List your stuff here, we take a small percentage for providing the listing service.  I don't see DPR as some great revolutionary, but he hasn't done anything wrong either.  First off, he isn't the original DPR.  He is definitely the second and possibly the third.  I don't know that as fact but it appears that way.  He believes no harm no crime and I do too.  I think silk road wasn't even really the problem but bitcoin became more and more well known.  Bitcoin is what they hate.  Why aren't the attacking the other dark web drug sites?  Heck some of them even sell weapons and stuff.  None of this had anything to do with silk road or what it was doing.  It had everything to do with crushing bitcoin.  So...   FAIL!!!

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:28 | 4092896 flacorps
flacorps's picture

Enhanced Interrogation techniques

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:28 | 4093280 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

It would be useful to know if this guy has a lawyer.

You don't have to crack encryption if you persuade the party to provide you with the password, through any means possible.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:29 | 4092897 Iam Yue2
Iam Yue2's picture

Help us Russell, help us.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:32 | 4093446 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Decentralization is the solution, not giving lots of power to one man.  We've tried that (a small cabal, in fact) and thats whats got us here.  >1%, acting in their own benefit, which is fine, but they are sociopaths, which is uncureable.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:29 | 4092900 freewolf7
freewolf7's picture

It's hard to compete with a fascist government.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:55 | 4092953 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Yea, it's like, that didn't take too long now did it?

Fuck sole encryption for safe storage anymore. I want strong encryption that triggers a thermoplastic microexplosion if decryption routine detects too many consecutive 'wrong password' attempts. Yes the platters are thermoplastic explosives.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:31 | 4092904 Zarba
Zarba's picture

Watch, within a few weeks we'll hear about "child pornography" being found on his hard drives.  It's easy for the feds to put the files there (They have plenty, I'm sure), and it makes DPR untouchable; no one wants to defend kiddie porn, right?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:10 | 4092989 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

He should have programmed in a backdoor so CIA could post a few kilos and transferred bitcoins into their account. Silly rabbit.

I guess Penn State does not prepare their students for real world scenarios.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:54 | 4093214 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The dude was either the dumbest crook wanting to get caught or the whole operation was a government psy-ops against BitCoin.

What better way to disuade your average wants to be honest Citizenism than to disparage BitCoin with the sale of illegal drugs.

Maybe I'm reading to much into it, but I would think a Penn State student would be smart enough to reside in a country with no extradition treaty with the US and operate his website from a country with favorable views toward illegal drugs. And, you definitely don't go flashing your face all over the place.

Much less stash all your BitCoins from illegal sales on one hard drive.

Ok, is this guy up for Award for Dumbest Crook Ever, or have I just gone insane?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:11 | 4093243 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Didn't help a distant cousin of mine.He was in a non extradition country one day, and awoke

in a Federal prison the next.The family crooked black sheep, but not a terrorist.He was 'extracted' off the


He got greedy.100s of millions greedy.I think he gets out in 2356 with good  behavior..

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:19 | 4093573 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Agreed but I wouldn't characterize him as a crook. Breaking new ground in legal gray areas requires much more effort than he apparently put in, unless as you say he was part of covert anti-bitcoin ops.

I like the later because it has blockbuster potential and this is the hedge.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:31 | 4092910 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Bitcoin- safe as money in the bank.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:34 | 4092914 g'kar
g'kar's picture


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:39 | 4092927 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

You do realize that govt thugs can make you surrender your gold or are you just absolutely stupid?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:44 | 4092933 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Not if it's in a different country they can't.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:17 | 4093008 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

oh indeed!

if that country is an 'americanism' 'citizenism' country they can confiscate from it!

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:59 | 4093083 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

That kinda takes the "if you can't hold it, you don't own it" argument out, doesn't it?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:22 | 4093135 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

What gold?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 15:14 | 4093681 CultiVader
CultiVader's picture

I know!...seems no one here can operate a boat worth a shit including me.   Long scuba gear anyone?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:49 | 4093207 laomei
laomei's picture

Technically speaking, they can. If you refuse to hand it over following a court order, they pretty much get to skip the trial and lock you up for contempt of court... which ends upon your compliance with the court order. Leaving you with the options of comply or rot in prison forever.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:25 | 4093257 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Sure they can let you rot in jail, but only if you and your lawyer are too dumb to play the Procedure game properly.

Otherwise, it's like other bloggers here said: "What gold?  What foreign country?"

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:32 | 4093288 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Fuck speaking technically, just ask Martin Armstrong.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 19:31 | 4094068 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

If you were in the same situation like Ulbricht, they can.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:49 | 4092945 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Criminals being crinimals and all that...

They first have to find what they think they're looking for.

Blackmarkets have proliferated since the beginning of governments and their need to live off the sweat of others.

Our own government started out on the premise of unjust taxation and now has become the unjust taxer.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:36 | 4093053 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

I'm with DaddyO on this one. Possession is 9/10's.

Hide it. Diversify your hidings. And for Peat's sake do not create a treasure map or forget where you put it like Bingo did last year with his silver, lost now found but fearful for a solid week.

Concrete is a good building material and tree stumps can be hollowed out to create a nice planter.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:42 | 4093060 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Bingo. The fundamental flaw with bitcoin is that it requires you to use the Government's own infrastructure, the Internet to use it, so the government has a record of any and all transactions. I can go down to my local coin shop, pay cash for my gold and silver coins, and there is no record of it.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:26 | 4093099 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

No argument from me Elvis.

We need a grass roots movement to eliminate the DARPA servers and implement a new DNS framework that does not utilize IP and new datagram construction.

Once the sheeple understand quantum crypto and the necessity for end-to-end fiber the movement will begin.

But Bingo will not hold his breath.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:48 | 4093203 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Might want to check to see if the guy has video cameras and ask how long they keep a copy of the images. Plus, might want to wear gloves before entering, never know if you might leave fingerprints behind. While you're at it, you might want to wear a biohazard suit in case any of your DNA happens to get left behind. Also, check around to see for any other video cameras in the neighboring stores. Never know, it sometimes pays to be paranoid.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:28 | 4093276 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I was bugged by a business partner back in the 1970's.Very crude but effective.Drove me crazy for months,then

I found the bug.Ever since then I always assume that someone is listening or watching.Saved my ass a few times.

With the yet another conspiracy theory becoming fact , I am getting the last laugh on people who

considered me a little paranoid about privacy.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:20 | 4093575 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I'm sure they do have video cameras (and they probably carry guns too), but they're Ron Paul/Tea Party types so I doubt they keep the footage for any length of time. Not really worried about fingerprints and DNA and such because that only establishes that I've been in the store, not how many times or what I bought there.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:42 | 4093061 JohnG
JohnG's picture

What gold??

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:31 | 4093284 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Maybe govt thugs can MAKE you do something Scarlett, but that is not the case in our world.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:44 | 4092935 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

This revealation about BitCoins not being invincible is going to upset a lot who post on ZH, no?

I have long held that if you can't physically hold or touch something in your possession, you don't own it.

Seems my belief is somewhat vindicated by of all things, the FBI.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:01 | 4093091 granolageek
granolageek's picture

And the FBI wouldn't search high and low for your physical if they arrested you? Please.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:30 | 4093160 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

They ALWAYS go through your computer and any jump-drives they find with a fine-toothed comb.  How often do you think they go on a scavenger hunt over hill and dale trying to find every last stash of PMs?

btw - how do we know DPR isn't paying his lawyer with some of the Krugs he had stashed somewhere?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:33 | 4093294 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

If you allow them to arrest you, you have already lost everything.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:46 | 4092939 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Exactly! This digital dipshit actually thought he could be an online drug dealer and not get caught because he used Bitcoin. Wow. What a hump!

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:42 | 4093299 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

He won on Principle, but lost on Procedure.  That's how the Law and Trial Law works 80% of the time.  Clearly he should have added a few Law classes to his Physics classes.

Had he played the Procedure game better, or had he a Network of advisers to act as SMEs (Subject Matter Experts), he would done some really BASIC and Don't-Be-An-Idiot things like:

   1. Live outside the US of A.  Keep your ISP and server offshore.

   2. If you are dumb enough to live in the US (with this kind of site), do a stellar job in hiding your US location.

   3. Encrypt EVERYTHING.  The entire HD.

Since he fucked up on ALL three basics, the Law caught up to him and his hubris.  HE was the Weakest Link, come to find out.  Not Bitcoin. 

But keep redirecting to red-herring, bogus arguments, if you like -- in an attempt to detract from BTC.  You just may convince enough of the ignorant, dumb, gullible or scared sheep.  OTH, "The truth will out", if... IF correct info get out fast enough to enough people.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:11 | 4093552 Drachma
Drachma's picture

Your point about encrypting the hard-drive is also a red-herring. You are missing the most obvious point. If in fact, the FBI decrypted his wallet.dat file, without him actually surrendering his password, it implies that Bitcoin 'security' is not fool-proof. There is of course the possibility that, with the right pressure points, the agencies could get all the passwords they need, for the HD and the digital wallet and whatever else. Cheers.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:47 | 4092941 TheBoyPlunger
TheBoyPlunger's picture

He should have redeemed those bitcoins for bullion and buried them in holes in some national forest Walter White style.


Of course using a vehicle with no GPS.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:59 | 4092962 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

And leave the cell phone at a Barry O. bath house locker room in Chi-town.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:00 | 4092964 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

I'll get you for that Sacri....

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:49 | 4092943 Robslob
Robslob's picture

There is nothing safe or sacred from confiscation by your Government.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:09 | 4092991 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Wanna bet? How 'bout the germ of Liberty and Freedom residing deep in my soul!


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:31 | 4093042 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

"They" put your soul up as collateral a long time ago.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:58 | 4092960 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 09:58 | 4092963 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

Stupid FUD is stupid.

Until the FBI actually moves coins out of the wallet, they haven't seized shit.


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:12 | 4092997 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

I´ll bet the NSA will crack that problem soon enough.  Check this out:

Who wins the encryption game?  Bitcoins creators or NSA supercomputers with billions of dollars of support behind them?

Once an announcement comes out that Bitcoins can be "moved" out of wallets, confidence will plunge.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:32 | 4093040 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

Most people have little idea of the power of crypto. The Powers The Be prefer that people remain ignorant on the topic.

One of the consequences of the second law of thermodynamics is that a certain amount of energy is necessary to represent information. To record a single bit by changing the state of a system requires an amount of energy no less than kT, where T is the absolute temperature of the system and k is the Boltzman constant. (Stick with me; the physics lesson is almost over.)

Given that k = 1.38×10-16 erg/°Kelvin, and that the ambient temperature of the universe is 3.2°Kelvin, an ideal computer running at 3.2°K would consume 4.4×10-16 ergs every time it set or cleared a bit. To run a computer any colder than the cosmic background radiation would require extra energy to run a heat pump.


Now, the annual energy output of our sun is about 1.21×1041 ergs. This is enough to power about 2.7×1056 single bit changes on our ideal computer; enough state changes to put a 187-bit counter through all its values. If we built a Dyson sphere around the sun and captured all its energy for 32 years, without any loss, we could power a computer to count up to 2192. Of course, it wouldn't have the energy left over to perform any useful calculations with this counter.


But that's just one star, and a measly one at that. A typical supernova releases something like 1051 ergs. (About a hundred times as much energy would be released in the form of neutrinos, but let them go for now.) If all of this energy could be channeled into a single orgy of computation, a 219-bit counter could be cycled through all of its states.


These numbers have nothing to do with the technology of the devices; they are the maximums that thermodynamics will allow. And they strongly imply that brute-force attacks against 256-bit keys will be infeasible until computers are built from something other than matter and occupy something other than space.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:35 | 4093048 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture the 99th power you fucking nerd!

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:53 | 4093073 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

That is absolute bullshit. You are assuming that they would search for the bitcoin key in a linear fashion. When you google something, does the Google engine search through the entire store of information linearly? Of course not, it would take forever to find the webpages you search for. I don't know how the Google search engine works, but it finds what you're looking for pretty quickly.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:58 | 4093084 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

> You are assuming that they would search for the bitcoin key in a linear fashion.

A Bitcoin key created offline (known as a "paper wallet") and only used for storage (not sending) can only be broken through brute force, be it of the the computing or rubber hose variety.

Why do you think the Military-Industrial-Government complex did what it could in the 90's to keep crypto away from us commoners? They didn't want us to have what they'd been using for decades.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:13 | 4093116 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

Ah, while you're correct that the Bitcoin passwords are non-random, and uncovering them may require little more than some seriously badass sleuthing, the same cannot be said  for the wallets.

Even if a perpetrator knows the password, if they don't have the wallet, they will indeed need to snuff out all the stars in the galaxy and then channel the energy through the most energy efficient computer thermodynamically possible, and of course they would need to invent that as well. Even then, their chances of rebuilding the correct wallet would be pretty dismal.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:13 | 4093245 PeakOil
PeakOil's picture

Fair enough. Though a typical bitcoin user may have several encrypted wallets in different places in case one gets lost or stolen.

Yes you need a wallet, but I find it hard to believe DPR had only a *single* encrypted wallet. Highly unlikely. And even if the Feds have one or more of the copies - do they have them all?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:49 | 4093334 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"In the case of the Gov, a lot of knowledge is a dangerous thing.  In your case, so is a little."

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:54 | 4093078 AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

You don't need to use brute force decryption if you know something about the contents.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:59 | 4093086 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

> if you know something about the contents.

Here, break this Bitcoin key:


Sat, 10/26/2013 - 13:50 | 4093494 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

that was beautiful

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:21 | 4093254 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Uh, no.  If the popos take a woman's purse, they have seized it, regardless of if they search through it or take anything out of it.  If the hardware that DPR's wallet is stored on has been seized, then his wallet has been seized.  It doesn't matter if the FBI cannot do anything with those bitcoins.  Neither can DPR. 

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:16 | 4093561 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

The DPR scenario is the exact reverse of the scenario I described. They have the wallet, but not the password.

You're wrong about the wallet, mainly because you're thinking of it as a wallet. This is wrong. The wallet is like a key. You can copy it as many times as you like, but if you don't know what lock it's for, and there are gazillions of locks, it doesn't do you much good.

Bitcoin is basically double-door security. To get through the first door, it requires something that you have (the wallet), and to get through the second door, requires something you know (the password).

In other words, a Bitcoin account is like an impenetrable safe, protected with an unforgeable key lock, plus an ungeussable combination lock.

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 10:11 | 4094960 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Fool, think before you say something stupid.
There can be an unlimited number of equally valid purses (copies can be made at will) until money is taken - by a person who knows the pass - out of any of them, which instantly invalidates all other copies.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:02 | 4092970 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

There will be a war declared against Bitcoin sooner or later. 

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:57 | 4093081 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Yep. It will be named something like "The Currency Protection Act of 2014". As soon as there is any inkling of a dollar crisis, expect it to be rolled out.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:08 | 4093105 CH1
CH1's picture

There will be a war declared against Bitcoin sooner or later.

It may be too late. :)

They can wreak a lot of havoc, and maybe even ruin the BTC market, but there are now thousands of highly motivated young people who have tasted free-market money. They'll keep adapting, and they'll win.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 14:21 | 4093574 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

And much lulz will ensue as they realize they don't have a way to actually perform the war.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:10 | 4092992 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Damn, that's 10% of all bitcoins in circulation.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:35 | 4093049 fockewulf190
fockewulf190's picture

Can you manipulate a currency if you own 10% of it?  How about 50%?  Or more? I wonder what would happen if the Feds just bought all the Bitcoins it could get their hands on and then just sat on them, since apparently there is only a limited amount in circulation.  One can assume the price of bitcoins would be influenced by the actions of the biggest holders of the currency. 

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:41 | 4093184 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

It took gov/bankers thousands of years to accumulate most of the gold, and they only managed that because people were stupid enough to hold notes for it.

Bitcoin is hard to round up in such a manner, because there's no reason to hold a note. You can secure it yourself at no cost, and it's very useful to circulate.

Debt-money is dead. PMs (anonymous and stable) and crypto (portable and unseizable) are the future. The two work together, and there's no reason for anything else.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:48 | 4093329 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

In order to maniuplate bitcoin, they will need to accept your deposit in bitcoins. Since every bank deposit is (by law) a loan to the bank, then they can turn around and use your bitcoins for whatever they want until you ask for them back. After that first hypothecation, it's all downhill for the banks.

Sun, 10/27/2013 - 10:05 | 4094947 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

It's a non issue.
What can they do? Dump them at 8am ET like paper gold and then what?
Print some more?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:11 | 4093111 CH1
CH1's picture

Damn, that's 10% of all bitcoins in circulation.

Run the calc again - it's about 1%

11 million BTC / 100 = .11 million, or 110,000

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 11:38 | 4093178 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

Oops, more like 1%

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:18 | 4093247 CH1
CH1's picture

No sweat, it has happened to us all. :)

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 17:05 | 4093872 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

10% less means the value of the remaining has increased.Nothing is lost

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:11 | 4092996 Protokletos
Protokletos's picture

University of Pennsylvania would be upset if they knew someone confused it with Penn State.  

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:34 | 4093043 Element
Element's picture

This is just another expression of the US's Total-Dominence paradigm applied to NSA spying, crypotgrapy and drug-dealing.


Blowback will intensify.

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 10:33 | 4093046 torabora
torabora's picture

So the bitcoins were used to paperover the national debt during the gubberment shutdown?

Sat, 10/26/2013 - 12:18 | 4093251 CH1
CH1's picture

LOL... probably so.. and probably rehypothecated about a hundred times too!

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