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Americans 34 Times More Interested In Buying Guns Than Obamacare

Tyler Durden's picture


It would appear that the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) website - required when purchasing a gun or explosive - is capable of handling large volumes of users...


Source: FBI

(h/t @Not_Jim_Cramer)


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Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:16 | 4146556 WOAR
WOAR's picture

And the sheep thought that conspiracy theorists were crazy...

Not as crazy as people who want to 1-800-FUCKYOU!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:17 | 4146563 ACP
ACP's picture

Makes sense. A gun will save your life and Obamacare will kill you.


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:24 | 4146590 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



The only way to afford the new healthcare premiums is rob people....I'm not walking around in public unless I'm packing some heat.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:32 | 4146627 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes.  Nothing hard to understand about why 34 times as many Americans (inc. Bearing Guy) would be more in the marketplace to buy a gun vs. Obamacare.

I think I know my Christmas present: a .308!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:42 | 4146698 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Mmm...gun porn!  Yeah baby!  Get some!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:33 | 4147271 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Not the sealed battle packs, but...

In Stock

This is .308 Prvi Partizan 145gr. FMJ Ammo. This ammo is brass cased, boxer primed, and non-corrosive. It has a 145gr. all copper FMJ boattail bullet, so it is non-magnetic. This ammo has a sealed primer and annealed case neck. It is extremely high quality ammunition. This ammo comes packed in 20rd. boxes, 1000rds per case.

$649.95 per 1,000

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 21:05 | 4148287 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I'm finding ammo much more available recently.  Even walmart had some 5.56 that wasn't snapped up immediately and Bass Pro was selling ammo cans of XM-855 for about 0.54/rnd.  Still very short supplies on powder and primers though.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:45 | 4146722 Overfed
Overfed's picture

FALs are nice, but way too pricey. Out here in FEMA region X, one can get a NIB Colt 20" HBAR and 1000 rds. of ammo for about $1600. Or an AK plus a 1000 rds. for about $1K. More $$ available for training.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:08 | 4146860 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Are any of those AK's like James River Armoury or others more accurate?  I wanted a DSA FAL but a ZH member said DSA were jerks to him.   They had an STG 58 built on Austrian parts but stopped selling those.

AK 74 is supposedly more accurate

It comes down to ammo costs too.  The Russki calibers are cheaper. 

What I really want is a Lewis Machine Tool .308 but sadly - guns & knives scare me. I wanted something for suppression fire for zombies. I think I may have to buy a baseball bat instead.


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:15 | 4146901 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Nah, nuthin' fancy. Just run of the mill WASRs and whatnot. A couple of hundred extra funbux can get you an Arsenal USA-built AK, and those are pretty top-notch. Right before the panic I had the opportunity to buy a Red-Jacket built AK for $600, but I passed on it. :-(

5.45X39 is probably a more inherently accurate round than 7.62, and cheap. But the rifles are more $$, and mags are really spendy.

Mega Arms out here in FEMA region X, builds a pretty sweet .308 AR, too.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:25 | 4146953 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The arsenal guns will shoot slightly better...  it's a judgment call as to whether the price difference is worth it.  Even the cheapest AK goes bang every time you pull the trigger.  If you're into mall ninja aftermarket parts, then you might run into some issues trying to fit them to a milled receiver.  During the panic buying, the nicer milled guns didn't appreciate as much in price and, relatively speaking, there were some steals to be had early on...  now prices are getting back to normal...  ~$500 for your WASR packages and ~$850+ for your stamped arsenals and ~$1,100 for your milled guns (although there are some other imports that are running ~$600-700 for milled receivers).  As far as the debate between stamped and milled guns, there are plenty of both that have been to hell and back and are still working...  you probably won't put either through anything that would test the difference.

5.45 is definitely more accurate...  however, it runs into the same problem as the 223/5.56 round, stopping power.  As with everything, there are tradeoffs.

The price on steel cased russian ammo is getting back down to pre panic levels ~$.26-28/rd.  $.20/rd is the magic number.  Been plenty of xm855 deals as well and it's easy to find it sub $.40/rd.  I wouldn't recommend running steel through an AR, but that's just me.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:50 | 4147080 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

we've had trouble with the steel/varnished cases in both AR's and Mini14's.  It gets hot, sticky and you end up with failure to seat or with a stuck case. 

The steel/zinc coated "silver bear" work great though, no observed issues.

The trouble is the straight walled case, the russky's solved that with a slight taper. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:32 | 4147279 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Thanks for the tip on silver bear.  Any barrel wear issues or tearing up the receivers?

I like guns but I cannot own them as I am allergic to gunpowder, napalm and Obama's Stasi goons.   I just want the police state stogges to know I only have a baseball bat and cheap pepper spray.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:35 | 4147296 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It's not the barrel wear to be worried about so much as the parts that chamber and extract the rounds...  if the case material is as hard or harder than these parts, then you get excessive/unnecessary wear...  hence the use of softer brass to cut down on wear and tear.  However, practically speaking, you probably won't shoot enough rounds to ever find out the difference.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 20:24 | 4148155 dtwn
dtwn's picture

A couple tests of steel vs brass ammo.  I think steel is ok for plinking for the number of rounds most people would shoot.  Wouldn't use it for defense or shtf though.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:57 | 4147125 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Thanks.  FEMA Region X.  LOL!   I guess everything will be renamed soon by FEMA regions.   Get the boiled rope and guillotines ready for these bastards. 

I have a hankering for the state of Northern Colorado if it ever happens.  

I saw "nuthin fancy" and though of the nuttin fancy guy who reviews guns on youtube.  He has really taken off but his videos have gotten longer like a TV show.   I sit there and say "Dude - get to the part whhere you shoot the gun at a target!" 

I think I cheked out Mega and they do have nice stuff.  There is also PTR??  I lose track of them all. There are some real northern Minnesota family with sports and grocery stores making really nice ARs too.  A guy in WV making nice stuff.  Is he Mega.   I think guns and ammo are the only things Americans make anymore.  ;-)

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:09 | 4147182 Overfed
Overfed's picture

Never had any PTR stuff personally. I'm not much of a fan of H-K.

In the last 15 or 20 years or so, CNC machining equipment has gotten a lot more affordable, and as a result small time manufacturers are popping up all over the place. I love it.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:35 | 4147291 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Did you see the company in Austin, TX.  They 3d printed a 1911.  They have a video on youtube.  It is a very nice 1911 too.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:51 | 4147573 Overfed
Overfed's picture

I have seen that. It's pretty awesome. It's gonna be even more awesome when the patent on that machine expires and you'll be able to go Harbor Freight and pick one up for a couple $K.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:37 | 4147301 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

PTR fan here in Fema Region IV.  Great value.  Cheap mags.  Lots o' parts.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:14 | 4146902 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Nothing spells suppression fire like a 12gauge pump shotgun and a thousand rounds of OO buckshot. Buy two and invite a friend..........

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:22 | 4147240 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

I like the 2 and 3 quarer Rio's double ought.

Recoil is easy, and never had a mis-feed.  Cabela's has a deal on them all the time.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:16 | 4146921 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Freddie, three years ago I bought a Russian-American Saiga AK-47 semi-auto clone for $900.  Works great!  Put almost 2000 rounds (Russian Tula, Korean, Hungarian, American ammo) with 0 jams.  The AKs make no claim for accuracy, but I KNOW that I can put 'em down at 75 yds, no problem, nail 'em.  (75 yds is no great feat however)

The Saiga now retails for some $2900!  Mucho for an AK.  That AK I bought has beaten ALL of my other investments.

Still, there are cheaper ($600 or so?) Romanians at your LGS.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:31 | 4146991 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

 AK with US made receivers and long barrel with  a tripod rest help accuracy out to 250yds.

About as far as my eyes are good for now.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:41 | 4147046 Lukacko
Lukacko's picture

nah the prices are down to pre-panic rates, if not cheaper.  J&G has a glut of AK's they've been dropping prices all over the place.,-223,-16-barrel,-black-synthetic-stock,-new.-p-63105.html


I'd get a saiga over a wasr or other comm bloc made ak any day.  A converted saiga would be a bit pricier, but not all that much.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:38 | 4147026 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Look for a Waffen Werks AK-74.  Bloc parts but put together in US.  Very good rifles.  The 5.45 is pretty accurate and inexpensive.  Texas Weapon Systems makes a dust cover with an integral rail so you can mount optics or or a peep or both.  The whole rig should put you down about a grand and is comparable to an Arsenal. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 21:42 | 4148372 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

I like my Waffen Werks 74.  Eats surplus 7N6 no problem.  $0.18/round.  Should have stocked up 2 years ago when it was $0.10/round.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:47 | 4146734 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

I just paid the $400 to renew my license here in NYC.  Went to the range and the membership renewal is $400.  Bought 4 boxes of 45ACP ammo and that was $200, so I'm out a thousand bucks for a few hours at the range.  If they can't tax it to death they can sure come close.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:50 | 4146756 Agent P
Agent P's picture

I guess monetary roadblocks don't count as "shall not be infringed".  My condolences...that sucks! 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:51 | 4146763 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

And you still live in NY why?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:04 | 4146832 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

My thought exactly, vote with your feet...

The gunshine state also has year round vegetable production.


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:05 | 4146834 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

The best food, culture, and entertainment in the US, not to mention the work opportunities.  Plus you can drive two hours and you're in the wilderness.

Gun laws here do suck though.  The application process is ridiculous, they scan your whole hand, make you provide depositions for any reported police incident for your whole life, then make you do a personal interview with a police seargent.  You turn your gun over so they can shoot a round for a ballistics match then return it to you if they deem you (after a few weeks) sane enough to own a firearm.  


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:21 | 4146876 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



The best food, culture, and entertainment in the US, not to mention the work opportunities.  Plus you can drive two hours and you're in the wilderness. 

So, the bar-b-cue, rodeos, and live music in NYC are really that good?

Regarding jobs...

Texas leads the nation in job creation with Austin, Houston, Dallas,
San Antonio, Dallas and McAllen creating more jobs now than before the
recession. According to the report, Austin saw the highest percentage
increase in jobs of any city in the nation.

"Texas continues to set a national example for job growth, and I'm
proud the Lone Star State is home to six out of the 14 cities that have
more jobs now than before the recession," Gov. Perry said. "Our low
taxes, predictable regulations, fair courts, skilled workforce and low
cost of living have made Texas the best state in the nation to live,
work, raise a family and run a business."

I had more than a dozen deer blocking my driveway this morning.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:28 | 4146967 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Kind of tough to work without water, and whats up with Texas going back to gravel roads.


PS  Maybe the deer saw the hose in your yard.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:43 | 4147055 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture


Houston receives 49.7 inches of rain in an average year.

NYC also receives 49.7 inches of rain in an average year.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:56 | 4147118 akak
akak's picture

You're forgetting about the 1348.2 inches of humidity that Houston receives annually as well.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 22:54 | 4148543 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Pfft, 80% humidity and 105 degrees. Perfect weather to go out and cycle 50 miles. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:55 | 4147110 AnAverageBear
AnAverageBear's picture

And that is exactly why I am moving my family to Texas at the end of the week!!!!!!! NY/NJ, I won't miss you.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 21:14 | 4148319 XitSam
XitSam's picture

ha ha texas deer.  I was walking from my barrack to the Ft. Hood movie theater and off to the west I saw a couple Great Danes a ways away in the the field. I thought that was weird because there is no base housing nearby and who would let their dogs loose on post.  Then I realized, they weren't dogs, they were texas deer.  Yep, everything is smaller in texas.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:21 | 4146939 10mm
10mm's picture

You can do all that shit in Philly and be in Pa. Ride the train up to that shit hole from a lesser shit hole if need be. The lesser shithole still allows the pistola.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:53 | 4147099 Blano
Blano's picture

Never been to NYC, but I kinda doubt the best part, considering what's available down here.

Being in Dallas I'm a few hours drive or less from all the entertainment I'll ever need that's plenty good enough.  Plus the food here is awesome, and there's plenty of places to hide in east/west Texas if SHTF.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:35 | 4147512 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The elites, The Company and gubmint is supposedly building major underground survival stuff in the caves in Ark and Missouri border.  It is on youtube with Jesse Ventura and you can see the caves, major tunnels and vehicles they are stockpiling.

I hope they have gold there because a bunch of boys from TX and AR plus Missou and OK are gonna go take it.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:40 | 4147535 Freddie
Freddie's picture

NYC - the only thing worthwhile is the pizza.  Supposedly it is slightly better because of the water which comes from upstate NY.   Jobs yes - if you like working with AH's.  The jobs advantage gets taxed away as well.

Somebody has to pay those NJ Turnpike toll collectors making $280,000 a year and the Con Edison linemen who sleep in their trucks and the NY PD/FD gold plated pension.  The people who pay are SUCKERS. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 19:02 | 4147831 10mm
10mm's picture

ATI (American Tactical Imports) moved out of New York state to S.C. and Henry rifles said bye bye to NJ and bolted to Wisconson. Nuff said with the shit holes.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:44 | 4154373 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

STFU don't know dick.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:55 | 4150612 matt atsinger
matt atsinger's picture

Amen, left six months ago. I must not be too bright to hold out that long

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:07 | 4146845 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

What's a license?

Anybody dumb enough to beg for permission to own a gun gets the raping they deserve.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:27 | 4146961 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Here is our license...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:17 | 4146924 10mm
10mm's picture

And you wonder why hoarding continues. Just a matter of time.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:51 | 4146762 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

Thanks for the info. Now I won't have to look things up on

 I always chuckle at those who think that no one will be shooting back! The reality is, you won't live long enough to fire 50 lbs in most SHTF  situations. Better ditch the extra ammo carriers and invest in some class IV ballistic plates (ceramic or steel) first. Oh, and one more thing, don't forget Night vision or thermal imaging capability.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:12 | 4146770 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture


This could never happen where you live...

But if it did happen, then you would be very grateful to have squirreled away some of this gear, now, while you can still get it...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:56 | 4150624 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The kevlar helmets are pretty pricey.   Are the steel east german, swiss and soviet steel helmets any good?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:44 | 4147061 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

Nice, but definitely for Gear Queers. Those of us on a budget would be better served with something that retails for under a grand, iron sights included. DIY kits (starting around $600), buy your upper/lower parts based on your needs (lowers are pretty eaasy to assemble with a couple of inexpensive tools), or a S&W M&P15 Sport or equivalent (MSRP $839).

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:53 | 4147102 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture


J&G sales and Centerfire Systems both have AKs for under 550.00 online.  Shop around, you can find AR's for under 600.00.  The gun snobs will turn up their noses, but they're usually trying to compensate with money what they don't invest in time building their skills.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:45 | 4147559 Freddie
Freddie's picture


Skills.  The elites and other p*lice state nazi thugs will need to really fear the hunters who know how to hide and use a scoped .308. 

Any of you "dudes" checkout those SKS bullpup conversion kits?   There is a video on youtube with a girl in a bikini doing the tear down and reassembly in about 7 minutes to show how simple it is.

I saw some SKS for about $250 and the kit is $199.  The Kel Tec bullpip may be nicer but a lot more expensive and not in stock.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:08 | 4147175 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Nothing wrong with semi auto mind you but I prefer full auto (for fun) or bolt action (for the slight improvement in placing long distance shots).

Suppressed is always a polite way to go so as not to disturb the neighbors.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:39 | 4147531 X86BSD
X86BSD's picture

Patriot ordinance factory > All!!!
POF-USA baby!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 20:26 | 4148159 dtwn
dtwn's picture

And for those on a budget, Mosin Nagants are hard to beat.  Cheap ammo too!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:37 | 4146663 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Reloading gear for me.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:46 | 4146727 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Looking at that too, what do you like?  Hornady, RCBS, Lee, or Dillon?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:10 | 4146875 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:27 | 4146965 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:45 | 4147331 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

I run a Dillon XL650 for most stuff but, a rockchucker for hand loading long range super accurate stuff for my big bore stuff.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:12 | 4147201 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Redding...period. Hornady multi is a nightmare. The Redding 7 place turret is great. For 50 cal (my competition event) the Hornady single stage performs OK. Redding dies are always worth the money.

Dillon progressive (650) works.  I'm told the 1050 is better but costs about 2x per caliber (and a few hundred for the machine).

Reloading can get complicated so know what you are doing. If the term 'headspace' is not in your vocab...stick to buying reloaded ammo.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:47 | 4147342 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

I headspace my bottle neck stuff out .002 for my bolt guns and .003 for semi-auto stuff.  you need a good headspace gauge though... no a "go/no-go" gauge.  Those are useless to anyone that trying to do quality work for long range shooting.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 18:04 | 4147633 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I headspace my bottle neck stuff out .002 for my bolt guns and .003 for semi-auto stuff.  you need a good headspace gauge though... no a "go/no-go" gauge.  Those are useless to anyone that trying to do quality work for long range shooting


Yep, RCBS Precison Mic is great for that.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:53 | 4147365 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

I like Redding competition dies.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:08 | 4147429 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

I have an LNL AP and a SS Lee Classic.  Both suit me fine.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:29 | 4146972 10mm
10mm's picture

Get a Mosin or two. They go bang and scope em out. Ammo still fairly cheap. Some come with scope, but $$$$.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 18:47 | 4147785 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Reloading gear for me.


Good luck getting components, as they are as hard to come by as loaded

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:54 | 4154452 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

I'm having fits trying to find H1000 or Retumbo powder right now.....   I sure hope that loosens up a bit soon.  I still have powder on the shelf but, I don't like shooting much when I can't replace it.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:04 | 4146811 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yes.  Nothing hard to understand about why 34 times as many Americans (inc. Bearing Guy) would be more in the marketplace to buy a gun vs. Obamacare.

I think I know my Christmas present: a .308!

If you go bolt,(u need a med to semi LR) get Momma to buy you a Rem 700 SS 5R Milspec,1/2" out of the box and you will not have to spend ten minutes cleaning it after breaking it in(20-25rds,SS tube),5 lands n grooves.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:26 | 4146958 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Bolt.  I am looking at a Springfield, for about $1600.  Then add a scope.  Alas, my wife won't buy it for me, that one is on me.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:29 | 4146981 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I also suggest a model 700 in a magnum action.  Worst case scenario you can get into a custom barrel, bedding, trigger, etc. if you need more accuracy and the amount of aftermarket parts are unrivaled.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:03 | 4147355 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Not bad advice. 

I have a custom 300wm in a 700 action... McMillan A3 stock, Kreiger 10MTU barrel, jewel trigger, answer muzzle brake, NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56 scope mounted to a Nightforce 20moa rail.... It's NICE!  Of course, it's bedded and the action is blue printed, updated extractor ( Sako? ), H&S bottom metal etc. etc. etc.

My other rifles I built on actions like Stiller ( which are 700 type  actions except built to a bit better standard )

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:59 | 4147613 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I have a custom 300wm in a 700 action... McMillan A3 stock, Kreiger 10MTU barrel, jewel trigger, answer muzzle brake, NightForce NXS 5.5-22x56 scope mounted to a Nightforce 20moa rail.... It's NICE!  Of course, it's bedded and the action is blue printed, updated extractor ( Sako? ), H&S bottom metal etc. etc. etc.


WHY the added expense for a muzzle break with that hunk of steel?,must be LR Prone only.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 18:21 | 4147656 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Yeah, I mostly shoot it from a bipod... 500yds on out but mostly at 1000yds.  It's a pussycat to shoot all day long with a brake and, it's a nail driver.  We throw 4" skeet out on the 1000yd berm and blast them on a good day without too much fishtailing wind.  Of course at 1000yds a 4" skeet is not an easy target but, it's doable when the weather cooperates.

208gr Amax over 75.5gr of H1000 kissing the lands seems to do the trick.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 18:22 | 4147698 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Good load, and the AMAX is GTG for a 1k, easily.For 1k I prefer using a .308, so much easier on the barrel life,I wouldn't waste a 300 tube for 500yd shots, not when a .308 will drive tacks there all day.You use the 5R set up, or something different,the 5R series is so darn easy to clean,(and fast) I do not know why anyone would use any other.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 17:54 | 4154314 whirling tword ...
whirling tword freedom's picture

Yeah, that AMAX will stay supersonic to about 1600-1800yds with that load ( depending on your elevation... it has a .649 ballistic coefficient and launches at about 2900fps ).  308 will get to 1k - 1200 with the right bullets.  175gr match king or, I prefer the 178gr amax.  Super easy on the barrel.. you should get 5k from a well maintained 308 bbl.  I usually get between 2k and 3k out of my 300wm barrels.  I change them out when they open up to 1moa.  I didn't opt for a 5R barrel this time but, maybe next time.  I've heard some really like the 5R barrels.   The 375 CheyTac will shoot a 350gr copper monolithic solid at about 3250fps from the muzzle and get out to about 2900yds at sea level supersonic and much further if you go up in elevation.   YOu want to have some fun... set up a 10" plate at a mile ( 1760yds ) on a day without heavy wind and see if you can hit it 3 times in a row.  :))

Of course you can shoot heavier bullets from a bolt rifle but, I have decided to go with semi-auto rifles for both 223 and 308... then bolt guns for 300wm and 375 CheyTac.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:21 | 4146990 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:36 | 4146655 WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

@ACP agree 100%!
Can remember enquiring on another thread a few months back but missed your response if any.
Did you come by your good looks from your mother or father's side?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:18 | 4146567 Pooper Popper
Pooper Popper's picture

vallerie jarret is a smelly cunt!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:22 | 4146584 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Independently and on top of being a communist, antiamerican, corrupt Chicagoland crony capitalist and ruthless pol.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:33 | 4146630 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

"The Obama Whisperer"

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:43 | 4146705 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

She will have fewer places to hide from the guillotine, as she doesn't have the 'right of return' (fleeing).

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:11 | 4146882 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Given she's merely a useful idiot, "they" could care less.

Remember, the world is filled with "Al Qaeda #2" wannabes, as nature abhors a vacuum.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:17 | 4146560 Agent P
Agent P's picture

I own eight guns and zero Obamacares...not quite 34x, but I'm working on it. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:22 | 4146581 Mineral-Invest
Mineral-Invest's picture

8 is infinitely more than 0. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:25 | 4146596 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Actually, it's 8x infinitely more, because 1 is also infinitely more than 0, and 8 is 8x greater than 1. If you don't believe me, just count to infinity eight times, and you'll see I'm correct. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:29 | 4146611 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

on a long enuf timeline....

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:56 | 4146766 akak
akak's picture

I am exactly 18,00F,UCK,YOU times more interested in buying a gun than in buying or complying with Obama(Don't)Care.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:27 | 4146608 fonestar
fonestar's picture

14 guns so far... trying to cover all of my bases in terms of calibers but I'm still missing .223, .30-30, 12ga, .300 Win, .338.

My local politburo (the Communist Brainwashing Corporation) tells me this fact does not make me very Canadian.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:39 | 4146682 Agent P
Agent P's picture

How did you manage to get to 14 without a 12ga and a .223?  That has to be some kind of record. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:48 | 4146740 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"How did you manage to get to 14 without a 12ga and a .223?  That has to be some kind of record."


My silver and Bitcoin addiction has left me shooting a lot of rimfire.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:18 | 4146931 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

When push comes to shove, guns are probably easier to trade than gold.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 19:24 | 4147751 DosZap
DosZap's picture

How did you manage to get to 14 without a 12ga and a .223?  That has to be some kind of record. 


Not to mention the 308/7.62x51 NATO.The most versatile all around rifle round ever made IMHO.(and as accurate as you are).Need to have at least one of every NATO caliber, ammo avilablity is #1 on the books.


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:40 | 4146686 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Unfortunately some of us don't have any guns any longer. That fateful boat trip involved all my PMs plus all my firearms to protect me from the ZHers that would try to take my PMs. And then the horrible accident took them all. The rest of my guns and PMs got bartered for hookers and drugs. Don't tell me wife.

You braggarts on your guns do remember that NSA is reading everything, don't you?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:44 | 4146719 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

There is really an epidemic of boating accidents in this country....

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:56 | 4146783 keninla
keninla's picture

We need to ban all unsafe boats. there must be a gov. agency for that right?


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:27 | 4146964 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Multiple, one for state, one for federal and if the cities have large lakes, they should have one too.  Oh and any large businesses that have their headquarters near lakes should have an agency as well.  Especially businesses related to Silver/Gold and guns

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:45 | 4146724 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Me too.  No great loss because guns scare me.  They go bang and are real loud.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:53 | 4146774 Agent P
Agent P's picture

In that case, I hope your wife doesn't work for the NSA. 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:08 | 4146855 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"You braggarts on your guns do remember that NSA is reading everything, don't you?"


Reading is a wonderfully relaxing pastime.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:13 | 4146894 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Unfortunately some of us don't have any guns any longer. That fateful boat trip involved all my PMs plus all my firearms to protect me from the ZHers that would try to take my PMs. And then the horrible accident took them all. The rest of my guns and PMs got bartered for hookers and drugs. Don't tell me wife.

You braggarts on your guns do remember that NSA is reading everything, don't you?


Certainly,just like they know your full of shit.(PS: don't think they give a rats ass).

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:58 | 4147135 Blano
Blano's picture

Personally, I WANT them to read about how armed to the teeth we are.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 18:26 | 4147708 Freddie
Freddie's picture

+100 Northern neighbor or cousin.

I do not watch TV, because it is all shit like Hollywood.  

I do not think many Americans posting here have had the pleasure of ever watching CBC or Canadian Broadcasting System.   It makes the white self loathing lefties on the BBC or CNN look like hard core conservatives or libertarians.  They are very smug as well.  Canada is beautiful, the people (most of them) are great but the CBC is one of the worst.

Stalin would be proud.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:34 | 4146641 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Two, in the market for a third.  Guns that is, not ObamaCares!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:22 | 4146561 1000yrdstare
1000yrdstare's picture

Unfortunately I lost all of my firearms in a boating accident......

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:19 | 4146562 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

7.62 FTMFW!!!!

I would actually sign up for Obambacare if they were giving a free brick of .22 when you enroll.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:25 | 4146592 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

My partner signed up here in NY, given that her premium went down $340 a month to ~$400 even after choosing a far superior to what she had Platinum plan...

You can buy quite a few bricks for that...

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:31 | 4146614 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Any word on the deductable amounts?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:39 | 4146683 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

She is checking now, but it is lower than her previous plan. When she gets back to me I will post the details....

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:57 | 4146787 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Your name isn't "Nate", is it?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:42 | 4147049 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:00 | 4147144 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Did you even catch the reference to being Nate?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:09 | 4147186 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Why, should I have?

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 18:32 | 4147729 Freddie
Freddie's picture

You may want to make sure it covers Chlamydia and scabies.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 23:42 | 4148703 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Does it make you feel better to take cheap shots against other peoples women? Do you even have a woman?

Now, why don't you go off into a corner and quietly fist yourself. Put the gag in first though so you won't wake your mommie...


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:42 | 4146700 Hubbs
Hubbs's picture

And you just had to ruin her New York Minute by mentioning deductibles.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:31 | 4147275 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

And I will ruin your Tea Party moment by telling you that there are $4,250 less...

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:31 | 4147276 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

$4,250 less....


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 18:28 | 4147714 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Any word on the deductable amounts?


Yes, OFF the frigging scale!!!!!!!.Paying prems monthly,add the deductible you are screwed,blued tatooed.NO One unless you have tons of subsidy or are one of the fortunate charity cases can hope to afford ANY of the plans, and live a normal life.

When I saw the 3 tiers, I about shite me breeches!!!!!!!!.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:42 | 4146676 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

What you fail to understand is that what is good for New York is not good for Indiana.  Where you may get better coverage for less, we are getting worse coverage for more. And, to top it off, the local hospitals are not excepting the Zero care plans.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:42 | 4146701 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

I work for a grea temployer here in the Hoosier state. If that asshole Obama tries to take away our good insurance, won't be pretty.

It took me exactly five days to get a handgun carry permit here, from application with the sheriff to permit coming in my mailbox. They need to remember that Indiana is a lot like Texas...

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:48 | 4146745 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Take it up with your Health Insurance Cos.. They define what is available...

Her new plan is not a "catastrophic plan" either..

She was getting ripped off with her previous plan... 

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:03 | 4146822 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"Take it up with your Health Insurance Cos.. They define what is available".

That can not be further from the truth. Insurance companies have to priovide coverage that meets Zero care's guidelines. And I'm telling you my costs have tripled, and I am getting far less coverage. We also work for a living so subsidies are right out.


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:08 | 4146858 DosZap
DosZap's picture

You sir are correct only a select FEW get deals, the majority is SCREWED.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:38 | 4147028 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Denniger had a really good video with that Greg Hunter who interviews Dr. Jim Willie all the time.  Denniger obviously hates ObamaCare but he said if they got the insurance cartel out of healthcare (after ObamaCare dies), it would be much cheaper.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:53 | 4147105 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Prove it... No fucking way your costs are tripled for less coverage... 

Here is a fine example of the bullshit being spread about costs:

Her plan was a POS....

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:59 | 4147141 akak
akak's picture

It's kind of funny to see anyone here on ZH shilling for Obama(Don't)Care.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:08 | 4147180 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I ain't shilling, but I ain't swallowing BS either from rabid paleolibertarians either...

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:45 | 4147220 akak
akak's picture


"Rabid paleolibertarians"

Do "paleolibertarians" come before or after the proterolibertarians in the fossil record? And presumably being invertebrates, how did they ever manage to become rabid?

And where do the archeaolibertarians fit into the picture?

Damn, it would be so much easier to just be an Obamaphilic creationist.


Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:30 | 4147242 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You can say whatever you want about me, but don't ever call me a fucking liar. I am one of the few people here who have given you the benefit of the doubt..... Until now. You have proven that you are nothing more than an ideological shill pandering for the administration and this fascist legislation.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:34 | 4147289 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Ideological shill??? Tres riche...

No, I tend to call out the ideological shills here that parrot intellectually bankrupt clowns like Rothbard and his ilk...

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:51 | 4147317 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'll give you this, you sure do have the DNC talking points down.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 16:56 | 4147381 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

With statements like this from today, it would seem that Sarah Palin has her talking points down too:

I love America but as long as Obamacare is the law, every time I need to visit the doctor or buy medicine, I'm just gonna head across the Alaska border to Canada. At least Canada has the kind of efficient, cost-effective health care that conservatives can support


Seriously, I couldn't make this shit up if I tried...

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 17:05 | 4147409 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Quite frankly, I don't give a flying fuck about Sarah Palin and what she spews out of her mouth. She is nothing more than a money grubbing spot light whore. IMHO.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 23:09 | 4148583 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

BTW, I am only recounting what my mate did and what she found...

The website was a fucking disaster and NY is one of the better ones from what I gather...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:11 | 4150710 Freddie
Freddie's picture

If she likes her dribble cup, she can keep her dribble cup.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:16 | 4146920 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Take it up with your Health Insurance Cos.. They define what is available...

Her new plan is not a "catastrophic plan" either..

She was getting ripped off with her previous plan... 



Catastrophic plans are history under OSCREWUCARE.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:49 | 4147078 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Neither plan is/was catastrophic.....

She was gettting bent over before...

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:41 | 4147048 SilverCoinLover
SilverCoinLover's picture

As a fellow Hoosier I can verify that this is true.

I actually registered for Obamacare, hoping I could get a modest discount with the subsidy, and got approved on Oct 10th, but it says I may be eligible for one of the Indiana health plans. The site said they would forward my application electronically to them. Now I already knew at the time I wasn't eligible for an Indiana plan, as you have to be without any insurance for at least six months, and I have insurance now. Five weeks later...still no reply from Indiana! I called them and "it's still being processed" they say.

What a f***ing system!

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:41 | 4146697 2bit Hoarder
2bit Hoarder's picture

I'm sure 99% of those receiving subsidies are very happy with obamacare.  those of us who are net tax payers however, who are giving up 50% of our income (by the time you run the full gauntlet of taxation), it only goes up.  My premium is going up 50%, my deductible per claim tripled, my annual max quadrupled.

at this point, including the medicaid expansion and the individual market, a minimum of 95% of those who have enrolled are getting it for free (the vast majority) or subsidized.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:49 | 4146752 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I call bullshit....

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 14:55 | 4146779 akak
akak's picture

Yes, Obama(Don't)Care is indeed bullshit.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:28 | 4146970 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

^--- True that.

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:44 | 4147059 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I agree...

I was calling bullshit on his claims....

Tue, 11/12/2013 - 15:07 | 4146851 rpboxster
rpboxster's picture

subsidized price, right?  what's the price for people with a job?

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