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Jim Rogers: "Own Gold" Because "One Day, Markets Will Stop Playing This Game"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Jim Rogers hope-driven wish is that the politicians were smart enough at some point to say (to the central bankers), "we've got to stop this, this is going to be bad." He adds, on the incoming QEeen, "she’s not going to stop it, first of all she doesn't believe in stopping it, she thinks printing money is good." However, Rogers warns in this excellent interview with Birch Gold, "eventually the markets will just say, "We're not going to play this game anymore", and we'll have a serious collapse." The world is blinded by central bank liquidity, and as Rogers somewhat mockingly notes "if everybody says the sky is blue, I urge you to look out the window and see if it's blue because I have found that most people won't even bother to look out the window..." Rogers concludes, "everybody should own some precious metals as an insurance policy," because as he ominously warns, when 'it' collapses, "there will be big change.

 

 

 

Transcript (via Birch Gold Group) 

Rachel Mills, Birch Gold Group (BGG): This is Rachel Mills for Birch Gold, and I am very pleased to be joined today by Jim Rogers, legendary investor. Thank you so much Jim for joining me.

Jim Rogers: I am delighted to be here Rachel.

BGG: So today I wanted to talk a little about stock market highs and Quantitative Easing and inflation and a little bit of Federal Reserve and when is the taper is going to happen and currency wars. But there is one question that I don’t have to ask you, which you get asked a lot, I know, and that is what your secret to being so prescient in the marketplace?

“…if everybody says the sky is blue, I at least urge you to go and look out the window and see if it’s blue because I have found that most people won’t even bother to look out the window…”

JR: As far as I know, I’m not quite sure. I do know that I have learned over the years, always, when nearly everybody is thinking the same way that means somebody’s not thinking that means we got to start thinking about it and see if there’s not another way, another approach. Because if everybody says the sky is blue, I at least urge you to go and look out the window and see if it’s blue because I have found that most people won’t even bother to look out the window. If they see on the television or in the newspaper or something that everybody says the sky is blue, I at least urge them to look out the window. I find that most people don’t want to do their homework, that’s the first problem that many people have, is just doing simple homework.

“…no matter what we all know today, it’s not going to be true in 10 or 15 years…”

Second, I have learned that if everybody says the sky is blue and I go and look out the window and see that it is blue, I have also learned that, well wait a minute, if everybody knows the sky is blue, is that going to change? Now that everybody knows something, is it time to start thinking about “Well maybe tomorrow the sky will not be blue?” And again, most people say “Well everybody knows the sky is blue and that’s all we need to know.” No, it’s not all you need to know because another thing I have learned in my life is that no matter what we all know today, it’s not going to be true in 10 or 15 years. You pick any year in history and go back and then look to see what everybody thought was true in that year, 15 years later the world had changed enormously. Enormously. And yet in that particular year everybody was convinced that this is the way the world was. Pick 1900, 1930, 1950, any year you want to pick, and you will see that 15 years later, the world was totally, totally different from what everybody thought it was at that time.

So I have learned, for whatever reason, to know that change is coming, to know to think against the crowd, that the crowd is nearly always wrong and to try to think for myself. Now, I certainly make plenty of mistakes and have made plenty of mistakes in my life, but these are some of the things that I have learned, to try to think around the corner, try to think to the future if you want to be successful.

BGG: Yeah that’s right. And I read somewhere, tell me if this is true, that you were shorting real estate in 2006?

JR: Yes, yes, 2006, 2007, 2008. Yes, yes. I was short Fannie Mae, I was short all of the investment banks. I was short all the banks.

BGG: And I bet, were people rolling their eyes at you, were they laughing at you?

rogers 1252603c 300x187 Exclusive Interview with Jim Rogers: QE, currency wars, gold and inflation
Photo: www.telegraph.co.uk

JR: Oh very much so. I went on television quite a lot in those days saying it’s crazy. And I was on CNBC and I explained that I was short Fannie Mae and had been short Fannie Mae and Fannie Mae finally started to collapse. And the lady said to me, “Well it’s your fault that Fannie Mae is going down, it’s the short sellers that are causing problems with Fannie Mae.” And I explained to her, “Listen lady, if you really think that short sellers are making Fannie Mae collapse, you better get another job, because that’s not the way the world works.” Short sellers do not make Fannie Mae go from $70 to $0, I assure you, the only thing that can make that happen is serious fundamental problems. So yes, everybody knew I was nuts back in those days!

And then, they started blaming it on me and on the short sellers, all of the problems. Nobody likes to take responsibility for their mistakes, certainly not politicians, but it was clear that first they laugh at you, then they ridicule you and say it’s your fault and blame it on you. Eventually they all say, “Oh, well we knew that. We thought of it ourselves! We knew that Fannie Mae was a fraud.” But that’s a difficult and sometimes painful process.

BGG: Sounds like they were attributing more power to you than you actually have!

JR: It’d be wonderful if all I had to do was sell something short and it would go down. Unfortunately it usually goes up when I sell it short, my timing is usually pretty wrong.

BGG: I want to talk a little bit about currencies. It seems that all the major countries in the world are in this race to the bottom to devalue their currency relative to all the others to appease their export industry. Meanwhile, workers and savers are getting killed by the cost of living increases that this is causing. Do you have any observations or predictions about how this currency war is going to end, or can it continue somehow indefinitely? And who wins in a currency race to the bottom?

“Eventually the markets will just say, ‘We’re not going to play this game anymore’, and we’ll have a serious collapse.”

JR: Well, the first thing you need to know is that nobody ever wins a trade war, a currency war, which is just another kind of trade war. Everybody loses in the end, some may temporarily come out ahead but it’s temporary if nothing else. As you have pointed out, the cost of living of many people is going up, and it certainly is, my gosh, in Japan you have a currency that’s down 25% in a year. Well I assure you the Japanese are feeling that because everything that Japan imports has gone up fairly substantially AND even the things that they don’t import are up because the Japanese manufacturers and the Japanese producers can raise prices because they don’t have to worry about competing with the foreigners any more.

“We’ve got to stop this, this is going to be bad.”

So we’re all losing in currency wars. How long can it go on? Well, it can go on as long as politicians can continue to print money. The problem is, of course, eventually the markets will just say, “We’re not going to play this game anymore” and we’ll have a serious collapse. You and I can print money all day long, but at some point, you, I and everybody else is going to say, “Wait a minute, guys, this money is getting worse and worse and more and more worthless, so why don’t we stop playing this game?” I wish the politicians were smart enough at some point to say, “We’ve got to stop this, this is going to be bad.”

But unfortunately they never have, and probably never will. Mr. Bernanke is certainly not going to stop it, because he doesn’t want to go down in history as causing the collapse. Mrs. Yellen, when she comes in, she’s not going to stop it, first of all she doesn’t believe in stopping it, she thinks printing money is good. And she knows – I hope she’s smart enough to know – that if she stops, oh my gosh, it’s going to collapse. So she’s not going to stop. Nobody wants to go down as causing the collapse of the world. So I’m afraid this is going to go on until the market eventually says to them, “Okay, enough is enough,” we have a big collapse and then they’re all thrown out and we can start over.

“Eventually they will try to cut [QE], it will finally cause the collapse, at that point we will have a big change, because they will throw them out, whether it’s the politicians or the central bankers or whoever.”

BGG: Wow, that’s a painful scenario actually. Do you think there is any chance that Larry Summers would have stopped Quantitative Easing at all?

JR: Well, first of all it’s irrelevant because he’s not going to be Federal Reserve Chairman. Second, even if he started, you know, if somebody came in and said, “Okay, we’ve got a terrible problem, we’ve made horrible mistakes, now let’s change things.” And even if everybody in the world said, “You know, he’s right, we’ve got to do something” and they started, well, within a few months or a year or two, the pain would be pretty horrible and then everybody’s going to say, “Well we didn’t know the pain was going to be this bad, this is not what we signed up for.” And then the guy would either be thrown out or assassinated or who knows what!

BGG: Oh yeah, they would blame everything on whoever stopped the party.

JR: Yeah. At first they say “It’s fine, we want to do it”, but once the pain comes, the pain is going to get pretty serious. We had Mr. Volcker who came in, was told “stop the madness” back in the 1970s and he did. Well, Jimmy Carter got thrown out, because he was who had told him to do that, because the pain was so bad. Reagan of course thought it was wonderful, that pain was taking place because that got him elected. And it was help to clean up the problems. That’s what happens, you cause the pain and they throw you out.

BGG: So, you don’t think there is any way they’re gonna make good on their threats or promises to taper?

Rogers S 640x360 300x168 Exclusive Interview with Jim Rogers: QE, currency wars, gold and inflation
Photo: www.jimrogerblog.com

JR: They might, no I don’t. They might start, as I said, somewhere along the line they’re going to start doing it. But when the pain gets pretty serious, the lady or the person or whoever it is, is going to have real problems. Let’s say that in 2015, Yellen says, “We’ve got to stop this” and they start stopping it, well, at that point it’s going to be pretty serious for the parties in power and they’re going to get thrown out and the next guys will continue to taper because, as I’ve said, they got power because of the tapering and the problems, and they’ll clean up the problems.

But that’s the only way that you’re going to see it stop someday. The market is just going to say, “We don’t want to play.” That’s what happened with Jimmy Carter when he was in, everything was collapsing: bond yields were falling apart, you know, inflation was everywhere. “Thank you Mr. Carter, we don’t want to play this game anymore. It’s absurd.”

BGG: What tip-offs are you looking for for where the top of the market is and when would you start to see the collapse coming? Are there signs that you’re looking for?

JR: Well, I wish I was that smart or it was that easy. Back in the late 1970s, Mr. Volcker was told and he came in and said: “I am going to kill inflation because Mr. Carter has told me to.” And Mr. Carter was very clear that he had to stop inflation. I doubt if we’ll have that kind of scenario again but we would think, we would hope, that the Federal Reserve will announce, you know, that they publish their numbers so we can all see what’s happening. At the moment they are buying a trillion dollars a year – that’s a trillion with a “T” – of assets. Eventually we will see that they stop that if they do or slow it down.

What will probably happen is that they will slow it down at first to see what happens, and if things aren’t too bad at first – and they probably won’t be too bad at first – well what is likely to happen is they will slow it down, things will drop, and then they will rally and the Federal Reserve will say “Hey, this is not so bad, we can do it.” And they’ll cut some more. Things will drop again and then rally, because it will take a while for people to really believe how bad it can get, or will get. And so eventually they will try to cut [QE], it will finally cause the collapse, at that point we will have a big change, because they will throw them out, whether it’s the politicians or the central bankers or whoever … will continue because they like it, they got the job because of the collapse and then we’ll finally start over. But it may be really painful in the meantime.

“I’ve owned gold for many years, I’ve never sold any gold and I can’t imagine I ever will sell gold in my life because it is somewhat of an insurance policy.”

BGG: Sure. And when we do begin the process of starting over, whenever that happens, it will be really good to have something substantial, something real, something other than paper in your portfolio. And that’s what Birch Gold is trying to help people figuring out how to do. So, we’ve always said that precious metals are a type of insurance for the long term. I read in your interview in Barrons that you are holding gold right now and expecting maybe a buying opportunity to come up. Do you still feel that way?

JR: Yes, I’ve owned gold for many years, I’ve never sold any gold and I can’t imagine I ever will sell gold in my life because it is somewhat of an insurance policy. I hope that my daughters own my gold someday, I mean I owned gold, I’ve never sold any gold and if gold comes down and I expect it to go down, doesn’t mean it will, I’ll buy more. I’m certainly not going to sell.

“Everybody should own some precious metals as an insurance policy. So if they don’t have any right now, I would urge them to go buy something.”

BGG: Right. So what advice would you give someone who as of yet has no precious metals in their portfolio right now?

JR: Well, everybody should own some precious metals as an insurance policy. So if they don’t have any right now, I would urge them to go buy something, buy themselves a gold coin if nothing else, and see that it’s not going to hurt. It won’t hurt you to buy the first gold coin, the first silver coin, and from that you start accumulating as your own situation dictates.

First, do your homework, don’t buy gold because you heard me say it or even because you hear you say it. But if people don’t own they should start after they have done their homework. And then they will probably, if they do their homework, most people will then realize, “Oh my gosh, I better have insurance, and gold and silver may get me through serious problems ahead.”

BGG: Yeah. How do you feel about silver? Do you favor silver over gold? How do you feel?

JR: Well, silver is historically down 60% from its all-time highs, so yes, I would prefer silver at the moment because gold is down only what, 30 or 40% from its all-time highs.

BGG: Well, thank you so much for talking with me today. I think we will leave it there. Thank you so much, Jim Rogers.

JR: Thank you Rachel, anytime. Let’s do it again.

BGG: I would love to.

JR: Bye bye.

BGG : Bye, thank you!

 

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Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:38 | 4172133 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Dear Jim

It is already too late for politicians and bankers to 'do'  anything.

Get zee gold is good advice however, thanks.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:40 | 4172137 tsx500
tsx500's picture

>>>>> Jim Rogers True American Patriot

>>>>> Barack Hussein Obama True American Patriot

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:49 | 4172147 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

<-- Gold

<-- Bitcoin

 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:50 | 4172160 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Politicians=Central Bankers=Politicians=Central Bankers.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:12 | 4172189 TwoShortPlanks
Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:18 | 4172208 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Pure GOLD bar or TAEL buried where only you know is your friend.

BTC ( bitcoin.org ) will collapse, and let the gubmint have it, lite-coin or something else will replace it, something that is real P2P. That offers real anonymity, and is-was not created by founder's hoarding 50% of the base.

The problem is 99% of the crypto-currency world is ran by get-rich-quick assholes, ... look to the FSF (free sw) community, to come forward with a real solution to the political mess that BTC (bitcoin.org) has created for itself.

Only a egalitarian 'coin' ( high tech chain letter ), that is not hoarded out of the gate, and truly anonymous, and non-trackable by government will succeed. Also in a PURE p2p world there will be NO 'pools' or 'exchanges'. Any consolidation ( centralization ) of cryto-currency will only lead to fraud or gubmint theft/control.

NO fucking 'tollgates' in the real crypto-currency future, then will get rid of most of the crooks, and let people 'donate' if they like what they get.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:04 | 4172326 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Ha, you're kidding yourself if you ever think you could know a crypto-currency hasn't been hoarded by a few or an individual who create a few thousand fake internet identities. It's all about faith. Just like stocks, just like cash, just like gold. They are all worthless without faith.

Diversify or you will eventually lose. It's not that hard to grasp. And get FREE bitcoins from http://freebitco.in/?r=25727 instead of paying for them. Free are better!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:20 | 4172471 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

Only going to say this once:

Google, bitcoin hack. Spreading a bad 'Fork' is a pretty low-key trick and very easy to pull off should you have a large enough botnet to verify your set.

You can buy a Russian bot "seat" for about US$0.002/computer/hour. More than enough time to inject and run your own hash.

Ever wonder how despite it growing exponentially harder to mine coins, new coins are being dropped into the M1 of B$?

Enjoy.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:31 | 4172543 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I feel like a pirate every time I look at my gold! So awesome!

 

I mean, I USED to look at my gold before the accident involving seafaring vessels.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:40 | 4172550 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

I'm not sure. The head thieve in charge will be replaced by another head thieve, which will be replaced by another head thieve, and so on.

Never in their wildest dreams did the Jekyll criminals imagine the scam would last this long.

Fuck you Obama you corrupt piece of worthless shit.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:09 | 4172628 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

It's 'thief'.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:44 | 4172768 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Not true, I knew back in 2003 that by 2013 we would be running around crazy with wireless devices like a chicken with it's head cut off. Now making them work and legal in cars, and it's effect on saftey, was more insanity than I thought they could muster, but this is not for the good of society, but the need for greed.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:23 | 4172793 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Get zee gold is good advice however

 

Present.

 

You summoned me my league?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:34 | 4172691 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

GOLD Bitchez!

(no one had said it yet)

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:19 | 4172751 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

what's wrong with bitcoin?

People don't give cred where its due - did you know that the hoard from Tutankhamun's tomb had 3 USB stix with bitcoins. True. Significance not realised until 90 years later when bitcoin was reinvented.

only they could neva crack the passwords because keyboards back in ancient egypt had heiroglyphics not alphabet, DER!!

 

you can guess from this that when i say i'm long gold, im loooooooooooooooooooooooong gold

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:49 | 4172772 negative rates
negative rates's picture

It's still too early to gold day, and you will rue it's day trust me. Don't get me wrong, i'm a big fan of gold day, it can't get here soon enough for me. But the rest of you I aint so certain about.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 09:06 | 4172964 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Tippy canoe and tyler too.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 19:30 | 4182589 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Arrrr matey! These seas be a trial fer mere landlubbers!

http://youtu.be/v61sBTr7P-w

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:58 | 4172661 carlin401
carlin401's picture

It will be done, and its spelled out very well in Satoshi's orginal paper. I think all along he planned for mischief.

 

Injecting hash-blocks into the system would be very easy for someone with lots of computers, say a virus person who commanded 10's of 1,000's of bot computers aka STUTNEXT ( israel/usa )

 

The NSA could certainly inject given their cpu horsepower, and bandwidth net power.

 

With little guys getting these asic's, soon they'll be selling special purpose USB routers that can inject ten's of thousands of hash-blocks per second onto the net, creating instant wealth.

 

Short term I see RANSOM demands by those who know about how to enable the BTC kill switch.

 

Later, I see black market creation of BTC's, ... perhaps even later we'll see the FED pulling new BTC's out of its arse.

 

***

 

Also don't forget guys that 1,000's of MINERS have this incredible hardware that is now useless, that hardware can just as easily run new algorithms that inject hash-blocks rather than 'mine' them, and once all this start's happening, ... it will become crazy.

 

Never fear, for every problem, there is the US-MIL and NSA who will be willing to step in and HELP, I can see a new US federal service whose only job it protect BIT-COIN, funny is BITCOIN chinese or is it NSA/CIA?

 

The chinese seem to think its there's and the NSA wants it back,

 

Then the little guys have all this FPGA, ASIC-USB stuff laying around from the mining days, ...

 

Going to be great times.

PREDICTION: COld war between USA and china over bitcoin.

OBAMA will soon order to DRONE country's that demand BTC for their OIL!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:36 | 4172694 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

You sir, are a vile rat. Kudos.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:29 | 4172481 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Read the "SHAMIR" ( world authority on cryptology ) paper about how he looked through the bitcoin logs ( blocks ) and found that 90% of the blocks were held by just a few people masking them into minority shares. He clearly summarized as early as 2010 that the BITCOIN.ORG was a pyramidal-ponzi in the making.

Go read 'Satoshis' orginal paper, he makes it very clear that the software only works when a majority of users are honest, once say in USA (NSA) or china, russia (KGB) that some super computer direct's a billion blocks of garbage into the system, the system will fail, and everybodys money will belong gone, missing or lost in the NULL bucket.

It's all there, its simply too bad that majority of people don't have CS degree or equivalent in knowledge to read the original papers for themselves and understand the system.

***

Lastly, NOTE I write bitcoin.org( the bad guys BTC ), not to be confused with Satoshi's ( good guy ) orginal paper 'bitcoin'

Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
Satoshi Nakamoto
satoshin@gmx.com

www.bitcoin.org [ Now the bad guys, as they long ago co-opted satoshi's orginal work, and turned into a machine for theft and toll collection's not unlike GoldmanSacks or any ATM grabbing 10% ]

Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution.

***

Note p2p peer-to-peer means machine to machine individual, no fucking pools, no fucking exchange, and no fucking service fees (tolls).

Fuck the bitcoin.org wash dc mofu's.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 12:58 | 4173748 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I've already addressed your earlier post and I have read Shamir's findings when they were released.  He makes no such claim that Bitcoin is "a ponzi" or "a fraud" as you claim.  He merely points out some suspicious loop-back transactions early on in the blockchain.  And please point to how you feel bitcoin.org has altered the original protocol in any dramatic way?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:43 | 4172652 carlin401
carlin401's picture

I agree with you 100%

BTC,CASH-USD, stocks are all mirages,

 

But physical gold in your hand, and buried deep will look out after you forever, but so will ammo and guns properly stored in cosomoline.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 05:17 | 4172715 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Hoo needz goald, I hace teh bitcoinz! Hoo needz gunz, I hace teh Smith & Wessan and Rugerz stock!

Got it all figgerd out lulzerz.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:04 | 4172172 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Satohsi defined 'coin' as a high-tech 'chain letter' of signatures, where they could be probabilistically 'safe' by the fact that there would be a peer 2 peer network of 1,000's, and at any given time only a small number of 'crooks' contaminating the 'chain-letters' ( blocks in btc paralance ).

It's called Bit-Coin, because the 'chain-letter' are a stream of bits ( 0's and 1' ).

The problem is that P2P notion has been lost, and now the BTC's are hoarded on major exchanges where they can easily be contaminated, forged, or destroyed.

BTC as designed only works in a PURE P2P 100% open-shared environment of 'high tech chain-letters', with 1,000's or millions of users appending to the 'blocks' (coin signatures).

***

Another issue is the argument that BTC is based on 'math', no its not, its based on a fucking software program, that has been tweaked and hedged and fucked with by a political group calling itself "BITCOIN ORG". The orginal Satoshi design, is completely missing from the current incarnation of bitch know as 'bitcoin.org'. Of course the founders of bitcoin.org were sure to give themselves a major hoard of 'blocks' ( coins ) a long fucking time ago.

The 'mining' racket is all marketing, the real blocks were all given to insiders long ago, founding Satoshi ( secret ) is said to be sitting on over a billion dollars of BTC's ( current BTC capitalization >6B USD ).

***

The BTC movement has been proven, and in time a new face will come forward and deliver a PURE solution. The real fucking P2P community is already at arms against the fucking god-damn 'bitcoin.org', that is already politically butt fucking wash-dc.

Bitcoin.org has already hired a team of wash-dc lobbyists, and is already working with the likes of goldman-sachs, ...

Funny how BTC is worshipped by the very people said to be hated? But then like everything, BTC is ran by a 1%, and they want to work with Goldman-Sacks, cuz when your in the PONZI(mafia) biz you pay for the best protection in town(dc).

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:55 | 4172271 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I've gotta say, thats a pretty good round up on it.

I'll only add "Satoshi" is an unknowable person and certainly a pseudonym of the mind (sounds pretty mystical though, like a sage almost...lol) perfect if one of the inventors were a psychologist...and there is a patent on BitCoin related technology (#20100042841) and those holding it are Neal King, Vladimir Oksman and Charles Bry...along with advice (no doubt) from Jed McCaleb.

At least none of them are named Ponzi...lol.

/////////////

And I'll say again...the same as I've always said...its a conduit for money, not money itself. Introducing Ripple (I think) ladies & gentlemen, the latest and greatest...from a pretty smart guy, in his own way ;-)

"...Ripple uses a set of independent operators, called gateways, who handle the business of taking and delivering the fiat cash..."

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/09/jed_mccaleb/

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:21 | 4172473 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Plug-On

I completely agree

Ripple is great and so is lite-coin,

for those here that didn't get on these pyramid scams early, ... there is still time to learn and dip your noodle into the world of ripple and lite-coin,

We can only imagine at this point the 'investor' of BTC will be bailed out, now that it is +6 billion USD in capitalization, then the US gubmint will own it, and tell you that you must use it, but never fear the obama-care network specialists have already been hired by bitcoin.org for the transistion.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:43 | 4172607 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Wait a second....where the fuck is fonestar to explain this?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:25 | 4172639 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Fonestar has left the building, allegedly to SELL, I mean dump his BTC holdings, and his bladder and bowels.

The last 24 hours has been very hard for fonestar.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:30 | 4172482 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Wise Craka U B ...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:52 | 4172562 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Most of the ideas were already out there, you can see Satoshi's original paper, and he gives credit back to the 1980's.

What Satoshi's did is statistically prove that so long as the system remained peer-2-peer and there were >+500 'good guys' to bad-guy ratio, then the quality of info would be near 0.98% kosher.

Of course the current system is not P2P, its centralized by mt-gox ( the likes of pools and exchanges ),

**

Also what we know is that almost all the MSM including ZH is given 'free' bitcoin donations, which of course is a massive conflict of interest, such that now we have almost all the MSM loving BTC to death,

When the Russian or Chinese or Czech's start injecting millions of bad hash-blocks into the system, it will fail, most likely some smart guy will demand a ransom, and the bitcoin.org will PAY, ... eventually the US Government will step into to offer 'protection' for bitcoin.org.

Then it will become a death-penalty ( droned ) to inject bad hash-blocks into the system, the NSA will be looking for such, and all in the world will except this NEW mission by the NSA/US-MIL.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:02 | 4172780 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"What Satoshi's did is statistically prove that so long as the system remained peer-2-peer and there were >+500 'good guys' to bad-guy ratio, then the quality of info would be near 0.98% kosher.

Of course the current system is not P2P, its centralized by mt-gox ( the likes of pools and exchanges ),"

And I believe I read in my link that Jed McCaleb sold Mt.Gox to whoever/whatever owns it now...I'll assume the transaction netted him something other than, BitCoin.

But hey, a surfer boy goes through a lot of board wax ;-)

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:14 | 4172350 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Hmmm...I guess gold has never been hoarded by anyone when prices were historically low. </ultra-sarcasm>

</gold>

<DUST>

<SPXL>

<BONDS>

</DUST>

</SPXL>

 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:47 | 4172431 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Cheerleader much? You regurgitate the same hollow shit daily, failing to see what a scam there is to be found such as your precious BTC.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:29 | 4172798 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Hey, the guy wants to go to the devil.....step back and let him do it.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:21 | 4172474 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

Fuck Carlin, should have pushed my comment into your nested thread. Nailed it.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:03 | 4172623 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Don't fuck me, send me your coin.

LWKtYLFWp9aMBoWMhXznFzGyXFmm4LXh1c

***

I'm just a computer scientist, and I have spent my entire life following cryptology, so I find this interesting, I play on ZH from time to time, and I find all that is said here about BTC to be 100% bullshit, so in the last few days I have posted some truth about the issue, and you BTC promoters take offense to truth? For what?

1.) BTC is not anonymous
2.) BTC is not safe
3.) BTC is not egalitarian
4.) BTC is NOT your friend
5.) BTC mining is fraud to make people 'think' it came from somewhere.
6.) BTC has the smell of the NSA
7.) BTC endorses the TOLL-BOOTH model, fuck toll booths

Lite-Coin is your friend and ripple, ...

Everybody in the tech world hates bitcoin.org cuz they sold out to the WASH-DC establishment. Period.

ONLY the MSM now supports BTC, cuz BTC is dumping free coin on their door-steps for favorable 'urinalism' ( pee-pee talk for journalism )

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:14 | 4172790 Paveway IV
Paveway IV's picture

BTC, Lite-Coin and Ripple all have to travel across the tapped and recorded Internet gateways.

I know in some fantasy world this can all happen P2P, but it won't and never will, aside from some fringe activity. For any of them to be of practical use, they're going to have to send packets through the backbone IXs. Encryption? Yeah, that means they have to beat your recorded traffic with a bigger computer to shake out some data.

The NSA loves *all* of them. Every one will allow them more capability to track financial activity and adds ironclad proof that your fiat was exchanged with someone else the government may not like.

And then there's the ultmate false flag where they have to hit the kill switch on the internet because of some supposed super-virus that breakes the gateways or infects ATMs or some nonsense like that.

Hint: it will happen on a Friday afternoon, they'll have to shut down everything over the weekend and they'll have the internet and ATMs up and working by Monday - they promise.

When you hear that, you have until 4 A.M. Monday morning (max) to make it to Canada or Mexico. Martial law after that.

Your bitcoins won't save you. Your phyz won't save you. You are not one of the ones they're going to save.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 19:02 | 4182531 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

indeed. That's why a GPG signed & encrypted message would do much better.
I need only vouch as a trusted person to whoever trusts me for ANY kind of tangible items of value to trade.
Nothing about the message indicates it is financial. It's up to me to try to use networks which don't have traffic analysis snooping but this is not important most of the time. after all, where I was is not where I will be & nothing about the time / path indicates the future paths I will travel that pertain to the message.

Hint: the internet kill switch is a bomb. It's not a device, it's not a code or password, it's an actual tangible thing that actually cuts the networks at the biggest commercial hubs.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:44 | 4172499 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Are you alleging early adopters or insiders may have hoarded a longer (and correct) proof-of-work on the blockchain than the rest of the network?  I have wondered about the possibilities of this and how early secret hoarding could effect the chain?  Or if it would even matter seeing as how this chain would be vastly outnumbered by the other nodes on the network?

I am interested in listening if you can cite any sources.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:45 | 4172554 carlin401
carlin401's picture

'SHAMIR' the god father of encryption, wrote a paper in 2010 about BITCOIN, he found that 90% of the blocks were all traded by the same 'fake' handles.

He also found that 10% of the users, accounted for 90% of the transactions, and yes the 'founders' are sitting on billions of USD's worth of early shares.

It's a known fact that Satoshi's early hold of BTC is now worth more than $1Billion USD.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:52 | 4172560 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Okay, I am familiar with Shamir of RSA fame... and I am familiar with the idea that there exist these early adopters (dark pools) sitting on large amounts of BTC.  But would it be in their best interest to liquidate their positions?  Isn't it more likely that they simply realized what their creation was and were simply positioning themselves accordingly?

FYI I do agree that the genesis blocks of a blockchain-based p2p currency should be done out in the open to inspire more confidence.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:45 | 4172608 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Also, Shamir does not come out and say they are "fake" handles nor does he say that it is an attempt to conceal the original identity.  He only goes so far as to say it may indicate someone was attempting to hide their identity.  It's just as conceivable that they were playing around on the network back in the early days (as many engineers do), that he was distributing some bitcoin to friends and family (and wanted to protect them) or he was indeed attempting to conceal the original address but that doesn't necessarily infer his intent was malicious.   

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:57 | 4172619 carlin401
carlin401's picture

SHAMIR explicitly says that BITCOIN is an orchestrated fraud by a very small group of insiders.

Enough said. http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf

The Bitcoin scheme is a rare example of a large scale global
payment system in which all the transactions are publicly accessible (but
in an anonymous way). We downloaded the full history of this scheme,
and analyzed many statistical properties of its associated transaction
graph. In this paper we answer for the rst time a variety of interest-
ing questions about the typical behavior of users, how they acquire and
how they spend their bitcoins, the balance of bitcoins they keep in their
accounts, and how they move bitcoins between their various accounts in
order to better protect their privacy. In addition, we isolated all the large
transactions in the system, and discovered that almost all of them are
closely related to a single large transaction that took place in November
2010, even though the associated users apparently tried to hide this fact
with many strange looking long chains and fork-merge structures in the
transaction graph

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:44 | 4172769 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

i must admit at this point in the conversation that i am so, sooo impressed and dazzled by the complexity and intrigue of creating, using and safeguarding bitcoin!

 

...btw, I have no faith in using something so complex to safeguard my wealth. The last thing i need in my life is another fucking password. or ten.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 10:45 | 4173231 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm sorry, but for the sake of intellectual honesty it's important that you not put words in other people's mouth (especially someone of Shamir's stature).  He never uses the word "fraud", he uses the word "scheme" and I don't necessarily believe he used that in the negative sense of the word.

Look, if Satoshi the person (or Satoshi the group) still controls 500,000 BTC thats a great amount, around 1/24 of the total coins mined so far.  But put that in perspective to our current fiat masters..... we owe them all the currency in existence plus interest.  I'd say that make's Satoshi's hoarding still look rather egalitarian by contrast wouldn't you?

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:56 | 4172173 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

ingenious, zhead.

you gotta have the patience of a saint and the instinct to save above the desire to acquire.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:06 | 4172188 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Beginning Bitcoiner Bearing is exploring BTC.

But, holds his wealth in gold.  + $55.000

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:29 | 4172540 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Nickels like Kyle Bass.

Samsung paid those slimeballs at Apple - $1 billion in nickels for their lawsuit.  LOL!  F  U Apple!

http://thebladebrownshow.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/lawsuit-paid-in-full-s...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:53 | 4172663 Jadr
Jadr's picture

While that would be hilarious, it actually did not happen.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:53 | 4172681 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Lovely sentiment, but look that one up Freddie.  It would take every surviving nickel stamped since Regan retired.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 08:11 | 4172830 Martel
Martel's picture

Somebody said this gold vs. bitcoin is a generational thing. If you're 40+, gold it is. If younger, perhaps bitcoin. I would be very, very surprised if Jim Rogers ever bought bitcoin. In fact, it could be a contrarian indicator.

I own both. I hope gold will some day be re-lifted to the historical importance it once had. I'm not holding my breath, though. Gold bugs have basically all Western governments, central banks and investment banks against them. Meanwile, bitcoin is bringing me profits - lots of profits. Sure, it could still end up badly. Still, bitcoin has the potential to develop into a giant Financial Black hole, where many other asset classes get sucked in, never to reappear. A Black Hole in a good sense of the word.

http://i.imgur.com/dJZGQ5K.png

 

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 18:41 | 4182479 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

So far I refuse to touch btc & I'm under 40. It's extremely vulnerable to network take-over, computer/device snooping & de-anonymizing to trace back transactions and of course the big one, large grid-down / total grid-down situations which I think are likely.

I'd happily use btc if it was UNDER 2% volatility per year before the grid goes down OR if it could be shown to be IMMUNE from the grid going down.

So... any takers?

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:50 | 4172155 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Too easy tsx500...  :)

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:53 | 4172140 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

when Jim is doing these interviews while he is doing the laundry you can just tell he is mailing it in.

I feel terrible for the guy who his dog attacked at 13:45 mins in. We have all been there. On the conference call from "the office" when your dog attacks someone during the call....

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:29 | 4172252 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

that's pretty funny.  the audio on these cellphone interviews just keeps getting worse.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:37 | 4172266 msmith9962
msmith9962's picture

I've seen a few where he's on his stationary bike with the kids on the trampoline in the back.  Waiting for one where he's on the shitter.  His life must be awesome.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:09 | 4172575 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

Fonz - you know, I had to google fonzanoon to understand your stage name...but it all makes sense now.

Glad to chat off-line sometime...I'm pretty sure I couldn't misunderstand things anymore than I already do...just don't expect I'll have a lot to add and I'm hoping you are way ahead of me in making sense of this game we're all playing

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:04 | 4172624 Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Well, I'll be darned.  I always wondered about Fonz's name, but I never thought to google it.  I've never heard of that word before!  LOL.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:47 | 4172143 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Why in the fucking hell is this OP here?

When's it from 1970's Jimmy Rogers "BUY GOLD",

Slow day on the news?

***

BUY GOLD 'COIN',... pay a premium, so that we get a commission,...

Who sell's 'gold coins'? Who stands to profit from this relentless message on ZH?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:36 | 4172695 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Not the FED!

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:48 | 4172152 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Interesting, Jimmy makes no mention of Agriculture at all during this interview, when he had been pounding the table about it over the past few years as a way to hedge inflation mainly. With a record corn crop amongst others, one may think buying at the lows of the market is not a bad thing...

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:01 | 4172177 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Today 'jimmy' is being interviewed by a guy who sells 'gold coins', tomorrow jimmy will be interviewed by a farmer.

I hear on friday jimmy will be interviewed by a guy who sells porn ( dirk diggler 1970's ), .. you can only guess on friday where jimmy will tell you to put your money.

Then you have to ask, ... why do these people ask him to be interviewed?

Funny the guy is already rich, he must have a need for the fucking camera?

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:44 | 4172423 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 Maybe he's got a Mother Theresa complex.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:14 | 4172468 carlin401
carlin401's picture

I love him too, I have bought all his books and have them shipped to me by amazon.

But his peat&repeat interviews are nauseating.

He's the father we all wish we had.

A great guy for adventure, both motorcycle and auto,... and speaks the truth.

It's the MSM spin, and these OP headlines that distort the message, and the picking and choosing of his quotes to push something like 'gold coin'.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:57 | 4172774 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

same motivation as the majority of the oligarchy: its not so much about greed - furthering one's wealth - its more about the frantic pace you need to keep to MAINTAIN your financial empire

this is the thing about a competitive capitalist system a lot of people here don't get. Gotta keep going or be subject to a takeover bid or lose position to a more efficient competitor etc

case in point, of course iraq was invaded for gold - but not to increase amercia's power, but to prevent america losing a significant portion of its power. syria too, if obama has the guts - but he doesnt, and America's star will wane further

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 18:33 | 4182459 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

a fight with syria is merely a proxy for war with Russia. America can't win that war.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:07 | 4172185 deflator
deflator's picture

Jim's a smart guy and proves you can teach an old dog new tricks. CB's ain't gonna let you make money on anything that competes with fiat. As long as various central banks and governments are coordinated, the status quo will remain intact. 

 There are reasons why this is not sustainable, human nature for one.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:54 | 4172306 uncle.bigs
uncle.bigs's picture

Ag is too much work.  It' much easier to buy some gold coins and let Shalom Bernanke and Beany Cap Yellin do the work for you.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:52 | 4172163 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

copy paste

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 21:55 | 4172171 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture
“We’ve got to stop this, this is going to be bad.”

http://freethoughtblogs.com/rodda/files/2011/08/droopy.jpg

 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:04 | 4172187 Carl Popper
Carl Popper's picture

Even though Tacitus and other Roman citizens dated the decline of Rome at around 197 CE it still took several centuries to fall apart comPletely even with horrendous hyperinflation, civil wars, and barbarian invasions.

Put 15 percent of your net worth in precious metals if you worry about teotwawki. Pass it on to your descendants. It will happen eventually. No civilization lasts forever.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:16 | 4172193 carlin401
carlin401's picture

But Rogers says to buy "gold coin" ( jewelry gold ),

So you do so and pay 10-50% premium, and then when you want real money ( buy food ), your gold is measured by wieght, and you lose that premium,

If we're really talking about 'gold', then why pay a middle man a fucking premium? Unless that is your job to huck & jive others to pay a premium, so ad dollars from that premium trickle down.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 18:21 | 4182435 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

"coin" and "jewelry" are opposites.
Gold coin is .9999 fine. Jewelry is often no more than a 50% mix of gold & silver, or perhaps even 10k gold so 41.67% purity. Not coins.

Premium paid on a coin is repaid later. The premium is for the lack of need for extreme testing as with bars because the coins are harder to fake. The premium is NEVER lost.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:33 | 4172258 TheUnwisestWizard
TheUnwisestWizard's picture

Many say we the US are in the 4th epoc of Pax Romana.  We declared BK in 1913 right?  Before that Lincoln re-capitalized the US with central banker money to decimate the south with state of the art heavy artillary and metal hulled war ships (so much cool civ tech)... the south was also armed but not as much just enough to make the war interesting and kill off a lot of would be entrepreneur/useless eaters.

 

The new deal in 1945 and even beore that put all of our collective info SSN etc into a database to be sold on the open market.  Each one of us is a tax roll for a wealthy 1% of the world population.  Think of the US as a big Roman farm feeding the corporation in London owned by the big families that carved up Rome and Europe over the last 1300 years... oh yeah and the emirtes (imams and what not) and the chinese have gotten their share of it.

 

Rome is still in decline but every generation we get a new slab of plebes to do the bidding of the elites and their control grip gets tighter which allows their madness to continue.

 

In 100 years, we will be paying for the air we breathe - think idiocracy in 1000 years if we can make it that far.

 

I have my doubts about the moon landing, 9/11 pearl harbor and everything else we stand for.  IT's a farce and even the founding fathers knew it - that is why they put horus and the all seeing eye - they realized they are being 'allowed' to create this nation in order to appease the belligerant cattle.  Belligerance is the only way to get ones rights anyways though how one is belligerant is key.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:45 | 4172425 gtb
gtb's picture

I share your doubts...

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:48 | 4172433 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 I have my doubts about a lot of things , not the least of which is the ability of the average man to think straight.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:14 | 4172791 saveandsound
saveandsound's picture

concerning the moon landing: get a good telescope and have a look at the leftovers...

 

 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:14 | 4172212 rustymason
rustymason's picture

I guess it can just go on this way  f o r e v e r   . . .

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:31 | 4172244 deflator
deflator's picture

"eventually the markets will just say, "We're not going to play this game anymore", 

 With Central banks and Governments being the markets, can someone please raise their hand and say why any central bank and or government would not want to play anymore?

 me, me, me, choose me...

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:47 | 4172430 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 I think what he meant was, bitcoins are going to zero.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:27 | 4172245 TheUnwisestWizard
TheUnwisestWizard's picture

Everyone should learn something from Rogers - his point is that he never sells Gold up or down - he watches it fluctuate and tries to buy more when it's down and less when it's up but he is always buying because as it's rising, you never know when it will go parabolic because it cannot be hoarded or the gov't of the world need to notch it up to the next level because supply is scarce.

 

Gold is an investment in reality - when other investments may seem to yield more in the short term, when the world needs to finance wars and big things happen, gold is backing it 100% of the time.  faith in people is key but gold is the 5-25% backer to any serious nationstate interested in growing so the demand for gold will only increase over time and the price may be suppressed for a short amount of time but not for long.

 

There are good deals too right now on gold if you are willing to do your research and grind a bit.  Buying Gold and Silver are great long term investments.  A good part of your long term porfolio - BtC may be $10,000 next week but what will it be worth in a year.  If Gold drops down to $300 per ounce and you haven't spent all your money on it, will you be buying gold coins?  I know I will all the way down - would you dot he same with BtC?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:12 | 4172466 carlin401
carlin401's picture

GOLD is an insurance policy, bought once for life, with no recurring yearly premiums.

Keeping 5% of net wealth well hidden in real physical gold in your control, has been known to be an insurance against catastrophic loss for millenniums, ... but nobody get's rich, and its hardly an 'investment'.

99% of all great wealth in human history was made in real estate, but over the long term because of war, that land is never held, but during a 'lifetime', no fucking problem.

Have your 5% in gold and forget about it,... and never talk about it to anyone.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 18:15 | 4182419 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Rogers many times has said he's not buying gold as it's up too much for him & not selling it because he never sells it.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:30 | 4172249 El Tuco
El Tuco's picture
Chinese bitcoin exchange vanishes along with $4.1m in bitcoins

 

http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=15932

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 22:49 | 4172290 william114085
william114085's picture

I went home and listened to Jimmie Rogers in my lunch break

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:07 | 4172522 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

What u want? A cookie?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 05:10 | 4172712 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Are you on Twitter..?

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:42 | 4172414 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 How much did they pay rogers to pimp the gold they can't sell?

 

 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:46 | 4172428 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 Ya gotta love it, eventually more people will be LOSING money in Gold and Bitcoins than there are those making it, but they will all be happy. Smiling. Yes.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:21 | 4172753 carlin401
carlin401's picture

nobody will lose their physical gold if properly buried,

everybody that bought BTC will lose all

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:49 | 4172436 jomama
jomama's picture

it really grinds my gears that bitchcoin is doing what gold and silver should be doing.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:39 | 4172547 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

CRASHING?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:39 | 4172697 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Bitcoin is intangible and infinitely fungible; two things that Gold and Silver aren't.

Oh, Gold and Silver don't need a plug or an ISP either.

Patience, TPTB will kill Bitcoin 'ere long.

Sad, but true.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:20 | 4172752 carlin401
carlin401's picture

the system loves BTC never been an easier way for the system to find your money, ... once you go BTC then your info goes public,

amazing how people are willing to first turn over the freedom, to the gubmint, and now they're hard earned savings,..

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 13:59 | 4173989 Thisson
Thisson's picture

Gold is indeed infitely fungible (smallest unit is 1 atom).  Bitcoin is not (smallest unit is a satoshi).

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 23:55 | 4172440 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

Ag, Au, CNY, NOK, Liquor, Nickels, Ammo, Fuel, Land,  Nutrition, H2O, Family, Security, Health.....random order....

Nearly anything other than USD.

Cheers!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:09 | 4172463 carlin401
carlin401's picture

SGD, CHF, NOK, .. there are only 3 or 4 left with AAA in the world.

SGD is nice AAA, and follows CNY nicely,

HKD is nice tied to the USD, and should USD collapse, you instantly own CNY,

***

Here is an important thing about BTC, should it collapse, what is the fallback? Nothing.

I remember when Germany weft DM to EURO, they gave us depositors years to chose and wait, ... many a choice.

When the BTC exchanges go belly up, even the DNS will be gone.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:12 | 4172467 MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

Noted and Appreciated!

Thank you!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:34 | 4172489 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Yep, and if you watch the transaction rate per hour, and if you can best your injection of shit by 250 to 1, your odds of fucking the system is very high,

Imagine what the fucking NSA could do?

Imagine 1,000's of russian bot seat's?

There simply is not that many 'real' transactions happening,... once the majority of hash-blocks are garbage and newest floating the system, then the system will accept them as kosher. Then its GAME-OVER.

I think the entire system will be put on RANSOM at some point. IMHO.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:37 | 4172490 carlin401
carlin401's picture

del

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 00:50 | 4172506 doMiKY
doMiKY's picture

most current financial reporting is based on a foundation of capitalist economics.  there is not a capitalist economy left on the planet.  we need reporting from "journalists" familiar with managed economies.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:54 | 4172615 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Most 'reporters' these days get free BIT-COIN donations, so now its in everyone's "interest" to say good things about the anointed virtual money.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:04 | 4172517 Ass to Mouth
Ass to Mouth's picture

Jim's probably beating off while doing this interview, "Oh, Rachel, you f'n Slob!!!"

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:07 | 4172521 q99x2
q99x2's picture

After it collapses do we get to hang all the people that bought the gold and artworks before the collapse?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 01:40 | 4172548 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 They will hang themselves when a loaf of rye costs 10 ounces of their precious gold (or 10,000 bitcoins)

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 17:46 | 4182359 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

THE GOING RATE in Zimbabwe was 0.1 grams of gold for 1 loaf of bread.
I can't see how that would be any different in other parts of the world, considering how bad that place is.

So that's 311 loaves of bread from one ounce of .9999 fine gold.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:04 | 4172573 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Cancel Harvard. I'm headed back to UCLA.

BitDust

Last price:$473.92020

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:51 | 4172606 carlin401
carlin401's picture

LiteCoin is holding nicely at $7, ...

***

So that means that Capitalization went from $6+ billion USD to about $3 Billion in a few hours,

Me think Satoshi sold a lot at the peak,

^ Ron Dorit; Adi Shamir (2012). "Quantitative Analysis of the Full Bitcoin Transaction Graph". Cryptology ePrint Archive. p. 17. Retrieved 18 October 2012.

***

Follow this paper, to see how you too can generate a 'transaction graph' and learn who and where, and why dumped their BTC's ... :)

Last time Shamir ran the graph he found that 90% transaction by 5% of the users, and that 90% of the Bit coins were held by a few controlling 1,000's of fake users.

***

Shamir is the Albert Einstein of Cryptology in the world today.

"BITCOIN IS A FRAUD... WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED"???

The Bitcoin scheme is a rare example of a large scale global
payment system in which all the transactions are publicly accessible (but
in an anonymous way). We downloaded the full history of this scheme,
and analyzed many statistical properties of its associated transaction
graph. In this paper we answer for the rst time a variety of interest-
ing questions about the typical behavior of users, how they acquire and
how they spend their bitcoins, the balance of bitcoins they keep in their
accounts, and how they move bitcoins between their various accounts in
order to better protect their privacy. In addition, we isolated all the large
transactions in the system, and discovered that almost all of them are
closely related to a single large transaction that took place in November
2010, even though the associated users apparently tried to hide this fact
with many strange looking long chains and fork-merge structures in the
transaction graph

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:07 | 4172741 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

BTC is interesting, but as an older guy, I prefer to hold fizzical assets.

Keep Stackin'

Keep Packin'

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:17 | 4172749 carlin401
carlin401's picture

BTC reminds me of the old joke about not spending more than your willing to lose,

and be certain if you buy BTC you will lose your money,

for some strange reason this shit has attracted the worst fucking mofu's on the planet,

A major transfer of wealth of young to old mafia types it is ...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 02:56 | 4172617 ItsDanger
ItsDanger's picture

Yeah, all his intereviews are getting tiresome.  What will trigger it?  How high does the debt need to go?  He has already bailed on the US, doesnt he live in Singapore or somewhere?  Why doesnt he move back and try fix things himself?  All of these guys with their holier than thou attitudes.  Would be refreshing to someone like him get more involved in promoting better policy.  A pipe dream of course.  These people never do.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:17 | 4172634 carlin401
carlin401's picture

It's deeper than that, yes he's in Singapore, and he's a midwest far boy.

He's written many a book on how to raise children, and now he say's this is the century of China, so he's close to their to raise his children.

He left the USA cuz they stole $300Million from his account long ago, pretty fucking good reason to leave the USA? NO?

Where does this holier than thou idea the that the USA is worth fighting for come from? There is NOTHING left in the USA to steal, ... and only parasites remain.

No caring father wants to see his children raised in hell.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 05:08 | 4172711 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

Not to be petty carlin... but Jimmy is from Alabama. His book on raising children is is 3rd book. Read "Investment Biker" to get a good idea of how he studies markets.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:15 | 4172745 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Alabambi, now how in the fucking hell is that not mid?

perhaps I should have said 'mid east'

but in my my mine its still middle america, not dc, and not california

mid east has diff connotation, not to be used

yah yah I have all his books, ... the point is the guy is a family guy looking out for his family, and he feels that far from the USA is safe, ... a view I share

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 17:41 | 4182346 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

the only fix is civil war.
Some may try it. The old best not bother.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:14 | 4172629 carlin401
carlin401's picture

BITCOIN COLD WAR with CHINA is the USA Nuts?

Bitcoin infrastructure matures, it has the potential to be used as a currency in commodity markets and other areas of trade with lightning quickness, from gold to wheat to cotton and, yes, oil.

In Africa, this could mean the destruction of weak country currencies, large scale consumer adoption via mobile payments, and a new era for Chinese financial supremacy in Africa at large. For America, oil contracts from non-OPEC countries denominated in Bitcoin would pose significant threats.

That's why next year will be key for the future of Bitcoin. Ironically, it is the United States, the "free market" financial heavyweight in the world, that finds itself moving slowly to figure out how to adopt Bitcoin. Meanwhile, China is proving to be a leading player in this 21st century currency.

If the U.S. winds up over-regulating Bitcoin, the existing power structure in finance could be put at risk. The message to Congress is clear. Bitcoin is here to stay and lawmakers would do well to make sure that the U.S. does not get left behind in this brave, new digital currency world. The race is on, and Bitcoin doesn't care about national borders.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 17:39 | 4182343 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

BITCOIN does care about grids.
Across most of Africa there's no grid to use them at all.
Even yesterday I saw 2 people trying to do an email transfer of fiat bank funds phone to phone. NO SIGNAL.
Couldn't do it.
Bitcoin can't either.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:22 | 4172636 Czar of Defenes...
Czar of Defenestration's picture

I'm new to this site and certainly not the most knowlegeable here.

I'd appreciate some (serious) feedback (save the rest for Saturday, guys) on what I see as a contradiction:

On one hand, Rogers - and many others - say gold is like an "insurance policy."

On the other hand, these same people say, "I'll never sell it."

WELL: if it IS like an insurance policy, then you DO apply it when there is a [fire, car accident, medical emergency,etc.].

SO...at that "crisis" period, one DOES sell (at least some of) it to get through the rough times, in the same manner one would call the insurance company for assistance with the bills, yes?

YOUR CLARIFICATION is appreciated.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:31 | 4172645 carlin401
carlin401's picture

There are lies and BIG lies,

Insurance is a racket, the model is to collect premiums and deny claims,

Long ago 'insurance' meant something, long before BERKSHIRE (buffet) destroyed the biz model, and created the modern graft model.

***

The insurance model requires montly, and or yearly premiums.

***

The 'gold insurance' model is 1,000's of years old and universally embraced by asians from the Turkey to Japan.

That everyone have 5% of his 'wealth' in gold, as an insurance, e.g. war, famine, ... TSHTF

***

But comparing the modern 'insurance' racket auto/medical/life/... to GOLD is wrong.

Insurance is just what it means 'safety', there is NO fucking safety in giving a corporation a monthly premium for medical insurance, when their plan is your deductible is more than your net worth.

***

I hope this helps.

When Rogers talks about 'insurance' he's talking OLD-SCHOOL,

When a modern USA company talks about insurance, they're talking a about US government sponsored FRAUD.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:49 | 4172657 Czar of Defenes...
Czar of Defenestration's picture

Thank you, carlin401.  Pardon, if I'm being a little thick, but please confirm if I understand you correctly:

When you write about the "Old School" model, that everyone "have 5% of his 'wealth' in gold, as an insurance, e.g. war, famine, ... TSHTF"

you are saying that the function of gold under such "crisis" circumstances is indeed to use/sell it for necessities in life...

...and that his "I'll never sell it" remark was more the notion of passing that safety net on to his kids, should he not need to deplete it.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:01 | 4172666 carlin401
carlin401's picture

No you don't spend it during the 'war' as an ounce of gold will be one loaf of bread.

You keep until after the war, and the ounce of gold buy's you the entire village.

Got it?

 

***

 

Lastly, smart men leave a country before the war begins, they bury their gold, and they wait in a nice place like paris, until the civil war is over, then go back and buy all with their gold. Guys that stick around during the 'war' generally see their wife and children raped and murdered, and themselves hog-tied and fucked in the ass.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 05:21 | 4172667 Czar of Defenes...
Czar of Defenestration's picture

Gotcha.  Thanks.

In other words:

BUY THE FUCKING (DIP) VILLAGE

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 17:21 | 4182284 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

#1 gold is insurance without expiry that can be inherited in secret
#2 "selling" in normal context now means "for paper"

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:03 | 4172738 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

simply think the subject through with some common sense.

Carry on.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 03:51 | 4172662 Debugas
Debugas's picture

at some point owners of resources will start demanding something of value instead of empty promises

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:10 | 4172672 Miss anthrope
Miss anthrope's picture

I totally missed it!  Please explain to me what is "MOAR"

thanks!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:13 | 4172789 Debugas
Debugas's picture

it is a cry for MORE

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:15 | 4172678 zipit
zipit's picture

RE: "I’ve owned gold for many years, I’ve never sold any gold and I can’t imagine I ever will sell gold in my life because it is somewhat of an insurance policy.": What will happen when all these old-timer gold bugs die?  Will their heirs sell the gold?  And then buy what, 21st century gold, digital gold, Bitcoin?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:38 | 4172766 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

You have to wait for all the young Indian brides to die off first.  ie. never

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:25 | 4172685 devo
devo's picture

Gold outlook is bleak.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:02 | 4172777 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Why are you here then?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:54 | 4172813 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

for the next several months? or next several years?

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 17:16 | 4182266 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

why? Price still too high to get any?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 04:50 | 4172706 Irene
Irene's picture

Most Americans are stupid when it comes to gold.  Not really their fault.  Gold was "disappeared" out of the US economy back under FDR, we didn't have any wars on the US mainland in the 20th century, the $US was king for the last century (even when we went off the gold standard), so the practical knowledge of how gold reigns in corrupt politicos and operates as insurance, etc.  in an uncertain world is no longer in our DNA.

But look at Asia, MENA, SA, Russia, and other areas of the world where life hasn't been so stable.  They still retain that knowledge because it's something they live with, i.e., war, famine, inflation, political uncertainty, and have for centuries.  It's a reality to them but not to us.  We'll have to learn this again here in the USA.  Probably sooner rather than later.

Anybody who thinks that gold is going to go to $300 or that its outlook is bleak needs to get out into the world a bit more.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 05:38 | 4172729 Debugas
Debugas's picture

you are right about people living in countries with high inflation rates tend to buy gold and people in countries that enjoyed low inflation do not understand the need for gold

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 09:19 | 4172988 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

When we need it, we will take it. Hide it up the anus all you want. Our strong pulse magnet will rip your innards as the gold exits your belly.

Get it? Got it? Good.

The rightful owner of all gold in this world is the American citizens. We have loaned our gold to the world but soon we will repatriate all of it.

Over.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 17:15 | 4182257 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

gold's not magnetic.
All good conducting metals put in motion in a magnetic field can have a magnetic flux but you'd have to move that field around quite a lot.
Just a strong stationary magnet won't do it.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:22 | 4172795 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

i often wonder how much the moral compass of america would have maintained its accuracy had the tanks of WW2 somehow blitzed across mainland USA

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:54 | 4172811 rationaldemocracy
rationaldemocracy's picture

Well maybe we are just a lucky and exceptional country? When have we ever had a need for gold? at all times of the American history there has never been a need for gold..maybe because we have advanced beyond that stage? 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:01 | 4172735 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Bitches!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 06:49 | 4172771 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture


Gold: PBOC to ‘Basically’ End Normal Yuan Intervention, Zhou Says 


  Now we have a better insight into the recent record level Gold buying by China. Head of PBOC talks about currency flexibility and acceleration of yuan convertibility. All announced reforms target to jump start the new phase of Chinese economic growth with Internal Consumption becoming the main driver. In this situation stronger Yuan means stronger purchasing power in China, less US Treasuries buying (which is happening already) and higher commodity prices in US Dollar terms. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/gold-pboc-to-basically-end-normal-yu...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:01 | 4172778 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

STOP with the fucking bow ties! Only then will you have credibility!

Over.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:02 | 4172779 Tabarnaque
Tabarnaque's picture
This is surreal! The system is completely out of control and on the verge of a breakdown. This can not last much longer. No wonder that WMT's shares are at an all time high... Before the correction comes in!   Shame on every single American still shopping at Wal-Mart. Ooops, I ment China-Mart!   Wal-Mart holds food drive for its own employees http://money.msn.com/investing/post--wal-mart-holds-food-drive-for-its-own-employees   http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-wal-mart-employees-thanksgiving-food-drive-20131119,0,3982468.story#axzz2lBM5YpiK  
Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:08 | 4172783 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Bitcoin has dived below $400 today

 Time is to go for Gold and for the real one this time - Bitcoin "Gold 2.0" status will be killed by its parabolic rise and bust and maybe it is happening already. Just today the high was at $900.98 and the low at $502.62, according to mtgox.com. With this kind of volatility Bitcoin will be struggling to become The Currency, it is traders paradise for now, but it looks like our scenario $2000 - $50 (put your own numbers here) can happen very soon.

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/time-is-to-go-for-gold-bitcoin-just....

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 17:11 | 4182244 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I didn't see that low reported anywhere but I know other very bad smash-downs like the penny-smash was never reported on the charts.

Figures, fraud upon other nonsense.

I certainly target 50 USD for 1 BTC in the not too distant future. I want nothing to do with it. Fiat electrons do better for me short-term & gold / silver will do for the long term BECAUSE it's safe from prying eyes & silly grids that are aging & able to be removed at a moment's notice by humans or storms, etc.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:46 | 4172807 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

PMs taking a nose dive this morning.  But wait.  The chairman has yet to speak.  Then we will see if gold breaks below 1251 and stops are triggered.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 07:47 | 4172808 kenezen
kenezen's picture

A government employee, fairly high up the ladder I know of, is retiring. He already has a house and residencey structured in Thailand.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 12:24 | 4173634 whirlaway
whirlaway's picture

Who is the CNBC "lady" that Rogers is referring to?    Butt-oromo?!   http://www.timothysykes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/maria_bartiromo1.jpg

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