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US Responds To France: You Were Spying On Yourself

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Following the humiliation of having a US ambassador summoned so he would explain the spying conducted by the US government, in liberated Paris of all places (because while the NSA spying on your own citizens is an absolute travesty and trampling of basic human rights and smacks of Stalingrad circa 1960, spying abroad is permitted, accepted and largely forgiven by all the developed nations - after all everyone does it) the US has struck back in the most poetic way imaginable: it said that whatever phone records the NSA acquired were passed on to it by the local spy agencies of none other than France and Spain. The implication is simple: the local people understandably furious at the US and screaming blood, have just been given a far more convenient target at which to fume: their own governments.

The WSJ reports how the spy scandal tables have just turned:

The phone records collected by the Europeans—in war zones and other areas outside their borders—then were shared with the NSA, U.S. officials said, as part of efforts to help protect American and allied troops and civilians.

 

The new disclosure upends the version of events as reported in Europe in recent days, and puts a spotlight on the role of European intelligence services that work closely with the NSA, suggesting a greater level of European involvement in global surveillance.

 

The U.S. has so far been silent about the role of European partners in these collection efforts so as to protect relationships. These efforts are separate, however, from the U.S. spying programs that targeted dozens of foreign leaders, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose phones were tapped for years by the NSA.

 

The NSA declined to comment, as did the Spanish foreign ministry and a spokesman for the French Embassy in Washington. A spokesman for Spain's intelligence service said: "Spanish law impedes us from talking about our procedures, methods and relationships with other intelligence services."

Of course, this is a lie too:

After publication of the report in Le Monde last week, the U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said that it contained "inaccurate and misleading information regarding U.S. foreign intelligence activities."

 

He said the allegation that the NSA collected more than 70 million "recordings of French citizens' telephone data" is false, but he provided no further explanation of what the data in the documents showed.

However, that doesn't matter because in the New Normal globalized world everyone else is lying too, and the only prerogative is to keep the sheep happily grazing and not thinking too hard about what really goes on behind the scenes.

Officials privately have said the disclosures in the European press put the U.S. in a difficult bind.

 

The U.S. wants to correct the record about the extent of NSA spying but doing so in this case would require it to expose its allies' intelligence operations, the officials say, which could compromise cooperation in the future as well as ongoing intelligence efforts.

And for the "greater good" this can't possibly happen, as who knows what level of theft and criminality within the governments would be exposed. So the best option is merely to scapegoat, who else, Snowden himself, and to suggest that whatever the documents showed is not accurate and the NSA knows best.

U.S. officials said the Snowden-provided documents had been misinterpreted and actually show phone records that were collected by French and Spanish intelligence agencies, and then shared with the NSA, according to officials briefed on those discussions.

 

U.S. intelligence officials studied the document published by Le Monde earlier this month and have determined that it wasn't assembled by the NSA.

 

Rather, the document appears to be a slide that was assembled based on NSA data received from French intelligence, a U.S. official said.

Based on an analysis of the document, the U.S. concluded that the phone records the French had collected were actually from outside of France, and then were shared with the U.S. The data don't show that the French spied on their own people inside France.

 

U.S. intelligence officials haven't seen the documents cited by El Mundo but the data appear to come from similar information the NSA obtained from Spanish intelligence agencies documenting their collection efforts abroad, officials said.

And because the NSA never lies, everyone must believe them.... must believe them.... must believe them...

In conclusion: "Public disclosure of European complicity in the collection efforts would likely spark domestic outrage in those countries against their own governments, and could threaten cooperation with the U.S."

Great - more domestic outrage in countries that have 60% youth unemployment is just what the European recovery doctor ordered.

 

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Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:41 | 4102559 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

If your friend jumps off a bridge...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:23 | 4102688 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

France, Spain, welcome to the "Under My Bus" club. As always it is well deserved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfL-Oj1rQ-c

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:49 | 4102751 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Governments spying reminds me of the when I was a kid...

Little girl down the street said "I will show you mine if you.... "

Actually the US can skirt the law by having other countries spy on us then share intel. The spector of accountability.....

Snowden's releases over time will create blowback from the masses. Just like the tide coming in, it will come.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:23 | 4102836 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

We spy on french citizens for france. They spy on usa citizens for our government. Neat way to evade the bill of rights.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:26 | 4103434 Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

All this spying, yet no one knows how McDonalds makes French Fries.

Wed, 10/30/2013 - 04:09 | 4103967 Harrison
Harrison's picture

My understanding is that they use real French. Otherwise it would be false labeling.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:49 | 4102560 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

One method of defence is to simply deflect the attack and say, "But look over there! They're bad guys too!".

Will the citizens of these various countries buy into it? I don't think so. Not this time around.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:55 | 4102607 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Given that "citizen" is a slave title, it's not so much what they buy, as it is what they're being sold.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:59 | 4102623 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Not this time around

The European are as deparate to believe in the goodness of Merica as the Red and Blue Team dumbasses are.

Ideological bullshit takes a long time to disappear because humans need bullshit to survive;  politics and religion are built on this fact.  

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:10 | 4102943 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

"...but look over there,they're bad guys too."

That's how repubicans and democraps always do it.

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:42 | 4102562 Rusty Diggins
Rusty Diggins's picture

All hail Hypnotoad!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:56 | 4102564 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

And because the NSA never lies,

everyone must believe them....

must believe them....

must believe them...

Spying on ourselves.

Ok...

Yes... 

That makes perfect sense.

We were spying on ourselves.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:58 | 4102617 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Yes!!! Penis went there!

And there!

And there too!

Penis went EVERYWHERE!!!!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:45 | 4102715 falak pema
falak pema's picture

We fought on the beaches of Montezuma's gold in Mali, all for Pax Americana, we spilt french blood to uproot Q-daffy like we were the Count of Morcef in Jennina; like a page out of "the Count of Monte Cristo"...France fighting for western values to sully the princess of Jennina, daughter of Q daffy whom we pillaged for 50 million euros of contribution to election of new king of France; all for the Benghazi cabal that turned dagger and killed the Roman proconsul; but that's another story of Oil's arabian  "thousand and one nights" of Pax Americana mayhem. We have desecrated Scherezade's legacy to  Bagdad's House of Wisdom by massacring its population like we were the new Halagu, something we French opposed in what seems another age of Bush's western despotism. 

Now we are caught in the fantastic maze of financial cum NSA mayhem, signature song of US demise in the face of history. Why look at the worm we have become, why not look at the hornet's nest that new Rome of West has become?

There lies the future of western civilization's fall. We all fall but some fall more than others. Meager consolation.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:47 | 4102762 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

This will inevitably lead to the awkward moment in which they surrender to themselves.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:43 | 4102566 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Right, because even though the NSA does exactly the same thing in the US does not mean that domestic outrage is likely....

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:46 | 4102575 pods
pods's picture

Governments are really overstaying their welcome.

pods

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:59 | 4102626 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

+1 (just filed that comment in the 'truer words never spoken' file)

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:58 | 4102590 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Reminds me of a bully who says 'Why are you punching yourself in the face!'

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:58 | 4102622 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Stop hitting yourself!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:51 | 4102595 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Only malcontent hippies who hate America, and the troop, would be against the NSA spying.

We're surrounded by turbine wearin' Muslims and these hippies want us to sing Kum-bi-ya.

Get a job ya goddamn hippies, and get a hair cut.  Love it or leave it hippies!!!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:49 | 4102891 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I know of at least (2) Kum-bi-ya singing hippies that sold out and became the system they denounced and hated .  But what difference does it make at this point.

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnypictures/ig/Funny-Clinton-Pictur...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:47 | 4103028 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

 

 

"Work within the system" was the catchphrase for the creepy, budding totalitarians.

The "live and let live" and "do your own thing" hipsters are enemies of the state now.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:09 | 4102935 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

<--- for turbine wearin' Muslims

<--- for turban wearin' Muslims

 

BTW, I'm all for Door #1.  NotARealAmerican is clearly against them.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:39 | 4103005 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

I've always stood for the urbane turbine crowd.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:52 | 4102596 fooshorter
fooshorter's picture

EDIT:

 

http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2013/08/01/obama-dozen-scandals-counting/

 

25+ Scandels in second term alone...

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:51 | 4102600 Devotional
Devotional's picture

this video pretty much explains the world and its stock markets.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zUUtf7gOe8

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:54 | 4102606 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

I just flashed on the original "Day of the Jackel" when the inspector explains how he found the spy to the committee.

 

"I tapped ALL your phones!"

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:57 | 4102614 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

All upvotes to the Hypno Toad.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:58 | 4102615 Sleepless Knight
Sleepless Knight's picture

Total Bullshit. Any lame excuse to try to cover their tracks. Keep it commin' Snowden!!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 15:59 | 4102624 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Seems like the bus that the few remaining allies were just throwned under, backed up 5x before moving on...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:43 | 4102750 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

I bet the USA has offered PRISM to every country in Europe and we are managing their metadata collections and sharing the results. No wonder the Brit government was so eager to smash some computers.

Having a collaborative agreement with france to manage and collect metadata is just the tip of the iceberg. I bet we do it for the Germans and everyone.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:00 | 4102625 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Most Feared Animal in all the world! Mexican Staring Frog of Southern Sri Lanka...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:01 | 4102627 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Is it just me, or does it seem the only explanation is they're doing everything they can to ensure a total world war?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:08 | 4102637 Cobalt Shiva
Cobalt Shiva's picture

The NSA's problem isn't so much that we were spying on allies (trust me, our allies spy on us, too--I've seen some of the problems that come up as a result), but that we were caught doing so.

NSA spying on American citizens: Bad

NSA spying on foreign governments: Uh, that's their freakin' JOB!

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:26 | 4102696 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

We arent spying on france. We are spying for france. The NSA is proly the subcontractor to the french government and offered them a deal on PRISM if they let us manage it.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:15 | 4102639 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Have any of you ever seen the Russian consulate in San Francisco?   It just "happens" to be on hill in line with one of the major microwave transmission routes in the US.   And the roof is COVERED with microwave antennas.  

The US response that "everybody does it" is more than just a rationalization.   Everybody DOES do it.   The "were little lost lambs ba ba ba" act of the Euro countries is getting a little old.   EVERYBODY DOES DO IT.   We just do it better.   That's what really frosts their Euro nuts.

USA

USA

USA

America Fuck yeh....

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:42 | 4102748 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

Noob: uWave is so passe ... fiber is the choice nowadays .. besides, until you know how a 'voice' circuit is provisioned and set up for a call under SS7 the voice data is WORTHLESS ...

 

 

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:56 | 4102902 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Russia has been an enemy state for most of the last hundred years, so it would be understandable to still monitor them, but France? Are we still worried about a communist invasion? Its seems that horse is pretty well out of the barn. Maybe that is where Obama is getting all of his socialist planning tips.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 19:34 | 4103140 CH1
CH1's picture

All States are enemies. They have the morality of the most brutish beasts. At any given moment, 20 of 200 are sending the boys who obey them to kill the other state's boys.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:28 | 4102681 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

France did do it to themselves.

The Evo Morales saga showed coordination among air traffic controllers in several countries and a spanish ambassador who requested to come on his plane for a "courtesy call."

We probably gather the france metadata as a subcontractor to the frenxh government.

The intelligence services are balls deep in each other

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 16:47 | 4102761 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

All the turds fighting each other to not go down that toilette first

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:17 | 4102800 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

According to a British newspaper, it was Israel spying on France not the U.S. Of course the Zionist controlled press in the U.S. would never report this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477013/Was-ISRAEL-hacking-milli...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:13 | 4102950 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

What's the difference?  It's the SAME fucking Elite running the shit-show.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:07 | 4102804 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Damn. I bet the real story is that we are managing metadata collections for the Brazilians and other SA governments too.

They are shocked. Shocked! To know that meta data is being collected there.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:06 | 4102807 monad
monad's picture

Benghazi

John Christopher Stevens

Sean Smith

Tyrone Woods

Glen Doherty

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:52 | 4102894 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I think that is considered collateral damage. The occasional breaking of eggs in the process of making an omelet. We are as incidental to the process as a billion dollars here and a hundred billion there. As Hillary would say "what is the point?"

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:36 | 4102863 Super Broccoli
Super Broccoli's picture

oh well this will just never hit MSM in europe anyway ...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 17:49 | 4102892 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

 If its OK to spy on our allies and its OK for them to spy on us, is it OK if we the people of America spy on our leaders? What is the law and if there is a law is it being followed? I mean if we justify spying on our enemies because they are a potential threat, by what excuse are we spying on our allies and is that excuse valid to legally spy on our own government? Is the only law in who has the greater power? If they are willing to admit that, then we are officially fucked.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:05 | 4102929 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

They are governing the planet through force.  We're not even in charge, think of the US as one of their colonies.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:23 | 4102970 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

If we can't or won't fight back and we do not resist, does that officially define us as slaves?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:39 | 4103007 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Debt slaves.  I think at some point we'll have to choose between being broke and free or maintained and enslaved.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:49 | 4103033 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

You have to wonder at what point durring the process of capture, transport on ships and eventual sale at auction did African slaves REALIZE they were fucked?  I don't know but I wonder how we will know it is time or too late?  We see what happened to Jews who continued to capitulate to the Nazi's until they were herded into ovens. I think every civilization has had these moments.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 19:38 | 4103155 CH1
CH1's picture

at some point we'll have to choose...

... whether we'll continue to obey our oppressors.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:24 | 4102972 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

"Do what thou will!" - Lucifer's one and only commandment to his church

It's the New Normal.  Heaven help us -- cause we sure as shit are too damn stupid, lazy, scared, disloyal and disorganized to help ourselves.

Sheep graze.  Wolves eat.  Jesus raises lambs, Satan raises wolves.  Hedge accordingly. 

Or start a new religion that is not conceived by or run by the same 'people' who gave us... "All this".  E.g.: "Hail Thor & Odin!  Death to our enemies!"

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:42 | 4103020 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Hedge as you will but none of us are getting out alive. I keep wondering...do we wither away or go out fighting? While I have done well in prepping for the worse, I'm really not sure if I am mentally prepared to do what it may take. I grew up in an era when they sold bomb shelters in shopping center parking lots, which gave cause to thinking...why would you want to survive? If surviving means I must watch others die, by my hand, others or their own, will it be worth it? There is kind of a sick excitment when watching gathering storm clouds but as they get closer and the wind picks up and the presence of it is nearly on top of you the excitement turns to dread. This is how it's starting to feel to me.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:17 | 4102958 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Hold on. America spies on everybody, US citizens and European citizens alike (and the rest) but they get the info on the latter from the European countries themselves (or so does the NSA say). But do European countries get data on US citizens from the US? And do European countries spy on the phone calles of Obama? It does not sound completely reciprocal. I mean hey....no fair.

Anyway, on both sides of the Atlantic we are living in a control grid and the purpose is to create a panopticon with abiding and self censoring sheep.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:25 | 4102973 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Does that mean I can't say....baahhh anymore?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:36 | 4102997 Joe A
Joe A's picture

In Europe sheep say 'beehhh'.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 18:32 | 4102988 Darth Mul
Darth Mul's picture

It wasn’t the US government breaking into the private communications of former French President Nicolas Sarkozy, according to top secret documents unearthed by Edward Snowden and published in Le Mondeit was the Israelis.

A four-page internal précis regarding a visit to Washington by two top French intelligence officials denies the NSA or any US intelligence agency was behind the May 2012 attempted break-in – which sought to implant a monitoring device inside the Elysee Palace’s communications system – but instead fingers the Israelis, albeit indirectly:

The visit by Barnard Barbier, head of the DGSE’s technical division, and Patrick Pailloux, a top official with France’s National Information Systems Security, was intended to elicit an explanation for the break-in, which the French media blamed on the Americans. The NSA’s inquiries to the British, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, and other US allies all turned up negative. However, one such close ally wasn’t asked.

As Glenn Greenwald and Jacques Follorou, citing the NSA document, put it in their Le Monde piece: the NSA "’intentionally did not ask either the Mossad or the ISNU (the technical administration of the Israeli services) whether they were involved’ in this espionage operation against the head of the French government."

An interesting omission, to say the least, one justified by the author of the memo with some odd phraseology: "France is not an approved target for joint discussion by Israel and the United States." Meaning – exactly what? This is a job for Marcy Wheeler! But I’ll hazard a guess: the US is well aware of Israeli spying on France and wants nothing to do with it, and/or the author of the memo is simply invoking some obscure protocol in order to justify going any farther.

...

 

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/10/27/israel-and-the-nsa-partner...

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:10 | 4103236 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Just don't expect to see any of this reported or discussed in the main stream corporate media in the United States. The Zionist "cone of silence" has come down over this information.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 19:02 | 4103065 zipit
zipit's picture

Makes me think of this Google Bomb: http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-frenchmilitaryvicto... How do you count the French Revolution, though?  Is that a victory or defeat?

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:35 | 4103296 Reaper
Reaper's picture

They spied. They lied. Now, you can trust them.

Tue, 10/29/2013 - 20:47 | 4103320 billsbest
billsbest's picture
Question: "Has Obama Been/Is Wiretapping & Listening-in to his High Military Officers?" Why not? How do we know? ...then upon finding out an officer would not make a loyal comrade in a Fascist or Marxist Amerika they are terminated on trumped-up charges for a trivial matter. Is there a coup under way?
Tue, 10/29/2013 - 21:05 | 4103370 tvdog
tvdog's picture

Great - more domestic outrage in countries that have 60% youth unemployment is just what the European recovery doctor ordered.

They need to print more. For the youth.

 

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