This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Bitcoin Versus The Senate - Round 2 - Live Webcast
Following yesterday's good-cop-bad-cop Bitcoin discussion, it is the turn of the Senate's Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs committee to comprehend the benefits of the unregulated cryoto-currwncy and why the fiat-defiers should be crushed (for their own good of course). Law Professors, FinCEN Directors, and Bank commissioners in on corner, and the CEO of BitPay in the other... ding ding, Round 2."The Present and Future Impact Of Virtual Currencies - security and international trade and finance" We can only imagine the vol about to hit BTC prices following yesterday's fun and games...
As a reminder: What Is Bitcoin?
Today's Witness list (and their lengthy testimony links)...
Panel 1
- Ms. Jennifer Shasky Calvery [view testimony]
Director
Financial Crimes Enforcement Network - Mr. David Cotney [view testimony]
Commissioner of Banks
Massachusetts Division of Banks
Panel 2
- Mr. Anthony Gallippi [view testimony]
Co-founder and CEO
BitPay, Incorporated - Ms. Mercedes Kelley Tunstall [view testimony]
Partner and Practice Leader, Privacy and Data Security Group
Ballard Spahr LLP - Ms. Sarah Jane Hughes [view testimony]
University Scholar and Fellow in Commercial Law
Maurer School of Law, University of Indiana - Mr. Paul Smocer [view testimony]
BITS President
Financial Services Roundtable
Live Stream via Senate:
»
- 11295 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
....nobody cares what you say!
The FinCEN girl was an attractive verson of Janet Napolitano. What's with the butch haircuts these days? Not even gold could make some of these girls glitter.
Mt.Gox looking pretty calm @$702 BTC. Seems the markets have already established these people are redundant and of no cause for concern.
the price could be anywhere from $375 to $1050
meanwhile Senate is talking
TAX, TAX, TAX
that is all they care about which is why BTC will be a pipe dream unless .gov decreases in size because they decide one day, that 80% of what they do is redundant and bullshit
wake me when hell freezes over
Bitcoin + Physical Gold = Bitbond + Bitmortgage
http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/bitcoin-physical-gold-bitbond.html
Be careful about buying gold with BTC from coinabul.com:
http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-warning-do-not-buy-gold-or-silver-from-bitcoin-site-coinabul.aspx?article=4683386710G10020&redirect=false&contributor=Jason+Hamlin
Same holds true for you Fonestar.
If ZH tracked you red vs green pill count, you'd be banished from the Fight Club.
Another statist cheering for the enemy, thinking his suits in congress still carry some legitimacy... yawn.
You sure like to peg people to fit your false narrative.
Reminds me of some douche named Alinsky.
Carry on BTC troll.
Okay, what should I call those that claim to be for open markets that go on to bash the only viable currency which actually competes against that which they claim to oppose? Hypocrites? Traitors? Buffoons?
At any rate the amount of dumb people opposed to Bitcoin make me very, very bullish for it's future.
No, your zealotry is turning people off to the point where people who ARE rooting for BTC are getting disgusted by your amateur league cheerleading. You keep spouting crypto-anarchy drivel when BTC is still nascent. A great trade at this point, but people should be careful as they should of ANY investment in this environment. The current tulip rush mentality is having little old ladies asking about buying bitcoins(my mother included because her 28 year old little firecracker new money manager told her to buy bitcoins) which is pissing me off. And to top it all off, it sounds like some Zuckerberg style punk who thinks he has it all down because he knows how to keep his own "wallet" is going to tell everyone how it is. Again, do a little history check, this BitCoin thingy has been proposed in the past by the big bad people your revolting against. Hell, Bill Gates little foray into digital loans is an easy Google for ya.
And WTF says BTC is a currency. The fag Satoshi who's too much of a pussy to come forward -- everything is open source right so his life really isn't in any danger so that dog doesn't hunt anymore. Right now BTC is equivalent to S&H green stamps or coupons -- even better, fucking Pokemon trading cards. And honestly it would be better for it to stay that way so the gubmints of the world stayed the fuck out of it. But more "anarchists" crying it's going to overthrow the world is just going to make the numb nuts on all government panels take even more closer looks which isn't good.
Be careful what you wish for.
Bitcoin is dead. Long live Bitcoin.
Yeah, Satoshi is "a fag", seriously go back to the keg at your frat house moron. And tell me how Bitcoin could be considered a nascent technology when epoch time is 1/1/1970? Satoshi's creation has been around almost one-tenth of the amount of time since then and is a proven, working concept. I am not here to change anyone's mind. I don't need to. I'm getting rich and having the time of my life laughing at people like you!
LOL. Hey cubby, I probably have underwear older than you so it's been awhile since any keggers in my life. And maybe you should look up System Time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_time for computers. 1/1/1970 is base system time epoch for UNIX systems as well as others. So not sure what your little diatribe of epoch time fits in to your BTC sermon. It has nothing to do with Bitcoin except for Date/Time calculations.
Spoken like a true crypto-anarchist!!! "Let's all rage against the machine but make sure my trade is settled first."
Once again, I'm making money on BTC too you little douche. It's guys like you that are going to ruin it for everyone by flaring it out before it settles into something good with legs instead of a gold rush style one hit wonder.
And yes, Satoshi is fag. Come foreward and show everyone his brilliance. Get everyone off the fence and on to the Bitcoin wagon because we will all see his glory. His vision is to overthrow the world but only if he can keep his Facebook account name. It's a little late to be an armchair general at this point.
In fact, I'm coining a new phrase in honor of him just for you -- crytpo-fag.
What the fuck did you think I was referring to by epoch time? It is UNIX time dipshit! So yeah, Bitcoin is quite old and isn't new at all. Need some more time to reference Wikipedia? People like you had better start playing catch-up pretty damn fast I'd say or you are just going to be left in the dirt.
you had me at crypto-fag
People like yourself are a shining example of why your country is being left behind in a brave new bitworld as one of the speakers rightfully noted. You could reduce the pinnacle of human achievement, expression, science, art, whatever down to some crass statement like "Satoshi is a fag". You are pro-stupidity and pro-ignorance. A great example of what paints Americans travelling abroad and makes them persona non grata. An embarassment and fully deserving of what is coming your way.
+1
Don't sweat it, fonestar.
ZH is pushing these stories for the views, because the pro-USA commenters can't quite stop foaming at the mouth every time it is put up on the front page. As soon as they capitulate or give up, ZH will stop talking about it.
Except to gloat when Bitcoin has the usual decline priced in funny green paper. Just the usual modus operandi.
I wouldn't bother continuing honestly - not that you aren't doing rather well, just because they should just be left with the bought-and-paid for system they love so much. Stocks, Bonds, all of it.
After all, it becomes tiresome shooting fish in a barrel, and the barrel eventually leaks and kills all the fish anyway :)
Bitcoin will outlast the fraud known as fiat, and it will most certainly produce more yield than the best Fund/ETF.
Screw 'em, they don't deserve the next great thing.
Haha thanks but I've been into coins as well as technology since I was a kid. This is the merger of the two, so I'm not going anywhere. I could shut up but I'm not going to. Most of them don't understand this technology, so they would rather err on the side of those attacking it because people in groups act like a pack of wild dogs. They could spend the time reading the papers, doing the investigating, studying the theory.... but it's so much easier to act like a rabid dog I guess.
you really don't sound much different, always agitated and defensive. which is why it's tough for me read your comments and lend them much credibility. but don't take it personally.
Just be happy your mommy has money to manage, for fucks sake.
These are some of the most ignorant comments I have read on here about bitcoin. The nature of your response clearly illustrates your lack of education on the topic.
Your mom will be rich and you will be living in her basement not long from now.
Take a closer look at what bitcoin is and where it came from and you will be very surprised.
Bitcoin accurately reflects both inflation and the faith people have in government managed currencies around the globe. In four years it has gone from under $1 to over $900. It is important to note that none of the fundamentals that have propelled Bitcoin thus far have changed at all. Bitcoin will continue to make huge gains against nationalist currencies until the political and banking classes take note that the gig is up. If they wish to retain any control and any power they had better react quickly or their scoffs and smirks will soon turn to terror.
i have read this same platitude literally hundreds of times just on these forums.
what is there besides what's here: http://bitcoin.org/en/how-it-works that we you think we need to know?
"No, your zealotry is turning people off to the point where people who ARE rooting for BTC are getting disgusted by your amateur league cheerleading."
I never thought I'd be rooting for the FED-juice to triumph over BTC. But then I met 'fonestar'.
It must be part of the plan but, GO FED! Jan-It, Jan-It, Jan-It, Jan-It!!!
Over.
I don't know if fonestar is an engineered character or not, but I'm taking lessons bro! Lol.
What do you think I am rooting for? Why do you think I push the issues? I want them to try and regulate it so we get to see just what kind of bite this paper tiger has. That fake libertarians would support the Fed? Thanks for the HUMINT but I think I already had that one in spades....
When the biggest asshole on The Hedge is calling you an asshole, listen.
Over.
I guess he's not the biggest asshole then is he?
Over.
gentlemen, you can't fight in here. this is a war room.
These hearings. I am listening to a bunch of flies worried about where the next poop will come from.
Yes. Then again, are the flies ever concerned about anything but their next cow pie?
Three-dimensional flies trying to land on four-dimensional poop.
If you arent transacting in dollars...her tax concern is moot. Fucking Leach!!
They already tax barter.
One simply can't have a currency based on nothing......ooops!
On second thought, we have determined that bitcoin is a tool of Al-Queda...
Careful. ...nsa invented syphis..Lsd...and bicoin
Save bitcoin to show to your grandkids...Save gold to protect them.
Nice.
Over.
i figured out how to bring down the price of BTC.
i bought some!
I sold some to my friendly LocalBitcoins dealer. He asked if I wanted to sell some more, because he just had a big buyer. Feel sorry for that guy, he bought at peak.
But only a little sorry, I still expect BTC to get past $1000. Just don't know if it will be next week or next year.
...or tomorrow ! (don't laugh !)
...are they said that even criminals dump the dollar?
Who's the butch dyke?
These .gov women are nothing to look at, are they?
We covered this yesterday. Obama has been aggressively promoting homosexuals in all departments of government. The lesbians are just easier to spot right away.
You know. I have a thesis that the perversion from Hollyweird is pervasive in 'merican culture as a result of the TeeVee.
Entertainment is the commodity with the highest value for the slaves who are in full capture mode.
Why not bring the Freak Show to center stage??
http://www.amctv.com/freakshow/videos/what-is-freakshow-inside-freakshow
Over.
Do we see $1000 today ???
Yep, maybe even $600 too!!
Weeeeeeeeee - this ride is fun.
Ive been watching it a bit today....520 to 700-800 or so....massive swings in price.
Illiquid and highly unstable come to mind.
Triangle forming?
The Senate is afraid that there will be nefarious dealings via so-called cryptocurrency? How about doing something with the current fiat currencies?
Libor, IRS, Fed, MBS, Drug Cartels, Arms Dealing, Drugs, Bribery, Market Manipulation...what current bank, corporations, monetary funds, hedge funds, private equity, goverments don't use paper and digital currency to commit crime?
How many whistleblowers are needed? How many ponzi scams revealed? How many "conspiracy theories" turning into historical fact?
'stop and frisk'???...............they ought to 'stop and frisk' wall st bankers
I was thinking whisk, like they whisked brains out thru' the nose prior to mumification.
Lets just not wait on them dying, it would spoil the fun.
And now you have it "other value that substitutes for currency" = Bitcoin.
well... if the government is against it...
and they don't call it safe...
that means...
I might have to change my mind about bitcoins after all....
maybe I'll buy 2 just as a test and a support.
I'd use it for various things. The idea is useful. Just very jumpy, probably on purpose, which would make me nervous if I was a speculator.
If these guys hate it... I WANT SOME!
http://www.coinbase.com
After holding on to BitCoins for a while, a minor 30% drop in gold price doesn't even faze me.
Wait for the bubble to burst first.
....and if it doesn't burst, hide in an EMP-shielded hole in the ground.
Post a bitcoin address and I'll make a donation to get you started.
The banks fucked up their own currency. Regardless of what I think of BitCoin, it is a testament to distrust in the centrally managed system where just about anything is better than fiat. People are fed up, so they turn to existing alternatives and invent new ones.
Every critique of BTC in this presentation can be equally applied to fiat. Dollars are being used to fund terrorism on government level, dollars are used in money laundering, dollars hire assassins, buy drugs, dollars pay for all sorts of crime, dollars get stolen, embezzled. Dollar does in practice everything that these people discuss "in theory" regarding BTC. In fact, the track record of fiat is where they get all of their examples from. On top of it, dollar can and does get counterfeited at will - something that BTC cannot do.
Regardless of what I think of BTC, I love and hate watching these morons talk about something they know almost nothing about. These same people make decisions that affect everyone's daily lives of which they know just as much.
Glad government revenue got mentioned. That's 2nd biggest issue on everybody's mind. What's gonna happen to taxes under a virtual currency arrangement. Well, we all know the answer to that and it is: "Good riddance!"
ZH donation bitcoin address?
If the .gov or Fed wanted to end Bitcoin - all they'd have to do is buy all of them. Using printed cash it wouldn't actually "cost" them anything either - and with an ultimately finite supply, they could lock the entire BitCoin system up at will. With the use of price suppression algos - it wouldn't even necessarily create that much "excess wealth" for current Bitcoin holders either.
Interesting idea, but I see two problems with it:
1) BitCoins may be similar to gold, in that the price elasticity of demand is positive-- The more expensive it gets, the more people want it. NOT the scenario you want to encourage if you are .gov. That is why the Feds manipulate the gold price DOWN, not up.
2) Unlike commodities or stocks or bonds, you cannot naked short BitCoins. So your "price suppression algos" will be very badly hamstrung.
I think if they wanted they could do some carnage to the exchanges with (the first) Dread Pirate Roberts' stash. Of course, I never really heard whether they got control over his private keys, or if they just "confiscated" a copy of his encrypted wallet from his PC, which is meaningless.
Or they could bid the price up using newly printed dollars, and then crush it down selling all their BTC at the same time. Rinse, repeat.
Wait, maybe that's what they're doing already.
That won't work in a rising market. The demand will outstrip the supply. That's why it's so important to be able to naked short-- you can counterfeit enough supply to overwhelm demand even in a rising market.
BitCoin cannot be naked shorted. This severely degrades this strategy.
It can't? Apparently you haven't noticed that in the vast majority of BTCUSD transactions, no actual BTC is being transferred? It's all BTC-denominated credit in an account at some bank (yes, the exchanges are banks).
Are you sure the ones bidding the price up want the actual BTC and are not here for the price action? How many of them bother to withdraw?
And then you have this:
http://www.plus500.com/Instruments/BTCUSD?ncr=True
Those are good points, but it seems all of the debates are totally American-centric, when the bitcoin economy is tiny in the US compared to China. The Chinese government is encouraging of participation in BTC by their citizens - the US gov is just trying to figure out how to get their cut and nothing more.
The reason a purchasing binge by TPTB could cripple B/C is because each B/C they purchased would be effectively locked-up forever. Coupled with a purchasing program - they could have locked the mining market also (who could compete with the NSAs mining horsepower if they made it a priority?)
Of course, the longer they wait - the less effective this plan would become. If they had jumped on it from the beginning, there would be very little BitCoin traffic possible because there needs to be a certain critical mass of transaction activity to make the system work smoothly.
If the number of B/C in actual circulation was too small - they would become more like a collectible than a currency.
I would ecourage the .gov to buy them all up. I have a number in mind and the sooner we get there the better.
Call it my own private Debt Jubilee.
The bitcoin network hashrate is many multiples of all the fastest supercomputers in the world combined. And even if the NSA did manage to get a significant chunk, the difficulty would adjust automatically to account for it.
the number of bitcoin in circulation is irrelevant as a single one can be divided to many decimal places. It's a deflationary system by design.
Sounds like more laws will be the result.
One wonders if that was the objective all along.
Been missing swings this wild!
They really don't seem worried by BTC actually.More a pro forma hearing.
Which makes me think the can already trach all BTC transactions , or its their creation
and this is a TEST.
Few things were asked: "Are there other digital currencies in place? What prevents a bank from running its own virtual currency? Is there the next best thing after bitcoin?"
They aren't sure whether BitCoin is "it" or of there is / will / can be something else, so they aren't ready to allocate resources to pursue something that may end up being temporary.
This is a valid line of reasoning. Bitcoin is a pioneer of sorts, but how many pioneers become defacto standards? Very few. It's a first system successfully integrated into the fiat exchanges. It's capable, but slow and it gets slower, not faster, with the increasing number of users and transactions. There is room for alternatives built upon BTC shortfalls and there may everge one that does everything BTC does plus one extra thing.
I'm taking the wait and see approach. I'm interested in BTC developments, but I don't own BTC. My goal is asset preservation as oppose to speculation, so I'm not interested in something that fluctuates by 100's of percents within a month (regardless of direction). If BitCoin produces a linear curve and maintains it for few consequtive years, I'll consider it. So far, BTC hasn't found its place. I like what BTC illustrates and that's where my sympathy ends.
Wow, a nice balanced, reasoned post. No pumping or attacking. Did I get confused and log on to the wrong site?
Indeed. The concepts behind BitCoin seem largely sound but the implementation may be flawed; it isn't clear yet. It is speculation right now, but there isn't anything wrong with speculation when done in moderation. A smart speculator might put some fiat dollars not just into BitCoins, but into some of the alternatives out there as well.
Yahoo was the first search engine, and it's still around in a pretty big way, but was later superceded by Google. But anybody remember Alta Vista? Or InfoSeek?
> but how many pioneers become defacto standards?
http, smtp, ftp, tcp/ip....all are pioneering network protocols that became the standard. Bitcoin is also a pioneering protocol that seems to be becoming the standard.
> If BitCoin produces a linear curve and maintains it for few consequtive years
That won't happen until Bitcoin permeates society like the net does. Five years, ten years tops. At that point, 1 btc will be worth hundreds or thousands of times what it is now.
Let's hope so. Protocol doesn't mean, however that the BTC itself will be valuable. You mention http, tcp/ip. Well, try investing in them. You can't. You can put money into sites, servers and companies servicing the protocols, but not into protocols themselves. Survival of BTC protocol doesn't imply survival of the currency itself. The death of Napster didn't put an end to media sharing. The death of 3DFX didn't stop development of graphics accelerators. Kodak and Polaroid didn't destroy photography and so on.
Regarding BTC appreciatino - who cares. As long as I take an asset, convert it to currency and able to then use the same currency to buy an equivalent asset back. If BTC is 1000 times more expensive, I'll buy 1/1000 of it. If it holds value, then nothing's lost, nothing gained.
If you're in the trade for the thrill of it, then you're a different kind of investor. I do work and earn a living. My work income I treat as wealth. Anything that comes out of investments I treat as windfall, something that another person lost and I happened to stumble upon. Isn't that what investing is? A transfer of wealth for an unlucky gambler to a luckier one. Meanwhile the casino loses nothing.
> You mention http, tcp/ip. Well, try investing in them. You can't.
Bictoin is a network protocol in a monetized form. Hello?
Once again, protocol is not money and it is not an investment. Data is money. The BTC network is not the currency. The hash is the currency. The internet is not money. Data transmitted via the internet protocol is what carries the value.
BTC is not unique. It can be emulated partially or fully. It has plenty of shortfalls to provide improvement opportunities for the competition.
All fiat currencies are pretty much the same in how they're issued and operated. Yet you can't easily spend another nation's money in your country. Same structure, same money, yet different. Some accepted internationally, some not.
BitCoin is a pioneer. It does a good job of attracting attention to digital currencies, before someone, perhaps, develops a better one.
DEAR SEN SCHUMER,
WE EXPECT OUR MONEY TO BE AN UNASSAILABLE STORE OF VALUE.
DEAL WITH IT.
BITCH!
Respectfully,
The Mud Man
sheep.slaughter.
from ~450 to ~900 to ~500 in a matter of 5 days....
bitcoin is dead for a long time.
good luck bitcoiners.
Martin Armstrong has an interesting take on Bitcoin. Not sure what I think.
http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/11/19/congressional-hearings-on-bitcoin/
I largely agree with his take. However, the Feds don't have unlimited resources. They can print unlimited amounts of money, but they have limited human resources to actually bring to bear. So, in their hunt for cash, they have to make priorities. The amount of $$$ in BitCoin right now is tiny, therefore, this will be low on their list of priorities as they need cash NOW. When BitCoins are worth $100K they might have a different opinion.
I definitely agree with his take that they want to eliminate cash and force a 100% digital currency: The Mark of The Beast. So I'm sure they are looking at BitCoin very carefully as a model. It's a flawed model for their purposes, IMO, but I'm confident they don't realize that...yet.
Sorry Gavin. Dont mean to be a douche to u.
Over
Bitcoin could force the central banks to embrace Gold and silver to save their FIAT.