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Bitcoin Spikes To Record High At $270
The last month has seen the USD price of Bitcoins double from $130 to $270 as a combination of wider acceptance (in China and even ebay/Paypal 'watching') and concerns over ongoing global money printing (delayed taper) have sent the cryptocurrency to new record highs. With most 'markets' now manipulated or repressed by government mandate, one wonders whether Bitcoin represents the last bastion of free market expression for concern at the fiat status quo? Or is it already 'broken'?
Charts: Bitcoincharts.com
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All that Tesla stock they sold has to go somewhere.
It goes up, it corrects, it goes up again...
It's a new currency - that's what we should expect!
Maybe it's great, maybe it's not. The fact is, I just don't understand it, so I'm staying away.
The working conditions for Bitcoins are horrid. You watch them go down into that mine....but you never see them come back up.
As Bit Coin is divisible up to 8 decimal places, it is obvious the software was designed with the thought it mind that at some time each coin could be worth a considerable sum. So large a sum that it would be necessary to be divided considerably, in order to allow for typical business transactions.
If we were to assume the eighth decimal place was a penny then each Bit Coin would have a value of $1mil.
What can you buy for a penny?
If we were to assume the eighth decimal place was a dollar then each Bit Coin would have a value of $100mil (If my math is correct).
This indicates that many here are right about the future price/value of gold.
so i convert my phyz into bitcoins and retire to chile. when i get there i redeem either bitcoins or gold? comments on how this works. thanks
Bitcoin is one case where I will merrily BTFATH knowing this has a long, long ways to run. The coming bail-ins should send Bitcoin to well over $500 and bring many more people over to our cause.
There are only around 11,000,000 BTC currently in circulation and many of them already lost forever. If you own 1 BTC, you own a lot of BTC.
It must be in the back of your mind, that somehow...someway, central banks will kill bitcoins - or tax the shit out of it. Just like gold/silver, there is NO WAY that central banks will allow an asset to undermine CONFIDENCE in currency!
Yes, I do expect treason warrants for those creating it but note that most of those in charge seem to have Russian names...untouchable legally by the Treasury. They seem smart enough that if someone is arrested or confiscated, things are so fragmented that BTC lives on...may be the beginning of a Matrix like realization for many as fiat currencies have already been destroyed by the Central banks.
You don't get it. There's nothing "they" can do about Bitcoin. Besides sitting back and bearing witness to their own destruction.
I think there are plenty of things that could drop Bitcoin. What is stopping the creation of a unique competing digital currency (one that the Fed or the world bank endorse?). What is stopping the creation of a heavy tax placed on capital gains. Yes....it is a digital currency - but it makes it that much easier to track you down.
@fonestar, I own 1 Bitcoin and $500 is my target where I will trade it in for silver eagles. I bought the Bitcoin for $40. Let's say spot price is around $25, that's 20 silver eagles, which translates to $2 per coin. Not bad.
My point is, don't go all in on Bitcoin but buy 1 or 2. If it goes in the shitter, so what? It wasn't a big investment. But we all know that the Fed won't taper so you can be pretty sure that Bitcoin is going up. When you hit your price target, trade it in for some phyzz.
Come on...it's fun!
https://localbitcoins.com/country/CL
thanks
Also, due to the eventual deflationary nature of Bitcoin, where forgotten passwords means money is forever lost, it may well be that the 8th decimal place is eventually worth a dollar in today's money.
The client uses 8 decimal places for efficiency sake. It's not a limitation of bitcoin. When people need more headroom it will be extended further out.
"By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's" Paul Krugman
Five-hundred years from now, the rise of the internet and the crypto-currencies will be viewed as one and the same event.
Did Kurgman really say that? Can you provide a source?
If you can provide me the source I will signup at NYT and post that quote in the comment section of every single article he pens. You should read the comment section he gets, people think the man is a god. It makes you realize just how far gone the US is.
Wish granted:
"Why most economists' predictions are wrong."
By Paul Krugman
The Red Herring, June 1998
http://web.archive.org/web/19980610100009/www.redherring.com/mag/issue55/economics.html
A bitcoin rarity-equivalent to 1 ounce of gold still costs less than a dollar. Even if you think it will probably go nowhere, what if it goes somewhere? Why not drop a fiver on the currency?
Have you heard the rumor that the Saudi's will trade invisable coins (bitcoin) for oil???
hahahahahaha
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nobody claims that stateless little Bitcoin sprouted full-grown right into the midst of well entrenched monetary systems. But someday the people who will replace the current Saudi dictatorship will accept BTC for Oil.
Just wait until "retired" doctors start accepting Bitcoin to hide their new home-based practices.
Brilliant +1. Where there's a will there's a way...
Quick, someone call the Bitcoin central bank to print more BTCs!!!
It is mathematically impossible to do so.
The problem is, it's not impossible for forty other also-rans to set up their own "virtual currencies" and dilute the need for Bitcoin.
See, for example, Litecoin, which has as its only advantages that (1) it's harder to create special-purpose hardware to "mine" for Litecoins, and (2) HURR DURR EVERYBUDDY CAN USE THEIR PC TO MINE LITECOINZ AND BECUM RICH LIKE THE EARLY BITCOIN PEOPLE DID!!!!!
So, the whole "Bitcoin to the Moon!" meme is based on a fundamental fallacy. The supply of Bitcoin is finite, but the supply of "virtual currencies" to satisfy the demand of "it's not fiat money" is infinite.
Note: and I write this as someone who likes the idea of getting away from fiat and getting away from government control of money and "the money supply".
I don't understand this logic. One of Bitcoin's main selling points is that it can never hyperinflate. If your argument against Bitcoin is "it has competitors that CAN hyperinflate", why would anyone choose the inflator over the deflator? Furthermore, if someone is OK with an inflating cryptocurrency, wouldn't they already be perfectly content with their inflating fiat currency?
Your logic is no different than saying that gold will never succeed because it has countless fiat competitors.
If it was so easy to copy a business model, there would be thousands of another Googles and Brin/Page would have never become that rich.
Scrypt has weakness, since it does not allow leverage over GPUs by hardware hashing machines and makes it therefore more vulnerable against a 51% attack.
That's the point I make below: its easier to copy Bitcoin's code than Apple and Google's patent portfolio...
Yep, AAPL, GOOG, FB (heck, XAU, XAG) value could go up, up and away to infinity and beyond, but you can't just replicate them like that; OTOH, though you can't inflate BTC, you can easily replicate it infinitely.
So why would eBay, or anyone else (Google, FB...), rather choose to rely on an external unregulated, volatile as ether currency, than on its own closely controlled, stable coin, like Amazon?
For any competitor to take a serious bite out of BTC, it needs to be technically substantially better - because BTC has momentum and market.
I'm absolutely not opposed to a new crypto thats technically far superior to BTC - in fact I'm hoping to see it.
If there is a technically superior crypto, then hitting any of the following points would give it real competitive edge;
1) Non locked to the internet, ie could be transmitted via radio - includes hardware to relay transactions.
2) Not subject to mining pool collaboration, ie internal control to ensure that all mining is solo, and coins instantly released.
3) Blockchain 'fold ups', ie to prevent blockchains from becoming too long some method of compression, or consolidation of old data.
There's a few things that would really give a new crypto an instant bid.
This is totally wrong. Acceptance is the 1. criteria. If the government came out with computer-freedom-coin and said you can pay taxes with it oh and they had a few big banks on board I think it would run past bit coin in a hurry. Or the government could make a special virtuial coin like anti-terrorist-coin each virtual coin being unique and non hyper inflatable. Roll out the other variants.
You could be a collector and have 5 bit coins, a few computer-freedom-coins for general things like taxes and parking fines, you could proudly display your anti-terrorist-coin that might have a limited issuance of 1000 only really "rare". Interesting numestic value on virtual coins. *smile*
1. There's nothing stopping you from doing this with bitcoin. They already have packet radio and bitcoin is nothing but data.
2. I'm not really sure why you would want to do this. It seems impractical. What's the difference between an individual runnning 10 computers and 2 friends each running 5?
3. Bitcoin already has this feature. You only need to keep track of unspent coins.
The problem with Bitcoin and every other digital currency is that they are not money, they are "digital notes".
The most important requirement of "MONEY' is that it have inherent value craved by humans.
So here is a way to illustrate my point for "digital money".
You must be familiar with the movie "Sleeper" starting Woody Allen and the "Orgasmatron".
The new digital money is called the "Orgasmacoin".
An Orgamastron that can only be operted by Orgasmacoins is needed.
One Orgasmacoin (digitally encrypted) inserted into the Orgasmatron gets you one orgasm.
So there you have it: real digital money.
Once again a failure to understand money. The reasons why we want money, its demand, is based on its monetary properties; divisible, fungible, portable, recognizable, limited supply, store of value. In the case of BTC it adds two additional features, public ledger and remote payment.
Those are the 'inherent values craved by humans' - these are the things that we want from money. You are stuck in a false paradigm, a failure to understand what money really is - a medium of exchange.
One of the primary reasons for golds usefulness as money, is due to its relative uslessness for anything else. That means its flow to stock ratio is very low (store of value). Gold is not valued because 'its shiny' - its valued because it has the properties of money. If gold were as black as coal, but retained all of its other properties - its value as money would be unchanged. Its total value might decline slightly, because demand for jewelery would fall, but I doubt the price would change very much.
David Icke may be "right" ... this is a virtual reality we live. Even money is now virtual.
Gold is real money.
Gold is real money.
Of course gold is real money, but how does that mean we must hate and kill anything els?
That's primate logic.
You are right and I don't "hate" bitcoin - I, personally, have a hard time embracing a virtual currency as I cannot see or hold it. I am in IT and all it takes is a tyrannical law dictating that all p2p communications be blocked and whoosh goes bitcoin.
If bitcoin is to be part of a truly free market basket of currencies where Gold and SIlver have a say then I am for it.
I don't want to see a pump and dump scheme with bitcoin, it will kill other ideas that may come along in the future.
...and we're back to cat & mouse.
You'd progressively have to take down more and more of the web until there's fuck all left.
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/five-online-solutions-to-beat-torrent-connection-blocking/
You wouldn't lose your bitcoins just access to them. I know that sounds bad but you still have them. I would think there would always be a way to access them. Realistically they could shut down access to our current currency also. The scale of a p2p shutdown would indicate much more concern. I'm not trying to argue but the bitcoin itself is secure it's the delivery methods that are vulnerable.
We would just use radio networks, in the worst case.
Nah, because the anti-BTC brigade would then claim that all electricity would be immediately cut.
For bitcoin to be deflationary, it means there must be bagholders. If you look around and don't see any bagholders, then...
I work in IT too and that's why I believe p2p will outlive legacy government deployments and their laws.
In light of the ugly side of peer to peer, i expect it to be banned to stop child porn, drug transactioms, etc.....all for our own good....
"... does that mean we must hate and kill anything els?"
No we must just understand what "MONEY" is.
Bitcoin is NOT MONEY!
Please see my post about the "Orgasmacoin"
Money is a virtual concept that exists in the minds of people - basically it is a contract between an individual and a society to perform some work in exchange for the money
"Money is ... a contract between an individual and a society to perform some work in exchange for the money"
I don't think so. No one has to accept gold for a product or a service. If I accept gold for, say, engineering plans, a farmer may not want to sell me corn for the gold. It's not a contract.
The "beauty of money, a human discovery" is that there are "things" that humans want to exchange for their work or possesions freely.
For example, during WWII, in prison camps cigarets were used as money. Because it was craved by practically all prisoners. Pearls, salt, dimonds, cows ... have been used at certain times in human history.
Money has to be craved and once it is accepted the transaction is completed with no third party risk.
It will go much, much higher. This is just the beginning. But we're probably getting near the top for this year.
The yuan order book is like a tsunami. I'll lighten up at 295 USD on bitstamp.
Hah! I'll be buying MORE at 295 !
But hey, look on the bright side: US Dollar has breached it's all time lows and resumed it's three year long collapse.
Since "Bitcoin is Broken", it's only natural it will go to the moon.
Did you READ the paper?
It says: at least 2/3rds of the participating nodes have to be honest to protect against our attack.
So, if 2/3 of people in the business don't want to kill the business, the attack can't work. Not the worst odds.
Have you ever met any of the professional BTC people?
Moreover, the attack (miner collusion) has already been discussed as have a number of responses.
I actually have met a "professional" BTC person.
He was a slimy con artist to the core of his soul.
For only 5 grand I would have been rich he teld me.
The USG can easily afford to shut down bitcoin just by overpowering the network. Wouldn't even cost them a billion dollars.
Cost: http://coinometrics.com/bitcoin/brix
Hash rate of the bitcoin network grew over one year 100-fold. How long will it take to get tens of thousand ASIC miners delivered, set up and operated? Not impossible, but it would be a race against time costing much more money than the hardware cost today.
...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/11/06/bitcoin-is-not-broken/
Bitcoin is not broken
Even a successful 51% attack on bitcoin allows the attacker much less power than any fiat controller has by default. And then the network ignores the attacker. Problem solved.
Cool beans! I wish every ZHer who holds BC the best luck. This could still get quite interesting ...
just another manipulated market
And you know this how?
Because you hate everything 'not gold' and this seems like a good slam?
Gold may be the most vigorously manipulated market of them all.
I would argue that bitcoin is likely the least manipulated currency on the planet at the moment, and possibly in history.
Remember bitcoin "printing" is 100% deterministic and deflationary by design. So you can't manipulate via the mining part of the supply side.
On the market side, while much is made of bitcoin's anonymity, the reality is that every single bitcoin transaction is in a ledger (the blockchain) and can be looked at and examined by any one at any time. Anyone flooding the market with bitcoin -- which would have to have been saved from prior purchases or mining -- can be spotted via transactions on the blockchain. It's how we know what the FBI's silk road account is, for example.
Any claims of manipulation will need to reach a very high standard of evidence.
Now, there is a bitcoin-related manipulation taking place -- anywhere bitcoin is touching the fiat system, banks and governments are working diligently to break the circuit: terminating bank accounts, raids, regulatory shutdowns, etc. If anything this is just more evidence of bitcoin's independence.
Go have a beer on bitcoin...
http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/05/now-you-can-buy-beer-with-bitcoin-in-beijing/
Bitcoin is not manipulated? Puhhhleeasae!!!!!! And, eventually, bitcoin has to be converted back into one of the crooked, broken currencies anyway. For now, its just a tax evasion mechanism (and I am not at all against that!)
@redd-green
Not really...there are more and more online bullion sites that are accepting bitcoin in exchange for real gold and silver.
amagimetals.com
coinabul.com
Many others BTC--->Au/Ag
"And, eventually, bitcoin has to be converted back into one of the crooked, broken currencies anyway."
That's like, in 1990, saying that email must be printed out anyway.
Wake me when hookers accept bitcoin. (and coke dealers)
Good morning?: http://www.dailydot.com/business/british-escort-service-accepting-bitcoins/
LOL
uhm... I know it doesn't work anymore... but ever heard of the silk road?
.
I prefer a more stable cryptocurrency. These wild swings in price are signs that the speculators are in full control and what goes up will come down.
http://litecoin.org is stable, not as volatile, and preferred by God.
But sadly a Cornell professor has discovered a fatal flaw in all cryptocurrencies, exercise caution.
http://hackingdistributed.com/2013/11/04/bitcoin-is-broken/
Over.
That paper you refer to is based on a theoretical, and can be easily counteracted.
References
http://fieryspinningsword.com/2013/11/06/hashrate-amplification-attacks/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=325824.0
Listen son, I wasn't born yesterday. It didn't properly account for human nature.
What's the core discovery here?
We're the first to discover that the Bitcoin protocol is not incentive-compatible. The protocol can be gamed by people with selfish interests. And once the system veers away from the happy mode where everyone is honest, there is no force that opposes the growth of really large pools that command control of the currency.
Over.
I wasn't born yesterday either.
Re-post from above:
Did you READ the paper?
It says: at least 2/3rds of the participating nodes have to be honest to protect against our attack.
So, if 2/3 of people in the business don't want to kill the business, the attack can't work. Not the worst odds.
Have you ever met any of the professional BTC people?
Moreover, the attack (miner collusion) has already been discussed as have a number of responses.
It's not killing the business CH1. It's maximizing utility in your(miners) favor.
As the mining community approaches the peak creation limit (23 million coin as I remember), their $50,000 dollar mining computers will become less and less profitable.
All it takes, the hack itself, is hiding discovery from other miners and colluding with a small group to do the same. They have to pay for those mining rigs somehow. Anyway, it will spread like cancer and the small group will become a very big group.
It's basic human nature in a capitalistic society. What, you expect them to mine for free and you know, we're the Chosen Miners?
Over.
IDNDVY.
What, you expect them to mine for free and you know, we're the Chosen Miners?
Your ignorance is astounding. Miners are PAID for mining. You lack even an elementary understanding of BTC, and yet are posting wildly as if you knew something.
You seem not to understand the basics of diminishing returns and basic human nature. You must be fully invested in BTC and are panicking because the ZHeeple won't follow your vague misleading words. lol. You need some spin classes. So sorry for you.
The argument that you are trying to present is: "Humans(miners) are not greedy when it comes to BTC's". And that's ignorant in a grand way.
Over.
He didn't read the paper. Didn't understand the topic. This is the same guy that also couldnt figure out that you can, in fact, buy a five dollar pack of socks with a theoretical $15,000 bitcoin.
Just post FUD and fallacies without any actual research, its eeeeeasy!
over and out
It's easy to see. Wall St hedge funds are mega invested in Bitcoin. Goldman Sachs too.
http://litecoin.org is for honest people trying to do the right thing, Bitcoin is controlled by the Wall St manipulators gaming all newcomers and stealing money from the little people.
Bitcoins implementation of the protocol is obsolete, Litecoin is cutting edge.
Over.
Haha, a Litecoin troll!
You go, Bingofuel! I moved on from BTC to LTC, and need more recognition for my digital silver!
Ahhh so now I get it. You're not anti-crypto currency, you're butthurt because BTC is doing better than LTC?
At least now there's a little bit of honesty on why you're posting FUD on BTC.
Actually Bitwad, if you followed along you'd know that Bingo Fuel doesn't give a flying fuck about your digital currency.
In fact Bingo Fuel thinks it's the beginning of the end and he's surprised that ZH would endorse this shit as it allows for tighter controls when put in .gov hands. And believe, it will end up in .gov hands if it's not already. WHO IS BITCOIN?
How come I only see you around on Bitcoin threads? How much do they pay you, Bitwad?
Over.
There's a problem with LiteCoin/LTC.
The whole LTC thing is fairly obvious, its an attempt to prevent new mining technology from participating. In computing, we call this the "walled garden" approach. That strategy hasn't worked out so well for other people who have tried it. Even Apple, who uses the biggest walled garden of them all - in the form of "captive computing" offered by their various i-devices, is seeing declines in revenue/usage compared to their first push into the mobile space.
For reference:
BTC supports - CPU, GPU, FPGA, ASIC, < Insert New Tech Here >
LTC supports - CPU, GPU, FGPA*, < Insert wall with barbed wire on top >
*FPGA and ASIC implementations are more expensive to create for Scrypt than for SHA-256 as used by Bitcoin, according to the wikipedia article. So, you could make the argument that they are economically unfeasible in LTC's current valuation. Also, every article/post I see about LTC is how proud they are about blocking out ASICs, so I doubt we'll see it occur.
When I look at Litecoin, beyond the obvious scaling problems the reduced time between confirmations produces, I see a closed-end technology that doesn't embrace the latest advances, supposedly to "save" everyone who won't be buying new technology.
You might as well make a computer that only accepts BASIC programs and nothing else, or some other contrived notion - like cassette tapes or 8 Inch floppies - just because you don't want to go to SSDs and SATA drives.
This is a mindset that makes no sense at all, which makes me wonder what they'll do when ASICs get bumped down in price, because a next-generation technology is released, becoming the new standard in securing the Bitcoin network.
So the question remains about LTC:
A.) Will they even be around at that point?
B.) Will they ditch their self-professed creed of not embracing ASIC and decide the next 'new' technology is the new boundary for the "garden wall"?
Given the nature of their traded value, on slim volumes and usually exhibiting the characteristics of a penny stock, I wonder if they'll make it at all when the next generation of tech hits.
Just two questions? Honesty counts. How many mining rigs do you have? How deep into it are you bro, in terms of USD's?
Or do you expect me to believe that you're Joe 6Pack?
Over.
Is Bingo Fuel some kind of slang for poorly made moonshine? That would explain your rambling.
"Who is Bitcoin?"
Man, take a break off the sauce already.
Oh we know who they are bro.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-06/palestinian-leader-yasser-arafa...
Over.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/11/06/bitcoin-is-not-broken/
HMMM.
Bitcoin bubble...
Pretty soon, it will be just like THIS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIaZN4OA8-Q
Digital money is digital money. USD's are digital. All fiats are now 'digital'. Numbers in a central bank's computer wet dream...
Tell me again about this 'BIT-COIN', please. Same substance (digital money), backed by, um, WHAT again?
Sorry, guys, I know the red-arrows will flash at this post. Might even set a ZH record on this!
Bitcoins are backed by the same thing as is gold - it's properties which to some people have certain value.
any money is backed by people accepting (either willingfully or by force) the money as payment for their work
No it's not, metals are (physical-chemical); stocks are (intellectual, industrial); btc is backed solely by faith, which as we all know from the aforementioned is very prone to "mood swings" - it has nothing else backing it besides that.
I guess I could go with a bunch of 1s and 0s floating in the ether, or I could opt for something you need to keep all those 1s and 0s levitated: silver.
Bitcoin and gold derive their value from the same place. The subjective value of gold and bitcoin, based on marginal utility and scarcity, to voluntarily paying consumers.
I hold gold, silver, bitcoin and about 8 other crypto currencies.
Gold and crypto compliment each other beautifully. Currency competition is the future. Embrace it, or don't...
How does this end. Here is how it ends. One day we wake up and find Bitcoin at 0.00. This is the heighth of monetary folly.
He won't be alone, you can run, but you can not hide.
Yep, only rare and collectible items like Bernanke's clownbux will eventually be left standing.
I particularly "like" that the Fed's balance sheet has been expanded by 300% since the crisis began, yet the Fed's useful idiots actually believe this expansion is "temporary", as the Fed claims.
It is entirely possible that BTC could drop to zero overnight - at this stage however the difficulty of causing that event to happen is extreme.
BTC contains risk, but its possible that the community can adjust to threats as they evolve and are identified to defeat attacks on it. The main risks are from the central bankers - and thats an immense threat, but the damage they have to do to contain or destroy it seems unrealistic at this stage. If BTC exceeds $100k per BTC, then some real caution will be in order.
This shit is not useful as a currency because of these swings.
It is for those who bought bitcoins at 0.10 ea. They even have extra money to pay blogs to spout about the amazing profits to be had.
Over.
Bitcoin started a few years ago at literally zero. The first recorded transaction was 10,000 BTC for some pizza. Today that pizza is worth $2.6m O.o. Obviously it is still growing. To be useful (handle worldwide business-to-business and day-to-day transactions) will require a BTC value much much much higher than it is now. I imagine when that happens the volatility will be shaken out to a certain degree. Even if it isn't, in the millibit and microbit range where you and I will be using it for daily transactions the volatility will be less than noticeable.
Real people reject your digital One World currencies!
Over!
Lol, go for it boss, I don't care. It is completely voluntary, after all. Let's just get back in touch in a couple years, yah?
Wait, weren't you just pushing litecoin, like... in the same thread?
You really are a stupid motherfucker. lol But you're fun to fuck with.
Over.
Yeah I admit to feeding the troll. Your posts are just too stupid to pass up bashing.
Yea, trust me brother, this isn't my first brawl in the fight club, if you even know what that means. lol.
Over.
Bitcoin spiked after the Cyprus crisis. Gold and silver have not only been contained, they have been severely repressed since that crisis.
The only way this will work is if the bankers get behind it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2013/03/08/first-bitcoin-hedge-fu...
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/5e972afe-3cce-11e3-a8c4-00144feab7de.html...
https://www.secondmarket.com/company/bitcoin-investment-trust
There is some good discussion regarding "Bitcoin is Broken" here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=324413.msg3476697#msg3476697
What little I understand of that is very interesting. Thanks!
Until and unless BitCoin becomes 100% independent of two things it will be suseptible to $0.00
Bitcoin is the first unmanipulable currency , it's for people who don't want a group of entrenched kleptocratic oligarchs siphoning off there wealth,
The difference between bitcoin and fiat is that the intrinsic value comes from the process of mining which now takes massive amounts of energy it's not easy to create a bitcoin, it's utility as a medium iof exchange which is second to none there is nothing that can compete on speed , efficiency and cost .
It's finite capped at 21 million unlike fiat which is capped at infinity (see Bernanke , Yellen, carney)
And it's backed by a network that's growing so fast that it's now approx 20-30 times faster than the top 500 super computers combined.
People want there own currency that cannot be manipulated bitcoin offers this , hence why it's the alternative to fiat that is currently rising massively .
I still think PM's are great but bitcoin is just another tool to hopefully undo the elite hedgemony.
there = t + here as in "over here" or "over there"
their = t + heir as in "Henry, the heir apparent" thus "their children".
I sympathize with the Bitcoin ethos but cannot trust it as it involves math, human beings, and calculators.
Nice definition. I just wish their we're more people like you ;)
It's the only currency which is backed by mathematical proofs. I know the weaknesses of mathematical logic extremely well, and I much prefer currency backed by proofs over currency backed by tradition or force. Defeating a sound proof is a challenge even for omnipotence.
You left yourself out of the equation.
Meh, that's like saying you don't trust Gold because its mined by people and weighed with instruments made by flawed human beings. That just doesn't hold up, does it?
Anyway, its your choice to participate or not, just don't float the "math is evil" thing like it is a rational argument.
Math is a human construct, Gold isn't.
Nope - math is a construct of the universe - we discover it, but we didn't create it.
I'll agree with that, but the word "mathematics" and the formula's are human constructs, the reality was already there.
A tribe in New Guinea discovering a radio and learning how to plug it in and tune it to a station does not mean they built it, ever could, or broadcast the signal or electricity.
Would defining Bitcoin as "unmanipulable" be the equivalent of saying PGP is uncrackable? If so, how big would the Bitcoin computer network need to be before it was powerful enough to crack PGP? I know Dan Kaminsky and Aaron Swartz discussed squaring Zooko's triangle before Aaron died. Unmanipulable would imply that "man" wasn't part of the word, but unfortunately for those in search of security it is.
On another more simple level, you should at least recognize the risks of a fork. Keep in mind I've been advocating the potential for Bitcoin since 2011, but never as a final solution. In the absence of an internet, the value would be impaired, but of course you could say "We'll always have a free and open internet." Once again... "Always" doesn't even apply to Wal-mart IMHO just because they use it as a slogan.
"The difference between bitcoin and fiat is that the intrinsic value comes from the process of mining which now takes massive amounts of energy it's not easy to create a bitcoin ... "
The value of BTC comes from its monetary properties, divisible, fungible, portable, recognizable, acceptable, limited supply, store of value - and for BTC you can add public ledger, and system of payment.
The value of anything is never 'based' on its production cost - it is based on its ability to satisfy the needs for which it may be employed, which creates demand - balanced against supply. Nothing has intrinsic value, it is valued by human beings based on demand and supply.
Money serves incredibly important functions, and the money which performs the best will be the most in demand. BTC holds the promise of being the best money ever to exist - it just has to pass the test of time, whether it can be corrupted, destroyed or controlled.
I'm happy for all you bitcoiners, I won't knock it, but I just don't trust anything I can't hold in my hand. I prefer my local economy where I buy and trade with local farmers and craftsmen and raise a lot of my own food...so far I haven't seen any farmer or crafter here locally that will take bitcoin.
They'd be changing their prices every ten effing minutes.
Just so you know, you CAN hold bitcoins in your hand. Instead of explaining it I'll direct you to research "paper wallets"
bitcoin isnt going to adopt itself. But if you educate yourself, THEN go talk to the farmer, explain this currency, and GROW the bitcoin economy... yeah yeah i know. foot ball is on and its sooooo comfortable being a slave. liberty isnt free my friend. put your shoulder to the wheel so your children wont have to.
Thanks Prisoner's D, but I think I'll stick to homesteading, it provides us food and sustenance indepedently, although I work very hard at raising my own food, I don't quite feel like a slave. As for football I don't have cable or satellite and don't watch tv.
you do realize how insane you sound?
They don't sound anywhere near insane as you sound stupid. Take time out from your extra busy shedule of making retarded comment and learn about the money called bitcoin. It is money, not fiat and no government controls it nor can they create more of it to devalue the ones you have.
You might like to buy physical gold with tamper-proof bitcoin attached. It's like gold with an embedded option. And it's a thing.
"Bitcoin" cannot succeed...the name sucks. Need a good name like...."Maxxcoin"
sarc off
BTC, i welcome you in the house of promises.
I remember when the retardly slow mainstream media like zerohedge wasn't all over bitcoins. The good old days when people who weren't lame old goldbugs discussed the future of bitcoins..and those were some grand discussions...now? it's like CNN talking about twerking.
can i use bitcoin without internet connection ?
How do i check (without internet) if a given bitcoin i get paid with is not counterfeit / doublespended that is if it was not spent a moment ago to buy something from a different seller?
You don't. You can't. If the internet went away, it's likely you're dead anyhow.
Once you get beyond $20 bills stuffed in your mattress, the dollar doesn't mean much without the internet, either.
Should google be worthless because if the internet went down you cant use google?
$795,000 per BitCoin here we come. Congress wants a part of the action now. The sky is the limit.
Hi Ho BitCoin.
795k? you must of have gotten some of that gold bug optimism
If BTC is able to survive attacks on it by our friendly jackbooted oligarchs, then its final valuation will be in the $1-$2 million dollar range.
The problem is that more and more extreme attacks will be launched against it as it rises in price - at some point the risk reward ratio will tell people to reduce their account size.
Some people still don't realize that BTC is money, they just don't understand what money is at all. Yes, gold is excellent money - and gold has survived as money for 5,000 or more years. Gold will always catch a bid, but BTC seriously craps all over the monetary properties of gold - BTC is multiple times better as money than gold is. The only issue with BTC is risk, in terms of monetary characteristics - that assaults the 'store of value' attribute which is arguably the most important of all monetary properties. BTC just hasn't lived long enough, hasn't weathered enough storms to create enough faith in its ability to survive - so for the moment, it is a risky play - but if it delivers long term, then it will vastly outperform gold in a currency crash.
Money is intangible - time people woke up and understood that. Gold just happens to have its monetary properties as a function of its atomic structure - BTC has monetary properties based on its digital/crypto structure. As far as the value of money is concerned - people don't care where monetary properties come from, just that they exist.