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Markets In Turmoil - Stocks Sliding As Bitcoin Tops $400

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With a shiny red ballon dog selling for $58 million, perhaps it was time to take a little profit in the equity exuberance. S&P futures are down 9 points from last night's close - which in the new normal is considerable (sadly) - with no macro data headlines this morning to spark a move, we will be watching JPY (which for now is rallying awkwardly) for signs of ignition. Meanwhile, as the USD flatlines (despite dispersion in FX), Bitcoin just toppped $400 for the first time ever - doubling in the last two weeks. Precious metals are up modestly; treasury yields are limping lower; and European equities (and sovereign bonds) are having another tough day.

 

S&P Futures an odd shade of green (called red we hear) this morning...

 

 

Bitcoin tops $400...

 

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Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:28 | 4149386 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

JP Morgan has naked long positions in bitcoin. IT'S MANIPUALTED I TELL YOU!!!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:31 | 4149401 CH1
CH1's picture

You forgot the Sarc tag, but that's pretty funny.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:34 | 4149410 CH1
CH1's picture

I guess the Chinese are turning on to BTC.

Could be fun.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:37 | 4149414 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

As one Philipino said to another...

'Now where's my fucking computer... oh ...hang on... maybe I can use this gold bracelet?...'

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:37 | 4149429 flacon
flacon's picture
IRS Seizes $35,000 From Law-Abiding Businessman Simply Because He Made Cash Deposits

http://www.offthegridnews.com/2013/11/12/irs-seizes-35000-from-law-abiding-businessman-simply-because-he-made-cash-deposits/

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:46 | 4149446 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

and as another Philipino said to another

'er wadda ya mean fuck off, this laptop's worth a fucking fortune, trust me... er, you got a plug?'

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:51 | 4149702 foodisgood
Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:56 | 4149723 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Thanks, I like the smell of FUD in the morning!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:53 | 4149965 aerojet
aerojet's picture

It's not FUD--it has every aspect of an epic scam.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:20 | 4150094 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Problem is: aerojet. They'll fucking scream for you to jump in, but never let you know that's it's time to get out. Not one peep.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:31 | 4150481 fonestar
fonestar's picture

...and when Bitcoin takes a breather and retraces the $300 level idiots like yourself will come out in force proclaiming "the end of Bitcoin".

 

Keep the lulz coming please!!

 

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:06 | 4150794 tsx500
tsx500's picture

right on !     only, we won't see 300 again.  or 350.    people had their chance after that quick 25%  dump  from 400 .  you snooze, you lose.  he who hesitates, masturbates !   strong bull markets make it very tough to get onboard.   next stop 500 probably within a week.    and , NO , i am NOT Max Keiser !

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:42 | 4150218 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Because you cannot understand how something works does not make it a scam.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:27 | 4151122 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

His claim that it's an 'epic scam' makes it clear to all that he understands exactly how it works.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:28 | 4151124 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:29 | 4151126 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:30 | 4149892 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> IRS Seizes $35,000

A few years ago, five or eight or so, I was put through holly hell by US and Bermudian customs over doing a cash deal.   The day after the deal closed customs agents were all over my ass.  Obviously they had even been using listening devices. 

I had done a number of cash deals in the past with no real problem.  I would take the cash, and the buyer, down to my bank, make the deposit, and get cashiers checks for the seller.  In this case, when I contacted the seller I was instructed to pass the cash along as they would prefer the cash.

Of course, if tax evasion was my motive, I could have taken my share in cash and paid my salesman (woman in this case) with cash and been theoretically Scott free.  I immediately deposited my part into my escrow account, transferred it to my operating account and paid my saleswoman with a company check.  That is what saved my ass from jail, but not 1.5 years of torment.   My female salesperson, that bitch, did her very best to throw me under the bus on the deal but I was bus proof.

The Bermudian government folks tried to force me to to to Bermuda to testify.  I finally had to hire an attorney to get them off of my ass.

I followed the case for several years.  The defendant ended up getting off not guilty but not before having his possessions thoroughly trashed and made worthless. 

Even though I was aware of how to do cash deals legally, that experience put them into the "not worth the hassle" category. 

I don't have a very fond opinion of government folks there to "help" me.

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:20 | 4151085 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

You should have used bitCon, that way .gov would have known right away what was going on and if need be they would SilkRoad you or not fuck with.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:47 | 4149685 CH1
CH1's picture

As one Philipino said to another...

Maybe you can move to a likely disaster area, where you will finally be proven right.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:42 | 4149926 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

You don't move to a likely disaster area dick head. They come to you, like it or not and when you least expect them.

and if you've no electric in your plug when they do you're pretty fucked with bitcoin aren't you?

There's a reason why gold has been money for 5,000 years isn't there. Nice to know I'm finally proven right though...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:55 | 4149971 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

And how did that Filipino do with debit card transactions or getting some cash out the bank after the typhoon?

You use armageddon as your scenario to slam BTC then pat yourself on the back? Thanks for the laugh.

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:04 | 4150011 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Surely you can't be that fucking stupid. What do you have round your finger that's always valuable?

Most people have a gold ring or something but let me guess, you've got bitcoin? Lucky, lucky you. Really came up trumps when the chips were down didn't it?

Why don't you go buy some tulips, they were valuable once too you know...

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:44 | 4150533 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

And in a desaster area you pay a goldring for a case of water bottles, how smart is that?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:50 | 4150583 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Methinks you are missing the point.

 

If my home is in ruins around me, I can probable get to my safe in a couple of days.  I guess I would have pulled some PMs out to get me through the next few days.

But in the same way, my bitcoin wallet is on a little USB card that I can put in a plastic bag and carry with me as well.

In a few days I am sure I could either get to a computer or talk to someone over the phone (a relative in another part of the country/world because 46% of cel phones are already back up in PI) and they could do the bitcoin transaction for me--convertin into fiat to use on my debit card.

The end of the world scenarios are nice.  But if they happen everywhere, at the same time, it really doesnt matter what you have to get you through the tough time--cash is king and even then it might not be.

Its just another way of looking at the world.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:29 | 4150806 GoldMeUp
GoldMeUp's picture

So how are you going to get to your gold when it's buried under piles of rubble, and you're starving and have to leave town to try to survive.  Yeah, I bet some of the Philipinos who had a hidden gold stash might not be so well off right now.

 

Good thing my bitcoin private keys are replicated all around the world in different data centers.  You could nuke a whole country and I'd still get access to my money.

 

I know gold has advantages too.  They both have advantages and disadvantages.  It's not just a simple thing where gold is superior in every way.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:58 | 4150969 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Show me a single picture of a Philipino citizen buying food with gold.

There isn't one, because food right now exceeds the price of gold. That is what really happens in a disaster.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:56 | 4151276 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Filipino

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:36 | 4149421 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

At this point, let's just assign Pooka shells as the world reserve currency....makes about as much sense as anything else.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:40 | 4149441 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

CH1 is there a way for a neanderthal like me who is used to walking into a store and out with an ounce of silver to buy bitcoin without it being a complicated situation where I don't end up screwing myself? 

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:44 | 4149453 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

no

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:48 | 4149466 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

appreciate the honesty.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:54 | 4149495 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

I'm a neanderthal like you. Basically need to download wallet, password protect it (but need to download separate program to hide your keystrokes while creating said password). Buy bitcoins from exchange. Backup wallet on computer (not hooked up to internet).... I forgot the rest 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:59 | 4149510 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

You forgot the important part, buying requires bank transfers of fiat to the bitCon'er. Anonymous whatever.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:01 | 4149517 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I'm a 36 year old dinasaur.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:10 | 4149547 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

It's a bunch of slick anonymous israeli guys who will pump and dump and then disappear in the middle of the night with ZeroAccountability.

Suckers beware.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:14 | 4149565 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

My main concern going forward is that tech is going to lead the way to all sorts of new things, and mediums of exchange could be one of them. I don't know if it will be bitcoin or something else, but I want a piece of whatever it is.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:34 | 4149638 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

You find a middle man locally who has coins and go to their shop with an anonymous wallet and account that is set up and on an usb drive. You might be able to find a local pawn broker/check cashier who deals in bitcoins but you will pay a nice above spot price for the service. You won't need a bank account but you pay extra for the service. Once you have them in your wallet you can forget about them for awhile if you are using them as an investment. Assume the same for turning coins back into cash or some other medium. You don't have to trade them on exchanges if you don't want to.

http://bitcoin.meetup.com/cities/us/ny/long_island_city/

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:51 | 4149657 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Yes, I do it this way. I have an online store in the deep web where I sell silencing devices, no doc stamps required, no serial numbers, we need hush hush all the way around.

This is the way.

When I go Deep I also 'live off the land'. A high plains drifter.

Over.

One thing, the secret tribal code word for the http://bitcoin.meetup.com groups is 'shalom' and the secret handshake is 'pinky shake'. Goy does not know this.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:53 | 4149713 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yeah, it's really just another ZOG-based conspiracy.  Apparently, the entire world is too stupid to review the code and figure that one out.  Thanks for helping out moron!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:00 | 4149743 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Don't get so touchy pornstar. If you can make it here you can make it anywhere. It's up to you pornstar pornstar.

Selling the currency porn.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:03 | 4149759 fonestar
fonestar's picture

All you have is FUD.  Frankly, your stupid posts and links looks like someone has passed you a list of talking points.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:18 | 4149821 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

This is an old game just new technology involved. The old guys who are not interested in learning the tech should team up with younger guys who know the tech and teach them the game in return for the younger guys executing it with the coins here. It is called passing on knowledge and wisdom the type of education they don't teach you in school. You know kind of how it used to be when shit worked normally. Find a young protege you trust and teach them the game in return for them working the tech end in the new market. You'll learn about the tech by osmosis in the process.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:49 | 4149693 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thanks Dewey. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:29 | 4149889 LuisCypher
LuisCypher's picture

 

 

Go to:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin read the posts and info in the sidebar.
http://bitcoin.org/en/getting-started
This should be enough info to get you started.

Suggested wallets:

Don't use an online web wallet.
For your PC use Multibit, it is secure simple and light.
For your phone use Bitcoin Wallet.

Get them from here: http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:31 | 4149896 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Getting some face time with people locally who do use it is generally a good idea. Just go and ask questions and use that as decider on how you want to proceed. If you like what you see you've also made some networking contacts you can use as jump off points as you delve deeper.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:51 | 4149703 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am willing to work with those who are interested in getting their hands on some Bitcoin (I am personally not selling mine though).

One of the original sign-ups on localbitcoins.com.  100% positive feedback.  And no, I do not recommend Bitcoin for everyone.  At the very least you should be familiar with data backup, programs that use encryption, directory structure, basic security, etc.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:56 | 4149720 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

who do you recommend bitcoin for?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:02 | 4149754 fonestar
fonestar's picture

For people:

1) confident they are not going to be able to make backups and not lose them

2) make a strong private-key, remember it without writing it down or disclosing it to anyone

3) are willing to take personal responsibility for their own wealth (nobody to call if you screw it up)

 

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:24 | 4150045 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

fonz, You can get a payment coupon from bitinstant then take it down to CVS or Walmart and use their Moneygram system to make the transfer.  Set aside an hour or so to get it done.  But first you also to set up a wallet.  blockchain.info is a good place to set it up.  Put in $100 or so.  It's been fun to check my wallet and watch it go full retard.

The initial process of setting up your wallet and getting Bitcoins is a bit cumbersome, but once it's done it's pretty easy to manage and use Bitcoin for purchases.  

Edit: Or just do what Skin says below and I'll fuck off.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:49 | 4150262 Skin666
Skin666's picture

LOL

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:09 | 4149544 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Hi Fonz,

1 ) Go to localbitcoins.com

2 ) Buy bitcoin off seller (USD price will be clearly visible)

3 ) Pay with bank transfer, while bitcoins are in escrow

4 ) Once the seller has received your bank transfer, the coins will be released to your account.

5 ) Transfer bitcoin from account to a hot wallet on blockchain.info, or download bitcoin qt client to your laptop, waith for the blockchain to sync, back up your wallet on a thumb drive, and delete the wallet off your desktop. BULLETPROOF

 

If you like trading, this is the best bitcoin to altcoin exchange atm    mcxnow.com

Bitcoin is already a technological dinosaur. I like to think of bitcoin as the Model T Ford, innovative, mindnumbingly brilliant, revolutionary even, but it will soon be overtaken by the next generation cryptocurrencies.That is the way of the markets

Keeping tabs on crypto will make you a fortune in the next few years...

 

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:19 | 4149580 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Skin thank you very much for that. I really appreciate the instructions.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:24 | 4149600 Skin666
Skin666's picture

No probs.

There is also a blockchain app and a coinbase app for your android or i phone, which you can use as a hot wallet on the move. The best way to understand bitcoin and crypto is by using it. See this for example http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/11/11/video-of-the-day-guy-buys-a-subw...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:49 | 4149697 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Interesting, although he paid a 30% premium at $16.14 for the $12.35 bill.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:27 | 4149606 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Nothing agianst Bitcoin but I'll stick with the tried and true shiny solids at the bottom of the lake.

Can an EMP pulse wipe out Bitcoin?

All this aside, isn't it amazing that people are finding, inventing, ways to keep their money safe? 100 years ago it was a coffee can buried in the back yard.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:32 | 4149634 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> 100 years ago it was a coffee can buried in the back yard.

That still works surprisingly well.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:19 | 4149828 fonestar
fonestar's picture

...until you have to dig it up and send it somewhere.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:35 | 4149649 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

why reject every single thing other than PM's? That was always the thing that concerned me about PM's. The sun rises and sets by them. 

If the tech guys are responsible for innovation and advancement in all fields  I would not want to piss them off by stealing their wealth. Society relies on them and the agricultural field. You don't bit the hand that feeds you and cures you.

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:40 | 4149663 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Not rejecting anything. I looked it over and decided on another direction. I'm not bashing Bitcoins, might be the best thing since sliced bread. but it's not for me, at least not now.  Now I need to get a coffee can.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:45 | 4149680 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I hear you man. I want to hold anything tangible and even some things i can't see if necessary. then the plan is to hold on for as long as I can without having to cough it all back up.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:22 | 4150110 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Not if it isn't stored on magnetic media.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:40 | 4150878 tsx500
tsx500's picture

so, how do you 'hedge' the risk of your bitcoins (stored only on magnetic media) ... do you carry around with you a hard paper physical copy of your btc 'address' ?    or is there another way ?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:48 | 4150566 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Can an EMP pulse wipe out Bitcoin?

If the EMP is big enough to smash all computers in the world, yes.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:56 | 4150630 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

With a minimal investment last week I was able to sell some bitcoins and convert them into a couple of thousand dollars worth of PM.

The world is not all or nothing.  Use the tools at your disposal to get to your goal.

I laugh at the luddites here that figure the markets are going to collapse tomorrow and the emp is going to hit the next day.

Sitting around on a financial site not trying to make money just seems silly to me.  Educate yourselves and work the system.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:47 | 4151230 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

"Can an EMP pulse wipe out Bitcoin?"

Unless it's global,,no. If you're 100% into "shiny solids", I'd be more concerned with atomic tom-foolery that can change other elements into Au. It's been done already, but not cost effective..... yet.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:45 | 4149670 CH1
CH1's picture

CH1 is there a way for a neanderthal like me who is used to walking into a store and out with an ounce of silver to buy bitcoin without it being a complicated situation where I don't end up screwing myself?

Sure!

localbitcoins.com

Meet a guy in a Starbucks, hand him some fiat, receive the BTC on your smartphone before your coffee begins to cool.

Use PGP and it will be anonymous too.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:01 | 4149751 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Sounds a lot like instructions for a suburban drug deal.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:22 | 4149853 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Sure and why not?  Unless of course you are one of those types of libertarians who likes to control, lecture, legislate and moralize on what others can spend their money on and put in their own bodies?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:51 | 4149946 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Problem is:
when people abuse a beautiful thing, like the Internet was so many years ago. Then the gaming makes the establishment tighten the noose on everyone and everything. Control will not be lost. Don't believe me? Ask Dread Pirate Roberts.

Bitcoin is the 'total control' cryptocurrency, and TPTB want it in place right now! To crowd out the market so the new breed CC's cannot take hold.

The new breed CC's will natively include http://zerocoin.org and other advancements that will make it really anonymous, and worthy of my time.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:21 | 4150086 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Ah, yes!  Just like they have done such an excellent job of (pumping the price) establishing "total control" over drugs, plants, prostitution, guns, etc, etc , etc hey?

I can't wait for the "total control" of Bitcoins!  If the (average dope) sophisticated investor didn't figure out why it's now considered "too expensive" to mint coins out of zinc, copper and nickel, it should be amusing to watch them try and figure out why the USD now needs to be defended "at all costs" against online math puzzles being freely traded.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:23 | 4150114 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Good night bitCon. Good night.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:29 | 4150144 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Good night"?

 

Hahaha!  Keep dreaming fool because we haven't even gotten started yet!  We were dealing with you idiots back at $25 BTC and we will still be laughing at you at $5,000 BTC!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZieKYr_eDI

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:02 | 4150352 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

so- serious question- is bitcoin currency or a speculative investment? 

Both?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:20 | 4150438 fonestar
fonestar's picture

At this point in time it is both.  As long as the majority of people still think in terms of Dollars, Yen, Pounds, Euro, etc...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:49 | 4150575 Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

Its not currency, its money - basically money cant be created at will, currency can.  It is speculative - because the risks are very hard to estimate - but its been doing extremely well.

 

As money is used both for exchange, and also as a way to store the products of labor - then I would say demand is being driven more by store of value as an asset than as a medium of exchange.  However, the rising value and popularity of BTC is adding new vendors every day, there are simply more and more ways to exchange it for goods and services - and the trend is definitely a nice exponential curve here, so the time frames in terms of adoption and increase in value are probably going to be shorter than most expect.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:27 | 4150795 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

It's a payment protocol that uses it's own internal accounting units to transfer value through a decentralized, open network. 

Rather than thinking of it as a new kind of digital gold or some other kind of asset class, think of it as an internet-based value storage and transfer method.

Ultimately the value of a bitcoin is based on the total value of the transactions that the protocol can support, on the value the system can add to the overall economy.

Compare email to regular mail, compare HTTP to print catalogs, brochures, fliers and books. Both of those are internet protocols that have completely transformed the areas of society they were developed for. People that support Bitcoin see in it the same potential for transforming money and payments.

And the current Bitcoin system doesn't even yet implement the advanced features of the protocol (contracts, escrows, time-stamps, multi-party transfers, etc). Right now Bitcoin is like dialing up with a 14.4 modem to pull down text-only email through a shell account -- that is to say, at the earliest days of it's developement. 

Given that there will only be about 21 million bitcoins units, given the early stage of development and the massive capabilities of the protocol, people are bullish about its future and it's value against fiat money is going up.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:45 | 4150901 tsx500
tsx500's picture

great explanation ... thanx

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 13:02 | 4154493 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

As the Winklevii told to the anchorman: "the fact you don't get it is because the opportunity exist"

 

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 13:02 | 4154494 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

As the Winklevii told to the anchorman: "the fact you don't get it is because the opportunity exist"

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:53 | 4150948 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

XenoTwiddler is back!

How do you type when you have your other hand occupied? Must be a learned skill.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:22 | 4149587 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

@ CH1  <<<<<< I guess the Chinese are turning on to BTC >>>>>>

China has capital controls and for the Chinese this is the only avenue for exporting their wealth. They are hoarders more than they are gamblers.

But....in this case they are doing both at the same time and as of this moment they have succeeded in both.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:37 | 4149426 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

Didn't think I needed it ;)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:51 | 4150938 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Exponential Regression Analysis says that tracing out the current curve implies prices of $1,000+ by December 4th, 2013. There is also the probability of that not being anywhere the final peak of this mega-rally.

If you want to check the math, pump in the log(Daily Closes) starting at 10/25, I'm getting the following:

Slope: 0.021213762 Intersection: 2.20218832

Price = A * R^X

R Coefficient: 1.050059147

A Coefficient: 159.2899295

X = number of days from start of 10/25

38 days to 12/04/13, price on curve: $1,019.32 (+/- 10 - 20 bucks volatility variance)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:34 | 4151155 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

I've got a better formula for you.

bitCon value = 0.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:36 | 4151162 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

theres another approach here based on monthly averages rather than daily closes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=322058.0

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:34 | 4149412 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Let me guess: You were able to spot their naked long - when they dropped their shorts, right?  ;-)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:50 | 4149474 Croesus
Croesus's picture

No...that would be their "naked short". C'mon, this is bankers we're talking about, not men. Bankers screw the world, because their "uncomfortable with who they are"...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:43 | 4149450 bob_stl
bob_stl's picture

My congrats to those who got it early, but the problem with bitcoin now is that a better easier to use form might come along that makes it the Myspace of crypto currency.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:00 | 4149515 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Someone told me it was http://litecoin.org

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:00 | 4149745 oddjob
oddjob's picture

over?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:11 | 4149787 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Quite right. Sloppy.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:15 | 4149811 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The issue is mining productivity...  for J6P, bitcoin mining is out of the question given the larger ASIC players.  However, alternatives exist that still function best on generic gpu processing, e.g. litecoin, which is the front runner of the alternative crowd.  I'll probably start mining litecoins depending on black friday/cyber monday deals on videocards...  The rising tide of bitcoin is going to cause a frenzy for all the other shitbird crytpocurrencies.  I think the trick is to not put all your eggs in one basket and periodically convert your cryptocurrency-> central bank fiat-> tangible assets or, directly into tangible assets if you can arrange such.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:44 | 4149451 BadDog
BadDog's picture

The more people hate it, the higher it goes. Wait until they try to ban it.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:29 | 4149888 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I can't wait until they try and ban it!  Not just because it will send the price into the stratosphere but because people will see government for what it truly is... a bunch of outdated, powerless, useless shitheads that can't do anything right!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:31 | 4150155 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Thats sounds great. It really does. But you also stated everyone could lose their ass if the big exchanges were taken over. Powerless doesn't sound right if the authorities step in and seize the money. Did I misunderstand you?

And where are the gold arguments against Bitcoin that I heard for years at $300, $500, $700, $850, $1000, etc....that nobody would buy it becuase it was too expensive now  and nobody could afford it?

 

 

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:52 | 4150278 fonestar
fonestar's picture

So just avoid the exchanges if you are scared of them.  I do, but mainly because they are too much hassle.  Whats to stop people from meeting in person and swaping paper currency for Bitcoin?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:53 | 4150283 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

BOP the measured value of bitcoin means nothing to me as pretty much does the price of gold. The main obstacle for me is the definition of physical possession. On one hand bitcoin trumps gold in giving you the ability to Simon Black it all over the world without bringing a heavy nap sack. On the other hand gold trumps bitcoin in that for the most part someone is going to have to get past me to take possession of my property, whereas with bitcoin it seems possible that one day it's just gone. I am trying to get past that thought and give this a shot.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:32 | 4150491 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

fonz, some of these guys never answer my direct questions about Bitcoin. Its always dodging and evading real concerns people might have holding it as a store of value. 

FWIW, I'm all in favor of competing currencies, and always have been.  

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:39 | 4150510 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Fonz, let me jest a bit: The blockchain of Bitcoins is not very big, so it could probably engraved into a  gold-ingot, thereby solving both problems at once.  ;)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:18 | 4149575 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

< ---- No thanks, I'll stick to AU and AG

< ---- I'm converting all my AU and AG into BTC

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:41 | 4149665 Saro
Saro's picture

<---- I'm playing it smart and keeping both PMs and BTC.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:40 | 4152774 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Averaging in my Au purchases at about $150 an ounce due to BTC booming. Downvoted you anyway.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:30 | 4149389 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Have you heard about the new Bitcoins from Holland?

Word is they're shaped like tulips!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:32 | 4149402 CH1
CH1's picture

Try LEARNING something for a change.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:01 | 4149522 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

That was funny. You gotta give him + 1 for humor.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:40 | 4149664 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Is there an BTC exchange in Papua New Guinea?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:04 | 4149766 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Typing Port Moresby in localbitcoins.com is only showing traders in Australia :(   If you are able to wire funds to a large exchange like Bitstamp or MtGox, you'll be good to go (after their annoying identification process)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:58 | 4149984 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

.gov needs to know who YOU are.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:53 | 4150290 fonestar
fonestar's picture

.gov is a joke and I am laughing at them.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:51 | 4150591 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

If you are still want to get in, you are in bad luck there.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:33 | 4149405 new game
new game's picture

lol shaped like helmets-take a nice long suck-creamy in the middle...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:33 | 4149407 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> they're shaped like tulips!

The one year gold chart is shaped surprisingly like road kill.

 

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:35 | 4149416 new game
new game's picture

your looking at it wrong - invert or stand on your head...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:38 | 4149424 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Now I know what to get him for Christmas. He doesn't seem to like anything else....not that I've heard anyway.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:55 | 4149490 new game
new game's picture

I grabbed the knife! No small feat, as i was rotating! Now what? I have no special skills, just an averge guy with a knife in my hand. I was thinking to send it to wall street.  On second thought, I think I will hang on to it, it could come in handy,

regards.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:46 | 4149460 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Gold bugs take heart: at 10 oz = 1 BTC, shipping physical starts to become competitive with Bitcoin's transaction fees. Ride the wave.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:57 | 4150319 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes, because time is going to go backwards.  Generation X, Y and Z are going to happy waiting for the Western Union wagon to roll into town with your gold bars.  It only takes ol' Rusty with his trusty sawed off a few weeks to come into town supposing there's no Apache in them hills.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:01 | 4152116 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Just saying, in a world where Bitcoin has destroyed fiat, gold will still be around.  At a certain point it may make business sense to use gold for transactions.  An ad-hoc gold to btc peg may emerge and you won't see this happening so often.  

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:43 | 4152787 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

I've heard that you can get gold for Bitcoins, I've gotten quite a few for 10% of what you guys are paying full fiat price for. You can put your tu lips on my turd cutter.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:30 | 4149393 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture


US Dollar And Gold This Week - Taper Talk And Who's Gonna Make The Walk

We have quite an interesting print in US Dollar today - with all Taper assured talk from both side of the FED's mouth, US Dollar has ended with a big hesitation question mark. We do not know what to take here with all ongoing market manipulation, but would like to point it out and will be watching this week action in USD very closely.

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/us-dollar-and-gold-this-week-taper-t...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:32 | 4149404 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

MOAR FREE MONEY OR DIE!!!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:55 | 4150617 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Yes, please manipulate moar and moar and moar. Bitcoin is the credibility-meter of this. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:31 | 4149398 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I'm sure the script is being rehearsed right now by various FED members to walk all equity indexes green by close....it IS the only thing that matters after all.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:34 | 4149411 6th of May
6th of May's picture

Bitcoin...<3

The problem is that... well, somehow i think it's doomed, and somehow not.

 

1st: Bitcoin...not printing money (yes) but what if people accept Litecoin PPCoin and Anoncoin too?

2nd: If Bitcoin was traded like a normal currency It would not rise so much...and therefore its no currency, just another short term safe haven

 

I like to believe in Bitcoin... let's just see how it works out

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:38 | 4149431 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I say we move to Pooka shells for world reserve currency, at least you can make stylish hip necklaces and such with them.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:14 | 4149800 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Mbbe a resurgence of David Cassidy and the Partridge Family hits?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:30 | 4149621 Skin666
Skin666's picture

Currency competition is part of any free market. The marginal utility of the coins to consumers will ultimately decide which coins survive and which do not.

For example Worldcoin has a confirmation time of approx less than 1 minute! Faster than a credit card transaction. This might be traded during the week. At the weekend you might want to convert it to bitcoin, or mincoin or primecoin or whatever. Or alternatively you could trade using crypto, and then buy gold and silver each month, or whatever...

This technology is absolutely fascinating!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:43 | 4150230 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I agree it is fascinating. I also know we do not have free markets.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 13:29 | 4150472 Saro
Saro's picture

The first step to creating a truly free market it to wrest control of the money supply away from the state.  Once that happens, they'll lose control in short order.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:00 | 4150652 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

You can't compare a credit card charge with a real cash transaction. Try to transfer cash from New York to Hong Kong within 1 hour without any counter party risks and limitations (including bank closing hours) and at virtually no cost.

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:38 | 4149654 Sonic the porcupine
Sonic the porcupine's picture

That is an interesting point, would the creation of alternatives to bitcoin (such as litecoin and countless others), be akin to money-printing?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 14:19 | 4150750 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

How did alternatives to gold work out?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:38 | 4149655 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

My personal belief is once bitcoin goes mainstream the next one to rocket up in price will be litecoin as the investor types jump in looking for yield in an interest rate poor environment who don't want to gamble in the rigged casino. Once bitcoin is 'proven' in the eyes of the great unwashed it will be apparent which crypto-currencies also will pass the sniff tests at that point and the money will flow accordingly looking for yield.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:18 | 4149826 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Exactly...  if you're looking for a chance for appreciation, then I'm not sure you pick the security that's already on everyone's radar...  I guess if all the hedge funds hold bitcoin then it might be different, but I digress.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:34 | 4149413 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Yet another bitcon article -lol

Bitcon is a fad and a momo trading vehicle... nothing more.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 15:06 | 4150999 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@GrinandBearit

Sure, like electric lights were called a "fad" when they were first introduced. Sounds like most technologies get mocked in the beginning, cars, telephone, phonograph...

But keep your head firmly in the sand, so your government can get full access to your complicit cornhole. You sycophant.

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:48 | 4152805 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

I hear those moving picture shows and horseless carriages are fads too.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:35 | 4149415 gdgenius
gdgenius's picture

How is Bitcoin not just another fiat currency?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:37 | 4149425 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

The amount of bitcoins is limited by the algorythm - meaning you cannot just produce unlimited BCs.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:42 | 4149448 gdgenius
gdgenius's picture

Yeah. Except if you can "make" one you can "make" a trillion. We're all just supposed to trust the anonymous guy and his algo?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:56 | 4149489 balanced
balanced's picture

That is the most ignorant statement that I've heard in a while. Seriously man, spend at least a few minutes learning about something before posting comments about it.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:11 | 4149788 gdgenius
gdgenius's picture

Why is it ignorant? It's physically impossible to make more? Or we're just supposed to trust that the outstanding quantity of this thing that was created OUT OF NOTHING in the first place by somebody who doesn't even use his real name will forever remain unchanged? K. No thanks.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:39 | 4150195 AugmentedFourth
AugmentedFourth's picture

You can download and examine the source code for yourself here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin

Any changes to the source occur out in the open and must be communally adopted.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 12:33 | 4150164 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Sure, but you should spend at least a few minutes thinking about how the NSA was able to place backdoors into open cryptography algorithms. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 17:24 | 4151713 AugmentedFourth
AugmentedFourth's picture

They didn't place the backdoors into the open-source algorithms themselves. They placed backdoors into closed-source IMPLEMENTATIONS of them.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 09:58 | 4149508 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

People were saying that since BTC was worth $0.01.  Is everyone going to wait until its worth 1000's before they say maybe BTC has some real potential here?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:07 | 4149536 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Plus he's wrong. The max_coin value in the header file can easily be changed from 21 million to whatever they want to change it to.

That is such a joke.

Over.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 10:45 | 4149677 Saro
Saro's picture

The network (i.e. everyone else) would reject all transactions from the modified protocol.

So yes, you could grant yourself a hojillion bitcoins, but you couldn't ever trade them to anyone on the bitcoin network. So . . . yay?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 11:08 | 4149771 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Einstein, a group could proceed with a new max_coin value.

That group could be quite large, YOU have no control over that.

MOB RULES. You lose. Devaluation, plain and simple. POOR design, the architect should be shot.

Over.

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