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Healthcare In America: Countless Layers Of Grift And Counter-Grift

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by James H. Kunstler of Kunstler.com,

The ObamaCare website rollout fiasco, joined by the bait-and-switch “You can keep your current insurance (not)” tempest, obscure the fundamental quandary about so-called health-care in America: that it is a gigantic racket structured to allow countless layers of grift and counter-grift. The end product of all that artifice is that medical care costs twice as much in America as any other civilized country, and that it has to be operated by a cruel and despotic matrix of poorly coordinated bureaucracies that commonly leave people more disabled financially than the diseases that brought them into the system.

ObamaCare was designed to work like a giant roll of duct tape that would allow the current cast of characters in charge (Democratic Progressives) to pretend that the system could keep going a few years longer. But it looks like it has already blown out the patch on the manifold and is getting ready to throw a rod — which duct tape will not avail to fix.

I had three major surgeries (hip, open heart, spine) the past year and paid attention to the statements that rolled in from my then-insurer, Blue Shield (the policy was cancelled in October). These documents were always advertised as “this is not a bill” and that was technically true, but it deflected attention from what it really was, a record of negotiated scams between the “providers” (doctors and hospitals) and the insurance company.

 

There was never any discussion (or offer of discussion) of the cost of care before a procedure. When asked, doctors commonly pretend not to know what their work costs. Why is that? It’s not to spare the patient’s feelings. It’s because sick people are hostages and both the doctors and the hospital management know they will agree to anything that will get them through the crisis of illness. This sets up a situation that allows the “providers” to blindside the patient with charges after the fact.

 

My hip “revision” operation was necessary because my original implant was a defective (“innovative” circa 2003) metal-on-metal joint that released metal fragments into my system and it had to be removed. The stated charge for replacement part — a simple two piece bearing made of metal and plastic, about the size of tangerine — was $14,000. Blue Shield “negotiated” the price down to about $7,000. If you go to the websites of any of the manufacturers of these things, you will not see any suggested retail or wholesale price. The markup on these things must be out of this world. Cars come with four ball joints that carry roughly the same time warrantee, and they come with a staggering array of “extras”— engines, transmissions, air-conditioning, seats, air-bags, and radios. The pattern was similar for the other surgeries and what they entailed. I ended up paying five-figures out-of-pocket. Lucky for me that I saved some money before this all happened. I don’t have kids so I haven’t been paying extortionate college tuitions during my peak income years.

 

All the surgeries I had required hospital stays. For the hip op, I was in for a day and a half in a non-special bed (no fancy hookups). The charge was $23,000 per day. For what? They took my blood pressure nine times. I got about six bad meals. The line charge on the Blue Shield statement said “room and board.” It would be a joke if this extortion wasn’t multiplied millions of times a day across the nation. Citizen-hostages obviously don’t know where to begin to unravel this skein of dreadful rackets. If you think it’s possible to have a productive conversation with an insurance company rep at the other end of the phone line, then you’re going to be disappointed. You might as well be talking to a third-sub-deputy under-commissar in the Soviet motor vehicle bureau.

This ghastly matrix of corruption really only has two ways to go. It can completely implode in a fairly short time frame (say, five years, tops), or we can, by some miracle of political will, get our priorities straight and sweep away all the layers of racketeering with a single-payer system. The evidence in other civilized countries is not so encouraging. England’s National Health Service has degenerated into a two layer system of half-assed soviet-style medicine for the proles and concierge service for the rich. France’s system works more democratically, but the nation is going bankrupt and eventually their health care network will fall apart. The Scandinavian countries have relatively tiny populations. I don’t know, frankly, how the Germans are doing.

Here in the USA, you can make arguments for putting a greater share of public money into a single-payer system. For instance, if we redirected the money spent on our stupid military adventures and closed some of the countless redundant bases we run overseas. That would be a biggie. Given the current choke-hold of the military-industrial complex on our politicians, I wouldn’t expect much traction there.

You can argue that nobody complains about government spending on the highway system, so why should “the people” complain about organizing a medical system that really works? Obviously, there’s no consensus to make that happen. Too many doctors want to drive BMWs. Too many insurance executives and hospital administrators want to make multi-million dollar salaries. Too many lobbyist parasites and lawyers are feeding off that revenue stream. Too many politicians with gold-plated health insurance coverage don’t want to change the current distribution of goodies. End-of-story, as the late Tony Soprano used to say.

It’s the old quandary of fire or ice… which way do you want to go? Since I’m interested in reality-based outcomes, my bet would be on implosion. In any case, several of the other systems that currently support the activities of our society are scheduled for near-term implosion, too. That would be the banking-finance system, the energy supply system, and the industrial agriculture system. As those things wind down or crash, you can be sure that everything connected with them will be affected, so the chance that we could mount a real national health care system is, in my opinion, zero.

The ObamaCare duct-taped system will go down. The big hospitals, HMOs, insurers, pharma companies will all starve and shrivel. Like all things in the emergent new paradigm, they will reorganize on a small and much simpler basis. Everyone will make less money and high-tech medicine will probably dwindle for all but a very few… and for them, only for a while. Eventually, we’ll re-set to local clinic style medicine with far fewer resources, specialties, and miracle cures. There will be a whole lot less aggravation, though, and people may die more peacefully.

Finally, there’s the pathetic American lumpen-public of our day itself, steadily committing suicide en masse by corn byproducts, the three-hundred pounders lumbering down the Wal-Mart aisles in search of the latest designer nacho. What can you do about such a people, except let fate take them where it will?

 

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Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:33 | 4120518 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

1

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:34 | 4120522 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 

The best thing to have happened to America in the last 5 years is the failure of the Obamacare website. Nothing else has been so effective in bringing the debate about the Obamacare con game to the living rooms of Mr. & Mrs. Sheeple.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:41 | 4120531 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

I give thanks daily for the abomination that is healthcare.gov because of the rich irony and epic failure on all levels that only .gov can deliver without being fired, tared and feathered then run out of town. Great analysis on the No Agenda Show http://www.noagendashow.com/

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:43 | 4120539 negative rates
negative rates's picture

We're finding out what's in it alright. And it aint pretty.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:43 | 4120580 philipat
philipat's picture

There is more than enough blame to go around, including all of the above mentioned. But it must also be pointed out that, according to the NYT, physicians account for 17% of the "Top 1%" so physicians also contribute to the disparity in costs between The US and other OECD countries. Incidentally, despite the cost disparity (18% of GDP in the US versus an average of 8% in OECD others) the outcomes (Life expectancy, infant mortality etc.) are worse in the US.

IMHO, Obamacare could be THE Black Swan which will collapse the system. The young won't join becuase it is far less costly just to pay the fine and enroll if they get a serious illness. The majority enrolling are being directed into Medicaid. This means that health insurance costs will increase dramatically due to the menu of compulsory services now mandated and the fact that those with serious and pre-existing conditions will be at the front of the line to enroll. This increase in costs will further drive away the young but also many who simply will not be able to carry the cost. This in turn will push more and more people into Medicaid.

The impact this will have not only on consumption patterns throughout the economy will be substantial but, in particular, it means that Medicaid (And Medicare, which will also expand as a result of the above pressures) costs will spital out of control. At a time when Government spending is already out of control with no serious attempts by any party to reign in existing spending.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:08 | 4120713 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

You r discussing adverse selection. The insurance death spiral. It is not a possibility. It is an absolute certainty. This thing will collapse within three years or less.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:19 | 4120727 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

It will collapse long before 3 years!

Obama lied - healthcare died!

Democrats lied - healthcare died!

Spread the word!

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 23:37 | 4121434 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Yep, the "junk & run" Lib cockroaches are infesting the site!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 01:35 | 4121815 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

Ya, don't they know this is a Tea Party echo chamber.  No other viewpoints allowed here !!!  Tea Party only, got that ... everyone else &%$#@ off and die.

We are so sure of our opinions here that we can't tolerate any evidence that anyone might disagree.  Tyler, ban those libs, commies, socialists, marxists, and commies !!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:28 | 4123683 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Unfortunately these bleating man-children take over way too many comments threads, thumping their puffed-out chests about how they are always right.  No constructive dialogue.  I am finding I need to take more and more breaks from this site because of these morons, which is a shame b/c there is a wealth of interesting information posted here.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:42 | 4120741 philipat
philipat's picture

Yes, it is adverse selection which appears to work well in a Socialist utopia. And, yes I agree it will implode within 3 years at most. The only pending question is whether it will bring the whole socio-economic system down with it. And I think there is a very good chance it will.

Sadly, either way, this will probably result in a single-payer system.

IMHO, an HSA (Health Savings Account) system, operating in a similar way to 401K's, with restrictions/controls on the "Fee for service" model, Tort reform and removal of restrictions on Rx medicine re-importation would be far preferable.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 01:33 | 4121809 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

By "tort-reform"  Do you mean allowing americans their constitutional right to sue the living bejesus out of some incompetent mofo's who should have been paying attention to their patients rather than getting a choice tee time?  Or do you mean allowing them to negligently kill and maim without fear or suit?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 05:56 | 4122043 philipat
philipat's picture

No, not at all. The vast majority of "Malpractise" claims are frivolous and are "Settled" because the cost of going to court is prohibitive. This results in some physicians paying premiums of up to hundreds of thousands of dollars pa. So, what do you suppose that does to medical costs in general?

I have no issue with genuine cases of medical malpractise being aggressively pursued. I would propose simply a re-writing of the relevant law to provide for a greater burden of proof on the part of the plaintiff.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:37 | 4123720 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Tort "reform" is no such thing and is one of the most un-libertarian ideas sold to fools as necessary for the "market" to function.  You can NOT have a true marketplace without potential for full liability in case of negligence/incompetence/fraud/failure to fulfill contractual obligations.  That there are shark lawyers and moronic juries doesn't change that fact.  There has to be a balancing mechanism and believe it or not the right to sue is a better one than "regulation" as the regulators are easily bought off by those they are supposed to be regulating.  Aggrieved parties in genuine court of law not so much so.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 20:32 | 4124940 philipat
philipat's picture

Yes, I understand your view but respectfully disagree. To be consistent with your opinion, you also need to accept inflated healthcare costs because the lack of tort reform contributes to higher costs in two ways:

First, the annual premium for malpractise insurance can run into hunderds of thousands of dollars for some of the more invasive specialties.

Second, for all specialties, physicians are foreced to use the latest most expensive drugs and run every test known to mankind because of the risk of being accused of malpractise if they do not. This is enormously wasteful.

 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 01:34 | 4121810 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

The legal system no longer functions for the same reason the monetary one does.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:24 | 4120621 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Laugh all you want at the 300 pound mother fuckers waddling their bed-sore pocked ass in front of you at Walmart; fact is, fuckers, you are paying for its food, it's rent, and it's sickcare.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:11 | 4120722 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Those are my most profitable patients lol. Thry have to come in regularly and be very docile and cooperative in the clinics to keep their disability checks coming in.

I almost hate myself but not quite. I am getting out soon.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:17 | 4120740 starfcker
starfcker's picture

macholatte. brilliant post. even my chris mathews watching, diehard dem mom gets it now. more money to build a website than it cost to make titanic and avatar combined, and it don't work. and nobodies fired. and everybody gets to keep the money. wait till next year, when everyone with company coverage finds out they can't keep theirs either. buckle up.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 05:59 | 4122042 Truthseeker2
Truthseeker2's picture

This thing just keeps getting worse ... when you thought it already hit rock bottom!!!

 

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=2294

 

 

"Obamacare: Ongoing Disaster With No End In Sight"

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:36 | 4120991 Freddie
Freddie's picture

ObamaCare was designed to work like a giant roll of duct tape that would allow the current cast of characters in charge (Democratic Progressives) to pretend that the system could keep going a few years longer.

Careful Tylers - we cannot say that - We have to say Red Team Blue Team.  We might upset the Dems on ZH who voted for this.

Oh and I hate the ***ing RINOs/GOP-e/NeoCons too.   The real RINO scum like Rubio, McCain, Graham, Hatch, Flake - they are as bad as the Dems. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 05:58 | 4122040 WordSmith2013
WordSmith2013's picture

```

The whole OC rollout was manufactured to implode ...

how could thing have gone worse except by design?!

 

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=2294

 

"Affordable Care Act has all the hallmarks of a ‘Lead Zeppelin’"

```

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 07:00 | 4122079 doctor10
doctor10's picture

the best thing that can be said about ObamaCare is that there is no money to implement it.

the worst thing about ObamaCare is that the only place it can lead is to an even bigger mess- centralized single payer.

the best thingthat can be said  about the whole mess-is that it will upend the entire house of cards Fed.Gov has become-and it won't even take 5 years

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:33 | 4120520 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Think I counted 26 black swans there...now when do they land ?

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:39 | 4120999 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hopefully those 26 black swans will shit on Cramer's bald head as he pimps Blackberry/RIMM at $12.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:34 | 4120523 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

...As to Grift...Fraud...Corruption...

Once and for all, Gerald Celente Calls Out TPTB. Lets hope no harm comes to this fine Spokesperson on American Political Corruption. Go get'em Gerald...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEroBD7fE78&list=PLB1A898E94A412326

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:35 | 4120524 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Grifters would be suitable.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:40 | 4120530 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

You don't suppose it has anything to do with excessive government regulatory involvement and massive subsidization through Medicare financing mechanisms and Medicaid block grants to the states, as a few examples, do you? Nah.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 23:28 | 4121397 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"What do you give the government that's taken everything?"

"Dreams Come Due:  Government and Economics as if Freedom Mattered," by
John Galt, ISBN:  0-671-61159-3, Simon & Schuster, 1986

We were warned.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:42 | 4120535 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Everyone playing games due inappropriate incentives.

Now your doctor gets paid more (can upcode) for complex patients.

If he writes you more than one medicine he gets paid more
If he orders expensive testing he gets paid more.

System totally fucked up. I am a doctor btw.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 23:25 | 4121381 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

With the high deductible Obamacare plans, ($5,000++) I expect we'll see more procedures that target the 5K threshold being directly billed to the patient.

Avoid the Borg!

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:40 | 4120536 smartstrike
smartstrike's picture

Democratic Progressives? Oh boy , I think the last died in 1960s. Too much dope smoking in your youth Kunstler, so it' s no wonder you don't know one. Try neo-liberals, it's a better fit.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:02 | 4120569 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Try neo-liberals, it's a better fit.

Most of the "Progressives" I know vote Blue Team because:

1) "Think of the children"
2) Think of the supreme court picks
3) Think of how bad it'll be if (fill in name of semi-psychotic Red Team moron here) wins.

The Red and Blue Team have a lock on the dumbasses.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:41 | 4120537 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Cut through all the crap is our current political-medical world and bottom line is:

 

Obama and Clinton before him, realized the health care system in this countrty is totally f'd up and if they had their way would have fixed it with a single payor system.   It is the only realistic approach.

 

The oligarchs made sure to see that didn't happen.   The only thing good for sure with Obamacare is that the camel's nose is under the tent.  Once the GOP either sobers up or goes extinct, reasonable people who remain can de-politicize the problem and find a much better solution to the problem.  

 

Except that won't happen.   The party that destroyed America will more than likely take us all down together.   Whatever it takes to preserve the wealthiest with minimal discomfort on their part.

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:06 | 4120584 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Fuck you, shit for brains.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:28 | 4120629 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"The Obama administration insists nobody will lose coverage as a result of cancellation notices going out to millions of people. At least 3.5 million Americans have been issued cancellations, but the exact number is unclear. Associated Press checks find that data is unavailable in a half the states."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HEALTH_OVERHAUL_ANGST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-11-03-07-39-37

Fucking retard.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:16 | 4120739 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

For Alinskyites lying is not a dishonor, it is morally acceptable. The end justifies the means.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:01 | 4120859 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I'm just hoping the majority of these people voted for Obama. Can't wait for all the shithead women in my acquaintance who lauded such praises on that fucked up fraudster suffer consequences for their idiocy. Most of them have husbands out of work. Ok, schadenfreude doesn't become me but, God, I just want to rub some noses in shit!

Miffed;-)

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:26 | 4120950 starfcker
starfcker's picture

miffed, you're the best. somehow you still inhabit a world where men are men and women are women. where is that? i wanna live there! this is the moment of truth for the obamabots. spin can't change what this is doing. and it's just getting started. this is going to be interesting.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:50 | 4121056 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Well, it's a tiny little pocket of people 50 miles east of San Diego. We call it Rugged Individual Land. We're a fiery bunch but we get along quite well. Occasionally an undesirable wanders into our territory out from McMansion land to "experience the country". One had the audacity to comment to my neighbor who was scrapping our dirt road with his tractor : " You must be the person in charge of keeping the roads clear. Why can't you do this more often. I don't like my BMW going over so many bumps" I really can't tell you what happened after this but let's just say he moved about 2 months later! A like minded friend is always welcome but it does help if you have a tractor. ;-)

Miffed;-)

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:38 | 4120995 Geruda
Geruda's picture

Just more insurance company bullshit.  

 

What the insurance companies are doing is sending notice that "due to obamacare requirements" they have to cancel existing $300 policy, but offeriing a replacement policy that is $500. 

 

What they don't mention is that an equivalent policy can be purchased cheaper through the obamacare system and that with the subsidy, in the end the people will have equivalent or better insurance for less money.    

So fuck all you assholes yearning to believe the sky is falling.  

 

 

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:52 | 4121057 akak
akak's picture

I fully expect to live to see the day when, due to steadily growing government subsidization of food benefits for the 'needy', and with the inevitable rise in food prices a la university tuitions over the past several decades due to a similar federal subsidization, statist sheep such as you will be declaring that "the free market for food has failed" and that "we need a 'single payer" food provider in the USA as well.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:04 | 4121113 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I think all the executives at Monsanto suddenly found themselves with a strange shiver and massive erections.

Miffed;-)

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:43 | 4121230 BigSpruce
BigSpruce's picture

Ok Geruda -Keep drinking the KoolAid.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:26 | 4120949 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The commenter who is Gerutarda did the opportunity having on these words speakings:

The only thing good for sure with Obamacare is that the camel's nose is under the tent.  Once the GOP either sobers up or goes extinct, reasonable people who remain can de-politicize the problem and find a much better solution to the problem.

This is a good funnies you are doing the making by speaking words that are without many intelligences. Many of the peoples here would be having a major problem to be no understand of having kindness for peoples because you are thinking daddy take the banana tomorrow is Sunday.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:47 | 4121044 akak
akak's picture

It is many common for the peoples to be having the trouble of making the understandings of the angries and the writings of the poster who is Gerude-a because the poster who is Gerude-a is always making the having of the sucking of the cock of the president who is named Obama.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:45 | 4120545 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The FSA wants ObamaDontCare. And what the FSA wants the FSA gets.

Even if Old Man Yellen has to print a quadrillion quatraloons to pay for it.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:54 | 4120565 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Corbett is one switched on guy. Green for you.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:06 | 4120582 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

Yes I watched this earlier. One of his better ones. If you've got 44 minutes to spare, it's worth watching about how Rockefellers control medical system.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:50 | 4120555 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

I read this thing, wanting to get my righteous indignation into a fury, and throw out a few fixes that hit the mind with a first impression, but I couldn't. It is a symptom of a malaise, when health care is litteraly where you go to get your final wealth stripping. No prices anywhere ever. $50 dollar asprin, $23,000 a night, and you are really just another mark for the machine.

When you finally shed your rose colored glasses, you will see the AMA and their ilk, are at best charlatans, at worst, wraiths, here to harvest your soul, your wealth, your health. I will say, emergency care is their only use in my book. I would escape their cluthes as soon as you can, if they let you.

Ponder this my friends, does any one really ask the right questions to these people. Did you get better after visiting a doctor because of the care, or in spite of the care? For those able to answer, what is the surviorship bias? I will give them something for infectious diseases, parasites, but not a lot.

Save your breath, it is one of the last waypoints before you fully can be free.

 

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:05 | 4120581 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Adverse drug reactions alone are the 6th leading cause of death--those numbers are for prescribed drugs, admistered properly   Add in medication errors, hospital infections, surgical, nursing errors and malpractice and the medical system itself is probably in the top 3 causes of death.  Think about that . . . and stay healthy, my friend.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:45 | 4120789 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

In 2007 my father went into a local, well respected hospital at the request of his Dr. for a routine procedure. Within a day or two he contracted flu-like symptoms and was re-admitted two days later. Within five days he was dead and I missed saying goodbye due to a delayed flight back from Shanghai.

He was my best friend and I wasn't there for him as he had been for me all my life.

I will never set foot in a hospital unless I am carted in comatose or DOA.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:48 | 4120818 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

what is so f'd up about what you wrote Alaric is that I have heard similar stories from so many people.

Sorry to hear that. That is rough.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:02 | 4120856 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

I can't understand why patients who have communicable illnesses are not segregated from those who are accident victims or who are undergoing routine procedures. I guess that would require too much common sense and an understanding of  the "first do no harm" part of the Hippocratic Oath.

Sorry for your loss Alaric.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:13 | 4120899 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I had a similar experience AB. My dad and I were having a wonderful conversation before school. He begged me to stay home but I insisted I had to go and would come home directly after to continue the conversation. Yes, they pulled me out of Organic Chemisty to tell me he had died suddenly. He was my best friend and confidant too. I was left with my mother who hated me.

You wouldn't believe the guilt I had for years after that. I still have a hard time putting my loves ones on a plane and end up hugging them with tears in my eyes. My kids think its quite silly of me. I hope they always remain ignorant of what I've experienced.

Miffed;-)

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:20 | 4120927 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

This is occurring more frequently due to the sheer number of meds the average patient is on. It is not unusual any more to have patients on 30+ meds, I kid you not! Couple this with numerous drs on their care and numerous admissions I feel sorry for the nursing staff trying to keep it all straight. It's a known fact the more meds you take is directly proportional to poor health. Americans seem to think a pill will solve all their problems. It's certainly easier than eating right and exercising.

Miffed;-)

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:47 | 4121244 BigSpruce
BigSpruce's picture

That is why I always refer to it as death care not health care.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 23:49 | 4121492 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Meh, from the moment someone is born, they contract an appointment with Death, just a question when/how.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:09 | 4120587 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

They are exceptional at giving you infectious diseases, I will give you that.

The several times I have been hospitalized, I always contracted something

far worse than I went in for.

At least the wtch doctors I sometimes frequented on my travels never did that.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:49 | 4120671 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Organized medicine in the United States likes to make the case that they are the reason why Americans have such great long lives and wonderful health. The truth is very different. Over the last 150 years, the quality of life and longevity of Americans has improved dramatically (at least up until the last quarter of the 20th Century, when some metrics began to go south). But not because of medicine. One estimate I have seen attributes about 90% of these improvements to a host of relatively economical public health strategies - sanitary sewage management, vaccination programs, improvements in the safety of the value chains in the food industry, and so on. Other research shows that as much as 70% of the money we spend in healthcare in the US is a consequence of avoidable and preventable conditions. Meanwhile, we are still back in the Iron Age in our approach to managing mental and behavioral health, and I would argue that this is where real untapped improvement in health and quality of life can take place.

We have all been snookered, over many, many years into thinking that health care must be a social, as opposed to an ordinary good or service. It is this fundamental fact that is at the root of all that is drastically wrong with our healthcare industry, and getting rapidly worse. Americans as a group are the most over-medicated, over-treated people in the world, and the consequences to our quality of life as a whole of this broken view of healthcare are nothing short of catastrophic.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:53 | 4120558 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

The smart-n-savvy people don't get rich by offering their services at "fair value".  They screw everybody for the most they can (which ECON 101 was supposed to inform the semi-autistics about).    And, the smart-n-savvy people don't hire other people unless they prove they've got what it takes to BE smart-n-savvy people first.   

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:48 | 4120666 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

I like this post. It made me think about ECON 101 when I took it. I like the term sem-austistic too, it reveals much of the thought. Here the game, it is OK to defraud the marks because they were warned in ECON 101, that you were a predator, and they choose to ignore that advice, so by the laws of the hobo jungle, "They have been warned". They are sdescribed as emi-autistic, as any student of basic human programming knows, if you can de-humanize the object into something that doesn't resemble yourself, then it is open season, and you have no moral obligation to warn. Better yet, let them manoever you into a situation where the semi-autistics are actually threats, and not cows to be harvested, and now you are willing to engage in behaviors that are well out of anyones comfort zone.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:59 | 4120694 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: it reveals much of the thought.

It might reveal the wrong thought too, tho. 

What I never liked about the Libertarians and "Conservatives" who are always so gleefully preaching about competition and survival of the fittest is that they never realize that most people can't expect to win,    only a few are going to win.   So, what happens to the majority that lose (get eaten alive by the winners)?

The Libertarians are usually the semi-autistics that picked up the wrong message in ECON 101.   They think the virtuous win.   Naaa,  it's the assholes.  

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 18:58 | 4120570 max2205
max2205's picture

There are at least 20 govt programs that this same discussion could be applied to... Unfortunately just one of them blowing up will blow the economy up...

We are fucked. Eventually

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:02 | 4120576 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

I spent some time in the hospital.  I had a good view of the parking lot from my room.  I learned that there were 26 patients in nthe hospital when I was there.  There were over 300 cars in the parking lot.  There's your $23K a day.

 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:03 | 4120578 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"In a bureaucratic system, increases in expenditure are paralleled by a corresponding decrease in production." - Uncle Milty ;-)

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:07 | 4120586 toady
toady's picture

Healthcare is broke and getting broker in the US. It's so corrupt it's the 6th largest economy on the planet. Everyone knows bamacare is designed to fail. The only real question at this point is will we get single payer or complete collapse?

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:15 | 4120600 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  The only real question at this point is will we get single payer or complete collapse?

A single payer guarantees a complete collapse because a single payer would be the equivalent to Big-MIC, which exists to move loot to the politically connected.

Do you really think Big-SinglePayer would be run for a different purpose than the exists Big-Gov scams are: Big-Ag, Big-MIC, Big-Road, Big-Water, Big-Airport, Big-Energy, Big-Ed, Big-House, Big-Fin, Big-OldFart, Big-OldFartHealthcare, Big-AntiDrug, & Big-PoliceState?

The best system would be each state deals with the problem on its own.   Some states would get screwed some wouldn't, but at least the entire country wouldn't be getting screwed. 

The only protection the nice people have from the sociopaths is forcing them to complete with each other.  Letting the Federal government do anything ensures the sociopaths win.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:36 | 4120641 toady
toady's picture

So you're saying single payer followed immediately by collapse?

I"m leaning towards collapse. Too many vested interests, big-insurance, big-finance, AMA, and of course all those campaign contributions, guarantee never seeing single payer.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:46 | 4120661 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  So you're saying single payer followed immediately by collapse?

No.   i'd never claim the single payer would be a WORSE scam the all the existing ones set-up over the last 60+ years.   If the OldFarts get Medicare, everybody should have it.  And Medicare didn't collapse anything by-it-self.

But, single payer would just be another Fed-Gov monopoly.  And all monopolies are run by self-serving assholes using the monopoly to enrich themselves (just as the guy in the mirror I see everybody morning would do). 

We've got the only system possible.   The smart-n-savvy people are eating the dumbasses alive.   It's just how humans compete, nothing we can do about it.  

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:52 | 4121265 BigSpruce
BigSpruce's picture

The powers that be are banking on single payer but due to the inevitable currency collapse we will end up with total health care collapse. Our rulers are demonic

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:59 | 4120630 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

It is horrifying to me that people dont realize how awful the medical field has become. I used to see delirious patients in the hospital. Now neurologists are clamoring to see them. Why? They can bill 600 bucks, a 300 dollar evaluation fee and a 300 dollar fee to read an EEG. An EEG is almost never needed for a delirium eval but since insurance will allow the delirium code to be used to order an EEG then 100 percent of delirious patients seen by neurologists get an EEG.

Cardiologists put stents in dead people. Sometimes they have to really rush to get the recently deceased man in the operating room so it still looks semi legitimate. ("was he still alive?" staff scratch their heads). They all do it.

I am a doctor but i will not carry a donor card. Why? Transplants are so lucrative and transplant teams are so eager that anyone who observes them knows that at the margin they will call you dead faster if you are a donor than if you are not.

I could go on.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:28 | 4120631 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

One of the goals of a functioning healthcare system is to impart pain on decision makers.

Patient own your own health

DR own your own healthcare delivery.

 

In the future your article will be more about why you needed three major operations in a year. Why hip replacements have such poor longevity?  Why you needed heart operations? and why spine operation?  What you could do to remove the need for the operation: Yoga, excercise.....

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:41 | 4120652 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: Patient own your own health

I agree with you, but there's also bad luck.    People do need health-care.

We have a system very good at creating expensive new procedures which are truely leading-edge, but no way to keep the smart-n-savvy people from extracting huge fees.

Perhaps the Germans (and other countries) can pull it off because the natural sociopathic nature of humans is tempored by ethnic identity (Germans will happily screw the French but not as much each other?)...  Who knows.  But in the US it's a survival of the fittests screw-or-be-screwed society.   And the smart-n-savvy people are very good at it.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:48 | 4121042 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Yes accidents happen, but now there is no counterbalance.  Only three systems all aiming to sub-optimize to their own benefit.  All the while the patient is fucked.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:44 | 4120644 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

"sweep away all the layers of racketeering with a single-payer system"

 

Single payer system?   You mean monopoly? 

Monopolies would never abuse their customers, would they?

They never engage in predatory pricing, price fixing and cost shifting <sarcasm>. 

We all bought MSFT "7" because we wanted to, not because MSFT stopped updating and released malicious code to sabotage their customer base, right?

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 19:46 | 4120665 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

You Lie !!!

- Rep. Joe Wilson, September 10, 2009

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:29 | 4120765 Reaper
Reaper's picture

Why is similar care for major surgeries way cheaper in India? Because its consumers shop for price and quality. Any insurance which may compensate for such expenses is collected by the patient.
US employer paid insurance is a creature created in response to WW II restrictions on employment compensation. Catastrophic insurance once paid the patient, not the doctor, nor the hospital. Government has perverted medical payments since WW II. Wait till all those suckas with those high Obamacare deductibles, discover that they'll pay higher rates during their deductible phase to cover the government mandated free or below cost Medicaid services.

Government planning got us into this mess. More government planning as a solution is a fool's fantasy. Let paying patients shop for price and quality. Let charitable care be paid by the government, not by cost shifting to hospitals, which then extract it in part from the paying customers. .

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:49 | 4120819 silverisgold
silverisgold's picture

Kunzler is crazy if he thinks 'Democratic Progressives' are in charge of Obamacare or anything else. They are more marginalized within the Democratic Party than TeaBaggers in the republican party.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 20:49 | 4120825 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Exercise, eat right, sleep well, and you'll beat back 99% of illnesses. Catastrophic insurance for the rest.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:02 | 4120864 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Here is an interesting side piece on Obamacare and you can keep your insurance plan if you like it lie. Congress knew also, Mike Enzi even offered a resolution to amend the rule that is forcing so many Americans to lose coverage now. When you lose your insurance make sure to take notes on the voting lines here as far as who to vote out that is still in office.

Here is the Senate roll call vote.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...

Original article.

http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/15478-vulnerable-senate-democrats-...

...

Sen. Mike Enzi (R-WY) offered the resolution, S.J. Res. 39, that would have rejected the rule submitted by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). The rule made it virtually impossible for insurance companies to maintain a plan’s “grandfathered” status, which refers to any plans in effect before March 23, 2010.

The reason the rule was written so strictly was because the goal of the administration was to ensure that all health insurance plans would eventually be subject to the requirements and mandates, meaning that every American would have coverage that meets the approval of government bureaucrats and regulators.

“At least 47 separate times, President Obama promised ‘If you like what you have you can keep it.’ Unfortunately, the Obama Administration has already broken that promise,” said Enzi from the Senate floor in September 2010. “Earlier this year, the Administration published the regulation, which will fundamentally change the health insurance plans of millions of Americans.”

“Although the regulation was supposed to help existing health plans, and the businesses that provide them, avoid the most onerous new rules and red tape included in the new health care law, between 39 percent and 69 percent of businesses will lose their status as members of grandfathered health plans,” he noted. “The picture is even worse for small businesses – the Department of Health and Human Services estimates that by 2013, up to 80 percent of small businesses will lose their grandfathered status.”

As CNN noted, the resolution failed in a party-line vote, 41 to 59. And again, Landrieu, Begich, Pryor, and Hagan voted in support of the rule that is causing Americans to lose their health insurance coverage, even if they were happy with it.

Avik Roy, a healthcare policy analyst at the Manhattan Institute, recently noted that the Obama Administration’s estimates translate to 93 million people who will lose and/or see a disruption their individual and group health insurance plans.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:12 | 4120893 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Here's a 1:35 video of Obama telling the same lie over and over and over...

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/flashback-obama-promises-if-you-like-your-plan-you-can-keep-it-at-least-a-dozen-times/

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:14 | 4120901 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Here's an article about how you will lose your healthcare subsidies if you let the insurance company automatically sign you up for a new plan (outside of the exchanges):

http://swampland.time.com/2013/10/30/another-glitch-americans-could-miss-out-on-obamacare-subsidies-for-insurance-in-2014/#ixzz2jhFPjFZy
Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:13 | 4120905 SMC
SMC's picture

You do not go to an American medical facility to get well - you go there to manage your death.

Personally, I will not risk my family's economic independence to live a few more years in this shit hole we call a country.

Come to think of it, I have never felt so good and healthy since I stopped doing what the scumbag quacks said years ago - and I'm still here, go figure.

Just say No. No Doctors. No Prescripton Drugs. No Hospitals.

Better to die debt free - having been useful and helpful to others, than to slowly waste away as an organic drone in the Obummer SickCare system.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 21:38 | 4120992 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

Obamacare: The Continuous Rise and Fall Of The Machines With Complex Insurance Math Models Resulting In Spasmodic, Executing “Killer Algorithms”–And Gov Can’t Model…

Playing out just like the markets in many ways...it's all about math  models that raise or lower risk depending on the profit function and yes we are getting at the bottom wo where the creative formulas are getting harder to find Quants who can save the day.  The insurance industry is hiring Quants in groves.  It's all machine driven on what's happening here...the rise of the machines in healthcare...and insurers have overdone segmentation with using saving money as the incentive for too long..not working anymore..

By the way, new documentary from VPro out today..."The Code of Wall Street" speaking of models and code...very interesting...the Hedge fund toward the end...a shocking reality for many who don't have this perception of how it is..

http://ducknetweb.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-wall-street-codenew-documenta...

Reality of all of this is those who have and control the "code" have all the money...Algos move money everywhere. 

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:07 | 4121117 adr
adr's picture

I sliced my hand pretty bad and I thought I needed stitches. I went to a minute clinic and waited 15 minutes, then I was told the nurse couldn't do stitches and that I had to go to the ER.

So I went to the ER, because I live in a middle class white town it was empty. I waited twenty minutes in the lobby and then went to the lady taking my insurance info, which took another ten minutes or so. Eventually I was brought to a room where I waited for a nurse. She came in ten minutes later and took the wet towel I used to wrap my hand and swapped it for some guaze. She told me a doctor would be in to check my cut and give me stitches.

I waited for a half hour and a doctor came in. He took the guaze off and by the time I went through everything the cut had closed up and was no longer bleeding much at all. He said he would need to open the cut back up to check it there was anything trapped that could lead to an infection. So he proceed to rip open my hand, which hurt more than the initial cut. Turns out I cut almost all the way through, but right on the edge of needing stitches. The doctor decided to use dermabond and a butterfly bandage. 

So I waited a little longer for a resident to come in and apply some dermabond and a band-aid. I was in the actual hospital room for about an hour and was released.

About fifteen days later I received a bill for $1800 from the hospital and $600 from the doctor who I saw for about ten minutes. So $2400 for superglue and a bandaid.

 The best part was the hospital fucked up the billing and sent a claim to the wrong insurance company that never got paid. So the hospital sent me to collection for $800, which was the insurance balance, which was not my responsibility to pay. The hospital claimed that since a claim was sent out, they can't make a new claim to the right insurance company until the balance is paid. Because the initial claim must be paid, I would need to pay the insurance company the hospital billed and have them reimburse me. The catch with that one is the other insurance company wouldn't take a payment from me because I don't have insurance with them.

So I explained this to the hospital and they said it was up to me to get the insurance situation straightened out because once a claim goes to collection it is out of the hospital's hands. So I said fuck you, I paid $400 which was my copay and more than enough for some superglue and a bandaid. 

My credit score went from 840 to 725 which was almost enough to say fuck my credit score completely and screw the bank that screwed me on my mortgage and the credit line I've been paying back for five years because my wife wasn't good with money before we got married.

The easy solution is for everyone to say, "Fuck you, I'm not paying."

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:21 | 4121167 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Your story is so fucked up I can only believe every word of it.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:09 | 4121123 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

I'm keeping my old policy, whether I like it so much or not.  Of course, I've had my policy for about 5 years so it's grandfathered in.  My home state (Minnesota) has required all the features required by ObamaCare for years, so almost no policies sold here need to change.   My wife's employer offers her very good employee-only coverage at a great price, but family care is exorbitant.  That also predates ACA by years. 

This is yet another way in which ACA was the ultimate Insurance industry wet dream.  Now they have a great excuse to get rid of all their least lucrative policies, and everyone will blame Obama for oppressing the poor insurance companies who only wanted to sell people the reasonbly-priced product people wanted, until the mean-old government made them stop.

The problem with health care involves the fee-for-service model, the corporate management system, and the involvement of Finance.  ObamaCare maintains all of those conditions.  Therefore, all Obamacare does is help Finance get out the back door with the bag of loot before the edifice comes crashing down. Because it is crashing down.  Citizens and employers can't afford the bloated healthcare finance cost anymore.  ObamaCare buys another couple years of looting, but no more.  Eventually it collapses and the next Republican President opens up Medicare to everyone, like the big employers want.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 22:15 | 4121148 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

Ya know the thing about this healthcare biz is we only got time for administrators and insurers.  All the rest of that kissy - feely doctorin stuff is so last decade.  Move on boys and girls - its the bamycare nightmare.

Mon, 11/04/2013 - 23:53 | 4121509 manich
manich's picture

I dislike ObamaCare. I wanted the Democratic Plan, but our Wimp in Chief serves up an old Republican plan that has been floating around since the Nixon days. It wasn't going to work in the '70s, and it won't work now.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 00:13 | 4121600 IlluminatiSlaveDog
IlluminatiSlaveDog's picture

If they practiced honest medicine the costs would come down significantly.  There is more scientific knowledge that has been expunged from the medical practice model that allows the disease state to remain chronic and under treatment rather than cured.  How often do you tell them in english what's going on, they regurgitate it back in latin as a gold plated diagnosis and send you on your merry way to get the prescription filled.  A very high percentage of autoimmiune chronic illness with garbage diagnosis is caused by stealth infections that are overlooked and can smolder for decades as a chronic immune inflamitory response that bleeds over into tissue damage called autoimmunity.  This goes on constatnly with chronic conditions where the symptoms are treated and managed long term, with never an effort to discover or cure the underlying causes. Professionals get banished from the kingdom if they turn on the current day dogma and expose the truth.  If you crash and burn, there is no place better than the US medical system to fix you up.  Come down with a chronic condition, and you are financially screwed to the wall.  It's about making money in the business of illness because the profit stops with the cure.  The profits also stop if you don't get involved with drugs such as statin drugs that actually cause harm by blocking the production of CoEnzyme Q10 that your heart actually needs.  You also need cholesterol, your brain cells are made of it.  Your kid is allergic to peanuts, did you ever think that the vaccines that they get might include peanut oil.  Look it up.  Your kid have asthma, did you know that pertusus innoculation is used to induce asthma in guinea pigs to research asthma.  Look it up.  The system is corrupt not only on the financial side, but also on the practice side of the equation too.  Nothing like getting financially pillaged at the federal level to only have your health pillaged when you are not even sick.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 01:27 | 4121801 blindman
blindman's picture

@ "grift and counter grift".
.
that is the essence of the system, money,
at the basic unit of measure that enables
the frenetic control system, physical,
psychological and historic.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 02:04 | 4121836 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

Ok.  So you got a hospital bill you thought was too high and now you know all the problems in the system.  Well.. let me explain a few things, and then we shall see.  1)  The implant that was received in the story above cost $7000 (after negotiations, $14,000 if you tried to pay for it yourself out of pocket) because it is probably still under patent and the company that makes it can basically charge whatever they want (it does have to be hand crafted to fit your joint, but the price is the price).  It is much cheaper to purchase this joint in India or wherever, because they just don´t give a damn about U.S. patents (and they didn´t invent the joint either and never will invent anything like it because there is no incentive to do so).  Also have you seen the salary of the medical supply company CEOs?  They tend to be the highest paid people in the world (yes more than Lloyd Blankfein or Beyonce).  Don´t even ask me about how the patent issue affects the price of prescription drugs and how the prescription drug industry works!  I could go on for hours.

2)  The doctor´s fees are huge because the medical schools deliberately limit the number of physicians and surgeons that they train so that wages remain inflated.  The result also is that most doctors, especially general practitioners, have far too many patients to handle effectively (as a general practitioner, no one does well handling 18 patients in a day, yet many doctors see that many or more).  Granted, the physicians tend to be of better quality than if more were admitted and trained, but that is offset by the fact that they are generally overworked and have too large caseloads.  Physicians fees are also very high because of the inordinate burden of student loans that they take on.  Of course the government could solve this problem by having free medical school for those that qualify... but why waste taxpayer money on such a thing when you can waste it on paying for unnecessary Medicare procedures.  Also you may have seen the physician for 10 minutes, but he probably spent 30-45 minutes reviewing your chart, labs, images, and other diagnostics.  He also has a staff (including billers that must be paid) and overhead expenses for an office (don´t forget his malpractice insurance, which probably costs him $250,000 a year or more).

3)  $23,000 may seem like a lot for 2 days in the hospital, but you are also paying for all the people who came in and for whom the hospital did not get paid, either because they had no insurance (and the hospital did not use me to get them Medicaid or get them to pay) or because their insurance company refused to pay.  A small to mid-sized hospital will often have a million USD or more each month in bad debt that never gets paid (which could be as much as 15% of all revenue).  You are also paying for a huge insurance contract that each hospital must carry (insurance stacked upon insurace, you see, with multiple insurance companies profiting off each health-care transaction).  You are paying for state-mandated nurse staffing levels, a physician in attendance (even if you didn´t see him)- see point 1 above, (this is in addition to your personal physician and your surgeon), a host of billing people and a case manager, a social worker to plan your discharge, a pt and ot evaluation (these folk don´t work cheap either), an administrative staff, a janitor, a kitchen staff, food, any fines that state health inspectors may decide to levy if someone doesn´t hold their hand and butter them up when they come to inspect (and the state inspectors really have no idea what is going on and know very little about patient care, since most of them never worked in actual patient care), probably a large bond issue to pay for state-of-the-art facilities and equipment, a surgery staff of 2 or 3 well-paid folk, an anesthesiologist (who has a staff, malpractice insurance, etc.).  I could go on, but you get the idea.

So now you start to see what a mess the system is...

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:06 | 4121882 trader1
trader1's picture

the american health care system pre-ACA is going to implode under its own merits.  the american people have been duped for so long. you should all be rooting for universal health care as the system lowers the cost of care while attaining the same outcomes.  look to germany, switzerland, singapore, etc...

but, how is it surprising to watch this ridiculous debate since they believed the al qaeda fantasy and WMD tales beginning a decade long kill fest (directly and indirectly) of half a million brown folks in faraway places to avenge the deaths of ~3000 ppl. 

 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 03:29 | 4121951 malek
malek's picture

 sweep away all the layers of racketeering with a single-payer system

Yes!!! We need more government to fix these things! Not. Same thinking error the vast majority OWS people have.

How about an ancient thing still known to a few people and called "competition." For example by enabling and enforcing the Sherman act once again for medical providers.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 08:14 | 4122141 sheikurbootie
sheikurbootie's picture

Merck Regional Director $300,000+

Merck District Manager $200,000+

Merck Sales slug $100,00+

There are 100's of these drones in every city and over 100,000 nationwide, just with Merck.   Multiply that by dozens of major pharma "sales" slugs and you have a huge waste of resources.  Sorry, I have friends in these positions and it's amazing to see talentless people doing nothing all day and soaking all of us in the end. 

These people do NOTHING.  Absolute useless part of medicine.  Did they have pharma reps 40 years ago?  Does Europe have pharma reps?  NO!  At least not in these unbelievable numbers.  The first time you meet a pharma rep and see that they live far better than an actual PHYSICIAN, then maybe you'll understand.  Pharma reps are a ridiculous waste.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 08:46 | 4122238 thethirdcoast
thethirdcoast's picture

+1 million

I used to get allergy shots on a regular basis and I would constantly see these scumbags show up to schmooze with admins and drop off free samples. After that they would beg for 30 minutes of the doctor's time. Most of them seemed absolutely clueless, and I'm sure many of them were former cheerleaders or quarterbacks that were hired for looks.

If the market really worked these people would be out of a job. Admins and doctors could easily go to a secure sample website to order free samples on a monthly basis. There is no need to pay some meat sack in a suit over $100k a year to drive around and drop off pharma samples. Just drop that stuff in registered mail and voila.

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