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Nation's Largest Healthcare Provider Cuts Thousands Of Doctors; Blames Government

Tyler Durden's picture


UnitedHealth, the nation's largest provider of privately managed Medicare Advantage plans, has dropped thousands of doctors from its networks in recent weeks citing "substantial funding pressure from the federal government." The WSJ reports that physician groups are protesting as many elderly patients are now unsure about whether they need to switch plans to keep seeing their doctors. Doctors in at least 10 states have received termination letters, some citing "significant changes and pressures in the health-care environment." UnitedHealth said its provider networks are always changing and that it expects its Medicare Advantage network "to be 85% to 90% of its current size by the end of 2014," due to the new health law (Obamacare). More job creation?



Via WSJ,



The company said it is managing its network, in part, to provide more value for members, particularly given Medicare's new five-star rating system that ties bonus payments for insurers to certain measures of cost and quality.


"That's what's driving our actions," said Austin Pittman, president of UnitedHealth's networks. He also said, "It's no secret that we are under substantial funding pressure from the federal government."




Medicare Advantage, an alternative to traditional Medicare, combines hospital and doctor coverage and often includes prescription drugs and perks like gym memberships. Enrollment has more than doubled since 2004 to 13 million in 2012, which represents about 27% of Americans on Medicare.


The federal government pays private insurers a per-capita fee to manage the benefits. The rate is currently about 12% more than the average Medicare patient spends annually. The Obama administration plans to cut those extra payments to insurers by about $150 billion over the next 10 years to help pay for the health law. Some experts expect enrollment in Medicare Advantage plans to decline sharply if that occurs.




UnitedHealth is the biggest player, with nearly three million members in Advantage plans, many of them sold under the AARP brand. The company says it had over 350,000 doctors in its Advantage provider networks.




"Instead of a scalpel, United is using a chain saw," said Michael Saffir, a rehabilitation specialist and president of the Connecticut State Medical Society, which estimates the insurer has cut 2,200 doctors across the state.




A spokeswoman for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said CMS is reviewing UnitedHealth's and other provider's networks "to ensure that beneficiaries have full, transparent and timely information and access to needed care."


"We recognize that change is hard," said Mr. Pittman. "This is about meeting the needs of patients in specific geographic areas, improving the quality and sustainability of our networks and deepening our relationships with providers over the long term." The company said it had no comment about the investigations.



So yet another unintended (and yet foreseeable) consequence of government intervention in free-markets...

"Fewer practitioners mean longer waits, longer drives, less convenience,"


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Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:20 | 4160842 tsx500
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Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:29 | 4160852 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

"If you like your doctor you can't keep your doctor..."


(If you lose your medical records as a result of the continuing fiasco don't worry... the NSA has a copy)

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:40 | 4160877 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Obamacare is an utter failure, but United Health's claims that Obamacare is hurting its bottom line are laughable.  Look at their two year stock chart.;range=2y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Income is up substantially.

You've got to love these big companies that just want an excuse to increase profits even more by sticking it to the workers (in this case, doctors).  I know, let's blame the legislation we co-wrote!  Even ZH will buy it!

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:42 | 4160892 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Communities/groups should just band together and hire GPs under contract to handle the needs of the group for a healthy, straight salary (waaay cheaper).

I'm guessing that this arrangement would be forbidden under NaziCare.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:50 | 4160905 knukles
knukles's picture

The R's oughta just look at the Obieman and the D's and now say...
Look, we tried our best to pass a law, which got great bipartisan support, to help people keep the plans they liked.
Especially relevant after Obieman said he'd order the same thing, but he has not the power to unilaterally do so....
(So much for the Constitutional Lawyer Knowledge... which he is not...)
... so it appears that he neither wants the law as it is, nor wants it fixed...

... therefore it appears He would like us (the R's) to repeal it and just make it go away, saving him any further embarrassment...
.... which would probably be a fine and dandy bipartisan effort in front of elections...

OK all in favor of repealing the ACA, raise their leg and pee on Ms Sebaceous...

Do Not Negotiate with Marxists

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:24 | 4161007 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Couldn't have asked for a better example...

Milton Friedman explodes the myth that government can provide goods and services at no one's expense.

The free lunch myth

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:51 | 4161072 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Government is the one giving healthcare practitioners professional protection and subsidies.


Medical Residency is paid by medicare.


Humans don't need to live past 85. But at each birth and death, Doctors are milking it.


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:20 | 4161116 orez65
orez65's picture

"Humans don't need to live past 85"

You don't need to live past now, shithead.

I know a lot of people that are over 85 and are living full lives and HELPING YOUNGER people.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:58 | 4161198 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. even if he quits, gets fired, or out right dies.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:37 | 4161417 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

I know a lot of people that are over 85 and are living full lives and HELPING YOUNGER people.


helping younger ones would be die when the time is due and not drag out the ending wasting family wealth on deathcare nursing homes or onyl to increase life by 1 more year at age 104 to 105. 

Live your lives to the fullest doesn't mean longass drawn out life. In Japan, thousands of elders in 110+ basically committ suicide because their own grandchildren have passed away.


If you want to live past nature's expiration date of 85, then YOU PAY. 

Stop taking opportunities from young Americans by wasting nation's resources in eldercare instead of education.


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 06:02 | 4162037 Truthseeker2
Truthseeker2's picture
Obamacare: Was the ACA a planned legislative disaster?



“But we have to pass the [health care] bill so that you can find out what’s in it….”
— Spoken by Nancy Pelosi in March 2010 when she was Speaker of the House


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 07:18 | 4162072 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Death panels......for doctors.


Things seem to be accelerating at a rapid pace here.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 08:33 | 4162104 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Al, I think we can figure out a better way to do this without going all "Logans Run" on our own population.  Your thinking implies we should turn to government and "pass a law".  Aafter all, how else could you accomplish what you are suggesting?  I think I've had about enough government meddling in my life already.  I want LESS of that kind of crap, not MORE.


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 11:59 | 4162358 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

He's right. Live as long as you CAN LIVE. 10 years of being a medical vegable is a nightmare. My grandfather is 90, but he still lives and takes care of himself. His answer to a nursing home is "did I just have a baby?" Americans live shitty lives, and are afraid answering for it. 

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:04 | 4161214 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

That is awesome. How are they helping the younger people?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:59 | 4161331 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> How are they helping the younger people?

My grandfather lived to be 89. He took me in as a child when he was in his late 70's.  He taught me many things in those last four years of his life that some would dismiss as wasted life.  He made the difference between a throw away child and a productive member of society.

It's just my opinion, but a royal fuck you to the folks who think they can be the judge of when life is valuable or not.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:13 | 4161362 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Thanks for helping to answer my question. 

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:38 | 4161420 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

I am glad that your grandfather was able to give you the love and nurturing that you deserved and I am sure that you were a great blessing to him and gave him a purpose to keep going. You were both very fortunate.

Unfortunately our compassionate government has made it everybodys business whether a life is valuable or not since these life/death/quality of life decisions more often than not lay a claim to resources earned by others. There are plenty of well-off people enjoying their golden years that not a burden to society. However, there is a whole industry using the elderly as conduit to siphon wealth from the public purse to their bank account. There was a time in our history when that was not possible.

There are elderly who do not want to die and want every means possible used to save their lives. To what end? To allow them do get a few more months of TV in? If it is their money and think that it is a wise choice, so be it. Great. If it is not their money, then it is ours or our childrens future labor paying for it. This is problematic to me. 

I do not want to outlive the resources that I have accumulated. I am not elderly, but have lived a good, full life with many experiences. I am not afraid of death and would not have any qualms leaving as I type this sentence. Medicare and medicaid at their current and anticipated trajectories are unsustainable. But there are people making a good living with the current system, so it will keep going for some time.



Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:43 | 4161428 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

social wealth is for social benefit.

How did your grandfather help you is your business so you should pay if he made so much of a difference in your life.


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 22:27 | 4161638 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

You are basing a person's worth by age, not condition.  Some people are worn out at 60, some still humping it hard at 90.  Picking an arbitrary age to consider someone worthless is horseshit, which, I guess, is what one would expect to emanate from a horse's ass.



Sun, 11/17/2013 - 01:17 | 4161867 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

can we check your philosophy at 84? 

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:13 | 4161230 BigRedRider
BigRedRider's picture

Ummmm…ahhhhh…ummmm…Nope. I got nothin.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:17 | 4161109 The Joker
The Joker's picture

Oh Knukles, knukles, knukles.  I'm dissappointed.  I always thought you were one of the more clever commentators here but alas you have been duped into thinking exactly what they want you to think too.

There is no difference between the Rs and the Ds, they all follow the same bought and paid for agenda, they just have different methods.  They want you to think they are different.

The Ds nor Obama are Marxists, they aren't trying to serve the people.  They are fascists, serving the rich and the giant corporations.  They want you to think they are marxists.

They are all clowns under the big tent in this circus.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:50 | 4160908 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Chinese doctors preferably since they will gladly render superior service at 1/10th the cost.

Fuck the AMA doctor's cartel... and fuck those $500/hr lawyers and the ABA...

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:52 | 4160912 knukles
knukles's picture

Are you needling me?


...get it... needle... acupuncture... Chinee docs?...


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:01 | 4160929 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

I'm not entirely sure if acupuncture is a real therapy or some sort of sadistic wayward Voodoo ritual.

Personally I'm afraid of needles and prefer "hookahs and hookers" for relief of whatever ails me...  ;)

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:27 | 4161017 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

Funny you mention this. I am too also afraid of needles. However, after trying and failing repeatedly to knock up my wife over the last 5 years, we went together for acupuncture treatments. Her actualy "fertility" doc (cartel-card holder) told her a year ago she had a .05% chance of getting pregnant. He would gladly take our thousands tho to try. Yeah, two months later, voodoo make bun in oven. ;) I'll take the Chinese medicine any day. Seems to work better in my book. Also, my posture is better and I seem to be less stressed. Should try it sometime.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:01 | 4161209 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

had a pinched nerve in my neck that was killing me...making my arm hurt,elbow etc. no pain killer touched it. chiropractor couldnt fix it. one session of accupuncture with a total of three jabs and it was fixed. done by a cartel doctor who happened to be chinese and listened to what i told him, and he did it perfect. he did have experience with it in his native land.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 02:19 | 4161938 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Did the accupuncture doctor put a needle through your pee pee?  I heard that works.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:48 | 4161063 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

You spelled 'Chireese' wrong.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:38 | 4161151 max2205
max2205's picture

And here I thought we didn't have enough Drs ....all those Dr Bombays here....India is going to have a recession for new Drs

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:38 | 4161152 max2205
max2205's picture

And here I thought we didn't have enough Drs ....all those Dr Bombays here....India is going to have a recession for new Drs

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:52 | 4160914 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Ya gotta find some way to get rid of these old geezers. Adding more stress and hardship to their lives is one way to help push them into the grave.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:57 | 4160926 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

"Ya gotta find some way to get rid of these old geezers."

They're taking all the jobs.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:05 | 4160957 zhandax
zhandax's picture

I certainly hope both of you are referring to the old geezers in DC in which case you are both correct.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:35 | 4161012 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Well, before everyone gets their panties in a bunch over my comment, yes they are looking to eliminate the old and sick under NaziCare.

Just like the Nazi's used every device available to rid Germany of the feeble and useless they've got to find a way to prune down the sheer magnitude of baby boomers that will be retiring over the next 20 to 25 years.

Because of the economy a lot of boomers are already putting a strain on SS by not waiting until the age when they can collect full benefits. Not everyone 55 and over is retaining their jobs. They're just not losing their jobs at the same rate as other age groups. But, I can tell you that once you're out the door, very few other places are willing to take in an aging boomer.

If boomers are expecting to live happily into their 80's and 90's while taking advantage of Medicare to keep them going, they are in for a rude surprise.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:52 | 4161073 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

I would not doubt for a moment that this whole Obamacare horror was planned long ago under Agenda 21.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:41 | 4161044 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

I should have put a sarcasm tag in there. I was jokingly referring to how the employment scene seems to be only growing for older folks that would prefer to be retiring.


As for DC, I'm not discriminating, treason is treason regardless the age of the criminal.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:28 | 4161135 orez65
orez65's picture

"Ya gotta find some way to get rid of these old geezers."

Us, "old geezers" can kick your ass anytime and as often as we want.

We got the knowledge, the wisdom and the capital to do it.

Fuck you, asshole!!

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:16 | 4160916 NIHILIST CIPHER


Single payor system would blow your plan out of the water, you see it will be against the law for anyone or municipality to pay for the muppets doctor/hospital bills. ONLY the government would have authortiy to pay.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:26 | 4161015 texas sandman
texas sandman's picture


Yup, those single payor systems are the cat's meow!

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:07 | 4161222 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

must read link


thank you

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:49 | 4160906 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

boo-hoooo. "let them eat rand" complaining about "the bottom line approach." Phuck you dipshit. you're right up there with Rahmbo and his psycho-pathetic nut job butt buddies. the Dem's now discover the true meaning of "Medi-scare" as now "it's the Doctors are themselves being kicked to the curb"? perhaps we could start by say...putting doctors on the payroll and making sure they're "accounted for" in our "health plan"? no? yes? maybe? not guaranteeing care of course...but at least the Doctor is being cared for in some way. as they say of lawyers "there are never too many good ones" and it's not like there is a shortage it a monetization scheme again?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:02 | 4160938 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So what part of the fact that UnitedHealth is lying about the reason for terminating doctors don't you understand?  Take off the Team glasses fuckhead.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:24 | 4161010 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

United is terminating all the physicians as a negotiating tactic, all the major insurers do this. Some groups who have a lot of UNH lives covered will cave and sign a contract for lower rate. United is also hoping that patients will beg their doctors to stay in network and bring pressure on physicians to take less.
FWIW, BC/BS went all in on Obamacare and they are going to take it up the ass if it falls apart. Keep this in mind when picking new insurance coverage.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:36 | 4161029 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Exactly right.  Obamacare is further consolidating the power of the largest and most cut-throat insurance companies.  Insurance companies will get more money, doctors will receive less money, and we the people will get less care.   All that anyone needs to do is look at who wrote the legislation (insurance companies).  But of course in MSM the debate completely ignores this little detail and the sheep argue about socialism.  

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:23 | 4161125 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Many Drs. here are opting out of the parasitic system. Cash up front & I don't blame them. They're squeezed on reimbursements & malpractice insurance premiums.

Someone mentioned cancer treatment centers in TX in another post. I was told the other day by a sleep specialist that TX is the biggest cancer cluster in the USSA.  $300K per patient that's worth. I asked if he thought it was due to atrazine & he didn't know. Piqued my curiosity, so I looked up clusters of illness/disease. There's certain places in this country that you might want to choose to stay away from according to your gender. Clusters of breast & prostate cancer all over the place. 

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:44 | 4161167 max2205
max2205's picture

That's where the aged retire...what'd you expect...check FL and the rest

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:52 | 4160913 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

United Health is managing their network of doctors just like they are managing the IT network for ZeroCare.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:30 | 4161026 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:59 | 4160934 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Yawn. Try finding a doctor to take a new patient with Medicare Advantage.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:03 | 4162714 bh2
bh2's picture

Despite the profit, UH provides substantially more delivered services than standard Medicare.

You may wish to consider how that's possible if the government system were actually more cost-efficient -- a continuing claim by those who regard single-payer to be a silver bullet.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:04 | 4160954 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Because ... Obama!

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:13 | 4160984 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4160858 texas sandman
texas sandman's picture

If you like your.........awwww, forget it.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:33 | 4160872 remain calm
remain calm's picture

Interesting given the over abundance of doctors.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:51 | 4160909 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"yep" and "exactly."

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:53 | 4161316 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

they pay for sanitary napkins too??

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:23 | 4160847 Lokking4AnEdge
Lokking4AnEdge's picture

..."if you like your President-you can keep it..."

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:56 | 4160923 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

...but if I don't like my president, can I put him in a burlap sack, and practice my golf swing on said sad sac all weekend?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:57 | 4160931 cpzimmon
cpzimmon's picture

If you like your shit you can keep your shit. Don't thank was an easy fix.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:00 | 4160932 cpzimmon
cpzimmon's picture

Removed. Double entry.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:33 | 4160995 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

these words you speak of,... are those of hillary...

hillary promised this in the 2008 primaries

hillary was in charge of a fail'd health-care plan when her idiot husband was in his first term. giving her full authority to oversee it's implementation. everybody quit or else she fired them! it was a disaster period!

obama wanted to give her a seat on the supreme court to get her out his hair. her nominaton would have been easy, but she's got big plans-- like running for the POTUS in 2016 and chelsea (2024) as the dynasty evolves! 

making her SOS was a Benghazi disaster along with everything she ever touched. she's a warmonger, period!

actually. richard holbooke did all her heavy-lifting in AfPak... or is it PakAf now. richard holbrooke is dead now--- a great man who never got the respect he was do by obi1 or hillarity2

the bottom line is that hillay was in a secret-proxy-war (political infighting/stabbing) for the obama's health-care plan that probaby was sabotaged by bill/hill and his nafarious 'save-the-world' clinton initiative ($$$'s for hillary's 2016 political financial coffers) entourage of political cronies on capital-hill!

so try not to be too hard on obi1-- think of Iran, and the historical precedence it will set for the ME! ... and our economy!?!


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:24 | 4160850 toady
toady's picture

All part of the plan... Thousands of inscrutable clauses in the ACA. Just keep pulling a new one out of the hat, each time getting worse and worse... Then they will be begging &screaming for single payer.

And Obama will ride to their rescue.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:03 | 4160942 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I think some people are starting to wake up to the fact that they're pissing down our backs and telling us its raining.  Single payer is going to take them a while longer.  Nobody's going to support the government completely taking over healthcare so shortly after this fiasco.  Give it a generation and we'll get there, though.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:03 | 4160949 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Sooooo, to really stick it to Obummer we need to make ACA last until 2017?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:04 | 4160953 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

It's Cloward-Piven time, grab your ankles!

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:25 | 4160851 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Everyday it gets worse. This is what happens when you elect someone president based on the color of their skin. Good job you trendy hipsters.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:29 | 4160863 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

We do not vote for half crackers in my hood.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:32 | 4160870 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Watts? Detroit? Camden?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:37 | 4160876 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

Whatever happened to this word? It's been around a couple few hundred years.

MULATTO: the first-generation offspring of a black person and a white person  a person of mixed white and black ancestry.
Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:41 | 4160888 toady
toady's picture

They call them High Yellow now.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:03 | 4160946 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

You're not supposed to judge the bitch on the color of his skin, you're supposed to judge him on his character, or lack thereof.

So did we get a finger wag from him when he claimed he didn't have sex with our health care plans

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:41 | 4161041 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

do you mean Old Yeller'  ?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4160854 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

Being that I just quit my job in the Healthcare/IT sector for a software who develops and "supports" EHR's, (and timed my exit rather well..thank you); I foresee the following happening now and escalating beyond control regardless of "Deer", Dear Leader's attempt to use an "undo" button which does not fucking exist:

1) Cash only Doctors. (Trending).

2) 800 + EMR/EHR Vendors totally vanishing.

3) Many and I mean MANY unneeded and unnecessary  deaths due to this government's incompetence.

4) Mass layoffs in the health sector and mass closures of all types of "care" facilities.

5) Rioting in the streets.

Did I miss anything else?

Fuck the medical cartel, they have what's coming to them!


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:32 | 4160868 uncle.bigs
uncle.bigs's picture

Here's what I see:

1.  Medicare Advantage plans are a scam.  They will do anything they can to deny seniors health care.  Stay out of them.  Get Medigap coverage or just go with basic Medicare.


2.  Hospital profits are going to skyrocket.  They will now be getting paid for everything instead of writing off 30% of billings.  Buy HCA.


3.  Doctor wait times are going to skyrocket.  It may take weeks to get into a doctor.  



Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:57 | 4160927 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I agree with this...though it is still speculative. in other words "don't short the market" approach to health care now meets "the payment mechanism." something tells me "beer and cigarettes" won't cut it.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 02:55 | 4161959 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Doctor wait times are going to skyrocket.

The smart doctors are already hiring Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants to do the heavy lifting for them.  The doctors see the cash patients and the hirelings see the Medicare and Medicaid patients.

It will take a while to get sorted out.  But it will get sorted out.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:44 | 4160897 texas sandman
texas sandman's picture

Just the simple fact that the Medical Industrial complex has bloated to over 16% of GDP should be a warning signal to anyone with 2 brain cells ro rub together.


At the risk of repeating myself:

1. Close all monopoly loopholes under Sherman and Clayton Acts for pharma and medical industry.

2.  Close down all government third payors...Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

3.  Shut down the FDA?

By closing monopoly protections, if you want to go to Mexico, Canada, Costa Rica or Belarus to get prescription drugs, so be it.  If the pharmas want to sell drugs, make them affordable to the average man's income.


If a heart procedure costs $103, 000 at the Cleveland Institute or whatever it's called, why can you get the same procedure in India for $1, 500?   Market competition will bring down costs in the medical market much faster and dramatically than trying to do it with the insurance market.  A catastrophic health insurance plan, when a well baby delivery including hospital stay costs only $1, 100 should cost no more than a couple hundred dollars a year, if that.


Then, make health savings accounts vcoluntary and totally tax deductible.  If a family of 4 put half of what they spend monthly at present for health insurance into a HSA, in a year they'd have more than enough money to cover 90% of their yearly health care needs, if pricing is based on the market and people's ability to pay.  


Every other "solution" bandied about solves none of the cost issues, othernthan less coverage and service for more money.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:57 | 4160925 knukles
knukles's picture


Yes and close the FDA and USDA...
aka:  helpful packaging like:

AAAA Jumbo Super-size Prized Bigasyomommasbutt Maine Black Tender Packed in Organic All Natural Clam Juice New Season Pig Clitorises.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:16 | 4160988 zhandax
zhandax's picture

The intro to this piece shows where to start with the axe....

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:16 | 4160991 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

If you are going to close the FDA and USDA, could you close the fed too? Probably need to close NOAA as well. I love their website but they are buying too much ammunition.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:30 | 4161027 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

They have to have enough bullets to shoot all the AGW deniers.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:01 | 4161087 The Joker
The Joker's picture

NOAA is buying bullets???  Why?  To put whales out their misery?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:40 | 4161040 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

That sounds tasty enough to make even VD turn carnivore.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:00 | 4161086 The Joker
The Joker's picture

One of my ancestors was a midwife in the late 19th century.  Delivered thousands of babies in peoples own homes for hardly any charge at all.  People have been sick and having babies since man began.  Hospitals merely exploit.

The FDA is corrupt and does more harm than good.  No question about shutting them down.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 02:59 | 4161961 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Women have been having babies and dying in the process since man began.  Hospitals mitigate that reality.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:04 | 4160955 NIHILIST CIPHER

caveman93             Points (3) and (5) on your list are exactly what the ruling elites want most. They wont be happy until our present 7BN is reduced to around 2BN and riots in the street give them the green light to do all manor of nasty things. NEVER WASTE A GOOD CRISIS.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:11 | 4160975 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture


I agree completely about cash only doctors, I think I am heading that direction.
EMR will eventually be dominated by the first vendor who will create a product that can be used effectively at the bedside.
For number 3, are we going to start another war somewhere?
Mass layoffs? I think not. Somebody has to wipe butts and treat bedsores

Nice avatar.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:38 | 4161037 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

Thanks! ;) Yeah, 3 and 5 are an enigma to me in some ways but I can tell you I certainly did not like being in that field of work for sure. Seemed very dirty to me. Could it be the 2+ TRILLION floating around iin it? It's still amazing to me how some of these providers were suckered into getting an overly expensive software system so they could get 2% back on Medicare/Medicaid reimbursements. Talk about carrot and the stick...geez.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 03:12 | 4161974 RichardP
RichardP's picture

It's still amazing to me how some of these providers were suckered into getting an overly expensive software system so they could get 2% back on Medicare/Medicaid reimbursements.

You were in Healthcare IT and did not know that the government gave / is giving those same doctors $45,000 and up to purchase these monstrosities?  Suddenly, everybody has an EHR for sale for $50,000, whether it is worth it or not.

If the doctor does it right, the EHR costs him nothing out of his pocket.  If the doctor doesn't get the EHR, the reduced Medicare reimbursements will come out of his pocket.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:49 | 4161064 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

I would also add skyrocketing personal BK's and lower life expectancy.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4160859 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Bend over...farther...just a bit farther...

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:29 | 4160864 Silver_K-9
Silver_K-9's picture

And more deaths.. (Probably the plan all along) #DeathPanels

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:42 | 4160893 knukles
knukles's picture


Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:33 | 4160873 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

"This is about meeting the needs of patients in specific geographic areas, improving the quality and sustainability of our networks and deepening our relationships with providers over the long term." 


It's just words. Do words need to mean anything anymore?

Most abused words in Medical-

1) Patient Outcomes

2) Relationships

3) Point of Care


5) PHI

6) Privacy

7) Security

8) Bill of Rights

9) Patient Safety

10) Affordable

Oh fuck, let's not forget "CHOICE" too while I'm at it!

Get me off of this rock please. I'm done here.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 03:16 | 4161976 RichardP
RichardP's picture

I'm done here.

Not if you are waiting for someone else to get you off of this rock.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:38 | 4160884 whatthecurtains
whatthecurtains's picture

As Oprah said "they're racists!!!"

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:43 | 4160896 knukles
knukles's picture

...and must die for it...

Don't look at me, she said it....

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:10 | 4160968 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Shall they frog march us to the pits and put a bullet in the back of our heads before covering us with dirt?

Where's that picture ZH attached to one of its postings that a few whiners cried about?

No wonder all those FEMA camps have plastic caskets that can hold up to six bodies, its gonna be a bloody mess.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:12 | 4160977 NIHILIST CIPHER

knukles               I saw that headline on Drudge and I thought . well Oprah should go first cause she be a bigger rayciss than most whiteys. 

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:13 | 4160982 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

You can take the trash out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the trash.

And apparently with a billion dollars of net worth you can't buy class, or even a cheap imitation of it.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:42 | 4160891 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture


Now the administration has taken it to absurd, offering to make insurance companies "whole" for reissuing cancelled policies.

They neglected to tell you the taxpayer is gonna foot the bill for that one to.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:49 | 4160898 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

The main (obvious? key!) ingredient to a successful rollout of 'ObamaCare' is to put the emphasis wholly on preventive maintenance,... and not on a placebo`lized (`Nostrum  de`la`faux naif) panacea?!?

Band-aids are an expensive form of amputation when the cure is all in your head?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 16:52 | 4160915 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

OT but relative. I guess ALL dissent has now been criminalized and now companies are going to hit you to the max financially.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:14 | 4160986 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Go Galt, it's the only solution. That women only cares because her credit report got trashed. Well, don't borrow money, problem solved.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:04 | 4161093 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

That women?

Geez, that's the 2nd misogynist remark I've read of yours. Did your mother burn you with cigarettes?

So, it's OK to trash someone's credit report? Where TF does gender even play here?

You're a real mouth breathing knuckle dragger. 

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:16 | 4161238 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Don't confuse truth with misogynist. The feminists have blinded you. I said women, you went overboard.

If you go Galt, you don't need or care what a credit report (a mechanism used to control you) says.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:14 | 4160985 Lokking4AnEdge
Lokking4AnEdge's picture

But the good news can keep your pre-existing conditions...............

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:18 | 4160996 Abby Normal
Abby Normal's picture

These doctors should consider themselves lucky.  

Under Obamacare, if a patient pays for one month of his premiums, he is automatically insured for 4 months.  The second month with an unpaid premium, the insurance company must provide all the patient's care for free.  But the deal breaker for doctors is that months 3 and 4 of treatment will be entirely at the doctor's expense.  For this reason, doctors, especially ones that provide expensive out of pocket treatments like chemo are opting out.  Texas Oncology, the largest chemo provider in Texas with 130 locations has had to opt out because it would have to pay 1,000's of dollars a month for expensive chemo/radiation treatment for cancer or AIDs patients with no reimbursement.

Texas cancelled its High Risk Pool (like other states) so there is no company to even offer old policies, but no new Insurance companies are able to confirm that they will actually proceed with new offered plans.  You might be able to sign up, but as we were told by BCBS yesterday, "We'll let you know if you have a policy when we do...."  Nice.    But, now even if you get a policy, what if no doctor/treatment center will accept you with that 2 month open ended liablilty..?

No one has any answers, but I wonder what will happen on January 1 - Will the hospitals will just empty out there Obamacare cancer patients on the streets or sent to some obsure facility miles away?  This could get very ugly.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:51 | 4161049 The Joker
The Joker's picture

Right.  My mother was just told by her long time doctor that he is not accepting Humana anymore.  So Doctors are dropping out of providing for medicare patients and insurance companies are dropping doctors from medicare patients.

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it.  Medicare, medicaid, and social security (probably EBT cards too) are done.  45% of the federal spending, that HAS to be cut..

Austerity, coming to a theatre near you.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:31 | 4161407 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

I'd like to believe you, but if you take away the things the FSA wants you won't get reelected. That's why it won't end until there is an economic collapse, the politicos don't have the balls to do what is needed.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 03:27 | 4161982 PT
PT's picture

I still have a lot of trouble believing in the power of the FSA.  Sure, they can vote people in, if they bother to vote, but since when have politicians ever done what they promised to do?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:06 | 4161098 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

That's when CAT goes parabolic.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 03:34 | 4161986 RichardP
RichardP's picture

But the deal breaker for doctors is that months 3 and 4 of treatment will be entirely at the doctor's expense.

When a patient sees a doctor for the first time, they sign a statement stating that the patient understands they alone are responsible for paying for any and all services provided to them by the doctor.

If the insurance does not pay, the patient is responsible.

There is nothing in the ACA that requires doctors to provide free care.  Logic alone will tell you why that is so.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 08:15 | 4162097 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

That may be true, but try to get blood out of the FSA. They have nothing. Well, maybe you could take their Obamaphone and big screen TV.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:28 | 4161019 syntaxterror
syntaxterror's picture

But, our Spiritual Leader said it was these same insurance companies behind this. And the GOP too. And, and, and ...

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:28 | 4161020 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

What's the fuss?

My understanding is that airport security systems are moving into the provision of medical services judging by their procedures. Why not give everyone access to their own body scan for instance?

Why not have a urologist do a prostate check when they put on plastic gloves for a crevice check?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:41 | 4161042 Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

This is all intentional, folks.. every last bit of it...

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:44 | 4161050 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Watching as Rome burns.


Bullshit Obama strikes again.


Fuck you Barry.  That whore of a mother of yours show have swallowed.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:46 | 4161054 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I'm hoping my comments get better over the next several weeks as oxygen returns to my brain. I've just completed medical treatment that I would not be able to get if I tried to get it today. Obama would have killed me but when I first heard of ObamaCare I immediately pushed my doctor for treatment. Now I'm cured but those people that waited for Obamacare are about to die. If you need treatment for a major medical issue you should get it taken care of now because the president of Washington D.C. is fixin to kill you.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:50 | 4161057 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The only solution is going to be to get the hell out of the U.S.S.A.

This ping-pong game between "corporations" and "government" will go on for ten years or more, with ever decreasing returns to the populace, with ever increasing costs.

If you are a corporation you WILL be rewarded!

If you are a citizen you WILL be screwed!

What a country! (NOT).

Time to leave!

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 17:51 | 4161068 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

How many times over can medical doctors n the US be replaced by a medical doctor in India who has the training and will work for 2/3s of the salary? Telemedicine, baby.

Puts into question the American Medical Association as the largest labor union in the US. A family who have lost IT jobs to India will rejoice at the lowered physician cost.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:11 | 4161102 granolageek
granolageek's picture

I was for a brief unpleasant time benefits dude at the tech startup I worked for. How can you tell that what United Healthcare said is a lie? United Healthcare said it.

If they blame dropping 15% of their physicians on Obamacare, figure it's 2% Obamacare and 13% they were just looking for an excuse.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:24 | 4161126 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

"The changes do not apply to United Healthcare’s commercial, Medicaid and Medicare supplement plans, according to the company."......

It ONLY applies to the "Gold Plated Insurance Policies.....".


How about a little less SPIN and a little more factual reporting?

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:16 | 4161239 Yancey Ward
Yancey Ward's picture

How bout you realize the Medicare and Medicaid networks were already narrow.  Now people get to pay gold plated prices for Medicaid level services.  Nice.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 18:57 | 4161192 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

There really are too many doctors. We survive by convincing people to undergo more testing, more procedures, and take more medicines and make more appointments than are necessary.

Fortunately we only need about thirty percent of the population to volunteer for everything we suggest to keep us going. Being a patient is a full time job for many.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:00 | 4161204 Yancey Ward
Yancey Ward's picture

Yes, doctors are being dropped, but look on the bright side- the new policies give the customers free coroner and mortician services.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:29 | 4161266 PGR88
PGR88's picture

AARP, who was all-in for Obamacare, is a politically-corrupted, shit organization - in the words of The Who - I hope they die before I get old.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 19:55 | 4161321 Quaderratic Probing
Quaderratic Probing's picture

"The rate is currently about 12% more than the average Medicare patient spends annually."

Price should be inside what is paid, good to end 12% Gov't sub city

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:42 | 4161424 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

All of this pain and suffering is ultimately due to one very activist and short-sighted Supreme Court Judge,

John Roberts. 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 12:53 | 4162482 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Well, in fairness, he was blackmailed.

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 20:49 | 4161450 studfinder
studfinder's picture

Stay out of hospitals.  My grandpa use to tell us the reason doctors wear masks is because they are bandits.   Eat as healthy as you can and get lots of exercise. 

Sat, 11/16/2013 - 21:41 | 4161551 MedicalQuack
MedicalQuack's picture

United has about 1/3 of their profits now coming from non insurance related businesses.  There's 15 SEC pages of them listed.  They are not worried about Obamacare and actually have some very juicy government contracts.  They own LHI, which they bought a couple of years ago that does all kinds of business for the VA and DOD and they are contracted out to do VA disability care and are trying like crazy to enroll more private doctors to participate, but same old problem is the pay and having the doctors learn yet one more medical records software system.  Now speaking of such and I posted this a few days ago their Optum Insights division now wants to be the consultant and integrator for 3 of the largest medical records systems sold.  I had a ton of hits from Epic, who is one of them and Optum says they can do a better job almost than the vendor themselves and I kind of get the feeling that they were not aware of this or many of the employees of Epic were not.

CMS instead of a cut gave the Medicare Advantage insurers a 3.3% raise in April instead of the 2% cut that was scheduled for next year so again at least for next year they are not hurting and besides United has their own pharmacy benefit manager company, Prescriptives so they get to make money with mail order drugs too.  Now in the law the next 10 years call for reductions but it looks like United is getting their algorithms in place early.  You can look all over the classified and see the company as well as other insurers hiring Quants as the actuaries are not sufficing any longer, besides when's the last time you saw an actuary write c++, VB, Python or any ohter code?  We're talking math models now like the financial folks use. 

When it comes to the President's decision on keeping insurance polices it's all quants on board to crank out new models too as normally insurers are miles ahead and have every risk assessment down to the penny as they try and run it almost like predicting futures and the segmentation profit models are starting to run out for insurers as the ACA is basically eliminating some of their segments used for bigger profits and smaller risk pools.

Even Mitch McConnel was a little on the hot seat for taking money from United and as I stated with all the subsidiaries the company owns you can't tag special interests just to insurance as it could be any of their other businesses.  If you look at their subsidiaries it could be they have some listed in the Dutch Sandwich region of the Netherlands as IP folks are right in there with Tax Havens, Google Microsoft and others use the Dutch Sandwich and that stuff is still all legal.  This video tells you how it works.  I don't know if it applies here but the subsidiary companies exist in the Netherlands.

So yes back to those doctors being fired, in in the United Manifesto here in the OC where they have bought up the big doctors groups and are using a non profit subsidiary to gain 51% in a lot of other companies and doctors groups you don't see on the SEC list as they are not full owners, just 51%.

Let's also not forget the biggest derivatives fine in history in 2007 for back dating stock belongs to this company and the current CEO did it too but the former CEO took the big fall.  You can look it up on the web and the one who took the fail is sitting on a few corporate boards these days.  Two years ago the AMA settled the big court case against United for using skewed algorithms to short pay doctors and hospitals for 15 years...Cuomo of New York caught that one and all the other major insurance carriers licensed the formula from them and used the numbers and have their own lawsuits over that.  Aetna just a few months ago finally announced their pay off for this and they got off cheap, well they all did.

The Supreme Court though was nice to doctors who in some areas are getting paid less than Medicare rates as confronted by the American Academy of Family Practice Physicians and that is a result of complex algorithmic formulated contracts.  If you think doctors are making it up with commercial insurance payments anymore, well think again. For years doctors had to sign contracts with the company and again they contested all the way to the Supreme court to not allow doctors to group together to litigate against them, so it was always one doctor at a time against the big corporation. This just happened in June in New York.  I guess that could be another reason maybe (grin) to reduce the number of doctors to keep the number of potential MDs grouping together down to a minimum now.

So you think doctors are getting any special considerations here?  Not much when in many cases United wouldn't get on the phone with them to at least talk and tell them why they were fired and some had just signed new contracts is August...Connecticut Attorney General now looking into this and two doctor groups have filed lawsuits.

The company has tons of lawsuits all over the country and they sued DOD to get the west coast Tri-Care military business and the military guys didn't want it and had a very active campaign going and of course to handle the Tri-Care business United created yet one subsidiary company:)  We also had Steve Larsen, a regulator that worked at HHS who wrote a big portion of Obamacare now working as a VP for the United Optum Division, that happened in June of 2012 so they might have gained a ton of information right there to lobby and used for their business models. 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 02:18 | 4161936 novictim
novictim's picture

When will you all learn?  Single Payer, Bee-tchez!

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 02:48 | 4161954 PT
PT's picture

So you can have your health insurance but you can't have a doctor.  Ooooh yeah, I get it ...

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 03:00 | 4161964 PT
PT's picture

Why do I need to share my medical budget with an insurance company anyway?  Why can't I just give 100% of my medical budget to the doctors?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 06:41 | 4162059 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

This makes sense once you understand the democratic party wants to destroy private health care.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 09:43 | 4162163 -.-
-.-'s picture

"There must be some way out of here" said the joker to the thief 
"There's too much confusion", I can't get no relief. 
Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth 
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth

"No reason to get excited", the thief he kindly spoke 
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke 
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate 
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late". 

All along the watchtower, princes kept the view 
While all the women came and went, barefoot servants, too

Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl 
Two riders were approaching, the wind began to howl.


Well, outside of the opened revolving doors I found a parcel for the community. From who? Oh, Mr. Anthony Welters.


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 10:29 | 4162223 Jameson18
Jameson18's picture

Next time those people will f-cking vote right wont' they. Do not feel bad for anybody who complains about this crap.


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 11:07 | 4162281 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture


History Rhymes: ObamaCare Website and the Ukrainian Wheat Farmers

The fact that the ObamaCare website is a complete clusterbungle that is totally inoperative is 100% INTENTIONAL.

It was designed to cause denial of service attacks on ITSELF, people.  Come on.  Wake up.  This isn’t difficult.

This reminds me exactly of the Ukraine under Stalin in the early 1930s.  The Ukraine is the breadbasket of eastern Europe.  Tremendous farming and wheat production was centered in the Ukraine.  Under Lenin, and then Stalin, all farms and food production were seized and controlled by the state.  The Soviets hated the Ukrainians and wanted them all dead.  All of them.  So here’s what they did:

At wheat planting time, the farmers all went to the Soviet office in town to get their allocation of seed wheat to plant for that year’s crop.  The Soviets stalled and stalled and then simply refused to give the Ukrainian farmers any seed.  As the planting window narrowed day by day, and then finally closed, the farmers became first ever more urgent, and then resigned themselves in despair to the fact that they would have no crop that year.

Fast forward to wheat harvest time.  The Soviet bureaucrats showed up at the farms and demanded that the farmers deliver that year’s wheat crop harvest.  The farmers, in complete disbelief at the Soviets after having begged and pleaded for seed a few months earlier only to be ignored and then explicitly denied any seed by these very same Soviet bureaucrats, told them that there was no harvest because YOU REFUSED TO GIVE US ANY SEED.

The bureaucrats then accused the farmers of hiding and hoarding the wheat harvest, and summarily executed all of the men and teenaged boys on the spot as “enemies of the Revolution and the people”.  Those were the lucky ones.  The Ukrainians left alive then slowly starved to death, many descending into the madness of starvation.  Many Ukrainian women, insane with hunger, slaughtered, cooked and ate their own children.  Some of those women survived the famine and carried the intense guilt of what they had done for the rest of their lives.  Before this totally state-engineered famine was over, upwards of three million Ukrainians were dead in less than two years.  This event is called The Holodomor.

This is what people who have hoarded an entire wheat harvest and gorged themselves on bread look like. Clearly. We know it is true because the nice people with the Hammer and Sickle shirts told us so.

This ObamaCare website is similar in tactic.  You are going to be punished for failing to comply with ObamaCare, even though the regime has specifically and maliciously seen to it that compliance is impossible – not that any person of conscience should even attempt to comply with the satanic ObamaCare anyway.

It’s intentional.
It’s intentional.
It’s intentional.



Sun, 11/17/2013 - 11:09 | 4162282 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

I had United Health Care. me and my doctor and hospital switched to Blue Cross Blue Shield. My deductible was cut in half. No problemo. It's only as hard as you want to make it seem.


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 23:31 | 4164087 RMolineaux
RMolineaux's picture

Even though they were able to undermine the ACA in congress, the health care industry was not satisfied and has now declared open warfare and a goal to completely destroy the Act.  It appears that organized greed always wins the day in the new America. 

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