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Obamacare 'Truth' (In One Cartoon)
...this is the not the Obamacare you are looking for...
(h/t Jim Quinn's Burning Platform Sunday Funnies)
Oh and just to clarify "YOUR" misunderstanding...
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"'I quit when medicine was placed under State control, some years ago,' said Dr.
Hendricks. 'Do you know the skill it demands, and the years of passionate, merciless,
excruciating devotion that go to acquire that skill? That was what I would not
place at the disposal of men whose sole qualification to rule me was their capacity
to spout fradulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of enforcing
their wishes at the point of a gun.'"
~ Dr. Hendricks, on why he went Galt, Atlas Shrugged
Dr Hendriks comes across as an American version of the greedy little VMOs I have to work alongside in Australia, and exemplifies the concern stated in a 1970's BMJ Editorial commenting that Medical School entrants were becoming far more concerned with their income, than with providing Patient care.
You want your Clinicians to be greedy - well, that's your "choice" - and this seems to be one of the reasons for the jaw dropping costs associated with US Healthcare.
I work for the Aussie Public System. Maybe I could get "paid more" outside as a VMO or Private Consultant, but money isn't everything, and for me job satisfaction is far more important. I studied Medicine 'cause I wanted to look after Patients, not because I wanted to become an "overnight millionaire".
Wacko -
My insurance is $33k/year for a family of 4 (NYC), of which my employer covers about half. In addition, I have a a $2,500 flex spending account to cover deductibles, copays and "the good doctors", i.e. those who don't take insurance.
The last time I saw a doctor was in 1989. Unlike folks in Canada, when I get sick, I get well again. My grandpa was 94 when he took his first aspirin because "he had a headache".
It's not hard to live and stay healthy, but I agree you need to be insured for the unexpected. Doctors visits, blood tests, pregnancy, birth control, the sniffles, dental, braces, vision and the occasional aches and pains are not insurable events. Give me a break.
O'care even covers goddamn shrinks and substance abuse counseling, for fuck sake.
Does "bellyup" include DEAD?
I guess you don't understand insurance, do you?
It's a hedge against rare unforseen events by pooling risk. Read my car insurance post above.
Bingo. Obamacare plans are a combination of pre-paid medical (whether you use it or not) and insurance (the major medical portion). As you said, INSURANCE is a hedge against unlikely events (not things that happen to or are generally needed by everyone). I would add that it is a hedge against unlikely events that would result in a large financial burden. Getting a flu shot, and annual physical, going to the doctor once or twice a year for something -- are hardly unlikely events, nor ones that put people at a large financial risk.
If we have to swallow any plans mandated by government, they surely should be nothing more than major medical after a sizeable deductible (eg. $3000-$5000). That is the only way to create prudent use of the medical system and competitive shopping. If people want to pay more for additional care - they can do it, but not be forced to do it.
Obamacare is hideous. And I assure you the website will never work properly (though they will tout it as "working"). The website had to be conceptualized by someone who has zero understanding of IT and business analysis.
Only people with assets to protect would bother with (non-mandated) insurance, so long as care is provided at public hospitals.
The vast majority of Americans have no assets or savings whatsoever.
Commodities Bitchez!
You really have no idea what you are talking about. United Healthcare, the company who bribed Obama, sent a good brofriend to the White House every month to butter him up, the company that spent millions lobbying, funding, bribing congress and the president for Obamacare, the company that created the website and now has another contract to fix it, the company that has a huge Medicaid contract with .gov already, is one of the biggest frauds in the industry. I have had personal dealings with this company when I lived in the U.S. on several occasions. So until you have a clue as to what you are talking about, I suggest you remain silent and learn from people who may actually know something about what the truth is rather than spewing Democratic Party talking points in a place where you will never receive a positive reception for your propaganda.
No need to be mean. He is reading and responding. I suspect his opinion on "bad insurance plans" is already more nuanced. He will realize his mistake in a few years if he is a maker. If he is a taker then we can never change his mind, but maybe we can plant a seed.
+1 even in fight club we can try to educate. Telling someone how stupid they are seems to be the norm here now. I personally do not consider name calling a 'fight'. If your argument is sound others will realize who is correct without pointing out again and again someones ingnorance. Junk away fuckers don't worry you wont hurt my feelings, you will only make my point for me.
Agree in principle, but sometimes stupid simply needs to be called out.
Yes, BB. Sometimes, not every post. Sometimes I read ZH now and I feel like I am listening to my kids... "you're dumb.... NO you're dumb... No you're dumber..... No you're the one whoes dumber..."
Bring back the math quiz before posting.
With Timer, lest they Google for the answer. ;-)
I was not being mean and did not call him or anyone stupid. I do not, at least try never to, make ad hominum arguments or personal attacks. I did, however, suggest that he has no idea what he is talking about... which is not an ad hominem attack. There are many things lacking in everyone´s knowledge, including my own. When we lack sufficient information to create an informed opinion it is best that we remain silent and learn from those who do have sufficient information to have an informed opinion. That is all that I said, other than making note of the fact that he was quoting, almost verbatim, a Democratic Party talking point, which I am sure you will be hearing echoed on the MSM in the coming weeks. Calling it propoganda is simply stating a fact.
I want to convert him to the cult of Tyler. I dont want to annoy him and run him off.
We are all missionaries lol.
He didn't like my plan even though it paid out almost a million dollars to save my son's life.
Mine was NOT a "junk" plan.
It has been cancelled.
Mine was not a junk plan either. Cancelled. Replaced by a plan with a higher deductible and higher out of pocket max, along with a premium 80% higher.
Mine was a junk plan and was cancelled but that proves nothing. It was all I had though and as a self employed family man with a kid with some problems, it was the best I could do. With my own $$$ not .govs or any employer I don't know what I will have now.
And yet few are ready to direct their anger at the real swindlers and criminals: the Health Insurance Cartel. Obamacare was written by them and for them. The Fascist business model at work. Have the governments enforce a health system where the Cartel is free to charge what it wants. Blame the Obama administration if you want, but they are just bought and paid for toadies for the Health Insurance Cartel. After the bank bailouts, this is the biggest con game and swindle by the billionaire oligarchs on the American people.
Yes, the insurance companies will benefit in the short run, but the people who installed Obama know what they are doing. Obamacare is designed to destroy the medical industry as we know it, destabilize the US economy, and demoralize the American population.
Keep your eye on the ball here. It's important.
How does anyone. feel good about insurance>
Unless your stupid or a con.
It's like you go the gas station and you give a guy in a suit to pay for your $10.00 of gas with a $20 dollar bill you get $10.00 gas, the guy in the suite gives you $6.90 back!
You say this isn't right, he smiles its' a law. you owe me or someone else.
Insurance the only free ride is the Insurance companys.
Betting against your self.. is just stupid.
USA has one of the worst and it's not going to get better.
More money for the people that have screwed it up to start with.
Think about it.
Peace
IMHO, insurance is good when it is really insurance - pooling risk in the event of an unlikely occurance that creates a significant financial hardship. Think of fire insurance on homes. Few homes burn down - but some do and there is very little one can do to determine if it will happen to him or her. If you can build a fireproof home, then you don't need insurance. But for people who have stick built homes, it makes some sense to pool your risk, as long as the price is right (siginificantly less than rebuilding a burnt home).
Would it not be better to spend the money preventing your house from burning down? I don't have as much problem with insurance that insures against acts of god type of things but much of insurance masks preventable losses. Risk is an important component to determine our actions and insurance of preventables alters those actions and can actually contribute to increased losses.
Fireproof homes? Check out this Aussie Company. http://www.modak.com.au/
Modular construction, fire, cyclone and termite proof. Five star thermal performance too, with a wide range of designs to choose from.
Seeing as the bushfire problem is becoming more pronounced, maybe this will be the future standard for homes in high-risk locations?
Don't know what seminar room you are from, but limited coverage catastrophic plans are the Best plans for most people, and that is what your employers wrote Ocare in order to ban.
The best plans for the young and healthy, with no assets to protect or pre-existing conditions. The old and the sick, however....
Who gets to define a plan as junk? You?
I was quite happy with my plan. I am individually insured with a high-deductible low-premium plan. I selected it because I like the idea of a high-deductible "distaster" medical plan with low costs so I can put money away in a Health Savings Account.
It was not a junk plan. It fit my life perfectly. Now, it is discontinued. It has been replaced by one of these new "upgraded" higher quality plans. Which has features I don't want or need. And costs twice as much in premiums. Still the same high deductible.
Perhaps there are junk plans out there, but mine was not one of them. I would not have been "bankrupted" even with a disastrous medical need because once the $12k deductible was paid, my out of pocket expenses would be zero and the plan would pay several million.
Oh but I am so thankful that government knows more about this than I do. I'm just a stupid citizen too dumb to know my plan was inferior. So glad I couldn't "keep" my lousy plan. Thank you nanny state. I am honored to pay more for my medical insurance. Even though you said I wouldn't.
You nailed it. +1
When the government starts telling you what to buy, and how much to pay and then threatens you with punishment/fines/fees IF you don't comply.
You no longer have a democracy.
You have a dictatorship.
You can beat around the bush all you want, you can say "o its not that big a deal" but at the end of the day..........its a fucking dictatorship stop kidding yourself.
Its only a matter of time before you have door to door wealth confiscation and military police patrolling curfew hours.
Soon
They will dictate
Your HealthCare
The car you drive
The food you eat
The medicine you take
The doctors you see
The amount of electricity you are allowed to use , the price you will pay for that usage.
The amount of fuel in your tank
The amount of calories in your soda, the oz of your soda.
The means and ways you have to defend yourself.
The amount of bullets in a gun (if they let you own one!)
The amount of Co2 you can create (counting the co2 you breath out)
The amount of square feet in your house
The amount water your toilet can flush
The amount of money you can withdraw a month/year
They are already starting to control most of these things.
Its only going to get worst.
America is racing with all its energy straight toward economic, political, and social catastrophe.
I swear, whats next? its like we are living inside an Ayn Rand novel.
Government slowly taking over every industry.
Government telling people what to buy, how much to pay and threatening them if they don't buy and pay what they say.
Government telling people what they are allowed to eat, and how much!
Government telling people what they can and can't say, where and when they can take photos.
Government spinning propaganda, playing people off against eachother.
Government protecting and "exempting" certain corporations from burdenus laws that the "rest of us have to follow"
Government determining trying to make everything "fair" yet the mega rich , and government employees and leaders are always "exempt" from these "fairness laws".
Government funneling money to friends and political contributors at the expense of the entire nations well being (obama care website).
All we are missing is John Galt and 200$ gasoline.
The entire government has become one giant machine , pay into it with bribes and political contributions, and in good time the government will reward you by protecting and exempting your corporation and your wealth from crazy laws DESIGNED to destroy your competition.
The corporate elite have become so decitant and soo incapable of running their corporations, that the only way they can stay afloat and compete is if government comes in and makes it illegal to compete with them , so that they can charge whatever they want! Commit as much FRAUD as they want , completely FREE of the worry of any reprecusions.
Lets be honest.
Obama TOOK BRIBES (AKA political contributions) from that Piece of Shit Canadian company, So Obama designed an over-weight bloated health-care system DESIGNED TO FAIL and then spent hundreds of millions of dollars on this garbage system , with the intention of PAYING BACK HIS HANDLERS.
Pay to get someone you know president.
That President then doubles or tripples or even 100x's your investment in him by creating some bogus government spending scheme to funnel money to you.
Our government is no longer ours.
It belongs to the corporate oligarchy of inernational (mostly foreign) banking elites.
At last, at last, all equal at last.
Yes knuckles, everyone is special which really,ultimately means no one is.
However, some will always be more equal than others. The pigs are walking upright on their trotters.
Miffed;-)
Dre4dwolf
Great comments
I am not the first or last to state this, but:
'when freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will be free'
Are we we all outlaws now? I am, and not ashamed.
This is all going to end, like every other Socialist Dictatorship, in Blood. Lots of it.
Bath House will enjoy every minute of it, just as Hitler cackled at the conspirators strangling as they hung by piano wire after Valkyrie failed to kill him.
This creature Will open the Black Hole of Death.
Bank on it.
"I'm good at killing people" -- Barack Hussein Obama
> "I'm good at killing people" -- Barack Hussein Obama
Nobel Peace Prize winner . . . . . .
Did you see on Drudge where democrats have proposed that doctors be forced to accept medicare and medicaid plans in virginia?
Would that fly if all plumbers were required to accept state mandated payments and could not refuse the work nor negotiate the rate of pay?
Tyranny comes in the guise of socialism. Socialists dont trust freedom.
Exactly, on one end, government is not only telling you what you CAN BUY, but they are telling you what you MUST BUY.
Then on the other hand.
Government is telling businesses what they CAN SELL, HOW MUCH THEY CAN CHARGE OR EVEN HOW MUCH THEY MUST! CHARGE and then telling them also that they MUST PROVIDE XXXX SERVICE OR XXXX GOOD to XXXXX CONSUMBER WHO MUST BUY IT.
IDK about you.
But if I was selling apples.
and the government said that starting monday, by law, EVERYONE MUST BUY ATLEAST ONE APPLE.
I would charge 1000xtimes the price for that apple (since now I know that by law people have to buy them, no matter what the price).
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DID WITH HEALTHCARE, and now you don't even have competing companies trying to provide health-care, the only companies on the list are the ones that Government chose to protect....(govt picks winners and lossers), the proof is in the pudding, most peoples premiums went up 250~ 1000+%!!!!!!!!!
WAKE UP AMERICA.
Same with the banking sector, the bailouts ushered in an era where.... government specified banks are protected against failure no matter how large a risk they take.
When you protect XYZ company from losses, you essentially JUST PUT ALL THEIR COMPETITION OUT OF BUSINESS.
A NEW BETTER BANKING COMPANY WILL NEVER COME INTO EXISTANCE SOO LONG AS THE HORRIBLE ONES ARE PROTECTED FROM FAILURE.
Any law that is repugnant to the Constitution is null and void.
In other words, the current clown regime has exactly the amount of power over you as you let them have.
One man can do nothing against a sea of monsters, the only option left for him to choose ... is not to swim and allow the monsters to consume eachother.
-Me.
Marbury v Madison 17 Wall 205 Cranch 2 1803. Further in that decision--"and the courts as well as other departments are BOUND by that instrument"
See my post of 6-10 as my first submission or later "The Confluence of Power and the failure of "Democracy." written some year and a half later. Milestones
You are forced to buy a plan. I may be forced to work without the ability to negotiate rates or refuse to work.
There was no opt out in that demorat's plan. You couldnt even refuse all insurance and accept cash. You were ordered to work at state mandated wages on every state project they sent you.
14th amendment means nothing to a socialist.
This is going to get interesting as soon as I am hit up for this FOOLS document. I am a retired VET who was drafted and was promised among other things my medical care will be taken care of. Well I lived up to my part of the contract (ie: my 2 years active duty and years in the reserve as part of that contract.
My understanding that is ancient history and I will have to get insurance thru O'blabla and the huge help from our little munchkins in Congress.
We shall see what happens because I will buy that crap when we see hugh formations of flying pigs in the sky.
Wonder how other vets feel. Milestones
We have lots of situations where peter promises joe a benefit in the future, and he and joe both agree that baby paul who cant even vote yet will pay for it.
Our founding fathers mostly felt that intergenerational debt was another form of indentured servitude. The worst kind, because in real indentured servitude you volunteered and got a benefit out of it, a boat ticket or learning of a skilled trade.
I was DRAFTED if you read my first sentence. There was nothing voluntary unless the threat of incaration doesn't impress you.
Still trying to tie para.1 with #2. Milestones
Making baby paul pay for an agreement that joe and peter worked out is intergenerational debt. Baby paul was put in bondage without even a choice.
Look deeper. Its not just about enriching their cronies. Its about using their corrupt relationships with these insurance companies to capture Americans in dependency. Further these same insurance companies will be blamed for cancellations as well as increased premiums, just like they were doing durring the runup to the vote for Obamacare. This arrangement makes sure WE are dependent but also the insurance companies, as they are now Obama's bitches. Notice how they were ordered silenced when they tried to defend themselves. Just as we saw with the bankers....demonize them while at the same time handing them tons of cash. Toe the line is the name of the game...for all of us. Just as you mentioned earlier in this thread, a Randian nightmare where businesses are induced to collude to defeat their competition as well as guarantee their positions. The heads of these insurance companies care not if their companies are in bsiness a year form now and already have their stash. These companies will be absorbed by nationalization to create single payer and most of the upper level management will either find themselves in nice comfortable unionized government benefit jobs or a nice severance package. We will be left with the shit sandwich.
You can always dig deaper into the shit.
But in the end, its still shit ;)
Good points though.
"Liberty without Socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without Liberty is slavery and brutality."- Bakunin
There IS a middle ground. A balance between individual freedom and social responsibility. The well-being of individuals is dependent on the well-being of the collective society, and the well being of the collective society is dependent on the well-being of individuals.
Unfortunately, right now because of the concentration of wealth and power (the merging of wealth and State), we are accelerating towards totalitarianism, with the uber-rich on one end and the welfare state on the other.
I believe a society reflects its values. The middle ground is freedom protected by law and social responsibility enacted by citizens voluntarily because it reflects the world they want to live in. The only places where socialism works are in small scale environmentls with a high degree of uniformity of belief and shared values, primarily small homogenus countries but most prevalently within family units. It must be voluntary and of free will, a concept we think of AS freedom.
Drs don't accept Medicare/ Medicaid for the simple reason it reimburses pennies on the dollar. A Dr can only accept a small percentage of these patients or his practice will go bankrupt. It is simple math. It's shear lunacy to force a Dr to accept it. Only a politician could think of such an idea. This will result in more Drs fleeing the field. I'm sure the response to that will be to force them to work. Yeah, that surely will solve it. Whenever I am sure this damn country can't get any more idiotic, it drops to yet again a new low.
Miffed;-)
There's no bottom of the barrel anymore, Miffed.
You think it will stop at doctors?
Every person in this country will be forced to work.
I cringe at the number of people who will be murdered before this Regime gets its way.
It's coming, unless we stop it.
Its very likely we will have a new "state" definition of work soon. We already have new definitions for unemployment so its coming. As far as the number murdered, the answer comes with a broader view, the kind agenda 21 forsees. A reduced population is a significant part of the plan. This is a multi front agenda and Obamacare is but one more of its signature fronts. Its bad, its all bad but no one thing is it, it is all of it simultaneously. If we are serious about stopping it we have to stop NOW. Its already too late to prevent the terrible damage that is currently being covered up, but there is no political proccess that will bring it to a halt. Even this Obamacare debacle is giving some hope that Obama can be stopped in the next election cycle but we know, even if republicans got the senate, they will likely just sit on their hands and play along with what they see as inevitable. Just another few years down the path to hell.
FOWARD!
freedom isn't free
Everything that can not be outsourced....will be insourced (bail-in). We bail-in the banks (or QE) because no other country will do it. We bail-in social programs because we are in-place and can't be outsourced, and the social programs can't be outsourced.
Everything.
we haven't had democracy for generations, instead we nourished the illusion of it. government action is just the symptom of the problem. only due to the symptoms we have started to notice the problem (which for a period was masked with democracy), while it has existed as long as man has walked the earth. problem itself is (neo-) feudalism, or more precisely, slavery.
We've NEVER had democracy for fucks sake. Why do people keep thinking we are a domocracy? We are a constitutional republic, or were at least until the constitution started getting ignored by Lincoln without consequences. It a democratic form of government but it ISN"T FUCKING MOB RULE. Or at least is wasn't supposed to be. But, now that the constitution has been shredded incrementally for 150 years it can easily turn in to democracy, which is mob rule without constiutional limits. Be careful what you wish for.
i'm completely aware of it but i was refering to Dre4dwolf initial post, these are his words. "You no longer have a democracy. You have a dictatorship."
but my whole point was it's not government that is fucking you over (i'm not american, but i sympathize as i see where you and the world is heading towards), so stop wasting your time and energy. if not even obamacare is enough to open your eyes to see that your government is just a smokescreen, then you are doomed beyond repair.
i'm afraid to agree with radical marihuana here as i see no way out of it in the current paradigm. you're against the biggest and most sophisticated machine the earth has ever carried, which is a successor of thousands of years of oppression, and it will come crumbling down on your heads if you succeed overcoming it. and nothing short of revolution will change the course usa is on. no voting for candidate x(think jfk), impeachment of obama or any other clown, or even a coup can bring about any real liberty of any sort. problem is not even systematic, it's civilizational. though i wish you all the best!
You are correct.
The problem is on a civilization level at this point.
It has infected education for multiple generations.
The disease is soo wide-spread that treating it might actually kill the patient at this point......
The only real way to solve this is to change the minds of men first and hope for a "trickle up" effect in government to slowly bring about change (say over 2 generations).
But I don't think this system will survive long enough to bring about a slow steady healing , It will consume itself to death , the only thing we as true Americans can do is sit back and watch the plague run its course.
Society only learns through pain, we must first burn ourselves to understand fire.
problem with trickle up is that liberty is not an entropic state in power systems. in other words, one has to put more energy into the system than the system has consolidated. and the system is a beast. maybe it's not the best metaphor but not a single advancement in freedoms, rights etc came from below. only way to implement anything, is to fight to the top and trickle down. so one has to become the beast to kill the beast...
only solace is that usa is burning very bright and it's waking up more people in the world than ever during the human history, as the assumably most democratic(i'm sorry for the incorrect term, but it's the image you have painted of yourself) republic is turning into a totalitarian state in real time. most of the old world still lives in the dreamland as the history of state rule is more inherent here but some of us are starting to smell the bullshit and are going down the rabbit hole only thanks to your sacrifice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQtxcKT-u_Y
ObamaCare:
What You're Not Being Told
Eh bien, layman_please,
... "agree with radical marihuana" ... ???
There is an ouroboros of incorporated robbery: a growing feedback loop of organizations which have been mandated and powered by governments owning the vast majority of the corporations that those governments originally chartered, and were supposed to be regulating. The current trends are for an incestuous system of professional money managers going through revolving doors between corporations and governments, controlling the governments, that own the corporations, that control those governments ... http://www.cafr1.com/ ... the biggest insurance companies surely follow the pattern to be found in over a hundred thousand American CAFRs, that the majority of the shares of publicly traded health insurance companies are collectively owned by entities which got their power to buy them from government. It is like a fire breathing dragon, twirling around faster and faster, chasing its own tail, which is much more awesome to behold than when a cute dog does that!
my point is, government and corporations are low level players(0.1-1%) in the hierarchy as they are in the public spotlight. the problem is above them and we know that as the system gets its strength from the blood circulation which is money. and i'm not talking about dimon et al, but international bankers behind the privately owned central banks.
i'm just concerned the discussion on obamacare on site like zerohegde defeats the purpose as everybody here knows what it is, except of course those few government trolls, who can't be woken up, which is not the case with the rest of the people not on zerohedge.
i guess i'm dreaming of going after the dragon tamer.
Yeah, I think you are dreaming, layman_please, about going after the dragon tamer!
Here is another 35 minute video, from Stefan Molyneux:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9r93OxpE8g
The Truth About ObamacareThe damn law is incredibly complicated, to the point where it surely seems to be unconstitutional. However, what I find curious is the way that it seems to be so totally screwed up that millions of people are going to end up "disobeying" it, not because they want to, in principle, but merely because everything is so screwy, that many people will be defaulting to not obeying the law, because they will not know, and not be able to know, what the hell they are supposed to do.
Of course, as you may have suggested, layman_please, it appears plausible that the highest level players (such as the international bankers behind the privately owned central banks) are deliberately planning on and working towards destroying the American democratic republic, and having Obamacare become such a total screw-up that it ends up screwing the "rule of law" itself may well be what is intended. After all, I understand that the SIZE of the health care budget in the USA would make it total up to being the 6th largest economy in the world, if that USA Health Care was country in itself. Clearly, the SIZE of something that is going to become roughly 20% of the whole economy of the USA is a BIG DEAL. Therefore, screwing that up as badly as Obamacare appears it is going to do is SIGNIFICANT!
Anyway, it is all very weird, to have a law that is so nuts that it will force many people to disobey it, for a range of both principled and practical reasons. In several of my previous comments I have offered the opinion that this is being so totally screwed up, on such a scale, that merely normal greed and incompetence do not seem enough to explain that ???
valid points, Radical Marijuana, i have to agree with you. i'm not in a position to say you should just ignore the whole obamacare, that was never my intention.
We went from a constitutional republic to a democracy to a dictatorship ! ...Constitutional republic? pfffft what did that last? like a whole 20 years? I would argue that government got overthrown sometime in the late 1790s as soon as the "federalists" started taking office.
The only way you can have a constitutional republic is if you have a true independent as president (no republicans or democrats) because once you choose a side you are choosing either a democracy(oligarchy) or a republic (dictatorship).
Republicans are Pro-Dictatorship, Pro protecting fraud and abuse with strong property rights for the mega rich oligarchy)
Democrats are Pro-Oligarchy , high taxation, medium wealth distribution and bloated government
Independents are PRO-LAW, SAME LAWS FOR EVERYONE NO EXCEPTION, SMALL GOVERNMENT, NON-INTRUSIVE GOVERNMENT and A FOREIGN POLICY WHERE WE KEEP TO OURSELVES (non-interventionists).
If you don't have an independent as president, (a real one) you are voting between a dictatorship or an oligarchy PERIOD voting for republicans OR democrats is like tossing a coin "HEADS I WIN, TAILS YOU LOSE" scenario.
If you think what we have today is mob-rule, hahaha yea maybe if a few thousand people at best counts as a mob.
We have an Oligarchy paying off a dictator, thats what it comes down to.
Obama hasn't gone farther than he has only because hes trying to incrementally take more power, (frog in boiling water).
Eventually he will garnish the power to completely dissolve congress and the senate and the judicial branch and whatever other trivial remnants of government opposition remains.
Even if we manage to get into another election , the seat of the presidency will have accumulated soo much power that the other branches of government won't even matter, some rich oligarch will come in and buy up whoever takes the seat and walla more of the same.
Obama has completely nullified the purpose of elections, because he has guaranteed that the seat of the presidency will be perpetually up for sale for as long as it remains operational.
Welcome to your democratic oligarchy of the few against the many.
Welcome to perdition, this elevator only goes in one direction DOWN.
You used to have more than two parties.
You had Whig party (angry white people who want to fix everything with common sense reform to education bla bla bla)
You had "democratic - republicans" (confused idependants)
You had "independants"
You had "republicans" yuky scumbags
You had "democrats" yuky scumbags who pretend to care about people
Once the Independants and Whigs ceased to exist , you were put on a steady path to a socialist oligarchy of corporations.
I think this Country needs another independant/Whig type party to RUN AND WIN, otherwise we will be stuck with this republican/democrat oligarchy garbage forever.
Hammer, Sickle, Questionaire
We don't want Obamacare!
as the saying goes, obama is at the fourth term of bush presidency or even clinton's sixth term. there's no change in policy. instead of two parties you have just one candidate you cannot even get rid of.
He weaseled into dictatorship just like Hitler.
America will have to decide to live under a true, murderous socialist dictatoship or rid themselves of it.
There is no middle ground.
How many children we can have. Oh wait, that's China. Still more freedoms than in USSA.
"I am the State," decreed Obama.
You have to pass obamacare to find out what is in it. Oops... we did, and AFA reads like an episode of the tv series "hoarders' every truck load of junk, and wasted crap, just opens up another layer of junk and cat vomit. Really Obamas brain belongs on 'Hoarders'.
The 1/2 negroe has a brain?
The *only* reason the insurance companies got on board Obamacare is the inclusion of the mandates (employer and individual), since *forcing* participation by the young and healthy is the only way to spread the risk pool. I suspect it's some combination of coercion by the federal government, and profit motive from the insurance companies.
I'm not a huge fan of insurance companies, but the last data I saw indicated that the avergage profit margin of health insurance companies over the past few years has hovered between 2% and 5%, which, if accurate, isn't necessarily obscene.
At question is whether the insurance companies foresee the upcoming chess move by the Obama administration: "The reason Obamacare is so complicated and expensive is those greedy insurance companies. We need to get them out of the picture and move to single payer".
I dnt know about insurance companies but hospital margins are laughably low. Most hospitals would be delighted with 5 percent margins. Almost every small town hospital is on government life support with "disproportionate share payments" already because they exceed a certain percentage of medicare and medicaid patients.
"The reason Obamacare is so complicated and expensive is those greedy insurance companies. We need to get them out of the picture and move to single payer".
...
it's exactly what's coming. This administration is fucking crazy. Take as an example the global warming executive order just signed by Obama. Pure theatrics to grow government dependancy.
I disagree. The people (progressives) who advocated a public option or single payer system, hate Obamacare.
They see it as it trully is: a way to enslave people to the corrupt kleptocracy.
Check out the Obamacare Clusterfuck website: www.correntewire.com/obamacare_clusterfuck
From Politics for Retards: progressives are to democrats as libitarians are to republicans.
Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
ACA is just another ponzi scheme to collect on derivative debts. Once everyone pulls out of the market, the party bag will end up on the lap of the true owner.
ObongoCare will never make it past year one... either the low penalties for not signing up or an inevitable delay... mean VERY few paying members... coupled with the masses of parasites, sick, lame, poor, illegals and muslims... who pay nothing, will overwhelm it with massive unfunded costs... and the swine will never be able to catch up through screwing the working healthy. Look for a great 2014 for the GOP... Chakka Nero Obongo is melting down... and Hillaroid has herpes.
I do not disagree with your statement. But do you think 'Obongo' and 'Hillaroid' help make your point better? And I don't know if a great 2014 for the GOP will help anything as they serve the same masters as the Dems.
Fuck them burn it all down Senator McCain.
You underestimate Congress's ability to screw over the average American.
Obama lied and your healthcare died.
and, lets nor forget, Obama/Clinton lied, soldiers in Benghazi died. Obama/Holder lied, border agents and Mexicans died. This guy is a disaster.
I have to laugh at all the former liberals now wringing their hands at the Marxist, Commie Puke. The fuck was a Community Agitator and they thought this would lead to anything besides this Fascist State we have now? And mark my words we ain't seen nothing yet.
This isn't OBAMA care.
This plan wass written by the insurance giants, for the insurance giants.
And every Congresswhore is squarely behind it because it will line their pockets.
Simple as pie.
Insurance companies will be wiped out under single payer. They have to either be the dumbest group on the planet or were coerced into this scheme by Obama. I think the latter.
Since single payer is the ultimate goal of the administration. Do the insurance co.'s have any choice, right now their plan is to take the money and run before we have european style national healthcare. It is what comes next and after this debacle people will embrace it with open arms.
EXACTLY. They don't care about health insurance, or their employess, or the patients, hospitals, or the public. All they care about is money and power and how much they can make off with before the window closes.
I have always said that health care, even before ACA, was on its death bed. All Obamacrae will do is accelerate it abour 5 years. Makes it easier for these big wigs to plan their exit from the so called private health care industry into the government one size screws all (except the politicians and CEOs and select wealthy Bankers of course) where they can grow fatter still on more government contracts. Military industrial complex anyone?
Same with big business pushing the Republicans to pass amnesty for illegal aliens. The long term effect will be more Democrats in power, who, by nature, are hostile to business.
As the man said - "A capitalist is someone who will sell you the rope that you are going to hang him".
You are wrong...having worked in a top 3 health insurer during the clinton effort...the insurance companies are only making their play to be involved when the inevitable onslaught comes. The government is not going to create systems for eligibility and claims payment and status etc, they already exist. All the data already for everyone that is 'in the system' exists on a handful of insurance companies computer systems. They can all talk to each other using electronic data interchange (ANSI industry standards for communication of health care related data - ANSI subgroup x).
Insurance companies see what's coming, tyrannical-style force from a government that is wholly corrupt. As a business you can choose to either fight the system and go under or you can choose to go along and have some kind of income. They're not stupid, they're just fighting to survive against corrupt politicians and an almost stupid population.
Should they be standing on the principals of free market with no governmental interference? Yes. Should they be failing and going under as a matter of principle? Probably. But ultimately, any business entity is going to do whatever it can to stay in business. Facing a stupid electorate and a corrupt system, you at least try to fix the game in your favor.
Not saying it's justification, just saying what's going on. These people are not dumb, anything but.
Let me be the asshole that reminds all that only one thing matters regarding Obamacare (insurance): It is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and enforcement of it is treason. All else is inconsequential.
I do find the discussion of their latest method of theft from us, the American people, funny.
You now can be taxed for not buying a government approved product. Think about that for a second. Where this all goes from here is anyone's guess.
Tax for not buying a car to support the auto industry. Tax for not buying corn based products to support the subsidized corn industry. Tax for not learning to swim (everyone should be forced to learn to swim.) Tax for not eating twinkies (we cant afford to lose a quality product like that) How about a tax for being unemployed for over 2 years...shit that would make people take a job they don't want. We can't have that. What about a tax for....wait a minute those don't sound like taxes they sound like penalties....odd.
It's just so un-funny how the daily demise of america is just fodder for cartoons now.
"The ObamaCare website is the natural spawn of that technocracy who love the idea of using modernity to make things faster and easier, but have no idea what anything costs or how it works."
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2013/10/government-is-magic.html
sic semper tyrannis
I actually started to laugh uncontrollably toward the end of the clip...
Obama: "If you like your Constitution, you can keep your Constitution. If you like your guns, you can keep your guns. If you like your gold, you can keep your gold. If you want your privacy, you can keep your privacy."
"If you like George Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney, you can keep George Bush Jr. and Dick Cheney."
And we did.
It is not a funny cartoon because people will die because of ObamaCare. The situation is a bit too serious. But had it shown actual photos of kids with cancer that aren't able to continue treatment because of ObamaCare then it would have been perhaps protest art.
Its not the kids with cancer that are going to die. It's going to be 50+ year old mostly middle class white folks.
http://youtu.be/1gQtp2Pg_1I
More blah blah blah.
Americans can't handle the truth...
Marxist assholes.
If you like your president, you can keep him ...
I heard that one from the majority of the people who did not vote.
What goes around, comes around.
The election was a rigged game, just like the markets. There were no choices to vote for.
July 2009, with Corzine smiling in the backgound. Classic!
I had to log in just to say....What a scum bag, piece of shit, mother fucking liar! Yes you Obama are a mother fucking liar! Of course, we already knew that. Oh and why is Corzine still walking around free? Oh yeah cause you're a scum bag piece of shit!
As Fukushima Spent Fuel Pool 4 work goes on, this is a perfect time to review your own preparations?
You are prepared to Shelter in Place, right?
I made a nice list of preps, for radiation shelter in place, but good for all kinds of emergencies too. Check it out here.
http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/p/radiation-preparation-resources.html
Don't know who said it but it's worth repeating.
"When injustice becomes law resistance becomes duty"
edit to add: Jefferson
Obamacare is likely to be a success as much as the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were.
As a result of those two wars at a cost of trillions of dollars is one million wounded veterans and the introduction of the NDM-1 bacteria which is resistant to ALL antibiotics.... What a deal, I hadn't realized you could get so much for trillions of $'s....
There were not milliOns wounded. There are a bunch of vets applying under PTSD. How convenient to have a disability where we have to take your word for it.
46 percent of returning vets are applying for disability. You really believe that we have more "disabled" from these softer modern wars than we did from the hell of korea and WW2?
The gibs me dat culture has infected even the recruits. Free shit for all!
Police Arrest, Abusively, People Attempting
http://www.treebiotech2013.org/1/post/2013/05/breaking-activists-brutall...
(Asheville, NC) To Prevent The Privatization Of Forests,
Firstly, And Their Post- Privatization Expected Manner Of Forestry, Including
Its Unproved Effect On The
Biologic Health Of Our Communities And Nation.
Privatization Should Only
Exist At The Sufferance Of Public Regulation.
Where The Public Exists At
The Sufferance Of The Privatizer, That's Feudal.
Privatization Of Food:
http://www.multiurl.com/la/Also_Some_Kids_Sent_Into_Inescapable_Debt_For...
Privatization Of Health Care, Pre-Texted,
Even With Simpson Bowles-Type Cost
Braking, Pre-Texted:
http://blogs.investors.com/capitalhill/index.php/home/35-politicsinvesti...
Defines a profit box:
http://pages.citebite.com/i1y4m1t7o7pxu
http://financialpress.com/2011/12/09/obamacares-mlr-bomb-will-create-pri...
http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2013/07/12/union-letter-obam...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health-co-ops-created-to-foster-c...
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2012/may/cant-hold-tongues-on-obamas-health-law
In Health, Epidemiology
And Management (Or
(Market) Control Of
Risk (~Chance Plus
Having A Clue As To Chance)
Make It Different From
The Bakery Story. Your
Local TB Bacterium Doesn't
Shop Prices.
BUT: The Comparison With
The Bakery Store's Still
Important. It Still Matters
That That's Appropriately
Commerce Mainly Between
The Owner-Baker And
The Person Wanting A Scone.
In Application: LICH Stays
Open For The Reasons The
Doctors And Nurses Say Why.
Whatever Patient Gowns
Don't Have Closures Should.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIPv-pjABbk&t=1m10s
The Patient's The Customer,
The Scone Buyer.
We Now Know It Spikes The Dopamine
(~The Placebo Effect.)
http://pages.citebite.com/o7t2q1u7ibuw
Everyone But The DOA Will Be A Patient.
From WSJ:
Everyone now is clamoring about Affordable Care Act winners and losers. I am one of the losers.
My grievance is not political; all my energies are directed to enjoying life and staying alive, and I have no time for politics. For almost seven years I have fought and survived stage-4 gallbladder cancer, with a five-year survival rate of less than 2% after diagnosis. I am a determined fighter and extremely lucky. But this luck may have just run out: My affordable, lifesaving medical insurance policy has been canceled effective Dec. 31.
My choice is to get coverage through the government health exchange and lose access to my cancer doctors, or pay much more for insurance outside the exchange (the quotes average 40% to 50% more) for the privilege of starting over with an unfamiliar insurance company and impaired benefits.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230452750457917171042...
Why is it that the peoPle who are passionate and active supporters of "social solidarity" and "it is morally imperative that everyone contribute to the common good" are, after all contributions are netted out, the net beneficiaries?
Taker philosophy reeks of hypocrisy
IMPEACH! Yes We Can.
If you like your constitutional republic, you can keep it. Oh, unless I decide a totalitarian, repressive, kleptocratic, enslaving, dictatorial regime would be better. Yeah, that's it. Because you didn't make that nation. Now where's my next Nobel Prize?
re: 'ObamaCare'
quote from: Chicago Thuggery: The Jewish Mob & Obama
Obama care mentioned here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9vOxTJJDAA
there is nothing factually incorrect about what he says.
if you like your insurance policy, you will keep it. duh!
Background:
A number of studies have evaluated the effect of a right to health as a mechanism for achieving desirable health outcomes, yet no study has sought institutional conditions that make this mechanism more effective at population level.I hypothesise whether a right to health is only an effective instrument for improving health in countries that demonstrate good governance in which effective mechanisms for enforcing the right to health, as well as controlling government behaviour, exist.
Method:
Annual data from 1970 to 2007 was obtained for a panel of 157 countries, to study the effects of introducing into national constitutions an explicit, enforceable, right to health and democratic governance on infant and under-five mortality rates.
Results:
The introduction of a right to health in a national constitution was significantly associated with reductions in both mean infant and under-five mortality rates. The effect was large in countries with high scores for democratic governance, whereas in countries with low scores for democratic governance, approximately half of the effect of introducing a constitutional right to health was present.
Interpretation:
The results suggest that introducing a constitutional right to health is likely to be an effective mechanism for improving health in countries that have a high level of democratic governance. However, whereas a right to health is likely to be less effective in countries with low scores for democratic governance in the short run, there can be a longer term health benefits if governance subsequently improves, the right to health remains in the constitution.
[source]
Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics
to the junkers and opponents of universal health care,
here is your theme song.
As long as any system attempting this guarantees a person only enters voluntarily, guarantees a person who doesn't have the income to support this is not forced into it, I think we're OK.
As soon as you demand income out of people who say they can't afford to pay, you're stealing. So what is it you intend?
I think you should have a right to make your own medicine, use it, sell it & take any preventative care methods you need.
I think I have a right to stop you from taking any work hours, energy, property or skills of my for your own benefit of any sort (only one choice of which is in the healthcare category) using any force I deem fit.
Clear?
Seems we have a few Healthcare Hiccups here.
RE
The politicians around the world are nothing more than auction items which can be sold to the highest bidder. They will do whatever they can for the lobbyist paying them the maximum amount of money or votes, be it the unions, the banksters, the richest corporations or individuals. They are in the power seat to extract maximum advantage for themselves in the small time frame they occupy the seat of power.
The rest of the population is least of their concerns. The only activity they do is pacify the majority of the population using false statistics and promises of a better future so that they do not lynch them and their masters while they are robbing the taxpayers.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article40231.html
Hard to believe a politican would lie.
I started working in the late 1980's and that time the insurance companies worked hard to control costs. Many people saw this as evil, bu they were actually trying to keep all of our costs low. Occasionally there was the story of a child where experimental treatment was being denied. I guess you could say that somehow our interests were aligned, premium payers and the insurance companies. I admit that I have had my head down with my nose to the grind stone raising a family and have not been paying much attention to things in the intervening 25 years until just recently. Now it seems that insurance companies will pay for just about anything. They just tack on their percentage with a smile. The doctors and hospitals play unethical games to jack up their reimbursement rates from the government and insurance companies. I guess we are being played. We pay higher taxes and insurance premiums and we are going further into debt through our government.
So my question is "what has changed in the last 25 years?" I am assuming that healthcare organizations, pharma and insurance companies lobbied heavily and have had laws and regulations changed. I am sure that large hospitals and insurance companies have bought up the smaller companies and that there is less competition now.
I would appreciate it the readers hear could spell it out in detail.
Regards,
Fred