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Ebay Expands Accepted Digital Currencies, Says PayPal May One Day Incorporate BitCoin

Tyler Durden's picture




 

First it was China hinting that where Silk Road failed in monetizing, pardon the pun, BitCoin, the world's most populous nation could soon take the lead. Then, none other than private equity titan Fortress said it had great expectations for the digital currency. Now, it is eBay's turn to announce that it is preparing to expand the range of digital currencies it accepts, adding that "its payment unit PayPal may one day incorporate BitCoin." But not just yet. FT reports that according to eBay CEO John Donahoe, "digital currency is going to be a very powerful thing."

The ecommerce group, which has more than 124m active users, is initially focusing on incorporating reward points from retailers’ loyalty schemes into its PayPal wallet.

 

“We are building the container so any retailer could put their loyalty points into the PayPal wallet,” Mr Donahoe said.

 

"There is a limit to how many cards you will carry, or remembering what points you have or don’t have,” he said. “But in a digital wallet, you can put 50 different loyalty cards.”

 

Mr Donahoe said Ebay was not expanding the PayPal wallet to include Bitcoins, “but we are watching it”.

 

“That same technology could accept other digital currencies,” he said.

While traditional retailers have so far balked at even the vaguest idea of considering allowing BitCoin as a viable payment method, all that would take to start a seismic shift in perception would be one angel idea "investor" to show that it can be done. That someone may well be eBay, which in a radical attempt to curry favor with "fringe" buyers and sellers, could open up its ecommerce platform, which started as an auction side for small traders, but may well become something far bigger.

eBay’s efforts raise the possibility that virtual currencies such as Bitcoin may in time move beyond a niche role in online commerce. Some enthusiasts believe Bitcoin and other currencies that exist outside the traditional banking system represent the future of online payments.

 

The work to expand the PayPal wallet underlines the emergence of virtual payment systems as the latest front in the battle between the global technology giants, including Google and Apple, to increase consumer reliance on their products.

 

Corporate initiatives have sought to drum up interest in digital wallets for use online and on the high street. Companies from mobile and technology groups to banks and retailers are racing to use new mobile wallets to upend the payments business.

 

Most of these efforts have focused on new ways of paying with traditional currencies such as the pound and the dollar, rather than with niche mediums of exchange such as loyalty points or Bitcoin.

 

Bitcoin transactions are conducted through a peer-to-peer network of computers, outside the traditional banking system and largely beyond the control of governments and monetary authorities. The digital currency is accepted by very few retailers at present.

Paradoxically, the more accepted BitCoin becomes in the conventional marketplace, the more subject to various forms of mandatory regulation, supervision and enforcement it, its purchases, and its users will be. So will BitCoin ultimately become a victim of its own success? That remains to be seen, although what we do know is that neither eBay nor anyone else tightly embedded within the monetary fiat framework, is even close to contemplating expanding the Petrodollar cycle to include gold or other precious metals as viable legal (or illegal) tender.

 

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Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:38 | 4118100 Mercury
Mercury's picture

We'll see how long that lasts...

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:43 | 4118110 tsx500
tsx500's picture

BTC 300+ by Friday

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:02 | 4118123 Mercury
Mercury's picture

3000...on rumors of a tender offer for the entire float by Uncle Ben himself, the man with the deepest resume in the field of creating money with the personal computer.

 

Followed by a new  tax rate of 99.9% for digital currency capital gains.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:14 | 4118156 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

Note the difference .

Bitcoin stories innovative and foward thinking going with the price trend.

Gold stories bitter excuses as to why the current trend is wrong.

 

You gotta love markets.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:43 | 4118220 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

The analysis is simple. The Rothschild banker cartel mercilessly squash all competing monentary/fiat units. Bitcoin is increasingly accepted by establishment entities as means of exchange. Ergo, bitcoin is not a competiting monentary/fiat unit.

 

I can come to no other conclusion.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:44 | 4118478 fonestar
fonestar's picture

$100, $500, $1,000, $10,000, $100,000, $1,000,000 BTC.  Ultimately, the dollar price of Bitcoin is meaningless.

Each Bitcoin will continue to grow in mass until it causes a collapse in the fiat universe.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 00:06 | 4118507 markmotive
markmotive's picture

First bitcoin ATM going live in Vancouver shows a growing acceptance.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/11/venture-capital-muslim-money-exten...

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 00:57 | 4118562 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Something smells Fishy

Many others feel that there are global dealings afoot....go with what your gut is saying!

http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com.au/

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 02:21 | 4118644 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I will not trade the food I produce for an electron.

 

Stack On

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 06:48 | 4118770 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Instructions for those who wish to transfer their bullion funds in a post-dollar world:

1) Grind your bullion coins and bars into ultra fine powder.

2) Insert up to 100mg of bullion into your ethernet port.

3) Include source and destination ip address and blow really hard.

4) Your bullion will now reach anywhere on Earth.

 

So you can see, there is really no need to use Bitcoin in the future.  Plus it is extremely likely that we will have a world wide power outage at the same time that we have massive solar flares at the same time that we have a global currency crisis at the same time that we have martial law at the same time that Zog choses to crack down on the internet at the same time that people decide waiting six months to get paid isn't that bad.

Bitcoin, useless.... I rest my case.

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:44 | 4118873 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Gold has 79. Silver has 47. What's your point?

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 17:49 | 4120415 Oracle 911
Oracle 911's picture

You mean the particle or the gold-silver alloy?

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 23:21 | 4129606 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I won't either. +1 for you

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 11:33 | 4119340 Vigilante
Vigilante's picture

Bitcoin falls into the 'digital money' conspiracy we've been hearing for a few years.

I smell sulfur...

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:45 | 4118221 seek
seek's picture

The media is following orders. The fact that the coverage on bitcoin has shifted so much (from evil drug/black market currency to "has perfectly legal uses" per the coverage of the FBI silk road bust) actually alarms me a bit.

On the pro side, they aren't able to manipulate XBT like they have AU. On the con side, something doesn't smell right. I wonder if the openness of the blockchain isn't appealing to their snoopy-side.

I do think they'd rather people dump USD into bitcoin than gold eagles, it's the motivation behind this that has me curious.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:49 | 4118241 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I see your spidey sense is tingling too.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:12 | 4118287 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I stand by my initial claim, its a conduit for money, not actual money. Which is fine by me...ANYTHING...outside of central control is fine by me.

But its not money.

Money doesn't need debt to be real...or encryption or a power source or a device or internet or passwords.

Those are things providing access to, not the actual thing.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 02:25 | 4118646 aka_ces
aka_ces's picture

Money is what any group of people says it is.  Some groups have the power to force their moneteristic dictum/dicta on others.  People can change their minds about what money is.  People can be poly-moneteristic (!), believing in a multiple moneys.  Gold has value because some people believe it does.  This group may expand or contract.  Same with bitcoin.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 23:21 | 4129607 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

wrong.
Gold has value because of physics.
Belief & preference has NO role here.
Physics & chemistry imbues the values upon the human body & what we do with our biological systems and all interactions of those systems with all machines, some of which will have gold.
Physics determines the origin of gold from a supernova.
that's that. You can't choose if you need water or food. You NEED it. If gold serves as value for radiation shielding, for your teeth (as I do) or for electronics that you NEED (say, a pacemaker) then it's NOT a choice. Value is not what people agree to. Value is dictated by nature alone.
That which has no value can't be money. Bitcoin is one of those things which has NO value.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 13:51 | 4119687 twh99
twh99's picture

Excellent analysis.  My feelings exactly.

You use BTC as a tool only, not a store of value.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 03:58 | 4118698 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

>>I do think they'd rather people dump USD into bitcoin than gold eagles, it's the motivation behind this that has me curious.

It's a LOT easier to seize than PM's.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 06:59 | 4118778 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

So far, the FBI has been unable to seize most of the Pirate's stash.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 23:22 | 4129609 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

last i heard they got it all.
Can't use it but he can't either.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 11:50 | 4119375 Saro
Saro's picture

Like gold, how easy it is to seize depends on how paranoid you are.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 23:22 | 4129611 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

seize AND destroy. However it's a bit harder to seize and USE than pm's. Gold & silver can be found with some sleuthing & a metal detector.
Passwords can be snooped from keyboard monitoring & copying hard disks via trojan, worm or virus for whatever parts are needed. Both are hit/miss depending on conditions.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 23:23 | 4129614 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Are you fucking kidding me?
The volatility from fiat infusions for btc are far, FAR, FAR more than for gold or silver, or even 2x leveraged silver funds like AGQ or HZU (tsx).
I don't agree with that part of your comment but I wholeheartedly agree about the obvious support for btc preference over gold or silver in the media being highly suspect.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:21 | 4118172 SMG
SMG's picture

And take comfort in this...All your money is safe right there on the computer/internet/microSD card/mark of the beast.  Which the banksters can take control of whenever they feel like.

But don't worry it went up 100% percent in the last minute and some guy made $800,000 from $28 dollars by sitting on it a few years.  So I'm sure we're not trying to be suckered.

So you see it's much safer than silver in your hand or burried where they'll never find it.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:38 | 4118205 Big Brother
Big Brother's picture

What do you hope to accomplish other than the simplest inflation hedge by burying silver in the ground?  Let me know when you've been able to settle a payment to Paypal with physical silver.  It's an apples to oranges comparison. 

I see no difference between buying a widget on Ebay whether with a dollar or BTC.  In the end both transactions are done in 1s and 0s.  If there's a infinitessimally small chance some entity switches off the internet, the buyer/seller and eBay are both SOL.

Remember, this an encrypted digital currency.  The sun does not possess enough energy to iterate all 2256 possibe configurations to crack the password to a digital wallet.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:45 | 4118224 SMG
SMG's picture

Talk to me after the global debt laden currency collapse/derivative complex blowup.

Talk to me after the nukes between China/Russia/USA fly.

I'm sure you'll have no problem redeeming your encrypted digital currency.

 

PS.  I hope I'm wrong.

But as some say  Order from Chaos so I'm hedging my bets.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:50 | 4118244 Big Brother
Big Brother's picture

Duley noted...

Clearly a difference in time-frames:  known and short-term versus unknown and most likely (hopefully) longer term.  I was thinking more like if eBay/Paypal had BTC in place for the 2014 holiday season.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:35 | 4118352 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

holy shit the conversations on this site are depressing. best case scenario: bankers continue to rule over us debt slaves in an increasingly oppressive manner. worst case: thermo nuclear war. have a nice day! not saying i dont agree, just saying the long term side effects of alcoholism are starting to be severly outweighed by the short term benefits. or maybe ill just start doing acid all day. at least i wont be cognizant of the butt pounding we're subjected to.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:55 | 4118395 aphlaque_duck
aphlaque_duck's picture

Go to the jungle now, and drink ayahuasca.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 23:24 | 4129617 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

 

WTF! Depressing, on Zerohedge?
Shocked, I tell you, I am shocked.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:17 | 4118295 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Nobody would "redeem" nothing. It'd be used the same way it is today, to transact on the Internet. Now don't tell me the Internet won't exist because you'd make yourself look really stupid.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:42 | 4118359 SMG
SMG's picture

I don't know what the status of the internet will be in case of a crisis. It might be up or down, who knows?

I hope for your sake it will be up.  If it isn't though, what then?  Well you mocked some guy and called him stupid who questioned the possibity, so you'll always have that.

But if it isn't, then what?  Well you'll always have your self satisfaction, that and alot of hunger.

Good luck buddy,  I;m sure your sponsers will support you.

But if they don't. well I guess you starve. Good luck.

 

 

 

 

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 23:25 | 4129619 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The internet WON'T exist.
parts will exist & be regional.
Those fine undersea lines won't be there because they are target #1 for regional warfare. no bodies, no fuss, just economics of war.
Same with the satellites.
As for city-to-city within a nation, that depends on the local levels of war. A lot of these lines are easily discovered & cut and would be.
Only a FOOL would pretend this isn't happening very soon. You apparently are that fool.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:49 | 4118887 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

The stupid is strong in this one...

"Talk to me after the nukes between China/Russia/USA fly.
I'm sure you'll have no problem redeeming your encrypted digital currency."

So your finely irradiated corpse will have unusable PMs and my irradiated corpse will have a melted thumb drive. Jeezus, people enough with the Mad Max crap already.

Talk to me in a few billion years when the sun expands to the orbit of mars, then we'll see who has moar monies!

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:20 | 4118311 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

I can't buy a cold beverage at my local bar with Bitcoin. I can't even buy stupid shit on eBay with Bitcoin.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 01:22 | 4118593 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

I can do both, and a whole bunch more:

http://bitmit.net/

http://coinmap.org/

http://bitcoin.travel/

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 10:54 | 4119243 davidgdg
davidgdg's picture

http://www.individualpubs.co.uk/pembury/info.html

One of the best pubs in London ;-)

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 21:27 | 4129276 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Goldmoney already allows this.
As does Europac using the gold credit card.

As for cracking the digital wallet most users will type in  the right password, be snooped, and it will be gone. Just like that.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 05:17 | 4118724 Manipulism
Manipulism's picture

bitcoins-vast-overvaluation-seems-to-be-caused-by-usually-illegal-price-fixing

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:41 | 4118106 putaipan
putaipan's picture

this is both good news and bad news ... and still pretty unlikely- ebay owns paypal and makes money off of it's use. coming and going. paypal use of bitcoin will cost you and ebay will be burdened by the loss of "chargebacks"

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:53 | 4118126 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

They would simply institute a 3%surcharge on all bitcoin users. It could be done and most likely will be done. .

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:42 | 4118214 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

PayPal can act as a escrow agent which holds the BTC until the item has arrived at the buyers location and they release payment.  Maybe partial payment could be released to the seller once they provide tracking information if it is a known and trusted seller.  PayPal could charge a 2-3% escrow fee. 

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:41 | 4118108 Goldenballs
Goldenballs's picture

Replace it with what you want,confidence cannot be brought with debt backed promises.Gold and Silver will prevail as they have for 5000 years.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:48 | 4118118 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Bitcoin has a limited, known quantity.  Gold and silver do not.  New gold and silver is constantly being discovered and mined.  And as the price of gold and silver rise, the incentive for mining companies to dig up new areas increases.

Further, one cannot send gold and silver instantly to anyone in the world.  One cannot pass through government checkpoints and metal detectors with gold and silver.  With Bitcoin, both those things are possible.

Bitcoin will prevail.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:10 | 4118145 orez65
orez65's picture

"Bitcoin has a limited, known quantity"
Bitcoin quantity per new year = total last year qty + 2% of total last year qty
Until Bitcoin creators decide to change 2% to 4% or 10% or whatever the hell they decide.

" ... One can not send gold or silver instantly to anyone in the world"
Are you fucking kidding me?
Ever heard of a gold note?

"Bitcoin will prevail"
Until the Bitcoin owners decide to cash out.

If you want to speculate, Bitcoin is as good a game as any other speculation.
If you think that Bitcoin is money then you are full of shit.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:17 | 4118161 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

There is a known limit to how many bitcoins will ever exist.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:30 | 4118184 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

So if TPTB remove 1/2 of the 23 million coins ala Silk Road, and the price per BTC skyrockets to $15,000 usd per coin, how many ordinary consumers are going to buy a BTC unit to buy socks at Walmart.com?

This whole thing just does not seem logical to me.

Over.

**edit: assuming socks cost around $5.00 for a pack of 10.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:33 | 4118195 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

Who in your world takes gold and silver to Walmart to buy socks?

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:30 | 4118240 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

indians you dumb folker.

Who said anyone takes gold and silver to Walmart to buy socks? Dipshit.

The above comment assumes that Walmart DOTFUCKING COM accepts your glorious digital currency.

Over.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:35 | 4118203 PSEUDOLOGOI
PSEUDOLOGOI's picture

bitcoins are divisible to 8 decimal places. so the price for the socks would decrease.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:52 | 4118245 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

What if the price stayed the same but the pack became 3 instead of 10? Inflation by dilution.

Now your digicoins are fucked.

Over.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 09:41 | 4118999 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Holy Moses.

Ok, so I would take my $15,000 Bitcoin (your example) and buy 4 packages at 0.00133332 BTC and have two left over to donate.

Yeah, my "digicoins" are just fucked all over the place. Ill tell ya what, post your addy and ill mail you my two spare socks.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:51 | 4118370 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

I hereby order both of you to fucking READ carefully before you provide dipshit comments hereafter.

So be it.

Over.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 09:27 | 4118969 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

And you should learn more about bitcoin before spreading the stupid. Your inability to divide 5 by 15,000 logically speaks volumes.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 09:24 | 4118958 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

The answer?

0.00033333 BTC for your 5$ socks at Walmart. Pretty simple math, and BTC is divisible to that level.

I could then go to all4btc.com, gyft.com, or egifter.com, although two of those don't accept Walmart at the moment. No problem, plenty of stores on there that sell socks.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:18 | 4118167 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

> Until Bitcoin creators decide to change 2% to 4% or 10% or whatever the hell they decide.

Then it wouldn't be Bitcoin. The blockchain would fork into an altcoin and things would carry on as normal in the Bitcoin blockchain.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:40 | 4118213 PSEUDOLOGOI
PSEUDOLOGOI's picture

your choice of words is very poor and your statements are factually incorrect.

additionally you are in fantasyland.  I can send a bitcoin righ now to whomever I want without exchanging it for a "note" which involves another party no matter how you slice it...

where the hell would I get a "note" for a ounce of gold to send to some country where the poor fella never heard of your fuckin note?

you have no reason to vent poison at something you clearly do not have enough knowlege about unless you are threatened by it, or you had an opportunuty to spend $27 in 2009 on btc but didn't or you are just a anti-bitc troll

so go study up btc first... then spew later

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:12 | 4118285 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Even better, where could I get a gold "note" to send 3 micrograms of gold to someone on the opposite side of the globe.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:20 | 4118304 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

But I can't buy groceries or pay the mortgage with bit coin. It is just a placeholder for the real currency.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 20:19 | 4129029 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

ANYWHERE btc can work with a network & encryption, a GPG / PGP signed note declaring an amount of silver or gold can also work.
GPG can do anything bitcoin can but the signature, unlike a hash code, has a real trust level associated to real tangible goods a person can own & vouch for.
It's up to each person to regard an originator as untrusted.
As it is ALL BTC are untrusted to me: their maximum value is zero to me. I can get no assurance any tangible value comes from them & I can be assured their fiat value will drop 50% in a day so I want NONE.

When you see btc at $2 then at $0.20 you'll be sorry.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:54 | 4118898 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

"" ... One can not send gold or silver instantly to anyone in the world"
Are you fucking kidding me?
Ever heard of a gold note?"

If you can't hold it, you don't own it.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 20:16 | 4129015 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You can't hold bitcoins: therefore they have no value that you own.
they are valueless trading tokens.
Worse, you can't control that a person would send a real item of value in return FOR a btc.
Sending btc, whole or divided portions, is useless at worldwide instant speeds when the GOODS you need FOR THEM can't move at the same speed.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 11:55 | 4119390 Saro
Saro's picture

"Until Bitcoin creators decide to change 2% to 4% or 10% or whatever the hell they decide".

Bitcoin doesn't work that way.  It's not software that can just be changed on a whim; it's a protocol that all participants agree to abide by or  their transactions are ignored.  The % is baked into the protocol.  If you try to award yourself more bitcoins than the protocol allows, you'll be ignored.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 20:15 | 4129011 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

it's open-source. it DOES work that way. As soon as those who change the code do so without rejection it WILL work that way.
Gold & silver are from a supernova: not open-source. you can't change your mind & make more.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:35 | 4118201 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Bitcoin is for morons.  One 51% attack and it's all worthless instantly.  Gold doesn't physically evaporate out of your safe.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:44 | 4118218 PSEUDOLOGOI
PSEUDOLOGOI's picture

btc is complimentary to Au and Ag, not their replacement...  Not sure why people feel otherwise.

btc is a competitor to fiat and the WHOLE Centralized banking system.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:57 | 4118260 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

Especially when considered as a protocol (which it is), and not a currency...

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:08 | 4118281 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

If bitcoin is for morons then I suggest you buy some.
Perhaps you should stop repeating nonsense about a 51% attack you read somewhere in a 3 year old forum post.
Compare today's compute power of bitcoin network against the rest and report back when you've done your homework and in the meantime spare us your BS.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 07:55 | 4118813 Thisson
Thisson's picture

The proper comparison is the computing power of the bitcoin network vs the computing power of the US Government.  The Government's computing power dwarfs that of the bitcoin network, the Government doesn't like bitcoin and has arranged for the bitcoin-related businesses and marketplaces to lose access to their bank accounts.  So it's not a huge leap to see that it's a matter of time before the Government uses the 51% method to take down the bitcoin network.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:38 | 4118855 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Got any sources?  The Bitcoin network is currently backed by a hash rate of 3,868,459 GH/s.   What's the U.S. Gov's?

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 20:13 | 4129005 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

US gov has more than that in just ONE network in just ONE Pentagon building.

Man... you are dreaming in technicolor.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 06:07 | 4118744 Arturo
Arturo's picture

What about incomming new Bitcoint competitors? Virtual currencies are limitless.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:35 | 4118849 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

If they offer new features that are truly important, it is possible those features could be incorporated into the Bitcoin protocol. However, as it stands now, Bitcoin offers almost 4 million gigahash per second processing power backing up the network (Mining).  This is stronger than 1000 of the world's fastest and most expensive super computers (of which only a few dozen exist).  Other virtual currencies do not come close. Miners and Bitcoin users could and would switch over to another virtual currency if a good reason exists (it were profitable to do so). 

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 20:12 | 4128995 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

NONSENSE in defiance of all known physics.
Gold & silver are always limited and from the finite limit only a portion can ever be found by humans where we can afford to dig.
Bitcoin has nothing on gold & silver for limitations: you need a supernova to make more & it's harder to dig up undiscovered gold than it is to "mine" undiscovered bitcoin hashes.
AND someone can just make another clone of bitcoin but NO ONE can make a clone of gold.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:52 | 4118122 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

Gold, silver and the network. Bitcoin will be the way to move gold and silver around the planet without using those clunky old monster boxes and shipping containers. As long as the network is operating, Bitcoin will work. Last winter, it cost ~45 bitcoins for an ounce of gold. Right now, it's about 6.5 bitcoins for an ounce of gold. The network is already in existence and there's no debt attached to a bitcoin, so instant transactions with no third party counterrisk is as valuable as any other currency or commodity.

For those deluded souls that want to say, "B...b...but the gubmint will shut the innernet down and yer buttcoins won't work!", save it. No government can shut down the entire internet. They can shut it down for those people that can't get on the net unless some telco is selling it to them, but if a connection can be made between two remote machines, the internet will always work for the millions of people that are hip to the technology. It's like saying, "The gubmint says fire is illegal and you can't make no ice no more cuz gubmint said so."

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:37 | 4118207 Thisson
Thisson's picture

A "51% attack" by the Government against the Bitcoin network is trivial compared to the things they have already demonstrated the ability to do, such as PRISM.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:43 | 4118219 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

The hash rate is a little too high at this point for anyone to mount a 51% attack, the Almighty Gubmint included.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 01:26 | 4118601 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

Approximately:

$560,120,619

 

That is more thant he military expenditures of Slovenia.

 

http://coinometrics.com/bitcoin/brix

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 07:57 | 4118814 Thisson
Thisson's picture

The USG spends that in the blink of an eye.  Thank you for this additional evidence that the USG could take down the Bitcoin network through this method for only ~560 million dollars.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:04 | 4118823 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

No, they could spend that much to cause a minor inconvenience to the network.  Because of the blockchain, the miners will just roll back the transactions on the illegitimate chain (assuming it forks) like they did in March. 

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 19:55 | 4128899 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No mechanism exists to determine an "illegitimate" bitcoin.

They all will pass the hash test, they all will be generated in the normal manner, it won't be a fork, they just have more computing power available to simultaneously generate more at a much higher speed than your cpu & distributed computing networks can do.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 19:18 | 4128726 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Those containers provide more security & a more reliable delivery than the network, especially once the network is cut.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:43 | 4118109 Obese-Redneck
Obese-Redneck's picture

Ted Nugent pays ex-chief Kessler in Bitcoins for ramping him in the dumper. And you can take that to the bank.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:23 | 4118179 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

The Bitbank? I hope they have a back door for Ted to enter..

Over.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:48 | 4118111 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Beware of The Fed's "If you can't beat them..." strategy.

BTW, I no longer trust PayPal further than I can spit into a strong headwind. Nor should you.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:34 | 4118202 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Any specific reason(s)?

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:11 | 4118286 James
James's picture

Any specific reasons?

 

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:58 | 4118388 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Thanks for the website.

Informative and illuminating to say the least.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:45 | 4118114 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Can't wait until ebay accepts silver!

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 10:58 | 4119254 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

How?  With a 1000 mile pneumatic tube?

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:46 | 4118117 Being Free
Being Free's picture

Odd isn't it how stories about bitcoin are always accompanied by a picture of silver coins.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 20:49 | 4118120 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Odd how silver keeps falling in value while Bitcoin keeps rising in value.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:03 | 4118137 Being Free
Being Free's picture

So what you really like are dollars, eh?

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:05 | 4118271 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

No.  I like the best currency of all:  Bitcoin.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:30 | 4118457 Being Free
Being Free's picture

lol - yeah, "Play with me on skype for 1 bitcoin." http://jppcxclcwvkbh3xi.onion/messages/5347.html

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:37 | 4118209 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Bitcoins doesn't ever "fall in value" eh?  Riiiiiiight....

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:47 | 4118229 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

Spyker,

 

Can bitcoin be devalued by creating bitcoin2, 3, 4 etc.?

Or what happens if Litecoin, Namecoin, and PPCoin take off?

Would that be analogous to Platinum, Gold, Silver  or would they bring down the value?

 

 

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:02 | 4118266 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Of course it wouldn't be. Don't be silly.
No one in their right mind would claim bitcoin is but a currency.
Its price did appreciate close to 100% since XenoFrog made that great call about bitcoin crash 4 weeks ago.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:06 | 4118273 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

"Or what happens if Litecoin, Namecoin, and PPCoin take off?"

Why would they?  Do you understand network effects?

Nobody cares about those other digital currencies because their network of users who accepts them is much smaller than Bitcoin's.  Bitcoin has first-mover advantage, so everyone prefers to use it.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:16 | 4118293 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

Didn't down vote you btw.

And no, I don't know shit about "network effects"

Just asking questions. Actually downloading bitcoin qt right now. 204 weeks behind...

 

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:19 | 4118301 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

194 weeks

 

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:21 | 4118307 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

t-minus 189 weeks

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:09 | 4118417 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Post your btc address

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 00:57 | 4118565 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

You're doing it wrong.  Don't download the blockchain, you don't need to.

Use the "MyWallet" app for Chrome/Firefox.  It's a plugin you can easily find by googling it.  It's made by a company called "blockchain.info".

Or if you have an Android phone, you can get the "Mycelium Wallet".

These are my two favorite apps for Bitcoin.  They don't require you to get the blockchain.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:28 | 4118322 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Hey Spy ker speed,
Do you think that all central banks will adopt bitcoins after the grand reset as the defacto global currency? Or is Bitcoin going to gut all the CB's leaving them impotent?

Thank you for your time and patience in education me r.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 01:00 | 4118568 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

No, because central banks can't manipulate Bitcoin, and there's no reason for the layman to accept "Bitcoin-backed" tokens/paper when he can easily accept the real thing.

If a bank or government offers people "Bitcoin-backed" tokens/paper, the people will just be like, "Uhh... why don't you just give us real Bitcoins?  They're just as easy to use as paper."

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 17:10 | 4128354 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The existence of btc to fiat exchanges means central banks can manipulate bitcoin from 0.001 to $1,000,000,000,000 if they want.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 01:34 | 4118607 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

Then plan is to eliminate central banks and markets. 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 07:58 | 4118817 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Forget those - what happens if there's a WalMartCoin or an ExxonMobileCoin?

Would you invest in an intellectural property business with zero barriers to entry to competitors?  I sure as hell wouldn't.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:20 | 4118165 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Oh boy, here we go.

Over.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:29 | 4118186 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Exactly.

Why is it, whenever a bitcoin article appears, it shows real coins/money and not the digitized ethereal thing it claims to be? Pretty sure the Fed isn't printing money either or there would be pallets as high as the Washington Monument, just digitizing a claim on money.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:46 | 4118230 Big Brother
Big Brother's picture

I typed in "digitized ethereal" into a google images search...

This is what BTC looks like as you contend they claim to be:

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&sa=N&biw=1115&bih=608&hl=en&tbm=isch&t...

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:54 | 4118253 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...without getting into the complexities of my mind via a Rorschach test, it looks like impact craters or...just as I suspected...many fingers leading back to one ;-)

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:26 | 4118182 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It's all academic at this point. There is just as much profit potential in free range chickens as there is in any of the fiat flavors of 'currency' speculation. Bit coin (as well as PM's for that matter) is a niche market for the foreseeable future......

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:42 | 4118215 Boondocker
Boondocker's picture

Bitcoin, fiat, gold and silver will not be helpful when it all goes to hell.  In the meantime, it will be interesting to see what sort of attempts at control by governments get put in place.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:57 | 4118258 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

I'm with you Boon.

I'm buying sterno, rice and water, lots of sterno, rice and water. And big blue 55 gallon plastic drums with locking lids to keep the cooties out during dry storage.

Over.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:47 | 4118236 PSEUDOLOGOI
PSEUDOLOGOI's picture

BTC Bitchez!

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:50 | 4118242 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

If you were to zoom out, We look like idiots,

pretending a new contrived currency will solve (any of) our problems.

And if that's not what the Bitcoiners are doing, then BTC goes into the gambling/speculation/commodity bucket, doesn't it.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 21:58 | 4118259 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Bitcoin solves transaction cost and (pseudo)anonymous sale problem, to name but two.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:50 | 4118305 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Yea, created by the anonymous ethergods.... Trust them, they are gods and they won't show their faces. Smart huh.

Some dummies taught me that commerce and more importantly currency requires trust.

You need to spend more time building my trust. This is a colossal fail except for speculators.

Over.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 00:31 | 4118537 BTFDemocracy
BTFDemocracy's picture

The Bitcoin protocol source code is available for anyone to evaluate. Download and open, read through and be the judge.

It doesn't matter who created it if they released the source code for everyone to evaluate.

Reading your posts, appears your knowledge comes in short. I think you need more research.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:21 | 4118290 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

All nonsense. Sorry Bitcoin fans.

eBay noticed that last it checked customer, vendors, suppliers and landlords had no interest in accepting Bitcoin for payment.

Bitcoin makes money for its owners, just like the Fed.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:26 | 4118324 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

What's the problem with money making?
Does your real estate or other property not make money for you?
Or can you not tell the difference between government imposed fiat and cryptocoin? If you can't, go study it and come back to comment later, this post won't go away.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:02 | 4118404 adr
adr's picture

Currency isn't supposed to make you money, its supposed to represent the value of your labor that you can trade for objects produced from someone else's labor.

When money can be made without labor, you destabilize the economy and create the massive chasm between the rich and the labor class. Because those that work for a living are too busy working to try and figure out the best way to steal wealth from others.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 01:00 | 4118570 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

"Currency isn't supposed to make you money"

If this is the case, then why do I always see gold bugs bragging about how gold will shoot up in price one day?

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 09:01 | 4118911 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Exactly. Or "the PM prices are being artificially beat-down because of Rothchilds/Bankers/Zenu". If FRNs don't matter, then the $/ounce doesn't matter.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:48 | 4128281 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

correction:
since FRN's won't matter later then the number of ounces you get now is what matters.
Since FRN's matter a lot now, as work hours are forced by law & by guns to be put into dollars, euros, yen, etc., then the price matters NOW.
The lower the better.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:46 | 4128270 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

only fake gold bugs do that.
Real gold bugs know that gold will be the ONLY money, vs aper that will go away for good.
The real price of gold is in other tangibles: oil, land, food, etc.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:16 | 4118292 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Double post

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:21 | 4118312 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Who gives a shit what SpyPal does?
If they attempt to control bitcoin in any way, it will be forked and people will move on, while they'll end up with a bunch of (worthless) 1's and 0's.
SpyPal doesn't get to decide which bitcoin survives. End users do.
I hope big business accepts bitcoin ASAP because I can't wait for a better, anonymous version to appear.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 22:59 | 4118399 adr
adr's picture

So Walmart decides to accept Bitcoin, so a group of Bitcoin supporters don't like it and break off into a different block chain. They claim their block is the real Bitcoin, but the people that want to use Bitcoin at Walmart claim their block is Bitcoin. 

Which one do you buy or use?

The problem with Bit coin is the blockchain itself. Although my dollar has a serial number, it isn't tracked. When I walk into a local hardware store and buy fertilizer, and then buy some gasoline with cash, there isn't an electronic trail of everything bought going right back to my Bitcoin wallet.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 01:18 | 4118587 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

"So Walmart decides to accept Bitcoin, so a group of Bitcoin supporters don't like it and break off into a different block chain. They claim their block is the real Bitcoin, but the people that want to use Bitcoin at Walmart claim their block is Bitcoin."

Why would anyone want to use a currency that's supported at fewer stores?  The new "zero walmart" Bitcoin would be exactly like the other existing Bitcoin, but it would be artificially hindered.  And Walmart could easily start to accept it simply by creating new addresses on the other blockchain.

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about.  I don't mean to bash you, but Bitcoin is way over your head.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:17 | 4118428 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

BTC is fast on its way - or already there - to ensuring all transactions are mapped to IDs and permanently recorded.  In time every transaction will be evaluated for taxation.  That's the natural progression of a non tangible currency.  It's Biblical.  You'll need a number to buy and sell.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 10:02 | 4119042 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Only if you, personally, link your ID to your randomly generated Bitcoin address.  You have choices here and more anonymizing technologies are coming online as we speak.  A problem that Bitcoin does solve, however, is being able to know nothing about your counter-party except his/her random address and being able to trust that the money sent to you is 100% legitimate and non-refundable.  Importantly, this is performed in a decentralized fashion with no central issuing authority.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 11:27 | 4119318 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Govt money laundering rules are forcing exchanges to comply with IDing users.

"A problem that Bitcoin does solve, however, is being able to know nothing about your counter-party except his/her random address and being able to trust that the money sent to you is 100% legitimate and non-refundable."

How exactly does it do this?

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:52 | 4120674 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

The blockchain contains the record of every bitcoin transaction.  Since nobody trusts anybody else this record has to be openly distributed to every "full node"and 100% verified. If you run Bitcoin-QT you are running a full node.  Any coins being sent to you must link to a previous transaction in the blockchain.  On a side note, newly mined coins (approx. 25 BTC every 10 minutes) are issued by the Bitcoin network. These coins have not and will have not AML/KYC tagging information.  More at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin 

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:34 | 4118465 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

ebay/paypal accepting bitcoin would be a home run for BTC.   nobody could really talk smack about it after that point

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:41 | 4118473 StillSilence
StillSilence's picture

PM's lack the abiity to transfer worldwide instantly. Bitcoin lacks any real world representation. Combine them and it's as close to perfect as you are gonna get, IMHO.

A true and honest banking system with real money (not electronic blips and certainly not ever expanding debt) and the ability to transfer funds which would always be redeemable in whatever you were using as money. You could use eggs or oil or any other product, as long as it was fully redeemable. Obviously anything but PMs would fail as being practical and they would not last, but the point is it needs to be redeemable to any user in order to be as fair as possible to all.

If you want a system that works perfectly in the real hand-to-hand world as well is cyber land, being interchangeable and completley fair and honest to everyone involved, I think this would be it.

 

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:42 | 4128255 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The only world-wide instant transfer I want is one that doesn't sacrifice my security of funds or location.
There is no such system, bitcoin included. I'll settle for cash in hand, gold & silver.

Sun, 11/03/2013 - 23:49 | 4118485 StillSilence
StillSilence's picture

No good or service has neither a fixed nor an infinite quantity. Surely the market for any item would be heavily influened if either was ever discovered about it. Just the same, money itself should not have either of those qualities for the very same reason. It must represent real economic energy....Bitcoin is fixed and debt notes are (potentially/eventually) infinite.....I sense problems with both. 

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 00:28 | 4118533 GumbyMe
GumbyMe's picture

eBay, IRS, and NSA all want PayPal to use Bitcoin, this way they can keep track of the currency, users, and all of their transactions.  Big Brother wants to know.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 01:37 | 4118611 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

"They" can keep track of Bitcoin, users and all of their transactions very easily.  In fact, anyone can:

http://blockchain.info/

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 04:11 | 4118704 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

Awesome. We can see that 19j63VomeEohxhdFfqAMnEK7mcJGZkiCTi sent 0.6906617 BTC to 1BaywUbKzHna2Ev1cJLcDN9tjc8ZovsuwM.

Unless one is dumb enough to attach one's name to their bitcoins, how does this help track who is sending to whom?

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:03 | 4118819 Thisson
Mon, 11/04/2013 - 08:06 | 4118825 shitco.in
shitco.in's picture

Have you ever heard of Palantir, and the fact that the exchanges have KYC/AML controls in place:

http://www.palantir.com/2011/10/govcon-7/

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 09:07 | 4118925 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

"Unless one is dumb enough to attach one's name to their bitcoins..."

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 16:40 | 4128248 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

IP addresses & packets sent. Real-time snooping. IP address easily traced to physical location.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!