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As Obama Asks If He "Should Be Worried" About Bitcoin, ATMs Arrive In 5 Canadian Cities

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The world's first Bitcoin ATM will be ready for use this week at a coffee shop in Vancouver, Canada. Created by Las Vegas based Robocoin, the new ATM in Vancouver will allow users to turn bitcoins directly into Canadian dollars, or turn Canadian dollars into bitcoins. As The Telegraph reports, the ATM first scans the user's palm to ensure security and transfers are limited to CAD$3,000 per day. Until now, the currency existed only on the web but the introduction of these ATMs brings bitcoin-as-cash usage closer.

 

The Bitcoin ATM Promo...

 

The Bitcoin ATM in action...

 

Via CBC,

Bitcoiniacs says it has ordered five Bitcoin kiosks from a Las Vegas-based company called RoboCoin... and will be rolled out starting this week in Vancouver...

 

Four more kiosks will arrive in December and although their locations are not yet certain, Bitcoiniacs says it's eyeing major Canadian cities such as Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa

 

"Basically, it just make it easier for people to buy and sell Bitcoins and hopefully will drive the adoption of Bitcoin, and make it more accessible for people," says Mitchell Demeter, the 27-year-old owner of Bitcoiniacs.

 

...

 

Currently, acquiring Bitcoins is often done through an exchange, an arduous process that requires users to jump through several hoops, including linking their bank account to the exchange and sending in paperwork to verify their identity.

 

...

 

The RoboCoin kiosks are expected to make the process of buying and selling Bitcoins much easier says Jordan Kelley, the company's chief executive.

 

"Our goal is to make Bitcoin truly grandma-friendly," says Kelley.

 

...

 

Using a kiosk means you don't have to wait to verify your account on an exchange or hand cash to a stranger, says Kelley. It also makes Bitcoins more accessible to people by adding an element of legitimacy and increases liquidity in the market.

 

...

 

RoboCoin plans to ship out 10 to 15 kiosks to customers before the end of the year. The first one will go to Bitcoiniacs, says Kelley.

 

Demeter says many Bitcoin startups are gravitating to Canada because the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada — also known as FINTRAC — aren't as strict as regulators in the U.S.

 

"It's a lot more open up here, that's for sure," says Demeter.

 

Those last two paragraphs/comments are especially notable in light of President Obama asking Eric Schmidt if "Bitcoin is anything he has to worry about?"

 

Via Mike Krieger of Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

Here’s a story recently related to me by a guest at a White House dinner, which included Google’s Eric Schmidt: The president, whose most important job is surely to protect the integrity of the monetary system, smugly asked Schmidt if Bitcoin, one of many growing challenges to currency hegemony, was anything he had to worry about.

 

- From a USA Today article titled: How CEOs are Clueless About Technology

If the above is accurate (and I have no reason to suspect it isn’t), it is priceless information on so many levels. First of all, rather than ask about Bitcoin in an inquisitive manner free of prejudice as a enlightened leader surely would, Obama is merely primatively wondering if he needs to “worry about it.”

Actually Barry, if you had any sense and foresight whatsoever you would be looking at it as a great opportunity. An opportunity for the nation to lead the way in growing the Bitcoin economy and shed the archaic, feudalistic monetary system we are currently enslaved under. However, since you work directly for the oligarch money manipulators themselevs, you are clearly and disastrously unable to see things in a more productive and beneficial way.

Second, as I highlighted earlier this year, Eric Schmidt had no clue what Bitcoin was when Julian Assange first mentioned it to him in a lengthy interview in 2011. The initial exchange went as follows:

Assange: On the publishing end, the magnet links and so on are starting to come up. There’s also a very nice little paper that I’ve seen in relation to Bitcoin, that… you know about Bitcoin?

 

Schmidt: No.

 

Assange: Okay, Bitcoin is something that evolved out of the cypherpunks a couple of years ago, and it is an alternative… it is a stateless currency.

So Obama is asking Schmidt for his advice about Bitcoin, when Schmidt had no idea what it was two years after it had been created and released into the wild. One bureaucratic control-freak asking another for advice. What could possibly go wrong?

More from the USA Today article:

The president surely believes his important expertise is in matters of policy, law and political machinations. But he is, too, the chief executive of the U.S. government, with its increasing dependence on digital performance. And, in that area, he seems a near-illiterate, or at least a big boob.

 

An older establishment that still regards technology as a back-office function, or infrastructure issue, or buyable skill set, vs. an emerging native digital establishment that sees technology as an end in itself, serving a customer base with ever-higher technology expectations and standards.

 

It is certainly a pertinent question: If the government can’t run an e-commerce website, how in the world can it process all the data that they are supposedly sweeping up to spy on outlaws and citizens?

 

Non-tech people, no matter their good intentions, can’t do tech, at least never as well as tech people do it. This is something ever-more evident to people steeped in daily digital life, as most Americans are. It is less clear to CEOs, many of whom are somehow still uncertain in their digital habits and reflexes.

Let’s just hope these clowns don’t grasp Bitcoin until it’s already way too late…which fortunately it may already be.

 

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Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:27 | 4099840 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Do you hear that Mr. Obama? That is the sound of inevitability.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:28 | 4099850 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

Jay Carney just said the President was completely unaware.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:31 | 4099862 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Pretty sure we could have guessed that without Jay's help.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:38 | 4099889 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

O is tormented as on the one hand, bitcoin is trendy, cool, and on the other hand it causes problems for the elites that he serves.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:29 | 4100042 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Don't judge too harshly, he's just a dopey little ass napkin.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 05:13 | 4100570 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Obama better learn quickly about Bitcoin before he starts receiving his salary in them. Although, being a dead-duck 2nd-termer he might be receiving wheel-barrows of hyperinflated ben-bucks in shrink-wrapped bricks around the time his diastrous term expires in a whimper.


Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:32 | 4100048 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I typically refrain from commenting on bitcoin, but I sometimes simply can't resist.

I am not saying that bitcoin is or is not a legitimately constructive alternative to government issued fiat, but I don't see how even its fiercest supporters can prove that it, in and of itself, has inherent, real value.

There's an even more basic issue with bitcoin that the wise men speak of; if one doesn't or can't understand an asset class completely, one should steer clear of it, no matter the potential profit, due to the potential loss.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:52 | 4100114 prains
prains's picture

it is THE digital Ponzi

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:35 | 4100224 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

Bitcoin has a good place as a use for temporary transactions.  Say you want to move some moeny from your Bahamas account to your account in Cayman Islands but don't want that traced.

It's not a savings account.

Tastes great. Less filling. It's a candy mint. No. It's a breath mint.  :)

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:48 | 4100261 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Satoshi is taking heads!

You thought Bitcoin was done when it retraced from $230?  Just give it five years!

Bitcoin is the currency of the resistance!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:35 | 4100358 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

How do you trade when the electricity goes out?

 

Stack On

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:02 | 4100395 fonestar
fonestar's picture

So does the php, C#, perl, java, etc, etc disappear from your computer when the power goes out in your area as well?  Non-volatile memory is a wonderful thing.

And for you dummies that think that the world that revolves around the United States, newsflash: it does not.  Ie, no... the power is not going out all around planet Earth for ff^uf;s sake....

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:29 | 4100419 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

You mistake the power of our star. Around which my world revolves.

Stack On

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:36 | 4100426 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Basing your investing on solar happenings? 

Timelines that could make Kondratiev blush.....

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:50 | 4100435 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Yup. Won't grow any more grass for the next six months. Sun is too close to the horizon.

But I got enough stored for the next 18 months. So I know I'll have a full belly for the next 2 years. How about you? Got enough of those bitcoin to last?

 

Stacking isn't only Au,Ag,Pb

 

Stack On

 

My thinking may be a few waves back... Thanks for the learning tonight.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 03:06 | 4100494 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

How do you withdraw US Dollar Bills from an ATM if the power goes out? It's exactly the same thing - just with different representations. The US Dollar is a digital currency backed by an army, Bitcoin is a digital currency backed by a distributed network that can only generate a finite amount, thus ensuring scarcity and an increase in price when it becomes more desirable (sort of like Gold).

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 04:48 | 4100549 limit_less
limit_less's picture

if its truly finite, there is no problem. If there is a back door which no one has noticed that allows infinite creation then we are signing our own death warrant getting involved. I think a back door is possible

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 05:40 | 4100596 wintermute
wintermute's picture

This is the brilliance of it. There is a blockchain which has all historic transactions. If you own 20 bitcoins then it is in the blockchain. There are probaby 3 million copies of the blockchain scattered in computers all over the planet. All of them say your private key has the 20 bitcoins. Anyone who "back-doors" their blockchain to say they have 20000 will find their transactions rejected by everyone else.

If you have $20k in your bank account then it is only in the computer system of one bank! They might keep a few dozen copies of your holding, but those could be "back-doored" to give you a $0 balance - any time.

Meanwhile the Fed has the back-door of the printing shed open slowly depreciating your $20k until one day it buys a sandwich and a bus ticket to the poorhouse.



Tue, 10/29/2013 - 10:59 | 4101362 Saro
Saro's picture

Bitcoin is not a program; it cannot be "backdoored".

Bitcoin is a protocol that lets people talk about transactions in a public ledger.   It would be incredibly trivial to write a program to send a fraudulent transaction into the network, but since the ledger is open, everyone would know it was a fake and disregard it immediately.

Fraudster: "I'm transferring a hojillion bitcoins from ABC account to XYZ account!"
Everyone Else In the World: "ABC account doesn't have a hojillion bitcoins to transfer. /ignore"

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:07 | 4103379 unununium
unununium's picture

> I think a back door is possible

Dear limit_less.  Yours is the worry of an intelligent person who is not sufficiently technical to judge the answer for themselves.

What's unusual about this moment in history is those who can judge for themselves are in a position to make lots of dough.  By that I mean acquire real dough before others realize what it is.

If you're waiting for the media or your financial advisor to give you the green light, you will be too late.  Your best hope is to learn all you can and judge for yourself.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:41 | 4100218 BTFDemocracy
BTFDemocracy's picture

Bitcoin follows 'laws of thermodynamics', just like gold; there's a financial cost attached in attaining each Bitcoin.

To get Bitcoin you need to mine it, as the difficulty increases in breaking the encryption that acquires each Bitcoin, so does the infrastructure cost and electricity cost. If today it costs $150 in electricity and + $10 per coin in infrastructure cost, no one will be mining Bitcoin if coin price is $60. Just like no one will mine Gold to lose money.
An ounce of gold or a line of code has no difference if the cost of attaining either one is equal. Both Gold's and Bitcoin's value comes from the utility of using them as a currency or store of value.

Throughout most of history people had little industrial use of gold, it was valued for its scarcity. We are born into the belief that gold is valuable. Bitcoin has only been around for 3-4 years. Our kids will beg to differ in the inherent value of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin's competitive advantage comes from the fact it is the first borderless & decentralized currency, --instantly transferrable to anywhere in the world-- a property gold does not have.

Once you look at how to get a Bitcoin bypassing the usual exchanges, and end up at subjects like stealing or mining, the effort involved there is so big it resembles mining gold. Most of the bitcoin miners can't claim they made any big profits, just like in gold mining, most small-scalers lose money and the real winners are the suppliers of infrastructure (electricity and CPU power).

Comparing ounce of gold to Bitcoin:
There's approx 5.8 billion ounces of gold ever mined, compared to Bitcoin's total of 21 million coins possible. ~270:1 ratio. So if Bitcoin ever becomes as 'traded' as gold, each BTC = $300K relative to today's oz gold price.

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:15 | 4100322 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Bitcoin has been money for 42,000 hours while gold has been money for only 5,000 years. Since 42,000 > 5,000, well...you know.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:25 | 4100335 Haole
Haole's picture

...and Bitcoin has returned thousands of percent more real, bona fide purchasing power to holders in that short time than gold has in 5000 years but you're so caught-up in your brainwashed, echo-chamber, gold bitchez ideology to even realize that, aren't you?  

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:08 | 4100402 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Please provide the analysis of your assertion.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:13 | 4100408 Haole
Haole's picture

Please yank your head out of your fundament, go look at some prices over the timeline and do some rudimentary math for yourself.  Do you want me to go to the bathroom for you too?  

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:18 | 4100413 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Yes please. And flush twice. The wife hates surprises.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:31 | 4100712 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Now, now you two. Let's settle down.

Over.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 10:10 | 4101156 superflex
superflex's picture

He cant, thus, the personal attack.

Alinsky at it's finest.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:16 | 4100409 BTFDemocracy
BTFDemocracy's picture

I agree my Bitcoin vs Gold ounce wasn't very good comparsion, should have compared Market Cap.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 03:09 | 4100496 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Gold has been money for 42,000 hours while [insert currency used before Gold was mined in large enough quantities] has been around for only 1,000 years.

Just because something hasn't been around for as long as something else doesn't mean it's not worthy of consideration. If that were the case, people would still trade chickens or wheat for whatever else they need, rather than Gold, Silver or fiat currency. The argument is flawed.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 10:11 | 4101158 digitalhermit
digitalhermit's picture

New is BAD! Napster BAD! Bitcoin BAD!

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mtvlUDn6iE

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 13:49 | 4102098 applelover
applelover's picture

letters and the post office have been around for hundreds of years and email has been around for a dozen years,  i agree

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 14:22 | 4102253 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Carrier pigeons have been used for 5,000 years and e-mail has been around for 30 years. You saying carrier pigeons > e-mail?

IQ of brine shrimp > IQ of SilverIsKing ?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:09 | 4100312 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Bitcoin or other cyber-currencies are beyond the CPU power of most Bubbas. And that's ok and forgivable.

What's not ok and not so forgivable, is that these same Bubbas haven't figured out that it is (a) a competing currency to Central Bankster currencies, and (b) an enemy of fiat (as is gold) but not an enemy of gold.

Clearly either their brains or their souls are too small to cheer for the enemy of their enemy. And then these Bubbas wonder why they keep getting reamed. Sheesh! Give me strength!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:52 | 4100386 Haole
Haole's picture

ZH bares the distinction of having some of the most clueless and ignorantly vocal Bubbas on the internet with regards to BTC to the point of making the place smell like stale urine in a parkade stairwell when Bitcoin threads are posted.  Pathetic really given recent history.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:16 | 4100412 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I have no issue with Bitcoin just as I have no issue with barter. If people want to use them for trade, more power to them. Ultimately, those who control fiat will stop at nothing to kill it, even if it means coming to your home and lighting your computer on fire. When this becomes big enough, and I do think it will, it will be made illegal and the ISPs will be monitoring every keystroke to find those who are dealing in Bitcoin. Anyone who doesn't think .gov would go to such lengths hasn't been paying attention.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:12 | 4100629 malikai
malikai's picture

ISPs monitoring keystrokes..

Not to nitpick, but if you want to make a point, it should at least be intelligent.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:39 | 4100721 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

You do realize that keystrokes and clicks are serialized and bundled into packets which are then sent through your ISP to their destination. Yes? Not to nitpic...

Over.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:44 | 4100890 Abaco
Abaco's picture

What are you smoking?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 09:36 | 4101030 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Loud bro.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:21 | 4100694 ebear
ebear's picture

If it works, it will be adopted.  If not, it won't.  A sound currency needs no promotion.  A sound currency sells itself.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:46 | 4100730 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

True. I thought most here were anti-globalization, anti-One World/NWO/ one world gov /one world currency?

What am I missing? Is the bitcorn the seed for the NWO currency that is 100% digital?

Give me your palm print/finger print/ DNA to convert it to juice confetti. FUCK YOU!

Over.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 05:48 | 4104004 ebear
ebear's picture

"Is the bitcorn the seed for the NWO currency that is 100% digital?"

I doubt you'll ever see a one world currency for the simple reason that there's no way to arbitrage it.  The most profitable market in the world today is the FX market.  Do you really think the banks are going to give that up?  

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 02:29 | 4100469 Mobius Poop
Mobius Poop's picture

The unhackable cryptography has value.

The extremely fast borderless transfer times have value.

The bank-beating low fees have value.

The flexibility of the open source protocol has value.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 02:42 | 4100478 compound interest
compound interest's picture

".. I don't see how even its fiercest supporters can prove that it, in and of itself, has inherent, real value. .."

People just want to hold it. That's it. Even Gold does not have any more value than that.

Don't forget: there's no such thing as "intrinsic value". That's just a misleading expression suggesting that there are "objective" values in nature. Any value only exists in the human mind, even if we talk about real physical assets.

Bitcoin has proven to be a more successful currency in its very short lifetime than any fiat currency, it achieved more than them: the use of fiat currencies are forced by governments, but BTC is just wanted, not forced. Every country in the world right now uses and issues fiat currencies, and bans any money printing (if not done by the government-appointed banksters). You don't have a choice to use or not use fiat currencies: you must use it, period. Even if you know that it is abused, and you are robbed.

Bitcoin is a choice of a currency. It may be a bubble, may be the next tulip mania (I don't think so, but who knows), but it achieved a status that people now think it is money. It came from nothing, you can't do anything if you lose your bitcoins, you can't rely on a company or an authority, you can't sue anyone if your bitcoins lose their value overnight: still, people want to get it.

One can argue that it is a new tulip mania; I can accept the possibility of that. But it is SURE it is NOT a Ponzi scheme. You always know how your holdings compare to the whole existing stock; you also know how your own holdings compare to the future pool of bitcoins, because it is limited how many bitcoins can be created. You don't know how volatile it will be and what price swings it will make, but you always can be sure of how many %s of the whole big mass of bitcoins you have. If you use a fiat currency, you can't even have a clue, you cannot even have an approximate estimation on how many %s you hold of the whole stock of that particular fiat, because there is no reliable data available; and it is printed endlessly also. EVERY fiat is a Ponzi.

One more thing: if you don't look at BTC as a trendy way to "rebel" against the central banks and the corrupted global fiat system (although it is really a good hedge against central banksters' insanity), but you look at it as a very effective, way more cheap and more simple payment method than any other existing payment system; if you look at its benefits as a technology, then one must accept the fact that the world truly needs something like bitcoins. Secure payment, independent from any banking system or fiat manipulations. I'm not saying that banks should die off completely; I'm just saying that the banking system needs a reset, just like mp3s and torrent downloads transformated the business model of the music industry. What happened to the music industry? Technology made the copying and distributing of music very-very simple and way more cheap than it was. So cheap that the old business model just collapsed, but music industry did not die out, the business model became more complex, and healthier overall. There will be banks in the future, too; but you also need some cash-type of money in the internet, money you can use without banks, without 3rd party verification.

The solving of the "double-spending" problem without a centralized 3rd party verification, this whole peer-2-peer, redundant, distributed, transparent, open-source concept has a potential to be used for purposes other, and much more, than reforming the whole global monetary system. Think of voting. Think of stock trading! Bit-shares. What would it be like to trade shares without an exchange? More coming..

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:05 | 4100622 wintermute
wintermute's picture

"People just want to hold it. That's it."

You can use a metal punch to stamp the letters and numbers of your bitcoin private key into a bar of gold and keep that safe in your stash for years until the btc is needed.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:44 | 4100728 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Thank you. That was beautiful,  bookmarked it.  If this were reddit I'd tip you some bitcoin.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:49 | 4100741 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Go bitcorn, rah rah rah sis boom bah! Yeeeea Team!!

Over.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 12:26 | 4119481 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

Your useage of over is SO over...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 10:54 | 4101336 Saro
Saro's picture

"I don't see how even its fiercest supporters can prove that it, in and of itself, has inherent, real value."

As a "fierce" bitcoin supporter, I concur, but only because nothing has inherent value. 

"There's an even more basic issue with bitcoin that the wise men speak of; if one doesn't or can't understand an asset class completely, one should steer clear of it, no matter the potential profit, due to the potential loss."

I also concur with this.  If you don't understand bitcoin, steer clear of it until you educate yourself.  As a kindness, however, please also refrain from making disparaging remarks about it and those who have taken the time to understand it. 

"I don't understand it, therefore I won't invest" is a sensible statement.
"I don't understand it, therefore it's a scam for losers and dupes" is not a sensible statement.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 01:36 | 4100427 akak
akak's picture

'

O is tormented as on the one hand, bitcoin is trendy, cool, and on the other hand it causes problems for the elites that he serves.

You are forgetting the most cogent reason why O is inclined to like Bitcoins --- because they have no verifiable birth certificates.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:12 | 4099998 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture

The president might be very aware.

Bitcoin as a law enforcement/natsec honeypot: what is the evidence?

http://ianso.blogspot.ca/2013/10/bitcoin-as-law-enforcementnatsec.html

 

Trust nothing...

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 05:49 | 4100611 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Yep. Something don't smell right. ATMs ain't guerrilla.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:50 | 4100744 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Thank you.

Over.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 12:50 | 4119540 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

The article at that link is good enough for me to remain skeptical of BTC. Not to mention biometrics being used to transact the currency.

Thanks.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:29 | 4099854 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

Inevitability, singularity....as if Zero could comprehend that...

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:34 | 4099876 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Put the word 'government' in front of it, and he can.  Try this on for size: "Government Singularity" or "Government Inevitability".  Yep, pretty sure he'd understand that just fine.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 04:49 | 4100551 limit_less
limit_less's picture

finger print scanning defeats the WHOLE point of bit coin.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:06 | 4100623 wintermute
wintermute's picture

The palm-scanning is just to prevent people buying or selling more than $3000 per day (which could be deemed as money laundering).

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:52 | 4100749 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

FUCK you with your biometric fuckery! I will not obey!

Over.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:25 | 4099841 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

Bitcoins, bitchez!

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:47 | 4099919 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

If you don't hold it you don't own it! Oh-oh...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:26 | 4100242 Haole
Haole's picture

If you control your private keys with a strong passphrase/brainwallet you don't even have to hold it to own it.  Oh-oh...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:41 | 4100371 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

So, according to YOUR logic, since you don't "hold" the electronic currency in your bank account, you don't own it. And you can't rely on your smartphone being secure against a hack into your account - where, presumably, you keep a lot more currency than in BTC.

Logic can be a cruel, two-edged mistress, alas.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:35 | 4100868 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

actually this is correct, but for a different reason: the "money" in your bank account? you lent it to the bank. the bank statement just shows how much the bank owes you

I repeat: you are neither in possession of the money you put in a bank nor are you the owner

you are a creditor* of the bank, and the bank is your debtor. yet the bank is both the possessor and the owner of that money, in the same way as if you had given it to me or someone else

we are in a financial crisis since years, coupled with a sizzling monetary war, and I find this should belong to basic knowledge of everybody

----

* ok, a privileged and insured creditor, in most countries, yet there are big differences

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:26 | 4099843 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Palmscan? No thanks.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:30 | 4099858 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

No shit. No better way to get the politicians behind it than that, eh.........?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:44 | 4099890 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Where is the security camera on that ATM? Might as well have a face with that palm scan. Then all it takes is a facial recognition cross reference with DMV photos and they then have a name to go with that bitcoin account.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:06 | 4099977 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

It's all higly secured and anonymous... we just need the palm to secure the anonymity.  Promise, we won't look.  We just need to be sure you're a human, with a palm. Oh you notice the security cameras? Don't worry, those are just there to make sure you don't use your palm to do anything else while you're in here.   o.O

Move along, nothing to see here.

Doh !  O.O

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:27 | 4100766 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Point being, the high resolution micro cameras are not noticeable.

It's a trap, the whole fucking thing is a trap. I'll keep my metal thank you very much.

The Internet is the equivalent of the 'Party Line'. It was designed to be a party line on steroids. And it will remain a party line on steroids. Try steering it in another direction and you are going to get spanked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_line_%28telephony%29

http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2010/01/early_telephone_operator_...

Over.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:31 | 4099861 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

TPTB will see to it that these fail.

Either by hook or by crook.

They will not be allowed to succeed.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:48 | 4099914 CH1
CH1's picture

TPTB? You still run your life based upon their huffing and puffing?

Condolences.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 02:32 | 4100471 Mobius Poop
Mobius Poop's picture

If we didnt, there wouldnt be a need to buy all that prepping gear, would there?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:43 | 4100077 Haole
Haole's picture

Funny, we were seeing the same sentiments a year ago before many fortunes had been made, thousands of percentage point gains in holder's purchasing power were realized, global adoption and "infrastructure" had propagated to the point it has.

Still waiting for the imminent global EMP, the alphabet agencies to hack everyone's wallet encryption and private keys and the internet to shut down... /s

Oh, and thanks for another good Bitcoin post on ZH Tylers.

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 02:01 | 4100446 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

What's to stop the Fed from buying up all of the bitcoins in the open market at whatever price they have to pay. The 21 million bitcoins even at $1,000 per BC is chump change. Once they own it all, wouldn't it be kaput? It would be good for those who currently hold them in terms of their USD gain but couldn't they put Bitcoin to bed once and for all by buying all or most of it up?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 02:37 | 4100474 Mobius Poop
Mobius Poop's picture

The market/network wouldnt allow that to happen. If anything, it would make the remainder of the bitcoins more vaulable and give bitcoin legitimacy at the same time. Even if they dropped those holdings in an attempt to crash the price, people would scramble to buy them up very fast indeed.

A lot of these issues are discussed on the Lets Talk Bitcoin! podcast, where experts in distributed systems and free market analysts come together to discuss these seemingly complex topics in understandable and entertaining terms. Well worth a visit.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 03:29 | 4100507 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Not all the coins have been mined yet, so the Fed would need to start mining, if it hasn't already, but the more power that comes online, the harder it is to solve the hashes to actually create a fraction of a coin. The more bitcoins that are generates, the fewer that will be generated over a longer time (exponentially decreasing the ability to increase the supply).

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 14:56 | 4102386 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

What's to stop the Fed from doing the same to gold/silver?

I already put my price point at 5 million per BTC. You want to make me wealthier (in $) than Bill Gates? Be my guest!

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:33 | 4099873 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Grandma friendly or Big Brother friendly?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:10 | 4099992 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

Same thing. Didn't they tell you, Grandma is part of the Continuity of Government coterie... she's also a snitch, I mean good citizen, so she is big brother. ;-)

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:35 | 4099878 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Soon to be upgraded to anal probe...

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:58 | 4099949 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Paid for by Obamacare.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:48 | 4100260 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Yeah but at least my deductible tripled for the pleasure.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:11 | 4099997 Ranger4564
Ranger4564's picture

I'm sorry, IS THAT A PREEXISTING CONDITION?!?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:20 | 4100013 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Assume the position to start your transaction.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:09 | 4100163 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

"Here, put this one in your mouth and stick that one up your ass."

...

"No, wait..."

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:14 | 4100631 malikai
malikai's picture

Yea I thought that was kinda creepy too.

Not sure I'd ever have anything to do with these ATMs on that basis alone.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:25 | 4099845 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yeah, that's where the whole police state homeland security NSA controlled for the children thing becomes a problem for bitcoin.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:27 | 4099847 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

This just in! DHS warns against using "terror coin" ATMs. Only slave FRNs are money!

"Sir! Drop the bitcoins! SIR! Don't make me shoot you!"

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:27 | 4099849 djsmps
djsmps's picture

I may be naive, but right now, I'm not buying into something that is based on an encryption algorithm that could be compromised. Besides, I don't have the discretionary cash to do so.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:02 | 4100298 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Imagine every dollar you hold must be verified by every person who owned that dollar before you. That is what happens with every bitcoin transaction.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:17 | 4100325 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

In that case you probably also don't have spare cash for silver, by the sounds of it. Condolences.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 03:30 | 4100510 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

The creation of dollars is based on nothing more than Ben and Janet pressing Print. That sounds better than BitCoin to you?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:08 | 4100790 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Early adopters will get slaughtered. I will NOT be your guinea pig unless proper compensation is negotiated(in gold plz).

Over.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:01 | 4102408 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Hmmm, I've been averaging my 1oz Au maple purchases for about $195 this year, due to Bitcoin rising.

Pro tip: you can have both.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:29 | 4099853 Teddy Tenpole
Teddy Tenpole's picture

 

 

Only in Canada, eh?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:34 | 4100361 fasTTcar
fasTTcar's picture

Pity.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:30 | 4099857 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

If I find out that BitCoin is actually an advance man for the CIA or NWO take-over, I'm going to be more than slightly miffed that I participated.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:35 | 4099880 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

If it wasn't on their radar before, you know it is now. It wil be exploited in one way or another.

The problem I see with bitcoin, is that you cannot hide it in your ass if the needed arises. If it ain't physical, it ain't money.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:58 | 4099935 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

That's funny.  I'm not your down-arrow, but you CAN shove bitcoins up your ass if the need arises.  They are nothing but a string of 33 alpha-numeric charaterns that could be written down, of if you trust your brain, memorized.  I yanked this off Wikipedia real quick because I couldn't find the really good write-up handy I really wanted to post up:

Paper wallets and "physical" bitcoins

Any valid bitcoin address keys may be printed on paper and used to store bitcoins offline. Compared with "hot wallets" (wallets that are connected to the Internet) these non-digital offline paper wallets are considered a "cold storage" mechanism better suited for safekeeping bitcoins.[20] Douglas Feigelson of BitBills filed a patent application “Creating And Using Digital Currency” with the United States Patent and Trademark Office on December 23, 2011.[21]

Various vendors offer banknotes, coins and cards denominated in bitcoins. Unlike government issued currency or precious bullion, the bitcoin value of these instruments is not integral to the banknote or coin itself. Instead, the bitcoin balance is bound to the private key printed on the banknote or embedded within the coin

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:10 | 4100166 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Can it be hacked?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:05 | 4100301 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Can your brain be hacked?

Research: brainwallet

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 03:04 | 4100482 waddlington
waddlington's picture

Most likely no, but that's not a question that can be answered *definitively* in the negative because there's always the possibility that the NSA or some other secret org has pushed further than the rest of the world in the appropriate realm of mathematics and possesses a way to crack the encryption.  That said, it's also possible that there's an alchemical device hidden deep in the technological depths of DARPA as well, but again, it's unilkely.  If you believe Snowden, he has said that properly implemented and strong encryption is still secure, and the bitcoin source code certainly seems to meet those qualifications (it's rather simple and also open source, so it has been vetted by developers, security experts, and hackers alike).  The theory that good encryption is still secure is further supported by the fact that much of Snowden's leaks show an NSA trying to implement server-side backdoors and things of that nature to get *around* encryption, which would only be necessary if they in fact could not crack it.  Therefore, it's most likely that the NSA is not hiding some cryptographically revolutionary mathematical discovery, and thus the fundamental bitcoin protocol is secure.  There's still a huge potential for user error however if you aren't well versed in what you're doing.  If you read about a bitcoin "hack", it is always a hack of someone's infrastructure built around bitcoin, as the protocol itself has not to anyone's knowledge ever been hacked.  That's analogous to someone breaking into your poorly designed gold vault.  

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:37 | 4100648 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

"That's analogous to someone breaking into your poorly designed gold vault."

 

I bought it government surplus. Sounded like a good deal, at the time. ;-}

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:15 | 4100808 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Naive at best but at least you have a nicely polished opinion.

Over.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:31 | 4099869 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

lame duck obama worries?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:37 | 4099884 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

Something is very wrong about this bit coin bull shit. It is not the answer to our fiat problem. Seems like this is mob driven. Beware!

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:50 | 4099926 CH1
CH1's picture

Something is very wrong about this bit coin bull shit.

Good. Stay away from it. Protect your ignorance.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:11 | 4099996 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

The moment its hacked it will fail.

Its only as good as its encryption, somewhere out there .... someone is investing hundreds of thousands to find a way to exploit the system/spoof coinds/dupe coins etc.... it will happen, its just a matter of time.... and when it does happen POOF BITCOINS mass sell-off.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:20 | 4100015 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

SHA256 can't be hacked.  People have been trying for decades.

Gold, on the other hand, CAN be hacked.  Governments have done it again and again.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:15 | 4100177 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

Ha, just wait till JPM starts offering bitcoin derivatives! Puts and calls! Yeah, baby, we can securitize bitcoins!

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:15 | 4100179 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

LOL, who made SHA256?

If you're too lazy to look it up, I'll give you a clue, the N to the S to the motherfuckin A.

 Nice try try asshole.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 06:19 | 4100634 malikai
malikai's picture

So?

It's an open standard. Feel free to analyze the algorithm yourself. Oh, and if you really don't trust it, which is understandable, you should probably turn off your computer, cancel your credit cards, burn all your dollars, and stop eating. Since pretty much all of those activities touch the SHA algorithm at some point in some way.

Best to be safe..

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 10:23 | 4101206 superflex
superflex's picture

Decades?

Now that's funny.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:06 | 4100305 One And Only
One And Only's picture

bitcoin is opensource. hack it. 

 

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:39 | 4099895 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

GOODNIGHT motherfucking FED!

The people will choose their own medium of exchange and not play by the money changers rules...

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:51 | 4099929 CH1
CH1's picture

Ah, someone who gets it. :)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:17 | 4100815 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

You never came across to me as naive. Oh how fast things can change.

Over.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:40 | 4099897 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Pretty cool! Thanks for the report!

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:46 | 4099913 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Saw the public affairs director, Jinyoung Lee, for bitcoin on russia today. Damn !!!

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:46 | 4099915 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Cue annexation in 3-2-1.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:47 | 4099917 BadDog
BadDog's picture

Does the palm scan contain an RFID chip?  Just to be safe you know.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:53 | 4099937 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Naw, that's on BCATM 3.0; on this one you just provide DNA by masterbating furiously into a testing recepticle.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:02 | 4099962 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

So, if your a vagina, do you provide a pap smear?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:10 | 4099991 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

No , women must carry a man around and jerk them off furiously to redeem their bit-coins.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:10 | 4102436 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

A Bitolo?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 21:49 | 4099924 nmewn
nmewn's picture

There is only one reason why Obumbler would be concerned about Bitcoin, he can't track it. But he/they can track down a person who uses it and arrest them...but he can't track IT?

Hmmm, I may have to re-think my initial conduit for money password theory.

Nope...it stands, dead men tell no tales and fortes fortuna juvat.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:50 | 4100108 Haole
Haole's picture

Despite being incarcerated, Ross Ulbricht is still in control of millions and millions of $ worth of BTC in his wallet(s) that alphabet agencies have been unable to decrypt as of yet.  With a strong enough brainwallet or passphrase, one doesn't even have to "hold it to own it". 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 08:23 | 4100827 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

And this will be it's downfall. How can I short this 'bitcoin' thing? I'm ready to make some real coin.

Over.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:00 | 4099954 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"turn bitcoins directly into Canadian dollars, or turn Canadian dollars into bitcoins."

Which, in appropriate context, defines an underground currency...

Ironically, those who put positive pressure on bitcoin are feeding the concept of a global currency, and there will be no underground global currency rising above ground, try as it may all the way to meltdown.

In a meltdown situation, bitcoin will not be very useful... eh?

 

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:24 | 4100025 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

"In a meltdown situation, bitcoin will not be very useful... eh?"

Neither would cash or gold.  Bullets would be money, then.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:02 | 4099963 wstrub
wstrub's picture

doesn't pass the smell test...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:09 | 4100313 One And Only
One And Only's picture

90% of dollars have cocaine residue. Start sniffing

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/08/14/cocaine.traces.money/

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:08 | 4099983 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

So... a machine that... takes your money, then gives you tokens.... and then lets you redeem your tokens back into money.

 

would make sense if there was an Arcade somewhere or something, but on its own? meh

 

Its petty cash for under-ground transactions....

im sure drug dealers and prostitutes will love it! lol

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:30 | 4100044 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

"then gives you tokens"

The tokens are the best money mankind has ever invented.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 11:14 | 4101411 Saro
Saro's picture

I think you mean:

A machine takes your Bennie-bucks and gives you a uncounterfeitable currency (with a verfiable chain of custody to prove it's authenticity).  And here's the kicker:  they are such nice guys, they'll let you turn that miracle currency back into plain old Bennie-bucks if you so choose.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:10 | 4099993 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Interesting that Canada, as an outright oil exporter, is going to become the core support of this stuff.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:11 | 4099994 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

I want a silver ATM god dammit! The U.S. Mint sells 3 million oz every friggin month. Some lucky bastard could make a fortune selling silver ATM's in this country. I'd buy every other day. I'm serious as cancer on this idea.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:46 | 4100096 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

And yet nobody is making them... I wonder why?

Maybe you overestimate the demand for silver.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:13 | 4102444 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Or maybe just the market for premiums...

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:16 | 4100000 Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

Canada is a subject of the British Crown. If this little experiment in bitcoin is being allowed, then you can bet that it is an alternative currency which they intend to absorb, like the Borg. It could be useful to extend their control over refuseniks who dislike the status quo, and are too dim to look beneath the surface of anything they are offered.

Best leave the scanners and scammers to the old world/new world order, in my opinion, and keep stacking the real stuff.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 11:16 | 4101416 Saro
Saro's picture

I see this sentiment a lot ("the government will take over bitcoin!") but those people are always unable to explain what that means, or how exactly it could happen.

Can you?

(The government would be digging their own grave.  When BTC is mainstream, taxes are a thing of the past.)

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:14 | 4100003 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I'm still on the fence.

The concept is good, it's the execution side that worries me.

An ATM where you could convert phys to bitcoin in total darkness, and vice versa, would be a thing of frightening beauty!

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:22 | 4100021 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

One doesn't need an ATM.  You can meet up with someone in-person at a Starbucks or whatever and hand them cash and they'll send Bitcoins to your address.  It's pretty straightforward, like sending an email.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 22:27 | 4100031 CH1
CH1's picture

localbitcoins.com

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 07:49 | 4100740 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

I have to look more into the smaller ones on that list.  The first one I looked at my security software flagged as a phishing attempt.  The second won't give payment details till after I make the committment to send money.  What's to insure there will be anonymous routes tomorrow?  The bigger ones that aren't make it clear they have to comply with the govt's anti-laundering rules. 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 09:48 | 4101064 CH1
CH1's picture

my security software flagged as a phishing attempt.

Security software written by whom?

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:17 | 4100184 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

How do you insure you're going to get what you paid for when you hand that person your cash?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 00:16 | 4100266 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

Here's my quick and dirty method for quick face-to-face btc sales:

1. Go to http://brainwallet.org

2. Save this page to your local machine (Save Page As...). It's javascript and will run offline.

3. Take your computer offline.

4. Create a Bitcoin address in whatver way you see fit. I usually mash a whole bunch of random keys together, like 75-100 with punctuation, to generate the address.

5. Print out the address and the private key along with the QR code. We'll call it Copy 1. Put this away in a safe place and keep it to yourself. Print another copy of the address and the QR code, leaving the private key unprinted. Call this Copy 2.

6. When buying btc, hand the person Copy 2 and they'll send to this address.

7. Look up your address on http://blockchain.info and wait for confirmation. You now have satoshis and can hand over cash.

8. When you want to redeem your coins, import your private key from Copy 1 into the wallet of choice.

Mon, 10/28/2013 - 23:51 | 4100273 Haole
Haole's picture

Localbitcoins users (sellers specifically) are rated like eBay sellers and it is recommended that people only buy from rated reputable sellers.  The transfer of BTC takes about as long as it takes to hand someone some cash.  The "premium" over exchange "spot" is usually quite a bit higher than on an exchange however so instead of 1.4% on VirtEx or 0% on ChinaBTC as examples, most reputable sellers are hitting you with a 5-6% premium in my area anyway.  

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!