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Bitcoin Rises Over $500

Tyler Durden's picture





 

One day before the Senate's digital currency hearing titled "Beyond Silk Road: Potential Risks, Threats, and Promises of Virtual Currencies", Bitcoin is largely oblivious to any potential regulatory threats, either at the legislative or the city level, where as reported previously the New York superintendent is in a rush to enforce BitLicenses on businesses that accept BitCoin, and moments ago crossed $500 for the first time ever. Instead, it appears that as we also reported previously, the Chinese Bitcoin craze has reached the parabolic threshold, going so far as making Bitcoin an acceptable payment for real estate, which means that while for the time being Bitcoin becomes the alternative inflation protection medium for hundreds of millions of Chinese, all bets on how high it can get are off.

Intraday chart:

1 Year Chart:

1 Year log chart:

 

Curious where the demand is coming from? A week ago we showed a handy utility, FiatLeak, which shows where the BitCoin transactions are taking place:

 

Finally, for those curious what a "fair value" on Bitcoin may be, here is what we presented a week ago, courtesy of Global Macro Investor's Raoul Pal:

So yes: Bitcoin is volatile. Very. That much is clear. But what is not so clear, and perhaps a key reason for this volatility, is just what the fundamental, or intrinsic value of BitCoins is when one strips away the pure euphoric momentum to the upside or downside.

To answer that question, we go to Raoul Pal, head of the Global Macro Investor, and his November 1st recommendation to "Buy Bitcoins"(when BTC was $210 so nearly a 100% return in 1 week) which among other things attempts to "value BTC using a macro framework" or, in other words, the first supply-demand driven fair value assessment of BTC.

His take, and price target, in a nutshell:

A fudge, but not a stupid one

 

Let’s use a broad guesstimate. One Bitcoin should theoretically be worth 700 ounces of gold or pretty close to $1,000,000, if we adjust existing supply of both to equal eachother.

 

One BTC is currently worth 0.14 ounces of gold.

 

That gives BTC an upside of 5000 times to equal the current price of gold, supply adjusted. Clearly, I and everyone else believes that Gold may well be much higher than here in the next 5 to 10 years, thus versus the US Dollar the upside for BTC could be multiples of that.

 

Now, before you shake your head, simply go back to the chart of Gold versus the US Dollar and just recognise that it has risen 8750% since the 1920s. And just remember that Microsoft rose 61,000% from its IPO to it’s peak.

 

Considering what we know about the world, I personally believe that Bitcoin may well explode in value as more and more people begin to use it.

 

If you stuck $5,000 into Bitcoins and each Bitcoin did go up to a gold equivalent of let’s say, only 100 ounces of gold (not the potential fair value of 700), then at current prices your Bitcoin stash would be worth $3.3m.

 

Now that’s what I call a tail-risk option. It’s either worth zero or it’s worth a truly outstanding amount of money.

 

I bet you never thought you’d see this in a macro publication. But I’m serious. This just might work.

Read on in the attached pdf below (link)

 


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Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Midas
Midas's picture

Dollar sinks below .002 BTC!

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:08 | Link to Comment observer007
observer007's picture

High was 507

Target 1000

latest News:

http://btcpost.net/index.php

 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:10 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

I'd prefer slow and steady, but we take what we can get.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Looks like the Chinese have found the hammer they are going to use to bludgeon the dollar.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

So say my bitcoins are worth $700,000  a pop, and my hard drive crashes, what do I do?

Bitcoin is deflationary BECAUSE some people will lose their passwords/hard drives containing their wallets will be wiped.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:23 | Link to Comment kushmere
kushmere's picture

Store your stuff in the cloud, and encrypt it. Its your money, obviously you want to keep it safe. I don't disagree with you though, a better platform for wallet management could making a killing!

 

http://bestbitcoinsites.wordpress.com

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:33 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

The best will hopefully be Cody Wilson and Unsystem's "dark wallet".  We need this to go live and not a moment too late.

Frankly, some of the utter bullshit coming out of the mouths of "The Bitcoin Foundation" and Mike Hearn is giving me pause (followed by ire).  These people seem more interested in hob-knobbing with authority and regulatory figures than following the cryptoanarchist roots of Bitcoin and the community.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:38 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

I wouldn't even give fiat to the Bitcoin Foundation. Fuck them.

(I hold some hope for Matonis, but he had better show us something soon.)

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Neither pro nor con Bitcoin...

90% of market returns generally happen within the last 10% of the move.

(Just like gold and silver running up to their highs.... kinda like stocks... Oh never mind....)

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

BTC been an OK run lol

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Gigantic coin laundry

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:03 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

coinlaundry.com..... that would be a great name for a coin mixing service!

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:14 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

can anyone recommend some bitcoin mining equities?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

i know you can exchange bitcoins for currency and gold.  how about tulips?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:30 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

someone tell me how to buy and sell, in laymens terms ...i understand the bitcoins..if i could set up a td account, make a deposit..buy....than sell when wanted...so howeasy is it...because the mechanics of the transactions are what have stopped me so far...i even set up a mt.gox account 3 mos ago...and never went back....so im for taking a risk...i just dont know how.....anyone?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:34 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

localbitcoins.com

 

Let me know if you need any help.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 00:36 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

thanks fone...and all others...i will digest tommorow and make a move this week...and i will take u up on ur offer to help..thanks tons...

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 01:34 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Just like eBay, stick with sellers that have 100% rep and follow the seller's instructions *exactly* or you can wind up being on the phone with your bank for a long time.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:23 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

If you are USA based, Coinbase.com is pretty easy (but requires KYC authentication)

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:50 | Link to Comment The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

1st - ensure your computer is virus free. Do a virus scan. Not Mcafee, that is NSA controlled.

 

2nd - install bitcoin software from bitcoin.org. It takes a few hours to syncrhonize.

3rd - you need to think long and hard about a wallet password. Something you will NEVER forget and something nobody will ever guess. Try a command phrase, and do not mistype it!

 

Register with an exchange. I use bitcoin.de. takes a few days to verify your account.

 

Try buying a very small amount to get the hang of things. Some exchanges require you send the bitcoin seller a bank transfer. So electronic banking is almost essential.

When your account is credited, you use your wallet software to generate a receiving address.

You need to know how to Copy and Paste that address from the wallet to your browser.

In the exchange website tell it your receive address, and set the small amount of test coins to that account.

 

When you get everything working try buying in quantities you need. For beginners break up the purchase into a number of smaller transactions, so if one fails you dont lose everything.

 

Bitcoin is quite involved. If you have figured out how to bank online, then bitcoin is about 4x more involved.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 00:38 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

thanks for the info...

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Skin666
Skin666's picture

Have a look at cryptostocks.com

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

@jbvtme  Havelock Investments offers some mining equities (AM1 and AM100).  Note that the shares are purchased and priced in BTC.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:58 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Yeah, I'd say it's a good run when a site like http://freebitco.in/?r=25727 can give out .000006 BTC and generate interest and traffic to the site..obviously just to generate ad revenue - but hey it drives and encourages the demand. As long as that keeps up, BTC will continue rolling.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:17 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I do not know where the price of Bitcoin is going (nor do I really care).  But I will predict this much... so long as governments believe they can control Bitcoin, Bitcoin will continue to make huge gains against national currencies.  Once governments move onto the accepting stage of Bitcoin, they will have to compete against Bitcoin.  That could mean issuing debt-free currency, letting banks fail or even tying their own currency to Bitcoin's creation.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:40 | Link to Comment Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

It proves how manipulated the Gold and Silver 'markets' are.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

That's right.  People holding silver should do just fine in the long run (gold I am not as sure?).  If we accept that these markets are all just fake propaganda (like the "news") we can move beyond a place of fear and start to make better decisions about how to interpret and react to the situation we find ourselves presented with.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

What markets?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Let's play connect the dots, shall we?

http://www.dvice.com/2013-11-15/quantum-computing-moves-forward-new-brea...

Look carefully at the size of the cooling system and the liquid nitrogen silos
http://cryptome.org/2013-info/11/intel-ug-lab/intel-ug-lab.htm

And if you can stomach it:
http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/734
-->http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/734.pdf

bitCon is the ultimate ponzi fraud.

Over.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 19:39 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Again...quantum can't break the hash functions.  That's Math.  Period.  It's a mathematical property of the situation.  Quantum computers are built to extend resources, not computing power....yet.  So the hypothesis is completely wrong.  For Quantum computing it's being developed for one thing right now. 

Bandwidth capacity.  Both for hard drives and network data bandwidth.  In your statement, you are telling us that a bigger hard drive is going to crack a hash function. 

In turn I'm offering you a bridge in Brooklyn for a banana peel.  I couldn't tell you which one happens first because it'll never happen.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:15 | Link to Comment Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Obviously you don't get it.

In the past year or so, it has come to be a known fact in Bitcoin technical circles that Bitcoin, in its current form, is partially quantum-safe.

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/6021/bitcoin-is-not-quantum-safe-and-how-we-c...

OVER!

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:20 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

You need to ask for a new FUD list from master because the one you've got is getting old.  Either that or go back to designing your quantum computer....

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Read it and weep pornstar.

http://eprint.iacr.org/2013/734.pdf

You're too easy. I thought this was Fight Club? Cryptologists should stay away from fight clubs. Bitch.

Over.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:40 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Haha.. I just bought some more BTC today.  Theoretically, someday inter-stellar travel may be possible too.

Keep trying loser.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:26 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Yeah that is a problem.

The same way if I put a sticker over the address of an envelope and change the direction of it.  But first stopped to de crypt only the public part of the currency, it's still stamped with the private key.  

...carrying on.  After I've sat and cracked the country code to an address for 18 years (yeah, it'll take a while to crack for a single BtC) and a password you've generated to allow that BtC to be marked as spent.  I'm not sure what you read, or your comprehension level here of the technology.  But the crypto aspect of it is tighter than a ducks ass.

The same flaws in our current system exist in that one physically as they do technologically now.  Except it's a top end limit without a lever glued to someone's hand at the number 21 million and it's very specialized and expensive.  This in a world without credit.  Because that's the bitcoin universe.  You have to have some to participate.  To do that, you have to mine it or buy it on your own or charge for it.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Your troupe of bitCon monkey's love to create a baffling technical spin job.

If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

YOU WIN! (you and pornstar)

Over.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 21:03 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

When you want to join the rest of the planet, BtC...not a single paper currency will be waiting because we'll all just agree to get up and walk away from the demented crap.  One by one, poof, then we've all moved away and you can be angry where ever you skulk.. 

So sulk about the math and technology opportunities to make something everyone can use all you want.  See you on the otherside of the wall sparky, you can chase that mirage into the desert forever if you like. I would rather you came along for the ride.  Takes all sorts.  Even angry pricks.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:21 | Link to Comment Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

So I buy bitCons today, and they will hit a shitstorm tomorrow?

Nice marketing campaign.

When TBCHTF (the bitCon hits the fan), the exit door is 2ft x 2ft and NO ONE will get through back to safety.

Good luck turning you fantasy Coins into real value.

"but, but, butt ZH told me I could buy a house with my vaporware".

Over.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 19:44 | Link to Comment BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Idiot returns to spread more stupid....

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:53 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

+1.  Satoshi's creation doesn't need these PR goons going around claiming to represent the Bitcoin community.  All of this talk about marking coins and "redlists"?  Hearn's Google ties may be a case of attempt at "controlled opposition" or their attempt to turn Bitcoin into another shitty Google App.  Bitcoin's best PR is to simply ignore the establishment.

In any case, they can have fun if they want.  They can even fork for all I care because the rest of us will just ignore them and their new Govcoin.

I'd rather have my principles than a six inch sub.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:58 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Satoshi............this guy needs to come out of the closet..........

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Why?  So they can kill him?  Or so everyone can blame him when his code causes a deflationary blackhole that destroys everyone's life?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:29 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

invisable coins..........why didnt I think of that!!

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:36 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Pretty much everything that exists, exists outside the spectrum of visible light.  What is your point?

 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:38 | Link to Comment CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

"If you don't hold it, you don't own it."

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:48 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

....and if you can hold it a guy with more guns than you can hold it too.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:00 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I don't know why you bother arguing with these people. A run from 5$ to 500$ and they still say us btc folks are wrong?? Comedy gold!

Even if it somehow cratered to 10$, so fucking what?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:07 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm hoping for a correction back to $300 level but I am not sure we will get it.  I don't know how much of this is pure speculation, ATMs coming online or China?

The ATMs are great though because most of those people are just trying it out and a lot of those coins may go missing forever.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I am hoping you lose yer wallet.....

 

and I "find" it

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:31 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

What's your email?  I can send it to you right now....  you still will not have my private keys.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

An AR-15 pointed at your temple makes you a lot more agreeable. It's an interesting concept, but depends too heavily on a complex communications network that would be difficult to maintain in a SHTF world. Good luck with your endeavor.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:26 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Your SHTF scenario is a localized one (at best).  Sorry to disappoint you, but technology and time are going to keep moving forward before, during and after the US dollar collapse.  The world does not need the United States, it's infrastructure, it's dollars or anything else.  Supposing the big pipes go down for some time the blockchain will be preserved on wan's, lan's and will meld just fine after.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:00 | Link to Comment DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

Why do you believe that progress will be linear? I view progress as more of a slowly increasing sine wave pattern with some major leaps forward and retractions from time to time.  I think bitcoins would have little value in one of those major retractions and you would be forced to wait it out until the network is re-established. However, there is no perfect currency in this situation, so we all make our decisions based on our own needs. I do however, wish you guys luck, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment evokanivo
evokanivo's picture

Please learn English. "It's" is short for "it is". Get it? You must be a proud graduate of the US educational system.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Oooh!  A typo!  I guess you never made one of those hey?  Now care to address anything of substance?

....didn't think so.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:27 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

THIS IS THE SHTF SCENARIO YOU ASSCLOWN.

Tell me how it's paradise already, or STFU.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

SHTF is relative. We are indeed in the beginning of an event, but for most of the population it's not at that level yet. That is why things like boats and ATVs still have value. That will change as we decline, and value will be stripped from assets as we decend. How deep the hole goes determines whether stocks, cash, bitcoins or even precious metals will have value. If we go low enough food, water, shelter will be the only things of value. Everything depends on how deep the hole is, and we have no way to determine that.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:01 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

I'm obviously way ahead of the position here.  Let's drop back and catch up.

 

Name five things you'd like to keep from the current situation?

Name five things you'd like to remove from the current situation?

 

There's your answer on how it's broken and how to fix it.  Oh and throw in it has to be equitable for everyone and function as a currency while solving a crippling debt crisis at the same time.  People want a magic trick, there it is.  Sitting in plain sight.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:24 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

EMPs, CMEs, WROLs, SHTFs.... all they have is more and more ludicrous scenarios to try and explain their pre-conceived notions of why Bitcoin should not be rising.  Meanwhile, back in objective reality it appears to be rising.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:28 | Link to Comment DFCtomm
DFCtomm's picture

I never said it wouldn't or shouldn't rise. Especially since it is rising, but I'm not investing in the stock market either, and it's rising.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well then that's good and you have your head in the right place.

Look, if the market crashes tomorrow or they declare a bank holiday people could be selling their SLV for $5/oz, selling their BTC for $10, they could be selling their father's Rolex for a can of SPAM.  Does that mean that dollars are the superior system?  No of course not.

You have to take a step back and look at this not in terms of price but in terms of opposing systems.  I would actually welcome such a move because it would mean we would finally get all of the deflationist dollar-holders in the same crowded room all at once.  Then the "ah ha" moment when they realize they're just holding a bag of someone else's shit and they can all go supernova.  Anyone selling their silver or Bitcoin for dollars never understood why they were buying silver or Bitcoin in the first place.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:19 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

I'm hoping for a correction back to $300 level but I am not sure we will get it.  I don't know how much of this is pure speculation, ATMs coming online or China?

Whenever the charlatans come out of the woodwork touting insane numbers you know a correction is around the corner. 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:53 | Link to Comment The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

I think those 10-25% crests and troughs we have seen are the volatity chasers. The reason it keeps going up is because many of us are long term speculators - we see all other currencies are being printed to worthlessness, and silver and gold are just rubbish right now until the Comex defaults. No other place to go in the short term.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 19:31 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

James seeing that gold went to $1900 and then dropped and you have done nothing but bash it since, I fully expect you to bash bitcoin should it fall.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:53 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

James seeing that gold went to $1900 and then dropped and you have done nothing but bash it since

I have not been 'bashing gold' - last year around this time I was posting about how I thought it was heading down and outlined why. Got into frequent arguments with people on here about it.

One of the few counterarguments to all the relentless newsletter losers talking a bunch of bullshit. Got nothing but grief for it, but whatever. 

Just to underline the point, from my typing to gawd's ears - gold is a safer investment than btc. 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

His real name is Tim. He hails from Northern Virginia and works for the NSA. Tim love the Redskins and weekend barbecues. When he is not creating bogus crypto currencies, Tim plays bass in a local Journey cover band.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Keep trying to spread all the FUD you would like, it just looks more and more funny as you are jettisoned away from whole numbers.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:21 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

I know you are the ultimate salesman for Bitcoin and this is the thing that will finally bring you the fortune that you so richly deserve, but doesn't it bother you at all that you know nothing about the man? that created your new religion/currency/world?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:33 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin doesn't need a salesman.  I just like being right. 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

What happens when the ratio of evil miners/good miners goes above 1? There still is a transaction no? Couldn't the TPTB just start wiping out the miners and invalidate transactions. What happens on conversion? Everyone is going to sell their $1M BTC/USD bitcoins and become rich right. You sure these exchanges are capitalized for conversion rushes.

And just as a side, you said "the cryptoanarchist roots of Bitcoin". Seriously?! This is how you want Bitcoin presented? Nope, no disasterous foreshadow there.

And please no non-sequitor on how the majority of existence is primarily outside the visible spectrum. I'm rooting for Bitcoin but instead of being an arrogant zealot, how about being honest about big problems in the Bitcoin transaction chain. Theory and reality are at logger heads here.

The joke is it would probably be better if Bitcoin only allowed gold/silver as purchasing/settling terms and break the central bank clearing house chain. CME would go dark overnight. Hmmm ....

Enlighten the fold here with some concrete examples of Bitcoin benefits instead of "cryptoanarchy" Antonio Gramsci bullshit.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:33 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

There are some valid concerns regarding Bitcoin but most of those the way I see it relates to scalability.  Light clients, truncated chains, replicated super-nodes are all some of the possible answers.  The internet itself was and is anarchal in it's growth and scalability.  It didn't require your input or personally held beliefs for it to work.  Bitcoin, Bittorrent, TOR, etc are no different in that regards as they are simply an overlay on the existing time-tested structures.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:19 | Link to Comment SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

tim attends the local house o worship

sings in the choir

coaches little league

flag in the yard

bumper sticker says: 'coexist, bitchez'

reads zh "for the articles"

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:55 | Link to Comment Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

"“The state is basically allowed because we have all chosen to use these certain institutions to channel our activity and commerce,” he told me. “But when we are enabled, through alternative means and technologies, to channel our commerce as we will, channel our production as we will, the state simply disappears.” — Cody Wilson, http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/currency/2013/09/dark-wallet-bitco...

Yes, it does. Yes, it will. Bring. It. On.


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:48 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

@dick cheneys ghost: "Satoshi............this guy needs to come out of the closet........."

TYLERS, I'm 100% certain that I'm far from being the only ZH blogger who'd like to know if you guys actually own any BTC and when you first got some.  It's a fair question.

The extent to which other ZH bloggers (with pro/con BTC positions) share this sentiment, please Up/Down arrow accordingly.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:06 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

If they'd just publish an address, I'd be happy to give the Tylers some of mine, regardless of if they hold some now or not.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Skin666
Skin666's picture

I'll second that seek!

 

TYLER(S) CAN YOU PLEASE SET UP A BITCOIN DONATION ADDRESS. IT COULD MAKE YOU BILLIONAIRIES!

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And Lloyd and his boys will be happy to manage it for them, I mean [cough] "Do God's work".

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 21:40 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Need to show how to make a wallet.

I'm posting a How to for everyone tommorrow.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 22:58 | Link to Comment LuisCypher
LuisCypher's picture

A thin wallet client  in a browser, the one piece of software that has been compromised more than Adobe products?

 

Yeah .... I'll stick with my desktop, android and paper wallets.

Don't get me wrong I am no fan of the closed, corporate controlled  Bitcoin foundation, but efforts would be better spent submitting code to the main Bitcoin project or making a full feature wallet with an easy mode.

Other projects worth looking at would be a new merge mined info-chain for small data storage and ownership titles. It could incorporate many coloured coin features. Be a ledger of  car/house/copyright/contract  titles etc. Make  the infochain coins freely creatable by anyone , but inclusion in the chain can only be done by a BTC fee paid to the merge mining bitcoin miners.

That way ownership could be transfered by sending recieving the infocoin, let owners destroy an owned info coin when contracts expire or assets they represent are destroyed. ( this would enable effective pruning)

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 01:42 | Link to Comment mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

those are some gooooood ideas.

Doing it through a merged mining setup is interesting.

maybe the infocoin contains a hash to a URI that outlines the terms/media/etc.

Maybe the fee is a function of the contract duration: longer = more expensive.

would love to see this software.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

safe...., in the cloud

 

the killing will come

 

when the web goes away

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:12 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

It will go away, and be replaced with something better to handle BtC.  Why do you think there is a huge interest in Quantum computing.  Storage and bandwidth exponentially increasing by tens of thousands of times current capacity.

That's what you get as a by product of quantum computing.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

assuming uninterrupted infrastructure

 

big assumption

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:22 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

I've been through dozens of migrations large and small.  When something breaks, you don't drop like a boy with a skinned knee waitin for Mum to make it better.  You get your ass up, fix it and move on with your life.

If it goes down for a 'single' country.

That's their fucking problem, if they want to go back to the stone age.  Fuck them.  The rest of the world though will do just fine without their input and contributions.  Build a wall around the place and let them rot as savages .

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:40 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I hope they propose Bitcoin legislation tomorrow!  It will cut off the US from the most innovative trading platform in human history and crash the dollar all the sooner.  They can spend the next couple centuries banging stones together and meditating on the meaning of "real".

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:46 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

They won't because there needs to be a cleaner explaination of what it corrects, and I'm working on it.  Believe it or not this stuff helps because it helps pool that all important FAQ of a technology change.  Money is just a technology and prone to version changes and replacement.

It's not the barn or the cow, it's just a tool the farmer can use.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:50 | Link to Comment Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Yes, this actually makes tomorrow's hearing and possible subsequent measures against BTC largely irrelevant. If they curb the bitcoin usage in businesses in the US, China will become the main exporter of bitcoin-related goods and services, cutting off the US from the game. In fact, both scenarios are positive for bitcoin.

China is doing an excellent job in pursuing the dominance, while accumulating gold, accepting and promoting bitcoin, etc. And, provided China holds the FED's balls tightly in her hands, I don't expect any negative output from the Congress/Senate puppets to come up with tomorrow. Perhaps, at most, some uncertain toothless threats for laugh.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:00 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

There's hundreds of millions of bright, motivated netizens around the globe.  Then there's a handful of corrupt satanists in Hollywood, Washington and the media establishment.

Who do you think is going to come out on top?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

Even corrupt satanists are not all-mighty. They perhaps seem to being such but eventually they'll find themselves caught in their own lies. God save them when the lies become apparent to many. That's something satan cannot withstand.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:39 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

+1.  They really did themselves in with the over-the-top actors with Sandy Hoax, Batman shooting, Boston bombing, LAX, etc, etc (many actors starring in multiple events).  Too many people are watching this now and seeing the news in a totally different light than even a few months ago.  I actually think the overwhelmingly negative commentaries on YT may be why Google changed the commenting methods on YT.  We also have a plethora of documented evidence of CNN, FOX and others staging news and faking stories.

We are going to get to the bottom of this and there are going to be trials for these people.  I have no doubt that this forum is monitored by these satanic scumbags.  So those reading this, mark my words.... there will be trials.  Expect us.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

As regards the public channels, the recent great moment was the JPM Q&A fiasco on twitter. I was indeed surprised while reading the monolitic block of insightful and dauntless comments out there. Delightful reading.

It's promising, we still have a chance.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:46 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

That would require any of them having the spirit, will and drive to participate in such a cause. 

No these people are just very lost and crazy now.  They need to take the bench for a long time and point out where the bodies are buried to close the books on the mess so Justice can be served properly in courts and process of law.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:02 | Link to Comment Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

that's the spirit

 

interesting who regards whom as the savage

 

note: the riot squads are restless

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:26 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Yeah, and their families are hungry because of the current nonsense.  Hard having a thug life if the cheedar you are paid isn't worth anything.  Right now they are being paid in other people's IOU's.  OPP man.  How other people's problem's become money is insane enough.  It just that time to move on.

I think most guys have dated someone at least once that is crazy, fun and highly fuckable.  But that's all they are.  Can't bring them home to Mum and Dad or you'll be shoveling them off the floor hammered, they go bonkers on you and start wrecking things. 

You don't keep that one though, that's the fish you throw back to make time for the girl you want to stay with.  Fiat money...it's fun, crazy and it's time to dump her psycho ass to the curb.  All to make room for the curvy, sensible and good looking past her prime.  Something to tailor a future off of and escape the nonsense of Debt/GDP at plus 100%.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:43 | Link to Comment Gazooks
Gazooks's picture

dig the analogy

 

bitchcoin as hammered house wrecker:

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2013...

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

How many programmers do you know who can code for superposition? Expertise with QM and good software engineering practice are a rare combination.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:16 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Luckily for us, we wont have to hear an "I told you so" from you, when it happens.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:45 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

All well to do Chinese and Chinese black money is being thransferred out of China. Buy BTC in China and cash out in  HK or Taiwan in HK dollars next day.

Repeat  that for all countries with Capital controls and you have a tsunami. Once that tsunami recedes, it's Sayonara suckers time

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:58 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Interesting view, Oracle.  I've had that suspicion, too. It's just so damn hard to quantify it.  On the other hand, still have tons of dry powder in case a major correction occurs.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:40 | Link to Comment BeanusCountus
BeanusCountus's picture

Deleted. Responded to wrong post.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:25 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

Your money is lost forever, should have made backups.

But bitcoin isn't deflationary because of lost bitcoins.

Bitcoin is deflationary because it's designed to be deflationary. It has a fixed limit on coins and built-in supply reductions over time. Even the slightest amount of research reveals this. It's a key feature of the currency, e.g. it's a selling point, not a bug.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

If a fixed number of bitcoins are available and those bitcoins can be infinitely divided, is there a real limit to this alternative currency?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:55 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

There's no real limit to its distribution, but yes, there is a real limit to their number. This means that they can't be diluted through printing, but can still be used to transact business. It's not unlink gold.

I can't remember the economist's name, but a while back someone asked how much gold or other commodities would be necessary to the world economy to be on a physical standard, and his (correct, IMO) reply was that if the supply was truly fixed, you could use a single ounce if desired. All that matters is the units of account are sufficiently divisible and the fact that the supply can't be inflated. Gold, bitcoin, and a number of other things satisfy this.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:11 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Is it possible for someone to start another Bitcoin? Or is the universe limited to the current Bitcoin?

Regardless, beanie babies, when retired became very valuable. That was until...

I will say that if a segment of the population is willing to trade hard assets for it in a sustainable way, then perhaps it sticks around but I still find it hard to believe .gov won't do everything in its power to stop it. Everything includes everything. As I've said previously, it wouldn't surprise me if .gov was behind the run up in price and will crash it at some point.

I know I know, Bitcoiners will be there to buy them dirt cheap.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:36 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

Someone dropped this link a bit ago: ounce.me

There are others like bitcoin. Litecoin at least, I'm sure someone that follows them knows more about it than i do.

And as for all bitcoin threads from now until eternity, god fucking dammit.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:19 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

It's possible for bitcoin to "fork" if there's a substantial disagreement to changes in the protocol, and there are many competing cryptocurrencies. Litecoin gets mentioned most often, but there's also namecoin, zerocoin, it goes on and on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies

Bitcoin is by far the most widely adopted, however.

As far as a bitcoin fork, it's not happened yet, but recently was threatened in just the past few days over the idea of a blacklist, which would make specitfic coins unspendable and destroy the fungibility of the currency. Virtually every developer said they'd refuse to support a blacklist; the idea apparently was suggested during the government hearings by someone with an interest in it happening.

As far as a runup and crash -- it's certainly possible for someone to do that, but they'd have to spend money to do so. Unlike the paper gold markets, there's no real way to do naked shorts of bitcoin (shorting, yes, naked shorting, no.) So they have to put up their own money, and analysis of the blockchain would likely expose them.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:05 | Link to Comment sleigher
sleigher's picture

.gov trying to stop it?  Mellon and friends anyways...

 

https://coinvalidation.com/

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:44 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Sucks to be them.  I only have one thing to say about the matter.  Get the fuck out of the road, you are going to get hurt.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:03 | Link to Comment BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Can't be infinitely divided. Three seconds of research.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

"it's designed to be deflationary."

 

  Seems to me what can be "designed" can be
redesigned."

  And when google finally wraps this into it's cyber empire? In a partnership with it's protectors, of course, like

  Caesars and Popes.

  Hum, that said, maybe the Capitol should be moved to Mountain View.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

"It's designed to be deflationary"

 

I say good for that. The entire economy is SUPPOSED to be deflationary due to technology and other PRODUCTIVITY inputs. 

But alas.....we don't get that in a "modern" fiat-based economy now, do we?

What we get are lies, obfuscation, denial-of-inflation on a constant basis from the government and thoroughly complicit media.....to the point that even Goebbels wouldn't have the shame to spew.

So we get to work harder for less, watch our savings gets continually debased, while the insiders get the benefit of early and unimpeded fiat use.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:13 | Link to Comment freet0pian
freet0pian's picture

"The current protocol has a fixed limit on coins and built-in supply reductions over time."

Fixed that for ya. The path Hearn an co are currently travelling doesn't count out the possibility for an "inflation fix" for the procotol in the future.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:22 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

Which forces a fork, and people choose which path they follow. Bitcoin with inflation isn't bitcoin anymore, just like the USD isn't gold backed any more.

The difference is every single client (wallet) can choose which path they follow, an option not presented when prior currencies went from deflationary (gold backed) to inflationary (fiat.)

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:28 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  There is no "dollar value" for a Bitcoin as they are systemically non-relational.  We are seeing the friction between the two systems interpreted as price, but that won't last forever.

Also, it's nice to see this rally before the hearings.  Basically, the market is saying we don't give a flying fuck what anyone in the USA thinks about Bitcoin as the US legal system is powerless against Bitcoin.  Nobody in China or Taiwan knows who Janet Napolitano is and they don't need to either because it doesn't matter in the least bit.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:54 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

as the US legal system is powerless against Bitcoin

What are you talking about? The US dollar is "legal tender for all debts public and private", i.e. it's been codified into law that people in the U.S. have to accept dollars. There is no such protection for bitcoin and in fact it would be trivial for Congress to pass a law that banned bitcoin transactions. They already have the rationale - that bitcoin is used by drug traffickers. What are bitcoin-guys going to do then when the NSA can track all internet communications coming from whatever platform you store your bitcoins on?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:09 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

You people seriously are fucking brainwashed.  I am not an American.  Do yourself a favour and buy a plane ticket somewhere.  Go pass all the fucking laws you want and nobody will care.  Let me say that again... nobody cares about you, nobody cares about your "legal tender", nobody cares about your "laws", nobody cares about your "congress", nobody cares about your "dollar".  They are all totally worthless words that only exist inside the minds of stupid sheep.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:13 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Do I have a drone for you!

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:27 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

You're going to need an exponentially growing number of drones to deal with Bitcoin users.  It would be easier to nuke the Earth.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:48 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

That 'was' their plan.  I have something a little different in mind.  I'm a big fan of Picard and STTNG.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:55 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

That's what Fukushima is for.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:55 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

And things are going better than expected luckily.  Some garage techs all over the world are dogpiling the idea and have figured out how to make radiation shielding devices based on frequencies (radiation is a particle and a spectrum frequency, use the other side of 0 to lower the deadliness of it) and they are being tested right now.  A unit should cost less then ten bucks to produce once they have a final and safe design.

and guess what? 

People came up with that solution, just needed some nudging and pointing out some physics papers to get it in a model in their heads.  All the stuff is here to make a lot of impressive things happen built by people, for people, run by people.  Won't change people being dickheads, but life is about variety and interesting things for better or worse.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:29 | Link to Comment Professorlocknload
Professorlocknload's picture

"You're going to need an exponentially growing number of drones"

The MIC loves you for that! Do Boeing and General Dynamics take Bitcoin?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:18 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

I'm going to start harvesting virtual tulip bulbs, you wanna be our spokesperson?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:10 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

You are the brainwashed person, fonestar. You have bought into the whole "Guy Fawkes, stick it to the bankers and the U.S. of A" crap. Here's the bottom line on bitcoin - it's a greater fool scam. It's the Dutch tulip mania brought into the digital age. By all means, convert most or all of your currency into bitcoin. Trade it amongst the several hundred bitcoin acolytes. Pretend that it represents real wealth, a claim on real production in this world. It's like believing that the Earth is 6000 years old. Believing fervently in something doesn't make it so.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment frenzic
frenzic's picture

When I upvoted this a downvote was also recorded.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:18 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Keep buying your bullion with credit cards, cash and the 1's and 0's stored in your criminal bank.  The bankers LOVE fools like you who are your own worst enemy funding their fiat games.  You bankroll them every time you go out to "fight the power" with your helmet on backwards and the barrel bent back towards your head.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:24 | Link to Comment ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

No shit Charlie, what did you use to buy your BTC "wealth", peanuts or maybe your own pubic lice? And I'm eagerly interested in finding out which currency does one cash out named wealth (besides buying up a shitöload of footlong subs). Please, enlighten me!

 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:11 | Link to Comment BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Ill field this one...
Buying Au/Ag at a 92% fiat discount
Buying gift cards for gas, groceries, and electronic shit
Charity donations where 100% is trackable

Footlong sub at Subway. Yes, I paid less than .01$ for it, and you can go suck a dick.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment Lukacko
Lukacko's picture

It's funny because other governments would do something like ban bitcoin even before the US gov.  So no doubt if the US is planning on it, other countries would/are as well.  They care even less about your rights in almost any other country in the world. Not to mention if the US does it they would follow suit. The chinese are the biggest brainwashed sheep (aside from n korea) do you think for a second they wouldnt ban bitcoin if it posed a threat? They dont have a free press, free speech, they cant even have more than 1 child for fucks sakes.  But they are going to have free bitcoin? rofl. And the places where you could get away with 'having your rights', you run the risk of your fucking children getting kidnnapped.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 19:36 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

fonestar what about when they launch the bitcoin etf and that ends up being much more popular than bitcoin because of the ease with which it can be bought....and eventually manipulated? I mean what happens when they securitize bitcoin with their own GLD type etf. can bitcoin escape golds fate?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 21:05 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Both the existing ETF (BIT) and the Winklevoss ETF seeking regulatory approval are 100% backed by BTC.

Mon, 11/18/2013 - 01:12 | Link to Comment Big Brother
Big Brother's picture

There is no "dollar value" for a Bitcoin as they are systemically non-relational.  We are seeing the friction between the two systems interpreted as price, but that won't last forever.

I posit of all your posts tonight (good posts might I add), that this one best summarizes succintly a defense for owning bitcoin:  that one no longer values "BTC" in "Dollars", but rather that it can be exchanged for goods and services because of its own merit or agreed acceptance (albeit in a similar methodology to dollars).

I have every intent to buy BTC on the next dip.

I no intention of ever converting it back to dollars.  So therefore I will never value it in dollars beyond what I will have to pay to buy more BTC.  Rather, I would only exchange it for goods and services.  I just need to find some places locally that will accept BTC...  It's just a matter of time.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:33 | Link to Comment El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Well then, it'll be known as ButtCoin, as in you'll be taking it in the ass like we're doing with the deflationary dollar. Either way, you can't get around physical gold or silver as a comfort currency.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Gold and silver are money, not currency.  Bitcoin is currency not money.  You cannot smuggle or transfer large amounts of gold around the world and through borders the way you can with Bitcoin.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

you think that :)

Wen they want to know who accesses all the bitcoin sites and does any transaction. They'll know because they control the internet.

If they want to shut down bitcoin, they can do so in 5 seconds.

And when you can't access it anymore from any place in the world what's the point?

And gold and silver? You don't need to get it outside when everybody does.

You can dig a hole. burry it untill it's safe and sell it. And no matter what, you'll be sure silver and gold will be around for thousands of more years to come.

Bitcoin? Well... I've seen millions of types of software pass the grid. And are forgotten.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:03 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

"If they want to shut down bitcoin, they can do so in 5 seconds."

Bullshit. 

"Bitcoin? Well... I've seen millions of types of software pass the grid. And are forgotten."

More bullshit.  I watched Napster and Limewire get shutdown.  Then I watched several well maintained Bittorrent clients take their place and remain with us ever since.


Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:18 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

So are you saying that when Bitcoin gets shut down, we'll be introduced to Bitcoin 2.0? What happens to your Bitcoins then?

And another thing, if you buy and sell bitcoins for profit, how do you declare that gain for tax purposes? I don't know ex-US tax law but at least in the US, when you don't declare that income because you think they won't be able to find you, now you've committed tax evasion.

Too many challenges that will be thrown at it so I give it small odds of succeeding long term. Could I be wrong? Sure.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:26 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Jesus!!  Nobody gives two shits about your taxes and tax laws!!!  It's totally meaningless.  Why would Bitcoin client's willingly shutdown when they are reaping 1000% profits in dollar terms?

This forum makes me sad.  Seeing just how brainwashed people have become. 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:40 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

There's the door, pal.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

You go ahead. And don't let it hit you in the butt on your way out.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:13 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Bitcoin is a religion, based on a belief system that has no basis in the real world. It's a belief system that a series of 0's and 1's represents real, tangible wealth. Nothing makes religious zealots like fonestar more incensed than if someone points out the obvious contradictions in their religion.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

the mathematics behind bitcoin exist independently of 1s and 0s. the 1s and 0s just allow us humans to calculate at such a speed as to make this branch of math useful.

the bitcoin transaction list couldnt be maintened and cryptographycally protected using an abacus and a brain alone. but the math is there regardless. computers enable its use. wings on a plane enabled human flight. combustion of rocketfuel and a million other small miracles enabled humans to visit space.

computers enable complex mathematical expressions and innovations.

my big bitcoin worry is that the network wont be maintained by altruistic miners. a ban on the sale of al queda supporting computer equipment meanwhile the dhs gets its data centers running and bam, the blockchain is hi jacked. as a huge pmbug and btc supporter that is the most realistic threat i see plausibly occuring.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment noless
noless's picture

the attempt was to create a self inclusive expression which would mimic static limits present in the real world, as with scarcity.

this artificial scarcity is the goal, but i put no faith in the continuation of bitcoin itself, although the premise is sound.

it looks no different to me than fiat money, with the exception that there is a mutual distribution of data beyond/within all holders in relation to creation and transferability.

as far as currencies go it's an improvement to centrally distributed networks, but i doubt it's the end all be all of the form.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 21:04 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

wtf are centrally distributed networks?!?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 17:37 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

So if Bitcoin is a religion what is the "dollar"?  If they are both religions, which one is converting new members faster?

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:31 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Fuck taxes and tax law.  Governments need to start operating as governments, not cash cows to funnel your work into someone else pocket that obviously doesn't have your interests in mind...or anyone else's.

Don't be the useful idiot to these people.  You spread their message that it's okay to wreck everything.  Silver and Gold maybe King currencies, but right now those two are on the ropes because of the SAME people.  Only way to rip their nuts off, is to remove the collar and leash.  Don't have to get angry about it.

Just walk away from them and ignore them for the crazy people they are.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 15:54 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Who can prove that BTC is not a government program designed to take the pressure off the price of gold which was the only game in town vis a vis printing fiat?

 

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 20:31 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Because it's open source and all the last names aren't exclusively core european ones working on it.  Smart math junkies from all over the world. Thousands of pairs of eyes to scan, correct and complain.

Good rule of thumb in international open source projects; people might have challenges communcating verbally what they need and want.  But math is standard everywhere.  It's easier getting tooth paste back into a tube than pass a polished turd by a review group.  They'll just toss it and never call you again.

One Russian guy I knew he learned English by programming in Pascal.  We couldn't ever talk about the greater details of a movie, we could laugh at the bits that were slap stick funny obviously.  But if Mr 'N' had a math problem, I could look at it and know exactly what he was talking about.  Same for other engineers.  Lebanese, Iranian, American, Irish, French...language counterparts were tricky...but the math is our language day to day when building something.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 16:06 | Link to Comment One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

It was expected the day would come when a rush to physical gold would destroy the paper-rigging scam and expose the system, but BTC, a digital currency with a mysterious background and ties to the NSA, may prevent that from happening.

Sun, 11/17/2013 - 14:20 | Link to Comment johny2
johny2's picture

bitcoin don't care. 

 

currency equivalent of honey budger 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

 

 

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