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The Next Obamacare Debacle: A Massive Doctor Shortage

Tyler Durden's picture


While the Obamacare website rollout may be a huge slap in the face of government (in)efficiency and (dis)organization ( has now joined the ranks of all other New Normal "full-time" workers by working part-time following a daily maintenance shutdown from 1 am to 5 am), the reality is that sooner (unlikely) or much later it will be fixed. And while the realization that the Unaffordable Care Act is just that, and will soak up far more cash from the majority of the population will be a slap in the face of all who never understood that socialist Ponzi schemes always cost far more in the bitter end, it is nothing that America's favorite pastime can't resolve - paying on credit. Which means that the biggest threat to Americans as a result of Obamacare is neither the website, nor really who foots the bill (ask future generations), but the actual impact on services, and as CBS reports the next shock to brace for is the sudden drop off in healthcare providers as an imminent "explosion of demand for doctors and services" mean a looming doctor shortage is just around the corner.

From CBS:

At Current Rate, As Many As 52,000 Primary Care Physicians Needed By 2025. Even doctors who support Obamacare say there could be delays due to more patients and fewer doctors, CBS 2’s Dick Brennan reported Monday.


“It’s like shopping during Christmas time. I mean, you’re going to have a tough time if you have all of these people demanding services at the same time,” said Dr. Steven Lamm of the NYU School of Medicine.


Lamm said the Affordable Care Act could mean an explosion of demand for doctors and services, but will the system be able to handle it?


"I think the concern would be that the system will be overwhelmed, that there will be a greater demand that we can meet in a quality fashion and that we will have to delay services for a lot of individuals,” Lamm said.

Wait, did someone just ask if the "system" would be able to handle an unforeseen consequence? The same system that couldn't even maintain the most foreseen event such as website traffic on the main Obamacare portal into day one? Yes, they did!

In the meantime, doctors are preparing to just say to hell with it all.

Right now, there is already a shortage of 20,000 doctors nationwide, and with healthcare expansion, plus increasing population, there will be a need for about 52,000 primary care doctors by 2025.


This while only 20 percent of new doctors become primary care physicians and the new landscape has older doctors bailing, Brennan reported.


“Doctors are planning to retire. Anybody who is anywhere near retirement age is talking about retirement. … There’s just too much going on,” said Dr. Sam Unterricht of the New York State Medical Society.


Others fear that centralizing medical care will squeeze out small independent doctor groups, groups that insurers claim are more expensive, in favor of large centralized care.


“It will be inferior care. They will end up going to clinics, to situations where they don’t have their own private physician. When they go to hospitals they are not going to know any of doctors who are taking care of them,” cardiologist Dr. David Hess said.


Just by sheer numbers, doctor retirements will increase. Nearly half right now are over the age of 50, and the American Medical Association says nurses will also be in short supply, Brennan reported.

The makeshift solution: promote unqualified doctors

Doctors say one solution could be a quick infusion of residents. “They are not training enough residents. The number of medical students has increased a little bit, but the number of residency spots has not. They’ve kept the number of residency spots frozen for, I think, 13 years now,” Unterricht said.

In short: less qualified doctors, as those who know what they are doing, and know what is coming choose simply to retire, offset by a surge in veritable Dr. Nicks.

 Yet another unqualified success for central-planning.

The above in video format:


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Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:05 | 4122276 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

fuck insurance all together.



Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:07 | 4122285 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

Walmart Medical School to the rescue!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:14 | 4122301 Steve in Greensboro
Steve in Greensboro's picture

There is no problem so bad that intervention by the U.S. Federal government cannot make it worse.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:17 | 4122319 g'kar
g'kar's picture

india, Pakistan and the Phillipines to the rescue.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:21 | 4122326 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

While Americans will wait increasingly longer to see a doctor under the ZerOcare Regime, they will probably start incorporating "minute clinics" @ The Dollar Store:

'Squeezed Middle Class Looks To Dollar Stores'


Consumers are feeling pinched and are on the hunt for the best bargains. For many, that now means shopping at dollar stores.


The decline of the middle class and its impact on retailers was a hot topic at the Stocktoberfest conference last month hosted by social investing site StockTwits. Bentz and Joseph Brusuelas, a senior economist with Bloomberg Briefs, both spoke about the trend.

Brusuelas said that many people looking for work are being forced to take jobs in lower wage industries like retail, leisure and hospitality, health care and social assistance. There also has been a rise in companies offering just part-time positions.

That shift could be one reason why sales at Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500) stores open more than a year declined 0.3% during second quarter.

Because Obama.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:22 | 4122340 negative rates
negative rates's picture

No shortage of apples I am pleased to report.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:34 | 4122383 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

If you like your country, you can keep your country.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:40 | 4122406 Truthseeker2
Truthseeker2's picture


1 – O B A – A M A – C A R E


First they get your body; then they take your mind; then they grab your soul.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:49 | 4122435 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Angry ZHers need to accept that progressives have won this one. Finally America is putting affordable healthcare ahead of the profits of insurance companies. America voted for Obama for a second term, and most Americans want the affordable healthcare act. This is a fact, and if ZHers belive in democracy, they need to support this bill.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:57 | 4122462 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

D-   Try harder!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:20 | 4122559 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Mr............Mr. Blutarsky: zero point zero.


We knew this shit a while back. Docs will just decide to walk away.

I asked mine 2 visits ago what he planeed to do. He said "fuck it, I'm 67 and better time"

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:14 | 4122737 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Allow nurses and PAs to see patients, allow people to buy drugs like in Mexico.

Make hospitals, doctors, labs and pharmacies post cash and carry prices.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:05 | 4123149 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Make?  Did you mean "allow"?

Freedom, bitchez.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:00 | 4122477 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

affordable?  my premiums are skyrocketing next year....and AETNA will no longer honor any prescriptions my doctor writes (effectively cancelling my doctor of 20 yrs).

what planet are you on?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:01 | 4122478 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Good one, MDB, and an up-vote accordingly. But your tongue's gonna pop right through your cheek if you're not careful.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:09 | 4122517 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

No worries. Dr. Bottomclass will stitch that sucker up with Stren in no time.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:04 | 4122482 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Majority of Americans do NOT want Obamacare and that number has NEVER been positive.

C'mon, you're so much better when you don't lie.  Your humor works better if you remain factually correct but apply your own twisted logic to it.  Seriously, you're better than this.  Poor form.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:06 | 4123157 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Yep.  Normally I give MDB a greenie but I had to junk him this time for lack of effort.  

What was that, a cut-and-paste from  You're better than that!!!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 14:14 | 4123429 g'kar
g'kar's picture

I gave him a + because he had to have been sarcastic.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:02 | 4122487 More_sellers_th...
More_sellers_than_buyers's picture

first off , the majority of Americans do not support it.  And Secondly, I believe in a constitutional republic, not democracy. Morons like you put us in this mess.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:24 | 4122580 Pesky Labrador
Pesky Labrador's picture

America didn't put Ocare in front of profits, this whole thing reeks of corparate insurance cutting out all the little companies. Obama stole the election (thank you Die Bold) he didn't win shit. They've rigged the game and its been them versus us for decades now. This Ocare mess isn't going down as smoothly as they had hoped and it just might be the final straw that breaks the union.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:14 | 4122748 MR166
MR166's picture

Ocare will will reduce our medical care to that of England or Canada.  If you have a cold or something that does not require a specialist you will get adequate care.  If you need special care you will wait years if you live that long.  For instance, if you have early stage breast cancer in England there is no treatment until it progresses.  How would you like to live knowing that you have cancer and cannot get treatment????   The US will wind up with 2 medical systems, one for the rich and one for the poor just like England.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:53 | 4123108 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Government Pays $400M to Reduce the Number of Physicians:

Isn't it nice to see how well central control by the corrupt works?



Tue, 11/05/2013 - 18:00 | 4124375 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

Evidence, from a REPUTABLE source please.

Ah yes, right, there isn't any, is there. There are PLENTY of effective early phase treatments, all widely used in the UK NHS (e.g. Tamoxifen, Herceptin [for the poorer-prognosis HER +ve tumours]). Surgically, lumpectomies are more popular than radical mastectomies (less disfiguring, shorter Theatre times, reduced intra- and post-opreative complication risk), with a broadly comparable recurrence risk to the older radical surgeries. In all cases, the Patients are presented with the necessary, and complete, information to make a fully informed decision.

Anecdotally, the "Private" sector prefers the "quick Day Surgery" lumpectomy with adjuvant radiotherapy approach (with or wihout axillary lymph node clearance, depending on the degree of localisation and cytology). Anecdotally (again), the recurrence rate (5 year and 10- year) in the Private sector is not quite as good as the NHS (Public) sector, but the difference is certanly not statistically significant.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:21 | 4123204 InflammatoryResponse
InflammatoryResponse's picture



you have no idea what you're excited about.  you need to talk to the people that LIVE under socialized medicine.  Not your friend of a friend who wen to Germany an had a broken toe and didn't have to pay a thing.  You need to talk the people I know that in Germany they are assigned to a neurologist on the 3rd floor of a building with stairs only.  the problem? the patient is in a WHEEL CHAIR.  my friend had to carry her UP the stairs and down.


I only hope that you get to suffer the consequences of your foolish support for this bill.  A loved one dying because of this stupid law, that is going to ruin the best healthcare ability in the world.


now before you say  OMG you goof we spend more money on healthcare than anybody else.  I would submit that if you LOOK at where we spend the vast chunk of money it is on PREVENTABLE CHRONIC disease,  heart disease, diabetes, etc.   all LIFESTYLE problems,  


so neener neener.



and ADVIL won't make me go away either.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:41 | 4123287 Ljoot
Ljoot's picture

Your pimp hand is weak today MDB.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:17 | 4123637 Flying Wombat
Flying Wombat's picture

Liar-in-Chief Obama: Denies ‘you can keep it’ videotaped promises

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:25 | 4123679 DaveA
DaveA's picture

MDB is right, polls show that the majority of Americans want their health care paid for by someone else.

Someone Else was unavailable for comment.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:57 | 4122468 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I want to be a school nurse.  3 months off a year, $85K/year for doing nothing, nice pension, nice benefits.  Not allowed to give ANY nursing aid to anyone under any circumstances, no aspirin, not even a band-aid.  If something serious comes up they just call 911 like any other schmo.  I mean, what do they do with their day?  

I'll take that gig.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:32 | 4122599 MilleniumJane
MilleniumJane's picture

I hate to burst your bubble, but most schools do not have nurses anymore.  In our state, the health department comes in to give the eye and hearing exams, head lice checks, etc.  They've also been asking the students rather intrusive (in my opinion) "lifestyle" questions.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:18 | 4122759 tbone654
tbone654's picture

We have a nurse... she takes the kids that skin their knees on the playground, gives them some attention, then either sends them back to their classes, or calls their parents to come and get them...  Not just anyone can do that...

And while they are waiting for mom or dad to come and get them they ARE asked about what mom and dad are making them for breakfast these days, and "does your father or mother spank you while they bully you around?"

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:20 | 4122770 tbone654
tbone654's picture

And that nurse WILL be promoted to full fledged U.S. Doctor one day...

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:15 | 4123190 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

We're already teaching our 5-year-old to respond with "I respectfully decline to answer your questions."

If the question has nothing to do with the basic subject matter, he knows he is not to answer them.  We'll see how it goes.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:56 | 4123348 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

+1 good idea. mine isnt old enough to talk yet, but i think we will do the same thing. sad that this is neccessary but i do believe it is. and it will only be worse by the time mine starts school. might have to start looking into that RP homeschool course

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:47 | 4122844 Jena
Jena's picture

I know a school nurse.  She's responsible for the planning of care for six schools in one district.  In those six schools are kids that wouldn't have been mainstreamed a dozen years ago because of cerebral palsy, a variety of degrees of autism spectrum disorder, cystic fibrosis with serious lung and digestive problems that require attention on a daily basis and others but you get my drift.  All those kids with serious enough problems have aids with them (this is California, after all) but she is ultimately responsible for what those aids do and do not do for the sick kids while they are on school property.

It is a nightmare job because if anything untoward happens to one of those kids, she is ultimately responsible.  It is her license on the line because she is the only one with a license to bear the responsibility.  She says this is her last year.  We'll see.  She said the same thing last year but the load seems to get bigger every year.

It is a long way from being the person who tends to skinned knees and ask probing questions.

This is similar to what Obamacare will serve up:

Low level care in the form of techs (unlicensed personnel providing care) under the eyes of nurses,  There will be nurse practitioners and physician assistants overseeing them and one single doctor who signs off on everything.  If anything goes wrong, s/he will bear the brunt in the form of license revocation and lawsuit.  No one will be actually seen or touched by a doctor, probably not even in surgery.  There will be techs there, too.

The one way to keep a doc is to go with a concierge practice.  And even that will be iffy.  Right now private practice docs are selling their practices to hospital chains as fast as they can.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 18:25 | 4124480 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

The "lifespan" of technicans in Surgery may be limited anyhow - there is a lot of interest (and major investment) in fully robotic surgery.

Right now using "robotic assist" is as safe as relying on surgical assistants and the advantages are significant, especially in terms of reduced infection risk. The disadvantages are that unlike a "human" surgeon, the "machines" have a much poorer ability to react to an unexpected situation (e.g. vessel rupture), in a timely fashion. They CAN fix it, but their "thought processes" are more pedantic, vs. the experienced Surgeon's almost instantaneous "problem recognition, skill-set already up and running, fix" response.

There is a LOT of activity in the development and fine tuning of robotic surgical algorithms - this search string generates almost 8 million hits via Google. Robotic surgery is important now, and will gain importance in the future. It probably will not replace the art of the skilled human Surgeon, but will enable a better standard of service (with improved safety) for many, especially if combined with telesurgical developments.

LOTS of interest in Australia, with the real option of offering World-class surgical procedures to Patients in remote areas, without the need for transport of significantly ill individuals.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:51 | 4122441 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

If you like your children, you can keep your children.




Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:17 | 4122558 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Just not the inferior ones or the few Bad Apples.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:56 | 4122685 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Except the ones that have "changed' in the ensuing months. Those we'll need for cannon fodder.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:36 | 4122385 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Lucky for all of us, our dear leader is about to grant amnesty to millions of Dr. Nick Rivieras.  Hi everybody!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:39 | 4122403 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Hi, Doctor Nick!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:40 | 4122404 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

"Dr. Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho will see you now."

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:52 | 4122450 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

With the Open Door Immigration Policy the medical field will look similat to the IT sector.



Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:10 | 4122525 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:20 | 4122575 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

That doctor in Idiocracy is our future.  "Riggghhhht. Kick ass."

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:40 | 4123025 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

That's Doctor Lexus to you, 'scrote.

"Well, don't want to sound like a dick or nothin', but, ah... it says on your chart that you're fucked up. Ah, you talk like a fag, and your shit's all retarded. What I'd do, is just like... like... you know, like, you know what I mean, like...

...don't worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded. She's a pilot now."


Frito: Yah I know this place pretty good, I went to law school here.

Pvt. Joe Bowers: In Costco?

Frito: Yah I couldn't believe it myself, luckily my dad was an alumnus and pulled some strings.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:12 | 4122497 remain calm
remain calm's picture

OK, I am a doctor. I am a subspecialist. 5 years college(pharmacy), 4 years medical school, 5 years residency. I always got excellent grades, valedvictorian of college, top 10% medical school, honored at prestigeous residency as best resident. I make a good living, I earned it.

Let me tell you what the American people are going to get and they are going to get exactly what they deserve(voted for). Inferior care going forward. The government is going to legislate to expand the scope of Nurse Practioners, Physician Assistants, and other non MD ancillary providers and give them greater decision making, ie, make them pseudo doctors.

Do you think a RN or PA who was an everage student, limited training 1-2 years post college, can provide you with the same level of care as someone who worked hard and spent thousands of hours up after midnight? Can make the critical and difficult life saving decisions based on knowlege and ?

The American people in the next 10-15 years are about to get fucked by Obamacare and they won't even know it until it's too late. Good luck.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:11 | 4122538 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

Sadly, the severity of information disconnect is so great, the sheeple won't be able to relate the state of healthcare to what created the situation in the first place.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:34 | 4122610 CH1
CH1's picture

Don't worry. I'll remind them.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:23 | 4122583 skipjack
skipjack's picture

The only upside to that is that the numbnuts who take their kids with any sniffle or bitty sore throat to the doctor for antibiotics might be downgraded to a PA, who is fully capable of telling said idiotic parent to gve their kids fluids and keep them away from their peers for a day or two. Sheesh - far too many people are over-doctored as it is. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:20 | 4122765 czardas
czardas's picture

The vast majority of our problems are lifestyle-based - obesity, smoking, too much alcohol, drugs, bad food, no exercise.  Technology is starting to make an impact - reduced costs for testing, catching diseases before they happen, individualized drugs, etc but the key is lifestyle.  And yes, we knew folks who took their kids to the doctor weekly for fevers, sniffles, ear aches or "not feeling good". 

What's infuritating is that other options exist.  The "see your doctor via computer" program in New York has been an incredible success in reducing time and cost. The new "Watson" AI diagnosis will probably improve health care more than anything but chances are it will face massive bureacratic red tape.  Robotic surgery is advancing rapidly.  If the State would get out of the way, we could "make it work". 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:24 | 4122585 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

remain calm, valid points, as you know, treating coughs and colds is 99% of what family practice is about, and PA's and NP's can do that job, heck high school hicks in Nam did a good job on simple thru and thru gun shots of limbs.

we did not bother to wake up an MD for those we med evac'd until rounds in the AM well late AM ok after 12 noon.

where MD's skill and Art come in is the 1% that show up with a  life threatening disease, triage them with PA's and NP's and we both know not all will  be diagnosed quick enough..seems like you need a little luck even with a good MD.

In the end medicine we get is much like other areas of quality of life in progressive USSA, it's going to stink.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:10 | 4122731 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

exactly overmedicated. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:33 | 4122605 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Kenyan monkeyboy lying tyrant has destroyed the medical profession and the U.S. healthcare system replacing it with a grotesqur bureacracy favoring for profit hospitals where care is 5-10x mote expensive and greedy insurance companies who reduce coverage while jacking up rates and deductibled. This is the dumbing down of healthcsre to the loeest common denominator, aka socialized meficine. PAs and nurse practitioners are cheaper workers but if u think they provide the same care as a physuician who has on average over 12-14 years of schooling and training then you probably think Burger King is as good as Ruth Chris.  Younger adults, especially those who voted for monkeyboy, dont need to sweat it but i want to see their faceswhen their parents are denied the care they need. "We need to pass it to find out what`s in it."  

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:38 | 4122618 adr
adr's picture

So if I had a sinus infection and needed antibiotics, would you Mr. Doctor write me a prescription if I paid you $25?

Or would I have to wait three weeks as a new patient and then pay $250 for an appointment after waiting an hour an a half in your waiting room.

My appointment would last all of about five minutes, there wouldn't be anything that required any real skill to diagnose. I'd leave with a prescriprion for medicine that cost less than a dollar to produce. Yet my total bill for a simple infection and some pills made in China for pennies would probably be over $300.

But you'd say, "That's what insurance is for."



You have to go through a system for everything. Where the FUCK are the real doctors? Like the one I had 30 years ago that had an office down the street from my house that knew my parents and me. Who my mom could call at home and wouldn't charge us for a simple ear infection.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:53 | 4122678 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

That insurance layer has so much to do with what is wrong with healthcare. A parent's $15 dollar co-pay to take little suzy in to see the doctor creates an artificial opportunity cost decision. Our problem isn't the uninsured, our problem is that we ARE insured. Insurance companies don't provide a service, they siphon of money while increasing the cost of services provided, and do so at a rate of growth that compounds. Exponential curve, bitches.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:26 | 4122785 czardas
czardas's picture

No, the real problem is using insurance for everyday things. Your home insurance works because you don't use it for painting the house, repairing a window, adding a porch, installing a new heat pump or replacing carpets.  It is used ONLY for major problems.  My wife is a health care attorney and has said for years that folks should pay their own bill and carry insurance ONLY for the big stuff - surgery, cancer treatment, etc.  Failing that, we should be able to select insurance (forbidden by the administration) a la carte.  As a man I do not need mammogram services, abortion options or hormone treatments so why pay for them (we all know why - to cover the majority that can't/won't pay).

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:37 | 4122620 pods
pods's picture

Short answer, yes.

Every single doctor I have ever seen has sat and listened and while I talked.  When I hit a buzzword, they say "umm hmm" and mentally move down their flowchart until the proper prescription is reached.
I am sure that you are a very smart individual.

But you practice allopathic medicine.  Which is great for treating trauma and pathogen based illness.

But Amerika has an epidemic of chronic illness which no allopathic medicine will ever fix.  Yet we come up with BS to dazzle ourselves into thinking drug based therapies work, like "a chemical imbalance in your brain" and "it's genetic."

When in reality the chemical imbalance cannot be tested for, and the only genetic link to disease is that we tend to eat the same way as our parents, and our "health" began when our mother's were in the womb.

Google has helped me more about being healthy than all the doctor's I have ever seen.

And I develop the drugs that you prescribe, so I am not entirely talking out of my ass.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:14 | 4122738 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture are 1000% correct. Modern medicine (specificlly the drugs they develop) are routinely overpriced junk and rarely if ever cure anything.

People looking to medicine for a cure (except for the obvious) are in for a rude awakening.


1 pill becomes 2, 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 12......

I've seen it. Over and over again.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:50 | 4122854 Icewater Enema
Icewater Enema's picture

Pods you are right about the "flowchart" mentality but some of that is driven by self-preservation. Dr's don't want to experiment with their patients. They have accepted protocols to follow because 1) there are studies, scientific evidence that they work and 2) that evidence shields them, at least partially, from liability. And no one really ever addresses that liability, which is a huge driver of cost, both thru malpractice and defensive medicine. Obamacare won't dare change any of that.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:59 | 4123127 island
island's picture

Agree.   Allopathic Medicine has it's place - but Naturopathic Medicine and a focus on good habits and wellness goes a long way toward promoting overall health.

If I go to see a doctor and a drug is their first solution to something non-acute, I won't go back. 


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:43 | 4122639 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I'm going to take a slightly contrarian positions to yours. In doing so, to be clear, I'm not advocating for, in any way, Obama Care, rather questioning the pedestal on which you want to place yourself and your peers.

I'm willing to wager that something like 50% of the time invested in healthcare end up with a diagnosis that pretty much any parent with a couple of kids can make. But better than a parent, a reasonable computer program could do the trick. And the thing about that computer program... for things that fall outside of the "simple diagnosis", I trust the ability of the computer to churn through the massive amounts of available data a whole lot more than a doctor who spent a few years staying up past midnight, maybe 10 or 15 years ago. Even if he has maintained a passion for learning, beyond the work required to complete his degree, there is simply no way to stay ahead of the research.

If I were a doctor, my fear wouldn't be Obama Care nearly as much as it would be the possibility of being rendered useless overhead for much of what is required of me today. I think that this transformation will happen more quickly than people might think.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:09 | 4122708 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Speaking as someone intimately familiar with the subject that this doc speaks of, I can tell you that he is partially correct in that PAs and such will make the occasional mistake. But otherwise, they will do fine. Minute clinics are opening because (even in ERs) the VAST MAJORITY of cases presented are not what you see on TV. They are sprains, colds, rashes, etc. ERs are generally glorified clinics as you know this if you have ever been to one. 

The real problem is the medical system does not penalize abberant behavior. Modern medicine rarely cures anything chronic because it views things allopathically instead of holisitically. An the overpriced pills don't work for long.

All medicine does today is give people a pill so they can continue to eat like pigs and remain diabetic, for example.

It almost never cures chronic disease. 

There is no cure, ladies and gentlemen. ONLY PREVENTION.

I can hear the simpletons now screaming about how we all eventually get sick. True that......BUT NOT AT 20 FUCKING YEARS OLD. We are now seeing diseases once reserved exclusively for the aged in the young, and IT IS ENTIRELY PREVENTABLE.

So, the modern doc of today is doing nothing more than breaking big rocks into smaller ones, and then gluing the rock bac together. Except he is charging massive $$ and the patient is removed from paying, and no one is accountable. Insurance pays an the irresponsible play. 

Change that dynamic, and you will save the system. 

Until then, do not get sick my friends. Or at least do not bake illness into the cake of your life with your lifestyles of stress, inactivity, neglect, bad eating habits, booze/drugs, etc.

Try to take better care of your body than you do your lawn for starters.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:13 | 4122739 pods
pods's picture

Agree with everything but the "there is no cure" part.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:16 | 4122754 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

I meant medical cure, but agree.

I would say stress (specifically anger) is the #1 cause of all diseases. But diet is up there too.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:08 | 4123607 MSimon
MSimon's picture



I'd go higher but it might seem unseemly.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:59 | 4122691 fleur de lis
fleur de lis's picture

This is an insurance option that was on TV a while back. Everything should be looked at.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:10 | 4122732 Bangback
Bangback's picture

Yes.  I've been treated by NPs.  If you're basically healthy, its not a big deal.  Certainly they're qualified to write scripts for birth control pills (which obgyns use as a lever to force $300+ appointments on most women -- who don't complain because they're insured).

Go look on a doc recruiting website. Plenty of practices willing to pay docs $200-250K as a salaried employee. Don't cry to me about docs entitlement to 350K+.  Too bad too many got accustomed to it.

If you don't like Obamacare, work to propose and implement an alternative. But the status quo (giving the poor bills at 5x what my insurer pays, 20K/family for health insurance) is not acceptable.

In 10-15 years we'll be on single-payer.  If they opened up Medicare to 63 and 64 year olds at actual cost +20% people would be beating down the doors. Medicare is the future of American medicine.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:26 | 4122788 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

If Medicare is the future, and more doctors are refusing to take Medicare, how is this an improvement?

And how silly is it to view obamacare as the default position absent a "better" proposal. Not having obamacare IS a better proposal.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:18 | 4122756 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

The American people in the next 10-15 years are about to get fucked by Obamacare and they won't even know it until it's too late.

Most people already know it is too late. It is just the brainwashed Progressives who are in denial.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:26 | 4122786 Icewater Enema
Icewater Enema's picture

Right on Dr. Calm. And you'll probably also see the pharma companies try to push more of their drugs to over-the-counter status as people wait for or skip Dr. visits altogether or skip buying prescriptions not covered by high deductibles. As people try to self medicate more, those companies will try to capture more of the revenue from that demographic.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:42 | 4123074 joego1
joego1's picture

I went to the Doc got a NP gave me antibiotics that just about ate my liver was sick for 10 days thought I was dying. Would have better off not going in the first place. Then of course I get to the wait for the bill for being poisoned.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:58 | 4123360 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

remain calm is saying what my doc told me last visit also. The office is full of PAs, nurses, etc and other doctor substitutes who try their best but as rc says above, they ain't no doctor who has been through tons of arduous training and schooling.



Tue, 11/05/2013 - 14:48 | 4123553 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Voted? Bwaaahahahahahhahaha.



Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:56 | 4123801 Abaco
Abaco's picture

Depends on what I need.  If it is just a couple of stitches - yeah - don't need someone with 10 years schooling. So you are a pharmacist. If I have strep throat or an infection why can't I just have you tell me what I need? Why do I need to go pay a doctor, who doesn't have the training in pharmaceuticals first, and have him write a prescription for whatever he guesses is the right med.  Not to disparage your education but the regulations restricting our choices for obtaining health care are mostly bullshit designed to siphon off income for the benefit of the medical establishment.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:21 | 4122330 TMLutas
TMLutas's picture

As medical tourism, possibly. The problem is that the state medical licensing system is not built to take in the possibility of a randian strike. Doctors from abroad still have to find an accredited residency and pass it before they are licensed and those are the limited slots. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:57 | 4122470 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Health care and higher education MUST and WILL be subject to international competition one way or the other.  Think foreign-owned clinics and university branches on every street corner.

The longer it takes the poorer Americans will be in the meantime.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:31 | 4122375 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Stem cells, low cost clinics for screening high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease,  robotic assisted surgery,  better medical records technology, tort reform,..

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:46 | 4122422 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Ah yes, the "Hope" part.

Good news: your TV will soon have more OBamahope than ever!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:19 | 4122329 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

1/2 of all doctors are over 50?? Christ sakes. Didn't think of that did you Obama. Add that to the LONG list of oversights. Douche.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:25 | 4122589 onewayticket2
onewayticket2's picture

stands to reason.  

you can back out all under 25 - as they're not able to be Doogie Houser.

avg lifespan is 75 yrs.

~50 year window for doctors.

~half will be over 50, half under.

agree there's zero incentive to become a doctor so the point is still valid....the pipe will NOT be filled with the best and brightest.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:14 | 4122749 Bangback
Bangback's picture

Then how come med school admissions are still less than 20%?  Any job that pays 200K will get plenty of takers.  I don't need the best and brightest to give out birth control pills, wipe sniffles, etc.  I prefer someone knowledgable and empathic personally.

Medicine is going to turn into a profession for people who like to help people, rather than one where you strike it rich. Seems to work just fine in England, France, Germany, etc. There will be plenty of takers at 5x the median american salary. They will need to pay residents more -- the current model of 250K student loans isn't sustainable.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:47 | 4122426 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Don't worry, the AMA will keep the number of med schools from increasing so doctors can continue the racket.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:17 | 4122324 TMLutas
TMLutas's picture

If a medical residency program graduates too many residents, it loses certification by its accrediting body. That's the control mechanism, nothing to do with medical school. Non-accredited residencies are looked at dimly by the state medical licensing bureaucracy. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:33 | 4122365 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Exactly. Just like oil refineries. Restrict supply and raise prices. Treat the moneymen first with their fix before you get to the patient.

FUCK doctors! And while we're at it, Fuck insurance! And hospitals!

It's all a fucking racket spearheaded by the Shalom Steinmans.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:01 | 4122466 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Not only do they restrict supply, they've long known what the outcome would be once O'bummercare was implemented. I was told by HR at our annual benefits meeting way back in Aug 2010, that if you didn't have a primary physician by 2014, you wouldn't be able to get one.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:12 | 4122539 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

tick tock

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:05 | 4122498 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Control of resources and markets has always been the goal of them that seek cartels.

As example, Bill Gates' real 'genius' was his knowledge that if one controls a needed item (software/operating system) then you've got 'em by the balls.  Any wonder then that The Gates Foundation invests in Monsanto whose implicit goal is to make all humanity pay them a royalty for their patented seeds?  Monsanto, et al, are in the business of privatizing our collective human inheritance:  the very life sustaining crops we eat.

The same with doctors and medicine aka ObummerCare.  Create dependence.

This is war.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:13 | 4122546 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

It didn't start with Obamacare though.  The cartel is also known as the AMA.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:32 | 4122377 yogibear
yogibear's picture

H1Bs trained in 6 months. One year residency in Bangalore ready to seve you at your local ChinaMart store.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:53 | 4122452 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

I got my law degree from Costco....

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:57 | 4123812 Abaco
Abaco's picture

Which makes you more qualified to give legal advice than most of the chimps charging to pratice law.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:33 | 4122602 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Naah, just make Obamacare service a prerequisite for licensure.  Also, H1-b visas for medical personnel, bring 100k or more Indians in for primary care at $10/hr..

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:24 | 4122348 sgorem
sgorem's picture

Less doctors, but moar MOARTICIANS will be the cure.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:28 | 4122363 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

"You didn't obtain that Haiti-level substandard medical care..."

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:33 | 4122601 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

Costa Rica anyone?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:17 | 4122965 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture



oh yeah, FUCK OBOZO

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 15:12 | 4123624 IdiocracyIsAlre...
IdiocracyIsAlreadyHere's picture

Exactly.  I don't know how it reached a point where "insurance" is used for every single medical issue no matter how minor.  If this leads to more doctors going to straight cash for routine care, good. 

And fighting socialism starts with fighting it at the top - corporate welfare, particularly to big-Ag, big-Pharma, big-MIC, and big-FIRE.  It does not begin with SNAP cards.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:08 | 4122277 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I guess the planned retirement was too complicated a calculation for the AMA to perform....

This was obvious to all except the AMA 10-20 years ago.  But no we must keep the numbers down, to keep the salaries up.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:11 | 4122292 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Oh please. The AMA warned us eight years ago that the trend of ex-country medical students was changing. Instead of staying in the US and practicing medicine many of them are now returning to their home countries or choosing to practice elsewhere. How many qualified medical students do you think the US educational system is producng each year?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:16 | 4122310 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



But no we must keep the numbers down, to keep the salaries up.


I don't have a problem with my doctor making fact....I want him to feel highly motivated when it comes to treating me.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:22 | 4122337 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

the beatings will continue until all doctors are highly motivated

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:33 | 4122380 g'kar
g'kar's picture

FEMA camps: Federal Emergency Medical Acadamies

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:39 | 4122393 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Rumors of Dr. Mengele's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:04 | 4122417 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Word is they changed his name to Dr. Green...just google it.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:25 | 4122345 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Just tell the Dr. to bend over and take his reamin and be done with it.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:33 | 4122361 Che Guevara is Dead
Che Guevara is Dead's picture

Although I'm not a doctor, I did marry someone who became a primary care physician.

Fuck the AMA.

That Chicago-based group was taken over by a bunch of non-practicing socialists years ago. They fully supported Obamacare in opposition to their own membership which is why Dr. Wife tore up her AMA membership card and put it in their post-paid renewal request envelope. I then tried attaching it to one of our housecats but it wouldn't fit through the mail slot.

The whole push now in health care isn't replacing with foreigners. That's been tried for the past 15 years and all that happens is that after the foreign doctors finish their residencies they follow the money and become specialists. That's the schtick for one of the few remaining private practices in our area. They bring over J-1s, work them as slaves for a few years until they get their residency and qualifications, then they quit and on to setting up a lucrative derm practice in the suburbs shooting old hag faces with botox.

No, the biggest threat to PCP salaries is nurse practitioners. In our area they make a quarter of what PCPs do yet do half the work (see 2 patients every hour instead of the 4 expected for PCPs). Dr. Wife's hospital is in full gear replacing PCPs with NPs. That's cool if you have a sore throat or a sinus infection. Anything more serious though and you're SOL.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:47 | 4122423 duo
duo's picture

that's why Obamacare is going to kill off the specialties.  Heart surgery, only for the 0.1%.  Oncology, the same thing.

M.D.s will be forced (maybe at gunpoint) into giving 350 lb baby-mamas their insulin, regardless of their "specialty".

Think Dr. Zhivago:  "The doctors's service to the revolution is much appreciated".

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:05 | 4122499 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

Vascetomy is the answer. What is the question?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:40 | 4122629 Che Guevara is Dead
Che Guevara is Dead's picture

I'll take "Sterilizing White Trash" for 200, Alex.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:38 | 4122394 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Once Bernanke, Yellen and the  rest of the 12 Fed stooges crash the US dollar nobody will want to stay in the US. Anyone with a decent profession will leave to a financially stable country.

How many of your best and brightest want to live in Zimbabwe?

Yellen and her 12 Fed stooges are setting the US up for a long downturn. Go ahead and crash the US dollar and reap the punishment.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:13 | 4123174 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

What you think the Med schools don't follow the AMA?  What you think there is a free market in medical school and their admissions?  The AMA has to be viewed as a major cause for the medical industry being the pampered, technology Luddite mess it presently finds itself.

  • If they had policed themselves 30 years ago, they would be less regulated.
  • If they had trained DRs not to be so insecure about technology, they would not be so far behind the eight ball now.
  • And don't even get me started about their arrogance.

The only good thing about DRs is the new generation.  The old fart can fuck off and die for all I care including the farts that spend their days here on ZH bitching about their lot in life


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:07 | 4122278 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Code Blue.....tap this thing on? anyone out there?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:34 | 4122604 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Just a little pinprick....

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:07 | 4122279 RSloane
RSloane's picture

I believe a bill forcing doctors to provide health care for Medicaid and Medicare patients, even if they have several of those patients already, is being discussed. Two docs in my doc's small private healthcare group are retiring. One is going to retire in Peru and offer medical services there. Sad times.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:16 | 4122320 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Good morning Sloan. There has been legislation proposed in the house to force doctors into the program. They just can't accept the fact tha Zero care might be bad policy to begin with. Our local hospital has opted out of the whole program altogether.It's a royal mess.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:25 | 4122342 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Good morning Doc. Same here. Our hospital is also opting out. I don't understand why people can't see what a disaster this is.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:06 | 4122503 Dr. G
Dr. G's picture

In Massachusetts, they took away the doctor's choice.  In order to get your medical license there, you must accept Medicare/Medicaid.  The federal governent will do the same thing when the time arises.  Unfortunately, there is a tremendous shortage. Especially some surgeons.  The average age of General Surgeons is 52 and most retire by 55-60 in this country after taking call and being awakened at night through their entire career.  Even more importantly, most ER's rely on General Surgeons to take care of the most severly injured patients (auto accidents and such) and most hospitals allow you to stop taking ER call after you've been in practice for 25 years (approx 55 years old). So there literally will be no person to help you in the middle of the night.  To train a General Surgeon takes at least 9 years after college.  The lead time is too long even if we set about to correct the problem now. It's just sad.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:32 | 4122344 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture


lets force doctors who dont want to be involved to treat people who were forced to buy health insurance they didnt want


let me be perfectly clear

if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor, even if he quits to become an automechanic

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:27 | 4122354 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Lets just give it the royal flush treatment then.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:42 | 4122407 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Many of the young and bright youth I talk with would have no problem leaving the US.

Who want's to live in a declining country.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:06 | 4122282 Blue Dog
Blue Dog's picture

It's going to be a huge disaster but that's what obamacare was designed to be. It's going to implode the economy. Between much higher insurance rates and the elimination of many full time jobs. Obama is a tool of the globalists. They want to create a disaster big enough to create a one world government.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:22 | 4122336 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:07 | 4122283 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

all part of the plan. not like we didn't know this would happen.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:38 | 4122398 TheFreeLance
TheFreeLance's picture

Zackly. It is a feature, not a bug. All designed to engineer a "market failure" in the supply of MDs, allowing government to step in and run the thing end to end. The central planners have long complained that the training of MDs takes too long and costs too much and creates a cohort expecting to earn $200K plus per year doing frivilous specialties.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:07 | 4122284 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

Then expect even higher premiums in 2015 as the government has to bailout the insurance companies due to the lack of healthy people signing up for Obamacare.

The Democrats should have read the bill before voting for it.  Obamacare is an economic disaster.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:41 | 4122386 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture

Yeah, take a look at how much UNH is suffering. Hmmm, that can't be right. Rush, what's going on here?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:10 | 4122291 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

Quite frankly, BS. 

In my state the medical industrial complex is so overbuilt its ridiculous --- gotta put all those profits earned by the "non-profits" somewhere, right? And there's only so much that can go into salaries before the peasantry shows up at the gates. 

We have hospitals closing now due to empty beds. (which hasn't prevented the major "non-profit" corp breaking ground for a new wing as they lay off half the workforce. 

Sheer insanity. Much like the housing bubble just before it burst......

so BS on this one. There's more than enough just doesn't fit the narrative of the "oh poor me" medical industry at the moment. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:25 | 4122343 Harry Dong
Harry Dong's picture

Same here. The only thing lacking in our backwoods hospital is the chandeliers and marble flooring. Oh wait, that IS in the new wing. Funny how the 'lack of services' is just now getting seen by the upper class. Damn poor people expectin' medical care too. What's the world coming too?


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:08 | 4122512 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

Data please.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:44 | 4122643 adr
adr's picture

Come to Ohio and take a tour of a hospital.

Plasma TVs everywhere, lobbies that make the Plaza hotel look like a one star backwoods motel, gift shops that look like a Hallmark store, and full service coffee shops bigger than Starbucks.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:12 | 4122293 J Pancreas
J Pancreas's picture

I'll just consult my neighborhood shaman for any health related inquiries. They're still used in Africa and they seem to be alright..

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:48 | 4122425 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Alternatives. But how about this one. LIVE for today. This bullshit that .gov and .church shovels down your throat is just that.

Work you ass off till you're 70, jump through all of OUR hoops, obey, be nice and correct, and we will take care of you.


Live for today America, live for yourself. There is no guarantee for tomorrow. You make it into retirement and at 71 you're struck with something. The fuckshit doctors are not looking at your ailment, they are focused on draining your wallet. You'll be eating cat food at 73 and wishing you were dead because no one is there as 'promised'.


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 13:09 | 4123164 Serfs_Up
Serfs_Up's picture

Friskies Buffet for everyone Comrads!!!

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:13 | 4122299 Abby Normal
Abby Normal's picture
My girlfriend's insurance was cancelled and we're racing around working on multiple fronts trying to get her new medical care.  It's impossible to get any new insurance with a pre-existing condition before Jan 1 and she can't, even staying with Blue Cross Blue Shield, transfer any of her old medical records (thanks HIPPA…).   But, she'll only have 10 days from Jan. 1 to reconstruct her 6 years of medical tests, records and history with 8 doctors that she's seen as by Jan 10 she'll have to order the specialty IV she gets - or she dies.   SO, we're trying to get her current doctors to prescribe as much medicine as possible (like the article says, her current doctors say they likely won't accept the new plans anytime soon as they have no information on them yet). Waiting until Jan 1 (along with millions of other folks kicked off plans…) to start a whole new sets of visits to new docs is unlikely to work as she'll have to start getting appointments at the bottom and then get appointments to specialists - who then will have to convince insurance company to prescribe expensive IV medicine - which there is also no guarantee of under new plans - all by Jan 10th….   It's the old  Classic Catch 22 Clusterfuck.  (there's more problems, but who has the time?)   With almost no information from anyone on the new plans,  we're also looking at somehow trying to buy the drugs directly or traveling to Mexico or Thailand  soon for care until she can find care here - but if she can't get IV treatment by late Jan, her muscular dystrophy will paralyze all her muscles and she'll suffocate to death. Don't get sick anytime soon or wait until Jan. to see a doctor as they will be swamped with tons of new, really sick patients.
Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:26 | 4122318 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture





I guess we know what's in that damn bill now. Maybe Nancy Pelosi will spot you....I heard she really cares about people.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:19 | 4122325 RSloane
RSloane's picture

God I'm so sorry Abby. What a horrible situation for both you and your girlfriend. I wish you both a way out of this nightmare and she gets the care she needs.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:29 | 4122792 Abby Normal
Abby Normal's picture

Thanks,  For so many, ACA seems just a way to score political points, but for some, it's a real life and death nightmare.  And, there's people far worse least we have the energy to try to figure out other solutions...what about those too sick to do all this?


Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:28 | 4123016 Jena
Jena's picture

What a horrible situation.

I hate to say this but I think that if the really sick who get lost are noticed and mentioned at all, it will be to score points against the 'other' team.  

There is no goal to provide better care in the ACA, just a means of controlling the masses one way or another.

Best of luck to you both and everyone else who is potentially going to be hurt by the machinations of this mess.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:24 | 4122346 TMLutas
TMLutas's picture

1. She has a right to her own records. If she's denied her own records, call the state attorney general's office immediately. They have the right to pull business licenses and nobody wants to fool around with that. That gets you the full file on office visit one with any new doctor. 

2. Pay cash and get a visit with your primary care doctor, prenegotiating that he's going to write enough prescriptions to cover her through whatever it's going to take. That's your cheapest way out if your insurance is already expired. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 11:26 | 4122783 Abby Normal
Abby Normal's picture

Yes, but the records are in two states and if you can get them eventually, who do we give them to?  Also the new docs will want their own paper trail unless they trust other doctors assesments/tests and implicitly then assume that liability....that's a lot of potential downside when you're dealing with a rare form and treatement of MD.  


We we hoping to get BCBS to just skip the gateway docs based on the records THEY hold....that might speed things up. "The more people we talked to, the less anyone knows."  Excerpt from my new book to be writtten "2014" - the sequel to Orwell's "1984"

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:31 | 4123032 Jena
Jena's picture

The cash payment with your primary doc is a good thought with the negotiation of enough meds to last you through an extended period of time.  S/he will certainly understand your situation and ought to be willing to work with you.

Can't hurt to try it.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:31 | 4122368 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Talk about unsustainable, you ever think about gettin a pair of them store bought teeth?

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 10:01 | 4122479 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture


Good ideas about getting the records yourself and trying to do a cash and carry deal.  The second thing I'd do is to go to the press.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 12:32 | 4123035 joego1
joego1's picture

I recommend Bumrungrad hospital in Tailand. State of the art and reasonable prices for treatments.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 16:00 | 4123832 Abaco
Abaco's picture

While you are raing around stop for a minute and contemplate the difference between insurance and medical care.

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:16 | 4122306 sharky2003
sharky2003's picture

I'm fortunate enough that I don't have to deal with Obamacare for now (until my employer decides to drop me onto it) but that hasn't stopped me from noticing changes in my plan. New for this year...there's not only in-network and out-of-network, but now also a preferred network. The preferred network is the cheapest tier for me costwise but the doctors on that list all have foreign names and I have serious doubts about the fluency of their English. I figure they are the crummiest doctors, willing to accept any measly reimbursement from the insurance company. The good doctors won't accept insurance anymore in a few years is my guess. 

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 09:39 | 4122390 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

"The good doctors won't accept insurance anymore in a few years is my guess."


Please god, let that be the case.

And let there be posted price lists as well.  

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!