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Guest Post: The Future Of Bitcoin Is In Asia...
Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,
Senator Tom Carper (Delaware) is confused about Bitcoin.
As Chairman of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, this is how Carper framed his opening remarks yesterday at a hearing about digital currencies– with complete, incoherent confusion.
Carper’s hearing went on for several hours as one witness after another testified about the potential evils of digital currencies. They hailed from agencies and organizations like:
- The Homeland Security committee
- Criminal Division of the US Attorney General’s Office
- US Secret Service Criminal Investigative Division
- The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network
- The International Centre for Missing & Exploited Children
Based on the way they stacked the witness list, the message they’re sending is clear: digital currencies like Bitoin equate to crime, terrorism, and child exploitation.
But the height of absurdity in yesterday’s hearing probably came during the testimony from the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), in which the agency’s chief cited the BENEFITS of digital currencies, including:
- anonymity
- simple, easy to navigate
- lower fees than the conventional financial system
- globally accessible
- can be used as both a store of value and medium of exchange
- security
etc.
Yet in listing all of these benefits, FinCEN’s chief was actually trying to make a case AGAINST Bitcoin! In her mind, only criminal terrorists want low-fee, secure, globally accessible money.
All of these politicians and bureaucrats can’t wait to get their arms around digital currency to regulate the hell out of it. They don’t understand it… therefore they think it’s dangerous.
Even the World Bank president (a US government-appointed stooge) weighed in on digital currencies. It’s obvious they’re all afraid.
And their entire argument begins with the deeply flawed premise that financial privacy is somehow wrong, immoral, and nefarious.
There’s no sense trying to convince them otherwise. Government’s mission is to obstruct… particularly a government in decline.
So we can expect more hearings, more regulation, more disclosures. At least, in the Land of the Free.
Over here on the other side of the world, though, they’re not afraid of Bitcoin.
Places like Hong Kong and Singapore understand that they have a role to play as preeminent international financial centers in becoming financial hubs for digital currencies.
If the US wants to shoot itself in the foot (again) and shut itself out of the market, so be it. But Asia is embracing its potential role in the marketplace, complete with all the risks and rewards.
It wasn’t but a few weeks ago that a Hong Kong-based bitcoin exchange ran off with a few million dollars of customer money. But that hasn’t cooled demand in the region… nor has it sparked a wave of debilitating regulations to clamp down on digital currencies.
What this ultimately means is that all the new businesses and intellectual capital associated with digital currencies will flock to Asia… just in the same way that all the cutting edge precious metals firms are now basing themselves in Singapore.
The US government is sharpening its steak knives in anticipation of a great digital currency roast. But they’ll find out very soon that Bitcoin has left the building… and moved on to greener, safer pastures in Asia.
This is good news, especially for second generation digital currencies and related firms like litecoin, ripple, and ven.
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I just signed up and am going to make my first buy after the next price crash!
Anyone use Coinbase?
As Bit Coin is divisible up to 8 decimal places, it is obvious the software was designed with the thought it mind that at some time each coin could be worth a considerable sum. So large a sum that it would be necessary to be divided considerably, in order to allow for typical business transactions.
If we were to assume the eighth decimal place was a penny then each Bit Coin would have a value of $1mil.
What can you buy for a penny?
If we were to assume the eighth decimal place was a dollar then each Bit Coin would have a value of $100mil (If my math is correct).
The only thing they need to fear about bitcoin is buying it at the top.
They are frustrated because they missed out on the amazing bitcoin bubble buildup.
I'm waiting for KosherCoin to be rolled out by TPTB.
@Silver is King: Yes, I do. It is difficult though when demand spikes because they have a certain amount they have for sale each day. Good news, you get them for a really great price compared to their current trade on Mt. Gox... I checked a few minutes ago and it was $550 or so.
I'm loading up on Tulipcoin!
The future of Tulipcoin is in Europe...
http://vimeo.com/39214992
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/That_Joke_Isn't_Funny_Anymore
Well, 2 Tulipcoins will buy you an ounce of gold ... so ...
Bitcoin + Physical Gold = Bitbond + Bitmortgage
http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/bitcoin-physical-gold-bitbond.html
If you could guarantee me that Bitcoin will have no competitor(https://litigation-essentials.lexisnexis.com/webcd/app?action=DocumentDisplay&crawlid=1&doctype=cite&docid=14+Chi.+J.+Int'l+L.+377&srctype=smi&srcid=3B15&key=06f69db5295968bbe4dfbb2b278e317b), then Bitcoin is the future...but Summers just indicated otherwise!
I like your posts, TSP. You are one of the few here who have been offerring a fresh perspective.
Have you heard from Joyful and iDog? I hope they are well.
Thanks Prisoner.
Nope, not seen (heard) either of them.....NSA Drone Strike?!
If you're going to quote an existing study, then make sure you provide a link to said study, and not some "preview" linkbait. There's fuck all chance I'm going to spend $15 finding out what it says.
"If you're going to quote an existing study, then make sure you provide a link to said study, and not some "preview" linkbait"....no, I won't.
"There's fuck all chance I'm going to spend $15 finding out what it says."....good for you!
"Yet in listing all of these benefits, FinCEN’s chief was actually trying to make a case AGAINST Bitcoin! In her mind, only criminal terrorists want low-fee, secure, globally accessible money."
When you fear everyone, everything looks like a threat to you.
This would be an ideal area for the government to step back and say "we don't know, so we're going to leave it alone." But no, they're going straight to Plan A: "if it moves, regulate it, control it, corrupt it."
Plan A? That doesn't sound profitable and involves work. That's just where it will end up.
Bankers have their preferred Plan Z: Hypothicate it and milk the useless eaters, then let the bureaucrats work on Plan A.
She brought up the subject of offshore hidden accounts and basically came right out and said Bitcoin will be putting Swiss banks out of business from the comfort of my own living room (and at lower cost, too!).
Why even have the word 'coin' in it?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/coin
Why not just call it a 'Bitfiat'?
Ummm... because it isn't fiat?
That the US would be far behind in Bitcoin technology and the most hostile towards it doesn't surprise me at all as the US was the epicenter of the world's biggest financial crimes in recorded history. I guess the fake libertarians won't be getting crumbs thrown from Lloyd and Jamie's daily bread anymore? Shame, shame.
Please change your name to "bitcoinstar".
No, the name fonestar goes back to the days of the Motorola AnalOG bag fones.
Digi-Shekl
Yep. But luckily, you can still get free bitcoins at http://freebitco.in/?r=25727 . So no need to start crying yet!
Whatever happens to Bitcoin...it's been fascinating to watch.
Indeed it has and that joke definitely isn't funny anymore. Caught Johnny Marr earlier this year and he was superb!
Indeed, Meat Hammer and TeamDepends!
Just to be fair, Mr. Bitcoin thinks Mr Bondy has made money illegal and dangerous, and he may have a point there.
Don't buy Bitcoins, it's a Ponzi, can be easily hacked, bla bla bla.
Don't buy bitcoins, China's got an EMP device, can easily destroy wallets held under the airspace over american cities, bla bla bla, and the suns magnetic reversal will change all 1s to 0s and vice versa, reversing all transactions all the way back to Satoshi, bla bla bla.
"Don't buy bitcoins..."
Right. Start a business (tee-shirts or some shit) and accept bitcoins.
Coinbase is fine for buying BTC. You link your checking account to your Coinbase account. They do have various limits(both buying and selling), which can be increased to a degree, the more info you give them. Not where I care to trade. I buy there and then move them to trading exchanges. Be sure and set up Coinbase's 2FA(two factor authentication) before you transfer money to your account or buy or store BTC at Coinbase. 2FA is a must anywhere online to do with cryptocurrency. No 2FA, go elsewhere.
They have a reputation for not delivering when you buy before the price goes up, even reversing after the bank cleared.
u may have a good chance of buying under 450 (MtGox price) imminently (as in within hours of this message) ... grab its straight northbound from there . u can thank me tomorrow .... (its 610 right now)
I am very interested to know how you predicted that.
maybe http://redd.it/1r1dmk. There was a lot of similar chatter going on and a big sale did go through. The Gox engine choked and it showed up as 36k coins but I believe only 6-8k sold, sending it down $100. Bought some.
ANONYMITY??? ... Bitcoin is not anonymous - try ZEROCOIN when it's ready
the newest crypto-currency is invisicoin................send ur fiat into a black hole, never to be seen again......
www.invisicoin.com
I'm getting nothing from that link. Is it correct?
Over.
It's so invisible it can't be found...
Still nothing. Can you guys please check that link cuz it's just not working for me.
Is it my ISP? Cuz if those somebitchez are blocking my freedoms I'm going to crack some skulls!
Over.
It must be in another dimension, right now - hypercyberspace, or something.
I think Bitcoin is stupid. You can't hold it in your hand right? And it's not backed by anything. I heard that there will be solar flares that wipe out all Bitcoins. And anyway, it's just used for terrorism 'n such. (NOTE: Please, please people keep saying this stuff, I need to accumulate more before the last die-hard non-believer capitulates).
Nice try (no luck, though)...
Also: Bitcoin's Vast Overvaluation Appears Caused By Price-Fixing - Falkvinge on Infopolicy
"the newest crypto-currency is invisicoin"
lol...well played sir.
True dat! Please incorporate http://zerocoin.org into all future forks. Also please migrate upward off of 256 to 512 or dare I say 1024.
TY Zerocoin!
Over.
I already have zerocoin thanks to the markets (or what passes as markets).
PPcoin for those on the go. </s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPCoin
I'm waiting for PoohPoohCoin. There are 60 cryptocurrencies now and counting. You have to have a ton of technical knowledge to sort thru the pros and cons. For every expert who loves it there's one who hates it.
Love it or not, you cant trade bitcoins with your neighbor when TSHTF. You might as well have gold certificates out of Comex. You guys are crazy.
I accept bitcoins from my neighbours, and will do so when TSHTF, as long as as bitcoins are still worth something.
If anything HTF, I don't think bitcoins would be high on people's priority list.
You don't use stores of wealth (like gold, or presumably, BitCoin) after the SHTF-- you HIDE them. You will be trading with whiskey, eggs, flour, rice, toilet paper, jerrycans of gas, etc.
You only use your stores of wealth AFTER the economy has started to rebuild itself again.
precisely, you disappear for a week then come back and tell everything was stolen this cant be happening, etcetc.
Yeah....you can. Never heard of a stationary bike, alternator, car battery, and router? Long stationary bikes.
Question: If BTC fluctuated between $200 and $1,000 for the year and oil fluctuated between $90 and $100 for the year, how much gas can I buy, at any given time, with a bitcoin?
Answer: None, because no filling station where I live will take a bitcoin for payment.
Yet...
Your local gas station probably doesn't take gold, silver, or food either, so don't save any of those, either, just put everything into dollars and treasuries!
They take Treasurys now? Just how much is gas where you live?
Should anyone be surprised that the future of Bitcoin is in Asia? When so many Americans seem hostile towards mathematics, cryptography and genius?
In your brave new world, you really believe people are going to sit around waiting for the Wells Fargo wagon to pull into town with your gold bars as payment? Sorry, I hate (love) to burst your bubble but people are going to expect faster electronic payment than before. They are going to want more technological innovation, not less.
There's always going to be currency as well as money in this world. Right now Bitcoin is the strongest and most advanced currency on Earth.
Depends on which S hits which F.
If you're talking about the Zombie Apocalypse, then no, BTC won't help much (nor will large bars of gold or silver).
But think of a Cyprus-like scenario, with sudden freezes on bank accounts followed by asset seizures; or an Argentinian one, with controls on capital movement. The ability to transfer money in/out of the country at will, anonymously or otherwise, is not something to take for granted.
(As a bonus, if played out in a large country such as the US or UK you can imagine the effect that such a scenario would have on the BTC price.)
What if your neighbours do not live in United States? And even if they do, why not? Bitcoin is a global currency.
Bitcoin or not Bitcoin, we still see the s&p's at 1900 by year end.
Our 2014 target is however 2400.
Abby is that you?
Over.
Government can't understand what it ostensibly was founded for in the first place. Freedom. And that should be the most telling part of any of this. The U.S.A. is no longer the land of any kind of freedom. You have at best "provisional" freedom. If you tried to actually use your rights in a way that is objectional to the corporations or government, you'd find out really fast how little you have.
Its like the conundrum, registering for a permit to protest. That's bollocks. You just have the goddamn protest, don't queue up at a government office somewhere to get permission to speak. That's just one example of what is very wrong in the U.S.
As for Bitcoin, they'll bumble and flail around while the rest of the world assesses the situation and adopts or rejects. But from what has been happening lately, the rest of the world senses an opportunity to tell those privileged empire-builders to go and truly fuck off.
Your move, USA.
A who's who is of world-wide assholes of the highest order, are already owners of BTC, ( winkelvoss twins, ... facebook money, google money, twitter money ... ) aka NSA money
Anybody that thinks that the the current BTC is a anti-fascist, is a moron.
What you are saying makes no sense. Google, the Mellon family and others may be trying to steer the project but we can alway fork. I am not upgrading my client until something clear comes about.
BUBBLE. BTC is a bubble. (There, now I'm done talking about it... forever.)
It may or may not be. As hostile as I am to the premise (yes, this Luddite does not appreciate the digital, hence ethereal and potentially insecure nature), I am not upset that the speculators are doing extremely well. I do however take offense at the notion that BTC is now being called a "store of value". MY ASS. The 21M limit is coded in, not a mathematical limit. "By agreement" blah blah, all the bullshit that fiat money was "bound by" etc. No thanks. I prefer my stores of value to have physical limitations. Otherwise, carry on and congrats to all making buku profit.
I am also opined that Bitcoin is a bubble the likes of which haven't been seen since tulip bulbs were a store of value.
The way we view it, the USD is actually the bubble.
Lullaby for HulkHogan and all the lonely bears out there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7TuFy0fcuw
beautiful!
Be sure to tip her some BTC ;) I did.
Hilarious. Here's her other number: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2ku1A5Ox8U I like this one even better.
in other news part of jp morgans fine will be tax deductible ! you have to laugh ... americans deserve every bit of shit they get ... unbelievable
Do I write the tax code? Blame the assholes @ the IRS, not the average US citizen that cringes in fear each year after hitting the 'send' button.
That being said, it is logical that if you make $x, then lose $y, you will end up paying less tax. They just don't get to spend the $y on party hats-it goes straight to the .gov. Which is owned by the...wait for it...IRS.
"Based on the way they stacked the witness list, the message they’re sending is clear: digital currencies like Bitoin equate to crime, terrorism, and child exploitation."
Ummm...news flash: The powers that be, i.e. Globalist scum ARE the criminals, terrorists, child exploiters/molesters/kidnappers/killers/pedophiles, etc. They just don't like anyone else stepping on their good times.
I think the Globalists like Bitcoin to a certain extent...
1. it's combats the dollar and I'm thinking the Globalists are all for eventually crashing the dollar and replacing it as the world's reserve currency with their own something or other...
2. what might that something or other be? Well, I think we all know the Globalists want to move the entire world to a digital currency because they can control every aspect of our lives once everything is digital. They're setting up the control grid now and SkyNet will surveil us night and day...if we do or say things wrong we will immediately be penalized, etc., etc.
3. I get this bad feeling Bitcoin or other digital currencies, if not already secretly created by the Globalists, then they will figure out a way to co-opt those digital currencies in order to blend them into the type of digital currency the Globalists want to use to control the world with.
4. I also think what the Globalists are moving towards is a carbon currency or energy currency. They will use carbon or energy units to control our consumption and everything about our lives which will then dictate how many carbon or energy credits will be alotted in order to survive with.
This shit was all game-planned by them decades ago. Something like Bitcoins, whether created by the Globalists or by some free entity/computer programmer were always in their plans. They will eventually try to take it over and use it against us in the worst ways possible.
Just a theory...but I certainly don't think they're scared of it...they will always figure out how to "weaponize" it against us while they get richer and gain more power and control over the world.
Bitcoin followers beware.
Joe Kennedy speaks from the grave to you:
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1996/04/15/211503/
LOL, that link was from 1996-- a great time to sell stocks! /sarc
Litecoin & others aren't "second generation". They're just cheap clones of bitcoin. Bitcoin is the state of the art. Some alts are interesting but they are in no way "second generation". We need the first generation to grow up first.... it's still an infant :)
If ltc is a clone of btc wouldn't that make ltc state of the art?
Well, litecoin uses a different cryptography than bitcoin, so you have to uses General Purpose Computing on a CPU or GPU for litecoin at this time. That means using hundreds of times more electricity to achieve the same level of network security.
So basically sha256 cryptocoins are a better bet in general? Just trying to make sense of it all.
If you are planning on spending real money - like hundreds or thousands of dollars - bitcoin is the most established coin out there. If you just want to mine some coins yourself withoiut spending a fortune on equipment, litecoin or other scrypt coins are a reasonable proposition.
I don't understand the Proof of Stake coins or any of the other cryptographic coins, like Prime numbers or other exotic or blended methods.
Katy Perry sings "Hot N Cold" with Elmo on Sesame Street!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHROHJlU_Ng (2:33)
Just wait until the mining pools are controlled by the government(s). Rather than some skinny dudes in Bangalore with a thousand xbox motherboards and 23 air conditioners, bitcoin will be mined at the fantastic new data center in Utah. Eventually, the government(s) will control this thing. To think otherwise is ill advised. Until then, the wild wild west.
conspicio I thought exaclty the same, maybe the FED and the Chinese gov are the ones buying bitcoins right how, the idea is to be the troyan horse and destroy it from within .
How?
"Economic Majority" is the key:
"...The miner's code could be modified to change the rules and grant any number of coins but that block then would be relayed to peers. Since that change breaks the protocol, peer nodes would reject that block as being invalid and then would not relay it.
Now if other nodes run the same change and thus accept that block, they will relay it but it still doesn't matter if nobody will buy those mined coins.
So there would be a reason for enough people (an "economic majority") to decide that the change is wanted and to be willing to buy those coins from the miner.
But if you hold bitcoins, you wouldn't want those to be devalued and thus would reject the change.
And if you have borrowed coins and have to repay, and the lender will refuse any coins issued after the change occurred, then you won't buy those coins from the miners either.
So yes ... technically it is as easy as changing one line of code. But getting the economic majority to accept the change is the hard part (essentially the impossible part, for the change you are suggesting)."
(from " How hard is the 21 million cap on bitcoin?" discussion on bitcoin talk)
When the author of this comment says "...But if you hold bitcoins, you wouldn't want those to be devalued and thus would reject the change.", he is missing this part "...UNLESS YOU ARE THE FED AND/OR OTHER CENTRAL BANKS AROUND THE WOLRD"
If the bitcoin community discovered such a plot, they could simply fork the chain and ignore all work coming from the government nodes.
divide et impera.
Given that only faith and/or greed supports the value of Bitcoin, as opposed to a nuclear navy and giant grey war complex- intentionally forking the blockchain should only be considered in the same vein as cutting off one's left nut in order to save the right nut.
if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every battle
I suppose that is why free market capitalism inevitably gets corrupted into a fascist state.
The value of the total global holdings of bitcoin are what... $3-5B -ish at current values? Even if it cost $10B or $20B to gain a majority interest, chump play for any central bank. Then they slowly buy the mining pools out of existence. All of this distributed forking horseshit. Give me break. Everyone has a price and the central banks will laugh as they "make it rain" to shut this down via majority control inside and on the production side in the current form. The Cornell paper from Eyal and Sirer is spot on. Put the 2/3 rule into bitcoin or die as a currency.
Yes, a central bank (or a group of them) could spend tens of billions to gain a majority interest,
but what if the BRICS countries did not want to let them (the NATO countries) do it,
or decided to create a rival that they would dominate?
Did Eyal & Sirer discuss this?
How on earth do they buy that many BitCoins without the price moving against them in a MAJOR way??
You are making some heroic assumptions.
And this is probably why the NSA and CIA will need a $500 billion price tag each in their budget(s) in order to equip a new pair of data centers that just handle BTC transactions.
Bitcoin Open to Takeover, Researchers Discover With New Algorithm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131104112234.htm
it's a good day to buy gold - not many deals on ebay not much for sale to be honest... Sure one can pay a premium of $50 per ounce - once the supply dries up a bit more, expect gold to shoot up and BtC to stagnate - they will keep it around like a pinyata full of candy but anyone with any real sense buys physical precious metal or rare commodities that cannot be created out of thin air. I'm long vintage fiesta and gold/silver own no BtC and will probably never unless 7-11 takes them as payment.
Wow. I am reading Bitcoin advice from people who recall the introduction of the polio vaccine and who buy their gold on eBay.
Zero hedge has jumped the shark. Might as well just go read reddit. At least I know what I am dealing with there.
Take a pill dude.What the guy is saying is not that radical. He simply wants a quick, easy way to get rid of it for an asset like all people do.
But that is what's exciting. I've talked to a few people my age (older than you) and some your age and most of them have never heard of BC. They actually thought I was nuts. It's in it's infancy, some early ons have got rich and some have lost a bundle, but shit happens. When you can go down to 7-11 and buy a Red Bull, the thing will have already skyrocketed.
cool...see 'ya later !
I think bitcoin can be great for transactions, but is not so great for investment. So I hold only a few btcoins. Many flames for and against, and most of the people flaming on both sides do IMHO not really understand bitcoin. But it looks like a bubble to me right now.
Enter this guy, who previously said he invested all his funds in bitcoin, and thus wants the value to rise. But he is warning that the current valuation is too high, and that this small market looks manipulated: http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/13/bitcoins-vast-overvaluation-seems-to-be-...
'I think bitcoin can be great for transactions, but is not so great for investment.'
You, sir, are close to the keys to the kingdom: understanding MONEY (not currency).
What is money?
Money, REAL money is 2 things:
1. A means of exchange
2. A store of value
Most fiat currencies today are really, really good at #1, but are absolutely lethal to your wealth if you use them as #2.
Now consider for a minute your arcade game tokens, er, bitcoin as a STORE OF VALUE, not a means of exchange. Do you think bitcoin will be worth the same a year from now? More? Or less? Honest money means its value will remain relatively unchanged. Both the creditor and the debtor can rely on it so BOTH are not screwed (by the money, anyway).
Oh, and consider your opinion today versus a year from now. Or 2 years. Or 20 years. What did you think a bitcoin was worth this time last year? Or in 2010? Gold has been around for 5,000 years. People rely on it because they have valued it the same way for several millenia, despite the rise and fall of countless empires. How about bitcoin? Oh, it's been around since 2009, huh? And now it is going through a glaringly obvious blow off top due to speculation, huh?
Yeah. That's a reliable store of value all right. Good luck convincing people with two brain cells that it is reliable, honest money. Speculate with it all you want. But don't try to convince me it's MONEY. It's a currency. It's unsurpassed as a flexible means of exchange . . . but you are a moonbat if you think I'll store my wealth in it.
That's what GOLD is for.
Well for all time you had to have 'specialized knowledge' to get rich, and be in the right place at the right time.
On the subject of wealth, 99% of all rich folk made their money in real-estate, and by that I mean after they got rich on some pet-rock, they took that cash and bought land or farm-land, ... and waited.
Holding CASH your money will always evaporate, of course when your over 50, and see only a few years later, its best to hold cash.
But honest talk of holding cash, there is only SGD, CHF, and NOK,... let's be honest here when the ZH herds are done pumping&dumping BTC, it will be back to $10 or less.
For those youngsters smart enough to jump the band-wagon, and create their own crypto-currency and get dick zero heads to pump it for you, be sure to buy all the real estate you can while the money is flowing, cuz when the game is over, you need to holding something 'real'.
The first nation to adopt BitCoin as their national currency will be the next empire of the world.
I hope it isn't Greece.
That country would have to acquire a decent stake in the coins, and then issue them to their citizens in exchange for their old currency. A nation might be better of coming up with its own cryptocurrency, and giving all of its citizens an equal chance to acquire mining equipment. That way, the new money is distributed amongst the citizens, rather than being focused into the hands of a few banks.
Their own fiat pegged to the bitcoin.
That'll do it.
If Greece citizens adopted bitcoin as their defacto curency for everyday use, how could that actually work? Some sort of encripted Iphone app? If it could be done practically, it would have by now.
Yes, plenty of Android Bitcoin wallet apps exist. The increasing number of merchants accepting Bitcoin for goods and services will be a major news story next year. It just takes time... There's an awesome photo of my hand paying Bitcoin for dinner as reported by Wired Magazine.
Why wouldn't someone just use litecoin or one of the dozen other crypto-currencies? It's 7 bucks and does exactly the same things.
Much more useful to a non speculator. Didn't even know of alternatives.
Nice to know, thanks!
No problem. Some of them aren't traded on Mt. Gox or popular exchanges yet, but once they are the bitcoin will be back under $10. What is driving it is speculation on the exchanges, not demand for the coins for legit transactions, because that can be done via any of the other currencies.
Another huge problem of these currencies, and what will cause failure, is that there's no recourse if anything goes wrong with a transaction. e.g. I would never buy one for $600, buy goods, and then hope some criminal on the other end actually mails them. It is a racket perpetuated by cyberdorks who see a chance to have their day in the sun. If an actual cryptocurrency becomes legit, it will lose anonymity, so the problem is and will always be completion of the transaction. What you see in the price action is pure speculation on exchanges by traders. I know this because the currencies not on the exchanges are cheap. So it is not a reflection of demand for use in transactions.
Because, sonny boy, back in my day before all these fancy dancy credit cards and consumer protection regulators out the whazoo, there was something called "caveat emptor", buyer beware. When I was going to buy something, I had to be damn sure what I was getting and from whom. Nowadays youngins be throwing money around teh internets as if it dropped from helicopters. It comes around and bites me as hidden costs and transaction fees.
Competing virtual currencies are great, it strengthens the whole system and the best will survive. Today in front of Congress BitPay kept repeating they manage 12,000 merchants using Bitcoin. Coinbase has similar numbers and countless merchants are doing DIY Bitcoin payments. Compared to Bitcoin, Litecoin has a lot less hashing power protecting it. Some virtual currencies (Feathercoin) have been destroyed through 51% attacks.
I do agree with you on that all you BTC fuckheads can all cannibilize one another and wait until who is that last man standing.
Given your all using the same susceptible technology for 'attacks', and given that you will all kill the competition by giving them a bad name, ther is no doubt that everyone in the crypto-currency world will fuck each other to death to get their 'share of suckers'.
In the end, when the word is out that everyone is a fucker, ... there will be no vendors to accept the shit, and no suckers to put real money into the system.
Like I said earlier all these unused mining machines will soon be turned into attack machines, and the whole fucking BTC fraud people will start seeing all the shit evaporate before their eyes.
With NO FUCKING recourse.
devo
sorry thats horeshit about no recourse
shopify just turned on Bitcoin for 70,000 merchants. Do you think Shopify and all its merchants are going to take a bath?
Back to grade schoool for you
yep, you have been conditioned 'no recourse', just another reason to use a credit card, because then its the banks problem,
when the exchange goes down your BTC is gone, ... its all non-recourse, and once you BUY something your fucked, ... yep a really nice new world you fuck heads have created for yourselves,
But I understand here in Asia, you buy something you don't bring it back, like in the USA.
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Yes, people take a bath all the time, and they raise the prices to pay for that bath, its called biz,
Mt-Gox is the ultimate trojan horse for the non-aware, just a fucking honey-trap.
Everybody is creating BTC, or fake 'coin', but nobody wants to give you real money back... Even the mt-gox bid/ask is a joke, in terms of time and return.
Probably another reason for the 'fake' buildup of BTC is keep folks in, because once the redemptions begin, it will go down below $10 and quick,... today it dropped $900 to $500, but most of the withdrawls take day's so we don't even know how many sell orders are in the queue,
It may already be too late to get any money back, and you would never know.
China likes the Bitcoin transaction lead generation, following the money. A Fascist tool is never ignored.
FASCISM by definition is corporations and government, and that can only happen in the USA and Europe.
CHINA is 100% communist government. China doesn't have to fucking listen to the corporations.
USA is 100% FASCISM. In the USA the corporations contorl the government.
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I think given that the USD will collapse the CHINA government is wise in telling its people to buy gold and bitcoin.
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When BTC goes up in means the USD is going down. Just like GOLD, if GOLD goes up, then the USD is going down, that is the correct way to see things.
Tyler, how much are you getting paid to promote bitcoin?
Seriously, this is sad.
Every other crypto-currency $1-10. Bitcoin $600-1k. All have the SAME advantage (anonymity, unregulated, etc). Litecoin is actually faster. Just shows how pathetic this pump and dump is and how big a sucker these people are, buying from Max Keiser, the Winklevoss dorks, and apparently the Tylers.
Exactly,
Anyone can create a crypto currency. There is no barrier to entry and nothing to protect the sanctuary.
It's success will be its downfall.
Any highly intelligent technologist can create his own 'coin' ( high tech chain letter )
But only an honest person will succeed, and only a true P2P will exist over the long term.
Like the Mt-Gox situation, just a fucking 'bank' like Chase, and then the 'attackers' will eventually get the 'coin' ( chain letters ), when they're all kept in one place.
The original design by Satoshi will stand, the problem is the 'bitcoin org' has become political, just like wash-dc, and has designed the 'mining', and 'pooling', and 'exchange' world, in Satoshi's orginal design there was none of this.
So in essence the original P2P crypto-currency has already be co-opted by fucking assholes.
Out of the mess of 1,000's of 'coins' will come a few honest and real people who offer a true P2P system, that cannot be controlled by gubmint, and taxed by one man.
What we don't need in crypt-currency world is more bill gates and billionaires, what we need is 100% free transfer of our money, with no gubmint over-sight or control, and no ass hole stealing a percentage of our money at every turn.
Bitcoin has wide spread adoption; the infrastructure for alt coins is not really there. I am certain that the creators of bitcoin did not choose 600-second target times arbitrarily.
The lower the block time, the easier it is for an attacker to gain control, or for a smaller group to simply monopolize money creation. What happens is, if you have a fast enough machine, if you find a block and then someone else does right after, your block gets accepted and theirs becomes an orphan. Then, while they are flushing out the work they wasted, you find another block, and it turns into a streak where one fast miner or pool is constantly ahead of everyone else.
I tried mining some alternate coins with 30 and 45 second block times, and found that it was possible to be stuck in state of constantly throwing away work due to someone else having a faster machine, and the difficulty not rising fast enough, so a block was being found every couple seconds.
With litecoin, anyone with a large cluster of regular CPUs could easily create a 51% attack; I'll look into how difficult and costly it would be to hire out cloud services to equal the total network power.
I think the days of solo mining are over for all crypto coins, right? Those are the early adopters who are selling at these ridiculous prices now.
Is what you mention an issue if mining in a pool?
Again, just look at the ones trading on these low volume exchanges. It is clearly speculation, not demand for actual transactions. The early adopters created a narrative people are buying.
The major pools are getting one block a day, with 100's million of hashes, its now impossible for a solo miner to mine,
So essentially the 'pools' are now banks, and even then the efficiency of mining is kapoot. That's why everybody has left bitcoin mining and gone to the smaller 'coins'.
The reason that BTC goes up is there is no market to sell it, and the entry is only to BUY, and the mining was kapoot back in April 2013.
Let the USA embrace BITCOIN, and tax the shit out of it and regulate, and then watch to see what HK does, or better yet the real anarchist community.
Today's "pools" and "exchanges" are no different than 'banks' that all of you hate.
The problem is we need to go back to SOLO mining, and true P2P, take out the fucking middleman, because that is where the USA government will go for control.
The pools/banks charge miners a fee, too, right? At least the majority that I researched. Agree with the P2P, etc, but the problem is once it becomes popular either the crooks or govt step in.
This bitcoin thing reminds me of my friends harvesting virtual crops in Farmville. Go out and buy a real coin, dorks.
Yes, pools charge a 'fee', just like an ATM or a bank.
Exchanges charge a fee, just like a fucking ATM, and you know they will go up, up, up once they have monopoly hold, and they will be bought up by BIG fucking assholes like GOOGLE(tm).
A true p2p can never be sold, this is really a god damn fucking war,
Satoshi's 'bitcoin' has been stolen by the god-damn fucking assholes, the orginal bitcoin was pure and a good idea, so just maybe the 'lite-coin' with the same code, but using a different hash-algo that is more egalitarian, now SHA gives the chinese an advantage to mine, as the ASIC's are made in china.
The orginal bitcoin was 100% pure P2P, and along came the fucking assholes who put in tollbooths ( exchanges, and pools ), ... that is where the crooks hang-out, and that is where the gubmints will tax ( destroy ).
That's what I see, too, from my limited research. I probably didn't have to research it at all. Bernanke endorsed it, so you know it's bad.
"It is clearly speculation"
Speculating on the future value of an industry is a valid investment strategy. Reference: venture capital funds.
And what industry would that be? Bitcoin is literally nothing but a can of steam - more suited to mis-venture capital.
Oh, just 3 industries off the top of my head...
Currencies: Bitcoin willing to take on any and all currencies worldwide and their central banks.
Payment Processors: Credit cards, Paypal, Western Union, meet the new guy in town.
Banks: who needs em? "Be your own bank"
LOL meet gullible.
Btc is a ponzi by definition, so using banks as comparison is entirely accurate; it doesn't produce anything, though, so it's not an industry - at best, it's a service... unfortunately, not to the honest, decent people at large...
industry... service industry... whatever.
Your post doesn't deserve a response but...
If your definition of a Ponzi is anything that, when demand decreases, loses value... then Gold and BTC are both Ponzi schemes. However, the quantity of Gold and BTC neither decreases or increases as individuals join or leave the market. Actually the scarcity of gold is diluted as more Miners ramp up to satisfy increasing demand, not so Bitcoin.
Latecomers rewarding early adopters - Ponzi pretty much defined. Don't quite see how gold fits in that description.
Anyway, yawn....
I don't get it. Any new thing of value has to be distributed equally to everybody simultaneously (avoiding the early adopter/latecomer conundrum) so as to avoid the Ponzi moniker? Where's my frickin' IBM and Google shares, Comrade?
Exactly! Shares are placed on the market in bulk, to give everyone the same chance; btc/ponzis do exactly the opposite, to maximized profit for earlytakers at the expense of late arrivals - get it now?
Where do Larry Page and Sergey Brin fit in?
All are on the NSA/CIA payroll.
Well, Bitcoin's "initial public offering" was 03/Jan/2009. It has always been publicly offered for anybody to mine or buy the asset: BTC. It is only natural that an asset increases in value over time as demand increases (actually losing 40% of value today, haha!)
I'd rather reward directly a creator for his idea, whether it'd be Larry, Sergey, Mark, or "Satoshi", than speculator middlemen who contributed nothing to it.
I agree this guy is some kind of troll equating physical gold with paper wealth, he must be think of ETF gold.
Even Satoshi defines the bit-coin as a 'signature chain' of bit's (computer). A fucking high-tech chain letter, that is passed around the last guy get nothing and only the first in get the loot. It's called a pyramid scam.
The problem is the kids these days never heard of 'chain letters', but they were a big deal when I was a kid. They were pyramid scams.
A ponzi is when you buy something, and the guy uses late investors to pay interest to the newbies, this is why MADOFF is a ponzi.
But BTC is a chain-letter, and SATOSHI in his first paper defines it as such.
End of fucking story.
You are equating the blockchain with a chain letter. That is all. I'm outta here.
Yes, run like hell troll, because Satoshi himself liken's the block-chain, to a 'chain-letter', no fucking difference, just cuz it runs a computer doesn't mean its not fraud.
Why can't Joe Schmoe do a 'save as' of the Bitcoin architecture call it Bitcoin2 and release another crypto currency?
If it looks like Bitcoin and sounds like Bitcoin, why shouldn't it trade at parity?
There are now 21m Bitcoin's and 21m Bitcoin2's
So the address space is compartmentalised, but if these identical currencies trade at parity why does that matter?
How is this different to inflation?
Go for it, nothing is stopping you investing your time trying it out. Suggestion: get your copy-cat listed on BTC-E along with all the others and see if anybody will buy it. Also be prepared for when some bored Miners point their equipment at your currency and utterly destroy it.
Ah, but they don't trade at parity. In fact, due to network effect the sum of market caps of all alt-coins is a tiny fraction of the market cap of Bitcoin. Will this change? Time will tell.
http://coinmarketcap.com/
Why can't someone launch Bitcoin 2.0? An identical copy of Bitcoin.
It would be exactly the same and do exactly the same thing and work in exactly the same way. What is to stop people from ripping off the idea?
It's basically like the dotcom bubble, where there were this huge valuations but then some kid would show up with an identical service 6 months later running it off a laptop in his dorm.
What are the barriers that protect Bitcoin from copycat currencies?
Is anyone obliged to use bitcoins in the way we are obliged to accept legal tender? No.
The copyright for the code isn't even protected as the author doesn't exist!
Once the miners exhaust bitcoins, they will start mining litecoins (gotta do something with their chips) and the miners will put their money into PR for litecoins. Suddenly litecoins will rocket as an alternative.
It's a pure Ponzi scheme, there is no mechanism of value creation and you need more and more new investors to keep driving up the price.
As I said, it's not just litecoins, but there are dozens of currencies that carry all the benefits of BTC, at a fraction of the cost. BTC likes to act like having 21mil coins somehow limits their inflation, but really that is bullshit, because 1BTC can be broken down 8 decimal places, so you can actually own 00000001 of a coin.
It is a very clear pump and dump by Max Keiser, Dork twins, etc. It is amazing there are people stupid enough to believe some of the terrible arguments out there (e.g. that they have intrinsic value, can't be regulated, etc).
The ability to break something down into tiny fractions doesn't mean you can inflate the supply.
You can't inflate the supply of oil by breaking it down into 1/10 of a barrel.
But with Bitcoin you can create 21million more bitcoins simply by doing a "save as" of the entire architecture and calling it Bitcoin2.
You have just doubled the address space. Now let's assume as these two currencies are identical, they trade at parity.
That's inflatable, in fact it's the same as USD.
True, it's dilution not inflation. But that will harm buyers on a % basis.
"BTC likes to act like having 21mil coins somehow limits their inflation, but really that is bullshit, because 1BTC can be broken down 8 decimal places, so you can actually own 00000001 of a coin "
If I give money (one dollar)to three groups, all with the same number of people in them:
Group A: 4 quarters
Group B: 20 Nickels
Group C: 10 dimes
Which group has the most/least dollars
Is one groups money more diluted than the others?
Now with one Bitcoin...
Group A: (4) .25 bitcoin
Group B: (20) .05 bitcoin
Group C: (10) .10 bitcoin
Which group has the most/least money (bitcoin)?
Is one groups money(bitcoin) more diluted than the others?
Answer: Groups A,B, and C have the same amount of money and bitcoin.
There is no dilution or inflation of the money supply.