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Peter Schiff: "Gold Is Being Undermined By The Fantasy Of A US Recovery"

Tyler Durden's picture


With gold down 10 of the last 11 days (until today), Peter Schiff tells CNBC that this temporary downswing is due to "the fantasy of a US recovery," that so many actually believe and thus, due to this 'recovery' the Fed will taper back its quantitative easing. "It's not gonna happen," Schiff explains, "we have a phony recovery," and the Fed will more likely increase the amount of QE in order to sustain it, "which is very bullish for gold." Crucially, Schiff clarifies that he "doesn't think a taper is inevitable," as many believe, "but an end to QE won't happen by the Fed's choice - the market will force them to tread on the brakes as the USD collapses." As we noted earlier, Schiff also believes there is an attempt to do "whatever it takes" to pull the EUR down to maintain the USD - but as today's price action shows, it's not working... "Long-term, the fundamentals have never been better for gold."


Schiff goes on to explain why he believes Yellen's first act will be to raise QE...(which she somewhat confirmed after hours in her early pre-released testimony)



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Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:56 | 4152101 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

CNBC sucks the big green one

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:59 | 4152113 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Believe it or not,
It's floating on air.
I never thought I would BTFATH.
Flying away on a wing and a prayer.
Who could it be?
Believe it or not it's just QE.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:05 | 4152183 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's a good site (, + 1, I gave them 0.01 BTC last night.

Also gave 0.01 BTC as well.  fiatleak was featured here at Zero Hedge the other night.

All BTC I have I got from a donor, I have been trying to "spend" them well...

 I have fiatleak's stream on now, it has been running abou 22 mins so far: 1205 BTC (approx. $482,000 !!), USA now just beating out China as No. 1 (in the few minutes this has been on for me).



I just saw 99.46 BTC cross the wire at 6:40 PM.  That's about $40,000 in one transaction.

As of now, the USA still barely leads China since 6:15 PM US ET.



7:01 PM US ET, a pair of 200 + BTC transactions crossed the wire, that's over $160,000 (total of both)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:51 | 4152460 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Wow. If he thinks gold is down unjustly over the past 2 weeks, he should look at silver. There must be something big they are trying to hide in that market.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:57 | 4152104 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Jesse: COMEX Claims Per Deliverable Ounce Up Again To 62 GLD, MUX, TNR.v, GDX

 Jesse reports that in Fractional Gold Reserve System the leverage has reached the all-time-high of 62 owners per ounce of Gold. With Janet Yellen set for hearing tomorrow we can expect another hit and run Gold accident in the DC area, but so far US Dollar has fallen out of bed today and Gold is holding up at its four weeks low. Where LBMA is going to get the physical Gold for delivery at this level of prices? We doubt that China will accept Bitcoin instead of Gold for its currency reserves any time soon.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:29 | 4152374 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

"Gold is being undermined by the fantasy of a fiat monetary system".


Who are the Fed's shareholders, again?

C'mon. One of you yutes at the NSA has the goods.

Got Balls?

Edit: Bitcoin = faith in very fragile systems.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:24 | 4152105 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Gold, of course, is the best Store of Wealth there is.  Nothing is better.  Store of Wealth is one of the functions of money after all.  But, I have been exploring Bitcoins as a new way to tote around capital (as a Medium of Exchange).  I am a beginner!  But here's what I have learned so far:


"Fun with Bitcoin for Beginners"


New Goldman Sachs Managing Directors please feel free to send me a slice of your new bonuses...:



Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:39 | 4153207 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I may have gotten a donation!

(from transaction details)


from    1B8xP3mHpkbAA......  (truncated, a couple of alphanumerics changed)

Thank you!    :)


Why should I work if I can be an Internet Panhandler?  LOL...  (j/k)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:00 | 4152115 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Consider it a gift.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:06 | 4152131 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Well I watch #GoldRush and I think #GoldRush could be responsible for the undermining.  I mean, I hardly ever see them find any gold and any time they get close something bad happens.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:32 | 4152192 GoldRulesPaperDrools
GoldRulesPaperDrools's picture

`We just have to keep digging!`

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:32 | 4152401 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I prefer to do my gold mining at the LCS (local coin shop).

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:09 | 4152135 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Peter. He intially introduced me to Austrian economics a few years ago. But I have been listinening to him recently call bitcoin fiat money and a ponzi scheme. Even Peter must know that BTC is neither fiat currency (government issued currency made legal tender by government decree) or a ponzi scheme. It is unfortunate to see he has fallen so in love with gold it seems he cannot see BTC is as good as, or even better, store of wealth as sound money as gold or silver are. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:22 | 4152166 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Unfortunately have to agree with you and am frankly very surprised that Schiff doesn't get Bitcoin.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:30 | 4152187 john39
john39's picture

when the shit finally hits the fan, i seriously doubt that bitcoin is going to do anyone much good.  these are not normal times.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:33 | 4152196 GoldRulesPaperDrools
GoldRulesPaperDrools's picture

You can keep your bitcoins, I'll keep my new Ruger .308 AR and suppressor thank you very much. ;)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:37 | 4152209 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Why not have it all?  Diversification...  The Central Bank of DoChenRollingBearing holds gold.  Protected by Kalashinikov and Beretta.  And is experimenting with Bitcoin as a way to move "money" around.

Mobility is worth something.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 23:56 | 4152990 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

how do I collect taxes on a bitcoin transaction again?

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 01:42 | 4153167 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

The same way you collect taxes on anything else: threats of violence, backed by actual violence.

With real estate, art, electronic fiat currencies, equities, bonds, etc, finding the human owner and taxing (or seizing) the asset is now trivial. For PMs, you can simply coerce a full customer list & order history from most PM dealers. Bitcoin is trickier, but clearly not impossible, once you identify and capture the owner (e.g. Dread Pirate Roberts), and apply some rubber hose crypto to get the passphrase.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 09:37 | 4153524 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Dread Pirate Roberts got caught because he got sloppy — gave out his personal gmail address, among other stupid things — not because of anything inherently wrong with Bitcoin.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:38 | 4152211 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

Schiff got that much right, Bitcoins are digital Beanie Babies.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:59 | 4152283 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

There is no difference between the backing of AU and BTC.

BTC is not backed by debt. BTC is backed by an asset. That asset is the algorithmic coding that gives people who use it confidence it meets and will always meet four of the five characteristics of sound money: divisible, durable, portable, scarcity. The fifth characteristic of sound money, value in the mind of the actor, comes from that confidence in the algorithmic coding. 

AU is not backed by debt. AU is backed by an asset. That asset is the atomic coding as defined by natural law that gives people who use AU confidence it meets and will always meet the same four out of five characteristics of sound money I wrote in the above paragraph. It also has the fifth characteristic of sound money for the same reason BTC does. BTC will not collapse when the debt-backed currencies collapse and it is sound money for the very same reasons AU is sound money. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:14 | 4152330 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

John, if you want to cash out of Bitcoin and you have let's say, a million bucks. How do you do that kind of transaction without using a bank?

Serious question, just wondering as I haven't found anyone around here that will answer that question yet.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:27 | 4152375 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That is a very good question, Bay.  I'll ask our bearing supplier in China if they will take BTCs.  If our bearing supplier will take BTC...:

then we are in a whole new ballgame.


(They will not take gold, yet)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:39 | 4152427 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

The same way you would cash out of physical gold or silver, go find a BTC dealer who will exchange it for cash, or if you prefer, pysical gold or silver offline. If you have $1 million to convert I am sure in the free market you will find someone willing and able to service your request. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:48 | 4152451 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Fair enough. Thx. How many Bitcoin dealers are there and where are they at?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:58 | 4152481 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

If you look you can find one. As BTC's popularity grows the demand for this service you request will be met by the free market. That is the beauty of the free market, it creates goods and services to meet the existing needs of consumers. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:01 | 4152489 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Gee, thanks for the canned bullshit answer.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:20 | 4152552 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

You are welcome.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:55 | 4152637 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I have heard Schiff say some decent things about Bitcoin.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:13 | 4152696 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Never mind John, I looked it up myself at this site called "SimplyBTC".

Some real gems in there, like this one,

"We have been trading digital and physical coins throughout Europe and America for some time. This has given us a great knowledge of the best (and more importantly safest) places to get involved with bitcoins. Bitcoins really are the future of digital currency but have been undermined in the past by people hacking and scamming others."

And better yet,

"Want bitcoins but not sure how to get them? Bitcoin mining is not always possible as it can take very expensive equipment and a large electricity bill."

Emphasis mine. Yeah, so keep pulling our chain on the "headaches" on buying and holding physical gold and silver. What a crock of shit.   

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:46 | 4153209 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

If I suddenly have the problem of having to figure out how to trade in a million bucks worth of Bitcoins I'll be a very happy man.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 09:42 | 4153533 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Stay tuned, Bay, my belief being that J_C is right and that Bitcoin is both the future of money and the end of the state.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 23:43 | 4152960 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

Gold is backed by real, authentic, and genuine CAPITAL.  That capital is the sum total effort necessary to extract, smelt, refine, and fabricate it into its final forms.

Gold's supply can only increase as a direct function of human labor, effort and endevour. BTC's supplies rise based on computer clock cycles -  debasement is baked in the cake.

BTC may evolve into a usable currency, but it will never be a timeless, inter-generational preserver of wealth

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 23:50 | 4152980 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

+1 Best comment on the thread.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:18 | 4153184 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

Never is a long time. How many teenagers are buying actual physical coins these days? How many are buying stupid virtual shit for their Farmville farm? Technology changes, people adapt. Physically transferring gold between distant/untrusted parties is expensive, risky, and slow - clearly there is some role for decentralized virtual currencies as an electronic medium-of-exchange. They're better than fiat since the supply growth is publically known upfront.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:16 | 4154209 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

You explanation of the value of gold was outdated a century ago. You probably would explay why the Earth is flat and not shperical and the sun rotate around the Earth

The value of bitcoin is:
1)  The coding of the nodes of the network 
2) the size of the network and its computing power.

To manipulate the network anyone must spend time and resources and the size of the network is so big any manipulation is counterproductive.
Also the network is "intelligent" and could adapt and repel an attack if it is detected.

Hostiles could knock it down, but can not prevent it coming up again in a very short time with a vengeance.
IMHO any attacker could not take down the network for more than a couple of minutes.

Gold market can be manipulated because it is centralized and delivery of gold is costly.
Bitcoin market can not be manipulated so easily because it is not centralized (it is more decentralizing now than before) and delivery of bitcoin is always possible and near always requested.


Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:16 | 4154210 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

You explanation of the value of gold was outdated a century ago. You probably would explay why the Earth is flat and not shperical and the sun rotate around the Earth

The value of bitcoin is:
1)  The coding of the nodes of the network 
2) the size of the network and its computing power.

To manipulate the network anyone must spend time and resources and the size of the network is so big any manipulation is counterproductive.
Also the network is "intelligent" and could adapt and repel an attack if it is detected.

Hostiles could knock it down, but can not prevent it coming up again in a very short time with a vengeance.
IMHO any attacker could not take down the network for more than a couple of minutes.

Gold market can be manipulated because it is centralized and delivery of gold is costly.
Bitcoin market can not be manipulated so easily because it is not centralized (it is more decentralizing now than before) and delivery of bitcoin is always possible and near always requested.


Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:15 | 4152337 KansasCrude
KansasCrude's picture

Bitcoin the ultimate in nerd derived PONZI's.   That people I once gave credit to for half a brain think its created from a hardrive...the birthing of money from electronic fantasy......whats the dif between the Fed and Bitcoin?  Different key strokes?


Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:32 | 4152399 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

BTC is not a ponzi scheme. Here is the SEC's definition of a ponzi scheme:

A Ponzi scheme is an (1) investment fraud that involves the payment of purported (2) returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by (3) promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to (4) make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to (5) use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

1. BTC is not an investment it is money. 
2. BTC does not offer any returns to existing investors. 
3. When a person purchases a BTC there is no promise to generate high returns with little or no risk. 
4. The person or people who originally wrote the BTC coding do not receive any direct payments from third parties involved in BTC transactions. 
5. Current owners of BTC do not receive money directly as a result of any future BTC transactions. 

By all five counts, BTC does not meet the definition of a ponzi scheme.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:39 | 4153093 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

It's fiat, so it's a ponzi. Earlier you said it isn't fiat because the govt. doesn't decree its acceptance for settlements. But that's not what fiat means, fiat is holding up something that no one would think has any value and saying, "let this be" money. You don't have to do that with silver and gold (and tin and copper and lead). People see the value. The critical difference is that the fiat is based on trust: you have to trust that others will still want it for goods and services. You don't have that worry about gold and silver, they are almost hard-wired into our DNA at this point.

Bitcoin suffers from a lot of problems, beyond being a fiat Ponzi (which will break, all things based on unwarranted trust break). It's _not_ portable unless you rely on counterparties (ISPs, wireless networks). And it's not tangible - you can never hold it in your hand and pass it on to another without counterparty involvement. You might make some money trading in and out of it over the years, but as a currency it's essentially shitcoin.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 07:03 | 4153317 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

There's no bitgun pointed at you to accept bitcoins, nor is there any "legal tender" law(s) associated with them -- big difference.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:35 | 4152201 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

He just launched a gold fund. My guess is he sees BTC as a threat to the success of his gold fund. Ironically, that sort of turns him into the very same people he claims to be in opposition to, people suppressing sound money for personal gain. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:05 | 4152299 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Can no longer disagree with anyone who holds Bitcoin. Truth is, Bitcoin goes up when the USD goes down. That should be the case with gold but apparently and intentionally never is. So, while Bitcoin goes up and gold continues the neverending decline maybe Bitcoin is the place to be, until the Crimex collapses or the grid goes down. Then it's a whole new ball game.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:34 | 4152389 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

It's my guess that BTC will continue its recent extreme volatility, at least for a while.  Up and down.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:03 | 4154146 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

I agree, with a caveat: more up than down; a lot more up than down.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:35 | 4152411 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

Yes. BTC offers all of the sound money properties gold and silver offer without all of the headaches gold and silver come with, such as central planner price manipultion. It is unfortuante gold bugs are so in love with gold they have bllinded themselves from seeing this. A peson ahs to be nimble enough to learn and adapt beliefs as new information becomes available. Emotionally holding onto existing beliefs is not the way forwarrd.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:00 | 4152484 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"all the headaches"? LOL. Gettting gold and silver onsale right now because of manipulation somehow makes it bad to accumulate and hold it? And blinded by exactly what? Are you fucking kidding?

John, I call bullshit on that kind of weak logic and very bad reasoning (apart from Bitcoin itself).

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 07:06 | 4153318 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

TPTB have ZERO control over the distributed blockchain of Bitcoin, therefore they cannot manipulate it -- beware any BETF (bitcoin exchange traded funds)!

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 11:42 | 4154000 sleigher
sleigher's picture

He owns a company that sells PM's.  He gets BTC.  He also gets his own business and livelihood.  

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:52 | 4152259 joego1
joego1's picture

I have a problem with anything that is considered a store of wealth that depends on electricity.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:03 | 4152293 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

BTC does not depend on electricity, you are misinformed. A BTC is just a series of numbers and letters consisting of a public and a private key. These two sets of numbers can just as easily be used in physical form, such as written on a piece of paper or a small coin, as they can in digital form. Because BTC has the optionality of existing in both physical form and digital form it is superior to gold or silver which can both only exist in physical form. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:21 | 4152355 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Do you have any of these physical Bitcoins yourself? How do you take delivery of them?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:30 | 4152394 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

That is confidential. But yes, it is very easy to store BTC offline in physical form. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:35 | 4152415 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Bullshit contradiction.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:52 | 4152464 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Asking how to take physical delivery is "confidential"?

Excuse me, but WTF is that all about?

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 07:14 | 4153322 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

You asked two questions, yet you key off only one answer -- illogical.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 07:18 | 4153323 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Physical bitcoins..., you were saying?

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:37 | 4154285 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

Casascius Coins (“Coins” or “Coin Products”) are collectibles produced by Casascius LLC, a Utah limited liability company (“Company”), intended to serve as functional containers of digital virtual currency, as well as an abstract demonstrable representation of digital virtual currency in tangible form.


Casascius Coins, LLC:

2901 Little Cottonwood Road , Sandy, UT, 84092

10 miles from the Bluffdale NSA datacenter...  coincidence?  I think not. Just as it was no coincidence when Utah was the first to pass legislation officially re-recognizing Gold and Silver a legal tender. 


All you Bitcoin pom-pom wavers are fucking retards. I have just laid the basic bread crumb trail on your path to enlightenment... Will you follow it?


Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:12 | 4152519 therover
therover's picture

Ok...I am confused (not the first time nor the last).

There is a electricity for a 50 mile radius. I have my bitcoin info on a piece of paper. I also have one ounce of silver in my hand. 

I go to a local merchant who is open and will sell goods. What do you think he will accept in this situation ? Will he take my piece of bit coin paper info, or the one ounce of silver ? 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:09 | 4152138 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture


"What now?"

"Do you think you should wait for that last big metal dip you were talking about?"

"Mmmmmm...., I'm gonna keep pecking at the precious, but I believe there's one more big drop."

"Don't you keep me up all night cussin' yourself if you miss it."

"Awwww shaddup!"

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:06 | 4152151 olto
olto's picture



Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:18 | 4152157 uncle.bigs
uncle.bigs's picture

Gold is a classic burst bubble.  Peter Brandt lays it all out quite nicely:

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:36 | 4152205 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

Yes and the fed balance sheet is not.  Only good things can come from yellonomics

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:40 | 4152216 Devotional
Devotional's picture

riiight ... of course we do NOT have a GLOBAL sovereign debt crisis (record bankrupt countries), we do NOT have bankrupt banks, Cyprus did NOT happen of course, the 700 trillion derivatives market does NOT exist either, people have MASSIVE savings, companies are HIRING into infinity, there is ZERO unemployment, taxes are at record LOW levels. The positive data goes on and on man ...

Yep, this is the 70s again ... yep, fucking makes sense now. 70s says it all and gold is going to zero ... riiiight.

btw, I forgot the /sarc above.

wow o_O

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 07:19 | 4153325 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Bet you know all that 'cause the NSA told you so...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:41 | 4152219 Doug Eberhardt
Doug Eberhardt's picture

Gold has gnoe up 12 years in a row and this will be the first year it did not break to a new high. The article you posted by Brandt concluded "his guess is gold will go to new lows with at least 1000 possible." Is that really going out on a limb when you throw a bazillion charts into a 45 page article and conclude it with a "guess" as to what might happen? 

While Peter Schiff and most others, including those who write for Zero Hedge, have been calling gold higher and higher all the way down, if you look at a chart when the dollar bottomed and gold topped in 2011, they pretty much have traded the opposite of each other. 

Gold can go down and will go down even more "if" the Dollar Index breaks above 84 on the chart. Can it? Sure. Will it? Who knows. But with a stronger dollar, higher DOW/S&P, and no "fear" in the markets, gold can easily fall if the Dollar gets even stronger, no matter how well or bad the economy really is. 

Is the Fed QE coming to and end and tapering beginning? Hardly!

Will Peter Schiff always be bullish on gold and negative on the dollar? Of course. 

But if all currencies are fighting each other to see who can devalue the quickest, the U.S. Dollar will in my opinion be perceived as the safest of the bunch. 

I am dollar bullish and at some point next year will become dollar and gold bullish. 

It's just a matter of time before gold takes off, and Schiff and all the others will of course claim they were right. 

But my guess is, those companies like Monex that told their customers since 2011 to buy gold and silver on leverage, aren't receiving love from their customers right now, and I imagine some of Peter Schiff's clients aren't either. 

I sell gold for a living and have been cautioning those who are allocating to gold and silver to dollar cost average into a position. We haven't hit bottom yet and I wrote in August that I see lower prices until year end. 



Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:52 | 4152249 graspAU
graspAU's picture

Gold (physical) = Insurance (for when/if the music stops)

Dollar cost average into the % you think you should hold of your net worth.

Of course spread eggs into a few baskets.


The old 5% insurance does not seem right for the kinds of things happening in the world.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:58 | 4152279 Doug Eberhardt
Doug Eberhardt's picture

Agree on the insurance aspect to owning physical gold as well as asset allocation.

With the lower prices, you get some insurance with gold and sivler, but it is setting up nicely for a trade for an additional percentage.

People have to decide whether or not the "buy low" for gold and silver out weighs the "buy high" for stocks and invest accordingly. Gold can go lower, sure, but it will bottom out. Stocks can go higher, sure, but history shows when P/E ratios (valuations) get out of hand, the corrections can be brutal. In 2008, gold ended the calendar year positive. Stocks, not so much. No one can time perfectly, but the propensity for one to outperform the other lies with gold and silver over stocks. I'm good with cash and gold/sivler as well. Wait for opportunities that always come.  

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:09 | 4153019 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I know of no "gold/equity ratio" (although there is definitely one vis a vis energy). there is a "gold//silver ratio" however and by that metric silver looks dirt cheap to me. silver peaked out at 50 bucks an ounce while gold at 800 back in the late 70's 1980. that's about 20 to one give or take "over valuing" gold by almost 300 percent here. if the price of silver were to move back above fifty that could change in my view.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:56 | 4152274 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"dollar cost average into a position".

Good advice Doug. I believe most here at ZH have been saying the same thing for a couple years now. Very few listen. What about your clients? You ever tell them about the Indian Rupee hitting all time highs in 2013 compared to gold instead of focusing on the Almighty USD? And I assume by a "holding a position" you mean physical holdings and not fraud ridden ETF's like GLD?


Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:06 | 4152301 Doug Eberhardt
Doug Eberhardt's picture

Bay of Pigs, good deal. Yes, my clients listen. I do write about other currencies as well. Here is one of those articles; Calling the Fed Taper Bluff and What Gold Might Do Next

I primarily concentrate on the Yen and Euro though, which make up 70% of the Dollar Index. 

Yes, am in the physical camp...not just because I sell it. I view the ETF's as good "trading" vehicles. Can't get behind something that has as its custodian JP Morgan (SLV) or HSBC (GLD) though. 


Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:10 | 4152316 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Professional brokers by DEFN only hawk 'paper' ETF gold, by DEFN that last thing in the world they want for their client is for him to take possession of physical 'gold'. Especially given that the nature of all Zero-Head talking crook grifter's is churning, ... ETF's are by and far the back-bone of internet fraud operators.

Personally I'm no advocate of 'physical gold' at home, there are plenty of reputable house's in Singapore and Hong-Kong that will hold your physical gold, and allow inspection so should you wish.

Keeping a little gold around, is like wiping your ass after you shit, or spraying the hose on your anus ( depending where you live ), it really doesn't need to be said, on the other hand daily the 'talking heads' of Zero-Head tell their clients to visit their 'house' and BUY ETF's for paper-gold, and paper-currency's.

If you want to own gold do it, if you want to own foreign money then do it, why people buy etf paper from these clowns is simple proof that the majority are idiots.

Get off your ass and travel, its fucking easy to open a bank account abroad. Then you don't have to fuck with any broker or MORON grifter in a suit talking shit on CNBC and getting re-posted on ZH.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:23 | 4152363 Doug Eberhardt
Doug Eberhardt's picture

Carlin401, I understand that one can travel and buy gold and store it. People in the U.S. can do that too, without going to another country. Whether it be Switzerland, Canada, Singapore and more, they can store gold. While I recommend storage in your home, and my number one rule is "tell no one," at least at home you don't have the storage fees that eat away at your gold every year.

For those that are worried about theft, then at least with Gold American Eagles, companies like State Farm can insure them. But you have to keep your policy up each year for any increase in value. In my book, Buy Gold and Silver Safely, I do recommend people buy a $39 Walmart safe and put some petty cash and fake jewelry and coins into it, while hiding the main safe under a fridge or under a false shelf in a bedroom. Lead the typically not so bright burglar to the Walmart safe and they see the cash and other items and don't look back.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:37 | 4152420 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Good advice.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:03 | 4152294 carlin401
carlin401's picture

But if all currencies are fighting each other to see who can devalue the quickest, the U.S. Dollar will in my opinion be perceived as the safest of the bunch.


We here this so often I almost think its a parrot talking, 'safe to whom'? US geese?

There are strong currency's, CHF, SGD, NOK,

The EURO is like a saint compared to the USD, the CNY is suspect but better than the USD, and the SGD is nicely tied to the CNY.

If the SHTF its the USA that is in deep shit, and the only reason it is seen as a 'safe harbor', because the USA has the most people in prison, and the most nukes, and the most likely to use them on the world.

Given that 99% of the world wants to see the USA knocked down and humbled to its knees don't be so sure of this parrot outcome that everyone will run to the USD when the shit hits the fan. Given that the only AMMO left for the USA is to hand-out more USD's to the world when things get ugly, as some point they will be viewed is diluted to shit.

Regarding 'gold' lets remember that SCHIFF is a professional grifter for GOLD, and as such should be ignored, on the other hand hold your 5% as 'insurance', but one would never put 100% of their wealth in insurance, in all history of man-kind most have made their real money in real-estate.


The thing to watch is the USA's projected military power, and to watch country's like Hong-Kong that are 'tied' to the USD, when you start seeing country's in Asia de-couple from the USD, and you start seeing Uncle Sam's Army viewed as all-gay team of pussy's then you know its game-over for USA kleptocracy.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:14 | 4152332 Doug Eberhardt
Doug Eberhardt's picture

carlin401, The Dollar Index is what most concentrate on, so I stick with the currencies that make up that Index, primarily the Euro and Yen, which make up 70% of the index. 


I have had good conversations with Axel Merk from Merk funds on this, who is bullish the Euro (at least since June); Conversation with Axel Merk on Gold and Euro at FreedomFest - Merk Funds

His bottom line was that the Euro had no budget deficit to deal with. My issue was with the problems of the Southern Countries that had to at some point be addressed. It looks like they are being addressed via Draghi, and the Euro got hit quickly. 

I'm with you on the military issue, something that doesn't get talked about much. But I don't think anyone is going to decouple from the USD anytime soon. In fact, Argentina and Brazil citizens are looking to exchange their local currencies for dollars, not other currencies. They are even willing to take a 30% hit to get dollars. 

I will ONLY change my mind when or if the dollar broke below 71 on the index, being careful that its not a double bottom on the long term chart. I just don't see that occurring, but I do see the dollar and gold moving up togehter, something I will be discussing more in my next book, "Illusions of Wealth." Doesn't mean I will always be dollar bullish though....for good reasons. Just temporarily. But if you look at the Dollar Index, if the dollar is negative, you have to show me by default which of the rest of the currencies has so much going for it that they will move higher. I don't see it. And that's where your big guns come in too. 


Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:21 | 4153044 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

even more true with Venezuela. "largest oil reserves in the world." they have a black market rate in dollars that is something to behold. same obviously is true with Russia even today...although they have pounds, euro's and Krona now as well to trade in. with Ukraine becoming part of the "euro bloc" this is a major blow to Moscow. I still think a truly massive deflation is on the way in Europe...but we'll see.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:43 | 4152229 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

ZH's latest version of Math Man, GoldenMiddleFinger, and Spalding Smailes...uncle.bigs

Hey wait a second, not the old abiggs? Say it isn't so?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:57 | 4152277 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture


uncle.bigs is acting very trollish.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:52 | 4152257 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

It is truly magnificent and heartily supportive to observe and enjoy such an ongoing misunderstanding of the role of real money in an economy of bullshit!  We have a long way to go before gravity finally restores some reality to the zombie investment community.  Peter is right on the money, err, hard assets. The bigger it is, the harder it will fall.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:35 | 4152593 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

There are some mighty brave assumptions in your assumptions.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:41 | 4152223 evernewecon
evernewecon's picture



One article after another includes real estate sector



still leaves most people unaware of this simple




This matters:


His latest:



The inventory control, with the nation carrying the

dead weight in the interim, and the favoring in C-S 

of recent round-trip rollovers, actually works something

like discovering a car switcheroo because of the car

with positraction.





Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:55 | 4152270 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Good stuff. Thanks!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:55 | 4152267 Debt Slave
Debt Slave's picture

QE will not stop. The bond market will not permit it. Yellen says it's best for the economy. No taper, ever.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:55 | 4152271 Iam Yue2
Iam Yue2's picture

Peter Schiffty

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:14 | 4152334 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

If it ever gets to having to redeem gold for gas or food, you best have a gun or an escort.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:42 | 4152435 Doug Eberhardt
Doug Eberhardt's picture

Will I be able to trade my gold for the escort? 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:00 | 4152485 jomama
jomama's picture

who cares? just keep stacking.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 23:44 | 4152510 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Now that the House passed HR 992 to let the banksters back in derivatives with guaranteed taxpayer bailouts, once the bank-owned Senate passes, the banks will be able to spur another financial crisis.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:15 | 4152528 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

People fear what they don't understand or that which could threaten their investments or income.  It's the same reason people fear austrian economists.  With BitCoin the concept is clearly a winner and has a market.  It isn't gold or as good as gold IMO but BitCoin is a great currency alternative... but it also makes it dangerous to governments... which could slow its success.

I'm wondering if the current BitCoin prices have been bid up purposefully and will crash down to something more reasonable soon.  So Peter may be vindicated soon with his "bubble" call.   He seems to think bitcoin is some kind of joke though and that it is not.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:30 | 4152579 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Since John Conner wouldn't answer, I'll ask you. Where and how does a person take physical delivery of his Bitcoins since they are both "digital and physical"? I was enjoying his presentation up until that point when he dodged and evaded the question. 

And if you can't answer this question, I'd like to know why anyone would listen to John or you on this topic. It is either real or it is not. Simple enough.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:45 | 4152792 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Bay, your questions are always spot-on.  Let me tell you what two have told me re spending Bitcoins.

1)  One bought a little gold with his, delivery was difficult and delayed, but he got it.  He did not want to do BTC anymore, he had computer problems with it (this a while ago).

2)  My Original Donor (the guy who gave me the 0.11 BTC I mentioned at my blog) has bought some apparently low-value trinkets via the internet with BTC.  While his purchases are not enough to get all ephoric about, I take him at his word.


I take both guys at their word.  Both have demonstrated to me clear & solid thinking and a good heart.

As I do not personally KNOW these two, I can never be sure.  But, I am satisified that they have bought those products they told me that they had.  Hope that helps.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:32 | 4153076 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Western Massachusetts apparently. "Shay's Rebellion." they tried to form a State of Western Mass. back in the day...they appear to still be trying. If they succeed Boston won't be around much longer. I would keep an eye out for "Sudden Toll Road Apparency." from Internet trolls to "trolls for real." we are talking money after all...

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:34 | 4153078 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

You print a private paper wallet, send the coins there and destroy all digital records of it.   Your coins are now tied to that piece of paper and can be imported later anywhere and nobody else can access them unless they steal the physical paper from you.  You can give this piece of paper to others who can import and use it, you could consider that physical delivery of bitcoins.

Now theres some steps to take to do it as securely as possible but its not that big of a deal. 

Yes its just paper, yes bitcoin has risks... but it also has advantages.  You seem aggressive against bitcoin, do you really not see the value of it?  I thought its value was pretty obvious versus gold or anything else.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 17:41 | 4155624 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

Everything I said is accurate and factual.  The down voters = retards.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:17 | 4152710 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Anyone believe the NSA would release SHA-256 into the wild without a backdoor?

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:53 | 4153080 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

It doesn't just use SHA-256 .. that's a part of how it works.  Also, it is possible for the bitcoin network to change out SHA-256 for something else.. which i'm sure would be a nightmare.. but do-able.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 13:42 | 4154727 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Bitcoin developer Gregory Maxwell: “Problems with SHA-256 would be potentially more problematic as we cannot replace it in a backwards compatible way.”

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 17:41 | 4155623 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

No, but they can replace it moving forward, and cracked SHA-256 would not halt all bitcoin transactions due to how it works.  It's do-able but messy, just like I said.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:51 | 4152627 RSDallas
RSDallas's picture

The only thing these CNBC idiots have learned is not to let their guest's debate Schiff.  Way to go Schiff!

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:57 | 4152644 boeing747
boeing747's picture

Please watch 'gold rush' on discovery channel to understand how difficult to dig an oz of gold from muds. Also in 'california gold rush' from 1849, 30% of gold diggers (49er) died. Million pounds of mercury were used to produce gold, a environmental disaster lasted till today.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:46 | 4154387 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

I personally believe that this residual mercury contamination from the 1850's Gold Rush is probably one reason that so many Californians are mentally defective imbeciles today.

Just a personal theory-


Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:21 | 4152724 Confundido
Confundido's picture

At the end, the clown that says gold should go down because treasury yields will go up shows us the flawed reasoning....Why would yields go up? Because of a recovery? If there is such a thing, why would the Fed want to implement reverse repos? There you go... The truth is that gold can only spike if rates go up...Counterintuitive??? Think again. Think what increasing rates mean...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:25 | 4152738 Confundido
Confundido's picture

At the end, the clown that says gold should go down because treasury yields will go up shows us the flawed reasoning....Why would yields go up? Because of a recovery? If there is such a thing, why would the Fed want to implement reverse repos? There you go... The truth is that gold can only spike if rates go up...Counterintuitive??? Think again. Think what increasing rates mean...Gold sky rocketed in the '70s with rates increasing, and collapsed in the '80s, with rates falling...

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 01:23 | 4153153 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

This ain't the 30's, this ain't the 70's, this ain't no foolin' around.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 05:38 | 4153266 PhatChow
PhatChow's picture

Seriously when things collapse and no one can pay their electricity bill. No one will have a job to buy cryptocoins. The price will collapse. There will be no one that can afford to pay those large amounts.

Someone show us the way of crypto. How does it survive?

I've got most of my money in gold and a revenue generating business. That I hope will shield me from the crisis. I'll gladly take gold coins in exchange for food even if they have fallen in value as a result of no one having a job. The question is would I take a bitcoin when you don't know if the electricity will be turned off tomorrow? Literally the digital currency could vanish overnight if no one can afford to maintain their miners as a result of the coins falling in value. If the same happened with gold, only the mining operations would cease, whilst you still have your gold.

They can seize the crypto domains, dns server connecting the nodes, hard-coded servers, and bump everyone off the internet and no one will know how to reconnect to the blockchain. That's a dangerous thing to be playing with. How can you reconnect, whose software would you trust to connect when the main site is gone? We might see a few different members deciding to create forks but which one is the real blockchain. It's a disaster, and it can happen even without a collapse. The governmental agencies just need to co-operate and takedown the crypto-botnet and the cryptocoin becomes worthless. We continuously see botnets shutdown, so why couldn't the same happen to crypto?

The best way to protect yourself is to have a depression proof business. This can mean growing vegetables in your garden if you have a low income.


For me coins are just a novelty intangible. I've only collected from faucets but really I don't see it getting off the ground.

Convince me.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 17:44 | 4155629 TaperProof
TaperProof's picture

Farmers in third world nations are transacting in bitcoin.   ..and no offense, but if the shit hits the fan that bad, you're gold will be worth much less than FOOD, GUNS and AMMO.   The plus to gold/silver is upon recovery of the shit hits the fan era, it will be worth plenty... if you can hold on to it without having it stolen from you.

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