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Big Brother Is Coming To Your Car
Submitted by Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,
This is a topic that has been on my radar screen for a while, but one that very few Americans seem to be paying attention to despite the egregious revelations concerning NSA spying that have emerged recently. I first flagged this issue in late 2012 in an article titled: Coming to Your Car: Mandatory Black Boxes That Record Everything.
The latest push for tracking devices in cars is being sold as necessary in order to raise funds to pay for the nation’s decayed highway infrastructure. For example:
As America’s road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.
This is simply idiotic. There is already a tax per gallon on gasoline, so people are already being taxed based on how much they drive. Only a control-freak, moronic government bureaucrat would come to the conclusion that the solution to this problem is to install Orwellian tracking devices in people’s cars.
More from the LA Times:
WASHINGTON — As America’s road planners struggle to find the cash to mend a crumbling highway system, many are beginning to see a solution in a little black box that fits neatly by the dashboard of your car.
The devices, which track every mile a motorist drives and transmit that information to bureaucrats, are at the center of a controversial attempt in Washington and state planning offices to overhaul the outdated system for funding America’s major roads.
Are people really so dumb they will agree to this? Probably.
And while Congress can’t agree on whether to proceed, several states are not waiting. They are exploring how, over the next decade, they can move to a system in which drivers pay per mile of road they roll over. Thousands of motorists have already taken the black boxes, some of which have GPS monitoring, for a test drive.
This really is a must for our nation. It is not a matter of something we might choose to do,” said Hasan Ikhrata, executive director of the Southern California Assn. of Governments, which is planning for the state to start tracking miles driven by every California motorist by 2025. “There is going to be a change in how we pay these taxes. The technology is there to do it.”
The push comes as the country’s Highway Trust Fund, financed with taxes Americans pay at the gas pump, is broke. Americans don’t buy as much gas as they used to. Cars get many more miles to the gallon. The federal tax itself, 18.4 cents per gallon, hasn’t gone up in 20 years. Politicians are loath to raise the tax even one penny when gas prices are high.
Loath to raise the tax, so let’s put a tracking device in every car instead. I don’t even know where to begin…
As the trial got underway, the ACLU of Nevada warned on its website: “It would be fairly easy to turn these devices into full-fledged tracking devices…. There is no need to build an enormous, unwieldy technological infrastructure that will inevitably be expanded to keep records of individuals’ everyday comings and goings.”
But it’s for the highways people. You like highways don’t you? I’m sure it’ll piss off the terrorists too.
What a sad state of affairs.
Full article here.
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depends what you mean by free. i have done so many times in the past, and there is a risk associated with that, as with all activities.
you're asking me if i'm knowledgeable about govt activity regarding insurance anti-trust enforcement? it's an odd question. no, i don't have any particular info on that. but govt enforcement like the SEC, CFTC, tends to be largely inefficient, ineffectual, and corrupt.
more or less, yes, we agree on that point. but let's stick to the facts instead of making up hypothetical scenarios - do all insurance companies require bb use? don't you understand how the market works, and that if there is customer demand for something, a company will meet that demand?
Economic cannabalism.
The government is collapsing. They know it. They are going to claw at every bit of wealth they can get thier dirty hands on... all the way down. This is how empires die.
Right. Promise healthcare, RAISE REVENUES, then trim services.
I've also heard about technical problems at the ObummerCare website which will never affect me cause I ain't signing up.
You are driving too much. Extra tax scrutiny or carpool
this regime wants you to be relegated to your district. stay within your county and stay as close to home as possible.
additionally, obama would love nothing more than to kill the suburbs and force everyone into the cities. he needs tax revenues to flow back to his constituents who hang out in the city all day and collect checks from the working class. this has been widely dicusssed in some circles.
All those roads would make great bicycle paths.
Its a crime to get within 3 feet of a bike here. roads are shrinking as the bike lanes are created all over the city.
The bikers hate the autos.
You will not travel by air, train, or bus (TSA), or by car (new tracking device), without permission. Those who must travel for their jobs, such as truck drivers and airline pilots, will be subject to fingerprinting and background checks.
None of this applies to David Rockefeller, however. He travels internationally without a passport and never worries about customs or TSA.
I WILL NOT COMPLY! Needs to start being the mantra of the Amurikan people.
it would be a lie...
I believe this is Research In Motion technology.
They better make sure the car can't run without it. Otherwise, I'm taking it out and feeding it to an aligator.
Track that assholes.
New crime on the books. Trade it for a cell.
Edit: the swat team doesn't knock so don't do it.
They hate us for our freedoms.
We have any left???????????????????
Exactly *they* do.
If you have nothing to hide, you'll gladly accept whatever the government wants to track. I wish I could get that tattooed somewhere, just to see who gives it a thumbs up.
Sadly, probably more than you would expect.
Tattoo? Phht. If you were a loyal Murikan, you'd get an RFID chip implanted in your right hand. You know, so that you can buy and sell.
You know, that may be the answer to all this bullshit. Create a group that is hard core for all this tracking. Publicly shout down anyone who is against it. Bumper stickers, endorse candidates that vote for NSA etc. Really get behind all those great politicians that are taking such good care of us.
If my car gets stolen in Newark , would I still be responsible for the mileage. On the bright side, it gives me a great excuse when people ask to borrow my car.
Fuel efficiency --> less gas = bad for govt because spending can NEVER go down. Also, most of the funds are already earmarked for pensions, salaries, medical and other benefits. It has happened over the years and is now showing itself. What was an abundance of funds is now nothing. Every time there is a peak in demand (which leads to peak revenues), politicians use that to plan into eternity and spend future monies now, including doleing out benefits (aka bribes) to get votes in the next election.
The next one, I assure you this happens to is solar.
More solar homes --> less electrical demand = energy surcharge on ALL homes in order to maintain the grid. Those on solar will NOT avoid this, they will be the targets first. There is absolutely no way the govt ever shrinks nor lets entities such as energy (which most cities share in the revenue) contract. Most major cities directly have a partnership with the local electrical utility and get a share of the revenues. Why else do you think they always agree on rate hikes? That means even more money for them to spend.
Also - if half the country went solar tomorrow, existing customers would eventually pay double the rate. Revenues cannot go backward, most utilities are guaranteed a rate of return on investments by law no matter how that has to happen, based on customer base.
Spain and the Czech Republic are already taxing solar power installations, for that very reason:
http://reneweconomy.com.au/2013/czech-follows-spain-in-deciding-to-tax-o...
The tax in Spain is €0.06 per kilowatt hour - sufficient to make it uneconomic to use solar. The power company's monopoly must be preserved.
The government's control must be preserved. It is imperative that everyone lives in a government run world, otherwise those in control would have to find a real job.
It's that cause and effect thing that is so easily forgotten.
It will not stop until the last remaining nutrients, from any source whatsoever, have been drawn up it's tube.
The government is not human; it is a living thing but more in the order of a face-hugging growth of undifferentiated tissue; that sucks, literally. Same with corporations. And these things have been granted human rights. Oh, it will get interesting brothers, believe it.
"The government is not human; it is a living thing but more in the order of a face-hugging growth of undifferentiated tissue; that sucks, literally."
If you say that is also pops out of stomachs to be born and it can't be killed, I'm totally calling up Sigourney Weaver.
Such is the state of American ignorance, if you were to poll 100 people on this topic after running ads on the TV, the vast majority would be in favor of it.
1 euro per liter, not gallon, tax here in Italy. Value of gasoline 60 cents. Total 1.60 euro/liter. We can send you Mario Monti to fix your tax issues :)
All your miles are belong to us.....
At what point does all of surveillance / monitoring / mandating / taxing / confiscating violate the basic right to life, liberty and and the pursuit of happiness?
It's "did" not "does".
The (constitutionally illegal) requirement of a license to use your own property, i.e. the public right of way was the end to that basic right.
www.yhvh.name/MISSION_AID/RIGHT_TO_DRIVE_NO_LICENSE.pdf
In my judgment that point has already been passed. NSA passed it under Bush. "Justice" Roberts finished kicking the corpse in June 2012. The Constitution is now a dead letter. A thing to be remembered out of the mists of history. Sad
I'll find a Tijuana chopshop to do the surgery. Or buy early models. Whatever it takes.
'
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Here we go people: They're starting to close the gates behind us.
Etolls
http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2013-10-22-zuma-at-anc-manifesto-...
http://www.sanral.co.za/e-toll/
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This is the beginning of the roll-out. Why South Africa? Because nobody cares or pays attention to those dopes.
They're working out the bugs, test running how to sell it to the proles.
These goddamn government weasels want to toll you, regulate, license you, watch you until you have nothing left, because they're broke, giving it away to the bums.
It's coming.
Prepare to revolt.
The footstampers are on the march. The insurance companies are F***ed with Google cars. They know it. So how are they going to keep revenues up? Bicycle insurance. Walking insurance. Increased rates everywhere.
Read about "ajusto" and all that ßµ££$‡Ï† how they want to track you in your car to save you money. Yaeahh……
(Anybody wonder when Google cars are on the road, what all the drivers of trucks and trains and planes are going to do when in another 5 years, ALL their jobs are gone? That'll never happen? What are we going to do with a permanently unemployed underclass of 20-30%)
The Ontario government floated the idea about toll roads. Think about it. You want to drive to the cottage between 12-8 on a Friday, you'll pay more!
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/25/ontario-premier-hints-at-new-tol...
NO I WON'T.
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How did we pay for all these roads, decades ago, when only the man worked and we had half the population?
Because we didn't have all the welfare bums, sucking our teats, sitting in the wagon, while we now push, as they tell us, 'faster! faster!"
Cut them off. Drain the swamp.
Prepare.
A can of spray paint to spray out the sensors will be our best weapon.
•?•
V-V
Just so you think about it: there were less roads & less damage to the roads from less usage, there being less cars & less freight weight by truck.
Here's an idea: all those businesses that really like having employees show up for work & having good roads to ship their products, try paying directly for repair of roads you use, group up with other businesses to save money, and demand tax for the same amount be reversed, turned into a credit, since the work is DONE & need not be paid for twice.
"Everything government touches turns to crap." Ringo Starr
Privatize all the roads and have the road companies compete on quality, service, and price.
there was a pothole on the side street where I grew up in california. I had hit it several times, as had many of the neighbors. phone calls, and a letter, got no action. me being a handy guy, bought a bag of asphalt patch, and some lap cement. I dug the hole even, and did a superior repair job. as I was finishing, a sheriff pulled up and asked me what I was doing. he called the county road department, and they showed up in ten minutes. after a rediculous negotiation session, I agreed to remove the patch material, and agree to not do any unauthorized road repairs in the future, or be arrested on the spot, for vandalism. they still didn't come back and fix the hole, for 3 months, and when they did, it was 2 trucks and six guys, for half a day, to do what I DID IN AN HOUR, WITH A WHEELBARROW AND HAND TOOLS, FOR $20
Then why do you still live there? If the place is so bad, so stupid, wouldn't you move? I would.
Back Doors by the NSA.
This is a great idea.
Solves the problem of how to pay the pensions of those seven $25.00/hr D.O.T. guys standing around watching the minimum wage new hire shovel cold patch in a pothole.
The fact they can sell the information to Home Depot about how many times you visited Lowes is just gravy.
Happy Motoring.
I thought the circus was in town the other day. I watched a road crew repairing the edge of two-lane country roads out here in the sticks. Full size road grader wtih a blade at 45deg, carving 6" of dirt off the edge. Road sweeper behind that, followed by a full size front end loader which took the loads from the sweeper and dumped it into the full size dump truck behind that. That was followed by an asphalt truck with one driver and two guys manning the chute at the rear. That was followed by a large drum roller and lastly the signage truck with a big arrow on it for tailing traffic. Whole circus was moving at 2mph...I live off two limerock roads and the country won't even come down the last one, we have to put it back together ourselves but we all pay the same taxes for roads. 9 guys to put 6" of asphalt down and we have 1000's on bennies and in jails doing jack shit in this county. And they wonder why they keep running out of money.
If they didn’t spend most of the highway trust money on billion dollar plus mass transit projects then there would be plenty of money to fix the roads and bridges.
Distance and your car battery is your friend for jamming these things. If it can't transmit.
You know this is going to piss off the EV crowd.
Only a control-freak, moronic government bureaucrat would come to the conclusion that the solution to this problem is to install Orwellian tracking devices in people’s cars.
No shortage of these type people.
There only seems to be a shortage of people who believe in freedom and are trying to stop them.
Well there goes my mileage deduction, rat bastards!
It's too late to worry. Your cell phone is on in your car, right? How about the traffic cameras everywhere? Oh, wait, and the insurance companies that allow you to be voluntarily tracked to get better rates? But wait, what about EZ Pass and other toll technology?
Wake up, you are ALREADY being tracked and your locations recorded for posterity every day. In NYC they have tracked people suspected of crimes with metrocards bought with credit cards.
Sell the Interstate
Every member of Congress, with only a handful of exceptions, needs to be told that the chance of being re-elected to their bloated, self-enriching, corporate whorin' job is precisely zero. Zero. Republican, Democrat--no difference.
And just who the hell is this greasy greaseball Nazi ??? ...
This really is a must for our nation. It is not a matter of something we might choose to do,” said Hasan Ikhrata, executive director of the Southern California Assn. of Governments
Hey, Hasan: Maybe we need to put a black box up your ass?
http://sierramadretattler.blogspot.com/2009/10/head-of-scag-is-former-so...
This really is a must for OUR nation...not just something that we might choose to do.
Bend over..
Anything for my country!
watch - next they'll try to tax breathing
oh wait nevermind they already do that via obamacare
I find this funny becasue these initiatives come from the very same crowd that Tyler loves to rile up about Soshulism. It's the gas guzzling builder/contractor/"self-made" jerks that love driving heavy duty this and hummer that for their business as a tax write off. They can't stand that they're actually doing the heavy lifting when it comes to highway funding through state and fed gas sales taxes so they want to shift the funding burden on the latte sipping Prius drivers w these mile trackers.
See, Tyler, that's the problem w being logically inconsistent. At some point the crazy you stir up comes back to haunt YOU. Ha ha ha.
Gas yourself. I'll make sure to drive my v8 a little bit harder today, in order to kill the planet just a little bit quicker.
there is a political group which thinks any subsidies for highways, regressive taxes on gasoline, should be removed, along with any sort of government policy to influence price of gasoline, (such as the trillions we spend killing terrorists in order to pump the oil from under their feet) their view is that driving is not a RIGHT granted by the Constitution, and we should let the free market determine the costs to drive an automobile, who builds the roads, and so on, they call themselves the Republicans
Whoever thought up this bit of silliness needs to be saddled up, rode hard with spurs, made to live on water, hay and oats for a week. Then, off to the glue factory...
Healthcare: You cannot opt out.
Carspy: You cannot opt out.
This is why I am going to have my e60 forever.
Fundamentally, this is the issue that pushed me over the edge in not trusting ANYTHING the so-called government is/was or intents to do.
If the feds and states were so determined to get more money based on road usage, they need only add up the miles driven between vehicle registrations and assess a tax factor on a weight class. 10x for odometer tampering. etc.
Did they even think about doing this?
Nope.
They want total control of your life with real-time monitoring.
This is a war folks. A war between the merger of government power for a for-profit corporate-fascist state and the Liberty of the Human Spirit.
The tip of the spear is the "Democratic Party" working in concert with Google to predict the ebb and flow of the population. This is no different than "The Mule" from Asimov's Second Foundation. We are living science fiction people.
Everyone is going to have to take a side in this struggle.
Plan accordingly.
(And fuck you Google/NSA. Go wipe your ass with someone else's Constitution.)
Even without such boxes police patrol cars now use high-res 360 degree IR cameras to capture all number plates and owner IDs, so every time you're near a police car your vehicle's use and location are logged, registration checked, and the person driving and passengers photographed. Same sort of thing is occurring with freeway, high-way and intersection 'traffic observation' cameras. Everywhere you go you're being watched, there's no place you would ordinarily travel where you're not monitored. Get out of the car and walk - same. They may as well implant mandatory chips at this point as they clearly want to, and we've already got RFIDs data chips in wallets and on SIM cards, that are read without at any time, without knowledge, reason or searches.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-09-09/nsw-police-quizzed-over-anpr-data/...
Orwell and his character Winston had no idea how far it would go.
with my new 3D printer i can make a new license plate every day
Problem is the system detects fake plates in near real-time in traffic. Apparently it can identify the car make, model and color, as well as plate numbers and state, and automatically cross-checks that with the registration database, to see if they're consistent. Maybe if you found a car or truck of the same make, model and color as your own, and printed it's plate you could get away with it. But they'd still detect the fake plate if you're pulled-over for another reason, because as soon as they check your license they'll detect that you seem to be in someone else's car.
I believe what you really need is database trigger code. Triggers run when a specific event occurs. You would need some geek in the gov to set a trigger so that when your plate number is inserted into the database, the trigger runs deleting the information in the next step.
i compile a list of people with cars like mine, and mimic their plate numbers. is suppsoe soon they won't use the old numbers, just print the VIN directly.
Yeah, or provide a mandatory electronic RFID chip with VIN on every car registered, that can be read remotely via electrical induction, same way they read your SIM and cards.
aw but cantya see its fer tha SHILLDREN
Allow companies to sponsor roads. If they can afford to sponsor football and golf they can afford to sponsor highways. Who would have a problem with travelling on Macdonalds Route 66?
Leave drivers the fuck alone, we have had enough.
It costs almost $50 in tolls to drive I-76 across PA. The road still sucks ass.
None of that money goes to the road, it goes to some fat fuck living in a 1400sq ft welfare palace outside Philadephia.
The toll portions of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (I-76) are owned and operated by the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission, which is a privately owned enterprise. The tolls are supposed to fund the upkeep of the road, but are usually pissed away on toll collector salaries and bennies, who of course are unionized.
Oh yes, the tolls would be much cheaper and roads much better, if only the toll collectors didn't get paid so much ... BULLSHIT! The company charges as much as it can get away with, regardless of what they pay their toll collectors. Perhaps the CEO only has 4 mansions instead of 5 mansions. Perhaps he has only a private helicopter and not a private jet. The only way the dogs get gravy is when it spills off of the master's table. Regardless, the master WILL get gravy.
Fuck you, I won'y do what you tell me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8de2W3rtZsA
sorry that ship already sailed. the computer chips in new auto systems have backdoors, which not only allow tracking, they allow someone else to control your vehicle. once we go to autodrive they'll have the steering wheel, not just the brake and accelerator. as for tracking they already have a license plate camera network in CA, when a kidnapper from SD drove his victim to ID, they followed him the entire way while he was in the state.
one additional function a black box gives them is the ability to determine who was at fault in an accident. (right now the police do a less than average job of this)
i suspect black boxes in autos will be like red light cameras, they will save lives, and people will hate them, and they will be disconnected, fought against, and finally banned until such time as the autodrive car is rolled out, the ObamaCAR, oh boy, can't believe i said that.
things have to change. the present carnage on our roads rivals the carnage from wars.
Forgot the /sarc tag there buddy
What they need to do is privatise all the public transport systems, allow the new owners to shut it all down and replace it with PRT.
Public transport which works and is higher performance than the car.
They do record data but upon the air bags or crash sensor going off the freeze frame data at the time of the incident is recorded. GPS phones or in car GPS systems do keep a log of where you wnet. It overwrites itself after a while though.
If you have a Garmin look for *.gpx files. These are the logs.
Bullish for Huffy
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Redraleighchopper.JPG
What else can I say? 73 years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIvaBOxHDj0&bpctr=1382980339
No where to run no where to hide. Privacy is dead! Everything is getting tracking devices in it including your driver's license, credit & bank cards, cell phones, even cash! And now your car.too!
Why is it so bad that the govt knows you drove to Walmart or your girlfriends house? They won't tell your wife.
Actually, if you've kept your eyes on the news regarding certain Generals...and Herman Cain...and etc., etc., etc...
Blackmail is a helluva drug.
Some of them are particularly interested in what time you left your girlfriend's house. The others are interested in what time you left your wife's house. But you're right. They won't tell.
Yeah, isn't all that 'Merican technology just The Bomb?
BTW, as I recall, it was the (fucking) Brits who first came out with the tech that reads license plates. They then promptly sold it to their 'Merican cousins.
Yes, an Israel is supplying a lot of this technology especially facial recogntion.
This is how the EU intends to pay for its Galileo GPS system
Next, it will be anal probes used to track you and an electronic implant at the back of your skull just to make it all complete.
Transmitted signals will either make you shit or go blind.
I think that is the problem, these gov types don't know whether to shit or go blind.
It's beer time.
If I were totally paranoid I might begin to believe that the flu shot the government has been so keen on having people take over the last decade or so actually contains tiny little microchips that monitor every single bodily function. They must only be capable of lasting a year since this had become a yearly shot. Of course that's crazy talk, or is it?
All you could do would be try and live totally off grid to avoid all of this taxation at the end of a gun. But then they will just come after you like they did in Waco and burn you up.
You see this is why we need cameras in the bathrooms. So we can monitor the heavy tp users and tax them to oblivion.
I'm in favour of these devices, in car cameras, and GPS tracking for other reasons.
Over 3 years here and you have learned exactly what ?
The big fucking zero from where I am sat
Well as Forrest Gump would have said
Muppet is as muppet does.
I want those devices to protect me from the govt. I've seen open carry videos. The cops don't fuck with those people.
It doesn't matter. You're completely fucked living in America and just about anywhere else in the world. Fifty years of bio engineered chemicals have turned most people into brainless zombies, spoon fed by the government.
Soon if you don't have a driving monitor installed in your car, you won't be able to get car insurance. Or you will but it will cost you $250 a month on top of your premium.
The Toyota unintended acceleration bullshit was the smokescreen to get legislation passed for these black boxes.
Then the fuckers decided that congestion charges and mileage taxes like England would be a great way to raise money for public pension payments.
You think for one second they will use one dime to pay for fixing roads?
HOW ABOUT YOU FIX THE ROADS OUT OF THE $1 TRILLION YOU SPEND ON FAT FUCK GHETTO MAMAS!!!!!
At this stage of the game, the roads will never be fixed. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to demand more money for fixing the roads.
Actually, this applies to everything, and has done so for a long time: If they fix it, they can't demand more money to fix it. So nothing will be fixed. Everything will be allowed to deteriorate, followed by demands for more money to "fix it".
I'll keep chuggin along in my 79 pickup!
As soon as this kind of device is mandated work arounds will be created
-Workaround 1
Wrap the box in aluminum foil to block the gps location services , if it can't locate you, it can't read how many miles you drove, and as such it will read zero
-Workaround 2
Combine workaround 1, with cutting the power to the device.
-Workaround 3
A hammer
The computer will store your miles driven and when you go to get your plates for the year, they'll download the mileage data and add it to your registration fee.
Just like very tax ever levied, they'll find a way to make you pay it until you kill yourself or them.
Meh just D/C the damn thing everytime you get in a car and at the end of the year during inspection time roll back the odometer.
Guarenteed the day this is implemented a dozen websites about hacking the thing will pop up.
If it has a rom in it, it can be altered.
The cars computer is garbage, no aspect of it is encrypted it will be a peice of cake to change the odometer on the car, especially on older cars.
This is just another reason to drive cars from the 60s..... no computers to rat you out.
Trust me, if the Tax is expensive enough per year, people will do everything in their power to dodge it, ill just keep frying my odometer and the black box with an emp zapper if I have to, the fuck I need to know the miles on my car for anyway? chances are if I go to sell it ill only get scrap value anyways since all new cars are pretty much made out of post consumer waste
I take the bus or taxi to DMV. And, at my age, I forget a lot of stuff: some of the 'important' stuff and all of the unimportant stuff. Especially the mileage on my car. I'd just claim some 'nominal' mileage.
The bigger concern is your hi-tech car dealer... who will store all the data + stats in their dBase. Which is accessible by DMV, no doubt.
If, like most families, you have more than one care, use the modern car for all the mundane trips. Also, learn to ride a bike or moped. Or use a train on occasion. But, most important of all... use your noggin.
Lol. Mike doesn't get it.
The car is done. Caput. Finished. Rising prices, falling quality, increasing costs, lower wages, fewer jobs. Suburbia - the justification for cars - was designed to ensure universal car ownership, which was itself predicated on gas at $0.50, rising wages, etc.
The Interstate System is doe as well. No amount of taxes can turn a bad idea into a good one.
Demand can no longer meet supply. Remember, gas consumption is falling. Call it price rationing or whatever you please, fewer and fewer people can afford to waste gasoline in their gas ICE cars. That's the future, the future is now. But this is a problem, as gas taxes are a major source of revenue for state and federal governments, plus the fees and charges for licensing, registration, etc., and the revenue from traffic tickets for local governments. You think theyre gonna voluntarily downsize? You think Joe6P is gonna voluntarily give up his car and suburbia for the slums of the big city?
Every single cent increase in marginal cost of production of oil removes a few more people from the roads. No one's gonna give a squirrel fart about vehicle black boxes when they can't afford the vehicle nor the gas to fuel it.
Govt should let the roads crumble so that only monster 4X4s can drive on them or the govt should sell the roads. iether way, I don't wantt to pay for roads.
Oh yes, as soon as the government sells the roads to private enterprise, suddenly a hundred new roads will spring up outside your house, offering to take you anywhere in the world and you just pay the cheapest toll for what you want, eg 4WD users won't mind a few potholes here and there and so will choose cheaper roads while Ferrari drivers will choose smoother, higher quality more expensive roads blah blah blah fwee markits bullshit bullshit and competition will keep the price of roads down ...
How about, FUCK YOU!!! A monopoly is a monopoly is a monopoly and govt or no govt, it is still a fucking monopoly.
Or, if I want to be more polite and informative, how about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIvaBOxHDj0&bpctr=1382980339
The Interstate Highway System was designed for tanks and planes, not cars. In fact, the original bill was only 10 pages long before CONgress got a hold of it. It will never be "done", it is a national security issue.
Even if there were no cars on the road, those highways WILL be used, at least in and around major cities.
True. And if you noticed all interstate and routes have increased the bridge heights over the last 10 years in order to accomodate larger military vehicles. The old bridges that don't meet the new spec have been prioritized for replacement.
Support your local Gestapo... or not.
When the shit hits the fan, the pigs will deny they ever worked in "law enforcement" and wigs and fake moustaches will suddenly be in big demand.
Yes, crooks jumped into the uniforms a long time ago.
Trains and planes are more fun than cars anyways. Disclosure: I have never been groped by TSA.
The train from outer Boston suburbs used to cost $5 each way. It now costs $20 each way. You can buy a monthly pass for $375, but you still need trasnporation to and from the train station.
If that was the least expensively it could be run I guess you would not be complaining. As it is run by the govt it is too costly. however, somebody has to pay for it. I'm in favour of getting rid of all govt transportation systems. i hate the bus. But I use the bus because somebody else pays the real costs. The 2 dollar fare is a joke.
The gas tax lets Teslas get a free ride. We need some way to tax electric and natural gas vehicles the same as gasoline and diesel users. The answer is the odometer.
Yes, if you're feeble-minded or uninformed. Case in point...
ROAD WEAR and ROAD DAMAGE are a function of the vehicle's gross weight and tire type. As such, TRUCKS cause far, Far, FAR more damage to roads than to cars. Your gas-miser hybrid or electric car is such a light-weight on the roads (literally and figuratively), that they contribute an insignificant amount to "road wear" and zero to damage".
The benefit to the environment and lessened dependence on Big Oil's "blood for oil" program should hardly be penalized with BS-surtaxes on hybrids or e-cars. If you want to save the roads, get rid of Studded Tires (still in some states), or tax them through the roof: If they want that "traction" for those icy 3-6 days/yr, have them fucking pay for the damage their studded tires cause the other 180 days/yr (winter season).
But let's not overlook the "800 lb gorilla" sitting in the corner of our arguments: It's more to do about PAVLOVIAN CONDITIONING of the peasants/sheeple ("Thou will cow-tow to Central Authority!") than anything else.
"A sugar-coated dog-turd is still a dog-turd. Even if it is sugar-coated."
Next half-baked "idea" you'd like to raise?
Specifically road wear /damage increases with 3rd or 4th power of the axle weight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_axle_weight_rating
Buses are by far the worst offenders within cities because most distribution points are outside the ciry boundaries, deliveries are broken down into smaller vehicles.
Hasn't the electricity been taxed already? The only thing they should now do is redirect part of that tax revenue to roads, bridges, etc. maintenance funding.
Nothing either a hammer, duct tape, or wd-40 can't fix.
Or, this could be necessary the more that people purchase hybrids and electric vehicles. Road usage is up, but fuel taxes are down. If you're going to let the state build and maintain your roads, you better have a fair way to pay for it. Gas taxes were fair and equitable and even effective when politicians left those funds alone and used them for roads. The more hybrids and electric vehicles on the road mean a less equitable distribution of paying for the roads, or as the lefties of the world like to say, "They're not paying their fair share!"
Did I forget to mention that your insurance company can refuse to pay a claim if the black box shows you were speeding when an accident occurred?
In a court it would depend on how over the limit you were, conditions, etc. It's not cut and dried. With cameras and black boxes, speed limits could be increased so that personal responsibility of driving for the conditions would be the only factor in accidents.
The EU has been using this for years. It started on trucks in Germany, they call it "road pricing".
The Galileo system is being launched to accomodate it because it needs a stronger signal to reliably locate vehicles, four validation satellites have been launched so far, i think the full fleet will be 30 satellites.
In any case, in the UK it will just be the money side of the current system, since ANPR can track vehicles around the country at the moment, with arounf 15 million "hits" every day of the week!
I suggest the purchase of an already available GPS jammer!
"The illegal use of Global Positioning System (GPS) jammers in the UK has been revealed in a groundbreaking study.
GPS jammers are believed to be mostly used by people driving vehicles fitted with tracking devices in order to mask their whereabouts.
In one location the Sentinel study recorded more than 60 GPS jamming incidents in six months"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17119768
Their use is quite high with truck drivers, since large amounts of trucks are fitted with vehicle trackers here.
I'm quite sure that these devices are ILLEGAL in the Land of The Free. And even if they are available, most will not use them in the Home of The Brave.
Maybe we should all just stop registering or licensing our automobiles with the control freak state apparatus, it'll stick them for billions. They can't cite us all if everyone just goddamn stops cooperating.
I would smash it and breaks it into little pieces, my precious
Big Brother is NOT coming to Big Brother's car.
They are already installing those devices in Canada under disguise of lowering your insurance premium based on your driving habits and where you drive. Not sure how many idiots have already signed up for it. They are not mandatory yet, but the day will come when they will be forcing young drivers to have an option of $250 a month with tracking device or $600 without the box to get insurance. While young drivers usually do not have enough money most will go for it. After they raise one "monitored" generation, they will make it mandatory to get insured and insurance is mandatory. No Constitution breaking here.
It's not that I am giving government any ideas...
Why the fuck not? Big brother is a Fascist suppository that only liberal faggots could love.
Government in the morning, government in the evening, government is the answer to everything....
The unelected control freak socialist dictatorship European Council have the Inteligent Transport System inintiative - EU Directive 2010/40/EU since 7 July 2010.
This puts a transceiver in every vehicle to provide information, communication, identification and verification.
Our heavily indebted governments can only collect badly needed revenue from people who have money, so any wacky wheeze to screw us is coming..
Have been riding a bike for the passed 5 years. One of the best ways to not be part of the system.
Land of the "Free" and all that.....
LOL
The tech doesn't scare me really, it's more who will use it that is unsettling.
F them! Disable it and enable it during EPA checking or service.
They want total control.
Another avenue (so to speak) of vehicle tracking will be when vehicles are equipped with technology to allow road trains, or automated following. Those who implement this interesting improvement will just not be able to help themselves. They will give each vehicle transponder a unique "MAC address" when they could protect privacy by just generating a random number every time the vehicle is started.
Don't tell Krieger, but that technology has been in the cars for many years. The reality is that the present technology is way beyond the imaginations of most of these commenters. Need I say Microphones, with Cell connections?
If you have On-Star you are tracked. If you have a satelite navigation system you are tracked. Almost all cars and trucks produced after 2000 are tracked whether you know it or not.
I would rip that out on day one!
Right. Tracking, data mining, contact verification, ownership transfer and billing brought to you by the same pile of monkey fucking bureaucrats that just recently unvieled their fabulous 404 Healthcare site. And we all know how swimmingly that went.
Let's get back to reality here. These fuckers sit around and think up all these grand ideas, talk about them in endless meetings and theorize it all out the wazoo. Wake me up when the implementation rolls out and doesn't fall flat on it's face. I'm betting that I meet counselor Troi and Dr. Crusher in holodeck 3 first...
The Obama auto. Tax at every mile, added to your other taxes. Still hear of carbon credits.
yeah, i hear about bitcoins and Chris Christie losing weight and contrails and eskimos and flouride and voting too.
All fairy tales.
Nothing can stop the crash. It's gravity assist all the way down. If this new tax on the backs of the productive helps the crash along, then I'm all for it. The sooner, the better.
I've felt that Big Obama Brother was monitoring me for the past few years. Just ask Angela Merkel how that feels!
Unless I missed/overlooked it, no one mentioned that TV ads by insurance companies now promote these gizmos -- as a way to "Save" on insurance, by logging and transmitting your "Safe Driving Habits".
This a False Flag argument for the dumb, gullible and the malleable. It's a total red herring argument for the Sheeple: I fail to see how the odious amounts of stats and data over many decades prevents them for giving you decent rates, that is based on your driving record.
Do you have Progressive insurance? Do you have their little "safe driving" device? Then you're already there.
First, I thought the 800 billion that we the people were told we had to accept during the 2007 crisis, the Hank Paulson Bazooka had "shovel ready" jobs earmarked. We were told that a fair portion would go to upgrade the crumbling infrastructure, roads and bridges all across the country. Apparently the only portion of that 800 billion went to the sign maker touting the work "American Recovery Act" produced. What the hell happened with all that money? It's not the only time the taxpayer has been told that we have to pony up for infrastructure. Then the aformentioned gas tax plus the amount of money taken from the numerous tolls across the country. How many times are we the people going to fall for the "infrastructure" excuse only to see it never happen.
Odd how long it took the car companies to upgrade from safety belt to air bag. A few decades that I remember because they couldn't justify the cost. Yet this they just throw this right in? I'll be damned if I buy a vehicle in which I pay a sales tax, a yearly property tax then tags every year as well as be forced to pay for a black box to where I have to be monitored for my own safety.
When I buy anything, I own it and I can do any damned thing to it that I want and that would also extend to any black box in a car. If I pay for it then I have every right to beat the shit out of it or take it off as it would serve no pupose to the safety funtioning of the vehicle. If you want me to put some shit like that in my car then you have to pay ME to accept it and not in the form of those useless fucking tax credits or vouchers. People should be getting tired of paying for something and being told it cost less because of some credit they may get at tax time. If it's a financial burden then it's a burden in the moment and most people can't afford to wait for the government to allow them to offset it against their income a year later. This is total fucking bullshit and it needs to stop now.
GM, Chrysler etc... you took our money to stay afloat and avoid bankruptcy, contrary to popular belief that the government gave you the money. The money came from your customers and in many cases from people that don't even buy your products but you will cave to the governments will because you mistakenly think that THEY kept you afloat. Your allegiance needs to be with the people that actually fund the govenrment as well as potentially purchases your products. Fuck you very much if you just throw that shit in your new vehicles as I know I won't be buying shit from any auto company that puts this thing in their vehicles.
This notion of charging motorist more money based on the amount of miles they drive is ludicrous. Those motorist are actually doing more business with small businsesses than the people that stay home. So the government is also out to fuck those small businesses they pay so much lip service to as being so important to job creation.
It's about time every dime this country collects from the people is itemized and followed. The government is insisting if follow every dime the people make, it's high time that the people are afforded the aiblity to follow every dime the government takes from the people and then justify how it spends every penny. Each department should have their budgets online for us to see and how they matchup to the actual spend and any variance be explained. Every department of every company has to do that in order to justify next years budget and see where money can be saved. The shell game our government plays with tax dollars is unacceptable and it high time we hold them accountable for the way they spend the money we are forced to give them and to make damned sure they aren't stealing, spuandering or otherwise pissing away all of our hard earned money. After all it actually comes from we the people to start with and we have every right to know how our tax dollars are spent in detail. The government expects nothing less from us so why do we act as if it's ok for them to live by a different set of rules. The government should be embarrassed to have to burden the people with more taxes, not embolden and empowered to bully and shame the people for not wanting to accept more taxing.
Finally this bullshit that government officials state that "they serve at the pleasure of the president" needs to stop. In fact the president and every other government employee needs to understand that they actually "serve at the pleasure of the american people". Perhaps that change in ideology would help these folks focus on who actually pays their salary and their job is actually to provide service to the people, not some other government official.
Big Brother is IN your car if you have onStar. And, just pulling the fuse does NOT disconnect them - only you.
.
Goddammit, I wish there was a way to just unfuck myself from my goddamn Social Security Number.
fuck it man, you don't like the one you got? Get a new one.
Get several. Ones with good shit like Social Security, EBT, medicade payments coming to them.
If the freakin illegals can do it then we can too. SI SI PUEDE.
Here is what it all boils down to: They're gonna tax you for MOVING AROUND for Crissakes! If you go somewhere, you're gonna get taxed for it. The farther you go, the more you pay.
Third-world shitholes are looking better and better.
http://rt.com/usa/darpa-pentagon-reading-brain-860/
Let's all start calling it ObamaCar and no one will support it.
The problem is the Republicans like Mccain and Graham will be all for it.
Morons.
I can think of at least 3 co-workers who drive a Nissan Leaf. This car is electric. It doesn't run on gas. Therefore, these people are not buying gasoline, and are driving on roads they don't pay any taxes for. If this trend continues, more and more "rich" people will be driving electric cars and not contributing to road taxes, while "poor" people will be driving gas guzzlers and will be financing our roads with their gas taxes. Installing a black box in everything probably isn't the best way to fix this. But, there does need to be some equitable way to pay for our road system, if more electric and other non-gasoline cars are going to be driven in this country.