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What This Morning’s Obamacare Announcement Means
By Timothy Sandefur of Pacific Legal
Lawlessness: what this morning’s Obamacare announcement means
President Obama this morning announced that he would be issuing an administrative order—which requires no Congressional review—delaying the implementation of provisions of Obamacare that had led to the cancellation of a million or so insurance policies. This follows on the Administration’s similar delays of the Employer Mandate and the Individual Mandate. According to CNN, this morning’s delay is supposed to “cover millions of people who have had their insurance policies cancelled,” but the fact is that in many states, it won’t even do that—because insurance companies, anticipating the implementation of the new law, long ago decided to cancel these policies. Surprise!—except for the attentive observers who have been warning about this for years. Moreover, many states—including California—which are already going along with Obamacare are already beyond the Administration’s reach, because those insurance policies were cancelled by state agencies. This morning’s delay can’t do anything about that.
But there’s a much deeper problem at work here: the lawlessness of Obamacare, root and branch. The problems began with its initial enactment—first the Individual Mandate was supposed to be a “regulation of commerce.” That was unconstitutional, and the Supreme Court finally said no…only to rewrite the law by declaring it to be a “tax” instead. That doesn’t work either, though, because the Constitution requires that tax laws originate in the House of Representatives, and Obamacare began in the Senate. Meanwhile, the contents of the law—which members of Congress didn’t bother to read before they passed—gave away tremendous new powers to administrative agencies to write new rules to fill in crucial blank spots in the statute itself. For example, the Individual Mandate forces Americans to buy “minimum essential coverage”—but that term was left up to unelected bureaucrats in the Department of Health & Human Services to define later. And the law created a powerful new independent agency, the Independent Payment Advisory Board, and gave it power to write law about Medicare reimbursement rates without any checks and balances…and tried to make the law itself unrepealable.
Now come unilateral administrative delays on the order of the President. Keep in mind what these delays really are—they are not new laws, or amendments to the law…they are orders from the President to his subordinates to simply not enforce laws that are on the books. The Employer Mandate, for example, was “delayed” by an order that simply instructs Executive agencies not to enforce the reporting requirement. A company that fails to comply with that Mandate is still violating the law—it’s just that the President has chosen to look the other way for now.
The Constitution of the United States says that the President “shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” That provision was written because the Founding Fathers had experienced the arbitrariness of a government in which the British monarchy picked and chose which laws to enforce and which laws to ignore. The result of such political control over the law was, they knew, a breakdown in the rule of law—and a breakdown that allowed the powerful and politically well-connected to manipulate the system at will. As James Madison warned in the Federalist, “mutable” laws
poison[] the blessing of liberty itself. It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. Law is defined to be a rule of action; but how can that be a rule, which is little known, and less fixed?
Unfortunately, today’s administrative state gives so much power to unelected bureaucrats—who are protected against any meaningful control by voters—that they can alter, manipulate, and change the law almost at will. The result is a breakdown in the rule of law and an arbitrary system in which the government operates, not according to predictable standards and meaningful rules, but according to political whim and in arbitrary, day-to-day, ad hoc manner.
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Deerhunter - Substitute Fabian socialist for your cocaine users... and it is exactly whay is required under the Obamaination.
I disagree. The article overlooks a key fact. Obammy care is just another entitlement that falls under the umbrella of the Social Security Act. An ACT that was, among other things, a revenue measure that gave the feds the power to apply an excise or privilege tax on the newly ceated right to extraordinary protections paid for with money from the public treasury.
Bitch all you want. Obama has his ass covered.
I M P E A C H
except congress is a bunch of jerkoffs busy fucking interns and enriching themselves with inside info...
"pass it to find out what's in it" said the waiter to nancy pelosi
No more pretending to go along by voting...I've given up. Also won't be buying any holiday gifts -- may cut up my visa card, cancel landline, empty the house, lock it, and leave the state. Crap on it all.
I love this article. It sounds like Mark Levin talking on the radio.
Mark Levin?!? LOL.
Make up your mind, did you like the article, or not?
Curtis Mayfield - Superfly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cmo6MRYf5g (3:53)
He pretty much just caved to the demands of the republicans who were demanding this exact action as part of the debt talks.
The entire govt shut-down and Obama-care failure could of been avoided if he had just listened to republicans.
Note: Im not supporting republicans, im just saying on this occasion they were right to try and slow Obamacare down, because the shit wasn't ready (probably will never be ready because government couldn't figure out how to assemble a pencil if its life depended on it).
WE must kill it, before it destroys our families, our homes, our self-respect as a People.
The R-team provided the D-team with a perfect "Bad Cop" foil that gave them cover by a easily-led MSM to shift the focus from the train wreck of ACA and intead pretended the gov shutdown was real. If the R-team was really the opposition, they would have caved early for a two-month CRA extension and instead have warned on the floor all the coming negatives from Obamacare.
The republicunt "solution" that the House was going to bring to a vote tomorrow is not a solution, even though it would be legitimate law and validate Zerocare.
And since the House and Senate niggers will do Massa's bidding, no bill will pass out of both chambers, because it would put Massa in the embarrassing situation of either signing or vetoing changes to his dysfunctional bitch.
Any demotard solution in either chamber is now also a non-starter since it would undercut His Hopiness's decree this morning.
The totus should have DEMANDED as solution from the congress critters and BLAMED them when it blew up (playing to his only strengths, and inevitability).
Did all the political operatives at the Whore House go on vacation this week?
It wasn't the Republicans... It was the Tea Party. Big difference.
Let's fix immigration now? The illegals will write the law.
OF COURSE, "The result is a breakdown in the rule of law and an arbitrary system in which the government operates, not according to predictable standards and meaningful rules, but according to political whim and in arbitrary, day-to-day, ad hoc manner."
The international bankers that control the government of the USA already know that their pyramid scheme of debt slavery has grown at an exponential rate until it has produced a situation where its numbers are debt insanity, which have no mathematical ways to ever be fixed again. Therefore, since money is measurement backed by murder, and the debt slavery money system has ALREADY become debt insanity, the "solutions" are for there to manifest death insanities.
The American democratic republic has ALREADY been destroyed, more and more during the last Century or so. Nothing significant has reversed that trend. Especially since 1971, the total USA debts have been on a nearly perfect exponential growth curve. The numbers indicate that has ALREADY overshot to become debt insanities, which have no way to ever be repaired within the established systems. Therefore, the established systems are headed towards severe social storms, and a series of psychotic breakdowns. However, the international bankers are ALREADY way ahead of the curve. They had their puppet politicians prepare the path by the "war on (some) drugs," then used the techniques of false flag attacks to start the "war on (some) terror." Through those means everything is now in place which is needed to impose democidal martial law within the USA.
The "rule of law" was already destroyed when the Federal Reserve Board and the Income Tax were created. That has been consolidated to automatically get worse, faster, since then. Clearly, it was relatively easy for the banksters' political puppets to constantly enact more legalized lies, and back those up with more legalized violence. The simplest symbol of that was transforming hemp, the single best plant on the planet for people, for food, fiber, fun and medicine into "marijuana that is almost as bad as murder," which was obviously a very easy and successful thing to have done, as that then became 75% of the drug war, and therefore, in every way benefited the banksters' fascist plutocracy and fascist police state systems.
Generally speaking, it is practically impossible to get the masses of mainstream morons to begin to understand what is really going on, because they have been too successfully conditioned to not want to know. Obamacare is merely the latest wave of these tsunamis of legalized lies, backed by legalized lies, which are going to finish destroying the American democratic republic, because that is what was planned to be done by the people that control the people that control the government of the USA. Obamacare is the basic insanity of the PROFIT FROM DISEASE SYSTEM, destroying the whole society due to its overall absurd contradictions which make more profit from more disease and suffering, and therefore, does not prevent that, but rather increases it, aided and abetted by the profit from junk food system, and every other interlocking social insanity which now almost totally dominates the USA, as well as almost the whole world.
In my opinion the deeper reasons why the "rule of law" is practically dead is that it never faced its own paradox of enforcement, that Nobody Guards the Guardians. The human "rule of law" became based on bullshit which deliberately ignored the natural rule of law, and subverted the understanding of those natural laws. The deeper problem is that the "rule of law" has been approached through false fundamental dichotomies, and their related impossible ideals, rather than approached as an expression of natural laws through human systems. The grand paradox is that human behavior did NOT violate any of the laws of nature when the human "rule of law" became legalized lies, backed by legalized violence. The short-term triumphs of force backed frauds do not violate any laws of nature. However, neither can they stop the full cycle of their consequences from then playing through.
The dominate global empire for a while has been the Anglo-American (Zionist) one, with its international banksters being its central players for several centuries. They were able to take over almost complete control of the government of the USA, and drive the American systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, to become more and more psychotically insane, due to the inherent contradictions that enforcing lies with violence never can make those lies become true, but only make that society become madder and madder, until that madness destroys itself. Personally, I see nothing that can possible stop that from happening, and I believe that it will become trillions of times worse than anything ever before in human history, and will take down most of the rest of the world with its collapse into crazy chaos. As I said, the apparently absurd contradictions of Obamacare, which are going to result in many millions of people disobeying the law, for a wide variety of personal and principled reasons, are part of an overall, organized, deliberate, campaign by the international banksters to consolidate their global power, while making profits from killing off the American democratic republic.
For a long time, every story about Obamacare on Zero Hedge has revealed another aspect of how utterly insane and out-of-control that law and its implementation appeared to be. However, so far, I have not seen any mainstream articles get within a light year of understanding the deeper reasons why that has happened. Instead, there mostly continues to be the same old stupid superficial analyses, providing the same old stupid sets of "solutions" for those misunderstood problems. Therefore, I continue to see no reasonable hope that the imposition of democidal martial law shall not happen eventually, through which process the destruction of the rule of law will continue, until that turns back, again and again, on those who started that process, to destroy them too, and then turns again to destroy the destroyers, over and over, until that conflagration finally stops after it has consumed almost all of its fuel.
We are seriously stranded now, with problems that are trillions of times worse than ever before in know human history. According to ancient Greek myths, Zeus gave men the rule of law to cope with men getting control over the power of fire. Now men have gained control over atomic fire, which is billions of times more powerful than chemical fire. However, at the same time, the human rule of law is breaking down. A human rule of law that is consistent with atomic energy is what we theoretically need.
However, my macabre sense of humour says, "Hah, good luck with that!"
Nice post Rad. Brought it together nicely.
We are getting near the end of the book "Lord of the Flys" now.
No rescue I am afraid.
It's been reported but I cannot verify that the Washington state health care authority will not allow plans that aleady have been cancelled by insurance companies under Obamacare law to be reinstated.
Of course, JR, it will become increasingly difficult to confirm or verify which of these wrinkles have been ironed out, or are still there ... Obamacare reminds me of the mess that was made out of several hundred years of law regarding the title to real estate properties, capped off by the subprime mortgage disasters. That was all done behind an electronic curtain called MERS (an acronym for Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems, Inc.), which has allowed houses to be shuffled around among multiple, rapidly changing owners while circumventing local recording laws. MERS was another automated step in the prolonged process of summarily destroying the common law, and common sense, while replacing it with de facto expedient forms of laws, which the vast majority of people were never aware of gradually happening. (LIKE OBAMACARE, until that becomes more directly personal!)
http://www.alternet.org/story/149189/dude,_where's_my_mortgage_how_an_obscure_outfit_called_mers_is_subverting_our_entire_system_of_property_rights?page=entire
Dude, Where's My Mortgage?
By Yasha Levine, December 16, 2010.
How Obscure Outfit Called MERS
Is Subverting Our Entire System
of Property Rights: Banks have
scrambled America's system of
private property ownership to
the point that no one knows
who legally owns what now.
Of course, the American courts have handled that problem by becoming even more corrupt, and by short-circuiting the "rule of law" even worse, by the courts' deliberate refusal to face the magnitude of that problem, pretending that the best way to resolve it was to pretend it did not exist.
Meanwhile, another brick in the wall of debts:
Federal courts are upholding the validity of MERS.
http://www.mersinc.org/media-room/press-release/320-mers-role-as-beneficiary-validated-by-federal-courts-in-idaho
No surprise, despite MERS unilateral, de facto,
destruction of hundreds of years before MERS
of previously established, legal case law,
some courts are recognizing this electronic
system of registering mortgages, and titles,
to have been retroactively valid contracts.
More ways that some American courts are
rubber stamping the banksters' FRAUDS!
In 1993, Mortgage Banking magazine referred to this new mortgage resignation system as “New Age Delivery.” I would refer to that as a kind of "New Age Warfare" done by banksters that control the government. According to sworn testimony by various MERS executives, the organization has cycled through four different corporate entities in its brief lifespan. MERS also has almost no paid employees and does not seem to keeps any records or minutes of corporate meetings. When pressed to explain the inner workings of the organization, its executives evaded questions, feigned ignorance and generally acted like provincial mafia bosses on trial—exactly the kind of professionalism one would expect for a company responsible for tracking the ownership information of 50 million mortgages. It was just a couple of guys sitting around, chatting, smoking…and making sure not to leave any evidence behind. No wonder county officials who blew the whistle on MERS early on were squashed.
Edward Romaine, a Republican recorder of deeds for New York's Suffolk County, was one of the few officials who tried to refuse to take filings from MERS. "He argued that not only would the county lose out on fees—$1 million in one year alone—but that MERS failed to even maintain a clear chain of title on a property. He got backing from New York's attorney general," reported the Associated Press. MERS sued Suffolk County and took the case all the way up to the state's highest court, where it won on appeal in 2007. The court forced the county to accept MERS filings because the county lacked the statutory authority. Put another way, the court forced a municipal government to do business with a criminal organization, despite objections from county officials. ... We're constantly being told that liberalization, deregulation and privatization automatically equal greater freedom and increased efficiency. But MERS provides us with a different narrative, one in which the government works perfectly well, when not corrupted by corporations who want to use it to loot public wealth.
MERS was a quantum leap in summarily using a de facto system which destroyed several centuries of traditions regarding basic property rights. There is no reasonable doubt that that destruction is going to be rubber stamped by the already almost completely corrupted government, since all the branches of that government have been systematically transformed into agents of organized criminals, enabled to use the powers of We the People against Them!
In my opinion, there is relatively zero chance that enough of those People will ever again understand what has been often attributed to be what President George Washington originally wrote, that "Government is force, like fire." That is profoundly correct! We should understand human civilization as an energy system. However, almost nobody does, and moreover, almost nobody alive today wants to. Since the vast majority of Americans have gradually been brainwashed to believe in the biggest bullies' bullshit social stories, in which everything manifests in a Bizarro Mirror World, the ruling classes rule over us with almost no trouble at all. They can now routinely get away with destroying the rule of law, as with instituting the MERS system, and get away with doing that. It is horrible beyond imagination to attempt to comprehend where this is all going ... since it looks like democidal martial law will be the outcome, which itself will not last too long, since it will continue to destroy itself, because it is an out-of-control fire that will burn itself.
Everything above regarding the electronic MERS resonates with the electronic Obamacare. BOTH WERE RUBBER STAMPED DESTRUCTIONS OF HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF THE HISTORY OF THE RULE OF LAW ... WHICH APPARENTLY CAN NOT BE FIXED, AFTER THAT HAS BEEN ALREADY BEEN DONE ???
disclaimer: drunk <lambic ale> post.
tl;dr version?
i do love the herb, but haven't partook in the last 2 months.
The Washington state insurance commissioner has issued a statement saying that he doesn't think the President's plan is "a good deal for the people" of the state and therefore the extension won't be allowed in Washington state:
http://www.king5.com/health/Kreidler-Obamas-health-extension-wont-apply-to-Washington-state-231954981.html
A company that fails to comply with that Mandate is still violating the law—it’s just that the President has chosen to look the other way for now.
So underwriters are just going to have to "trust" whoever is President to honor this "looking the other way" forever?
I thought that the whole purpose of the cancelled policies was to create a large pool of new applicants for the ACA's exchanges?
I think Bath House Barry will utterly destroy the United States. There is no longer any doubt:
200+ years of history, destroyed by a negro queer steeped in Marxism, running a Fascist Corporation.
If America cannot remove him, this Republic will burn to the ground, its ashes scattered in the wind.
Military: destroyed.
Healthcare: destroyed.
Economy: destroyed.
Congress: Eliminated by Executive Fiat and Dictatorship.
Americans: millions soon to be murdered by an Evil we have not seen since Adolf Hitler.
Night is falling, and our apocalyptic Nightmare is only beginning.
LC55, once again you have nailed it completely. I really can't add to what you said, because what you said is far too succinct and unfortunately, true.
I just had to log in to give you a green arrow, and it's not the first time. It's like you just read my mind.
You are welcome.
I'm hoping a meteor will hit him. Soon.
Or some kind of Karma. He's fucked more people than a dozen whores at a Hells Angels kegfest.
I see Obama as a Marxist con man. What I have been praying for is that he be exposed for who he is and that people begin to see him as I have for quite some time. I believe my prayers are being answered. A lot has changed in the last few weeks alone.
The next hope will be for his removal from office and/or to make him totally irrelevant because I truly believe he is that dangerous to our country.
With attribution, I will use "negro queer steeped in Marxism, running a Fascist Corporation" for the next five years ... Thank you for the perfect and accurately vivid description. (NMQFC)
Would it have been different with McInsane or the Romenoid? Hmmm? two doors to the same slaughterhouse. The "handlers" chose Obozo because his skin and rhetoric fit the bill of this stage in the big plan. Yet he carried the torch the Cheney and his handlers lit. (Oh, and Bush W. was there too, mumbling something into the mic from his teleprompter) Look at the unfunded liabilities for Medicare Part D (Prescription drug benefit) it has surpassed Soc. Sec. liabilities. Signed by Bush W. into law.
It may make you feel good to vent and point at the current dumbfuck in office, but it makes no difference what his race or origin is. The torch will get passed on to to the next phase via the next dumbfuck, irregardless of his background or political affiliation. Perhaps an old white puke that socialists can snort and fart at. Who cares?
America lost it's chance to get a real statesman into office, someone who would have done all he could to shut government down to a minimum.
Most are just to strung out on wedge issues and MSM talking points to even see what the big picture is.
++ Exactly right.
Think of it as "Residence in Chief" more like it. The Reason they get In at all is because they were chosen so to speak.
Gambinos vs Genovese ??
Does it really make a difference?
Both will break your knee cap if you don't pay (taxes) protection.
Fascist in Marxist clothing, not the other way around.
Marxism is a cover.
What the author is describing in his view of the details of Obamacare is that it is essentially an Enabling Act where the Act itself is full of blandness and gets passed by lawmakers because it amounts to little more than a general statement of aspirations.
All the ghastly detail to give effect to the law is then fleshed out by unelected bureaucrats who produce reams of rules/regulations to suit themselves.
And it's interesting that he mentions the British monarchy picked and chose which of its laws to enforce in America. Nothing has changed back in Britain. The police kill innocent people and the bankers defraud millions of people, but no one is ever held to account.
There has been a rising flow of so-called Enabling Acts going thru the British Parliament in recent years. Tony Blair was very fond of them because it enabled him to spew bullshit to the populace about the trivialness of a new law and run for cover when its full effects were slowly introduced. His stream of anti-liberty laws all fell into this category.
The latest UK Immigration Bill from Home Secretary Theresa May going thru Parliament right now is an Enabling Act which gives her the power to impose a "health fee" (aka tourist tax) on anyone coming to the UK, including short term tourists and visitors. All without Parliament realising it.
Let's not forget who it was that passed an Enabling Act back in 1934 after the Reichstag Fire.
+100!!!
An Enabling Act. Yes! That explains what Pelosi meant when she repeated the message scrolling across the shaky ticker inside her ugly skull, stating 'we'll have to pass this bill to find out what is in it'. She meant, not to find out what is in it, but to find out what the enabling will eventually produce as a result of the efforts of the statist goons enabled by the act.....
The new "Trojan Horse" presented to the populace as a gift - the unwrapping awaits .
Do you think he plays golf like he governs? Makes new rules up with each swing?
would you do it any other way if you were him?
To understand Obama's "golf" game, please refer to Ann Barnhardt @ Barnhardt.biz today....
In California United Health and Aetna pulled out saying that they will not participate in the individual market in the State leaving a million people (including me) with no chance of 'If you like your plan you can keep it". They are gone ... how do we get them back for one year to give us our plan back.
This fiasco has so many tangles and tares and unintended (or intended) consequences that I feel that I am descending into a maggot cauldron.
leave the country. come to germany.
those cheap bastards....wait a min.... ;-)
eidting a rdurnk post
Bear, I'm in CA too, but my concern is like yours but different. I "qualify" for Medi-Cal (IOW, no other choice) and have been reading about how the clause is still there re: Estate Recovery. Anyone that has assets but low income (like me) and falls between the arbitrary age range of 55 - 64 will get hit with this. What it amounts to is, they force you to accept Medi-Cal and then when you pass away, they come after your estate for the entire amount of care provided (including capitation rates). No, Medi-Cal is not "free", not in any way, shape or form, unless you happen to be on it and die with no assets before age 55.
The entire thing is a ill-disguised asset stripping scheme thought up by sociopathic criminals at the highest level. What's worse, I'm not even sure at this time if it's possible to refuse the Medi-Cal service and pay just the penalty, as others are able to do. I've been losing sleep the past few nights thinking about this. It may come down to me having to move out of the state and to a state that didn't expand Medicaid and pay the penalty instead. It's such a fustercluck and no one, anywhere, knows for sure what's going to happen IRT Estate Recovery in the states that expanded Medicaid. And you can bet your last dollar they won't be apprising you of this if/when you are foolish enough to sign up for this free "care".
The "fiasco" as you call it, I believe whole-heartedly was planned to happen exactly this way. The final outcome, TBD. I am outraged that I worked, saved, delayed gratification, paid my taxes, and now they come up with this scheme to try and rob me of the years of labor I scrimped and saved to have in later years. The very fact that they target "older" Medi-Cal patients tells me this wasn't an accident. Generally, people in their 30s - 40s don't have much assets to steal, so they passed the law to ONLY target later year recipients to try and steal their hard-won savings. I'm beyond outraged at this point. I'm trying to figure out what action to take to try and protect my savings, but the way things keep changing by executive fiat (by the hour) who can plan anything?
Sorry Scam (that's you ... not a description of ObamaCare),
I thought I had it bad, but wow, after reading about your plight, I fell downright blessed.
There would be so many Pulitzers available if the the MoronMedia didn't have their mouths wrapped around the teat of .gov and Obama.
If by Pulitzers you mean assisted suicides, then yes, I guess I understand why nobody wants to investigate.
Yes, scam_MERS:
"The entire thing is a ill-disguised asset stripping scheme thought up by sociopathic criminals at the highest level."
P.S.
Maybe take a look at my previous reply to JR comparing Obamacare's treatment of the "rule of law" to how the MERS was set up and operated.
@ Bear, you're so right. What happened to investigative journalism? No one wants to tackle this? No takers out there? Are all of them bought off?
@ Rad-M, I read that, and you also probably figured out that my alias came from MERS, I used that name because MERS was one of the biggest scams of all time...until ObamaScare came along. I'd probably choose a different user name if I joined ZH today :)
Yeah, the only consistent thing appears to be that each scam_ is bigger and worse than the previous ones. Whither the Exponential Growth Of Organized Crime ??? How BIG can that get, before it finally collapses under its own excessive weight? I do not think anybody knows, but there is no reasonable doubt that that point must come, and despite there probably being considerable demand destruction before that finally happens in a BIG WAY, it must surely happen that such a system of triumphant frauds, destroying the rule of law upon which they were able to be built, must be its future fate, E V E N T U A L L Y ....
I'm missing the part about you buying health insurance. Didn't you do that? Did you expect other taxpayers to pay for you?
Sell some of those precious assets of yours, buy your own policy and f*ck MediCal or anyother corrupt government policies. Oh yes, and quit complaining about government corruption because you, buddy, are part of the problem.
Irene, I am quite capable of paying for my own medical care (notice, I said "care" and not so-called "insurance"). I have no need for a government sponsored scheme to separate me from my money. I can/will negotiate my medical needs directly with a doctor or hospital, paying in cash. The only coverage I might even remotely need is catastrophic coverage, which I am quite willing to pay for, without having my hand held by some government bureaucrat.
Due to the tone and attitude of your post, I will disregard the rest of your ad hominem remarks. Since you do not know me or my situation, yet are quite judgemental, your intellect speaks for itself without any further comment needed.
So, you've put aside, say $100k+, for a catastrophe? Or you're just playing the odds that nothing will ever happen to you?
Seriously, they go after your assets - according to what you wrote - after you die and for the amount they paid out. What's wrong with that?
Do you have any idea how many people use government services for, say, their Alzheimer parentsand and make sure that their parents' assets are tucked away before any 3-year look back period? Any ideas what it costs the states?
You don't like my attitude? I don't like your assuming other people like me are happy to pick up your tab when you've got the means to insure yourself.
"So, you've put aside, say $100k+, for a catastrophe?"
As a matter of fact, yes. And much, much more than that. That is not the point here. The point is, others have a choice to buy coverage or not, or pay a penalty. I am willing to pay the penalty, but I will not be forced into purchasing something that I don't want, don't need, and cannot remotely be considered "coverage". Medicaid is already overloaded as it is, without dragging millions more into it, I would think you'd be happy that someone of means such as myself would be resistant to being signed up for a program that is already massively overextended.
I cannot speak for what other people do, in your example of children that have parents with Alzheimer's hiding assets from the government. I take individual responsibility for what I do in my life, I cannot control (nor would I attempt to control) what you do with your life. I fail to see what your example of someone who is scamming the system has to with in my case. There is no similarity to my situation. I'm trying my hardest to not take advantage, and therefore leave an opening for someone who does not have the means to pay for medical care. What's not to like about that? Where, in any of my comments, do you read or infer that I'm asking you (or taxpayers) to pick up the tab for my medical care? Please point it out to me, because I have not even remotely suggested this - in fact, quite the opposite.
As for what is wrong with going after the estate of a deceased patient, there is one big issue of inequality. I might ask you, in a hypothetical example, someone has say, $1M in assets at age 40, and goes on MedicAid. If he dies at age 54 and 11 months, while using up $10M in MedicAid services, there is no Estate Recovery even possible, it is proscribed by law. However, if he lives one more month, to age 55 or as long as 64, they will come after his estate. Why the inequality? How can that be justified? I don't think you quite understand the situation, nor have you researched this at all. That's okay, I don't expect everyone to know everything that is happening WRT this law. However, I do not attack people for being uninformed.
Don't forget, the people in the exchanges have the option to opt-out and pay a penalty. People that find themselves qualified for MedicAid may (I have not verified this, BTW) have no such option. Why this inequality, if it does indeed exist? I have already told you I am willing to pay the penalty, opt-out, and pay cash. Again, what's not to like about that? It saves taxpayer money and helps unburden a socialist program. Would you rather persons of means such as myself go on the taxpayer dole, as you seem to insist? Don't forget, I have no option to go onto the exchanges because my income is very low, while I have a large amount of assets.
IOW, if I had a choice, and I freely chose to go on MedicAid, then I would not have the same qualms about Estate Recovery. It would then be my choice to use what amounts to a loan to obtain medical service (although it's still not just, right, or fair that someone below age 55 gets off scot-free) but this should be a choice, not by force!
Maybe now you understand the situation better and realize it would be better to refrain from being so judgemental before you know what you are discussing.
BTW: I did not red-arrow you. You are entitled to your opinion, although I may not agree. If I was going to red-arrow you, I would have done it much earlier. It's interesting to see how others on the forum feel about it.
> Or you're just playing the odds that nothing will ever happen to you?
Taking risk which is not socialized is apparently becoming illegal.
Goddamned fascists.
Non Passaran,
Apparently so. That's why I call this an asset-stripping scheme. I am quite healthy for my age, although I know, obviously, at some point in my life I will need health care. That's why I have saved, prepared, and readied myself for all these years. I am not rich but I am quite capable of paying my own way without the taxpayer's help. I have no desire to go on the dole, onto a worthless socialized health care program such as MedicAid. The goverment would love to force me to take their second-class HC and then try to rape my estate when I'm gone for this "care". I reject this.
I tried to tell you all. There is no "law", no "Constitution" and no "United States" since the NWO musceled in an ineligible British born (sired by Barack Obama Sr., a Kenyan, non US Citizen British subject, who was in the US on a student VISA, then deported) non natural born Citizen as Presdident. Foreign influence then arrived in the WH, and when the executor of the laws is an illegal entity, then there is no "law", and the "law" is only what evil men say it is.
Yank the Criminal domestic enemy Obama from the Oval Office and we will begin the doad back to the restoration of the Republic.
There has been no law, no constitution, since Kennedy was offed. That's WHY he was offed.
Shadows.
this is a drunk post, so you know the truth comes.
obamacare/ACA is the biggest joke since slice bread.
anyone who thinks obama is a socialist needs head examined.
the united states govt. allows corporations to rape it.
i like corporations, but balance is the soupe du jour
Obama deep down is a Saul Alinsky died in the wool Marxist just like his daddy. It's not hard to see if you do some research on his background. Whether he is showing it now for everyone to see is largely irrelevant. I see his game plan is to take over the US health care industry which amounts to about 20% of the US GDP. The US health care system has always been the best in the world though expensive. Nationalizing 20% of the economy and putting a large portion of private business out of business is the classic first step of all Marxist. Right now we are in the very early stage of that happening.
When was the last time a Marxist announced his true intentions. They never do.
Marxists were tools of the banksters, and so, crucially funded by them. Obama obviously is too. The banksters use every convient "ism" in rotation, in order to advance their overall agenda. It is almost impossible to become or survive as a successful politician other than being a puppet for the banksters, who job is to fool enough of the muppets enough of the time.
...and the wheels on the bus go round and round as history keeps repeating itself. How to break this negative feedback cycle of life when it seems there must be politicians if there is to be government, and all countries are governed? Quality people are too good to become politicians, usually, and if one does "make it" he/she becomes "made" sooner or later by the banksters. Yes, there have quality politicians in history, but that is long past. Long term it seems quality government is unsustainable. Money will always rule in the end. Is it possible to have a system, a market, a government, without banks? I would think so. Would it ever happen, no...because the money will dictate that there will be banks...and the wheels on the bus go round and round. Just try not to get run over.
"Just try not to get run over."
Good advice, The Joker.
It is getting harder to stay out from underneath the wheels of that "bus," which I describe as a runaway fascist plutocracy juggernaut, that is turning more of We the People into its road kill.
you both really think obama is a marxist?
he's a really ineffective one....
Let us also not forget the aid he received from the Marxist on the SCOTUS who labeled coercion as a "tax" and wiped his ass with the Constitution.
Different flavors, same Marxists.
Speaking of announcing full blown Marxism...
Why not just allow the EPA to regulate and seize any piece of land in the country (for the children, of course)?
http://www.bna.com/epa-corps-propose-n17179879956/
Daddy Frank Marshall Davis was a card carrying communist. The official father was an anti-colonialist (i.e. rabidly anti Western) socialist. Obama carries both in his heart and soul.
anyone know what happenned to marla? muffi benson-perella? equity private?
send a signal :-/
like dj night, yo!
Obama to insurance companies: "Lay off the policy cancellations until after the elections!"
Maybe this will make people pay attention the next time they vote and put down the playstation crack pipe and the guide to miley cyrus' next twerking concert.
HA HA HA HA HA HA!
Now that's funny.
Not a chance.
This administration is a DISGRACE!! Only thing that can sve you now (sarcasm!) is this funny video
"JIM CRAMER'S TERRIBLE STOCK PICKS--MUST SEE!" Just CLick Below and LAUGH!!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhwplunz7-I
This administration is a DISGRACE!! Only thing that can sve you now (sarcasm!) is this funny video
"JIM CRAMER'S TERRIBLE STOCK PICKS--MUST SEE!" Just CLick Below and LAUGH!!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhwplunz7-I
FUCK OFF!
Why should he fuck off? He's correct. This Administration is a disgrace, just like its predecessor. That freak monkey Cramer Goldman Sacks crapper is their cheerleader.
The ACA is a cruise missile, programmed by Cloward and Piven.
It's target is the entire US Economy.
The warhead is nuclear, and when it hits, the US Economy will be obliterated.
Bath House Barry will assume an open, declared Dictatorship.
The result is a breakdown in the rule of law and an arbitrary system in which the government operates, not according to predictable standards and meaningful rules, but according to political whim and in arbitrary, day-to-day, ad hoc manner.
It is astounding that so many (outside of ZH) don't see the importance of this fact. If the opposition sits back & allows this it sets a (further) precedent that will nullify any future resistance. The fact that he is doing this "for the people" is irrelevant. If this country is to retain any semblance of the rule of law, he cannot be allowed to "fix" this, even temporarily, outside of the ACA law as it was passed.
single payer! playa!
He does not have the authority to not enforce the law. That is am impeachable offense.
Who in congress has the balls to call his bluff because I am sure the cancellations will continue.
How many CEOs' sons and daughters cannot find jobs in the US? lol I know one. 23, holds a patent, cannot find a job. Gets to stay on whose insurance policy?
Substitute privatizer for bureaucrat?
http://www.multiurl.com/la/Just_Another_Privatization_Like_Ending_Net_Ne...
Getting Fewer On Exchange
Might Be Seen Working As A
Form Of System "Under-utilization,"
Or Inappropriate Separation
From Service, Or A Cheap
Simpson-Bowles Aligned
Gimmick, But The Exchanges
Nonetheless Require A Minimum
Population To Function.
(Otherwise, speaking of pools,
it'd be like sitting in a
Jaccuzi filled with lukewarm
water.)
Some special interest group
reps are choosing or forgetting
to mention That
Risk Drives Eligibility For Subsidy
(The Very Architecture Of
Socializing (ONLY) The Cost.)
Unreimbursed Cost Is Built
Into Everyone's Premiums
Already.
My Own
Premium Increase Off Exchange
(Nominally Apx. 37%, But Allowing
For A Slight Reduction In
Deductible Guesstimating
Something North Of 25%
Risk-Me To Risk-Me) Is Not
Close To Fully Justified,
I feel, cause
1:
unreimbursed cost is already
built into everyone's premiums,
plus, the thing before that:
risk is shifted to the taxpayer.
Delaying Implementing On Exchange
Means Less Provision For Need,
More ~Simpson Bowles,
With The Above Premium
Hike Simultaneously.
What A Deal.
What A Deal.
The bundle above makes reference
to a few other privatizations.
In my own case, I didn't have
an OnExchange equivalent to my
M.D. pool.
But I don't think medical care
has to be so class based.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCy5WQ9S4c0
Tertiary doctors practice in
famous and not famous hospitals.
Risk equalized, properly enabled,
people can enter a mush.
The Potential For Profiteering
From Pinched System Coverage
Supply Resonates With
Mid-Stream Oil Profiteering
During The Oil Shocks.
As I'm Actually Joining The
Ice Breakers' Fray (Who's
Favored Pre-100% Renewables)
In Energy.
I Could Revisit This.
"has to originate in the house".........but did it anyway. Rules no longer apply. Of course they never did. It's hard telling what these fuckheads talk about behind closed doors. Time to send in citizen mini bots.
Who would down vote resurger's eloquent comment?
Fiat currency.....
Fiat law enforcement...
I'm still waiting for a bankster to go to jail.
Only insider whistle blowers of bank corruption go to jail.
Answer to what does it mean: It means more people hate congress and the president even more, but keep voting for the same recycled cat vomit anyway. In my Texas we are baffeled by how Obama exists. Nothing in DC is honest or really even American in spirit.
Excellent legal beagle statement on the State we are in = lawless in any meaningful sense of law.
The law is intended to prevent or restrain caprice - most especially the caprice of powerbrokers, eg batshit crazy career politicians and their compliant bureaucrats who take money with both hands...from lobbyists, taxpayers, the poor...and Party on without any consequences for their actions, and exempting themselves from the un-Affordable Care Act, as just one example of their venal ways.
This is what you get with that anything goes 'globalist' Internationale where everyone is encouraged to think that it's ok to privatise good stuff, and socialise bad stuff. Eejits.
I give two thumbs up to Tyler for the elegant concise analysis and commentary on the core problem in the ACA.
I have taken several exams on subsections of the ACA and not one person knows how bad this thing is. It is full of a thousand little daggers and it is not really about healthcare at all. It is about power first and last. When you understand that you understand why Obama and the defenders are not really so concerned about it working and why it was not a priority. The priority is to own the economic sector and the people who go with it.
Just say no.
Or say nothing, and do nothing.
That is a peasant or Politburo mentality.
I knew you were a yes man.
Sure. Right. Saying "no" to authorities, and refusing orders is "peasant mentality". Not sure how you manage to invert things completely, but... well... there you go! George Orwell?
This is federal government theatre designed to frustrate the law-abiding. Even if you want to comply you may not be able to afford to comply. As in all magic shows, keep your eye on the other hand.
Obama, just back from an all night round table meeting with the Mayor of Toronto decided through executive fiat to suspoend the individual mandate law for a year. Bleary eyed from passing the crack pipe and exhausted from the male hookers, he horribly missed the message his handlers prepared for his teleprompted release to their owned press by speaking his own words.
This is getting far more serious than just Obamacare. This communist prick thinks that he can write/change laws at his own discretion. Lyin'King has completely ignored the fact that the Constitution gives this authority only to Congress, he is just the adminstrator. If the country allows this bastard to create law at whim, then he has successfully buried the Constitution and our country.