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Student And Car Loans Represent 99% Of All Loans Taken Out In Past Year

Tyler Durden's picture


The September consumer credit print is out and once again, it shows just what the key drivers in the US economy are. Or rather is: it is the US government handing out unrepayable student and car loans, even as the general consumer is widely deleveraging. Looking at the numbers: of the $13.7 billion in total consumer credit created in September, $15.8 billion (no, it's not a typo) was non-revolving credit, i.e., auto and student loans. The remainder, or ($2 ) billion, was yet another month of credit card deleveraging, as the bulk Americans can only buy "stuff" if it comes with the implicit provision that the credit will never have to be repaid, such as when it comes from the most insolvent entity of all - Uncle Sam.


But perhaps the chart that puts it all in perspective, is the following, which shows the breakdown of total credit issued in the past year broken down between revolving (credit cards) and non-revolving (car and student loans). The latter amounts for 99% of all loans taken out in the past 12 months. It needs no additional commentary.

Thank you Uncle Sam for making yet another generation of indentured servants who are studying geology on the taxpayers' dime, who will never get a job, who are up to their neck in debt, but at least can afford a Chevy Silverado.


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Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:21 | 4132252 hedgeless_horseman
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I passed 200,000 miles on my daily driver today, and my kid in college is on an academic scholarship (mostly, I believe, thanks to no television for 15+ years).

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:23 | 4132268 Bill the Cat
Bill the Cat's picture


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:33 | 4132272 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



That was back the, Bill.  Now, if you are overdrawn, they loan you MOAR!

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:33 | 4132296 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Housing is only to be owned by Bankers. All others pay rent. Now go back to work slaves.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:36 | 4132316 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

Studying geology not getting a job? Wow how moronic can you get there Tyler. Apparently you've never heard of this thing called oil. Starting pay for a masters in geology = 100k.  Not to mention you can generally get your masters for free paid for by (the state).

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 22:46 | 4132341 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Vehicle loans - loans securitized by rapidly depreciating assets with initial LtoV ratios 'puffed' by the lender to clear the deal.


College loans - securitized by future prospects for gainful, long-term employment paying a wage allowing for covering living expenses plus repayment of college loan + interest, at a time of deep, structural hollowing out of job market & real (and even nominal) decline in wages and benefits plus massive unemployment/underemployment.




Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:21 | 4132429 superflex
superflex's picture

As a geologist for the past 21 years, i concur.  

Too bad when I graduated in '92, the oil patch had dried up and there were no jobs in petroleum.  Mining and environmental were the only two fields producing jobs.  I certainly wasnt going to go into research of trilobites or solid solution series of magmas.

Who do you think finds the gold the Fed abhors.  

If it cant be grown, it has to be mined, bitchez.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:59 | 4132647 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I was thinking about going into Mining myself, but moved in a totally different direction. I've definitely known quite a number of people who went oil, and uhm... they're hooked up. I mean in the US today Oil companies sponsor the hell out of geology programs and groom and pay lavishly for new oil recruits.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:20 | 4132479 superflex
superflex's picture


That Bloom County cartoon remined me of the Bill the Cat acid i did back in college.

Good times, good times.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 19:00 | 4132830 dark pools of soros
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SR 2.0  just in time for your golden years

Fri, 11/08/2013 - 05:01 | 4134354 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

King Tut and 4-way window pane.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:40 | 4132558 swedish etrade baby
swedish etrade baby's picture

Bill the cat for president!!!

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:49 | 4132359 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

What asset bubble will be created once most of the students realize college is road to serfdom and the idiots who keep buying new cars realize that you can get a 2 year old car which is barely broken in for near 40% off the new sticker price.

Whats left after housing, student loans, and auto's? Maybe why thats why they are positioning for a war on the climate.  blow a bubble in a whole new industry which no one can really measure.. fuckin brilliant 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:55 | 4132376 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  fuckin brilliant 

It actually is.    Big-MIC was a fantastic crony-capitalist debt scam.   Big-House was another.   Krugman's space-alien plan didn't "fly" (even with the help of the ZH death-star plan), but Big-Climate might work.    If we built a levy around the entire country...  now THAT would be some infratructure project that would rival the Big-Road, Big-Water, and Big-Airport scams combined.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:17 | 4132462 YC2
YC2's picture

I am starting to wonder if I shouldnt just find the NWO conspiracy I am most comfortable with and see if I can get in on the ground floor.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:50 | 4132617 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  NWO conspiracy

The UN just formed the "Asteroid Defense" working group (seriously, but I can't think of the real name, but it's something like that).   Can you imagine what Big-Space will be like when the US and the UN (and the Chinese and Russians and EU and every other sociopaht on the planet) start getting money to find asteroids that will hit the earth.

THAT could be a gold mine (HEY, not literally you gold nuts) and the UN as great food.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:03 | 4132660 YC2
YC2's picture

Im just saying, better we blast asteroids to hell than eachother, so I am all for it.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 22:31 | 4133626 cynicalskeptic
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Sounds like a cover story for something like Ronnie's alien defense system - so the aliens already here and in control can shoot the 'good' aliens out of the sky and keep them from saving Earth.

All hail our Reptillian overlords.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:24 | 4132269 Dareconomics
Dareconomics's picture

Once credit creation slows some more, a recession will follow in quick order followed by God-knows-what by the new Chairman:

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:38 | 4132319 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Plenty of crappy books out there too so nip that reading stuff in the bud... Heaven knows learning to control oneself is out of the question. I raised up a Phd from a cub who graduated with no debt doing research in Chemistry. That's like blaming a gun for killing someone... BTW no TD from me.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:42 | 4132333 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

wow HH, that is impressive.  I thought i was strict with 2 hours of tv and 2 hours of ps3 a week for my 2 kids only after they completed my homework assignments (not the pathetic school work they give them which is done in 5 mimutes)

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:33 | 4132525 Froman
Froman's picture

I am with you HH...dd has 200k+ on it, we have had "peasant tv" (antenna no cable) since 1996, no wii, psp or xbox. We have our kid do the homework the teacher assigns plus the homework that we assign (which is done year round) and when not in school our kid must either play a sport or work.  Very happy to hear that strategy is paying dividends for your child.  We are hoping for the same. 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:48 | 4132577 centerline
centerline's picture

Don't discount music Froman.  Evidence is pretty conclusive that kids who participate in music do better.  They get used to real world skills like actual studying, practice, preparation, public performances, interviews, etc.  Plus, in school they wind up part of a group that behaves like a family of sorts (a place to fit in which keeps kids on the right track).  As an added bonus, you gain a skill that you can hopefully enjoy for life.

Better yet, do sports and music in some combination letting the kids explore and try stuff out.  My agreement with my kids is that I will provide the opportunity and equipment if they put in the hard work and dedication.  What hopefully comes out of it among other things is confidence.  I think the world we are heading into is one where determination is going to matter at least if not more than credentials.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 19:15 | 4132866 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

you better teach them all about gender diversity before child services come after them

Fri, 11/08/2013 - 11:49 | 4135367 Froman
Froman's picture

thanks for catching that CL...I am with you...we do music...kid plays the viola and piano. I play piano and guitar and have a vast and varied collection of recorded music.  That is one of the things that we do instead of watching peasant television.  One tends to have a lot of time to do other things when one is not glued to the television.  

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:59 | 4132645 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Good for you. TV and Hollywood are shit and are for retards who support the system by watching.  IDiots.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 20:25 | 4133201 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture


How did you manage this, because every kid is attracted by the poison and they don't understand, why it's not good for them. How did you do it?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 23:08 | 4133774 hedgeless_horseman
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Simple.  It is our house.  We gave away the television. 

Fri, 11/08/2013 - 05:29 | 4134373 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

And the children did not moan and whine and there were no problems. This, my friend, you can tell someone else...

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:20 | 4132254 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Default now and beat the rush. 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:20 | 4132256 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Bad news. We've eaten the seed corn.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:25 | 4132271 giggler321
giggler321's picture

So that's +1 to Monsanto then?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:46 | 4132345 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Well, what we didn't piss on while drunk.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:25 | 4132273 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

students owe some 700 billion dollars.

46% was it? that were not up to date on payments....?

so thats atleast 300 billion dollars that won't get paid off.


Student Bailout of 2020 maybe? or Debt Slave Work Camps?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:33 | 4132302 CClarity
CClarity's picture

Could denationalize Sallie Mae and have the Fed gobble those securitized loans at $85B / mo since UST bonds are running out and Fed already buying $3 of new mortgages for every 1$ originated.
What a bloody mess!

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:25 | 4132274 W74
W74's picture

Funny you mentioned Geology.  Actually one of the more employable majors out there.  Not quite as good as Physics or BioChem, but is still a hundred times better than English or Psychology.  I'd say Geology is actually in the top ten of broad-based categories.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:30 | 4132285 Bosch
Bosch's picture

Yeah I was going to say, but was too lazy to look it up to confirm it, but are geology majors easily employable by oil & gas companies (i.e. the only ones currently doing shit)?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:39 | 4132321 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture



Geologists used to be famed for feast or famine as the oil industry went thru cycles.

However, nowadays both private and public organizations hire people in earth sciences to stay in conformance to all sort of ecology and environmental regulations or concerns.



Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:39 | 4132326 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Top ten?? I have a 2 year geology degree. Nobody gives a shit. But that's probably because it's not a 4-8 year degree.

Or maybe nobody gives a shit because I don't even give a shit anymore. Fuck it, I'm going camping. 

You are not your job. You are not the car you drive... 


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:19 | 4132472 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I've got a buddy with a PhD in Geology.  MF'er is making so much god-damned money right now he's having a tough time finding ways to spend it all.  

Associates degrees are only good for competing against HS grads or for the occupational certs they may come with (which is actually a pretty good way to go, IMHO).

If you're just looking for a job - an occupational cert w/a bachelor's degree should put you on a management/foreman track in the trades - or if you're into tech - you may want go through to a Masters deg.  Most PhDs are underemployed considering the BS you have to put up with just to have to take a post-doc position for $35k/yr.  

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:20 | 4132481 YC2
YC2's picture

I AM my IKEA furniture, tho.  Built all that shit like legoland.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:46 | 4132589 Decolat
Decolat's picture

That Ikea crap certainly does break like legos.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:01 | 4132653 YC2
YC2's picture

Well, stop horsing around on it!  Or, get better with a hex wrench!

Fri, 11/08/2013 - 05:09 | 4134361 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I kinda like the Poing Chairs, though.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:27 | 4132276 Bosch
Bosch's picture

Chevy Silverado? Are you shittin' me? Those global warming hogs? 

Try a $40,000 BMW with fake leather seats & no SiriusXM that does the exact same task as a $20,000 cheaper Honda Accord or Civic. 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:30 | 4132283 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  cheaper

Unfortunately,  for must human, Bling is how you impress. 

function + bullshit = bling.

Show me something without bullshit and I'll show you something normal people don't care about.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:43 | 4132332 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

You must have a great list of those kinds of equations, NOTaREALmerican. More and more these days, comedians do not have to make up jokes, but merely report on the absurdities that they easily observe all around them ... As like with merely showing the Chart above, without needing to make any additional comments.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 20:21 | 4133186 SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

Here in LA...


Bling = BS/Function


..Kardashians come to mind.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:51 | 4132370 Billy Sol Estes
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Como se dice "My new Chevy Truck was made in Mexico and Canada" en ingles?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:27 | 4132277 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

One must live in a bucolic collage town to witness the gloriousness of "Keynesian" economics.  

It truely cannot be described.     In his honor, if offer-up the "Keynesian" prosperity prayer:

We must borrow more money,
To stimulate demand,
So that jobs are created,
And prosperity ensues,
Then we pay off our loans (unless we don't have enough prosperity, in which case repeat).

Forever, and ever, in his holy bearded name, Amen!

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:36 | 4132314 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

We must borrow more money, so we can work longer, so we can make more money. to pay back the creditor. and buy some coke, to stay up longer, so we can borrow more money??

Sumpin' like at??

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:39 | 4132324 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

The amount of housing being built around town for the State U. students is absolutely insane. Entire subdivisions on the edges, with high-rises downtown.

When this bubble pops, it's going to be really, really fugly.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:44 | 4132343 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

I have noticed the same thing NA, recently, while traveling to Iowa City for some Hawks games. Usually get there about three times a year, and each time I come down that stretch of I-80 my wife tells me to watch my mouth when I start to talk about all the !@#ing housing going up.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:29 | 4132279 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture



"who are studying geology on the taxpayers' dime"

Don't know why geology students rub Tyler raw. I suspect any graduate with a hard science degree will be able to get a paying job. Drama, journalism, and business ed students on the other hand...



Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:29 | 4132501 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

I suspect its the usual geology = geography like astronomy = astrology or Kenyan = Keynesian (the last one only true for presidents and the like)

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 19:24 | 4132897 pitz
pitz's picture

STEM graduate unemployment is horrible right now pretty much across the board.  I think you're talking about the situation in the post-collapse era, where a background in anything but complete bullshit probably will be valuable.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:29 | 4132281 youngman
youngman's picture

Its funny but Visa and Mastercard seem to be doing well is that?????

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:44 | 4132338 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

This can only mean net change in consumer credit.  In other words, no net growth.

Charts and chartists, like women, have their limitations.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:32 | 4132743 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture



When you borrow from the FED for nothing, and charge your cardholder 28%, anyone can make money.


Even if you are only charging 9%, you are stealing them blind with profits relative to cost.


This isn't brought up around here - but the lack of usuary laws is a major part of the problem. Interst rates over 10% just accelerate the flow of money from the everyday people to the TBTF/TPTB people. If an entire nation can't make it when it pays over 7% in interest, how can an individual or SME?


So include that concept into your thoughts about why the wheels are coming off the wagon - you can't bankrupt the middle class, which bankrupts SMEs, which bankrupts megacorps, which bankrupts banks, which bankrupts nations, which bankrupts the world.


But it's like NSA spying; none of the megacorps figured out that the NSA now knows EVERYTHING these idiots are doing, both in the corporate sense, and in their dirty, formerly private but now blackmailable, lives.


Just because you run a megacorp doesn't mean you are smart - look at GM as the epitome of that idea. How exactly do you bankrupt a company that had 56% of the market share for automobiles in America?


You put self-aggrandizing, arrogant, idiots who got there through nepostism, school networks, and other non-merit routes, in to run the company.


Look out WalMart - you're next.


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 19:17 | 4132874 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

John Taylor Gotto explained it with more detail.  Upper management in GM in 1950 were all engineers.  In 1980, Harvard MBA's.  It stopped being a car company and became part of the FIRE economy.  Game over.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:30 | 4132288 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Ben Bernanke's son playing the same game with over $400,000 in student loan debt. He'll default through printing or loan forgiveness.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:40 | 4132772 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture



Bernanke's kid will get his loans forgiven through a payoff by some comapny that wants to use his connections, or outright by some other technique of the kleptocracy, such as an overpriced consultant's contract, government contract, or other "slipping the money under the table" technique.


You don't think people in that club ever pay off their dubts, do you?


That's another reason why all this talk about "paying the Piper" is bouncing off ears that can't hear - they don't repay loans - they get someone else to repay them - so it doesn't matter how much debt is created - all the so-called debt is really just spending money for whatever catches their fancy.


As I've read so often - "It's a club - and you aren't in it."


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:31 | 4132290 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Jesus fucking Christ.

I am gob-smacked.

Well then, its up to the 'Yoof' to kick this off and start fucking banksters and politicians about, oh, and shady car dealers.  If this is true, we are a smidgen away from action.

My mouth is salivitating at the prospect.

Bitchez.....     ;-)

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:38 | 4132312 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

In the 60s the youth were tearing up draft cards as a form of the new normal it will be credit bills. 

This time...the youth might actually be able to fuck de man. 

Mind will be a small victory as never in my memory have I seen a generation with such shitty fucking prospects.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:41 | 4132327 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

The youth will then soon find out why the IRS purchased all of those hollow-points.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:45 | 4132334 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Sure...getting whacked would be what I called a shitty prospect. 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:47 | 4132793 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

No, they'll just tass them.  Whacking them is the only way they can default on their loans.  Bad for business.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:47 | 4132351 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Shady car dealer?  Irrate bankster?  Filthy politician?


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:56 | 4132381 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Sussed it.

Its Hairy Reed.  Fuck you son, I know you been watching me you fucking pervert, now fuck off before I phone your wife and tell her you like 'Boys'.  Dirty bastard, they should cut your filthy cock off.

Hang on, it might be David 'Call Me Dave' the moron, if it is filth pot, the same applies to you, bar your wife prefers minge.

Dirty voyeur buggers.


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:33 | 4132297 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Don't look at me. I haven't taken out a student loan in nearly a decade. As for auto loans, I just paid mine off last month.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:44 | 4132342 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Me too, mortgage is next month; starve you credit drinking vampires!

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:35 | 4132306 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Buying depreciating assets with compound interest loans. Brilliant!

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:38 | 4132320 Voicefather
Voicefather's picture

Oil and gas explorers frequently hire geologists. All of the geologists I know are gainfully employed. Physicists are hurting more due to lack of NASA work and increasing cheap competition from Chinese and Indian H1B's. It didn't help that freaking Obama canceled the Ares rocket right when it passed all of its tests and was ready for production....


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:43 | 4132336 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

I truly think if the Gub'ment gets out of the way and lets private industry take the lead we will makes great strides towards space migration.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:49 | 4132360 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: I truly think if the Gub'ment gets out of the way 

How much more out-of-the-way would you like them to get?  NASA is now just bureaucrats and a few geeks left monitoring some space junk.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:43 | 4132785 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

NASA was/is just a front for the real, deepest black space program.  Always has been.  Chemical combustion propulsion is a funny joke to those on the inside.  Sort of like black powder flintlocks.  Quaint.

They are killing NASA now because they don't even worry much any more about Nellie breaking water.  Same with the gun grab, Agenda 21, the Fed, the cold war, the chemtrails, Fukushima.  They just don't care anymore because they are quite sure that they have us by the balls and we can't do shit about it.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:43 | 4132337 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  It didn't help that freaking Obama canceled the Ares rocket right when it passed all of its tests and was ready for production

Was this part of the Big-MIC crony-capitalist scam or the Big-Space crony-capitalist scam?

Fri, 11/08/2013 - 12:14 | 4135463 Voicefather
Voicefather's picture

As much as I dislike big government sometimes, it occasionally has its place and I see that as national works. This includes projects that have no immediate profit to encourage a business to do it or works that are of so grand a scale no business can do it. The moon landing and our exploration of the solar system is a perfect example of this and anyone that would take these achievements back because government did it and not private, for-profit, business is a fool.

NASA was founded with the motto "For the benefit of all". If it has floundered it is due to the lack of visionaries in office with ever-shifting political goals.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:44 | 4132340 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I wanted to be an astronomer when I was young, but there was no way I was going to become dependent upon fedgov for one of the few jobs in the market.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:04 | 4132405 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Yep. Plenty of work for geos and geo-physicists. My older son is a geo. My younger one wanted to go into nuke physics but opted for EE as its more employable down the road.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 19:26 | 4132904 pitz
pitz's picture

Yeah good choice, although EE hasn't actually done very well in the post-2000 tech sector collapse.  The new companies, the Google's, the Facebooks, employ very few actual engineers compared to firms they replaced (more hardware-oriented). 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:42 | 4132331 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

I work out daily at the rec center here in town that is part of the local college. Majority of those students vehicles put mine to shame, and I can't imagine how much debt they are graduating with. 

Girls working out in $200 outfits, everyone just having a good old time. It's almost comical but part of me is a little sad for them. Reality bites many of them in the ass after the diploma. I know this becuase I see many of them the next year, working local jobs here becuase there is little back home.

It's almost a running joke amongst these kids that they will be trapped in the tri-state area after the diploma.

I hate to think what happens when/if the big Ag bubble pops here. Locals won't know WTF hit them. They choose to igonore the early 80's farming crisis.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:47 | 4132350 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re: everyone just having a good old time

In fairness to the students, tho, many are children of the top 10-15%, and for the nobility-class, college is something you know your kids have to have for credentials to stay in the top 10-15%. You can't get hired by Big-Corp or Big-Gov without at least a 4 year degree now.

For the bottom trash/peasant class the debt-serf road will be long and hard.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:56 | 4132380 BAINES03
BAINES03's picture

68% of high school graduates go to college.  are they all part of your nobility class%?  you sound like a bitter Karl Marx.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:58 | 4132641 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  you sound like a bitter Karl Marx.

ME?  no way.   I live in one of the high-end bucolic college towns over flowing with money from young debt-serfs.

I'm a sociopath, not a Marxist.  I'm just not a very good sociopath.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:33 | 4132749 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

All Marxists are sociopaths but some sociopaths are fascists.  DARPA has recently discovered a new chemical.  Four drops on your conscience will shrink it to nothing.  Merck is about to market it OTC under the tradename Preperation C.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:04 | 4132662 Freddie
Freddie's picture

A lot of kids going to college - should not be there.  They should be in some trade school.  It is a 4 year baby sitting service for many. 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:57 | 4132386 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

I'd be curious to know what area that is.  Sounds scarily like where I hang my hat.  Except I wouldn't know about the $200 suits on the girls.  If I hung around where they work out, I suspect the police would be along to question me.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:21 | 4132483 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

They don't all wear that many $$ worth of workout clothing, but many of them do. If farm ground(tillable) is fetching over 20 large/acre then the odds are you know what area I refer to.

Don't worry about the cops, a few of them are there about every day as well,lol.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:13 | 4132441 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

Girls working out in $200 outfits, everyone just having a good old time.

Yeah looks like everyone as decided to party like it's 1929.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:56 | 4132353 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Loans on planet q99x2 are illegal. The bankers have all been hung.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:49 | 4132363 starman
starman's picture

2014 will be the year of loan defaults! 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:53 | 4132372 BAINES03
BAINES03's picture

Can someone help me out... why is student loan debt worse than credit card debt?  I'd rather be in debt while getting an education rather than being in debt because I 'needed' a big screen TV.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:59 | 4132391 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  why is student loan debt worse than credit card debt?  

Well, on ZH people officially hate all debt because debt creates money and money is decribed in great detail by many semi-autistic economics from German speaking countries; the summary of which is this:  debt causes immoral degenerate behavior and hair to grow on your hands.

So, it's really just a moral thing.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:01 | 4132400 BAINES03
BAINES03's picture

Thanks.  Well, if that's true, why does it matter which "column" the debt is in?  As you say, they hate ALL debt... and by that rationale, if it were 99% consumer credit debt would people be bitching just as much/the same?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:10 | 4132418 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:34 | 4132751 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

The problem isn't that they are student loans, per se.  The problem is, kids are paying $40,000 for a $4000 education.

But because of the availability of student loans, a $4k education now costs $40k.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:40 | 4132556 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  bitching just as much/the same

Yeah,  there's unlimited bitching about debt here.    If you take out a student loan, or a loan to buy a car,  a house, or lava lamp we'll hate you the same. 

It's a equal opportunity debt hater policy here.   

(Note, if you own any gold however, you'll be exonerated of most sins - as long as you didn't vote for the Blue Team.)

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:07 | 4132677 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

It is true unless you can prove undue hardship in court.  We do not make the rules here, we simply have to deal with them.  You used the term "they" and I find that an odd usage.  I guess that means that I am "us" then because I hate debt.  Are you doing a case study on ZHers for a school project?  I'll help you out.  Not all ZHers hate debt because some of us hold bonds and and study bond markets and interest rates.  Some here trade forex, equities, futures, PM's, you name it.

What "we" all hate are manipulated markets via HFT or crooked central bankers and the crooked politicians who enable the the fox to run the henhouse.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:39 | 4132552 Keyneconoclast
Keyneconoclast's picture

Generally, the investment is proving to be a bad investment for a lot of kids. It is easy to get loans ... then half don't graduate, and half of those don't find a decent income after graduation.

True anecdotes:

1. In investigating school options, there are numerous small academic and trade schools just itching to get their hands on our kids Pell Grants and GSLs. The conversation starts with, or quickly moves to, the financial aid councelor. Learning seems secondary.  The value is circumspect.

2. I just watched an aquaintance buy a car and a trip to mexico with student loan money.


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:04 | 4132406 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Student loan debt is almost impossible to discharge under bankruptcy laws is why.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:08 | 4132425 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

If you have a solid plan and are pretty certain you will be making good use of your degree, then student loans can make sense.  My daughter is 5 now.  When she's 18, whether she needs loans will depend heavily on her plan.  If she wants to study biology, chemistry, computer science, or the like (even education or social work if she's serious about it), then she has a free ride courtesy of her dear old dad.  I'll pay for 4 years out of my own pocket (including dorm costs) and smile while I'm doing it.  However, if she wants to study English, theater, gender studies, sociology or whatever, then she'll need to take out loans and find her own way financially, because for me college was not just a party time before real life kicked in.  It was preparation for the stuff I wanted to accomplish.  I expect the same level of seriousness from her.  If I'm paying and she wants to do things like that, then she'll do them as part of a double major, paired with something that will pay the bills.  And she'll keep her GPA up.


As a practical matter, student loans are MUCH worse than any other form of debt because they're not dischargeable in bankruptcy.  You will pay it off NO MATTER WHAT.  Many people get consolidation loans even at higher interest rates as soon after college as possible to get this monkey off their back.  I'm nost certain but what there might be other restrictions involved with student loans, too.  However, my folks gave me the same deal I'll be giving my daughter, so I didn't have to deal with loans.  Yes, my parents were and are some of the coolest people on the planet.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:29 | 4132508 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

0) Federal government doesn't belong in the lending business,

1) Drives inflation of education costs,

2) Non-dischargeable in bankruptcy,

3) Fed upon by diploma mills,

4) Unknowable amount diverted to living expenses,

5) It's not education any more, it's creeping credentialism.



Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:38 | 4132549 centerline
centerline's picture


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:44 | 4132580 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:  Federal government doesn't belong in the lending business,

Actually, up until 2 years ago, the Fed was NOT in the lending business, and great-n-glorious financial INSTITUTIONS like my TBTF bank were.   You know what happened back then, when FREE-ENTERPRISE was creating all the student loan debt?

1) Drives inflation of education costs,
2) Non-dischargeable in bankruptcy,
3) Fed upon by diploma mills,
4) Unknowable amount diverted to living expenses,
5) It's not education any more, it's creeping credentialism.

The Fed took over from the TBTF because we were lining our pockets too much.   Those 3% fees for doing nothing and was just a bit too much I guess.

So, in reality, one group of sociopaths took over from another group of sociopaths.  Ain't Merica the greatest county in the universe?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:18 | 4132715 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Right, and the only reason most banks were interested in making student loans was because they were federally guaranteed (until 2010) under FFEL.   Student loans started out as a way to get more people into hard science (National Defense Education Act, 1958)... getting the loans off the government's books via FFEL turned it into a free for all.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:22 | 4132728 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:30 | 4132515 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture



"why is student loan debt worse than credit card debt?"

It is not, at least in any moral or economic sense. In fact, any debt taken on that is aimed at increasing capital (the life value of increased earning power) is OK in my book.

Of course, that is usually not why debt goes on a credit card, is it? So, in most normal cases, student loan debt is *probably* better then debt for consumer items.

However, there is also the legal issue: laws passed by our generous Congress make it very difficult for a person to get out from under student debt. Congress put that form of debt into a special category of purgatory.



Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:20 | 4132720 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Not totally correct.  Easy to default on a student loan.  It's called the Gary Webb method.  You double tap yourself to the side of the head.  Don't miss.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:00 | 4132399 BeerMe
BeerMe's picture

Makes me wonder if I should continue deferment or forbearance on my student loans.  Seems one day the politicians will get the bright idea to "help out" to save the economy.  Sound familiar?

What's the average monthly payment for a student loan?  $300?  Add another $300 for healthcare.  Plus another $400 for rent only if you live with someone.  15-20% in taxes, let's say $500.  Add in food, utilities and transportation.  Not a whole lot left over in an entry level job.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:04 | 4132410 css1971
css1971's picture


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:07 | 4132420 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

something really funny about car loans ... is everyone in this country buying a new car?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:11 | 4132432 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

i'm seeing them everywhere around here, and on radio and television they are swearing guaranteed approval no matter how bad your credit is.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:33 | 4132523 NOTaREALmerican
NOTaREALmerican's picture

Re:   is everyone in this country buying a new car?

High end automotive bling is the new black.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:19 | 4132467 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Its almost like dropping money out of a heilocopter.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:21 | 4132482 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Well at least the car loans are backed by something tangible, unlike most of the shit in our FIRE economy.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:23 | 4132490 Bear
Bear's picture

"Chevy Silverado" ... WTF ... I thought all the Geology-studying eco-fascists enviro-freaks drove Volts 

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:46 | 4132575 W74
W74's picture

Geology eco-fascists?  You mean kids trying to get into the mining sector or petroleum engineering?

Bear, I'm sure you're a good dude, but what fucking misconceptions are these?  Where are you people getting this?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:47 | 4132594 superflex
superflex's picture

They picture the environmental douches who reek of Patchouli and want to save endangered slugs from the evil miners, prospectors and oil barons.

We're not all like that.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:45 | 4132583 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"broken down between revolving (credit cards) and non-revolving (car and student loans)"

stunning data

on the left, no collateral. On the right, cars and non-defaulting debtors

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 18:11 | 4132688 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Very interesting point.  Repos and debt serfdom.  What's not to like?

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:58 | 4132633 22winmag
22winmag's picture

If putting firearms on layaway were counted as loans, I bet the percentage would be lower!

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 20:02 | 4133073 BlueCheeseBandit
BlueCheeseBandit's picture

Americans still busy selling themselves into white slave niggerdome I see.

Car? Get used or a bike. Home? Live in a trailer park. College? You can get the barista gig without a Harvard degree.

Today nothing is so radical or dangerous to the status quo as living below your means.

Girlfriend? Consider masturbation. You'll have more money AND orgasms. Win-win.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 21:07 | 4133347 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture


Cars are needed for the get away.


Thu, 11/07/2013 - 23:06 | 4133762 Mongoose
Mongoose's picture

Well, looks like inspite of this stellar Recovery we're having, ol' Dave Ramsey ain't never gonna be hurtin' for audience.

Back to killin' snakes...


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