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The "Obamacare Shock" - One California Employer's Terrifying True Story

Tyler Durden's picture




 

From a Zero Hedge reader:

My company, based in California, employs 600. We used to insure about 250 of our employees. The rest opted out. The company paid 50% of their premiums for about $750,000/yr. 

 

Under obamacare, none can opt out without penalty, and the rates are double or triple, depending upon the plan. Our 750k for 250 employees is going to $2 million per year for 600 employees.

 

By mandate, we have to pay 91.5% of the premium or more up from the 50% we used to pay.

 

Our employees share of the premium goes from $7/week for the cheapest plan to $30/week. 95% of my employees were on that plan.  Remember, we used to pay 50% now we pay 91.5% and the premiums still go up that much!!

 

The  cheapest plan now has a deductible of $6350! Before it was $150. Employees making $9 to $10/hr, have to pay $30/wk and have a $6350 deductible!!! What!!!!

 

They can't afford that to be sure. Obamacare will kill their propensity to seek medical care. More money for less care? How does that help them?

 

Here is the craziest part. Employees who qualify for mediCAL (the California version of Medicare), which is most of my employees, will automatically be enrolled in the Federal SNAP program. They cannot opt out. They cannot decline. They will be automatically enrolled in the Federal food stamp program based upon their level of Obamacare qualification. Remember, these people work full time, living in a small town in California. They are not seeking assistance. It all seems like a joke. How can this be the new system?

 

Pelosi, pass the bill to find out what's in it? Surprise! You've annihilated the working class.

Q.E.D.

 

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Wed, 11/20/2013 - 13:59 | 4173979 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

The Shocker, bitchez

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:02 | 4173993 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

What the fuck!!! This is such a sick and nasty society we live in. They should sue the government for rape charges.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:08 | 4174029 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

"Pelosi said pass the bill to find out what's in it."

As someone recently remarked, it sounds like a stool sample."

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:15 | 4174068 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Just dessert for the CA progressives who voted for this shit!  For the rest of you, it was time to leave several years ago.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:19 | 4174107 rcintc
rcintc's picture

Pellosi knew exactly what was in it...This is all done by design

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:23 | 4174137 Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

Pellosi is front running the laws she advocates and/or passes.  That bitch needs to be removed from office.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:32 | 4174155 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

  Haha!!!! It keeps getting worse for them.  We're lovin' it!!!!!http://theulstermanreport.com/2013/11/20/obamacare-website-crashes-durin...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:46 | 4174256 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Lol I saw that.  Of course right off the bat some dweeb remarks that it only keeps crashing because its so popular! People love it even though they can't get to it to assess the damage. Could you see Amazon running on that principle? They can't sell anything because its too popular?

Hell, they should have put the exchanges on the AH in WoW. At least Blizzard knows how to run a server.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:00 | 4174332 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

Good luck to all who are getting the rod up their arses.
Sorry but we all saw this coming, enjoy poverty.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:48 | 4174615 Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

I am a confused sort of guy today.  The California business guy says most of his employees qualify for MediCal (the California version of Medicaid) so why do they need insurance?  Is part of Obamacare that employed people must now pay a little bit for their Medicaid, and Medicaid now has a deductible of nearly $7K?

It sounds like the California business guy is now required to pay $3,300 per worker (whose cash comp is just short of $20K) so that is a significant increase in the guy's employee comp expenses, and he would be normal to complain.  But the federal taxpayer must be picking up an even bigger chunk.  And before Obamacare, most of his employees (the opt-outs) were probably on MediCal paid for by the California taxpayers.  So the net effect seems to be shifting cost from California taxpayers to the employer and federal taxpayers.  But too confusing to really understand what is going on there.

Must separate the issues:

1) Obamacare policies are crazy expensive, which reflects our religious devotion to insurance company profits plus the crazy high price of medical care in America.  Check.  Roger that.

2) How much should an employer of low-wage workers contribute to their medical care, vs. pushing the cost onto California and federal taxpayers via MediCal?  This is a familiar issue that comes up with Walmart a lot.  Is it really a great thing if the taxpayers subsidize this business by covering the health expenses of his low-wage employees? (Or let no one pay and they are just denied access to healthcare?)

3) These workers all belong to the 47%, yes that 47%, the one the Mittster and all the rest of you can't stand because they don't pay taxes.  If they now must contribute $1,500 per year to the cost of their healthcare, taking some of the burden off taxpayers, isn't that what you all want?  Doesn't that reduce their takerness?  Even aside from the clusterfrog of Obamacare, average medical expenses for a family would exceed $1,500 per year.  Why shouldn't they pay that?

Just askin.  Amid the anti-Obamacare firestorm, there seems to be very little actual clear thinking about the issues of healthcare in America.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:49 | 4174640 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

 

"By mandate, we have to pay 91.5% of the premium or more up from the 50% we used to pay."

If this is true, there is not a single company in America that will provide healthcare coverage. When does this part of it kick in?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:36 | 4175149 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

I liked the original Tron when it first came out. Leave it to obama to fuck that up, too.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:28 | 4176094 markmotive
markmotive's picture

"Government without painkillers"

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/11/the-obamacare-extension-government...

Is Obama truly trying to destroy the American middle class?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:06 | 4176200 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

The hidden agenda of Obamacare.

USSA: Emergence of a Socialist State

http://twoshortplanksunplugged.blogspot.com.au/2013/11/ussa-emergence-of-socialist-state_20.html

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 03:40 | 4176598 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Latest news is healthcaare spending is down. The dems are trying to take credit for it, via obamacare.

Obamacare isn't even up yet.

Healthcare spending is down because 10's of millions of policy holders were cancelled, full time workers were reduced to part time unbenefitted, which IS due to obamacare.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 01:50 | 4176524 PT
PT's picture

SMG:  Lol.  Thanks for that.  And if you hadn't have shown me that, I never would have seen this:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/buddhist-extremist-cell-vows-to-unleash-tranquilit,34623/ 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:13 | 4175417 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

"there is not a single company in America that will provide healthcare coverage"

That was the intent of Obamacare - discourage employers to drop private insurance.  As private enrollment declines and more and more insurance companies go out of business over the coming years, the government will eventually force the rest onto Obamacare.  I suspect Medicare and Medicaid will also eventually merge with Obamacare to the single-payer, limited-choice Obamacare plan.

For my little Silicon Valley company, the lowest monthly premium is $533 per month, up to $1,998/mo, with a $500-individual, $1,000-family deductible and employees have to contribute 20% of their individual premium, 50% of dependents.  I used to cover 100% of the premium for individuals, 60% for dependents, but the prices have gone up so much in the past that I had to change it a couple of years ago.  I stuck with the plan to grandfather it.  However, I am not sure how many more years the company can continue to provide insurance.  Paying the penalty is so much less.  The employees had sticker shock.  They had no idea how much the company was paying on their behalf.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:23 | 4175445 nmewn
nmewn's picture

All going according to plan.

Stretching peoples necks is in my plan.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:42 | 4175520 new game
new game's picture

and those muscles that control bowel movement; relax this might even feel good; i said i was with the gub and here to help you.

obviously opting out, and haven't had insurance for over 3 years. now some fucking penalty for being a citizen. I will be just using some of that 500/ month savings by not being on my wifes plan. for what its worth the whole crux of qualifying(for my situation) is "can you be insured under a private  plan?" well from there, making a whole wopping 12.50/hour, semi retired put me in a must opt out and pay the penalty.

What country are we in?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:50 | 4175979 uplicidlit
uplicidlit's picture

So, new game -- or anyone else with info, what I don't hear anyone anywhere speak about is: if you get in a bad accident or stricken with a disease -- do you not consider that you may get financially wiped out for the needed medical care?

That's the thing. People behave as if -- what the hell, I'll just opt out and pay the penalty.

Uhmm, there's a pretty big risk attached to that choice that no one seems to speak of.

What gives?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:23 | 4176084 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its called "catastrophic health insurance" and I believe you can still get it...until someone finds another part of "the law" (that no one read before passing) or the regulation derived from it, that prohibits it.

Or Obama declines to enforce it as "the law" cuz...ya know, he thinks he's King or sumpin.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:43 | 4176147 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

One of the worst debacles in the history of American Government and Obama hasn't fired a single person. Says it all.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:53 | 4176174 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Wrong, the catastrophic plans are the ones being canceled.  They don't meet Obamacare's minimum standards of coverage.  Now they are trying to backpeddle and reinstate those policies, but the insurance companies were glad to be "forced" to cancel them. 

"It's all bullshit, and it's bad for ya!" George Carlin

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:13 | 4176223 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"...until someone finds another part of "the law" (that no one read before passing) or the regulation derived from it, that prohibits it."

Yes, covered it...my Carlin favorite:

"I'm tired of these self-righteous...these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world safe for their Volvos."

And...here we are, more insurance for their Volvos ;-)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:01 | 4176347 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

they should instate some kind of constitutional provision that bills before congress be a maximum of 50 pages at 10pt type

these bullshit 2000 page tomes with all sorts of provisions for totally unrelated topics render even the best intended congressman utterly ineffective

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:45 | 4176438 joeknows
joeknows's picture

Bad accident? Like at work (workers comp) like getting hit by a car (auto liability insurance) fall down stairs (property liability insurance).  What other than cancer or some random crazy disease wouldn't be covered by other types of insurance?  You fools make me laugh.  We got insurance comming out of our asses for a fart that might come out crooked and knock the old lady down the stairs.  Your telling me we need medical insurance incase of a "bad accident"  what "bad accident" isn't covered with a law suit?  waiting.........crickets...........

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 06:52 | 4176691 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

That argument always rubbed me the wrong way. Most Americans have almost zero net worth and this fact I am sure is more representative of the 50M people who did not have health insurance. Besides a small sliver of the population that had assests and were locked out of the market due to pre-existing conditions, who does all of this help? Somebody gets sick and loses their $1,800 life savings? We have to upend everything?

Many of the 50M did not have insurance because it did not make economic sense. From the news coming out, having insurance may not make economic sense to even more people due to the high cost of this "affordable" insurance. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 15:00 | 4178362 uplicidlit
uplicidlit's picture
@joeknows - you make some valid points but they are not as simple as you state. Auto policies have lowish medical coverage; it could be a pittance relative to what treatment costs might be.

Lawsuits? Ok, yeah...maybe. But, hello....where is the guarantee that will work in your favor? Depending on the situation, YOU may have to upfront the attorney fees and take the risk that you don't win the case and all the $$ invested in the lawyer are out of YOUR pocket. Oh and, it will surely take a long time and be extremely stress-inducing. Not so simple.

 

@FredFlintstone - It was implicit that I was referring to people that DO have assets. I'm in my 50's and almost everyone I know has some actual net worth. Large 401k's and/or other investment accounts, homes owned free and clear...and these are middle class types. People with average incomes but a NET worth of 250K - 750K, because they lived within their means and made some decent choices. 


So, we're supposed to just suck it up and pay these exhorbitant premium increases; even though we're not sick and live fairly healthy lives? Is that it?  I haven't been to the doctor for anything other than physical exams in 8 years. I have no reason at present to believe the near future will be any different for me. So, I should be fine with paying $5500 a year in 2014 for my health plan (a 70% increase!)?  At that rate it would be 55K over the next decade and I'm likely to incur costs to the plan of $2500-3000 during that time for annual exams.  


So, yeah it's a dilemma. Because if that bad thing does happen, it could financially devastate you at a time in your life when you don't have decades to recoup. I have no doubt there are several million people in this dilemma, Fred.

  
Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:39 | 4175739 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Obama lied... Health care died.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:27 | 4176092 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

Obamacare is brilliantly evil.

It is so fucked-up, the red team hates it, the blue team hates it, citizens hate it. Who did I leave off?

The insurance companies love it.

Brilliant.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:22 | 4175876 sgorem
sgorem's picture

I'm on your train of thought too. Hang 'em high. How many people will DIE from this fucking abortion before the rest of us do something to restore some semblance of sanity to our Republic?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:40 | 4176137 The Burning Planet
The Burning Planet's picture

My prediction is ACA will be repealed, by ConCon. But only after incredible pain and suffering, and civil unrest.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:50 | 4174645 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

And that's because the entire focus is on who  pays the bill and not the size of the bill to begin with. Healthcare costs are probably 75% higher than need be due to the cartels in the healthcare trade.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:53 | 4174971 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

More like 90%. There are private hospitals that will treat you for 1/10 the so called going rate. Insurance companies routinely pay 1/10 what they charge uninsured patients.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:57 | 4175595 new game
new game's picture

call bullshit-1/10 not so. just (not insured) paid for the hospistal portion of a hernia surgery and insurancevwould have paid about 2.5 times high than 1/2 down and  balance in 90 days.

just sayin.

max scam

please someone, find some sanity in all this.

all i want is an open fair marketplace w/o the fucking gov.dickupass

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:25 | 4175455 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

<----- Bunz is a shameless prick

<----- I want to diversify my SHTF fund with free bitcoins: http://freebitco.in/?r=25727

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:51 | 4175562 infinity8
infinity8's picture

That is exactly right in every way! Why did I think, in younger years, when I would hear some politician's gums flap about reforming healthcare, that they might be talking about this issue (size of bill)? LOL - Look, over there! It's Elvis!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:14 | 4176371 infinity8
infinity8's picture

Well and, fuck me. I didn't notice I'd pop up under "bunz". Bunz, I'd probably be with you if I didn't think you had Tourette's or something like it..? Good luck, Fucker (I said with a capital "F" out of ((a little)) respect for your fortitude.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:04 | 4175821 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

What did someone say the other day... "Socialism works until you run out of other peoples money." lol

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:53 | 4175990 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

The problemn with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.  Margaret Thatcher

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:06 | 4176358 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

so so true. but how do you stop capitalism morphing into crony capitalism morphing into socialism

its like you can watch george orwell's Animal farm in reverse and it still makes perfect sense

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:46 | 4176155 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture
Obamacare may need a taxpayer bailout: Ex-HHS head

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101210207

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:47 | 4175969 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

If the government can force Americans to pay for a plan they don't want then it can easily force Doctors, plan CEOs, and HMO heads to accept no higher pay than $150K a year. 

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:41 | 4176143 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm sure the doctors forced into wage controls, remaining in that system, will give everyone the care they are paid for ;-)

But yeah, the big problem is administrative/corporate/regulatory costs...I think everyone can see that...anything over twenty five cents for an aspirin is fraud/theft.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:52 | 4176168 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

True dat. I remember going with my friend to his doctor's office for something. The Doc had his waiting room slit into two areas by a wall.

On the HMO side it was smelly, dark, dirty carpet, cold, etc and you waited for a loooong time.

On the non-HMO side there was mahogeny wood floors, soft muzak, coffee, various magazines, and a sweet nurse who went around asking if you need anything and you quickly seen by the Doc.

I see more of this style of practice coming.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:51 | 4174964 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

1) - You do understand the insurance corporations have been in bed with congress for over a century?  Congress has allowed them to operate in what is essentially 50 different mini-monopolies.  Full, open competition and less govt. intervention could have corrected this a long time ago.  In modern times they've queered the deal by allowing insurance companies and their lawyers to really fuck up healthcare.

2) - None (see "1" above) Given enough competition and a variety of insurance plans, people can choose the plan that suits their needs and personal economics.  If some form of assistance is required, well, we already have that in place.

3) - The problem is they WON'T be able to pay that... not after they, along with millions like them, have their work hours reduced so the business they work for can cut costs.  They will make a choice like so many on fixed incomes that end up choosing between thigns like food vs. heat... or food vs. medication.  No one is going to see a reduction in their taxes - what fucking fantasy land do you live in?  You want to fix the problem, fix the core of the problem... too much govt. intervention from a govt. that is WAY too large and bloated with agencies, bureaus and financial commitment is the problem.

Look, show me some situation in the past 200 years where the government grew, created a new agency or bureau and the country became financially more sound, we saw less taxes and the discretionary income of the middle class increased.  It's bad enough that our currency has been usurped by a vile central banking cartel but we must also be under constant attack from our govt. trying to extract as much of it from us at every moment that currency makes a move in our life (income, sales tax, etc.)

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:24 | 4175692 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

don't forget drug companies too. That industry has come on like a mother and spends a ton for their prostitutes on the hill. We do not buy our medicine on the open market where we could pay massively less.

Remember, just like Cheney's oil meetings, this "open administration" had lots of secret meetings with both industries and by amazing coincidence not only do both industry giants (and only the giants) NOT take a hit (like the rest of us) they gain profit, get legally ordered customers who pay them or pay a fine, they lower competition, and help enact a law so unconsitutional that the Supreme Court had to relabel it a "tax" to make it pass legal muster.

No matter WHERE you sit in the medical debate - single payer, clear open compeition, or anywhere else - this thing is a corrupt and insane piece of shit that makes no medical sense, no fiscal sense, no free market sense and is a "banker" bailout for two industries that don't even need one.

NOTE TO ANGER: I think I posted this already but my solo law practice plan (for six family members) went up fifty percent on the medical and 100 percent on the dental.  

    

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:55 | 4174979 Binko
Binko's picture

People on forums like this don't have any answers for the questions you are asking.

I've concluded that a large number of posters would be perfectly happy to simply let the 50% of the public making low or minimum wage starve in the street or die from lack of access to simple healthcare. They would be perfectly content to stride through a horde of starving children just like they do in India or Mexico as long as their privileged position is secure. 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:27 | 4175115 grouchist
grouchist's picture

I was with you until "Mexico".  True there are a lot of problems there but Mexico is a country (a) with no social safety net, (b) that has working, afforable health-care that working-class Mexicans can use.  In Mexico if you fall nobody is there to catch you or give you an EBT card (modulo full-court press "democracy" of the kind that Peña-Nieto plays), however if you break your leg or are ill and go to hospital you won't be turned away. Even if you're a foreigner with no money. Mexican doctors seem to actually have heard of this Hippocrates guy, too. I guess barbaric customs like oaths have fallen out of favor in the developed world and anyway do no harm is clearly bad for business... a little harm goes a long way on the bottom line if you're an insurance company, one way or another.

If you're looking for answers why not try the real world... you know, the one across the border from LaLaLand?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 18:14 | 4175263 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Mexico has a safety net, a great fucking big one just north of it's border.  You sneak over a couple family members a year and they wire the gringo dollares back south.

Now, about time the good ole USA goes tits up in the water THEN you'll see a lot of circus acts with no safety nets.
China
Africa
Mid East, they'll all do the stop, drop and flop, too.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:39 | 4175156 sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

I don't think that is right for 95% of the privileged.  I think that most of us would like and hope for these people to be able to work, get educated, grow, etc., so that they could make enough to afford the things in life.  Many of us just don't want it taken away from us to just be given unearned or unappreciated to someone (and yes I give much to charity.....not by force but by choice).  Everyone can encounter bad times, and we should have societal saftey nets, but actions have to have consequences (including bad ones)  There are no guarantees in life but let them have an opportunity to earn it and then not be a burden on society, and not need to take mine so that they have some.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:48 | 4175183 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Are you talking about the situation before or after Obamacare? I´m confused.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 18:10 | 4175255 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Binko, Yes, what you say is true. SOme here are of that type. But many are not. The story above is very dubious, I doubt it is even real. It does not square with reality. Nobody can force a person to take a health plan like the one mentioned. The exchange offers dozens of choices. Sometimes more than dozens. Poor people qualify for a portion of the premium to be paid by government. Everybody in an insurance pool reduces to zero the number of uninsured whose bills are tacked on to my premiums and delivery costs. I two years time, all this hysterical stuff about a simple private health care insruance exchange will be a non-story. The great fear is that it works, like Romney care did and most people end up with insurance. Beware who writes the stories like these, their agend is clear. 1%'ers are bullshiting the rabble with their highly paid PR folks. I swear to god that this will be a non-issue on short order. Look at Romney's state that did this exact same plan, nobody is in hysterics there. If anything, this plan is too corporate friendly, allowing insurance to cost too mush and deliver too little. Single payer would slash the insurance overhead by 99%, policies would be much lower, and that is a fact, as factual as the laws of math.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:45 | 4175767 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Why down votes for Jack?  He must make too much sense for some of you.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:05 | 4176028 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

I see the down votes, but I am not hearing the 'why'.  That was the question.   No I am not a socialist or pro-ACA so you can save that bit.  Just, why?

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:14 | 4176383 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

No, this won't come out well for most in the long run.  Don't you get it?  The insurance companies helped write this fucker.  Do you think they had the personal economies of their customers in mind when they crafted this bullshit?  Of course they fucking didn't.  They got all their asshole actuarial bean counters together and figured out how much blood they could squeeze out of us.  It was the perfect scenario for them... raise the fucking premiums, and if you don't like it tough!  The legislation made it mandatory and big govt. is going to force you to comply.  We have NO choice... and that's just fucking fine with the insurance companies and all the capitol hill personalities they manipulate.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 18:22 | 4175279 malek
malek's picture

I've concluded that a large number of posters like you decide to set competition and "supply and demand" equal with "people starving in the street" (because by definition never can all demand be met)
thereby allowing them to stop thinking and simply divide good and bad guys by preconceptions or gut feeling.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:30 | 4175911 sgorem
sgorem's picture

"as long as their privileged position is secure"......and just WHO in the fuck is priviliged around here? ASSHOLE!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:55 | 4176003 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Interesting that you have that socialist Bertrand Russell as your icon.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:03 | 4176188 The Burning Planet
The Burning Planet's picture

Have you reviewed the Gold, Silver and Bronze plans? How do you feel about the fact that the smallest deductable in the lowest price plan is over $6000? How is that in the interest of the working poor? Who on minimum wage can afford to shell out that kind of money even if the govt subsidizes the premium? Maybe I don't understand the byzantine fine print in the law but this just seems unworkable.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 03:17 | 4176582 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Suppose that, with subsidies, a low-paid worker can get the insurance for free.  Yay.  Health insurance for free.  So they get sick, or badly hurt.  In order to get medical care for either, the low-paid worker must pay the first $6,000 out of their pocket.

What low-paid worker has a savings account with $6,000 in it???

There is the disconnect.  Free or low-cost insurance matters to the low-paid worker only so long as they don't need it.  When they need health care, they won't be able to afford it (they won't have a free $6,000 sitting around).  But isn't that the whole point of insurance?  To enable folks who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it to get it.?

The outcome.  Higher premiums means more money for the insurance carriers.  And can't pay the $6,000 out of pocket, so less use of the health-care system.  Win-Win all the way around - for somebody - but not for the sick or injured.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:11 | 4175048 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

One thing I've never understood about the US:

Why in Gods name are employers responsible for providing health care to their employees in any way, shape or form?

I've never understood that one.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:20 | 4175091 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Why in Gods name are employers responsible for providing health care to their employees in any way, shape or form?

You can thank FDR for that. During WWII when he instituted wage and price controls, employers were forced to find non monetary incentives to rercruit from the greatly reduced pool of labor. Healthcare benefits was one such avenue. 

Once a "benefit" is "given"; it becomes impossible to ungive it.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:36 | 4175146 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Cheers mate. That one has never really made sense to a non US citizen.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:22 | 4176397 SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

So here we are, politicians forcing crap on us to "fix" crap that they forced on us before.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:14 | 4175062 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

1.  Just what were the profit margins of insurance companies before this?  I've heard 4%.  That isn't much.  Stop your bitching.

2.  That should be negotiable between the employer and the employee.  Sadly it became a government issue in the 1950s and it would seem that healthcare has been spiralling since then.

3.  We want them to have the freedom to choose.  Government dictating that you must buy or pay a fine is not freedom of choice.

4.  When are you going to recognize that those 47% have voted and brought all this on themselves and us?  When will you realize that a free market corrects itself with minor burns to a few?  A centrally planned market protects itself with major burns to all.

Stop listening the your professors or whomever is feeding you the BS.  Read some books on history and start thinking.  You aren't a tinman are you?  You do have a brain don't you?

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:20 | 4176246 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Hm. Just 4%. Of seven trillion dollars.

Forty billion here, forty billion there. Pretty soon you're talking about some real money.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:16 | 4176387 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Yeah... 4% isn't bad either if everyone is forced to pay.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:08 | 4175638 patb
patb's picture

70% of his employees couldn't afford their plan, that's why they weren't covered.

 

 

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:50 | 4186721 TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

So the solution is to make it more expensive, pass the costs onto the business, and just expect that they're not going to pass it right back onto the employees? How ignorant can one get?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:50 | 4175981 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

MediCal/Medicaid costs are not the fault of any business. They are the fault of an increasingly collectivist society. It is us to the State where to draw the lines as to who can get it at what income level. Businesses don't "push" people into government funded healthcare any more than they push people into Social Security or unemployment insurance. These are government created programs that are forced upon the subjects of the USA.

You can ask why any employer or person shouldn't buy or pay for something for someone else on any number of fronts. The simplistic but accurate answer is freedom. When you are forced you are not free. When someone can force you to buy them something then you become the servant to fulfill the purposes of another without your agreement or compensation. This is generally called slavery at it's natural conclusion.

Now the Left, contrary to their public comments has no problem with forced servitude. You will be forcibly enlisted into their plans for life and you will support it, even if it does not work like Obamacare. You have no choice or say in it. What is worse is that your healthcare plan may have been created by a plumber in Congress. You will get the full fruits of their genius and power...as you see now.

So, get your target and scapegoats right. I prefer liberty where this crap cannot happen.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:51 | 4176159 InvalidID
InvalidID's picture

 

 There seems to be some muddled thinking on your part here. I have a hard time getting passed this part for example. How much should an employer of low-wage workers contribute to their medical care, vs. pushing the cost onto California and federal taxpayers via MediCal?

 So why exactly should employers be FORCED to pay for anyones healthcare? A job isn't your mom, keeper, or there to take care of you. It's a job, it's reason for existing isn't to make sure you are taken care of but to make a product/service and turn a profit doing it. By paying a wage people are willing to work for they have pretty much covered their end of the bargan. Forcing them to pay more is just creating less jobs....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 02:07 | 4176537 dunce
dunce's picture

No one is denied health care before or after obama care though they might well be denied health""insurance"'. Please keep the facts straight. Actually he sounds like he has many illegals on his payroll, but that is just an educated guess. He must have enough resources to shut the business down , and live off  his savings until we get some better government. He only owes those 600 workers up to the last day they work and then as obama was fond of saying "they are on their own".

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:13 | 4176384 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

My Dad was a Doc in the mid '60s.  They had a work ethic and a social ethic.  The lawyers call it pro bono.  My Dad did a whole lot of that.  He hated socialism, but he knew his well to do patients from the poor ones and well .... acted accordingly.  He was a humanitarian.  You wouldn't believe the stuff we would get around Christmas.  The house was packed.  I learned to really hate fruit cake.  Some might call that the black market.  We will see it (again) in medicine.  Health care is a business - just like everything else.  Docs like to eat, and they don't like a lot of BS lawsuits from idiots trying to bilk them and the insurance system.  At the end he was glad I didn't follow him into medicine.  If I had to do it over again - starting 15 years from now - I would go into medicine.  The system would have self corrected by then.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:49 | 4186714 TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

Spare the rod, spoil the child, sayeth the Catholic church.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:02 | 4174340 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Nancy "We have to pass a law first to discover what it means & what effects it will have" Pelosi is just one in a long line of legislators wrecking both Cal-i-forn-i-a & the nation, but the land of fruits & nuts can't get enough of Pelosi's strap-on anal buggery.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:10 | 4174771 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Land of fruits and nuts?  Oh, I see what you did there.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:09 | 4175640 Pig Circus
Pig Circus's picture

Land of fruits and nuts?

With every Fruit a little nuttier and every nut a little fruitier.

H/T: Archie Bunker

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:22 | 4174825 in4mayshun
in4mayshun's picture

There is a lot of good people in California and even in Pelosi's district. The problem is that they only give Libtards and Psychopaths a soapbox or loudspeaker, so it appears everyone in Ca is insane. The hardworking conservatives are too busy working and paying taxes to support the illegals to have time to get involved in politics.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:44 | 4174932 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Your definition of a "good" person, please.

The anticipation is killing me.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:29 | 4175123 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Maybe someone who doesn't lie, steal and cheat their entire life like Nancy Pelosi? Some people actually have integrity and are honest and decent to their fellow man.

I know, hard to believe with the cess pool that is now 'Murika.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:19 | 4175868 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Nancy Pelosi is a first degree hypocritical lying cunt...someday she will be held accountable for her beahvior.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 18:52 | 4175359 RobD
RobD's picture

Once you get away from the lib shit holes like LA, San Francisco, and Sacramento most of California is populated by regular hard working common since types. The problem is that there are not enough of them to counter the population of the lib shit holes. Go to the northern part of the state and you would not know you are in California except for the job killing regulations and taxes.  I have a cabin in the North Eastern part of the state and the Deputy Sheriff is a good friend. I'm always quizzing him on the latest wack gun law that was passed in Sacramento and he just gives me a look and says "those are city laws, thy don't apply here". Note: Just because he says they don't enforce those "city laws" dose not mean the CHP won't so I keep well informed and comply.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:19 | 4175690 nightshiftsucks
nightshiftsucks's picture

Are you really that fucking stupid ? Do you really believe that everyone in the SF Bay Area are lazy libtards ? If you do then your buddy must surely be some redneck goon, I have visions of Deliverance running through my head.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:50 | 4175781 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

I  thought I heard banjos.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:13 | 4176212 The Burning Planet
The Burning Planet's picture

dup

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:15 | 4176222 The Burning Planet
The Burning Planet's picture

Uh, a couple counterpoints.

Michael Savage got his start in radio in San Francisco, on KSFO. So if it were THAT liberal... just saying.

There's also communities in CA that are Breaking Bad, like Clearlake, where you'd be wise not to get out of your car.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:27 | 4176260 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

You're right.

And it couldn't matter less.

In California, elections are 139 welfare recipients and .gov employess and 100 people 'in the private sector' voting on what to have for dinner.

Even if it were 101 versus 99, it wouldn't make any difference.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:24 | 4176404 SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

...and plotting our escape.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:09 | 4176370 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Go fifty or sixty miles inland from the left coast and you'll soon realize that the 'nuts' are pretty conservative.  Unfortunately, the populations are concentrated on the coast and sea breeze makes them fruitier than normal.  The vote is overwhelmingly democrat along the coast.  Split Cawleefowneeah (as a former governor used to say) down the length, fifty miles in and you'd have another Texas.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 01:05 | 4176470 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

We're all being set up....the next step to "fix it all" will be a true, 100% take over of all "health care".   True mandates, and truly mandatory participation.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:49 | 4174267 Gold N Glocks
Gold N Glocks's picture

That bitch needs to be removed.

 

Fixed it for ya =)

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:20 | 4174818 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Removed from office? To be replaced with what?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:30 | 4174861 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Why, Chelsea Clinton, silly.  (just sayin' it and luvin' it)

It will be trifecta: Clinton-Yellen-Clinton in the 9th race...or is that the 9th gate of Hell ?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:34 | 4175484 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"Clinton-Yellen-Clinton in the 9th race..."

Yo HZ.

You can bet your sweet bippy, that if the commie criminal hag clinton runs for office in the face of all the lies, corruptions, criminality, and murders it has been involved in, those trusty machines will vote her in even in the face of a 98% vote against her/it.

Ha! Go figure.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:57 | 4174989 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

A constitution bound federalist papers pedant who says no a lot.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 05:03 | 4176652 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Replaced with nothing sound right to me

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 20:06 | 4175626 Debt-Is-Not-Money
Debt-Is-Not-Money's picture

"Pellosi is front running the laws she advocates and/or passes.  That bitch needs to be removed from office."

Her real name is Nazi Pelosi!

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:28 | 4176095 phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

Pelousi

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:54 | 4174677 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

I want you to seriously look into Nancy Pelosi's eyes and then tell me that she's capable of designing a napkin.  This isn't design.  It's pure stupidity.  Most of what is happening now, INCLUDING what is happening at the fed, is not design, but simply what happens to the ship of state when nobody has the rudder.  Pelosi is too busy at the botox beautique, Obama is too busy with his golf clubs and mirrors, Bernanke is too busy combing his beard and Reid is too busy doing whatever Reid does to spend any time actually figuring out how to govern or make policy.

Curse all of the above, by all means...but curse them for stupidity.  To curse them as evil geniuses is to give them way more credit than they deserve.

Occam's Razor, bitchez.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:42 | 4175515 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"To curse them as evil geniuses is to give them way more credit than they deserve."

Arr Aard!

Yes, but to curse them for being puppets does not count at all, since everything they do is worthless and only part of their master's plan for world domination and population reduction using all sorts of money-god methodologies.

All should ask the inner heart part they are, who is your master?

You can only serve one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zavbgO1s8io

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:13 | 4176057 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

“Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence.”
? Napoleon Bonaparte

 

They are not always out to ruin America, They are just really fucking stupid.  (sometimes evil, but mostly dumb)

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:29 | 4176268 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

H. L. Mencken.

I say that a lot. When people start getting angry.

Like me.

With my wife.

No, she's not evil. She's just stupid.

Oddly, I find that comforting.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 00:23 | 4176402 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people."

H.L. Mencken

Paraphrasing .....

'If you want to get depressed, think about how stupid the average American is and then recognize that half are moar stoooopid.'

George Carlin

Paraphrasing ..................

'Americans will always do the right thing.  After they have first done all of the wrong things.'

Winston Churchill

Proving Churchill's maxim.......

'You have to pass it to find out what is in it.'

Nancy "Botox" Pelosi

Just what is in that face of her's ... 500 CC of super toxic bacterium?  Didn't somebody die from overinjecting that stuff once?  One would think that she generates enough venom internally to not see the plastc face doc.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:39 | 4175158 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"Pelosi knew exactly what was in it.....This is all done by design."

Never a truer statement has been made, rcintc.

This is by design to lead us to single payer.  The genius of the progressives is knowing that they can't just impose socialism on the Sheeple at once.  They have to do it in stages.  And sometimes it takes blowing the sytem up with a really fucked up design that destroys the path back so there is no alternative but to go forward into the next generation that finally says....fuck it....give me my single payer.

And the idiots on the conservative side keep calling the liberals stupid and dumb.

No...they are geniuses. The plan is working perfectly.  They even make their fuck ups work to their advantage.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:34 | 4176274 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

It's an enticing argument.

But I really do think that they all they really had in mind was shovelling dough at the insurance companies.

Remember? When Soctt Brown won "Teddy Kennedy's seat," his opponent was in Washington the weekend before the election getting money from United Health, Blue Cross, you name 'em.

(But remember ... Republicans are the tools of big business, banks, insurance companies, oil companies, etc. Dems are for the little guy. Just how fucking stupid can progressives be?)

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:19 | 4174116 Say What Again
Say What Again's picture

Congress is so messed up...  They pass bills that they NEVER read.  A bill that is over 1000 pages long is presented, and then passed the next day.

We need to have an "exam", just like in high school, for the bill.  If the senator, or representative cannot get better than 70% of the answers, he is removed from office!  This would be way better than an impeachment proceeding.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:21 | 4174128 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Lobbyists write these bills and off they go for passing.  Sickening.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:40 | 4176292 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

@say what: Poll taxes and the like are unconstitutional, you know. Especially anything that measures a person's intelligence or knowledge of the issues.

I mean, can we all agree that the guaranteed path to prosperity of a nation is to put FUCKING STUPID PEOPLE in charge.

Such as the voters who, in Oregon or Washington just a few weeks ago, elected people ... who had died months earlier (after the deadline for removing their names from the ballot). Fucking stupid idiot fucking voters didn't  even fucking know if their fucking candidate was fucking alive or DEAD! (Where's that 'cunt scab eating' guy. I lack talent at this.)

Or the Republican down in Texas who got elected by convincing the electorate he was black?

All this shit in government is just a symptom of a problem that just gets worse and worse. Idiocracy, it turns out, was, in fact, a documentary and a prophecy.

And there's not a fucking thing any of us can do about it.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:44 | 4174245 mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

How about, without supper-majority, a one year vetting period.

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:39 | 4174900 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

All law should expire after 5 years, no renewals and reintroduced as a new bill, and must be read in it's entirety on the floor of the house voting on it with a quarum of the elected officials present.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:00 | 4175810 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

No need, rule of law itself expired 5 years ago.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:43 | 4176300 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

Twelve actually.

Do you know that I have spent almost ten fucking percent of my entire fucking life ruled by that fucking lying Muslim homo Kenyan asshole?

Ten fucking percent of my entire fucking life. (And I am kinda old.)

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:31 | 4174862 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

What do you mean congress?  Not a single member of the republican party in either house voted for this mess.  Use a little discrimination, you'll find it makes life easier to navigate.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:35 | 4174877 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

Darn, that red pill/blue pill cliche no worky here.

Poor libertardarians.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:01 | 4175011 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

Problem is, thumbsdowners, I'm a libertard too.  I voted for Ron Paul.

But the truth is, as the poster mentioned above, when it comes to the ACA, its the Blue Team all the way. 

They rammed that one-sided shit all the way through like a goat raping rodeo.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:35 | 4175143 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Say what?
As someone long on pragmatism and short on ideology/theology, I'd say it's time for...

A. Health Tourism
B. List of Economic Visas (foreign residency) by country. I'm sure the Usual Suspects (Simon Black, Casey) can/will provide details.

Else... The financial beatings will continue, until the morale improves. And the full measure of Sadists to Masochists is reached. /s

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 18:56 | 4175372 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Jordan has a thriving business from Westerners seeking medical care in an environment that employs Western standards of care. Some of those are sponsored by American insurers who also pay for travel arrangements for the patient and a significant other. Their medical/health tourism has been so successful that they have had to expand their facilities. It is also a beautiful country that offers things to do for patients that are no longer hospitalized but are still recooperating. Medical tourism is not anything new.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:38 | 4176132 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

DING DING DING DING!

Just last evening I was conversing with Mrs. Dumbass suggesting how in future traveling for healthcare makes perfect sense. Health tourism - yes! And oh what a black eye it will give to this exceptional (sad) country.

But we aim first to care for our health and to not require the help of hospitals etc. for as long as possible.

We are planning on spending much or most of our time outside of the US soon and have done the research on just how great and inexpensive the health care is outside these prison walls - er, borders.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 23:25 | 4176256 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

You have not done enough research. We are seeing a dramatic rise in multi drug resistant bacteria due to this. The countries providing "cheap" medical care use antibiotics inappropriately and these bugs are now traveling the world. Some will not be killed by ANY known antibiotics. They are lethal. We microbiologists were screaming from the roof tops 20 years ago about MRSA and we were ignored, including by the CDC ( your government at work). I have already seen terrible post op infections due to medical tourism and guess where they end up, back in the USA for treatment. I myself would never do this being on the front lines and seeing what I have seen. At least investigate infection rates of the locale you are traveling to and not simply evaluating It by cost and a shiny brochure.

Miffed;-)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:12 | 4177775 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

Why would you assume that we would just go into some bacterial soup kitchen of a facility for procedures?

There are already expats abroad who have done the research and are diseminating their findings.

My wife is a medical professional with years of practice and I have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours researching time-tested modalities for healthful living and illness prevention and cure over the years.

My aim is to never enter a hospital but it is unlikely that I will be able to avoid this before my ultimate demise. I refuse antibiotics in most cases and avoid animal foods laced with them. 

You do not know what research I have done.

Thanks

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:20 | 4176076 Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

Sunset law.  X number of years and it goes in the shredder. And page limits: three single spaced, max...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 17:46 | 4175181 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Even the Kool-Aid drinkers are thinking about repealing Obamacare...

I think this failed law is a good opportunity to recall, impeach, and start arresting lawmakers for gross negligence, fraud, lies, and the rape of the American people.

Let it begin here and now.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:17 | 4176016 Nostradumbass
Nostradumbass's picture

re: TeamDepends:

"Just dessert for the CA progressives who voted for this shit!  For the rest of you, it was time to leave several years ago."


Believe me, The wife and I are making plans to GTFO ASAP! We've been watching this shit spiral down for years and it looks like the bowl is about to be flushed with the productive members of this society going down first. We are fortunate being at the very ends of our working lives with hopefully sufficient means to live out our days after exiting that world very soon. It is certainly more difficult for those who have young families and need to support them whilst caught up in the mess here. Maybe some of us who get out sooner can get something started in the places we land that may provide jobs for fellow ship-jumpers? Or at least we can welcome fellow escapees from the hell that is USA.gov. 

My advice to younger people? Save every penny, spending nothing you absolutely don't need to spend and put your money and efforts into an exit strategy. Wear out your clothes. Drive an old car and replace it with another old car. Eat at home. Avoid coffee shops etc. Ditch the cable and satellite and read books, play board games and talk with people. Find ways to make money from hobbies and from your wit. Downsize everything until you feel you can breathe more freely. It is amazing how good one feels as the accumulated trappings of life are let go! Plant a garden of vegetables and herbs. 

Get all assets safely (as much as one can in this economic prison complex) away from the kleptocracy.

Get funny money converted to better funny money and hard assets OUTSIDE the US borders ASAP.

Get residency started elsewhere.

Prepare to renounce US citizenship...

 

 

 

 

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:17 | 4174091 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Pelosi is such a cunt-extraordinaire that it is sickening.

But, of course, amazing how she just keeps getting re-elected...must be her love for NSA. 

 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:39 | 4174579 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

And the ones in Congress who actually voted for this chit.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:19 | 4174097 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Therein lies the problem, no pun intended.  A law passed using fraud and not fully vetted.  How can the supreme court uphold something that was passed under false pretenses?  Something passed using fraud is unlawful.  In addition, those committing the fraud should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law under fraud or RICO statutes.  Or in this case, IMPEACHED!  Every last one who are on record that perpetuated the fraud.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:40 | 4174224 andrewp111
andrewp111's picture

Pretenses are irrelevant with legislation. All that matters is that it passed the House and Senate and was signed by the President. Lies and excuses and all other considerations are in purely the realm of politics.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:50 | 4174283 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Or up to the citizens to ignore the law and challenge it in court.  More people need to learn about jury nullification!  Citizens have a power to neutralize bad laws.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:10 | 4174405 pods
pods's picture

Yep, but officers of the court are not allowed to speak about that. And that includes YOUR lawyer.

pods

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:19 | 4174466 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Sounds like more game rigging in their favor.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:40 | 4174584 odatruf
odatruf's picture

And there is no jury at the SCOTUS.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:00 | 4174716 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

We already know they've been coopted by the system.  They're no longer the gatekeeper for America's freedoms.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:32 | 4174869 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

They were never intended for the gatekeepers, and have an absolutely terrible track record in that area since the beginning in any event.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:31 | 4174863 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

Heh.

Not to mention Jerry Brown and Steinberg just rammed a min wage hike down our throats here in Cali AT THE SAME TIME the new ACA costs go into effect!!!

Holy shit!

This ship is going down!

Yep.

I'm an employer too.  Have 115 employees. 

This is a death sentence.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 05:18 | 4176656 IndyPat
IndyPat's picture

Shitcan every single motherfucking one....liquidate....retire.
It's the right thing to do.
Tough love. It ain't about latex and whips.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 19:30 | 4175468 drdolittle
drdolittle's picture

Some animals are more equal than others.

Roll the guillotines.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 21:58 | 4176009 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

My answers to the Supreme's incomprehensible decision is "naked photos". First, about half the Supremes can be reliably counted on to support government in anything it wants to do, especially if a leftist is in charge. They are typical leftist enablers skillfully worked into office. As for Roberts, his babbling efforts to contradict everthing said by the Obama administration (tax versus fees and supporting Congress) was so incoherent that I assume they had nude photos of him doing something illegal or embarassing. I also believe that they had and used them on a majority of the Democrats in Congress to pass the original bill illegally.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 22:54 | 4176175 phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

Judge Roberts has epilepsy, a hereditary disease.  He and his wife decided to forgo having children but wanted to adopt.  His young son and daughter are apparently of Irish parents and - against strict Irish law - were adopted through a Latin American country (Costa Rica?).

A few weeks before the decision was announced, Justice Kagan made a visit to the White House.  Shortly thereafter, the (presumably negative) decision was hastily changed and Justice Roberts, as is his perogative, wrote the brief justifying Obamacare in what has been described as exceedingly curious legal foundations.

This is part and parcel of what NSA-type surveillience can enable as NSA whistle blower Russ Tice futilely tried to warn about long before Snowden.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:24 | 4174138 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

I guess that's how she "learned" about the waterboarding briefings which she attended but miraculously did not recall.  Unt-kay.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:30 | 4174173 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

When Pelosi gazes into a mirror she no doubt fails to perceive the supremely self-absorbed jackass staring back at her.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:22 | 4174487 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Vampires don't have reflections.

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:09 | 4174033 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Welcome to KOMRADECARE...

Nothing to do with health much now is it???

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:14 | 4174067 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Auto-enrollement in SNAP?  Anyone still think Cloward-Piven is not the game here?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 14:56 | 4174314 kralizec
kralizec's picture

I have a game too, it's called "Fuck it!"...

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 15:23 | 4174485 rlouis
rlouis's picture

I was in the Post Office before it opened and was using one of the self-check postage machines.  EBT cards can be used to buy postage. 

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:25 | 4174841 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

And is there a market for stamps?

Wed, 11/20/2013 - 16:54 | 4174973 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Nailed-it!

 

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