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Austrian Economics Hits Mainstream Media
One has to wonder if somewhere deep down a change is occurring in America. While stock prices soar to record highs, it is clear a growing number of 'real' people are realizing the nonsense that watching a 'market' as anything indicative of reality has become. The latest 'shift' is the appearance on New Orleans local TV of a two-minute primer on an "alternative" school of economic thought - Austrian Economics. While the anchor is careful to add the caveat that the mainstream economists think the world would be a terrible place if they didn't help us along, the brief clip begins with some useful common sense, "the market alone should decide the value of products and services. If a company is not successful, it should go bankrupt." Indeed...
Click image for 2-minute clip...
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Dr. Walter Block holds an endowed chair at Loyola University and is a faculty member of the Mises Institute. He has taught at several universities and written books about controversial economic topics.
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"If government is bad, then a shut-down government is good," he stated. "I wish they would've shut more of it down, they didn't shut enough of it down for long enough."
The Austrian School of economic thought was devised by a handful of economists in Austria in the 15th century; otherwise, it has nothing to do with the country. Free enterprise is the school's main tenet. Austrian theory says regulation is bad for the general welfare, as well as for economic growth and stability.
One thing Block mentioned he would do if tasked with improving the U.S. economy would be to eliminate the minimum wage, because it unnecessarily raises unemployment.
"We believe," he said, "that it really is a law that when you have a minimum wage, you'll create unemployment for people whose productivity is below that level stipulated by the minimum wage."
According to Austrian theory, the market alone should decide the value of products and services. If a company is not successful, it should go bankrupt. Another change Block suggested is to end subsidies for American farmers. If agriculture is not profitable for enough farms, some of them should go out of business, allowing supply to balance out demand and creating prices that are more sustainable.
Austrian economics holds that people should be allowed to make whatever choices they feel are best for them, so long as they do not hurt other people.
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Austrian theory is not a mainstream section of economics. Americans tend to believe there is a need for regulation, especially in the financial sector. But Washington state and Colorado have already legalized marijuana for recreational use, and a recent poll suggested that a majority of Americans want marijuana to be decriminalized. Combined with legalized prostitution in Nevada, Block said Americans are pushing for greater personal freedoms.
Politically, Austrian economics lines up closely with libertarianism
The most famous current practitioner of Austrian economics is former presidential candidate Ron Paul. He also wants to shrink the government, get rid of the Federal Reserve, and let people make the decisions that are best for them.
If it is good enough for clothing companies, "why don't we apply it to everything?" Block asked.
The most common criticism of Austrian economics is that it relies solely on logic, and does not seek statistical validation for its claims.
Some people also claim that allowing the economy to move unchecked allows for greater volatility and longer recessions.
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Ohbama.."New Orleans, huh? Is it too late in season to send another h'cane their way via HAARP?"
them libritarians is ignorant.
That's right....us GOP Gawd Obsessed Party is the real smart'uns!
Do the politicians need to learn German?
Only reason it's starting to show up on the news is to discredit it before it has a chance to take root.
"No minimum wage? Fewer government regulations? Smaller government? Oh, my god, these Austrians sound like those evil Tea Party terrorists!"
"The most common criticism of Austrian economics is that it relies solely on logic, and does not seek statistical validation for its claims. "
The reality, of course, is that Austrian economics seeks, and finds, plenty of statistical validation for its claims.
Keynsianism economics, on the other hand, can rely only on statistical validation. That's all it has. It certainly can't rely on logic, because Keynsianism defies all logic. Like an off-the-shelf religion, it must be taught, it cannot be learned independently.
Any idiot can find statistical correlations that support their ridiculous beliefs. That's why Keynsianism appears to be so well grounded in statistics. Because so much effort is spent drudging up every study and model and perverted version of history and misleading statistic that they can come up with. Like Sam Clemens said, there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Keynesians economics is simply the buffoonery fairytales of a English elitist mathematician, who never possessed an economics degree.
It is a fairytale, nothing more.
The fairytale is one of which the rich save the day and enslave the peasants taking all their goods and services for the use by the wise overlords to dispense and do as they please.
The rich deserve it all and the peasants get their bread and water.
End of story.
The sad thing is most of the peasants agree with this buffoon.
Not to dispute your larger point about Keynes being a buffoon and all the buffoons who follow his preachings but I want to point out that a degree in economics, or whatever, is not necessarily proof of anything.
Suppose you have an econ degree from a school that teaches Keynesian econ...
There is book smart and then there is intelligent. Our modern society often confuses one for the other. So says the man without a degree.
By way of analogy, and as I often (rhetorically) ask, should we be impressed by all the 'highly-educated' academics in and from the former USSR who have PhDs in Marxist Economics (sic)? Do or should their degrees, in and of themselves, confer ANY measure of meaningful learning or relevance?
Please oh please show me where there is use of statistics in Austrian Economic theory. Show me any proof other than rhetoric. I've read through the works of all of the founding fathers of Austrian Economic theory. Not a single one ever used mathematics. Even the heavens are described through numerical relations, at least in a way that lets us understand. Yes, statistics can lie, but they are the only way the truth can be described. Keynsian Economics relies on numerical validation, don't blame the system if the overlords abuse it. If the masses use common sense, why the hell are people so dumb? Obviously "common" sense isn't that damn common. Austrian economics is no more useful than a psychology degree from A.S.U. as long as it keeps refusing to use numbers. Lots of people say shit without giving proof. Are you going to believe them?
Also.... I forgot about Roger Garrison http://www.auburn.edu/~garriro/tam.htm
See, "Man, Economy and the State with Power and Markets" by Rothbard. You can also peruse any journal on Austrian economics to see current studies and papers published. All use statistics and mathematics to support proofs. Keynsian models rely on a form of mathematical modeling that starts with equilibrium as an assumption. Since equilibrium is changed with each transaction, the assumption is false and provides false models.
Austrian economic theory is a school of thought and is constantly evolvng. Reading snippets from Menger, Bawerk, Mises or Hayek is the same as saying you read some essays by Descarte and now you can critique mathematics.
Numbers - "overlords abuse it" and "masses... why are people so dumb" while not exact those represent numbers. Keynesianism cannot account for those numbers. Austrians do. It's like trying to solve a math problem but not including all of the factors versus including all of the factors.
Another math thingy: A bumblebee is aerodynamically (the math part) unable to fly and yet it does.
No, just Austrian.
Hitler was Austrian.
On another note,...how many 'Muricans who saw that thought it was about Australia?
Haha.
The dumbing down of America has been completed.
So....is that where they get the word "Austerity"? 'cuz, like, that is bad and stuff.
<-- Austrian Philharmonic
<-- Keynesian Ensemble
Which of the above would you prefer to own?
<<<< Australian Didgerido
<<<< Kenyan Choom Bongo
I don’t care whether you want to call it Kenyan or Australian economics, whatever the freaking Fed is doing that results in its loading up with $4 Trillion in heavily toxic waste laden assets and conducting regular operations in which it effectively buys high and sells low, it is just plain idiotic and is not in the best interests of the country.”
But ask the experts who voted the not-Keynesian, but American in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBrHkxqNT7s
No, they need to learn Austrian!
/sarc off
"relies solely on logic, and does not seek statistical validation for its claims."
Well , modern government schooling ( universities are schools too these days ) tries hard to abolish that barbaric relict called "logic".
"and does not seek statistical validation for its claims"
And what about West Germany compared to East Germany? Or South Korea compared to North Korea? Anyone here who knows the stats?
I hazard to guess that maybe 10 percent of Americans could find Austria on a map.
I imagine the number that have even heard of Austrian Economics would be much less than one percent.
Interesting fact, you can buy an Austrian passport for a cool 10 million USD.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/business/world-overlooked-countries-second-citizenship/
Darn tootin' I know where that Austria place is --- that's where that Crocodile Hunter guy was from. Right next door to India or someplace, the same island that some people call New Zeeland, right? You know, where everyone barbacues kangaroos and talks funny and gets a little too friendly with the sheep.
Yes, akak, your right as usual.
'Grande Tetons’ 11 weeks 23 hours
Biography
Retired porn star. = troll
All 'murkans care about today is EBTnomics anyway. Where mah free shit at yo!
Collapse theory is the only theory that applies to the status quo. Everything else is only useful to explain how we got the status quo.
Life is a death sentence....governments and economic schools can't change that.
Here is interesting debate MMT vs Austrian school (W. Mosler vs Bob Murphy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUTLCDBONok
Yes, very interesting even tough I think MMT seems to forget that the economy is not just money.
Right, economy is not just money, however without money there would be NO economy. Money = debt = force to participate the economy.
Money is a means of exchange solving the double coincidence of wants problem. Money is not debt. It only is when you spend it all.
You are not forced to participate in the economy. However, you are forced to keep your body temperature at around 37C and ingest a certain amount of calories everyday. Being involved in the economy facilitates this quite a lot.
Neoclassical thinking ...
No, classical actually. You got your history upside down. There were classical liberals, then the Keynsians took over. Not the other way around.
Doenst matter, Alan. "Money is a means of exchange solving the double coincidence of wants problem" is a main assumption of to neoclassical theory as well.
Not an assumption. If the Keynesians and the Austrians agree, perhaps it's true ? You really have enough to take on both sides ?
What is the double coincidence of wants ?
The theory is called Debitism. There is hardly any useful information about about it in English. It emerged from Gunnar Heinsohn's private property theory.
And yes, its claiming the exchange-paradigm is wrong. Some minor, mostly nonscientific information can be found here
http://blog.heidi-barathieu-brun.ch/wp-archive/1191
Just make the arguments yourself.
Money is used to pay taxes. Thats its main function and its origin.
It comes into existence at the same time debt comes into existence. At the very beginning the state has to get into debt to supply the banking system with money. We already have private property, it would be exhausting to explain the origin of private property as well, so I just skip it. Just some words: Without private propery the FIRST value of money emerges from taxes. Taxes give money a valuation - it causes some kind of maturity. From scratch it would not work with FIAT money - it would require some other (short supplied) good used as money (e.g. gold, silver, cattle).
In our current states (after monetary reform e.g.), private people and corporations can (or MUST) hypothecate their property to the banks to get money and to be able to pay taxes. Taxes HAVE to be paid on time, so the people and corporations are under pressure to get more money to paid off debt AND taxes. As debt is tied to interest, there will NEVER be enough money for EVERYONE to pay off all debt/taxes, resulting in more pressure to get other peoples money.
...
Money is not primarily used to exchange goods - it is used to pay off debt and taxes. Trading is just NEEDED get hands on (short supplied) money.
This leads to an ever increasing debt / money supply that cannot be balanced at any time. (Theoretically it could, in reality there too many contracts, too many relations).
It works great, as long as population growth is increasing, workforce is increasing, other nations are conquered and indebted, or new properies are created allowing more debt by hypothecating.
A basic debt from an abstract point of view is to stay alive. To pay off this abstract debt one needs to participate the economy as well.
The value of money emerges from debt/taxes and their maturity. The value of goods is derived by markets, however these markets are a subfunction. At the very basis, valuation is only possible if you hypothecate the good to get money to pay taxes. Nowadays its much more complex, as almost everything has a valuation already. We have markets for everything.
Question to the sceptics. What would happen if the state repayed its debts and repealed tax laws. No more taxes to pay. Whould you expect the economy to keep working? Why?
Loaded question. You can't extinguish debt with more debt. Until I reached your question, I assumed you knew that- maybe not.
It's not just the "state", amigo. Under the current system all money is debt. IF everyone paid off all their debt, there would be no currency!
Don't take my word for it:
"If all the bank loans were paid no one would have a bank deposit and there would not be a dollar of coin or currency in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous: if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It (the banking problem) is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon."
-Robert Hemphill
Credit Manager, Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta
The thing ol' Bob here fails to mention is that debt carries interest. If I borrow 100K at 10% for one year, I owe 110K at maturity, right? Does the bank give me 110K? Nooooo! Here's a question from a skeptic; Where does the extra 10K come from?
The extra 10K comes from other people getting into debt (different maturity). You have to participate to the economy to 'earn' the 10K (convince others to trade your workforce or goods for their money). - In a non-expansive system (economy) its a ponzi scheme.
Yes, "if everyone paid off all their debt, there would be no currency!" plus there would be no economy.
My question was in regard to public debt. What happens if THE STATE pays off its debt and taxes are abolished?
Good answer, thanks! Truly though, in this system, THE STATE cannot pay it's debt, but not because it's broke (it is). The debt is "the current(cy)" in the big wide river we have come to know as the "economy".
Without massive debt, the big wide river would look like the LA river in late summer, dry. My contention is this; If the state were somehow miraculously able pay off its debt, the big wide river would dry up overnight. That's not the real economy, though.
The real economy is everyday folk providing goods and services to other everyday folk. All else is bullshit, make believe, Unicorns and Skittles- and anything you or I invest in it will vaporize the day the CONfidence dies.
Will everyday folk be adversely affected by the sudden realization that the whole fkn game is a huge scam? Yes.
Will they survive while the millions who live by the grace of financialization perish? Yes.
Will the perpetrators of this grand farce be drawn and quartered by the survivors? God, I hope so!
The real economy is addicted to the "scam part" of the economy at the moment. There are too many relationships, too many contracts - too much complexity. The day confidence dies, the world as we know it is most likely dying too. It will be extremley important to keep important infrastructure serviced then. Otherwise nuclear power plants would go bust and after just a few days people in big cities would start to run out of food and water.
This emergency servicing, supply chain issues, energy dependence are new to mankind. Every crisis or collapse in the past was peanuts compared to todays situation.
I am not so sure if we (as a non-hierarchical community) will be able to organize the things that need to be done. We will have to rely on the state and most probably the police. If things go 'well' not much will change. A currency reform would be the most likely solution. The rich 'scumbags' would lose some wealth, the poors would gain some wealth.
If all that fails, we are going to have some 'interesting' times ahead. I do not think anyone would waste time looking for the 'scumbags' in this case.
Ya know Kurz, I never did directly answer your question, so here goes:
The taxes we pay are pure profit to those who allow us to use "their money". Our taxes don't pay for roads, or schools, or police, or foreign wars, or studies on why Japanese kids aren't getting married. All of those things are funded with the debt that provides the current(cy) for the big, wide river I mentioned earlier.
As such, we are money launderers. We daily take bullshit and turn it into real profit for people we wouldn't piss on if we found them blazing.
Fuck heirarchy. That's how we got here.
Money is used to pay taxes. Thats its main function and its origin
That assumes organized government came before trade.
Not exactly. It means that organized power structures came before trade.
A power entity is needed that claims tribute (taxes).
If there is no entity there is no trade and hardly no bartering. Check out the history of mankind. Tribal communitues do not trade - they share.
Viruses do not come up with hosts. You need hosts to have viruses.
As humanity found ways to increase their standards of living and they always do, this create excess wealth (ie: more output than is needed to simply survive) which then creates an opportunity for viruses to leech. If there is no excess wealth, then viruses cannot leech as they would simply kill the host.
The exchange pardigm is certainly wrong. this conclusion comes from studying the actual operations of older cultures. Exchange was facilitated by person to person debt; and the notation and dating of that debt; not by an abstraction called money. Money is overwhelmingly identified with the State.
NO! NO! NO! ...
FIAT money = debt = force
Real money, that is gold and silver are not debt to anyone!
Don't feel bad you are acting stupid because that's what they taught you in public schools.
However, you could do some reading on the Internet and educate your self.
Town meeting starts in 5 min. I am here to vote to spend moar fiat on things like
Education. Sounds like school needs a new roof.
very very good interview with dr. hudson-
http://www.extraenvironmentalist.com/2013/10/16/episode-67-bubble/
for those of you who it bothered before... he is so irrate that the erratic erh ah uhms are gone.
People on the left, especially those who love to scold the rest of us about "sustainability" frequently call people who insist that logic must dictate policy as being "hard right". That also appears to apply to people who insist that 1 plus 1 only and always equals 2.
This as compared to people who insist that raising the federal debt ceiling will not result in more debt. Those people are reasonable and compassionate in their thinking.
True. They really are getting on my mantits. On the one hand, it's all about man made global warming and the market not thinking long term, and on the other, raise the debt ceiling, spend and print like that has no consequence on limited scarce ressources and on their infinitely repeated man made global warming line.
^^THIS^^
Having failed to check their premise, the paradox awaits.
An infinite loop!
The man made global warming freaks are a cult; for the sake of mental hygiene they need to be studiously ignored. It's absolutely false; it doesn't exist, etc. etc. Just another mass delusion; one among many.
"Critics say Austrian economics is 'bad' because it doesn't look to statistics to back it up."
They just make up whatever statistics they feel like anyway.
Statistics aren't "for" anything, they just are.
For starters you could plot the long term success and prosperity of different national economies with greater/less central planning, tax burden and control.
"Statistics are for econometrics, not economics"
Well, that term "statistical validation" rather stems from
the early school of sociologists who tried to be taken seriously as scientists.
Some interesting books on my shelf`s from the 1920ies
and those sociologist come up with numbers the hoaxers
would love to hate.
Reminds me of the saying "Figures lie and lairs do a lot of figuring". :-)
Jesus, fuck Austrian economics. Another ideology based on intuition.
It is axiomatic, not intuitive.
Read the first two chapters of "Human Action."
"It is axiomatic, ..."
Would it be a geometry ?
And if yes, wouldn't it be just another system that could be changed simply by choosing arbitrarily an other set of axioms ?
Oh Keynesians, you may ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality!
Axiom, n., definition 1a. OxfordEnglish Dictionary Online - "A proposition that commends itself to general acceptance; a well-established or universally conceded principle; a maxim, rule, law".
"Axiom, n., definition 1a. OxfordEnglish Dictionary Online - "A proposition that commends itself to general acceptance; a well-established or universally conceded principle; a maxim, rule, law"."
Like the axiom of the parallels ?
"... Euclid's parallel postulate did not seem as "intuitive" as the other axioms....
In 1823, Janos Bolyai and Lobachevsky independently realized that entirely self-consistent "non-Euclidean geometries" could be created in which the parallel postulate did not hold. "
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ParallelPostulate.html
And no, I can't honestly qualify as keynesian.
Mises wrote at length about the epistemology of economics. He grouped it with mathematics and logic, the apriori sciences. He argued that, as a science, economic laws cannot be determined by empirical methods, primarily since human behavior cannot be predictable as the physical sciences are. Read Theory and History and the first two chapters of Human Action. Both works can be found at Mises.org. Let me know if you can confute his ideas on methodological dualism.
Thank you .
So let's see what that kind of "geometry" looks like .
http://www.mises.org/document/118/Theory-and-History-An-Interpretation-of-Social-and-Economic-Evolution
http://www.mises.org/document/3250/Human-Action
Both works should be required reading for any student of economics or history.
Agreed. It's a very valuable website; the free library is a real public service.
Yes; go do your homework; when you see what the axioms are; you won't be in such a hurry to change them; as they are based on common sense and everyday life. Intended for Daemon; didn't come out in the right place; don't know how to change it.
" ... they are based on common sense ... "
Such a pity that kind of stuff seems to depend so much on the prejudice of the people. So much so, apparently, that it's often required to abandon it, to make "objective" observations .
You will find that attempts to treat economics in the same way, for example, as physics and chemistry lead to subjective conclusions. The basis for empirical science is unwavering predictability based on experiments. A ball will drop at the same velocity in a controlled experiment every single time. There is no such predictability when it comes to human activity. The human might favor sirloin steak one day, then favor leg of lamb the next. Any attempt to study human action using the same techniques as the physical sciences is immediately invalid and conclusions drawn from such attempts are entirely subjective.
Thanks for the intro .
I'm happy to assist.
Mises had more intellect than 10,000,000 Paul Krugmans.
MDB, is that you?
Learn the ilks bs now. By their words and actions we will know them. That way you can spot them after this all implodes..and walk by as they beg for table scraps. Fuck off Heinrich 666, you wont even get to lick my boot for an appitizer for the shit sandwich im gonna watch you eat....soon bitch...soon.
RIPS
Models built on intuitions and assumptions are much more accurate. Agreed.
"Jesus, fuck Austrian economics. Another ideology based on intuition."
Not really, mostly on common (historic) sense. The only that explains human behaviour in terms of time preferences, as far I know, and that is helpful, in the long run
Back to the article:
"Politically, Austrian economics lines up closely with libertarianism"
In the US, yes. In the eurozone, it's closer to conservatives, particularly (but not only) of the authoritarian, nationalist persuation. and we eurozoners "austrians" are more Rothbardian than Misean in our opinion on central banks
Anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron.
Ordo Ab Chao
No nationalist, authoritatrian political entity can find anything to feed on or sustain its life or opinions in either Rothbard or Mises. Rothbard was an enemy of the State; nothing could be more clear. Your statement is rubbish.
my statement is rubbish if you include the political opinions of Mises and Rothbard. my statement is not rubbish if you stay in the economics realm
it goes back to the the original sentence "Politically, Austrian economics lines up closely with libertarianism"
as such, an "Austrian" understanding of economics does not have to translate with a political stance like the US libertarianism, particularly in a political environment like those we generally have on our continent, with parliaments elected through multi-party electoral systems
-------
edit: I made a mistake, above. I should have written Hayekian, instead of Rothbardian
Yet my statement is sound, imho. The way to look at the economy is similar, and distinctly opposed to both Keynesians and neo-Keynesians
"the world would be a terrible place if"
This implies it isn't already a terrible place. Imagine that, economists making up their own realities!
I've read that it isn't the fact that we have fiat money that's the problem, but the fact that those fiat dollars belong to a private club that siphons off our real wealth through usurous interest.
If they just let the Treasury handle the debt, we would indeed be only owing the debt to ourselves.
I've read that "they" will never let the Treasury handle the debt,
and that you will owe "them" the debt.
The problem is attaching interest to the currency. If the US wants to utilize a fiat currency, it can print its own currency instead of obtaining that currency by borrowing it from a private monopoly bank and paying that bank interest.
Interest gets people interested in your currency in the first place.
If backed by something great, like your empire or your reserve status. And the interesting choices that not liking
the empire or reserve currency status entails.
Next is means of exchange which is greatly facilitated
by a cannon boat near by any your harbor.
Liquidity is what could break your neck, printing presses
could do but so would new ripp-off schemes like making health taxable no matter how sickly designed ...
This is not actually true. It's been done before. "Printing it's own currency" results in the same spending for the sake of spending party on the part of the politicians and the same inflationary collapse.
You either trust your savings and your welfare to the eternal value of Gold or the Eternal promises of politicians. Fiat never works well; even in the medium term; and in the long term it has a 100% failure rate; which is rather discouraging.
same as Christianity needing a Hell
You could do a lot worse than having Walter Block for a spokesperson. Very down to earth and sensible.
If you're trying to get the Austrian model more into the mainstream, that was a pretty poor news segment, in my opinion.
I thought the Austrian School was like Rosetta Stone or something.
- B. H. Obama
Austrian economics is another primitive theory that believes the economy is in equilibrium. Spend money in the public sector? THAT'S MONEY DEPRIVED OF THE PRIVATE SECTOR.
Another religion. Go listen to another King World News 'broadcast' [commercial] on gold.
There is one theory connecting all the missing links. Its called Debitism. However, you wont find anything about it on google. It seems to be a German-only theory.
There is a fair amount of economic thought that has never been widely translated from German to English (must be one of those old world/secret society conspiracy thingys...)
"Debitism regards the economy not as its sum of exchanges, but as its sum of debt relations."
I found it on google along with messaage boards and other articles.
Heinrich, you're pretty much an idiot, from what I can tell.
He's from the gub'mint
But his thought processes are from the animal world.
Resources are limited and scarce. Money is tied to them, thus, when a government spends money it summons from thin air, it consumes some of these as well, depriving non government institutions of them. Resources cannot be printed, minted or debited.
Heinrich,
That peice of paper you worship costs 7.5 cents to make 100$ that you trade for you life....whos the sucker now ...idiot?
Why dont you and Krugman go find a quiet cabin and take turns poling eachothers asses while you blow the kensian smoke up each others cunts? Literally....you might be happy there.
Why are you here again?
Oh I forgot ..youre a troll. If youre not..i have an invisible robe that costs a billion ( in physical silver)or so id like to sell you.
Rips
Time for this again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk
Now, if only the semi-autistic Austrian economists could tell us what to do with the bottom 50% of the population after they are screwed by the top 50%.
The Libertarian and Socialist fantasies can never accomidate what to do with the abnoral poeple at the top and bottom.
The Keynesians have shown the upper 1% how to screw the other 99%.
50/50 sounds good to me...
8>D
Re: 50/50 sounds good to me...
Ya still need to figure out what to do with bottom 50% AFTER they have been screwed by the top 50%.
ever-deminishing returns, though; it is now the upper 0.001% vs the 99.999%
Well they tried. They obviously don't understand the topic if they think it is about legalizing pot. Anyhow, own gold. The Austrians are always right about the macro.
RM, why do you think the book is called "HUMAN ACTION"? The Austrian school certainly does consider "human ecology."
No, Thisson, the Austrian school views "human ecology" in the same way as the dominant biggest bullies' bullshit world view. Real human ecology should put the death control factors at the center of everything else. In any energy system, the most labile component controls that system. In the case of human systems, the people who are the best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence, control the system. The path of least resistance, or least action, along which human events flow, is the path of least morality.
As soon as one has any living things, one has the package deal of potential exponential growth, which no environment can possibly sustain. Ecologies evolve as the natural ways to limit impossible growth. Human history has been all about our ability to be intelligent vastly expanding our potential niches, and therefore, almost all of human history has been one huge triumphant exponential growth. We barely know anything else, and do not have publicly accepted concepts to cope with anything else. Furthermore, the primary way that real human ecology actually evolved was through our death control systems being developed as murder systems, through the history of warfare, wherein success depended up deceits, and therefore spies were the most important soldiers. Therefore, whenever human ecologies did develop to adapt to limits, for some significant period of time, they did so through militarism.
Thus, economics is always organized lies, operating organized robberies, where those who are best at doing that got to call themselves the "good guys" and set up a bunch of false fundamental dichotomies, and related impossible ideals, to justify and rationalize what they were doing. Everyone has some power to rob, and some power to kill to back that up. The history of warfare selected for those groups who were the best at that to become dominate. Those groups became the systems of War Kings, that made the sovereign states, which were covertly taken over by the Fraud Kings, the bankers, more and more in the last few Centuries, with the USA in the last Century, and almost the whole world since World War II.
The entire Austrian school does not account for any of those central social facts. It does not deal with the paradox of enforcement regarding any kind of Rule of Law, that nobody guards the guardians. It does not provide anything remotely close to a deeper understanding of human beings as energy systems generating evolutionary ecologies. IF it did, then it would have to deal with the paradoxes that those who are the best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence, actually DO control the world.
So, naw, Austrian Economics is just more goofy bullshit, which is why the Libertarians like it, since they like their old-fashioned ideology, in the same ways as many other kinds of goofy fundamentalist religions work. Everything they say should be treated like ore, or raw material to stimulate thinking about things, but which needs to be smelted quite a bit more before it becomes useful. My main points are about how and WHY government IS organized crime, operated by the best organized criminals, and the only genuine solutions would be better organized crime. The central issues are the murder systems, operating the death controls. Those actually work in DE FACTO ways. Theories about what they should be, or that they should not exist at all, are usually plainly stupid wishful thinking.
Our real problems are TRILLIONS OF TIMES WORSE, than almost anybody that I am aware of in the mainstream, or its controlled opposition, will admit to being the case. We ALREADY have a global system of electronic fiat money frauds, backed up by atomic bombs, which has recently become quadrillions of times more insane than human beings appear able to imagine! Since the history of human conflict selected for Neolithic Civilizations to be controlled by the best organized criminals, who therefore get to call themselves the government, and assert that they are the "good guys," everything we do is being based on huge lies, backed by lots of violence, which has taken the form of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence.
The Austrian Economics does not address that, nor cope with it, and neither does any other school of economics which I am aware of being sufficiently publicly present to have a label. Indeed, the supreme paradox of militarism, that success in warfare depended upon deceits, has generated the current dilemmas of society almost totally dominated by the biggest bullies' bullshit view of the world, and the entire school of Austrian Economics operates within that world view, as controlled opposition, the same as all other opposition that I am aware of, which significantly exists at all in the public space.
Our society has evolved its human ecology and political economy to go down the path of least resistance, to be based on the maximum possible deceits and frauds. The USA, as the world leader at the present time, (although in decline now) is therefore the world leader in manifesting control by the best professional liars and immaculate hypocrites that money can buy. That is why the dominant mainstream economics, as promoted, or worshiped, by the mass media, as our sacred state religion, is based upon a fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting system, whose runaway debt slavery is generating nutty numbers which have become debt insanities.
There are no established schools of economics that understand evolutionary human ecology in any deeper ways which are consistent with more thorough understanding of energy systems, and certainly none that recognize that the way we think about "entropy" is also BACKWARDS, because that concept too fell before the power the biggest bullies' bullshit world view. It is extremely problematic to comprehend how any more radical truth could even barely survive, given the paradoxical ways that the REAL death controls tend to operate through the maximum possible deceits about themselves, especially including that they never admit the truth about themselves, but rather are based on being able to deny that as much as possible. Therefore, the established systems operate the maximum possible death control deceits, which made and maintain the established systems of the maximum possible financial frauds, and those present problems which are TRILLIONS OF TIMES, IF NOT INFINITELY MORE, WORSE THAN ALMOST ANYBODY ADMITS, OR CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT!!!
We are stuck muddling through the MADness of Mutual Assured Destruction weapons backing up Money As Debt systems! There were good reasons WHY those systems evolved to be what they are now, but understanding those good reasons drives one to have to face the social facts about how totally insane human civilizations have become, since they are based on triumphant social pyramid systems, whose foundations are human slavery systems, whereby those few who are best at being dishonest, and backing that up with violence, control almost everyone else by keeping them ignorant and afraid. Furthermore, the only genuine resolutions to the deeper, chronic political problems would STILL require that there must be some kind of death controls, or murder systems, in order that there can be any debt controls, or monetary systems. Since the ACTUAL systems operate themselves through their success at being deceitful and fraudulent, and almost everyone, for many, many generations, has adapted to live within those systems, there is almost nobody and nothing which is remotely close to providing better theories about economics, and certainly not Austrian Economics, and even less the mainstream theories, which are favoured by the banksters!
Confusing economics with political criminality and throwing them both out just results in more ignorance or semi-religious rants. Economics is compartmentalized and imperfect, like most studies and subject to further refinement. I have no idea what you're so angry about, but complaining about a judahite system, where science, law and finance are used to enslave entire populations, will hardly do anything to resolve that.
Misdirected anger will only make the destruction easier, no? Unless you hope to sow the seeds of conflict?
I am not attempting to "sow the seeds of conflict." I am merely laying out what I have discovered to be what I believe are the main social facts. I am angry that human beings are behaving in suicidal, if not omnicidal, ways, and even more depressed that there is apparently nothing which is practically possible to stop that runaway social insanity regarding things like what has been done to develop the use of atomic power, etc. ... I do agree that "complaining about a judahite system, where science, law and finance are used to enslave entire populations, will hardly do anything to resolve that."
As far as I can tell, we are totally screwed by a social pyramid/slavery system that is being pumped up trillions of times by technology! I WISH that there was some way to direct my anger that could be effective, however, I am not able to think of anything that could realistically work. The world is careening out of control, due to be dominated by frauds, which will not be stopped until their madness destroys themselves, and almost everything else as well.
Anyway, there is certainly nothing realistic in the ideals of Austrian Economics, nor Libertarianism, to deal with the magnitude of the real problems, and the bozoes that down vote the statement of those facts do not change those facts by their disapproval. THE REAL WORLD IS CONTROLLED BY THE MOST DISHONEST AND VIOLENT PEOPLE, AND NOT FACING THAT FACT PROVIDES NOTHING BUT BOGUS "FEEL" GOOD BULLSHIT. THAT THOSE PEOPLE HAVE TECHNOLOGIES WHICH MAKE THEM TRILLIONS OF TIMES MORE POWERFUL ONLY MAKES THE PROBLEMS TRILLIONS OF TIMES WORSE.
isn't it an import from British Classical Liberalism? The Paradigm of "The Tragedy of The Commons"? Which I see as a sleek propaganda piece, btw
I woud suggest it is closer to French classical liberalism+ time preference. Think Say, Cantillion and Bastiat. Smith, Ricardo, Keynes and others all tried to advance a labor theory of value (never succeeded) which is verboten to Austrians.
DOW closed -1? What manner of travesty is this? Frankly, I'm outraged!
So an old shitty theory is making the news because the current shitty theory is showing wear and tear?
I'm starting to doubt ZH. This Chicken Little shit is making me rub my nuts a lot. When's the end going to come? I keep waiting.
Maybe we ought to BUY GOLD. Which is to say, suck our own dicks as Homeland Security is pumping 1.6 billion rounds into us. I guess another interview with Kyle Bass will make us feel better though.
Let us know when you're done with ad hominem and you want to start using facts.
Austrian Economics... exposing junk-science enonomics on the regular.
It is the duty of ever Merican citizen to get dual citizen status.
If you believe in the marketplace, you have to do so.
"..that people should be allowed to make whatever choices they feel are best for them, so long as they do not hurt other people."
How novel.
"Ron Paul. He also wants to shrink the government, get rid of the Federal Reserve, and let people make the decisions that are best for them."
People make the decisions which they want make, not neccesarily those that are the best for them. "They made stupid choices" becomes a subsequent remark by those who proclaim that people know better what to do with their money, than the government does.
"Americans tend to believe there is a need for regulation, especially in the financial sector. But Washington state and Colorado have already legalized marijuana for recreational use"
I don't see the connection between the two.
When the investment banks were allowed unrestricted leverage, they ALL crashed, after recklessly leveraging up. It would have been better to have the investment banks remain regulated and not crash.
Yeah, Tyler! Will now have to email this link to my affluent Moderate-GOP friend who recently commented on ZH as being "fringe". Statist!
I spoon feed myself thruthiness from MSDNCBS.
LEAN FOWARD
Das ist super
Knödl mit Käse und Brot für alle
Tut mir Leid, das sind vorboten am Obamacareplan.
Australian economics....meh.
Arnold Schwarzenegger is Austrian. ;-)
He also believes guns -- lots of G & A -- in the power of the market place, freedom and privacy. Especially privacy.
That's why part of my stack equal weight Austrian Philhamonics, Canadian Maple leaf, U.S. Eagle, SA Krugerand, Chinese Panda, Aussie Koala. You can't know which countries economy is going to come out on top so you have to hedge your investments.
Failure is only allowed for individuals and families.
Banks, insurers, and corporations will be bailed out by taxpayers; unless of course, they need a sacrificial lamb to be gobbled up by a bigger wolf who will leave the entrails for the taxpayers and be petted by the Shepards (Countrywide, WaMu, etc.).
"will be bailed out by taxpayers"
And taxpayers are a creation of government.
"The most common criticism of Austrian economics is that it relies solely on logic, and does not seek statistical validation for its claims"
After Greenaspan took the lending standards to ZERO, he later lamented after the financial crash, that he thought the bankers would have been more responsible. Greenspan is the poster boy for theory and practice being two separate things.
Any system that assumes that people are rational will fail.
So doubling down with an irrational system for irrational people is better?
The Mises Monks' (latter day Austrians) idea of proper management of a Medium of Exchange (MOE) is every bit as wrong as the Keynsians'. The former gives us stifling deflation ... the latter stifling inflation. Both are very very bad. Inflation should be zero ... plain and simple.
Todd Marshall
Plantersville, TX
In our Brave New World, we embrace the Economics of Emotion instead of the Austrian Economics of Logic. I emote therefor I am,instead of I think therefor I am. Next, they'll apply emotion to Nature and reality. I want so Nature and reality will provide.