This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Guest Post: Are Constitutional Conservatives Really The Boogeyman?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt-Market blog,

Power, or perceived power, is a viciously addictive narcotic. It doesn't matter what political or philosophical background a person hails from, very few have the self discipline or the self awareness necessary to relinquish the trappings of power once they have tasted it. This truth applies to conservatives as much as it applies to liberals.

I began my early political life as a Democrat, and until I came to understand the nature of the false left right paradigm in 2004, my view of the negative within government was slanted entirely against the GOP. When a finally grasped the fantasy of the two party process, I did not let go of my criticisms of the Republican hierarchy as much as accept the fact that the same criticisms applied to the Democrats as well. They are, ultimately, the same entity with the same exact ideological goals hidden by cosmetic differences in shallow rhetoric. I have no interest whatsoever in perpetuating the false left/right paradigm, or giving undue credit to the GOP.

However, as stated earlier, power is a drug, one which the so-called “left” has been hooked on since the Obama Administration took its seat in the White House. While the Republicans have much to answer for (the Bush years are a nightmarish example), it is the Democratic Party, and those who blindly identify with it, that must be addressed today. It is they who are now directly feeding the elitist machine, giving it momentum, and aiding in the destruction of the American economy and culture. It is their madness and thirst for control that is being exploited by the establishment to demonize legitimate activists who seek Constitutional transparency (the only people in this country today who understand the bigger picture and who the real enemies are) thus undermining any chance our society has for a free and prosperous future.

A new propaganda theater has exploded in mainstream media outlets and the liberal side of the blogosphere spectrum. This initiative centers on a not so subtle attempt to connect “Tea Party Conservatives” (basically lumping all people who espouse limited government ideals and constitutional principles under one easy to marginalize label) to any and all of our nation's fiscal and political problems. The debt ceiling debate has added a new dimension to this defamation program, sending leftist talking heads into a bloodthirsty frenzy akin to a Bolshevik street mob. Constitutional conservatives have been compared to “extremists”, “separatists”, “new southern confederates”, “traitors”, “saboteurs”, and “domestic enemies of the United States”. Here is just a sample of the MSM hate parade:

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/robert-reich-tea-party-americans-dont-traitors-our-system-government

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/republican-extremism-and-the-lessons-of-history-20131010

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-how-republicans-can-sideline-the-tea-party/2013/10/18/01c24536-377c-11e3-80c6-7e6dd8d22d8f_story.html

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/07/tea_party_extremism_has_me_worried_tammy_baldwin_talks_to_salon/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb6LMB2FX3w

There is a particular brand of rabid shameless zealotry to this rhetoric that I have not seen since the days of the Neo-Con drive to invade Iraq. It's worse in many ways, in fact, because it attempts to link political dissent with “treason” in a very dangerous manner, and sets the stage for an “acceptable level” of totalitarianism. These are the same people who fought tooth and nail against identical tactics only a decade ago, and now, they have happily (and hypocritically) adopted the nefarious methods as their own.

We have gone beyond mere talk into a realm where political witch-hunts may become an Orwellian reality, and it is the “Tea Party” that the establishment wants to burn at the stake. Even now, federal agents are training active duty military personnel to view Constitutional conservatives as “terrorists” bent on annihilating America:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/23/does-army-consider-christians-tea-party-terror-threat/

Because of this danger, I am forced to dismantle the ludicrous arguments of my former party, and expose the vile and dishonest nature of their motivations. Here is why the loyal left has become a far greater threat to the safety of our country than they could ever hope to paint conservative activists. Here are the reasons why they hate us...

Why Neo-Liberals Distrust Limited Government Champions

In my time as a Democrat I did not always agree with the party line. I believed that if a massive government system was an inevitability, then it SHOULD at the very least exist to help, not harm or control, the American public. I never attached myself to the notion that government was the answer to every crisis. Many liberals, however, do assume that government can be tamed, and if they gain total control of the system through political maneuvering it will somehow naturally gravitate towards humanitarian concerns. Government, in their minds, is a tool they can exploit, when in reality government is a self contained entity that exploits them as tools.

The great downfall of orthodox Republican culture is the blind faith it commonly places in the corporate world and the vestiges of big-business. They believe free markets actually exist in America today (they don't), and that the captains of industry are what drive our country forward. Liberals, on the other hand, also believe that free markets exist in America today (they don't), and that these “uncontrolled” financial organizations are the cause of all our social grief. Liberals are correct to be suspicious of the corporate oligarchy; the professed goal of many banking elites of dominant globalization is certainly a threat to us all.

The problem is, liberals don't really take issue with the concept of globalization, per se. In fact, many of them love the philosophy. They just don't like the idea of “conservatives” being at the helm of such vast change. Liberals attach themselves to government and rabidly defend it because they falsely imagine that government can be used to stifle or destroy what they assume to be a conservative dominated corporate machine. They want the destruction of American sovereignty. They want a system that dictates and micro-manages the citizenry. But, they want that system to operate on their terms and enforce their particular world views, which they believe not only politically correct, but sacrosanct.

In the minds of many average liberals, government is the only recourse to affect their battle against corporate dominance. When faced with a person or group of people espousing the principles of limited government, reduced spending, reduced taxes, and cuts to bureaucracy, liberals immediately presume that those people are seeking to support the corporate oligarchy by de-fanging government and removing their greatest weapon. Tea Party and Liberty Movement conservatives do indeed seek to de-fang government, but we have also broken from the Republican orthodoxy and recognized that government actually colludes with corporate elites on the most vital issues. We understand that they are part of the same monstrosity, and so, we are just as uncompromising in our fight against big government as we are against unaccountable business. This confuses liberals who are so acclimated to the traditional boundaries of debate between Left and Right.

They don't know how to classify or pigeonhole us, and they certainly don't have the capacity to argue with us on a rational level because half the story has gone over their heads. And so, they follow the natural human inclination, which is to hate and despise what one does not understand and what one cannot quantify. In the eyes of bewildered Democrats (and some elitist Republicans) we are extremists, because they have never been confronted before with people who are so fully committed and immovable in their principles. Uncompromising opponents, unshakeable opponents, are the most terrifying opponents.

The Left's Inclination Towards Collectivism

The liberal subculture is permeated with frightened people. They are frightened of authority yet infatuated by authority. They are frightened of independence yet feign independence. They are frightened of the blunt truth in serious matters, yet fascinated by the blunt truth as a form of comedic anesthesia. They like to imagine themselves as socially heroic but they have never had the concrete courage required to achieve a truly heroic deed, which is why they constantly argue that state designated officials are the only people qualified to manage or defend the public interest. It is much easier to hand responsibility over to a man in a uniform who may or may not do anything proactive than it is to take responsibility by one's self.

One of the most off-putting character traits inherent among the many Democrats I've met along the way is a complete incapacity to stand alone against a dilemma. The average liberal is, I'm sorry to say, invariably weak and always searching for someone else to handle their messes for them. Their love of government stems in large part from their desperate need to find a parental figure to cradle them, or a group structure that will reinforce their beliefs without question.

I have rarely if ever seen any substantial measure of individual action or resolve amongst liberals. The activism of the left almost always gravitates towards asking government for permission with as many pleading hands as possible, or asking government to repair a malfunction it created, or begging the system to PLEASE respect their rights. To suggest to them that perhaps they should compete with the system, build their own more honest social paradigms as individuals, defy criminal authority even at the risk of their own lives, or actually physically fight back, is a waste of time.

The liberal activist's dream scenario? A safe majority of the population suddenly and magically standing up together with one mind to achieve a singular goal while facing no meaningful pain, struggle, or risk. They sit around waiting for that day, when we all dawn our V For Vendetta masks and march on Washington D.C. together while the Plutocrats stand down in silent defeat. It is a pointless fantasy with little to no historical precedent.

This is why they treat Constitutional conservatives with disdain. They are incredulous when we state that we will fight even if we are the so-called “fringe”. They are shocked and unsettled when we state that the mainstream view is irrelevant. They laugh at the concept of independent action against the system regardless of the risks simply because they know personally, deep down, that they don't have the balls to make the same stand, and so snide ridicule is their only safety mechanism.

This cancerous attachment to the collective is what makes the “left” so easily manipulated by political elites, who play on that which they fear most to lose - their socialist safety net. The existence of an ideological movement like Constitutional conservatism which openly and defiantly pursues an end to government sponsored collectivism and the crutch of economic socialization is the ultimate boogeyman for the liberal front.

The Liberal Land Of Infinite Comfort

The recent debt ceiling debate was incredibly effective in driving home the insurmountable differences between hardcore Neo-Liberals and proponents of limited government. This conflict is only going to become more pronounced as the next debt debate approaches in the Spring of 2014. The roughly 25% to 30% of the U.S. population that still worships the Obama Administration despite all logic is more than enough cannon fodder for the establishment to throw at us.

They believe we are out to destroy the nation because we “aren't getting our way” on Obamacare. They believe we have placed our political desires ahead of the good of the collective. They believe we are self absorbed extremists; mad bombers strapped with TNT and ready to take everyone to hell with us. They believe our entire movement is a hologram created by the mysterious Koch Brothers – Libertarians with money now lampooned by liberals as secret corporate Decepticons responsible for grassroots activist initiatives that started long before the Koch Brothers ever put money into them. The fairytale is flourishing in their minds, and we are the villains.

More than anything, Liberals want a future of unlimited ease. Some are motivated by a desire to help others, but many are motivated by a desire to help themselves. In either case, they must understand that infinite government growth and infinite government spending will NEVER get them what they want. No matter how hard they wish for it, socialist utopianism will always fail. Why? All government is inherently flawed, because all government is administrated by inherently flawed people.

Constitutional conservatives don't hate Obamacare because we don't want people to have healthcare. We hate Obamacare because it is a horrible solution to a problem that needs a working solution. We hate Obamacare because it makes the existing problem worse, not better (as the past couple weeks of bureaucratic failure have shown).

We haven't abandoned the general good of this country, but we do demand that the founding principles of freedom, independence, and limited government that built this country be considered a priority. There is no “general good” without foundations of honor, reason, and transparency. If liberals are suggesting that the greater good requires us to ignore conscience, reality, and basic mathematics, then I will have to disagree, and I am willing to put everything on the line to defend that position. Are they willing to do the same?

As far as the Koch Bros. are concerned, I don't take orders from them, and I don't know anyone in the movement who does. I've also seen no indication that the Koch Bros have any desire to give orders to anyone in the movement. We do what we do because we BELIEVE in what we do, not because we get paid for what we do. If the Koch Bros didn't exist, the limited government movement would continue on without missing a beat. Let's direct our energies into the legitimate conspiracy of globalization and stop wasting our time with made-up conspiracies perpetuated by the mainstream media, shall we?

Constitutional conservatives have been the only people attempting to inform the American public of the facts surrounding our current fiscal crisis. Some have been doing it for decades. Many of us have been doing it since before the average liberal was even aware that a crisis existed. We are trying to help them, even though we disagree with them on numerous fundamentals.

The bottom line is, whether Obamacare is successfully implemented or not, whether the debt ceiling is raised again or not, whether the Left passes every agenda on its list or not, our system is broken and it is going to collapse. There is no way around it. More debt and more fiat printing means stagflationary collapse. Default and austerity means stagflationary collapse. If liberals want to place blame for this conundrum, then they should focus on the people who actually set the original fire – international and central bankers.

To my former political ideologues, I do not expect most of you to shift to a Liberty Movement perspective. I know all too well that you already think you have the whole of the world figured out and the rest of us are simply to ignorant to grasp your liberal insights. But I do ask that you remember what you read here today. File it away under “Tea Party Propaganda” if you want, but never forget. Your ambitions for a big government you can control will end in disaster. Your willingness to scapegoat Constitutionalists will backfire. The system you deify will turn on you. And, the fake power you think you have gained in the past five years will disappear just as quickly as it materialized.

If you want to avoid being caught in the tides of history with your proverbial pants down, or being used by elitists like pawns in a brutal game of global chess, consider quitting the system entirely and adopting a more independent position. That is what I did, and I can't imagine ever going back. Often it is the philosophies most despised by the mainstream that end up being the most right. The boogeymen of the present sometimes become the heroes of the future.

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:05 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Constitutional "Conservatives" or Constitution Conservatives?

How many Constitutional "Conservatives" like having the government regulate the male pecker or think Big-OldFart Medicare is ok socialism?

"Conservatives"...   what a crock.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

"Conservatives"...   what a crock.

A lot of conservative are decent but slightly confused folks. (Confusion being the unstated goal of politics.)

The answer is to improve these folks, not to trash them.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:14 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

The true libertarians (R Paul type, beggaring terms, here, no doubt) and to some extent the Tea Partyites for their fiscal and monetary designs (forget their social crap) are all that's left standing at this moment between the growing nightmare in which we currently reside and the Book Of Revelations that the statists wish to bring to reality.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

You got that right knuckles...the thin blue line so to speak!!!!  I dare say we disagree on much between my TEA and true Libertarians, problem is the statist RINO's are there to ruin things.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:27 | Link to Comment spine001
spine001's picture

The only problem with your article is that you fail to address the legalized corruption in intrinsic in our government system, where laws go to the highest bidder and bidding wars benefiting politicians wth no incentive whatsoever to solve problems, quite the contrary. Until this is addressed and resolved nothing will work.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

There is no Book of Revelations, knukles.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 21:39 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

OK OK OK So it's the Revelaton to John

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I dunno CH1, see my comments below?  I doubt we are far off, are we?  Pragmatic, common sense prevails you see.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1000  

Libertarian-type conservatives might be the only only ones who can save this country.

 

If it is possible to save America at all...

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Damn straight.  In a drunken dream/haze last evening I realized the awful truth that politicians need to put a letter next to their name on the polling rosters.  The leter means nothing and the politician must say to us that the letter means nothing and that it is the person and the content of the person that matters stating clearly what they believe in and we must demand a robust debate and answer/question session, multiple times over.  We cannot accept blankets riddled with disease any longer.  If you're a communist, say you're a communist, if you're a constitutionalist, say it and love it, if you are mush say you are mush, we will one day bea ble to see through the fog.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  The answer is to improve them, not to trash them.

Unfortunately, the majority of humans like Big-Gov, as long as it annoys those they don't like.  

The Red Team "Conservatives" are nothing but Big-Gov authority worshipping fascists who love living off of manly Big-Gov scams.   The ONLY difference between the "Liberals" and "Conservatives" is in girly annoying oppressive government vs manly annoying oppressive government.

This is a brain function.   People are born with "Conservative" or "Liberal" OCD.   It's just how their brain works.   That's why there's old-testament people and new-testament people, kick-ass daddy people and smothering-mommy people, paranoid about outsiders, guilt ridden about wealth,  just how our brains are wired.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

NO SIR!!! NotaREAL...see my comments below.  What you describe are RINO's, and there are plenty of them, they are progressives (fabian socialists), a wolf in sheep's clothing.

We are for the same things you are, some are more hawkish, I will admit that much.  I say we live with reason, MIC is way to big, just as the welfare state is too big.  Cuts to ALL govt is in order!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

^--- Yes, what Abi said!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:37 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

It's too late fuckers...give up now

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:01 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Or go to Peru...  AMFs!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Quitters never win, and winners never quit!  I am here for the haul, to the last drop, nowhere else to go to or wanna go to, might as well make a last stand somewhere, my birthplace!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:13 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Sometimes you have to run though.  Jews in Hitler's Germany for example.  My inclination is to stay and fight, but I have not made my mind up.   We have a Plan B for better or worse.  Let's hope it does not come to that.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Cuts to ALL govt is in order!

I agree.   Too bad you and I don't run the world!    We'd get the mess straightened out in no time.

(Damn,  if only I was sociopathic enough to be king...) 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:27 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

With the help of "progressives" we have one...King O'Barry.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:51 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: With the help of "progressives" we have one...King O'Barry.

FFCS, with the help of the "Conservatives" and "Liberals" we have more government 60+ years.    I don't see the "Conservatives" offering to drowned Big-MIC or Big-AG in the bathtub.     Hell, the only thing they can think to drowned is Amtrak and NPR. 

NOTHING is MORE duplicitous that a small government "Conservative".    That's not socialism, that's an investment in our children's FUTURE.   Assholes.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:07 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Ahhh, I see what the problem is.

My definition of liberal is different. Thats why I use quotes around progessive. A progressive is a statist-socialist in my book. A real liberal only asks the government to keep others from stealing their shit or infringing on their rights.

Two completely different concepts & terms.

But turning back to King O'Barry, name one "conservative" who signed a law and then set about exempting his cronies & corporations from its impact by fiat.

I'd be curious who you come up with ;-)

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:26 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

nmewn, I draw no such lines of distiction, today's Amerikan Liberal is a socialist.  They are blood sucking parasites, and will kill the host!  They regulate, tax, spend, decry and decree, mandates for all, generalize, demonize and rule over those below them.  Make no mistake, King Obama, is just that, the Teflon Don had nuttin' on dis guy!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:31 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Amerikan Liberal is a socialist

The majority of people are either socialist ("Liberals") or fascists ("Conservatives"): girly Big-Gov or manly Big-Gov.    Happily thinking their own favorite scam isn't really socialism, it's an investment in our children's future.

I don't want any Big-Gov.    But,  libertarians are a small minority.   as are liberals (without quotes).  

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:26 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  name one "conservative"

Oh jeezz, now the pointless lists.   Look, you're either a Libertarians or a statist.   I'm a libertarian.

Here's a list for ya...   How many "Conservatives" are living off of these Big-Gov scams and are duplicitous enough to keep doing so: Big-Ag, Big-MIC, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Energy, Big-Ed, Big-House, Big-Fin, Big-OldFart, Big-OldFartHealthcare, Big-AntiDrug, & Big-PoliceState.

"Liberals" and "Conservatives" are both duplicitious bastards.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:46 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

So you can't name one? I can't either.

The difference between "progessives" & conservatives is their integrity. There is no doubt that a conservative can & does lie but when caught, they have a deep sense of shame and remorse (and relief) because they knew its wrong from the beginning. They seek redemption and their honor back...just like a libertarian.

A "progressive" feels no such shame as they never had any honor, integrity, dignity or even the simple human decency to admit they are wrong begin with.

It is what it is.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 01:34 | Link to Comment whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

"Oh jeezz, now the pointless lists.   Look, you're either a Librtarians or a statist.   I'm a libertarian."

I am too.

Let me put my spin on that:  You either want the corporations to run everything or you want the .gov to run everything... that's the usual left vs. right argument, right?  But, the more important argument that must be stated is that both our current left and right parties are BOTH statists.  There is no party that is anti-authoritarian (libertarian) that is in the fight that can win at the moment.  ( I hope that changes though )

Both parties hate anyone who would want to restrain their authority.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 02:23 | Link to Comment John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Look, actions speak louder than words.  Review your history so you understand what conservative really means.  Ask yourself the following:

1)Would the FED and the income tax exist if Wilson and the democrats weren't in charge of government at the time.

2)Would Social Security and countless other unconstituation goverment functions exist if FDR and the Dems weren't controlling government at the time.

3)Would medicare, medicaid and all other welfare as we know it exist if Goldwater and the Rep had won in 1964 instead of LBJ and the Dems.

4)Would Obamacare and the porkulus (stimulus) have occurred if obama and the dems hadn't controlled the goverment in 2008-2010.

Learn to recogninize patterns-it makes life so much safer.  You're a very confused person with no sense of history.

Saying both parties are equally to blame is so ignorant its amusing, but plays into the Fabian Socialists dream of the NWO.

And finally there is only one party with the likes of patriots like Ron and Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and Tim Hill.  Discrimination is the essence of intelligence!   Use some.

 

 

 

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 03:40 | Link to Comment sadmamapatriot
sadmamapatriot's picture

I agree with you to an extent, but the End is Nigh. Look at this shutdown fiasco. This is what I posted to try and educate family and friends.

EXPLAINING THE SHUTDOWN
I don't know if I ever made this clear to everyone before. (In case you were in the dark.) The shutdown was pre-planned and the re-opening of the government was pre-planned. Those signs and barricades were pre-printed and pre-ordered. The debt ceiling was busted back in May. The Federal gov was hiding it by embezzling the money from the Federal Employee Pension Fund. The fund has $331 billion and they had used up $328 billion the day before they re-opened the government and raised the debt ceiling. This was all pre-planned by BOTH parties. The Dems can tell their base those right wing terrorist GOP/Tea people closed down the government and held us hostage. The GOP/Tea people can say, see, we put up a good fight to stop the spending but, after all, we are only one half of one third of the government. 
Are you feeling played yet? You should.

 

The problem is the GOP has no real intention of shrinking spending or government power as evidenced by their ACTIONS.

 

ETA; And of course some of the reasons both sides try to continue the facade is they do not want to be lynched when the illusion shatters, and their masters, aka Banksters, live off the fiat debt bubble.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:11 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Eric Cantor and insider trading come close. Thank God he didn't have executive orders at his disposal 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:41 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, I guess thats the point I'm getting to.

The nations laws are set up on an equal power sharing basis, checks & balances, no one man has ultimate power. King O'Barry is abusing the privilege he has been granted by us and there aren't many showing the balls to try and stop him with the exception of Rand & Cruz & Lee. The executive is not a prince here, no matter what he thinks of himself (narcissist that he is).

Once upon a time we called his actions, tyranny, for good reason.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:10 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Obamacare is way worse than Bush's (stupid, yes) Medicare Part D.  

 

QED

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Obamacare is way worse than Bush's (stupid, yes) Medicare Part D.  

Everybody loves the socialist scam they are living off of or looting, even OldFart "Conservatives". 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:30 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

They are progressives today, Fabian Socialists, Bushy, Blairisy, Hitlary, Oblamer, Piglousy, McConnel Douglas, Insane McCain, the lot of 'em...Does not matter, they are all cut from the same cloth.  Do some research on Fabians, a horrible lot of human waste.

Wolf in sheeps clothing - is one of their symbols!  Ever read the Overton Window?

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:41 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Overton Window

Interesting, never heard of it.   Makes allot of sence from a pre-programmed behavioralist point of view (which is mine basically).

Re:  Fabian Socialists

Also interesting.    I had heard of them, but forgot the name.  

Labels are a definite problem with identifying all variations on the same basic theme of socialism.    People spend most of their time trying to stake-out positions to figure-out where people are on the political spectrum.

Well, political OCD is time consuming.   Been a fun day.   But, I'm ready to head out for the day.   I'm sure it will be another fun battle in the future.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I am the KING OF THE FORRESTTTTT!  All of our problems, have solutions, we just need the right people to implement them!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:26 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Two extremist scenarios:

First, all liberals disappear overnight. What is the impact to the economy?

Second, all conservatives disappear overnight. The economy then?

I contend that while the world might well be a bit harsher with the absence of liberals, the loss of conservatives would bring the economy to its knees. Liberals NEED us to pay for all of the generosity they promote. I need them for nothing.

 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:31 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

That is why, you see, liberals/socialists won't run out of money, until they run out of yours!  To paraphrase the Iron Girdle!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:47 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: bit harsher with the absence of liberals

A bit,  ya think so?   Yeah,   "just a bit".  

We have "liberals" BECAUSE the world in the 1880 was harsh.   

The reality is that "Conservatives" and Libertarians (regardless of quotes) can't comprehend is that 50% of the human population is below average.   And MOST humans are self-serving mean assholes who would happily piss on you if they'd get richer doing so (which all the "Conservative" and "Liberal" "patriots" working for the NSA are doing to all of us right NOW).   So,  what happens when the bottom 50% competes with the top 50%.   Worse, what happens when the bottom 50% competes with the top 10%.  

Yeah, "Liberal" are there for a reason.   People get eaten alive by the sociopaths.    And other sociopaths come in to "protect" them.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:08 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Just quit being so sore because YOU are in the bottom 50%!

Like all things of goodness and sweet came from liberals! My God you are broken!

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 02:32 | Link to Comment John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

I'm trying to recall knowing any competent, talented independent progressive in my life.  Can't think of a single one.  The more talent, ability and independence the more a person dislikes any kind of nanny government control, local or federal.  Don't ever hire a "progressive" to fix your car, build your house etc.  Do it yourself, as I have done throughout my life.  Competance and ability trumps all ideology.  Indeed we need them (the government "experts") for nothing and this defines the character of a true conservative!  True conservatives reload their own ammo and will never turn over their guns to any nanny government.   Tax avoidance is a virtue, as is cash payment.  Debt is slavery and avoided at all costs (have always paid cash for any vehicle or motorcycle I've bought)

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

People were born to live by grace.  The old testament predicted the new testament.  Take it or leave it.  "Guilt ridden by wealth" is a modern liberal phenomenon.  Read the NT for what it is and you'll see that the smothering, paranoid, mommy people driven by fear/ego are on their way out.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:06 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Very nice, + 1

I hope you are right.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

No doubt.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***"Guilt ridden by wealth" is a modern liberal phenomenon.***

Are you sure about that? Here's a quote from the New Testament. It's one that many modern day Christians are very uncomfortable with.

-When Jesus heard this, He told him, "You still lack one thing: Sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me."
When the young man heard this, he became very sad, because he was very wealthy.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Bryan
Bryan's picture

Exactly.  Wealth is a ball and chain to many.  I would guess that many people who have it, cannot emotionally and intelligently handle wealth while also living a generous, kind, thoughtful, service-oriented life.  Apparently this was the case with the "rich young man", whose prescription was to get rid of the ball and chain.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Yes.  It was very specific and was addressing a specific person.

18 A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

AKA. He was speaking to the equivalent of a modern ruler/politician like Pelosi.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 22:12 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

You're really starting to get on my last nerve.

Who was He talking too?

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

He was talking to a ruler...a government official, someone who aquired his wealth at the expense of others labor.

Yes or no?

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 03:43 | Link to Comment Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

***He was talking to a ruler...a government official, someone who aquired his wealth at the expense of others labor.***

As I said, this New Testament quote make many "Christians" uncomfortable. Let's face it, most wealthy people made their wealth at the expense of other's labor. But notice He didn't say give up your office or position, He said sell what you have and give all to the poor. Being a Christian isn't easy as some people make out to be.

As for for your "last nerve". If I wasn't wearing my Christian hat at the moment, I'd tell you what to do with your "nerve"!

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 06:25 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"...most wealthy people made their wealth at the expense of other's labor."

Unless you're a Wall Street banker tied at the hip to the governments magical money tree, then no. Most wealthy people PAID for anothers labor from a portion of their earnings, while producing something people want to buy. Government and the people who work for it don't produce anything to gain wealth, it extracts wealth by force.

Thats called stealing.

And He spoke to that too.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:22 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Most people only think in 2 dimensions if that when the world is 3 dimensional is the real problem when you get right down to it. The smarter ones not necessarily the educated ones think more in 3 dimensional terms and then do the equivalent in math of a derivative down to 2 for the rest of the people who don't.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:11 | Link to Comment AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Brandon Smith, you didn't write this article. WE wrote it.
I await my royalty check.
;-)

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Constitutional "Conservatives" or Constitution Conservatives?

Whatever label works for the no-label crowd.  Progress is inevitable.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

what progress?

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:31 | Link to Comment 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture

 

 

"Progress is inevitable."

I wish that were true but it's not. If progress is inevitable, then we all could calm down, get some popcorn and enjoy the drama.

We will only have change when we have a movement or political party that reflects our interests. Right now we have lots of dissatisfaction...steam outside of a piston. Too many militant flags but not *yet* an army.

The original article shows how confused this process is and how all the labels are not helpful in understanding events.

We don't have the right leadership yet.

 

 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:47 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Truly nothing stays static (accept maybe unemployment) but "progress" would indicate a progression which we would typically think of as positive, but in this case most "progress" we have witnessed has been towards a steep and rocky cliff.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

No-labels is a political/progressive term and strategy.  In the bigger picture, humanity is a work in progress.  We're constantly being tested, tried and forged by our choices.  We don't have the right leadership now, but the same forces are indirectly manifesting future leadership.  There's no way out of our situtation but thru the tempering fire.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:01 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

We don't have the right leadership now

"The right leadership" is an illusion at best. To be led is to be a slave.

Fuck "leaders."

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

The environment for individual freedom within any societal structure is created and earned by people with a greater purpose, not driven by natural selfishness.  True Leaders represent this timeless human sentiment.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:22 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

If they force anyone to follow where they lead, they are thugs.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Yep.  Drivers, not leaders.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You can call me a Conservative or a Liberal (or even a Communist - which a Deputy Treasury Secretary did call me), but I really object to the Constitutional part of the meaningless label... the transition from a Confederation was the beginning of the road to Hell. I don't care how good or noble their intentions were. How does one bind himself to a document and treat it as inviolable as the Ten Commandments and word of God himself (and which was in fact a losing proposition/compromise 220 years years ago) and expect to win on a long enough timeline?

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:48 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

"How many Constitutional "Conservatives" like having the government regulate the male pecker or think Big-OldFart Medicare is ok socialism?"

None, that I know of and I know quite a few. 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:03 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: None, that I know of and I know quite a few. 

So, you must know Conservatives.   Too bad all the ones on TV are "Conservatives".   Otherwise, maybe I'd have a fucking party to support, no?

I'm sick of Big-Gov "Conservatives".  

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

But you seem to have no problem with Big Gov Big Libs, right? Like everyother Obama bot who has tasted their choice of koolaid and found it lacking, you simply fall back on regardless of how bad it is, all others are worse. No mental rigor here.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  But you seem to have no problem with Big Gov Big Libs, right?

My Libertarian credentials are impecible.   Sorry.   If you can't figure out that just because I know your Red Team "Conservativism" is nothing but bullshit it doesn't mean the Blue Team's "liberalism" bullshit is any better.   There's more than just TWO choices when it comes to ISM's.

Big-Gov dumbasses are Big-Gov dumbasses.  

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Admittedly I have not seen your "credentials" but I do find it curious that you seldom attack those on the left other when referring to your red/blue banter. I presume when you refer to libertarian you mean "none of the above", as you seem to have lttle to offer other than anarchism, with a secret love of Marx. The conservative positions on the economy are significantly closer to mainstream libertarian positions than liberal but you seem to have a deep hatred of anything conservative. I think its time you take your Marxist freak flag out of the closet for all to see rather to continue in denial. Its just not healthy and you know all of us here care deeply.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 09:29 | Link to Comment Abaco
Abaco's picture

Well, neither of those things are among the powers granted the feds by the consitution.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

The real enemy is a thought: It's right for important people to order me around.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

As a TEA Party person, I say we are not the boogeyman!!!  We want small govt, fiscal sanity (balanced budget), more liberty and freedom, less regulation, repeal many if not all alphabet soup agencies, stop being the world police dept, defend our borders, put people back to work by repealing NAFTA, CAFTA, etcA...US out of the UN and the UN out of the US!

The Constitution should be honored, and all Progressive Laws written since the late 1800's repealed...Flat Tax instead of a Progressive Income Tax.  Privatization of all retirement plans.  Repeal O'care, fix is to allow purchase of HC across state lines to increase competition.

Bring back the production, the jobs will follow, the taxes (revenues) will increase and growth will follow.

This socialist, keep 'em in the gutter for the vote, and red team/blue team bullshit is so 1950's...

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:28 | Link to Comment therevolutionwas
therevolutionwas's picture

Trying to get across the fact that we are not "the boogeyman" to the sheeple and semi-sheeple is the part that is sooooo painfully slow and mostly unrewarding.  Maybe because I don't have the patience to keep at it.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Lost a few friends and family, speaking my mind, warning folks, makes no difference, keep talking.  Education is a must!!!

Spread the word, and speak the truth, even if it means your death!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Some of us know that one fer sure.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:16 | Link to Comment granolageek
granolageek's picture

How about actually limiting the tea party's program to that instead of always going all social conservative (which sure looks big government to me) every time there is even a noticeable minority of tea party legislators.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I beg your pardon sir!  TEA Party reps introduced 8 balanced budget bills, and the Senate killed them.  They voted as a block against the last duplicit legislation that suspends the debt ceiling, did you know that?  Soon it will be permanent law ROFLMAO

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 09:30 | Link to Comment Abaco
Abaco's picture

Example of "tea party program" going all social conservative please.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:09 | Link to Comment Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Liberal faggots and fag-media gotta hate.  And hate they do!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:17 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

But but but but they wax eloquently about social justice for all, diversity, equality, human rights, freedoms....

http://www.liberal-hypocrisy.com/

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:10 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Don't we all. And how many of us buy shit made in China?

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:43 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Oh, the hypocracy of it all.  Is it not true, social justice, is a code word for murder.  More people have died in the name of social justice than all wars combined, yes liberals, even when you include the Crusades (LOL)!!!  Just ask all those folks who committed suicide by two bullets to the back of the head, in China, Russia, Cambodia, Nigeria, Uganda, S. Africa, THE MIDDLE EAST!!!  

May the farce be with you.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment granolageek
granolageek's picture

Hate much yourself?

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

The problem is that Washington thinks its too big to fail.  We don't have an economic problem, we have a political problem. 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Speaking for myself, being called a tea-hadist was a real scream...lol...I told the guy he must have got the word off a website that Obama didn't build ;-)

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:13 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

LOL, too funny nmewn...those are people I like to call MUELING QUIMS!

 

One day, they may wake up, but it will be way too late.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:24 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I always know when "progressives" have lost the argument or can't think rationally for themselves (which is most of the time...lol)...its always...you're a razzzist, you want old people to die, sociopath!, you eat children, torture puppies and are destroying the planet...so there!...lol.

The best way to deal with them is let em rant till they foam at the mouth ;-)

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:32 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."they foam at the mouth"

That too, sadly, has become attractive.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:39 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Back in the day, I'd say..."Hey, you got a little spittle, right there in the corner."...lol.

Now I just let em run till they drop dead from exhaustion...won't be long now ;-)

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:34 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

Yes, very true, once they have lost the argument, and that is usually from the start, they turn, shall I say, gutteral!!  A real pity, such a waste of flesh.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

The rant to which you see is an expression of unmitigated fear. Being a constitutional conservative requires personal responsibility and self determination. There are no safety nets in government. Only those provided by the private sector. This is what the framers of the Constitution had in mind.

What I see is Progressives champion both technocratic ( rule by experts) government and direct democracy. However the Constitution stands opposed to both. As the framers saw it, both populist and technocratic politics were expressions of a modern hubris about the capacity of human beings — be it of the experts or of the people as a whole — to make just the right governing decisions. The Constitution is built upon a profound skepticism about the ability of ANY political arrangement to overcome the limitations of human reason and human nature. Therefore the Constitution established a system of checks to prevent sudden large mistakes while enabling gradual changes supported by a consensus.

As Alexander Hamilton puts it in Federalist 73, “to increase the chances in favor of the community against the passing of bad laws through haste, inadvertence, or design.” 

The passing of Obamacare is a prime example how far this country has slipped from its basic governing principles.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:53 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

I applaud and approve of your rant!  Keep up the good work inform as many as you can...it is all about individual freedom and self determination when boiled down.

It is good to read what you wrote there, a good reminder, and OzeroCare is a power grab, nothing less!  Prime eg of all three branches in control all Democritters....shame on US!  The system is designed for gridlock, to prevent this sort of thing; however, so called conservatives were asleep at the wheel, while the inmates ran the asylum.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:12 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

This has been an excellent thread.  Lots of good back & forth.

+ 1, Tylers!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:18 | Link to Comment Bawneee Fwank
Bawneee Fwank's picture

There is no democrat and there are no republicans...We currently have tyrants, large and small, federal, state and local level tyrants.  The letter at the front of their name means nothing because they both want the same thing...power.  You can argue whether its socialism or fascism...Its just evil, these evil motherfuckers want to control and destory us.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:34 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Its just evil

Yes,  and normal.   Unless people are directly affected by government they don't care about it.    Over the last 60+ years both parties figured out that giving people free-money was the sure way to make them ignore the government.   Leaving the power and resulting immorality unquestioned.

It's so simple, even the Libertarians loved it (for awhile,  show of hands of all the Libertarians who loved all the cool war toys.   Me me me.  Remember the Libertarian bullshit we used to repeat:  "It's a necessary function of government",  what a bunch of duplicitious bullshitting morons we were back then...)

We've got the only government possible,  it's the same all over the world.  

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:07 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

 "what a bunch of duplicitious bullshitting morons we were back then..."

and still are!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:17 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: and still are!

+1000 (again).   Political OCD is a bitch!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:30 | Link to Comment JerseyJoe
JerseyJoe's picture

Fascism and socialism are different shades of the same sickness.   Control and domination.

Freedom and liberty, the cures to oppression by the state.  

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:07 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

The balls to act on your freedoms and liberties are the cures. Without balls, freedom and liberty are just words.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:49 | Link to Comment Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

Minnie Balls.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

And we allow it.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 22:27 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

And we allow it.

Yes. As long as everyone obeys, nothing changes.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:27 | Link to Comment JerseyJoe
JerseyJoe's picture

I love it when libs get religion.  

Constitutional Conservativism is the best solution.   The founders understood this clearly. 

Downsize the gubmint.  Restructure FDR's socialist progressive BS Ponzi nonsense.  

We are on a road to financial collapse and tyranny, if we don't alter course back to freedom and liberty.  

The debt path we are on is enslavement for us and out kids and their kids.  And the founders knew it.

END THE FED!  

 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:55 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Downsize the gubmint.  Restructure FDR's socialist progressive BS Ponzi nonsense.  

 

It would require lots of "Conservatives" and "Liberals" to admit the bullshit they were spewing for 60+ years was wrong.

How many people do you know admit they are wrong?   Worse,  how many people do you know are going to give up the free-shit they are getting from Big-Ag, Big-MIC, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Energy, Big-Ed, Big-House, Big-Fin, Big-OldFart, Big-OldFartHealthcare, Big-AntiDrug, & Big-PoliceState.  I'm not giving up MINE, until I see everybody else back away from the feeding trough.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:03 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

We are already there. Now reduced to just complaining about it.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:35 | Link to Comment Reaper
Reaper's picture

Lord Acton wrote, "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely," about the Pope. The delusion of mankind is that some leader or some committee of virtuous persons of the correct political persuasion can be trusted. The Constitution was written to disperse power and hope that competing powers would protect against any one seizing all power. Cincinnatus, was the Roman Consul and Dictator, who gave up power and returned to his farm twice. But, his virtue was not passed to his son. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus

The Senate and House are filled with corrupt long-serving vermin. Power corrupts outside government. Most of our publicly held corporations have interlocking boards of self-serving noble corrupt elitists who chose the corporate officers. Banks are another cabal of noble elitists. Our judges serve for life and are almost immune from oversight. Bureaucrats have tenure.

It's time to send them all back to the farm. Their may never be another Cincinnatus, so there must be limits on time in power and competing power interests. A noble King, noble dictator, noble Central Committee, noble judge, or noble legislator are rare as hen's teeth and just as likely to not be found.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:38 | Link to Comment ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Don't give govco any power and I won't have to worry about either side of the isle treading on me. LEAVE ME ALONE!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:02 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Some one is always looking to tread on you, me and the rest of us. It has always been that way. Question is, will you stand for those who can not stand for themselves?

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:38 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Conservatives will advance the agenda of freedom as long as they have no real power. A truly conservative agenda rejects large centralized power which also limits their power to effect the agenda. Liberals love power and see it as a useful tool like nuclear power, choosing to ignore the downsides like global annihilation. Conservatives should know that power corrupts and the closer they get to absolute power the more absolutely corrupt it becomes. Of course that is where the rub comes because to defeat the liberal power structure requires a mighty power base of its own. The reason why constitutional conservatives will NEVER prevail.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:54 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  The reason why constitutional conservatives will NEVER prevail.

Exactly,  because there are more "Conservative" who love using the government to control the male pecker than Conservatives who understand controlling the male pecker leads to controlling other things.

But,  would you (as a human) rather annoy people or live the Rightous Libertarian life?

Well, you are I are model Libertarians, of course, but the rest of these "Conservative" asshole love Big-Gov.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:06 | Link to Comment Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

The author used the term neo liberal when he meant (american) liberal.

He also should use neo liberal in place of "constitutional conservative." Neo liberals do not distrust small government. They prefer it be as small as possible, just not as small as libertarians would like.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Abi Normal
Abi Normal's picture

That is a laugh popper...if what you say is true, and it isn't, far from it...how do you explain Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid (The Great Society), Pres Part D, and now ObamaCare.

You think liberals are about small govt?  Are you crosseyed man?  Get a grip sir!  

Liberalism is a mental disorder gone amuck!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:39 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

ABC (all black channel) 1st story....a. new Trayvon case....someone is gonna pay!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

Thanking you for affirming my post

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:53 | Link to Comment akarc
akarc's picture

"very few have the self discipline or the self awareness necessary to relinquish the trappings of power once they have tasted it. This truth applies to conservatives as much as it applies to liberals."

 

The lack of self awareness and discipline necessary to relinquish using the terms "conservatives" and "liberals" as a broad brush by which to label an individual only serves to exacerbate the problem.

 

I believe fervently in the second amendment and the right to carry openly. I also believe that what goes on in a Dr's. office regarding a womans pregnancy is none of my damn business. 

 

I hate large government. But is the problem government or currupt government at every level and the lack of accountability for those of status relative to those of lessor status?

 

I have to ask myself why do we have an FDA? Because profiteers did not mind mixing human parts with your hamburger.  Why did unions come into existence? Because the priviliged have no qualms about abusing those beneath them. And so on.............

 

I know conservatives who have no problem reaping the benefits of social programs when the need or desire makes it convienent to abandon their talk.  Just as I know liberals in ivy covered towers who have no fucking idea how the man in the street has to live. And I know far to many who claim no ideaology becausee they have become drones who no longer have the time or energy to think. All their efforts are spent trying to feed and clothe their kids at convience store wages. Choose your anethesthesia. American Idol and a beer? Football and a beer?

 

There is no "true" this or "true" that when you base your belief system on a party line or a label and you fear speaking against it lest you be labelled with hate from whatever the opposite side may be. 

 

We have not or care not to learn the lessons of history. We listen to our chosen garbage pumping branded media and  allow it to brainwash ourselves seeking out confirmation from those who have been proven to be liars over and over again. In fact we re-elect them over and over again because they buy us a bridge or promise to do what we want whether or not what we want is right or left.

 

It would not surprise me if slavery could not receive a significant number of votes were it actually placed on a ballot. After all we export our jobs to countries that allow it. To our sworn enemies. And then sit back and call ourselves freedom loving patriots????

 

Our moral compass is not broken. It never existed evidenced by the Christian persecution of  indians, blacks and a self proclaimed manifest destiny that has brought upon us this Karma. For who are the "N's" now?  All of us who can plainly see the machinations of  oppressors who care less about politics. It is all about power and money.

 

We are all guilty and fervently seeking someone other than ourselves to blame.

 

Well trick or treat mother fuckers!

 

 


Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  We are all guilty and fervently seeking someone other than ourselves to blame.

+1000

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:21 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Good post. Wandered around a bit, but all in all a thougtful and very human post.                           Milestones

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:26 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

"   There is no "true" this or "true" that when you base your belief system on a party line or a label and you fear speaking against it lest you be labelled with hate from whatever the opposite side may be.    "

"It's alright Ma, I'm Only Bleeding"

Dylan

......

While some on principles baptized

To strict party platform ties
Social clubs in drag disguise
Outsiders they can freely criticize
Tell nothing except who to idolize
And then say God bless him

While one who sings with his tongue on fire
Gargles in the rat race choir
Bent out of shape from society’s pliers
Cares not to come up any higher
But rather get you down in the hole
That he’s in

But I mean no harm nor put fault
On anyone that lives in a vault
But it’s alright, Ma, if I can’t please him

...

You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks they really found you

.....

My eyes collide head-on with stuffed
Graveyards, false gods, I scuff
At pettiness which plays so rough
Walk upside-down inside handcuffs
Kick my legs to crash it off
Say okay, I have had enough, what else can you show me?

And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They’d probably put my head in a guillotine
But it’s alright, Ma, it’s life, and life only

Bringing It All Back Home

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment runningman18
runningman18's picture

You missed the point.  Liberal arguments need to be addressed because they are the portion of our society that is most power mad right now.  The GOP has taken a back seat to the Obamabots.  You can't bring folks to the truth without first dismantling the biases common to their particular subculture.  It is childish to believe that simply saying that the two sides are the same side is enough to deal with the dysfunction.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

He used neo liberal incorrectly when he meant (American) liberal.

Neo liberal is the more correct term for his concept of a constitutional conservative. A neo liberal also understands the dangers and opportunity cost of excessive military spending which is also wrecking government finance.

The term came about because many "conservatives" can be unenlightened about economic theory and "conservative" is also associated with People who support a large bloated standing army and right wing authoritarian politics

Neo liberals are moderate/centrist libertarians.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 18:57 | Link to Comment jack stephan
jack stephan's picture

Hey before you guys drink too much tonight and go sleepwalking around the house from being overwhelmed by concerns, here is a cheery stupid jingle to distract you with random nutballerry.

http://youtu.be/EMVj-_zVkL8

It's so obnoxious it's perfect. Eat your kids candy folks, they are too fat probably anyways haha

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:09 | Link to Comment Weisshaupt
Weisshaupt's picture

It doesn't matter - like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Tea Party is irrelevant to the story.  The left's battle is with reality, and it will exist regardles of the warnings of others.They won't listen.  Indiana knew enough to shut his eyes when they opened the Ark. We know enough to prepare for the coming catastophe.  You cannot avert it. You cant convince them to stop. They will open the Ark, they will be destoryed by reality itself and the consequences of thier actions, as surely as if the God of the Jews decended upon them..  The best you can hope for is to just keep out of the way,

 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 23:39 | Link to Comment runningman18
runningman18's picture

The truth is always relevant.  The truth changes everything.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment Surging Chaos
Surging Chaos's picture

No, I don't think they're the boogeyman. Better than having to deal with your typical statist.

That being said... I used to worship the Constitution myself thinking it was infalliable and amazing. Then I read Lysander Spooner and Murray Rothbard and they showed me the harsh reality. No document, no matter how well written, cannot fully restrain the corrupting powers of the state and human desire. And thus I went from Constitutionalist to An-Cap after making that realization.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -- Lysander Spooner

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment Jethro
Jethro's picture

Thanks, I was unaware of Spooner. I will read more.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:12 | Link to Comment notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

I find that most of these political labels which people use often mean very different things to different people.  Personally, I tend to think of politics as a circle instead of a line.  Think of 4 poles at the 4 directions of a compass.  North is totalitarianism.  South is anarchy.  West is liberalism.  And, east is conservatism.  [This was not my idea.  I think I heard Neal Boortz mention it.  And, I think communism and fascism are both so close to north as to be somewhat indistinguishable.]

The US would seem to have spent the earlier parts of its history bouncing back and forth from some kind of south-southeast to some kind of south-southwest.

But, while bouncing left and right, in more recent decades [if not centuries], we seem to have moved more solidly toward the north.

Personally, I favor a hard south-southwest on individual rights and personal privacy issues, but a hard south-southeast on fiscal issues; but I would gladly settle for merely getting back to SW and SE (if not W and E).

I must be one of these radical extremist boogeymen too.

'Just the latest threat to the elite politicos becoming ever more powerful and corrupt.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:40 | Link to Comment Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture
"Our system is broken and it is going to collapse. There is no way around it. More debt and more fiat printing means stagflationary collapse. Default and austerity means stagflationary collapse. If liberals want to place blame for this conundrum, then they should focus on the people who actually set the original fire – international and central bankers."


Although I certainly agree with that analysis, the bullshit "solutions" proposed by Brandon Smith are typical of the various kinds of reactionary revolutionaries, who want to go back to some impossible ideals, after still perceiving the world through false fundamental dichotomies. I have never yet seen anybody from the so-called "Liberty Movement perspective" who bothers to explain how they reconcile the principle of the conservation of energy with freedom. Doing that requires profound changes in the basic philosophy of science, which transcend the sources of the false fundamental dichotomies, and their related impossible ideals.

The biggest bullies' bullshit stories do not merely dominate political economy, they also dominate the basic philosophy of science, which most of our current culture takes for granted. The most important one of those is that an ARBITRARY minus sign was inserted into the entropy equations used in thermodynamics, and information theory, so that measurements of power and information would end up with positive numbers, instead of negative numbers. The mathematics itself says that all measurements of any kind of power or information results in varying negative numbers. To put it another way, all human realities are always organized systems of lies, operating organized robberies.

Given a constant enough environment, then an evolutionary ecology develops between the different systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies. However, basic breakthroughs in the paradigms in sciences like physics and biology have enabled technologies to become trillions of times more powerful and capable, which has fundamentally changed the human condition. So far, we have NOT adapted to that, other than by amplifying the previously established social and political systems by many orders of magnitude, to astronomical sizes. (I.e,. global electronic fiat money frauds, backed by atomic bombs) It is rather ridiculous in that real context to propose going back to any kind of previously existing ideology as providing some kind of genuine solutions to the runaway imbalances being caused by the dominate systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies, becoming able to back up their legalized lies and legalized violence by trillions of times. While I agree with the analysis of those problems, I find that I am usually disappointed by how silly and superficial the "solutions" being offered become, after that analysis.

To be consistent with the analysis, when one turns to the possible real resolutions of those problems, one has to recognized that government IS organized crime, controlled by the best organized gang of criminals, and it can not be anything else. Money is measurement, backed by murder. The debt controls depend upon the death controls. All of those are axiomatic, and none of them will yield before any old-fashioned false fundamental dichotomies, and their related impossible ideals. The constitutional rule of law is an attempt to channel the powers that everyone has to engage in robbery, and to back that robbery up through killing, into forms which have checks and balances, and divisions of those powers, which may favour the evolutionary ecology of better dynamic equilibria between different systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies. The basic problems are due to that balance becoming shot to hell, by the "international and central bankers" becoming too successful in their efforts to apply the principles of organized crime, in order to take over control of the powers of governments, and thereby effectively privatize the governmental powers to rob, and to kill to back up that robbery.

The degree of imbalance that has been generated has become too excessive to stand: "Our system is broken and it is going to collapse. There is no way around it." However, the genuine solutions to these problems need to be inspired by the deeper reasons WHY they exist. Namely, the chronic political problems inherent in the nature of life, which, for a while, had a set of solutions formulated during the history of Neolithic Civilization through social pyramid systems, need to be pushed through to some sort of Translithic Civilization. While the original source of our problems are inherent in the nature of life itself, and thus, generate chronic political problems which must be resolved in one way or another (and tended to be resolved by going down their own path of least action, or least resistance, which is the human path of least morality, through controlling civilizations with deceits and frauds), the deeper real reasons WHY the historical balancing processes have been broken are the breakthroughs in basic sciences, leading to technologies becoming trillions of times more powerful and capable than anything that ever existed before in known human history.

The only genuine solutions must arise from equally profound changes in the paradigms in the philosophy of science, which then are especially applied to political science and militarism, and from there, then applied to change the death controls in ways which can sustain the changes in debt controls, which altogether result in a radically different set of solutions emerging in the evolutionary ecologies of human beings, industry, and nature. Nothing in Brandon Smith's old-fashioned ideas about what the "solutions" should be come remotely close to being in the right ball park that the problems are now actually in! Of course, in this context, I am merely using Brandon Smith as a sort of whipping boy to represent all the other kinds of reactionary revolutionaries, which typically provide good analysis of the problems, but then collapse back to bullshit solutions, based on the same old false fundamental dichotomies, and their related ideals. While I am still waiting for anybody who calls themselves a "Libertarian" to explain how they reconcile their concept of "freedom" with the principle of the conservation of energy, of course, I do not expect to get a good answer. What I actually expect IS that "Our system is broken and it is going to collapse." However, there can be no good ways through that psychotic breakdown of the established social pyramid systems, being amplified by technologies that are trillions of times more powerful, other than to embrace the deeper real reasons WHY that has happened, and therefore, what to do about that.

What we need more than anything else is a series of scientific revolutions, or paradigm shifts in our basic perceptions of politics. For sure, the current world is being controlled in crazier and crazier ways by the biggest bullies and their bullshit, namely, by the "international and central bankers." However, it is vital to see deeper into the history whereby the biggest bullies' bullshit also perverted the philosophy of science, in ways which have resulted in people systematically perceiving things in a Bizarro Mirror World, where almost everything is seen as proportionately backwards. The basic problem is the runaway triumph of the covert application of the methods of organized crime to take control over the powers of government, which have resulted in America, and almost the whole world, being dominated by integrated systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, which are spinning out of control worse, faster, since their violence can never make those lies become true, but only drive the society as a whole to become more psychotic, the more that it gets controlled by those triumphant deceits and frauds. However, there are NO genuine solutions to be found in any old-fashioned notions about "truth and justice," which still depend upon false fundamental dichotomies, and their related impossible ideals.

Break though progress in other basic sciences, which then enabled awesome new technologies, was always based on breaking through to some new unitary mechanisms in order to understand nature, which surpassed some previous set of false fundamental dichotomies, which were wrong, and relatively useless, although people could still limp on, despite having fundamental false ideas about how things worked. I assert that the same things are now necessary in political science and militarism. We need profound paradigm shifts in the philosophy of science, in order to enable a new way of thinking about our problems, in order to be able to create a new set of solutions. "Constitutional conservatives" are NOT providing enough of that!

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:27 | Link to Comment Jethro
Jethro's picture

I think that I understand what you are conveying, however, where will this paradigm shift occur? In energy? Knowledge? Pholosophy? Governance? Food production? Water reclamation? Mining? I propose that economies of scale and maximum efficiencies have almost plateaued. What then are we left with? Reduction in population? It's the last way to increase efficiency. 

I was taught in college that all of the world's problems were either caused, or exacerbated by humans. If this is what the liberal elites espouse, it only stands to reason that the solution ends with a very lethal pandemic.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 00:51 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Eventual collapse and eventual rebirth of conservatve values.. Same cycle as it ever was but it may take a thousand years.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 22:27 | Link to Comment pipes
pipes's picture

Round and round we go, where we stop...

Blah, blah,blah blah blah. Good god...rarely have I ever seen so much didactic rambling with so little being said.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 23:36 | Link to Comment runningman18
runningman18's picture

You come off like an arrogant prick, but maybe you're a nice guy in person...

Your entire long blathering diatribe could be boiled down to two depressingly simple points:

1) Brandon Smith stole my girlfriend or pissed in my cornflakes and now I hate him.  He is a "reactionary", though I will never explain what I mean by that, or qualify the attack with any real facts.

2)  We need a magical technological paradigm shift to save the planet, but I will not explain what my particular definition of this shift would be, nor will I explain how it would work, or how we can proactively make it work.

You keep crticizing Smith's solutions as "reactionary", but you don't really specify what solutions you are referring to, or even qualify any of your baseless opinions.  Why don't you try explaining why we should listen to you?  What solution, specifically, are you selling, and why is it better than anything the author has presented in the past? 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 19:42 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

History was written with what works and what doesn't. Central Bankers are blind ass greedy M'Fers to knowingly choose their future based on what the past has proven.

Long live the revolution. Off with their heads.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 20:52 | Link to Comment wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Not yet.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:06 | Link to Comment Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

Focus on international financiers, those rootless cosmopolitans who owe no allegiance to any people and plunder all. Central banks are their latest incarnation, spreading out from the original Bank of England, and polluting world commerce ever since.

They hated the USA since its inception, and vowed to send 'those colonialists' to poverty, and got their way in 1913 with the founding of the un-Federal no-Reserve Board, owned by secret shareholders, intent on plundering this upstart colony whose Constitution and Bill of Rights offends its monarchy/tyrant agenda.

Notice how the central banks like monarchies and tyrants in every land, most recently in Africa, the Middle East and Far East? The Fed sends USD to be paid for by Americans to save its banks and tyrant regimes in other lands, while CONgress behaves like a village idiot, ignoring the enemy within.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

exactly right.

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

Why Neo-Liberals Distrust Limited Government Champions

 

I think Branden hits this one perfectly.  That's exactly how a liberal views the tea party, as a threat to stopping big corporations  (with MSM fanning that perception/illusion)

They see "limited Government" as a code for loving big corporations. 

He is right that is the false paradigm that most be extinguished. 

 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 21:47 | Link to Comment SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Check out the movie "Branded" playing on netflix right now.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1368440/

"the ultimate goal of marketing is to make the competition illegal" 

in Germany, Greece, and most of the EU the left has attempted to outlaw and criminalize political dissent. 

It's a riot, especially for the more aspergery-autistic in the audience whom see pattern recognition and propaganda without disclosure.

Everybody in America should see that movie, it explains why HMOs were eliminated. 

the current state marketing lies: 

"Diversity is good, freedom & liberty is racist"

"immigration is good for the economy" 

"solar panels prevent global warming"

"socialized medicine will save you money"  

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 22:22 | Link to Comment NMC_EXP
NMC_EXP's picture

Many comments in this thread comparing and contrasting: progressives, liberals, conservatives, constitutionists, libertarians....etc.

However, there is only one political continuum that matters:

Liberty<================>Tyranny

 

Thu, 10/31/2013 - 23:25 | Link to Comment Flammonde
Flammonde's picture

It comes down to freedom or government.  No government wants a citizenry free of it's Patriarchial authority to wage class war at home and abroad.  A Constitutional government merely is the commanding legal agreement among brigands to share spoils under the guise of law.

The law is what the judges say it is.  Then the soldiers obey the law administered by their generals.  In the middle lies the government financed by good fellas.  Constitutional conservatives cannot cabin power by legal lies, magic spells and incantations to Lady Liberty.  It requires military force.

An agreement of the people for a firm and present peace upon grounds of common right and freedom.

28 October 1647

An agreement of the people for a firm and present peace upon grounds of common right and freedom, as it was proposed by the agents of the five regiments of horse, and since by the general approbation of the army offered to the joint concurrence of all the free commons of England
The names of the regiments which have already appeared for the case of the Case of the army truly stated, and for this present Agreement.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 00:23 | Link to Comment TwoHoot
TwoHoot's picture

Go Get 'em Brandon!

It is funny how the Tea Party scares the hell out of Democrats and RINO Republicans when they don't field any candidates, present no platform, have no party headquarters, and no fundraising apparatus or recognized leades, Yet they are feared enough to be villified and can influence about 25% of the vote in many elections.

Maybe the Tea Party movement  doesn't need a leader.  So far, it looks a lot like normal Americans doing what they think is right without any big shot telling them what to think and do.

The Tea Party is just a personal committment to the idea that the USA will be better off with constitutionally limited government than without it. Anyone can work toward that goal in any way they see fit and be part of the Tea Party. It is a big tent, filling fast, with room for expansion.

So far, the Tea Party has influenced mostly the Republican party. But there are many Democrats who believe in constitionally limited government that are agast at the hard-left Stalinist takeover of their party. They may not call themselves members of the Tea Party, but their influence will be felt in the precinct level caucases and Democrat primaries.

The idea of Leaderless Resistance is not new. It is the only way reformers can function when a government becomes intrusive and oppressive.

See the final issue of The Seditionist published in February of 1992.

 

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 00:30 | Link to Comment Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

I don't care what Jefferson said, the Constitution was poorly written and, I believe, purposefully vague, leaving it open to interpretation.   The Anti-Federalist Papers warned of the Federal power grab.  .gov has been corrupt and hungry for control from day one.

Hell, even Ron Paul supports DOMA.  I'm not gay, but where is marriage mentioned in the Constitution?  So much for being a Constitutional conservative.  But, he is the closest I've seen to a libertarian in any political office and I supported him.  My point being, Constitutional conservatives will interpret the Constitution to fit an agenda.  DOMA is just one example.

Doesn't matter if they're right, left, center, liberal, conservative.  They all (sans Ron Paul) want to steal my money and take away my rights.  They just want to hand my money to different entities and take away different rights.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 01:02 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Thats not true! They want to give you rights you never had before. Right to healthcare, gay marriage, other people's money and tons of other things. I find it funny that you perceive conservatives taking away your rights through DOMA,, when we have NEVER had gay marriage legal. Simply maintaining existing laws and culture is now extremist. I suppose resistance to throwing open our borders and granting legal status to illlegal immigrants is another abuse of the constitution representing an extremist  stance.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 01:50 | Link to Comment Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

You're talking to me like I'm a Democrat.  

The liberals don't want to give me any rights.  They want to give me handouts to get my vote.

I believe I have inherent rights.  .gov can't grant me rights, they can only try to take them with threat of force.

I didn't say DOMA took away any rights.  I said there is no mention of marriage in the Constitution.  Yet so-called Constitutional conservatives (Bob Barr, et al.) interpret the Constitution to defend the law.  As stated, DOMA was just an example.

Why should any government recognize ANY marriage?  Everyone should be an individual in the eyes of .gov.  If .gov feels the need to give goodies to someone upon my death, let me select a beneficiary.  Marriage is a social contract.  Why should anyone need a license from the state to get married?  You say "we have NEVER had gay marriage legal."  Why does it have to be legalized?  Why can't a guy have 6 wives?  Why does a third party give a shit how many wives he has?

Edit:  Actually, I don't qualify for the handouts.  Dems don't want to give me anything cuz I'm an employed white male.  Republicans don't want to give me anything because I'm not a corporation.  Neither side cares about my vote.

 

 

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 08:42 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I agree with much of what you say. It just don't see the constitution as flawed as you do. There is no way any document can protect our rights if we are not willing to do so for ourselves. "A republic if we can keep it".

My understanding of DOMA is simply that the federal goverment would be prevented from passing any laws that superceeded States rights to define marriage as they saw fit. The constitution is the defence of State's rights and while I do not support the choices all states make, I most definitely believe their rights are supreme to the Feds.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 08:39 | Link to Comment d edwards
d edwards's picture

Gov't really has no place being involved in marriage.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 00:56 | Link to Comment honestann
honestann's picture

As always, I shake my head whenever I read articles like this, that seriously discuss working within the existing system when the impossibility of that that is obvious.  Nonetheless, his comments make a few things obvious.

#1:  If "constitutional conservatives" (which more-or-less means "libertarians", I guess) ever want to collaborate with [less-insane, less-authoritarian] "liberals", that can only happen when republicans hold the white house, especially if they also hold one or both houses of congress.

Modern "liberals" have quite clearly demonstrated they are almost completely incapable of working against corrupt democrats.  Most "liberals" openly support even the most corrupt actions of democrats, so only when republicans are in control is there even a 1% chance for "liberals" collaborate with liberty-advocates.

#2:  The fact that liberals "fear corporations" is interesting to me.  I know most "liberals" seem to hate corporations, but... fear?  And the author says the reason many liberals are so strongly "pro-powerful-government" is to protect them from corporations.  That's interesting.  In fact, if true, that's very interesting.

Okay, if "liberals" hate and fear corporations above all, and only believe we need monster government to protect us from corporations, we have a solution!

The solution is to collaborate with liberals to eliminate corporations!  This eliminates the need for big government as far as they're concerned.  Remember, there were no corporations when the USA began.  Every business was owned and run by one individual or a parternship of multiple individuals.  The important point is, those real, physical, living, breathing human individuals were 100% responsible for every action the company took, both financially and criminally.

The fact is, corporations today are inherently evil.  This should be obvious to every human being with a brain, and made evident by the synonym for "corporation", which is "limited liability fictitious entity".  Perhaps the fact that corporations are fictions (they don't really exist) won't motivate "liberals" very much, since their overwhelming favorite is "government" which is also a "fictitious entity" (doesn't exist).  But the "limited liability" part surely has to royally anger "liberals", since it emphasizes how criminal minded republican scumbags can grossly abuse human beings, and completely get away with such actions because "the corporation is responsible" and "the corporation has limited liability" and "the corporation cannot be imprisoned or executed, and in modern times, essentially cannot be stopped (terminated).

Every libertarian or "constitutional conservative" should overwhelmingly support the elimination of "limited liability", since that is obviously nothing but a shield to protect rich scumbags from the destructive consequences of their actions.  And since the constitution did not envision "corporations" or legal "fictitious entities" (besides their bogus governments), their elimination would return everything to the state that was created by the constitution.

-----

Don't worry, I don't think any of the above is practical.  And I certainly don't want to be seen as supporting the delusion that "government exists".  It doesn't.  The entire topic is completely absurd, as any honest observant human can easily see.

Nonetheless, I found these notions interesting, even though irrelevant.  Not that individuals on the left and right couldn't collaborate.  But they won't.  Not to any degree that matters, even with a republican administration and congress to provide a target for their hate and energies.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 01:55 | Link to Comment runningman18
runningman18's picture

Where in th article does the author suggest that we "work within the system"?  Did you even read it?

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 02:51 | Link to Comment honestann
honestann's picture

Did he say "eliminate the fiction that is government"?  Did he say "eliminate the fictions that are the political parties"?  Did he say "eliminate corporations"?  No, he talks about working within the system as far as I can tell.  Yes, I did read it.  And yes, "constitutional conservatives" are part of the existing system.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 09:44 | Link to Comment runningman18
runningman18's picture

He pointed out the dangers of all of those things, so you might want to re-read the article instead of skimming over it as you obviously did.  In the last line the author says-

"If you want to avoid being caught in the tides of history with your proverbial pants down, or being used by elitists like pawns in a brutal game of global chess, consider quitting the system entirely and adopting a more independent position."

Did you just not catch that?

You're also avoiding my question.  What line in the article did the author state that we should "work within the system"?  Or are you just operating on biased and presumptive interpretation? 

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 22:12 | Link to Comment honestann
honestann's picture

Yes, I caught that.

I also caught this and other similar formulations:

They don't know how to classify or pigeonhole us, and they certainly don't have the capacity to argue with us on a rational level because half the story has gone over their heads. And so, they follow the natural human inclination, which is to hate and despise what one does not understand and what one cannot quantify. In the eyes of bewildered Democrats (and some elitist Republicans) we are extremists, because they have never been confronted before with people who are so fully committed and immovable in their principles. Uncompromising opponents, unshakeable opponents, are the most terrifying opponents.

Unless I really am making a big mistake here, all those "us" and "we" refer to that aggregate he calls "constitutional conservatives" or "tea-party".  That is part of the current system.  Hey, even I will agree that most people who classify themselves as "consitutional conservatives" or "tea-party" seem to be significantly less harmful than conventional democrats and republicans.  However, they are part of the current system.  Are they not?

Unless things in the USSA completely changed since I escaped ~3 years ago, both "constitutional conservatives" and "tea-party" folks are out there trying to get candidates elected, and trying to get laws eliminated or implemented, and thus definitely advocate working within the system.

If you have read what I write in ZH, you understand what I mean by not working within the system.  First step, acknowledge that so-called "government" and "corporation" are fictions, and do not exist.  To attempt anything via government or corporation is to work within the system.

Or let me put this another way if that completely correct and valid formulation is too difficult for you.  If 30 people sit around a table and craft a document, then sign at the bottom, is there any legitimate basis for the entirety of mankind (or on a specific continent) to be obligated and controlled by those people, or that document?  How about 240 years later when all the signators are long dead?

If you say yes, you are a craven predator.  Every honest individual asked that question has to admit that 30 people cannot legitimately obligate or control 300,000,000 people or 7,000,000,000 people just because they signed their freaking names on a freaking piece of paper.  And sorry, being in Phili doesn't change anything, and calling that piece of paper a "constitution" doesn't either.

The "system" that people "work within", including the author as far as I can tell, actually believe and accept the utterly insane proposition that 30 people have a legitimate basis to enslave 300,000,000 to 7,000,000,000 people or more, and do so for eternity.

THAT is the system I reject, and the system the author does not reject, as far as I can tell.  Do you disagree with that judgement?  Do you believe the author says "us" (constitutional conservatives), but intends to disband every government (and corporation)?  If so, I came away with a different impression.

In case you believe in democracy or representative democracy or any variant of this, let me be clear.  Even if every other human being on planet earth votes to kill me, or harm me, or steal from me, or cage me, or control/limit my actions --- that is wrong, unethical, predatory and completely unacceptable.  Which means, the only "system" that exists, or is valid and legitimate, is a system that fully adopts individualism, and rejects every collective fiction.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 09:42 | Link to Comment Abaco
Abaco's picture

I somewhat disagree.  The democrat party is unabashedly statist.  The republican party is also statist but hides behind a potempkin village of supporting limited government. It is the rhetoric that gets them elected. Until there are at least two parties advocating for opposing views there is no hope for any political solution. As one who was registered epublican for many years I have come to the conclusion that the republican party must be abandoned and destroyed to make room for a political party that is actually anti-statist and actually anti fascist.  It is the only way to do away with the neutering deception that the republican party has become.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 08:28 | Link to Comment 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Come on now... 99 out of 100 conservatives are FAKE CONSERVATIVES.

Fri, 11/01/2013 - 08:58 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

People will use any ideology for the purpose of obtaining power, either for it's own sake or to progress their own agenda. This is true of EVERY organization, from boy scouts to the Pope. That does not mean that the stated goals of these organizations are particularly bad or good. This is another reason why true conservatives are against centralized power, as it is well understood that power is the seed for corruption. This is what makes advancement of the conservative agenda impossible through normal organizational means. Its only rebirth comes AFTER parasitic corruption has destroyed it's host. Centralized power is the enemy. Conservatives know this and liberals do not. Most can agree with the basic premise that liberalism puts forth, but we understand that their dependency on a centrally controlled power structure ensures it will ultimately destroy the entire infected system. This is a terminal illness and death of the "system" is the only cure. What we have to fear is the possibility of a "zombie" society that lives in the interim. I believe the system as we knew it is already dead and all is left are the zombies, walking and eating everything living (freedom loving independent thinker) thing. This zombie-ism is being perpetrated by gov printing and theft and will ultimately make things much worse than "death" economically.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!