• Sprott Money
    05/06/2016 - 06:03
    The US, in its own decline, is showing this same self-destructive tendency. The worse things get, the greater the inclination of the citizenry to say, “Carry on, everything’s fine.”

Peter Schiff: "Gold Is Being Undermined By The Fantasy Of A US Recovery"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

With gold down 10 of the last 11 days (until today), Peter Schiff tells CNBC that this temporary downswing is due to "the fantasy of a US recovery," that so many actually believe and thus, due to this 'recovery' the Fed will taper back its quantitative easing. "It's not gonna happen," Schiff explains, "we have a phony recovery," and the Fed will more likely increase the amount of QE in order to sustain it, "which is very bullish for gold." Crucially, Schiff clarifies that he "doesn't think a taper is inevitable," as many believe, "but an end to QE won't happen by the Fed's choice - the market will force them to tread on the brakes as the USD collapses." As we noted earlier, Schiff also believes there is an attempt to do "whatever it takes" to pull the EUR down to maintain the USD - but as today's price action shows, it's not working... "Long-term, the fundamentals have never been better for gold."

 

Schiff goes on to explain why he believes Yellen's first act will be to raise QE...(which she somewhat confirmed after hours in her early pre-released testimony)

 

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Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:56 | 4152101 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

CNBC sucks the big green one

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:59 | 4152113 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

Believe it or not,
It's floating on air.
I never thought I would BTFATH.
Flying away on a wing and a prayer.
Who could it be?
Believe it or not it's just QE.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:08 | 4152134 Dear Infinity
Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:05 | 4152183 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That's a good site (ounce.me), + 1, I gave them 0.01 BTC last night.

Also gave http://fiatleak.com/ 0.01 BTC as well.  fiatleak was featured here at Zero Hedge the other night.

All BTC I have I got from a donor, I have been trying to "spend" them well...

 I have fiatleak's stream on now, it has been running abou 22 mins so far: 1205 BTC (approx. $482,000 !!), USA now just beating out China as No. 1 (in the few minutes this has been on for me).

 

UPDATE:

I just saw 99.46 BTC cross the wire at 6:40 PM.  That's about $40,000 in one transaction.

As of now, the USA still barely leads China since 6:15 PM US ET.

 

UPDATE 2:

7:01 PM US ET, a pair of 200 + BTC transactions crossed the wire, that's over $160,000 (total of both)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:51 | 4152460 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Wow. If he thinks gold is down unjustly over the past 2 weeks, he should look at silver. There must be something big they are trying to hide in that market.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 18:57 | 4152104 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture


Jesse: COMEX Claims Per Deliverable Ounce Up Again To 62 GLD, MUX, TNR.v, GDX

 Jesse reports that in Fractional Gold Reserve System the leverage has reached the all-time-high of 62 owners per ounce of Gold. With Janet Yellen set for hearing tomorrow we can expect another hit and run Gold accident in the DC area, but so far US Dollar has fallen out of bed today and Gold is holding up at its four weeks low. Where LBMA is going to get the physical Gold for delivery at this level of prices? We doubt that China will accept Bitcoin instead of Gold for its currency reserves any time soon.

 

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/jesse-comex-claims-per-deliverable.h...

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:29 | 4152374 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

"Gold is being undermined by the fantasy of a fiat monetary system".

FIFY.

Who are the Fed's shareholders, again?

C'mon. One of you yutes at the NSA has the goods.

Got Balls?

Edit: Bitcoin = faith in very fragile systems.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:24 | 4152105 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Gold, of course, is the best Store of Wealth there is.  Nothing is better.  Store of Wealth is one of the functions of money after all.  But, I have been exploring Bitcoins as a new way to tote around capital (as a Medium of Exchange).  I am a beginner!  But here's what I have learned so far:

 

"Fun with Bitcoin for Beginners"

http://tinyurl.com/lh7kt5y

***

New Goldman Sachs Managing Directors please feel free to send me a slice of your new bonuses...:

1P11zA1GaJcyjc7oVt1jVQvWcPoW12sv5R

:)

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:39 | 4153207 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I may have gotten a donation!

(from transaction details)

 

from    1B8xP3mHpkbAA......  (truncated, a couple of alphanumerics changed)

Thank you!    :)

***

Why should I work if I can be an Internet Panhandler?  LOL...  (j/k)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:00 | 4152115 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Consider it a gift.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:06 | 4152131 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Well I watch #GoldRush and I think #GoldRush could be responsible for the undermining.  I mean, I hardly ever see them find any gold and any time they get close something bad happens.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:32 | 4152192 GoldRulesPaperDrools
GoldRulesPaperDrools's picture

`We just have to keep digging!`

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:32 | 4152401 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I prefer to do my gold mining at the LCS (local coin shop).

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:09 | 4152135 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Peter. He intially introduced me to Austrian economics a few years ago. But I have been listinening to him recently call bitcoin fiat money and a ponzi scheme. Even Peter must know that BTC is neither fiat currency (government issued currency made legal tender by government decree) or a ponzi scheme. It is unfortunate to see he has fallen so in love with gold it seems he cannot see BTC is as good as, or even better, store of wealth as sound money as gold or silver are. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:22 | 4152166 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Unfortunately have to agree with you and am frankly very surprised that Schiff doesn't get Bitcoin.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:30 | 4152187 john39
john39's picture

when the shit finally hits the fan, i seriously doubt that bitcoin is going to do anyone much good.  these are not normal times.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:33 | 4152196 GoldRulesPaperDrools
GoldRulesPaperDrools's picture

You can keep your bitcoins, I'll keep my new Ruger .308 AR and suppressor thank you very much. ;)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:37 | 4152209 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Why not have it all?  Diversification...  The Central Bank of DoChenRollingBearing holds gold.  Protected by Kalashinikov and Beretta.  And is experimenting with Bitcoin as a way to move "money" around.

Mobility is worth something.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 23:56 | 4152990 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

how do I collect taxes on a bitcoin transaction again?

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 01:42 | 4153167 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

The same way you collect taxes on anything else: threats of violence, backed by actual violence.

With real estate, art, electronic fiat currencies, equities, bonds, etc, finding the human owner and taxing (or seizing) the asset is now trivial. For PMs, you can simply coerce a full customer list & order history from most PM dealers. Bitcoin is trickier, but clearly not impossible, once you identify and capture the owner (e.g. Dread Pirate Roberts), and apply some rubber hose crypto to get the passphrase.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 09:37 | 4153524 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Dread Pirate Roberts got caught because he got sloppy — gave out his personal gmail address, among other stupid things — not because of anything inherently wrong with Bitcoin.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:38 | 4152211 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture

Schiff got that much right, Bitcoins are digital Beanie Babies.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:59 | 4152283 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

There is no difference between the backing of AU and BTC.

BTC is not backed by debt. BTC is backed by an asset. That asset is the algorithmic coding that gives people who use it confidence it meets and will always meet four of the five characteristics of sound money: divisible, durable, portable, scarcity. The fifth characteristic of sound money, value in the mind of the actor, comes from that confidence in the algorithmic coding. 

AU is not backed by debt. AU is backed by an asset. That asset is the atomic coding as defined by natural law that gives people who use AU confidence it meets and will always meet the same four out of five characteristics of sound money I wrote in the above paragraph. It also has the fifth characteristic of sound money for the same reason BTC does. BTC will not collapse when the debt-backed currencies collapse and it is sound money for the very same reasons AU is sound money. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:14 | 4152330 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

John, if you want to cash out of Bitcoin and you have let's say, a million bucks. How do you do that kind of transaction without using a bank?

Serious question, just wondering as I haven't found anyone around here that will answer that question yet.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:27 | 4152375 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That is a very good question, Bay.  I'll ask our bearing supplier in China if they will take BTCs.  If our bearing supplier will take BTC...:

then we are in a whole new ballgame.

***

(They will not take gold, yet)

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:39 | 4152427 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

The same way you would cash out of physical gold or silver, go find a BTC dealer who will exchange it for cash, or if you prefer, pysical gold or silver offline. If you have $1 million to convert I am sure in the free market you will find someone willing and able to service your request. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:48 | 4152451 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Fair enough. Thx. How many Bitcoin dealers are there and where are they at?

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:58 | 4152481 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

If you look you can find one. As BTC's popularity grows the demand for this service you request will be met by the free market. That is the beauty of the free market, it creates goods and services to meet the existing needs of consumers. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:01 | 4152489 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Gee, thanks for the canned bullshit answer.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:20 | 4152552 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

You are welcome.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:55 | 4152637 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I have heard Schiff say some decent things about Bitcoin.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 22:13 | 4152696 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Never mind John, I looked it up myself at this site called "SimplyBTC".

http://www.simplybtc.co.uk/

Some real gems in there, like this one,

"We have been trading digital and physical coins throughout Europe and America for some time. This has given us a great knowledge of the best (and more importantly safest) places to get involved with bitcoins. Bitcoins really are the future of digital currency but have been undermined in the past by people hacking and scamming others."

And better yet,

"Want bitcoins but not sure how to get them? Bitcoin mining is not always possible as it can take very expensive equipment and a large electricity bill."

Emphasis mine. Yeah, so keep pulling our chain on the "headaches" on buying and holding physical gold and silver. What a crock of shit.   

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:46 | 4153209 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

If I suddenly have the problem of having to figure out how to trade in a million bucks worth of Bitcoins I'll be a very happy man.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 09:42 | 4153533 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Stay tuned, Bay, my belief being that J_C is right and that Bitcoin is both the future of money and the end of the state.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 23:43 | 4152960 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

Gold is backed by real, authentic, and genuine CAPITAL.  That capital is the sum total effort necessary to extract, smelt, refine, and fabricate it into its final forms.

Gold's supply can only increase as a direct function of human labor, effort and endevour. BTC's supplies rise based on computer clock cycles -  debasement is baked in the cake.

BTC may evolve into a usable currency, but it will never be a timeless, inter-generational preserver of wealth

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 23:50 | 4152980 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

+1 Best comment on the thread.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 02:18 | 4153184 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

Never is a long time. How many teenagers are buying actual physical coins these days? How many are buying stupid virtual shit for their Farmville farm? Technology changes, people adapt. Physically transferring gold between distant/untrusted parties is expensive, risky, and slow - clearly there is some role for decentralized virtual currencies as an electronic medium-of-exchange. They're better than fiat since the supply growth is publically known upfront.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:16 | 4154209 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

You explanation of the value of gold was outdated a century ago. You probably would explay why the Earth is flat and not shperical and the sun rotate around the Earth

The value of bitcoin is:
1)  The coding of the nodes of the network 
2) the size of the network and its computing power.

To manipulate the network anyone must spend time and resources and the size of the network is so big any manipulation is counterproductive.
Also the network is "intelligent" and could adapt and repel an attack if it is detected.

Hostiles could knock it down, but can not prevent it coming up again in a very short time with a vengeance.
IMHO any attacker could not take down the network for more than a couple of minutes.

Gold market can be manipulated because it is centralized and delivery of gold is costly.
Bitcoin market can not be manipulated so easily because it is not centralized (it is more decentralizing now than before) and delivery of bitcoin is always possible and near always requested.

 

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:16 | 4154210 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

You explanation of the value of gold was outdated a century ago. You probably would explay why the Earth is flat and not shperical and the sun rotate around the Earth

The value of bitcoin is:
1)  The coding of the nodes of the network 
2) the size of the network and its computing power.

To manipulate the network anyone must spend time and resources and the size of the network is so big any manipulation is counterproductive.
Also the network is "intelligent" and could adapt and repel an attack if it is detected.

Hostiles could knock it down, but can not prevent it coming up again in a very short time with a vengeance.
IMHO any attacker could not take down the network for more than a couple of minutes.

Gold market can be manipulated because it is centralized and delivery of gold is costly.
Bitcoin market can not be manipulated so easily because it is not centralized (it is more decentralizing now than before) and delivery of bitcoin is always possible and near always requested.

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:15 | 4152337 KansasCrude
KansasCrude's picture

Bitcoin the ultimate in nerd derived PONZI's.   That people I once gave credit to for half a brain think its real......money created from a hardrive...the birthing of money from electronic fantasy......whats the dif between the Fed and Bitcoin?  Different key strokes?

 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:32 | 4152399 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

BTC is not a ponzi scheme. Here is the SEC's definition of a ponzi scheme:


A Ponzi scheme is an (1) investment fraud that involves the payment of purported (2) returns to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors. Ponzi scheme organizers often solicit new investors by (3) promising to invest funds in opportunities claimed to generate high returns with little or no risk. In many Ponzi schemes, the fraudsters focus on attracting new money to (4) make promised payments to earlier-stage investors and to (5) use for personal expenses, instead of engaging in any legitimate investment activity.

1. BTC is not an investment it is money. 
2. BTC does not offer any returns to existing investors. 
3. When a person purchases a BTC there is no promise to generate high returns with little or no risk. 
4. The person or people who originally wrote the BTC coding do not receive any direct payments from third parties involved in BTC transactions. 
5. Current owners of BTC do not receive money directly as a result of any future BTC transactions. 

By all five counts, BTC does not meet the definition of a ponzi scheme.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 00:39 | 4153093 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

It's fiat, so it's a ponzi. Earlier you said it isn't fiat because the govt. doesn't decree its acceptance for settlements. But that's not what fiat means, fiat is holding up something that no one would think has any value and saying, "let this be" money. You don't have to do that with silver and gold (and tin and copper and lead). People see the value. The critical difference is that the fiat is based on trust: you have to trust that others will still want it for goods and services. You don't have that worry about gold and silver, they are almost hard-wired into our DNA at this point.

Bitcoin suffers from a lot of problems, beyond being a fiat Ponzi (which will break, all things based on unwarranted trust break). It's _not_ portable unless you rely on counterparties (ISPs, wireless networks). And it's not tangible - you can never hold it in your hand and pass it on to another without counterparty involvement. You might make some money trading in and out of it over the years, but as a currency it's essentially shitcoin.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 07:03 | 4153317 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

There's no bitgun pointed at you to accept bitcoins, nor is there any "legal tender" law(s) associated with them -- big difference.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 19:35 | 4152201 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

He just launched a gold fund. My guess is he sees BTC as a threat to the success of his gold fund. Ironically, that sort of turns him into the very same people he claims to be in opposition to, people suppressing sound money for personal gain. 

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:05 | 4152299 AllWorkedUp
AllWorkedUp's picture

Can no longer disagree with anyone who holds Bitcoin. Truth is, Bitcoin goes up when the USD goes down. That should be the case with gold but apparently and intentionally never is. So, while Bitcoin goes up and gold continues the neverending decline maybe Bitcoin is the place to be, until the Crimex collapses or the grid goes down. Then it's a whole new ball game.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:34 | 4152389 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

It's my guess that BTC will continue its recent extreme volatility, at least for a while.  Up and down.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 12:03 | 4154146 painlord-2k
painlord-2k's picture

I agree, with a caveat: more up than down; a lot more up than down.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 20:35 | 4152411 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

Yes. BTC offers all of the sound money properties gold and silver offer without all of the headaches gold and silver come with, such as central planner price manipultion. It is unfortuante gold bugs are so in love with gold they have bllinded themselves from seeing this. A peson ahs to be nimble enough to learn and adapt beliefs as new information becomes available. Emotionally holding onto existing beliefs is not the way forwarrd.

Wed, 11/13/2013 - 21:00 | 4152484 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"all the headaches"? LOL. Gettting gold and silver onsale right now because of manipulation somehow makes it bad to accumulate and hold it? And blinded by exactly what? Are you fucking kidding?

John, I call bullshit on that kind of weak logic and very bad reasoning (apart from Bitcoin itself).

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 07:06 | 4153318 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

TPTB have ZERO control over the distributed blockchain of Bitcoin, therefore they cannot manipulate it -- beware any BETF (bitcoin exchange traded funds)!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!