Jim Rogers: "Own Gold" Because "One Day, Markets Will Stop Playing This Game"

Tyler Durden's picture

Jim Rogers hope-driven wish is that the politicians were smart enough at some point to say (to the central bankers), "we've got to stop this, this is going to be bad." He adds, on the incoming QEeen, "she’s not going to stop it, first of all she doesn't believe in stopping it, she thinks printing money is good." However, Rogers warns in this excellent interview with Birch Gold, "eventually the markets will just say, "We're not going to play this game anymore", and we'll have a serious collapse." The world is blinded by central bank liquidity, and as Rogers somewhat mockingly notes "if everybody says the sky is blue, I urge you to look out the window and see if it's blue because I have found that most people won't even bother to look out the window..." Rogers concludes, "everybody should own some precious metals as an insurance policy," because as he ominously warns, when 'it' collapses, "there will be big change.

 

 

 

Transcript (via Birch Gold Group) 

Rachel Mills, Birch Gold Group (BGG): This is Rachel Mills for Birch Gold, and I am very pleased to be joined today by Jim Rogers, legendary investor. Thank you so much Jim for joining me.

Jim Rogers: I am delighted to be here Rachel.

BGG: So today I wanted to talk a little about stock market highs and Quantitative Easing and inflation and a little bit of Federal Reserve and when is the taper is going to happen and currency wars. But there is one question that I don’t have to ask you, which you get asked a lot, I know, and that is what your secret to being so prescient in the marketplace?

“…if everybody says the sky is blue, I at least urge you to go and look out the window and see if it’s blue because I have found that most people won’t even bother to look out the window…”

JR: As far as I know, I’m not quite sure. I do know that I have learned over the years, always, when nearly everybody is thinking the same way that means somebody’s not thinking that means we got to start thinking about it and see if there’s not another way, another approach. Because if everybody says the sky is blue, I at least urge you to go and look out the window and see if it’s blue because I have found that most people won’t even bother to look out the window. If they see on the television or in the newspaper or something that everybody says the sky is blue, I at least urge them to look out the window. I find that most people don’t want to do their homework, that’s the first problem that many people have, is just doing simple homework.

“…no matter what we all know today, it’s not going to be true in 10 or 15 years…”

Second, I have learned that if everybody says the sky is blue and I go and look out the window and see that it is blue, I have also learned that, well wait a minute, if everybody knows the sky is blue, is that going to change? Now that everybody knows something, is it time to start thinking about “Well maybe tomorrow the sky will not be blue?” And again, most people say “Well everybody knows the sky is blue and that’s all we need to know.” No, it’s not all you need to know because another thing I have learned in my life is that no matter what we all know today, it’s not going to be true in 10 or 15 years. You pick any year in history and go back and then look to see what everybody thought was true in that year, 15 years later the world had changed enormously. Enormously. And yet in that particular year everybody was convinced that this is the way the world was. Pick 1900, 1930, 1950, any year you want to pick, and you will see that 15 years later, the world was totally, totally different from what everybody thought it was at that time.

So I have learned, for whatever reason, to know that change is coming, to know to think against the crowd, that the crowd is nearly always wrong and to try to think for myself. Now, I certainly make plenty of mistakes and have made plenty of mistakes in my life, but these are some of the things that I have learned, to try to think around the corner, try to think to the future if you want to be successful.

BGG: Yeah that’s right. And I read somewhere, tell me if this is true, that you were shorting real estate in 2006?

JR: Yes, yes, 2006, 2007, 2008. Yes, yes. I was short Fannie Mae, I was short all of the investment banks. I was short all the banks.

BGG: And I bet, were people rolling their eyes at you, were they laughing at you?

rogers 1252603c 300x187 Exclusive Interview with Jim Rogers: QE, currency wars, gold and inflation
Photo: www.telegraph.co.uk

JR: Oh very much so. I went on television quite a lot in those days saying it’s crazy. And I was on CNBC and I explained that I was short Fannie Mae and had been short Fannie Mae and Fannie Mae finally started to collapse. And the lady said to me, “Well it’s your fault that Fannie Mae is going down, it’s the short sellers that are causing problems with Fannie Mae.” And I explained to her, “Listen lady, if you really think that short sellers are making Fannie Mae collapse, you better get another job, because that’s not the way the world works.” Short sellers do not make Fannie Mae go from $70 to $0, I assure you, the only thing that can make that happen is serious fundamental problems. So yes, everybody knew I was nuts back in those days!

And then, they started blaming it on me and on the short sellers, all of the problems. Nobody likes to take responsibility for their mistakes, certainly not politicians, but it was clear that first they laugh at you, then they ridicule you and say it’s your fault and blame it on you. Eventually they all say, “Oh, well we knew that. We thought of it ourselves! We knew that Fannie Mae was a fraud.” But that’s a difficult and sometimes painful process.

BGG: Sounds like they were attributing more power to you than you actually have!

JR: It’d be wonderful if all I had to do was sell something short and it would go down. Unfortunately it usually goes up when I sell it short, my timing is usually pretty wrong.

BGG: I want to talk a little bit about currencies. It seems that all the major countries in the world are in this race to the bottom to devalue their currency relative to all the others to appease their export industry. Meanwhile, workers and savers are getting killed by the cost of living increases that this is causing. Do you have any observations or predictions about how this currency war is going to end, or can it continue somehow indefinitely? And who wins in a currency race to the bottom?

“Eventually the markets will just say, ‘We’re not going to play this game anymore’, and we’ll have a serious collapse.”

JR: Well, the first thing you need to know is that nobody ever wins a trade war, a currency war, which is just another kind of trade war. Everybody loses in the end, some may temporarily come out ahead but it’s temporary if nothing else. As you have pointed out, the cost of living of many people is going up, and it certainly is, my gosh, in Japan you have a currency that’s down 25% in a year. Well I assure you the Japanese are feeling that because everything that Japan imports has gone up fairly substantially AND even the things that they don’t import are up because the Japanese manufacturers and the Japanese producers can raise prices because they don’t have to worry about competing with the foreigners any more.

“We’ve got to stop this, this is going to be bad.”

So we’re all losing in currency wars. How long can it go on? Well, it can go on as long as politicians can continue to print money. The problem is, of course, eventually the markets will just say, “We’re not going to play this game anymore” and we’ll have a serious collapse. You and I can print money all day long, but at some point, you, I and everybody else is going to say, “Wait a minute, guys, this money is getting worse and worse and more and more worthless, so why don’t we stop playing this game?” I wish the politicians were smart enough at some point to say, “We’ve got to stop this, this is going to be bad.”

But unfortunately they never have, and probably never will. Mr. Bernanke is certainly not going to stop it, because he doesn’t want to go down in history as causing the collapse. Mrs. Yellen, when she comes in, she’s not going to stop it, first of all she doesn’t believe in stopping it, she thinks printing money is good. And she knows – I hope she’s smart enough to know – that if she stops, oh my gosh, it’s going to collapse. So she’s not going to stop. Nobody wants to go down as causing the collapse of the world. So I’m afraid this is going to go on until the market eventually says to them, “Okay, enough is enough,” we have a big collapse and then they’re all thrown out and we can start over.

“Eventually they will try to cut [QE], it will finally cause the collapse, at that point we will have a big change, because they will throw them out, whether it’s the politicians or the central bankers or whoever.”

BGG: Wow, that’s a painful scenario actually. Do you think there is any chance that Larry Summers would have stopped Quantitative Easing at all?

JR: Well, first of all it’s irrelevant because he’s not going to be Federal Reserve Chairman. Second, even if he started, you know, if somebody came in and said, “Okay, we’ve got a terrible problem, we’ve made horrible mistakes, now let’s change things.” And even if everybody in the world said, “You know, he’s right, we’ve got to do something” and they started, well, within a few months or a year or two, the pain would be pretty horrible and then everybody’s going to say, “Well we didn’t know the pain was going to be this bad, this is not what we signed up for.” And then the guy would either be thrown out or assassinated or who knows what!

BGG: Oh yeah, they would blame everything on whoever stopped the party.

JR: Yeah. At first they say “It’s fine, we want to do it”, but once the pain comes, the pain is going to get pretty serious. We had Mr. Volcker who came in, was told “stop the madness” back in the 1970s and he did. Well, Jimmy Carter got thrown out, because he was who had told him to do that, because the pain was so bad. Reagan of course thought it was wonderful, that pain was taking place because that got him elected. And it was help to clean up the problems. That’s what happens, you cause the pain and they throw you out.

BGG: So, you don’t think there is any way they’re gonna make good on their threats or promises to taper?

Rogers S 640x360 300x168 Exclusive Interview with Jim Rogers: QE, currency wars, gold and inflation
Photo: www.jimrogerblog.com

JR: They might, no I don’t. They might start, as I said, somewhere along the line they’re going to start doing it. But when the pain gets pretty serious, the lady or the person or whoever it is, is going to have real problems. Let’s say that in 2015, Yellen says, “We’ve got to stop this” and they start stopping it, well, at that point it’s going to be pretty serious for the parties in power and they’re going to get thrown out and the next guys will continue to taper because, as I’ve said, they got power because of the tapering and the problems, and they’ll clean up the problems.

But that’s the only way that you’re going to see it stop someday. The market is just going to say, “We don’t want to play.” That’s what happened with Jimmy Carter when he was in, everything was collapsing: bond yields were falling apart, you know, inflation was everywhere. “Thank you Mr. Carter, we don’t want to play this game anymore. It’s absurd.”

BGG: What tip-offs are you looking for for where the top of the market is and when would you start to see the collapse coming? Are there signs that you’re looking for?

JR: Well, I wish I was that smart or it was that easy. Back in the late 1970s, Mr. Volcker was told and he came in and said: “I am going to kill inflation because Mr. Carter has told me to.” And Mr. Carter was very clear that he had to stop inflation. I doubt if we’ll have that kind of scenario again but we would think, we would hope, that the Federal Reserve will announce, you know, that they publish their numbers so we can all see what’s happening. At the moment they are buying a trillion dollars a year – that’s a trillion with a “T” – of assets. Eventually we will see that they stop that if they do or slow it down.

What will probably happen is that they will slow it down at first to see what happens, and if things aren’t too bad at first – and they probably won’t be too bad at first – well what is likely to happen is they will slow it down, things will drop, and then they will rally and the Federal Reserve will say “Hey, this is not so bad, we can do it.” And they’ll cut some more. Things will drop again and then rally, because it will take a while for people to really believe how bad it can get, or will get. And so eventually they will try to cut [QE], it will finally cause the collapse, at that point we will have a big change, because they will throw them out, whether it’s the politicians or the central bankers or whoever … will continue because they like it, they got the job because of the collapse and then we’ll finally start over. But it may be really painful in the meantime.

“I’ve owned gold for many years, I’ve never sold any gold and I can’t imagine I ever will sell gold in my life because it is somewhat of an insurance policy.”

BGG: Sure. And when we do begin the process of starting over, whenever that happens, it will be really good to have something substantial, something real, something other than paper in your portfolio. And that’s what Birch Gold is trying to help people figuring out how to do. So, we’ve always said that precious metals are a type of insurance for the long term. I read in your interview in Barrons that you are holding gold right now and expecting maybe a buying opportunity to come up. Do you still feel that way?

JR: Yes, I’ve owned gold for many years, I’ve never sold any gold and I can’t imagine I ever will sell gold in my life because it is somewhat of an insurance policy. I hope that my daughters own my gold someday, I mean I owned gold, I’ve never sold any gold and if gold comes down and I expect it to go down, doesn’t mean it will, I’ll buy more. I’m certainly not going to sell.

“Everybody should own some precious metals as an insurance policy. So if they don’t have any right now, I would urge them to go buy something.”

BGG: Right. So what advice would you give someone who as of yet has no precious metals in their portfolio right now?

JR: Well, everybody should own some precious metals as an insurance policy. So if they don’t have any right now, I would urge them to go buy something, buy themselves a gold coin if nothing else, and see that it’s not going to hurt. It won’t hurt you to buy the first gold coin, the first silver coin, and from that you start accumulating as your own situation dictates.

First, do your homework, don’t buy gold because you heard me say it or even because you hear you say it. But if people don’t own they should start after they have done their homework. And then they will probably, if they do their homework, most people will then realize, “Oh my gosh, I better have insurance, and gold and silver may get me through serious problems ahead.”

BGG: Yeah. How do you feel about silver? Do you favor silver over gold? How do you feel?

JR: Well, silver is historically down 60% from its all-time highs, so yes, I would prefer silver at the moment because gold is down only what, 30 or 40% from its all-time highs.

BGG: Well, thank you so much for talking with me today. I think we will leave it there. Thank you so much, Jim Rogers.

JR: Thank you Rachel, anytime. Let’s do it again.

BGG: I would love to.

JR: Bye bye.

BGG : Bye, thank you!

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lasvegaspersona's picture

Dear Jim

It is already too late for politicians and bankers to 'do'  anything.

Get zee gold is good advice however, thanks.

tsx500's picture

>>>>> Jim Rogers True American Patriot

>>>>> Barack Hussein Obama True American Patriot

Zer0head's picture

<-- Gold

<-- Bitcoin

 

Offthebeach's picture

Politicians=Central Bankers=Politicians=Central Bankers.

carlin401's picture

Pure GOLD bar or TAEL buried where only you know is your friend.

BTC ( bitcoin.org ) will collapse, and let the gubmint have it, lite-coin or something else will replace it, something that is real P2P. That offers real anonymity, and is-was not created by founder's hoarding 50% of the base.

The problem is 99% of the crypto-currency world is ran by get-rich-quick assholes, ... look to the FSF (free sw) community, to come forward with a real solution to the political mess that BTC (bitcoin.org) has created for itself.

Only a egalitarian 'coin' ( high tech chain letter ), that is not hoarded out of the gate, and truly anonymous, and non-trackable by government will succeed. Also in a PURE p2p world there will be NO 'pools' or 'exchanges'. Any consolidation ( centralization ) of cryto-currency will only lead to fraud or gubmint theft/control.

NO fucking 'tollgates' in the real crypto-currency future, then will get rid of most of the crooks, and let people 'donate' if they like what they get.

bunzbunzbunz's picture

Ha, you're kidding yourself if you ever think you could know a crypto-currency hasn't been hoarded by a few or an individual who create a few thousand fake internet identities. It's all about faith. Just like stocks, just like cash, just like gold. They are all worthless without faith.

Diversify or you will eventually lose. It's not that hard to grasp. And get FREE bitcoins from http://freebitco.in/?r=25727 instead of paying for them. Free are better!

aVileRat's picture

Only going to say this once:

Google, bitcoin hack. Spreading a bad 'Fork' is a pretty low-key trick and very easy to pull off should you have a large enough botnet to verify your set.

You can buy a Russian bot "seat" for about US$0.002/computer/hour. More than enough time to inject and run your own hash.

Ever wonder how despite it growing exponentially harder to mine coins, new coins are being dropped into the M1 of B$?

Enjoy.

JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I feel like a pirate every time I look at my gold! So awesome!

 

I mean, I USED to look at my gold before the accident involving seafaring vessels.

Richard Chesler's picture

I'm not sure. The head thieve in charge will be replaced by another head thieve, which will be replaced by another head thieve, and so on.

Never in their wildest dreams did the Jekyll criminals imagine the scam would last this long.

Fuck you Obama you corrupt piece of worthless shit.

GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Get zee gold is good advice however

 

Present.

 

You summoned me my league?

ebworthen's picture

GOLD Bitchez!

(no one had said it yet)

Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

what's wrong with bitcoin?

People don't give cred where its due - did you know that the hoard from Tutankhamun's tomb had 3 USB stix with bitcoins. True. Significance not realised until 90 years later when bitcoin was reinvented.

only they could neva crack the passwords because keyboards back in ancient egypt had heiroglyphics not alphabet, DER!!

 

you can guess from this that when i say i'm long gold, im loooooooooooooooooooooooong gold

MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Arrrr matey! These seas be a trial fer mere landlubbers!

http://youtu.be/v61sBTr7P-w

carlin401's picture

It will be done, and its spelled out very well in Satoshi's orginal paper. I think all along he planned for mischief.

 

Injecting hash-blocks into the system would be very easy for someone with lots of computers, say a virus person who commanded 10's of 1,000's of bot computers aka STUTNEXT ( israel/usa )

 

The NSA could certainly inject given their cpu horsepower, and bandwidth net power.

 

With little guys getting these asic's, soon they'll be selling special purpose USB routers that can inject ten's of thousands of hash-blocks per second onto the net, creating instant wealth.

 

Short term I see RANSOM demands by those who know about how to enable the BTC kill switch.

 

Later, I see black market creation of BTC's, ... perhaps even later we'll see the FED pulling new BTC's out of its arse.

 

***

 

Also don't forget guys that 1,000's of MINERS have this incredible hardware that is now useless, that hardware can just as easily run new algorithms that inject hash-blocks rather than 'mine' them, and once all this start's happening, ... it will become crazy.

 

Never fear, for every problem, there is the US-MIL and NSA who will be willing to step in and HELP, I can see a new US federal service whose only job it protect BIT-COIN, funny is BITCOIN chinese or is it NSA/CIA?

 

The chinese seem to think its there's and the NSA wants it back,

 

Then the little guys have all this FPGA, ASIC-USB stuff laying around from the mining days, ...

 

Going to be great times.

PREDICTION: COld war between USA and china over bitcoin.

OBAMA will soon order to DRONE country's that demand BTC for their OIL!

Zero Point's picture

You sir, are a vile rat. Kudos.

carlin401's picture

Read the "SHAMIR" ( world authority on cryptology ) paper about how he looked through the bitcoin logs ( blocks ) and found that 90% of the blocks were held by just a few people masking them into minority shares. He clearly summarized as early as 2010 that the BITCOIN.ORG was a pyramidal-ponzi in the making.

Go read 'Satoshis' orginal paper, he makes it very clear that the software only works when a majority of users are honest, once say in USA (NSA) or china, russia (KGB) that some super computer direct's a billion blocks of garbage into the system, the system will fail, and everybodys money will belong gone, missing or lost in the NULL bucket.

It's all there, its simply too bad that majority of people don't have CS degree or equivalent in knowledge to read the original papers for themselves and understand the system.

***

Lastly, NOTE I write bitcoin.org( the bad guys BTC ), not to be confused with Satoshi's ( good guy ) orginal paper 'bitcoin'

Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
Satoshi Nakamoto
satoshin@gmx.com

www.bitcoin.org [ Now the bad guys, as they long ago co-opted satoshi's orginal work, and turned into a machine for theft and toll collection's not unlike GoldmanSacks or any ATM grabbing 10% ]

Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online
payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a
financial institution.

***

Note p2p peer-to-peer means machine to machine individual, no fucking pools, no fucking exchange, and no fucking service fees (tolls).

Fuck the bitcoin.org wash dc mofu's.

fonestar's picture

I've already addressed your earlier post and I have read Shamir's findings when they were released.  He makes no such claim that Bitcoin is "a ponzi" or "a fraud" as you claim.  He merely points out some suspicious loop-back transactions early on in the blockchain.  And please point to how you feel bitcoin.org has altered the original protocol in any dramatic way?

carlin401's picture

I agree with you 100%

BTC,CASH-USD, stocks are all mirages,

 

But physical gold in your hand, and buried deep will look out after you forever, but so will ammo and guns properly stored in cosomoline.

 

TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Hoo needz goald, I hace teh bitcoinz! Hoo needz gunz, I hace teh Smith & Wessan and Rugerz stock!

Got it all figgerd out lulzerz.

carlin401's picture

Satohsi defined 'coin' as a high-tech 'chain letter' of signatures, where they could be probabilistically 'safe' by the fact that there would be a peer 2 peer network of 1,000's, and at any given time only a small number of 'crooks' contaminating the 'chain-letters' ( blocks in btc paralance ).

It's called Bit-Coin, because the 'chain-letter' are a stream of bits ( 0's and 1' ).

The problem is that P2P notion has been lost, and now the BTC's are hoarded on major exchanges where they can easily be contaminated, forged, or destroyed.

BTC as designed only works in a PURE P2P 100% open-shared environment of 'high tech chain-letters', with 1,000's or millions of users appending to the 'blocks' (coin signatures).

***

Another issue is the argument that BTC is based on 'math', no its not, its based on a fucking software program, that has been tweaked and hedged and fucked with by a political group calling itself "BITCOIN ORG". The orginal Satoshi design, is completely missing from the current incarnation of bitch know as 'bitcoin.org'. Of course the founders of bitcoin.org were sure to give themselves a major hoard of 'blocks' ( coins ) a long fucking time ago.

The 'mining' racket is all marketing, the real blocks were all given to insiders long ago, founding Satoshi ( secret ) is said to be sitting on over a billion dollars of BTC's ( current BTC capitalization >6B USD ).

***

The BTC movement has been proven, and in time a new face will come forward and deliver a PURE solution. The real fucking P2P community is already at arms against the fucking god-damn 'bitcoin.org', that is already politically butt fucking wash-dc.

Bitcoin.org has already hired a team of wash-dc lobbyists, and is already working with the likes of goldman-sachs, ...

Funny how BTC is worshipped by the very people said to be hated? But then like everything, BTC is ran by a 1%, and they want to work with Goldman-Sacks, cuz when your in the PONZI(mafia) biz you pay for the best protection in town(dc).

nmewn's picture

I've gotta say, thats a pretty good round up on it.

I'll only add "Satoshi" is an unknowable person and certainly a pseudonym of the mind (sounds pretty mystical though, like a sage almost...lol) perfect if one of the inventors were a psychologist...and there is a patent on BitCoin related technology (#20100042841) and those holding it are Neal King, Vladimir Oksman and Charles Bry...along with advice (no doubt) from Jed McCaleb.

At least none of them are named Ponzi...lol.

/////////////

And I'll say again...the same as I've always said...its a conduit for money, not money itself. Introducing Ripple (I think) ladies & gentlemen, the latest and greatest...from a pretty smart guy, in his own way ;-)

"...Ripple uses a set of independent operators, called gateways, who handle the business of taking and delivering the fiat cash..."

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/09/jed_mccaleb/

carlin401's picture

Plug-On

I completely agree

Ripple is great and so is lite-coin,

for those here that didn't get on these pyramid scams early, ... there is still time to learn and dip your noodle into the world of ripple and lite-coin,

We can only imagine at this point the 'investor' of BTC will be bailed out, now that it is +6 billion USD in capitalization, then the US gubmint will own it, and tell you that you must use it, but never fear the obama-care network specialists have already been hired by bitcoin.org for the transistion.

Bay of Pigs's picture

Wait a second....where the fuck is fonestar to explain this?

carlin401's picture

Fonestar has left the building, allegedly to SELL, I mean dump his BTC holdings, and his bladder and bowels.

The last 24 hours has been very hard for fonestar.

carlin401's picture

Most of the ideas were already out there, you can see Satoshi's original paper, and he gives credit back to the 1980's.

What Satoshi's did is statistically prove that so long as the system remained peer-2-peer and there were >+500 'good guys' to bad-guy ratio, then the quality of info would be near 0.98% kosher.

Of course the current system is not P2P, its centralized by mt-gox ( the likes of pools and exchanges ),

**

Also what we know is that almost all the MSM including ZH is given 'free' bitcoin donations, which of course is a massive conflict of interest, such that now we have almost all the MSM loving BTC to death,

When the Russian or Chinese or Czech's start injecting millions of bad hash-blocks into the system, it will fail, most likely some smart guy will demand a ransom, and the bitcoin.org will PAY, ... eventually the US Government will step into to offer 'protection' for bitcoin.org.

Then it will become a death-penalty ( droned ) to inject bad hash-blocks into the system, the NSA will be looking for such, and all in the world will except this NEW mission by the NSA/US-MIL.

nmewn's picture

"What Satoshi's did is statistically prove that so long as the system remained peer-2-peer and there were >+500 'good guys' to bad-guy ratio, then the quality of info would be near 0.98% kosher.

Of course the current system is not P2P, its centralized by mt-gox ( the likes of pools and exchanges ),"

And I believe I read in my link that Jed McCaleb sold Mt.Gox to whoever/whatever owns it now...I'll assume the transaction netted him something other than, BitCoin.

But hey, a surfer boy goes through a lot of board wax ;-)

bunzbunzbunz's picture

Hmmm...I guess gold has never been hoarded by anyone when prices were historically low. </ultra-sarcasm>

</gold>

<DUST>

<SPXL>

<BONDS>

</DUST>

</SPXL>

 

quasimodo's picture

Cheerleader much? You regurgitate the same hollow shit daily, failing to see what a scam there is to be found such as your precious BTC.

GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Hey, the guy wants to go to the devil.....step back and let him do it.

aVileRat's picture

Fuck Carlin, should have pushed my comment into your nested thread. Nailed it.

 

carlin401's picture

Don't fuck me, send me your coin.

LWKtYLFWp9aMBoWMhXznFzGyXFmm4LXh1c

***

I'm just a computer scientist, and I have spent my entire life following cryptology, so I find this interesting, I play on ZH from time to time, and I find all that is said here about BTC to be 100% bullshit, so in the last few days I have posted some truth about the issue, and you BTC promoters take offense to truth? For what?

1.) BTC is not anonymous
2.) BTC is not safe
3.) BTC is not egalitarian
4.) BTC is NOT your friend
5.) BTC mining is fraud to make people 'think' it came from somewhere.
6.) BTC has the smell of the NSA
7.) BTC endorses the TOLL-BOOTH model, fuck toll booths

Lite-Coin is your friend and ripple, ...

Everybody in the tech world hates bitcoin.org cuz they sold out to the WASH-DC establishment. Period.

ONLY the MSM now supports BTC, cuz BTC is dumping free coin on their door-steps for favorable 'urinalism' ( pee-pee talk for journalism )

Paveway IV's picture

BTC, Lite-Coin and Ripple all have to travel across the tapped and recorded Internet gateways.

I know in some fantasy world this can all happen P2P, but it won't and never will, aside from some fringe activity. For any of them to be of practical use, they're going to have to send packets through the backbone IXs. Encryption? Yeah, that means they have to beat your recorded traffic with a bigger computer to shake out some data.

The NSA loves *all* of them. Every one will allow them more capability to track financial activity and adds ironclad proof that your fiat was exchanged with someone else the government may not like.

And then there's the ultmate false flag where they have to hit the kill switch on the internet because of some supposed super-virus that breakes the gateways or infects ATMs or some nonsense like that.

Hint: it will happen on a Friday afternoon, they'll have to shut down everything over the weekend and they'll have the internet and ATMs up and working by Monday - they promise.

When you hear that, you have until 4 A.M. Monday morning (max) to make it to Canada or Mexico. Martial law after that.

Your bitcoins won't save you. Your phyz won't save you. You are not one of the ones they're going to save.

MeelionDollerBogus's picture

indeed. That's why a GPG signed & encrypted message would do much better.
I need only vouch as a trusted person to whoever trusts me for ANY kind of tangible items of value to trade.
Nothing about the message indicates it is financial. It's up to me to try to use networks which don't have traffic analysis snooping but this is not important most of the time. after all, where I was is not where I will be & nothing about the time / path indicates the future paths I will travel that pertain to the message.

Hint: the internet kill switch is a bomb. It's not a device, it's not a code or password, it's an actual tangible thing that actually cuts the networks at the biggest commercial hubs.

fonestar's picture

Are you alleging early adopters or insiders may have hoarded a longer (and correct) proof-of-work on the blockchain than the rest of the network?  I have wondered about the possibilities of this and how early secret hoarding could effect the chain?  Or if it would even matter seeing as how this chain would be vastly outnumbered by the other nodes on the network?

I am interested in listening if you can cite any sources.

carlin401's picture

'SHAMIR' the god father of encryption, wrote a paper in 2010 about BITCOIN, he found that 90% of the blocks were all traded by the same 'fake' handles.

He also found that 10% of the users, accounted for 90% of the transactions, and yes the 'founders' are sitting on billions of USD's worth of early shares.

It's a known fact that Satoshi's early hold of BTC is now worth more than $1Billion USD.

fonestar's picture

Okay, I am familiar with Shamir of RSA fame... and I am familiar with the idea that there exist these early adopters (dark pools) sitting on large amounts of BTC.  But would it be in their best interest to liquidate their positions?  Isn't it more likely that they simply realized what their creation was and were simply positioning themselves accordingly?

FYI I do agree that the genesis blocks of a blockchain-based p2p currency should be done out in the open to inspire more confidence.

fonestar's picture

Also, Shamir does not come out and say they are "fake" handles nor does he say that it is an attempt to conceal the original identity.  He only goes so far as to say it may indicate someone was attempting to hide their identity.  It's just as conceivable that they were playing around on the network back in the early days (as many engineers do), that he was distributing some bitcoin to friends and family (and wanted to protect them) or he was indeed attempting to conceal the original address but that doesn't necessarily infer his intent was malicious.   

carlin401's picture

SHAMIR explicitly says that BITCOIN is an orchestrated fraud by a very small group of insiders.

Enough said. http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf

The Bitcoin scheme is a rare example of a large scale global
payment system in which all the transactions are publicly accessible (but
in an anonymous way). We downloaded the full history of this scheme,
and analyzed many statistical properties of its associated transaction
graph. In this paper we answer for the rst time a variety of interest-
ing questions about the typical behavior of users, how they acquire and
how they spend their bitcoins, the balance of bitcoins they keep in their
accounts, and how they move bitcoins between their various accounts in
order to better protect their privacy. In addition, we isolated all the large
transactions in the system, and discovered that almost all of them are
closely related to a single large transaction that took place in November
2010, even though the associated users apparently tried to hide this fact
with many strange looking long chains and fork-merge structures in the
transaction graph

Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

i must admit at this point in the conversation that i am so, sooo impressed and dazzled by the complexity and intrigue of creating, using and safeguarding bitcoin!

 

...btw, I have no faith in using something so complex to safeguard my wealth. The last thing i need in my life is another fucking password. or ten.

fonestar's picture

I'm sorry, but for the sake of intellectual honesty it's important that you not put words in other people's mouth (especially someone of Shamir's stature).  He never uses the word "fraud", he uses the word "scheme" and I don't necessarily believe he used that in the negative sense of the word.

Look, if Satoshi the person (or Satoshi the group) still controls 500,000 BTC thats a great amount, around 1/24 of the total coins mined so far.  But put that in perspective to our current fiat masters..... we owe them all the currency in existence plus interest.  I'd say that make's Satoshi's hoarding still look rather egalitarian by contrast wouldn't you?

ZH Snob's picture

ingenious, zhead.

you gotta have the patience of a saint and the instinct to save above the desire to acquire.

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Beginning Bitcoiner Bearing is exploring BTC.

But, holds his wealth in gold.  + $55.000

Freddie's picture

Nickels like Kyle Bass.

Samsung paid those slimeballs at Apple - $1 billion in nickels for their lawsuit.  LOL!  F  U Apple!

http://thebladebrownshow.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/lawsuit-paid-in-full-s...

Jadr's picture

While that would be hilarious, it actually did not happen.

zhandax's picture

Lovely sentiment, but look that one up Freddie.  It would take every surviving nickel stamped since Regan retired.

Martel's picture

Somebody said this gold vs. bitcoin is a generational thing. If you're 40+, gold it is. If younger, perhaps bitcoin. I would be very, very surprised if Jim Rogers ever bought bitcoin. In fact, it could be a contrarian indicator.

I own both. I hope gold will some day be re-lifted to the historical importance it once had. I'm not holding my breath, though. Gold bugs have basically all Western governments, central banks and investment banks against them. Meanwile, bitcoin is bringing me profits - lots of profits. Sure, it could still end up badly. Still, bitcoin has the potential to develop into a giant Financial Black hole, where many other asset classes get sucked in, never to reappear. A Black Hole in a good sense of the word.

http://i.imgur.com/dJZGQ5K.png