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Peter Schiff Blasts "The Website Is Fixable, Obamacare Isn't!"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Peter Schoff via Euro Pacific Capital,

Since Obamacare made its debut, discussions have focused on Ted Cruz' efforts to defund the law and the shockingly bad functionality of the Website itself. Fortunately for Obama, polling indicates that Senator Cruz has lost, at least for now, the battle for hearts and minds. The President has not been nearly so lucky on the technological front. If current trends continue, the rollout may go down as the worst major product launch in history. But given the government's enormous resources, it's safe to say that the site itself will ultimately be fixed. But when it is finally up and running, the plan's many deeper, and more intractable, flaws will come into focus. That's when the fun will really begin.

Put simply the program is built on a mountain of false assumptions and is covered by a terrain of unanticipated incentives. Any cleared-eyed observer should conclude that it is perfectly designed to raise the costs of care and wreck the federal budget. However, like just about every other complicated problem that bedevils the nation, the public has become far too caught up in the politics and has ignored the horrific details.

Most people agree that the plan can only remain solvent if enough young and healthy people ("the invincibles") agree to sign up. They are the ones who are likely to pay more into the system than they take out. But now that insurance coverage is guaranteed to anyone at any time (at the same price -- even after they have gotten sick or injured), the only incentive for the invincibles to sign up will be to avoid the penalty (I think we can dismiss "civic duty" as an effective motivator). But as I detailed in a column last year, Justice John Roberts declared the law to be constitutional only because the penalties are far too low to actually compel behavior. Once young healthy people understand that they can save money by dropping insurance, they will. No amount of slick, cheerful TV ads will change that.

The good news for Obama is that the plan will get a large percentage of young people covered. The bad news is that many of those that do sign up will not help the bottom line. The youngest and healthiest of the group are under 26 and will now be able to stay on their parents' plans. This group will add nothing to the pool of premiums (but will use services). Among those older than 26, the ones who qualify for the largest subsidies will be more inclined to sign up. The way the plan is structured, individuals and families earning between 1.38 and 4 times the Federal poverty level will qualify for a subsidy. The government subsidy covers almost the entire premium for those near the bottom of that spectrum. These individuals will definitely sign up. But just like those under 26, they will be a net drain on the system.

From my estimations, private premium contributions don't surpass the government contributions until an individual or a family makes about 2.5 times the poverty level (which equates to about $28,000 for an individual and $55,000 for a family of 4). Since a very large percentage of young people earn less than that, many will sign up to get the benefit. But these people will likely be net drains to the system as well. Their total premiums paid may be more than the services they receive, but that may not be true when you look only at what they actually pay in.

Young women, who plan on using maternity care, may also be motivated. But they can cost more than they bring in. The real cash cows are the young men, not covered by parents, who make more than 4 times the poverty level. But their only incentive to sign up is to avoid the penalty. But at just one percent of income, the penalty just won't be a deciding factor. Most young men will save money by dropping insurance, paying the tax and incidental doctor visits out of pocket, and then only adding the insurance if and when something really bad happens.

The subsidies in Obamacare kick in and kick out very abruptly. People finding themselves on the wrong side of a dividing line will face difficult choices that hurt the plan's finances. The San Francisco Chronicle recently profiled a California couple in their early 60s making about $64,000 per year who would be able to qualify for a $14,000 annual subsidy by reducing their income by $2,000 dollars per year. It's easy to imagine such individuals reducing their hours or their pay to qualify. Of course this type of behavior modification has not been anticipated by preparing premium and budget projections. It is no accident that the government has offered no serious projections about how much in healthcare subsidies it should expect to pay out over the coming years

In truth, the premium levels themselves are based on nothing but assumptions. It is true that those lucky enough to actually get through the website's technological maze have seen (unsubsidized) premiums that are lower than similarly constituted plans in the private market. But those low prices are only possible because no one knows what the new pool of insurance holders will look like. They assume it will look like the pools that already exist. But they won't.

Of course, the incentives for the young and healthy to drop out, and for the sick, old and the heavily subsidized to drop in will mean that the post-Obamacare pool will have very different actuarial arithmetic than the current pools. But all of that is as yet unknown. The numbers we see now were put there just to make us feel good. But once the economics kicks in, look for them to rise quickly.

It is also ironic that high-deductible, catastrophic plans are precisely what young people should be buying in the first place. They are inexpensive because they provide coverage for unlikely, but expensive, events. Routine care is best paid for out-of-pocket by value conscious consumers. But Obamacare outlaws these plans, in favor of what amounts to prepaid medical treatment that shifts the cost of services to taxpayers. In such a system, patients have no incentive to contain costs. Since the biggest factor driving health care costs higher in the first place has been the over use of insurance that results from government-provided tax incentives, and the lack of cost accountability that results from a third-party payer system, Obamacare will bend the cost curve even higher. The fact that Obamacare does nothing to rein in costs while providing an open-ended insurance subsidy may be good news for hospitals and insurance companies, but it's bad news for taxpayers, on whom this increased burden will ultimately fall.

The real shock of Obamacare is not the unbelievable ineptitude in which it was launched, but the naiveté in which it was designed. The only thing worse than the product launch may be the product itself. But unlike other major entitlements, like Social Security and Medicare, that took years to produce red ink that was far in excess of original assumptions, the financial shortfalls in Obamacare should show up very quickly. Republicans should not miss that opportunity to destroy this monster that threatens us all.

 

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Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:44 | 4103318 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

No amount of lipstick on a pig can change the pig into a princess.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:49 | 4103331 knukles
knukles's picture

It's gonna collapse under it's very own weight.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:59 | 4103350 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yellenomics.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:03 | 4103365 flacon
flacon's picture

The odds that I will give up my US Citizenship increased more than the S&P on Fed stiumulus. 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:29 | 4103383 dryam
dryam's picture

On Schiff's radio show today he played a cut from the Kudlow Report the other day.  On the clip Greenspan was asked what caused the housing bubble.  He replied by saying it was caused by the fall of the Berlin wall & the abrupt shock of the socialist becoming capitalist.  He then went on to say that the bubble was also caused because of India & China saving too much.

This starts around 8:20 in the following clip....

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?play=1&video=3000211610

The transcript from Greenspan... "if you look at the -- it's not the issue of, first of all, subprime, that's a minor -- almost a minor issue. the real problem is that when the berlin wall came down, the economic room behind the iron curtain was so debilitating and so unexpected that the third world, which is what we now call the developing world, which had been largely collectivized with socialism and regulation, switched very dramatically towards market capitalism. and that money flowed here? is that what you're saying? from the berlin wall to the u.s. markets? china basically was the big mover, india's also moved. but the data show that since then, the rate of growth in the developing world is also running at twice the rate of growth of the developed world. the cultures in those societies are such that they can't spend it all and indeed china has savings. and we got the back wash. we got this huge flow of savings, which suppressed the real rate of interest not on in the united states but everywhere."

 
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:32 | 4103458 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Yeah, and a butterfly in Africa caused "superstorm Sandy".  I wonder if Greenspan believes his own bullshit?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:56 | 4103523 dryam
dryam's picture

Kudlow didn't even ask a follow up question.  Any real journalist would have at least said "What?!".

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 03:06 | 4103930 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Politician, (Keynesian) Economist, (Liberal) journalist, must it hate when math is get in way of progressive agenda. Math and Fact... can not just is get rid of?!

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 07:19 | 4104086 Truthseeker2
Truthseeker2's picture

"First they get your body; then they take your mind; then they grab your soul."

This is why the all the mainstream economists have completely lost it like Fama, the Nobel winner !

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=383

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:45 | 4103459 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Double tap, sorry

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 03:26 | 4103939 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Thread jack, sorry...

Boris invoke Tragedy of Commons (or for destroyer political agendist, "Strategy of Commons")...

Pillar of Obamacare is 1) Individual Mandate (punishment incentive of piddle tax fine), 2) No preclusion of extant condition, 3) Sick and Healthy citizenry is bath in same pool, 4) what left is of "free market" is build in price for 2) and 3), and premium is rise (has rise?).

Because tax penalty 1) so small, if premium 4) is high, sick people 2) is flock to pool 3) while healthy person is consider penalty cheap to premium 4). Soon, pool is all sick only and healthy citizenry is pay penalty, but not premium. Question, why healthy person bother to insure if 2) can be purchase day become sick or injury!?

Conclusion... Obamacare if web site is actual to work is survive <1 year. If AmeriKa citizenry lucky, web site is eternal bug and Obamacare is delay in perpetuity.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 07:48 | 4104131 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

They will simply raise the fine until it is higher than the insurance premium.  Problem solved, citizen screwed forever.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:57 | 4103663 BigSpruce
BigSpruce's picture

Greenspittle looks like what you would get if Woody Allen were to mate with Mrs. Potato Head. What a fuckin evil cunt! 

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:18 | 4103860 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

Report: Obama administration knew millions would be forced to change insurance

 

Before the Affordable Care Act became law in 2010, President Barack Obama promised Americans they could keep their health care plans if they liked them. But already hundreds of thousands of citizens are receiving notification that their plans are being canceled because they don't comply with the new law, and, according to NBC News, the Obama administration has known for at least three years the cancellations were coming.

While campaigning for health care reform in 2009, Obama went out of his way to make one thing perfectly clear: If you like your current health care plan, you will be able to keep it.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-knew-millions-wouldn-t-be-abl...

 

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 03:19 | 4103941 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Administration is not just "know", but is "design" change health coverage.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 04:16 | 4103972 SunRise
SunRise's picture

IMPEACH!

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 07:51 | 4104133 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Two words: single payer!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:04 | 4103367 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

Your wrong!  Just look at Moochelle she has lipstick and an expense account like a princess!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:08 | 4103382 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

You win. Sort of.

(an expense account like a princess does not a princess make)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:19 | 4103413 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

Touche'.   You cant beg, borrow, steal, or buy CLASS,  Moochelle is the perfect example.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 03:20 | 4103942 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

"Moo-chelle" - you are confuse porcine and bovine analogy.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:48 | 4103499 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Agree. Still don't get why you think you possess God's vengeance, though.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:11 | 4103396 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

She looks like a process alright. Like Fiona from Shrek.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:47 | 4103322 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Benghazi, Fast and Furious, Obamacare, IRS hitmen, NSA spying, more people on the dole than full time workers, Barry fails E-verify, cities going bankrupt all over the country....  Add your grievances here.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:52 | 4103338 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

I must've missed something in the transition, I'm still getting up and going to work everyday...

Everyone else is sitting on the banks of Lake Monroe fishing and listening to their iPods and spending their EBT on Schlitz Malt Liquor.

I guess I'm the dumbass, huh?

DaddyO

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:57 | 4103345 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

DaddyO still has to work, NDAA, TSA groping, Nancy Pelosi, Charlie Rangell....  Come on people, VENT!!!!!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:06 | 4103374 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

I see a some of those fishermen are here on ZH and gave me the big red swish...

Well they can go do the biologically impossible, so there!

DaddyO

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:10 | 4103391 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Don't worry DaddyO. Some folks read something logical or funny (or both) and they just see red. ;-)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:11 | 4103392 HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

Sorry, Daddy.  I misread you the first time.

Thumbs up!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:15 | 4103405 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

DaddyO nails it!  This country has been big red swished!  Lights out, America.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:24 | 4103430 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

TeamDepends,

Methinks this is the real "big red swish"

But given the government's enormous resources, it's safe to say that the site itself will ultimately be fixed. But when it is finally up and running, the plan's many deeper, and more intractable, flaws will come into focus. That's when the fun will really begin.

We been had and the fun has not yet begun...just you wait and see!

DaddyO

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:56 | 4103662 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Really could not understand why the Republicans were so insistent on delaying implementation for one year (viz., until after the elections). What's that saying about when an enemy is making mistakes or destroying himself ... ?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:59 | 4103530 tvdog
tvdog's picture

TSA is the one that does it for me. When that kid at the airport put on his blue gloves and shoved his hands in my underwear, that was the end of my America. You can have this place.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:57 | 4103347 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Nixon was impeached for Watergate, and they don't have enough on Obama to start the process on him?

The times, they have been a-changin'.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:07 | 4103377 HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

Nixon had an antagonistic press who despised him.  Obama has a press that adores him and pushes his agenda no matter what he's done.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:21 | 4103409 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Not defending the big zero, but you must get over this idea.

Fox (the leading cable news network by far), Drudge (the leading internet news source by far), Rush (the leading radio talk show host by far), WSJ (major US paper and leading financial print news source by far), all hate the guy.

The so-called liberal media is owned and controlled by the likes of General Electric.  They carefully define the debate and avoid real issues while focusing all of their attention on how it's all the Red Team's fault, and discussing social issues like abortion and gay rights.  They give red meat to the Blue Team while apologizing for and distracting away from the fascist activities of both parties.

It's time we stop pretending that the press is liberal.  The press is corporate and its goal is to divide the country by team colors.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:31 | 4103455 HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

I don't think you truly understand the makeup of most of the MSM.  The typical network producer is extremely liberal and they set the agenda for the show and the culture of their organization.  The typical reporter is also very liberal, and so they usually fit in quite will with the culture of their "news" organization.   Fox, Drudge, and bloggers like ZH are only a minority in the MSM.

Now if you're talking Repubs vrs. Demos, then yes, I believe what you say is essentially correct.  But it's obvious that we're going down the tubes much faster with one of these clusterfarts than the other, but they are both still pathetic. 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:41 | 4103481 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I think you were right 20 years ago.  Certainly 40 years ago.  The press then was about taking on the government, which was deemed "liberal."  I can count on one hand the MSM reporters of any medium who have done that job for a long time.  I seem to recall even MSNBC cheering for the Iraq war, for example.  I realize that long-held perceptions die hard, which is part of the very narrative that keeps us divided.  

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:53 | 4103515 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Maybe I'm bi-polar, but this time I agree with you.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:08 | 4103685 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Hey, Rand? Eat this.

Matt Drudge is a Democrat. A homosexual. He lives with his boyfriend in an apartment in Miami.

He is no Republican. He is no conservative.

He does, however, have a old fashioned understanding and respect going back to his childhood for what it means to be a journalist that is sadly lacking in ALL other mainstream media (including most on the right). Back in the nineties, he gave an intriguingly wistful speech to the National Press Club explaining how, well, he came to be.

Even with what appears to be a sincere and genuine passion for reporting the news in an objective manner, his website still skews left by objective measure, but substantially less so than other media outlets.

Matt Drudge is a progressive, homosexual, Democrat. He just happens to value the press more than his party.

I often wish there were more Republicans like him; viz., individuals who would place principle over party.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:32 | 4103739 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Brah, I don't care if he smokes cocks while trying to sell bagels at a Klan rally.  There's no such thing as truth in media, not even on ZH.  The nuggets that he, and Greenwald, and Alex Jones provide are invaluable.  Call me a heretic, but it's a lot like realizing the Bible is 75% bullshit, while being able to sort out the stuff that's valuable.

It requires discretion.  You got it?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:34 | 4103607 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Give me a break!

The "conservative media" as you outline it reaches a very small portion of Americans. The bulk of Americans get their news from the major networks and few are the news junkies that we are. And what they get is interjected in virtually every produced show on TV that the braindead imbibe. Hell, Obama won't even appear on Fox and democrats wouldn't even participate in debates that Fox hosted.The left denies the media is a leftist group but sure as hell won't go near conservative programming.

And as far as the Iraq war is concerned, I don't think you were paying attention. I watched about every relevant program at the time and the MSM was running a constant parade of "professionals" explaining how it was going to be a disaster and our troups were going to be slaughtered as soon as they hit Baghdad.They were and always have been anti-war, but manage to lose interest when democrats are in charge. How many died in our bombings of Lybia. DO you think you would know if Bush was still president? How many have died in Afghanistan under Obama? We heard Bush's death toll almost everyday.

The proof of the media bias is the fact we have NEVER had a president so blatantly lie and be to his neck in crap as Obama, and never be called to account. This is the press's job and they ain't doing it. No charges leveled by the right has ever been answered for. None. Never. Unless you are a complete DEMOCRAT, you must admit that Bush would have never gotten this pass. The press controls public opinion and we know from looking at that one metric, the press is in the bag. Rush is singing to the choir and will make little ultimate change. You know this. You profess it. If it comes from any one of these right wingers you immediately dismiss it.

After reading your posts here for some time now, its pretty obvious where you stand yet you keep trying to act like a centrist, but of course about every wingnut here sees themselves as centrist, including myself.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 13:15 | 4104672 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"It's time we stop pretending that the press is liberal.  The press is corporate and its goal is to divide the country by team colors."

Exactly, although their primary goal is the attainment of a profitable market share which requires that division, not some grand conspiracy, and there is definitely self-censorship within the corporate media by their "journalists" based upon what they perceive to be permissible stories within their particular corporate culture.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:00 | 4103355 webspin
webspin's picture

Just the EBT? What about the free cell phones the EIC money (not to mention the EIC fraud of 132 billion in the last 10 years), the HUD and Medicade? This is just scratching the surface. Cities like Detroit are completly held up by billions of cash flowing from the burbs to them.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:06 | 4103375 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

I junked ya for bein' a dumbass. Productive, responsible, community-minded citizens are sooo last century.

If everyone just dropped out, this bullshit would cease.

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:24 | 4103677 sgorem
sgorem's picture

damn Daddy', i used to swill a little Schlitz back in the day, many moons ago, along with some Testors and a # 6 paper bag. ah, the good ole days...:)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:53 | 4103342 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Chariman Mao Christmas balls on the Christmas trees. Communist Mao,, Communist marx?? all the same. NWO marx socialist..

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:57 | 4103343 knukles
knukles's picture

I was running over "the list" if you will of all the stuff come to light and there's a lot.  The I tried to think of any real notable successes and even the MSM has piped that the ACA is his legacy showcase legislation.
Everything else has gone soft and smelly.

And then I started to feel sorry for the guy.
Seriously.
I mean, here was one of the best opportunities ever given a man what with his purported background and swell of idolatry, praise for high... and it comes to this ... fully based upon his very own personal foibles.

I was saddening....
Reminds me of so many stories after the first 164 pages.... all the failures based upon egoism, self-centeredness, false personalities, promises (both with and without a solemn oath) attached to no actions, distance, loneliness, surrounding by sycophants, abandonment by supporters after too many failure, the very playing of God by his own ego... ...
I know this well from past experience.
Sadness

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:59 | 4103352 Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I keep saying this to all I see, how do you like the HOAX and CHAINS you've voted for! Do you like me now? ROFLMAO, they won't be able to keep this entitlement/MIC charade up for much longer, w/o pieces falling off in the meantime.

 

America has lost it's SHAME! That my friends is the crux of it.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:21 | 4103384 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

Whats shame? Having a halfrican?  Being so ghetto ass broke you need uncle sam to pay for yo cellie? Soul crushing poverty that you make no attempt at all to escape that makes you beg for Section 8? A complete lackof dignity that makes you ax for foodies?  Free schewel lunch? Too lazy to farm land you own so you demand a payment for not farming it? Applying for a fat scooter?  Demanding free daycare to watch your 6 kids by 5 baby daddies?  Hmnn who under the age of 50 would know what shame is?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:06 | 4103353 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Knuckles, I hear you. I read you.

I tried real hard, but just couldn't work up any sadness for him.

(Full disclosure: I didn't really try that hard)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:08 | 4103542 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Yeah Deo, I hear you too.  But if you zoom out and refocus, Obama has recanted just about everything that got him where he is.

The system that created him has now turned on him, and even he can't believe it.  Obama is a kept man, and that is sad.  He was stupid and narcissistic enough to think himself special.  It's now clear, even to him, that he's not.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:49 | 4103650 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Could give a fuck what he says. Its what he does that is of concern and I see no reversal in that...at all. And those supporting him,the real people supporting him,will continue to do so. They will fein surprise and disappointment but they will always come back to him. Like CNN was saying how "unfortunate" it was the Obama spoke all of those words about keeping one's healthcare that turned out to be "inaccurate". No fucking lie or deliberate misleading. Nope, they are still behind him. They may take a step back, but they are still there. Abrogation is a significant tool used in misdirection by Muslims. It is perfectly acceptable to lie if it advances THE goal. He's not lying about the size of his dick. He lying to advance an agenda. He lies to buy time and get what he wants put into law and he knows he won't EVER be called to account. There  is as much chance of the media turning on him as the Fed disbanding. We are bound to hear all kinds of "my bad" with a chuckle and a wink, but the ball is being moved down the field. The republicans will file protest and may get a few delays in the game, but they are heading for the goal posts, and the refs are on their side.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:59 | 4103669 acetinker
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:25 | 4103727 sgorem
sgorem's picture

+1000

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:15 | 4103403 HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

It's difficult to feel sorry for a person whom I believe that their intentions are not honorable.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:44 | 4103480 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

You and I have a mutual friend. Bill Dubya. 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:07 | 4103695 sgorem
sgorem's picture

@ knukles...

"and even the MSM has piped that the ACA is his legacy showcase legislation."....is there any possible way we could change the word "legacy", to maybe "EPITAPH", kinda has a more hopeful ring to it. just sayin............

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 05:29 | 4103999 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

I admire your posts Mr Knukles but, besides the very humanistic angst you express about the human factor, this man is quite simply and vulgarly, a POS. The succuba and Incubus and their bureaucratic enablers to this travesty (by the tens of thousands) have wrought HAVOC to the republic. I despair. But then I always allow for putting one foot towards the threshold of hope.  Deo volente. 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:49 | 4103329 lunaticfringe
lunaticfringe's picture

Like I've always said. Just let ACA go to work. It will commit suicide all on it's own.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:50 | 4103334 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  It will commit suicide all on it's own.

Yeah,  just like Big-OldFartHealthCare did.   

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:41 | 4103827 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You're right, it's here to stay.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:19 | 4103417 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You are probably right. However that one bullet is going to ricochet all over the place and take out many innocent people during its death throes. It may be worth it just to be rid of this motherfucker.

Miffed;-)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:06 | 4103537 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Great analogy Miffed, it's the unintended consequences that are a bitch.

The Great Society is still reverberating around the country reaking havoc.

ACA and a hundred other 3 bit programs will leave nothing but death and destruction in their paths and we'll be lucky to survive unscathed.

I thinks we have a better chance surviving MRSA or some other such little unseen critters than we do our government.

DaddyO

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:10 | 4103549 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Coming from you, motherfucker is the ultimate rebuke.  I lol'd.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:15 | 4103560 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

I think she might have had an extra glass of wine after dinner.

It may have liberated her tougue a little more than usual, but very apropos, nontheless!

Daddyo

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:29 | 4103593 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Maybe so, and I hope she never thinks I don't love that rebellious spirit, 'cos I do.  I just didn't expect a woman in a lab coat to utter the word in reference to dear leader>

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:08 | 4103846 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Ace and daddyO, you guys are the best and thanks for the support. Coming from you two means a lot!

They have tried to slap me down for years and I have spit in their eye and will keep my obstreperous spirit alive. This ACA steaming pile has hit too close to home and I'm losing my decorum day by day. I've always tried to be rational, give benefit of doubt and refrain from judgement in most areas in my life. I've had a reputation for being fair and balanced. However, I'm done now and refuse to bend over for the idiot, despotic, power made "leaders" any longer. My language has taken a colorful turn in response. But they truly don't deserve civility from me!

May be you are right though. A clinical lab coat does seem a bit incongruent with bantering about words like " mother fucker". Funny thing, it actually isn't. We used to run a test called MTHFR. Doctors called me all the time asking for me to run the test but they always forgot the name. Once when the lab director was next to me I said " you mean Mother Fucker?" "Ah...well...yes that is the test!" Yep, I was written up for non professional behavior and it was worth it! I wrote on the report " helping the clinical staff with a mnemonic so to aid their memory of proper test requests" no one laughed. My humor is never appreciated.

Miffed;-)

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 04:04 | 4103964 akak
akak's picture

Miffed, I would have loved to work in a lab with you, at least back when I did that kind of work.  You have my same sense of twisted humor.

Once my lab manager came back from a conference and gave several of us benchdogs a button proclaiming "I'm a today's chemist!"  She was not very appreciative when I posted my button on the bulletin board (on the night shift, but forget to take it down by the morning) with the added line "at yesterday's wages".

:-)

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 10:59 | 4104696 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Wow akak. A kindred lab rat spirit as well! How apropos. So that was the strange simpatico feeling I had felt between us. Funny. Most wild haired individual types eventually flee the lab arena. I think the dogmatic precise procedures that do not allow for creativity eventually saps their spirit. I ( and a few dogged others) have held on, not without personal grief daily I may say. If I had the chance to do it over again I would have chosen differently. Something more akin to my naturally independent nature. But I'm a bit too old now to reinvent myself. Thank God ( sorry ;-)) I found ZH and, therefore, a way to express some pent up exuberances!

Miffed;-)

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 07:47 | 4104127 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Miffed, The ACA thing is the straw that finally broke this ol' camel's back.  I ain't doin' it.  Anyone who thinks they can require this old man to participate in this clusterfuck can always and forever kiss my ass.

Don't you worry about decorum.  It's highly over-rated IMHO.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 10:57 | 4104701 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

He he! I love it. A high five from me to you. :-)

Miffed;-)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:13 | 4103556 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

the shtrills (troll shills) are out in force, this shit must really be imploding. good times, good times.

and yeah it's too bad for all the little people that get trampled in the process. oh well, eggs and omelettes etc.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:07 | 4103698 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Just read your bio miffed, had to chuckle about the plates. Use them all the time in my line of work as well(R&D for an animal vaccine pharma).

Ok, the real chuckle was from the bullet,lol.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:22 | 4103866 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Really? You use BAPs? You must do bacterial as well as viral. Figured most of your work would be inoculating eggs. Probably work with some fun stuff like Brucella and rabies?

Miffed;-)

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 08:40 | 4104245 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Not much for rabies, we deal more with swine and beef related goodies. Ecoli, Ileitis, Strep suis, etc. Fun stuff. Just getting ready to take some Remal plates out now:)

Best part of this job is I get to do maintenance and calibrations as well, never a dull day.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 10:27 | 4104598 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

A plate jockey! Oh wow, them days I miss. Hard work in the clinical realm and sometimes dangerous. Had a work associate die of Meningococcemia. Several have gotten Brucella. One isolated Francisella and was out two week in quarantine and on prophylaxis. I went into Molecular for better pay and job security but I miss working with the bugs. Whenever you get complacent and think you know it all they slap you aside the head. I like that.

Hey, wait a second. You're pulling out racks and on ZH! WTF! Must be the difference from research and clinical. I got the ZH site individually blocked system wide after a long fight. My husband got me an iPad and they changed the wifi password. So I sit at break on 3G and give them a virtual middle finger. Love to watch them scowl. ;-)

Miffed;-)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:49 | 4103330 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Git yer commie libertarian hands off my motorscooter,  I'm entitled to that motorscooter you hippy.  Why don't you go find some real socialism to cut, huh?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:09 | 4103385 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

HUH?!?

How 'bout cluing the rest of us into what the hell you're talking about...

DaddyO

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:01 | 4103843 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I read the comment as- we're all complicit because most of us benefit from the currrent financial ponzi scam.  He may be right.  We may have sold out a long time ago.  Do we want to accept the fact that we can't afford shit or do we keep our current standard of living by giving away what little is left of our individual liberty.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:23 | 4103426 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

Eric Cartman  you need exercise not a fat scooter.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:59 | 4103351 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Obama flat out lied to the people. Today, Steny Hoyer admitted to National Review that the Democrats were in on this and knew for years many wouldn't be able to keep their doctor/plan. Then that HHS woman is hauled before Congress and stonewalls, basically telling them to eff off with their requests for numbers. Then, high level Obama lackeys have the gall to tell us the plan is good, working and will let you keep your doctor/health plan - in the face of 1.5 million people already being dropped and prices skyrocketing. Then NBC gets caught pulling a damning story which implicates Obama in the lie - and we all know the White House was behind it.

And that's just TODAY in Obama's America.

 

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:02 | 4103359 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

Obamacare was designed to create vote slaves.  It is working as planned.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:02 | 4103361 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

The fact that Obamacare does nothing to rein in costs while providing an open-ended insurance subsidy may be good news for hospitals and insurance companies...

It ought to be, that's who wrote it.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:04 | 4103368 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

America has the worst health care system in the developed world, delivering worse outcomes for a far higher cost. Why? It's the only country that refuses to use a single-payer system. Freedom!!!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:15 | 4103404 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Lol. I know a Daily Kos-bot when I see one. You gave it away even though you didnt spell it right. Freeduhm!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:13 | 4103558 orez65
orez65's picture

"America has the worst health care system in the developed world ..."

You are full of shit, the "worst health care system in the developed world" saved my life 4 years ago.

I got excellent emergency health care just when I needed it.

Go fuck yourself.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:45 | 4103642 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Look! In the basket - your head!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:07 | 4103372 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Cached, for you viewing pleasure, even though NBC was told to take out a paragraph:

"Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”  

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them. 

Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

Its just like that Christmas present from your prankster Uncle Barry...you always knew there was a spring coiled up in that can, he was snickering as you picked it up but you opened it anyways...and you both had a laugh when it scared the shit out of you ;-)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:11 | 4103394 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

My grandfather had a can of peanuts that he used to keep around to scare the b'jibbers out of me. Worked everytime!

DaddyO

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:17 | 4103410 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...your grandfather was a good man.

He never stuffed a poisonous snake in one ;-)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:29 | 4103445 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

How'd you know it was a spring loaded snake?

Tha sucker would squirt out of that can for what seemed like "ETERNITY"!! and I would let out a scream and throw the whole damned thing in the air like it was going to eat me on something...

Oh those were the days, no worries about NSA, IRS, NDAA, NWO or any of the other alphabet fears we have today!!

DaddyO

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:29 | 4103447 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Anyone operation on 1/10 of a brain cell knew this was out and out deception. This revelation should not have surprised anyone. They MUST proceed on this course to guarantee the implementation of single payer and the full take over of our health system. At present healthcare represents 17% of GDP. A staggering figure. What bloated behemouth will it become when the government has it? The rape of our liberties continues.

Miffed;-)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:37 | 4103471 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm tying to get our boy billwilson to splain "single payer" and who & what that actually is, down thread.

So far...nuttin ;-)

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:16 | 4103857 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Bummer,that would have been a fun take down Nmewn! To utter such horseshit and leave? Come back asshole. We want to taunt the shit out of you.

Miffed;-)

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 06:44 | 4104027 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Oh the best is yet to come, because when this mess DOES fail, and the law is repealed,  the insurance companies will be given a pass on any bad behavior in order to reset the system-  coverage will drop, but rates won't come down (rates NEVER come down), and history will hold this administration as the single most economically destructive government since Nazi Germany-  we'll be fondly wishing for the "broken" health care system we've had up till now.

But what do the policticians care?   Even fucktards like Pelosi get re-elected, because their constituancies are cattle, and if they don't get re-elected, so what?   When was the last time we saw a retired politician live out their retirement in poverty and shame?   Even a toad like Weiner doesn't sweat life after office.

It's as if a bunch of 8 year olds drew up this plan- completely clueless as to any tertiary consequences.

I'm 53, self-employed, haven't had a reason to seek health care in 40 years.   Up til now, I've happily paid my monthly toll to Blue Cross-  it's $400 I can justify.

Now I'm told that my "existing" plan under the new plan will run about $1800/mo- laughable.

It's not that I can't afford it-  I'll just CHOOSE not to get screwed over, until I need something from health care- simple. 

Oh I'm sorry Barry- you were counting on my mindless money?  

Dumbass......

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:09 | 4103387 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

if the site ever does get fixed I wonder if Anonymous or some group of hackers will launch unrelenting DOS attacks with the billions of bots they have stashed around the world?

 

for now, it would be like kicking a dying dog.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:20 | 4103422 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

The IRS gave up on their computer system supposed to tie all IRS functions together after a few billion dollars wasted.

The NHS gave up their system after 6 years and 11 billion pounds down the drain.

It does not seem fixable. There was no one organizing all the subcomponents into a coherent whole. Even if the accomplish that by november 30 the debugging of the system as a whole will be just starting

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:27 | 4103438 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

That would be eff'n hilarious if after another billion spent on the site they cant keep some script kiddies from shutting them down.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:42 | 4103484 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

I am certain that hilarity will ensue.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:10 | 4103388 billwilson
billwilson's picture

SINGLE PAYER - the only way to go in health care!

Screw the Sick Industrial Complex.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:14 | 4103400 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Explain single payer...completely to the masses...if you have the balls.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:40 | 4103478 stant
stant's picture

i smacked the red kitty

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:52 | 4103514 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

that has got to be the lamest troll I've ever read.  can't Valerie Jarrett do any better than that?  sad, but I'll play along.

 

Bill, we all know that is the administration's ultimate goal, we just don't think it's a good idea to give all that power and control to a fascist government, that's all.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:14 | 4103399 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

Certainly one of the better articles I've read on this clusterfuck.  But what else would expect from Peter Schiff.  Watch how Hill and Billory distance themselves from this as it implodes.  Could cost the witch the White House.  Shame....real shame.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max" 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:16 | 4103408 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Mo' Money - 1992 - The Reverend Pimp Daddy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C8DyjjjAOE (2:02)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:27 | 4103443 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

They shouldn't even bother fixing the website.  Almost everyone succeeding to sign up end up registering for medicad.  What a disaster.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:51 | 4103507 nmewn
nmewn's picture

That's what Mrs.N is saying...she's in insurance.

This is an expansion of (by gargantuan proportions) government subsidized "health care".

Give it a few years...if you're fat, old, anorexic, drink soda or beer or wine or liquor, smoke (whatever), eat red meat, donuts, ice cream, candy bars, sky dive, white water rapids, jog etc. you're stressing the system, you will be deemed an enemy of the statist bubble wrap collective culture.

Because you're driving up health care costs to government by living your own life.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:30 | 4103446 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

Singapore's single-payer health system delivers world-class care for less than Americans pay in ADMINISTRATION costs for their health. Yes, that's right - Singapore manages to provide world-class health care for less that you freeduhm-loving Americans pay leeches like insurance companies, salesmen and clerks - before you even get to any actual, er, medical services.

Well, I guess they're oriental socialists and don't love free-duhm. Still, funny how many American billionaires choose to live there - including right-wing assholes like Jim Rogers. I wonder if Peter Shifty has a place there?

Single payer is the way the whole world does because... it works. Duh.

Enjoy your freedom, zerohedgies!

A proud supporter of the British NHS. Like Churchill!

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:47 | 4103497 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Lol. At Daily Kos where you come from they censor opinions they dont like. That is typical for you freeduhm hating socialists. Here you are welcome to join fight club. We wont hide rate you. You socialists wish to rule us for our benefit and you brook no dissent.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:54 | 4103518 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

Mate, I don't give a toss what you do. I'm British, and a proud supporter of the single-payer NHS, established with the support of that freedom-hating socialist, Winston Churchill. I'm just glad I don't live in a country that calls itself developed while denying basic health care to 30 million people.

By the way, why don't the Republicans agitate for the privatisation of the police, fire service and army? Aren't these socialist institutions, run by Big Government?

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:14 | 4103540 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

You do give a toss what I do. You think i should be forced to pay for the healthcare of others.

Lol. If i dont want the givernment to run my healthcare that means I want to live in Somalia.

Surely you have a better argument than that.

No one is denying anyone anything. Freeduhm is about....well....freeduhm....they can have whatever they can pay for. Freedom is not for the faint of heart. It certainly isn't free either.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:31 | 4103596 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

I don't. Really I don't. I don't live in the US, and I don't want to. I'm just amusing myself, playing with the pond life.

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:37 | 4103618 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

I wonder, have you guys ever left the US? Do you know what life is like in other countries?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:17 | 4103716 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Got a taste of the UK, yes. Love the Hedley and Wyche toothpaste, it tastes great on a cracker!

Would I live there? Not in a million.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:21 | 4103801 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Londonistan ain't what it used to be.

neither is your "empire"..

God save the Village Greens, though..

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:14 | 4103552 akak
akak's picture

 

By the way, why don't the Republicans agitate for the privatisation of the police, fire service and army? Aren't these socialist institutions, run by Big Government?

You are correct, those services, like any other, can and should be offered by the voluntary private market, instead of by the coercive, one-size-fists-all monopoly of force that goes by the name of "government".

Yeah, we need socialized medical care, to 'fix' the problems caused by prior government involvement in, and distortion of, the market for medical services.  Funny how you statists never seem to ask yourselves why medical care was so ENORMOUSLY less expensive, per capita and in real terms, prior to the US federal government's involvement in that arena in the middle 20th century.  Just as university fees today have gone through the roof after decades of government subsidization of (ever growing) student debt to pay for those fees, but the brainwashed acolytes of government coercion (but I repeat myself) never call for the elimination of that involvement by the government in order to bring those fees back down to earth, only further and further subsidization which only feeds the fire of rising college costs.

You statists really crack me up, never being able to look beyond the surface into underlying factors and secondary effects.  All you can see is what those in power WANT you to see --- everything else is "out of sight, out of (woefully inadequate) mind".

Oh, and by the way, since the vast majority of Republicans are actually pro-Big Government, just as much as their Blue Team colleagues are, you will never hear them seriously adocating the privatization of anything of significance.  The ratchet of statism must ALWAYS move in only one direction, toward greater and greater state control of all aspects of our lives, don't you know.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:33 | 4103606 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

Love it!

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:49 | 4103649 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Apparently, I can't give you a greenie 'cos it starts with italics.  However, I am not only moved by the words on the screen, but also by what was left unsaid, but merely implied.

Brother, I don't know who or where you are.  Just know that I stand beside you, wherever you may be.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:46 | 4103831 Bazza McKenzie
Bazza McKenzie's picture

Churchill was also the designer of the disastrous Gallipoli campaign in WWI, that chewed up huge numbers of British and allied troops, before they withdrew.

So while he was a great leader during WWII he was also capable of producing great disasters, including the NHS as well as Gallipoli.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:26 | 4103868 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

The NHS is a great disaster? Tell it to the marines! The NHS is so popular that even the small-government right-wing Conservative Party has to feign support for it. A promise to get rid of the NHS would be electoral suicide, and everyone in Britain knows that. As in every other developed country bar the US, the principle of universal health care by a single provider has been accepted by the population. Why? Because it's humane, and it works.

 

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:56 | 4103893 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

The Tories aren't right-wing at all. They're left or left-lite.

NHS is a disaster. Churchill was an imperial blood thirsty war-mongering moron.

The Western world could use a real right wing instead of the phonies presented by these socialist charlatans.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 02:30 | 4103913 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

THAT'S why I love the US of A. From afar, of course - just don't ask me to go there!

Owwwwoooooo!

 

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 07:12 | 4104076 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

You are most welcome to enjoy your rapidly aging, non-British, socialist, terminally declining shithole.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:07 | 4103794 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

You'll change your tune when they put you on a 1 year wait list for an asshole reduction!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:32 | 4103450 Teddy Tenpole
Teddy Tenpole's picture

 

 

Hey Schiff, you doomer douche bag, ever get tired of stating the obvious?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:47 | 4103454 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

The higher premium costs kill disposable income from the masses(at least those that buy the insurance).  This will have a devastating effect on many small businesses as people stop spending due to lack of cash.   Expect many small businesses to close and the unemployment rate to rise.  It will get worse in the future as the tax/fine increases on those that don't purchase insurance.  Their disposable income will fall too.   And expect insurance prices to continue to rise because there won't be enough people buying insurance to cover the costs.  Obamacare is an economic disaster.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:51 | 4103508 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Dont forget the amount of disposable income lost and underemployment due to the 30 hour rule.

The worst of both worlds. They have their pay cut and then qualify for medicaid. A huge misallocation and waste of peoductive potential. Thank you Obamao

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:41 | 4103483 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

In the years to come, many economic treatises will be written about how the collapse of the USA was caused by the implementation of the ACA in the midst of a depression, which took away the remaining disposable income of the American middle class.

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:46 | 4103495 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Saw this today in the UK...I guess they tried computers on healthcare for 10 years and never made it work, after over $15Billion(USD) spent on it.

10 years later...for a smaller country with many decades of 'medical system' experience and they could not make it work.

NHS pulls the plug on its £11bn IT system

After nine years and with billions already spent, doomed computer system is abandoned

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/nhs-pulls-the-plug-on-its-11bn-it-system-2330906.html

The nine-year-old NHS computer project – the biggest civilian IT scheme ever attempted – has been in disarray since it missed its first deadlines in 2007. The project has been beset by changing specifications, technical challenges and clashes with suppliers, which has left it years behind schedule and way over cost.

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:06 | 4103690 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

WHY is software different?

Read, and weep: [quote]

An example of how a typical end-user specifies what kind of computer program they want you to design:

   Dear Mr. Architect:

please design and build me a house.  I'm not quite sure of what I need or  want in a house, so you should use your discretion.

   My new house should have between 2 and 45 bedrooms.  Just make sure the plans are such that bedrooms can be easily added or eliminated.  When you bring the blueprints to me, I'll make the final decision of what I want.   Also, bring me the cost breakdown for each configuration so that I can arbtrarily pick one.

   Keep in mind that the house I ultimately choose must cost less than the one in which I currently reside.  Make sure, however, that you correct all the deficiencies that exist in my current home.  I'd allow you to view my current house to help you understand and avoid the problems that I'm referring to, but I'm afraid that it may interfere with your creative abilities.

   Also keep in mind as you design this house that I wish to keep yearly maintainance costs as low as possible.  This should mean the incorporation of the latest technological advancements in siding & insulation.  If you choose not to specify aluminum siding, be prepared to explain in detail.

   Please make sure that modern design practices and the latest materials are used in constructing the house.  The house should be very nice.   However, be alerted that the kitchen should be designed to accommodate my 1952 Gibson refrigerator and any other items with which we don't wish to part.

   To assure that you are building the correct house for my family, make sure that you contact each of my children and in-laws.  My Mother-in-law will have very strong feelings about how the house ought to be designed since she visits us at least once a year.  Make sure that you weigh carefully all suggestions made by family members and make the right decisions.  I, however, retain the right to override any decisions you make.

   Please don't bother me with details right now.  Your job is to develop the overall plans for this house.  Get the big picture.  It's not appropriate at this time to be choosing such things as the color of the carpet, although you should keep in mind that my wife likes green.

   Also, do not worry at this time about acquiring the resources needed to build this house.  Your first priority is to develop detailed plans and specifications.  However, once I accept the plans, I'll expect to have the house under roof within 48 hours.

   While you are designing this house specifically for me, keep in mind that sooner or later I'll probably sell the house.  It should appeal to the largest number of potential buyers.  Please make sure, before you finalize the plans, that there is a consensus of the population in my area as to the desirability of the features included in the house.

   You are advised to look at my neighbor's house, which he constructed last year.  We like it a great deal because it has many features that we would like to have in our new home, particularly the 75-foot swimming pool.  With careful engineering I believe that you can design this into our new house without impacting the construction cost.

   Please prepare a complete set of blueprints.  I's not necessary at this time to do the real design since these blueprints will used only for construction bids.  Please be advised, though, that any resulting increase in the cost caused by future design changes will result in your getting your hands slapped.

   You must be thrilled to be working on such an interesting project such as this.  To be able to use new kinds of construction and to be given such freedom in design is something that doesn't happen very often.  Contact me as soon as possible with your design ideas.  I'm most enthusiastic in  seeing what you develop.
                                                  Sincerely,
 
                                               Prospective Client

   P.S.  My wife has just told me that she disagrees with many of the instructions that I've given you in this letter.  As the architect, it is your responsibility to resolve these issues.  I've tried in the past and  have been unable to accomplish this.  If you can't handle this, I'll have to look for a new architect.

   P.P.S.  Perhaps what I need is not a house at all, but rather, a travel trailer.  Please advise me as early as possible if this is the case.
[/quote]

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:57 | 4103527 Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

I've always liked Schiff's prescience, and now this:
'...Routine care is best paid for out-of-pocket by value conscious consumers. But Obamacare outlaws these plans, in favor of what amounts to prepaid medical treatment that shifts the cost of services to taxpayers. In such a system, patients have no incentive to contain costs...'.

Intelligent observers of this Obamacare$ for the insurance companies and his failed socialist credentials would be wise to remember Napoleon's remark:
'Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.'

This un-Affordable Care Act will implode. Just remember that it was time-serving incumbent CONgress that allowed it to happen.

'Revenge is a dish best served cold.'

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:00 | 4103531 Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

'Passing it beats reading it,' said that doyen of lazy CONgress, Pelosi.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:10 | 4103547 Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

A reply to HardlyZero here, as the computer won't allow it beneath his excellent comment:-

Britain is another failed socialist experiment as anyone who has lived there knows. Yesminster and Whitewash wage endless war, enrich themselves, steal taxpayer funded expenses, tax more - and deliver worse services, all with impunity. 

The Queen and her welfare family are pleased with this, as it secures their House of Saxe-Coburg Nazi supremacy. Plenty of circuses for the people, and less bread keeps the masses under the jackboot.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:21 | 4103573 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

And if you as so much as hit a home invader with a shoe you will be xharged with assault. Royalty has disarmed the populace and takes extreme measures to prevent them defending themselves under the guise of "safety."

Cuz they know what an armed and awakened populace does to hereditary privilege. Just ask Charles.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:39 | 4103623 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

If we just added our best and brightest to fix the website, how were the original contracts awarded to those who weren't?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 22:58 | 4103665 Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

Some shenanigans going on with the ZH website tonight, so again, I'll have to reply to another poster in a separate comment instead of directly under his name.

grid-b-gone, the answer to your question: the multi million $ contract for the website was given to a company headed by a Princeton girlfriend of Michelle Obama in a no bid deal where other companies were ignored.

That alone is cause for indictments of anyone who made the deal, in my opinion, given the obvious conflict of interests and malfeasance, waste of taxpayer money.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 23:00 | 4103673 Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

Okay, which one of you is posting over at Yahoo?

Impressive...

"For all of the 0bamacare's technical problems, at least one part is working on schedule. The law is systematically dismantling the individual insurance market, as its architects intended from the start.

The millions of Americans who are receiving termination notices because their current coverage does not conform to Health and Human Services Department rules may not realize this is by design. Maybe they trusted 0bama's repeated falsehood that people who liked their health plans could keep them. But Americans should understand that this month's mass cancellation wave has been the President's political goal since 2008. Liberals believe they must destroy the market in order to save it."

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:11 | 4103799 Trampy
Trampy's picture

Liberals believe they must destroy the market in order to save it."

Like doctors killing a patient to cure them,

and a country that kills its own citizens to try and save its owners.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:02 | 4103784 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Should be: The website is fixable, Obama isn't.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 00:03 | 4103790 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Hey, Obama!

You can have my low-deductible-comprehensive-health(-and-dental)-insurance when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:48 | 4103887 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Except Cigna already cancelled me.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:16 | 4103838 DrData02
DrData02's picture

 10/29/2013 11:52 PM  CST (Chicago)

Healthcare.gov is down.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:47 | 4103885 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Yes.  GRRRRRRRRRR.

This needs to be documented as there is a timeline.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 01:53 | 4103882 JohnG
JohnG's picture

 

 

Fuck these shits.

I've been trying to enroll for days.

Spin spin spin.....timeout.

JTDC WTF??????

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 02:37 | 4103917 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

In my imagination, all these right-wing rants on Zerohedge come from Todd's Uncle Jack in Breaking Bad. I love the show, but I'm so glad I don't live there.

Single payer. It's science, bitch.

 

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 03:56 | 4103958 akak
akak's picture

It's sad and pathetic that you proudly wear the chains and shackles imposed upon you by your overlords, but fuck you and damn you to Hell, and the millions of unthinking, spineless sheep like you, who drag the rest of us unwillingly into your paternalistic and Orwellian nightmare world.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 04:27 | 4103976 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

Orwellian? Let me share with you a quote from George Orwell, that great English writer:

"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it."

Unthinking and spineless as I may be, I do not feel the shackles on my back simply because I do not wish to see my fellow man die in the gutter without lending a helping hand.

You may call it a paternalistic nightmare world; most of the world regards it simply as basic humanity.

Try to understand something about what Orwell was about before you take his name in vain.

 

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 02:45 | 4103921 Cdn1
Cdn1's picture

Obviously the tax penalty needs to go up for those who don't buy insurance. One of many bait and switch aspects of ACA.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 04:29 | 4103978 dale digler
dale digler's picture

I was all for Obamacare until I found out that I had to pay for it! Damn!

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