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China Fires Shot Across Petrodollar Bow: Shanghai Futures Exchange May Price Crude Oil Futures In Yuan

Tyler Durden's picture


With the US shale revolution set to make America the largest exporter of crude, however briefly, the influence of Saudi oil is rapidly declining. This has been felt most recently in the cold shoulder the US gave Saudi Arabia and Qatar first over the Syrian debacle, and subsequently in its overtures to break the ice with Iran over the stern objections of Israel and the Saudi lobby (for a good example of this the most recent soundbites by Prince bin Talal ). But despite the shifting commodity winds and the superficial political jawboning, the reality is that nothing threatens the US dollar's hegemony in what many claim is the biggest pillar of the currency's reserve status - the petrodollar, which literally makes the USD the only currency in which energy-strapped countries can transact in to purchase energy. This may be changing soon following news that the Shanghai Futures Exchange could price its crude oil futures contract in yuan, its chairman said on Thursday, adding that the bourse is speeding up preparatory work to secure regulatory approvals.

 In doing so China is effectively lobbing the first shot across the bow of the Petrodollar system, and more importantly, the key support of the USD in the international arena.

This would be in keeping with China's strategy to import about 100 tons of gross gold each and every month, in addition to however much gold it produces internally, in what many have also seen as a preparation for a gold-backed currency, which however would require a far broader acceptance of the renminbi in the international arena and most importantly, its intermediation in a crude pricing loop. It is precisely the latter that China is starting to focus on.

Reuters reports:

China, which overtook the United States as the world's top oil importer in September, hopes the contract will become a benchmark in Asia and has said it would allow foreign investors to trade in the contract without setting up a local subsidiary.


"China is the only country in the world that is a major crude producer, consumer and a big importer. It has all the necessary conditions to establish a successful crude oil futures contract," Yang Maijun, SHFE chairman, said at an industry conference.


Yang's presentation slides at the conference stated that the draft proposal is for the contract to be denominated in yuan and use the type of medium sour crude that China most commonly imports.

It is hardly panic time yet: Reuters adds that industry participants with direct knowledge of the plan have said the contract would be priced in the yuan, otherwise known as the Renminbi, and the U.S. dollar. However, one can argue that the CNY-pricing is for now a test to gauge acceptance of the Chinese currency, and will take on increasingly more prominence as more and more countries, first in Asia and then everywhere else, opt for the CNY-denomination and in the process boost the Renminbi to ever greater parity with the USD.

Here are the punchlines:

"The yuan has become more international and more recognised by the financial market," Chen Bo, Chinese trading firm Unipec's executive general manager, told Reuters.


"I don't think it would be unacceptable for the world to use the renminbi for commodities trading."

Certainly not, although it would also entail a depegging the CNY from the USD, something which China is for now unable and unwilling to do. Because once the Yuan is freely priced, kiss all those Wal-Mart "99 cent" deals goodbye. 

Which in retrospect may be just what the US wants: a very gradual and controlled dephasing of the USD's reserve currency status. Recall that what the Fed wants at any cost is inflation which has so far failed to materialize at the level demanded by the Chair(wo)man thanks in part to cheap Chinese goods and ongoing US exporting of inflation to China. So if that means a spike in the prices of China imports - so key to keeping US inflation in check - so be it. Because we can already see the Fed's thinking on the matter - certainly it will be able to always restore the USD's supreme status in "15 minutes" or less when it so chooses.

Of course, by then China, and the Petroyuan, may have a very different view on the world.


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Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:31 | 4176814 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

...It Could be time for a "Neutral" World Currency Reserve. The Canadian "Loonie". ...No pun intended.
Certainly Western Canada w/ a plethora of Natural Resources, just 12.5 million citizens as it is strategically located between Asia and the USSA...kinda like a Switzerland.
Would make Vancouver the World's next Financial and Cultural Capital.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:39 | 4176828 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

Nothing new, India already does that on the MCX (in Rupees)

BTW, To the Americans, British and the French, your cultures are pretty sick.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:43 | 4176847 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

USD Collapse On The Horizon...
Afterwhich GOLD Manip Over AND $50K /OZS.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:44 | 4176850 Stuart
Stuart's picture

the price miners charge for physical needs to break free from paper driven manipulated prices.  For that to happen, executive management of the gold mining companies need to stop acting like beaten cowards and stand firm to set their own prices.  Sell what you need to keep lights on and stockpile the rest like Rob McEwen used to do.    

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:22 | 4176962 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Fires "another" shot across the bow.

It will only get more interesting from here.

Notice how things have really begun to accelerate?


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:40 | 4177039 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Indeed.  Exchanging one fiat for another, accomplishes nothing.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:46 | 4177068 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

I almost stopped reading at the comment about the US will become the largest oil exporter. After finishing the article, I wish I would have gone with my gut.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:29 | 4177539 NIHILIST CIPHER

Inflationary for Amurika. When petrodollars rush back to US prices will reflect their arrival. 

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 01:25 | 4180295 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Possible, but unlikely....

When the bond market goes, a lot of those dollars will evaporate...

They don't exist as stacks of Benjamins...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:28 | 4176986 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

The big problem is, permits, environmental concerns, hostile government foreign OR domestic, insures these mining concerns take the paper pushers money.

Mining is a tough expensive buisness

One day they will all be driven to bankruptcy

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:32 | 4177005 sagerxx
sagerxx's picture

"One day, they will all be nationalized."


Viva -- Sager

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 19:29 | 4179257 Obese-Redneck
Obese-Redneck's picture

Stock up on xxxxxxl strtetch pants now bitches!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:16 | 4176919 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Begun the currency wars have, fucked America is!

Think I'll buy more PMs while this fiat still holds some apparent value for some...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:27 | 4176987 YC2
YC2's picture

So are recent high gas prices more of a convergence with the prices in the EU reflecting non-reserve currency pricing?  Just spitballin...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:39 | 4177313 scrappy
Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:43 | 4176848 Stuart
Stuart's picture

That did it.  Time for the US to go after China now..

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:56 | 4176882 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Indeed and you will have a good indicator of when that process would start in ernest:

"it would also entail a depegging the CNY from the USD, something which China is for now unable and unwilling to do."

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:45 | 4176854 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture's a short story about India:

My daughter has a friend who is doing a "semester abroad" in India.  One of her tweets the other night went something like this:  "These people do not have toilets.  There is shit everywhere.  Who doesn't have toilets?"

So, my culture may be sick, but I can take a shit without going outdoors.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:59 | 4176891 new game
new game's picture

humans = indians too; ps you are just as fucked up culture, only in different ways.

humans are fucked up species destined to extinction. think indians will survive 100 cels. or -100 cels.

you are just another fucking think you are superior bigot...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:04 | 4176900 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

For now, the time is coming when all your plumbers will be hooked on crack

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:15 | 4176932 new game
new game's picture

hey, you are probably a preety decent person face to face. most people are.

so, really, power is transitory. if india rules the next 200 years than someone would be making the same remarks in reverse...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:20 | 4176958 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

"if india rules the next 200 years"

lol, good one.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:19 | 4176941 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Your days are numbered. You and your disgusting people will be the new energy source for strongest military force in the world.

Get ready to be melted. Hopefully our catalytic converters will mask the smell of curry.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:23 | 4176970 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

LOL coming from america-the nation of reprehensible homosexuals

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:24 | 4177862 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Wow this comment thread turned to garbage in a hurry.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:23 | 4176968 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Yes, but my point was that our plumbers have already done their jobs.

You caste system is your downfall.  Allow all of your people to be free, and you could take over the world.  But you are so backward it will never happen.  And India regularly gets into it with China.  Land Wars in Asia are always such a good idea.

And you kill each other over religion.  There is some culture for ya.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:31 | 4177001 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

Great points you raise Oddball.

When you think about the caste you realize why it worked for 2000 years? Do you even know the characteristics of the Caste System? Do you know the rationale behind it? Or are you so dumb as to dismiss it as something crappy just because your liberal teachers tell you to?

If you really want to be enlightened about the caste system, give me your email address so we may communicate.


You call us backward? You have your daughters being taught how to act like strippers, your culture teaches every little girl to be a whore, and you call us backward? ?


Hindus dont, never have and never will kill anyone over religion, I think you refer to another religion.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:36 | 4177019 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You could not answer my simple question the other day. I asked you what happens when these women that you "worship" attempt to leave the kitchen and become a doctor or have a career. So since you went ad hominem and punted my question I assume that to mean that the Caste system in your country means that when women attempt to go out on their own they end up wearing a cast.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:45 | 4177060 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

You need patience to understand the extremely advanced culture and customs of ancient india.


Women by nature, are created to bear children, to give love to their husbands, and this is where they find the most fulfilment. Now nowhere in the 100s of scriptures in Hinduism is there a absolute prohibition against women doing what they want. You see, hinduism is not a cult, its a culture, a way of life, a guide. The scripture say what should be done for a better and more fulfilling societal life for every member of society. We dont prohibit anything. But we shun those who dont follow the scriptures, But we never "kill" the non believers as some recent cults that call themselves religion have done in the last 2000 years. Hindus have never been aggressors. Think why!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:53 | 4177105 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Can you elaborate on "shun"?


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:59 | 4177134 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

Ask an Amishman...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:07 | 4177164 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

Exactly! I believe,the Amish Culture is the closest westerners can get to Traditional Hinduism. Wonderful Wise people theyr are, the Amish

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:51 | 4177656 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

I cannot believe 7 people ticked you up. You deleting your cache and clicking yourself up over and over?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:57 | 4177120 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

We only have red dots on our foreheads when we have a kill team on our case.

Not sure what that says about either culture...


I think it may be a wash.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:11 | 4177173 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

"Hindus have never been aggressors. Think why!"

It's easier to be a coward. You are a lazy culture full of scams and scum. No innovations and you tax the world that we all live in with too many births of future scum.

A harvest moon is near.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:22 | 4177223 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

"""It's easier to be a coward. You are a lazy culture full of scams and scum.""" LOL, i bet you havent fought an Indian yet. Scams are everywhere. But atleast we condemn such scams. Not like you AMericans. You morons have legalized Bribery and given it the name "Campaign Contributions, Lobbying" LOL

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:25 | 4177242 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

" LOL, i bet you havent fought an Indian yet. "

As stated, you are cowards, passive, afraid to engage. Too busy petting your cows and sleeping in their feces.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:37 | 4177299 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

You really cant understand, can you? Let me give you an example closer to home. You think the amish dont fight because they are cowards? You think dogs bark at everyone because they are brave? What do you call a dog who bites everyone he can ? A Mad Dog, right? What do the Americans do? Fight everyone around the world. Everyone!! Why do you? Whats wrong? Not happy in your homes? Is it because your women are so immoral that they sleep with all your friends and your plumbers and your mechanics, that being so frustrated, you wage wars on indegenous cultures?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:39 | 4177314 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

Why bother? He's dumb or trolling.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:43 | 4177605 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

He's someone who can't stop being an animal.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:46 | 4177353 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

You have some cow feces in your hair.

Cowards, with your welfare mentality, you can't even create enough jobs inside your country to support your people. STOP BREEDING YOUR FILTH already!


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:47 | 4177354 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

You have some cow feces in your hair.

Cowards, with your welfare mentality, you can't even create enough jobs inside your country to support your people. STOP BREEDING YOUR FILTH already!


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:45 | 4177347 scrappy
Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:50 | 4177636 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Which 9 cretins ticked you up? The only people who are glad for the scriptures of Hinduism are the Brahmin. Yes for them it worked, for the other 90% it has been 2500 years of tyranny. Silly Thuggee.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 18:22 | 4179090 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The Age of Kali Yuga too shall pass!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:49 | 4177926 jtb14
jtb14's picture

I am sure many sikh people do not share your sentiment about hindu's not killing anyone. Operation Blue Star, Operation Shudi Karan to name a few. I assume  your definition of not killing anyone over religion does not include an attempted systmatic genocide that led the Hindu government to the steps of that religoin's holiest shrine in order to kill Sikhism's "a religion" most recognized leaders. 

The Indian Forces also began a program of "shudhee karan", which was a code name for the rape of Sikh women. They joked that the offspring of their rapes would change the genetic makeup of the Sikh community and they would kill the Resistance in this way. Many rape victims took their own lives, unable to live with the ongoing humiliation at the hands of the Indian police.

Its is very clear see the policy of the RSS Hindutva behind these operations."

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:02 | 4178070 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture


Depends on the definition of "free" Doesn't it?

Are the people we've been wiping off the face of the earth the last 12 years free in the real "living in the World" sense?  Long as freedom applies to you at the end of your own gun and 'not' the people you're killing for there resources -Right?

Just remember who sent those jobs "Goldsmith's" way 20 years ago, and why we pushed our way to the front of the line after 9/11 because we gave it all away out of choice with no resistance by the people in this Country and opted to use the last option (well almost) our Reserve Currency status to compensate for those like China and India who prefer to use money vs. bombs.

Just Sayin

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:31 | 4176998 Hulk
Hulk's picture

LOL, plumbers, crack,

ts a real fucking problem over here...

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 14:00 | 4181460 stant
stant's picture

No they are dying off and not being replaced because thier kids are hooked on crack or the bs they are to special to be plumbers electricians etc

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:13 | 4176929 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Most European cities,  such as Paris and London,  were in the same situation back in 17th century.  Guess modernity takes some time in India. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:56 | 4177986 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

It also helps if you have a lot of excess water laying around that you can shit and piss into...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:26 | 4176978 Osmium
Osmium's picture

There is shit everywhere.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 14:17 | 4181558 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

They had toilets in the concentrations camps too.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:36 | 4177017 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

As if you dont have pedophiles and rapists in your own countries!

There's a big difference between patriarchy and misogyny, which unfortunately, the liberals and their shallow thinking brains cannot comprehend

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 18:25 | 4179099 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Which are you in favor of?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:15 | 4176936 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

We imported our sickness from the Brahmin degenerates' caste system.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:38 | 4177027 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

Really? Have you read Ayn Rand? The Philosophy of Ayn Rand and of the Caste System is the same!!!!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:54 | 4177113 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

WOW..., and here I was all these years thinking they were just the opposite.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:24 | 4177237 Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

I guess you were decieved by the interpretors. Your sources on Caste System were liberal Americans, right?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:47 | 4177623 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

My sources on the caste system are multifarious historians, including those from the communities of Dalit and Sikhs.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:50 | 4178304 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

"Your sources on Caste System were liberal Americans, right?"

Well..., you got me there.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:06 | 4178012 dryam
dryam's picture

"BTW, To the Americans, British and the French, your cultures are pretty sick."

Culture?  The U.S. has no real culture.  We are crumbling from the inside out, and as the economy erodes even further we will crumble from the outside in.  In general Americans are the fattest, laziest, dumbest, most entitled, most elitest, spoiled, most self-involved, and most racist (black > white > hispanic > asian) group of people on this earth. 


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:45 | 4177617 666
666's picture

The sooner the US$ loses its status as the world's reserve currency, the sooner America will hit rock bottom and start to grow in a proper direction.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:27 | 4176815 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

NOW this could be interesting...........time for some NUKES

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:31 | 4176826 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Indeed...invade this, bitches!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:37 | 4176837 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Tis a little thorny.....cause China is a lot bigger than Iraq.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:38 | 4176841 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

their other warning shot was off california a few years ago, so that idea is off the table. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:50 | 4176865 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

China would fade the USA. A nation of mostly men vs. A nation of Queens.... 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:27 | 4176982 Blano
Blano's picture

I still think about that one.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:44 | 4177054 pods
pods's picture

I rememeber watching that raw video the night it happened.  Then a couple days later it became a jet coming at you on the horizon.

Every time I see a jet at sunset I laugh.  Open and honest government? lol


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:52 | 4177097 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

  Wait...that was just trickery of light and a 747 right? That is what the smart people on CNN told me along with President O...and we all know he would never lie to his beloved subjects.

For anyone not familiar:

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:14 | 4177476 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

The launch is probably the best recent example of the effectiveness of the Big Lie technique.

Repeat it often enough, never change the narrative, and months and years later, most of the population will believe the lie and disbelieve the hard evidence.

There are WMD's in Iraq.  We will never monitize our debt. Saddam was partially responsible for 911.   Our best friend is Israel.  The Federal Reserve System is here to help the economy. Sound as a dollar.  Good as Gold.

Well, at least one of these is true.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:48 | 4176859 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Trying to invade China would be like that movie Starship Troopers.  They are fighting hordes of these bugs, coming at them in wave after wave...because, you know, they are bugs.

I've seen that movie a dozen times.  And the thing that always struck me is that these guys need bigger guns, or bullets or something.  Those little M16 things just ain't cuttin' down the bugs.

That is what invading china would be like.  We need bigger bullets.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:02 | 4176897 DLux
DLux's picture

With a huge population like China, biological warfare would be much more effective. The densely populated cities would be easy pickings....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:25 | 4176973 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

That is a funny thought.  Do you know how many cities in China that you have never heard of that have populations of over a milllion people.

The thought of fighting China is just silly.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:00 | 4177140 Dr. Bonzo
Dr. Bonzo's picture

Off topic... funny you referenced Starship Troopers in this context. In the original Heinlein juvenile that was published in 2-parts--in '59 if I recall correctly--the bugs were basically a metaphore for the commie Chinese. So we come full circle with the loose reference to the movie loosely based on the book, as a reference to a hypothetical China war scenario. Funny.

The movie blew chunks incidentally. I'm speaking as a die-hard Heinlein fan. Paul Verhoeven made no bones about the fact he really didn't read the original source material very thoroughly, completely misintepreted Heinlein's original premise and decided to do a spoof of the book. Oh, and those large plastic piece-of-shit molded props that are so fucktarded they didn't bother to conceptualize sights can hardly be referred to as M-16s my friend. Don't even get me started on the rest of Verhoeven's portrayal of "battle," some random mob with sight-less plastic laser somethings scrambling around like headless chickens going pew pew pew. Read the book. At least Heinlein took time to carefully hypothesize on infantry tactics in power armor.

Just one man's opinion.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:25 | 4177240 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

I haven't read "Stormtroopers" since I was an adolescent. Perhaps I will pick it up the next time I have a long flight and give it a read with a more critical eye. I am also a big Heinlein fan. I thought the Foundation series was amazing. 


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:25 | 4177522 Proofreder
Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:28 | 4177537 drexlraw
drexlraw's picture

foudation series written by a. asimov.. ;)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:36 | 4177297 Joe A
Joe A's picture

That movie directed by Paul Verhoeven takes a big piss at America and how it 'evolved' into a fascist state: "want to know more?".

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:33 | 4177010 steelrules
steelrules's picture

To put it in perspective Canada 9,971,000 sq. Km/ China 9,601,000 sq. Km/ US 9,364,000 sq Km.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:28 | 4176817 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

As an American, I'm short FRNs and all associated instruments, long PMs, Bitcoin, chocolate, nylons, cigarettes and hooch.

Godspeed, SFE!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:44 | 4176851 unrulian
unrulian's picture


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:50 | 4176861 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Nylons, chocolate bars, Pall Malls and Lucky Greens.

Its a WWII thang...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:59 | 4176889 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

By this time next year, toilet paper will literally be worth more than FRNs.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:33 | 4177009 ZippyDooDah
ZippyDooDah's picture

Time to go old school.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:03 | 4177152 Disenchanted
Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:32 | 4177554 NO SOLICITING

Who isn't short FRN's?

Guess the TBTF banksters. 

Sure haven't seen any of all this money being printed go into said pockets.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:28 | 4176818 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

China is already the biggest economy in the world.


If they unpegged Yuan tonight then tomorrow Chinese GDP would be larger than US GDP.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:30 | 4176824 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

which is needed if they are just going to write off uncle sams debts.  

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:34 | 4176830 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

...and which will work fo them just fine, thank you very much.  The CIA calculates China's GDP on something it calls "purchasing power parity" but who knows how close it is really.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:35 | 4176834 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

they were never honest on how much gold they really have

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:33 | 4176827 achmachat
achmachat's picture

if they unpegged Yuan tonight, you wouldn't be able to afford your "made in china" goods anymore, not to mention Crude Oil priced in Yuan... 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:25 | 4176974 iLiquid
iLiquid's picture

The Chinese are increasingly willing to shop for the Made-in-China goods in America and import them back to China for consumption.  This is because the same stuff sells in China at a much higher price than in the US.  The price distortion is so large that with transportation and customs costs deduced this arbitrage still makes sense for a lot of goods.  Why the Chinese cannot afford their own Made-in-China stuff like Americans do is one of the most profound mysteries of Chinese economy.  It is generally assumed to be the result of taxatin policy, lack of domestic market efficiency, high economic rent and corruption.

However, looking at the big picture I think it all boils down to the lack of CNY convertibility.  Should CNY be fully convertible, in principle this arbitrage would bring the price disparity down, rendering itself unprofitable.  However, under the current monetary regulation regime, not all Chinese has access to US dollars and international settlement facilities.  An ordinary Chinese citizen can only buy USD up to the $50,000/yr quota.  They can only do this via state-authorized market makers who charge a hefty spread for the USDCNY pair.

As employment and consumption tanks in the US and elsewhere, the Chinese gov. places its bet in its long-surpressed domestic consumption.  The ultimate goal I believe is to redirect the export-led producers inward, boost domestic consumption, taper the excessive liquidity, and then hike and float the Yuan.  Then the CNY will soar without hurting the multitude of producers, meanwhile China will be able to import cheaper natural resources.

Then again, with the Chinese "middle class" already being deprived in its burgeoning phase, the massive wealth inequality even worse than the US, the complete lack of industrial standard, the utter non-existence of anything remotely resembling industrial creativity, the environment thoroughly devastated, the sense of despair and apathy rampant... it is left for you to judge whether the Chinese is willing to spend MOAR on their own Cheap Shit.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:57 | 4177919 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Great post.  This reminds me why I originally got hooked on ZH, not because of people arguing over whose turds smell better.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:28 | 4176820 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

dummm da dum dum dump

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:29 | 4176822 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

The Chinese must be anti-Semites !!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:14 | 4176892 DLux
DLux's picture

Nah, they love the Jews -->

The Rothschilds have moved on though (now that they have drunk the milkshake of the US --> They are anti-US, and I'm guessing they always were.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:22 | 4177226 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

When taking over a country you must be able to blend in with the crowd, as in the US. The melting pot is the perfect landscape.

Juice cannot do that in China. They are spotted right away, their tricks and scams are known well by a 1000+ year old culture.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:32 | 4176829 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

meaningless. they don't allow their currency outside the country. oh snap, neither does the usa. /sarc.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:36 | 4176836 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

yeah i am feeling it, but is this just a tease?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:38 | 4176840 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

It is like foreshadowing in a horror story.  The teenagers look outside into the night rain.  Lightning flashes.  There is a naked man in a hockey mask with a machette in the yard.  Next lightning flash, he is gone.  But really, he is in the basement now.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:51 | 4176869 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Dont Pick up the phone !!!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:04 | 4176903 new game
new game's picture

start shooting thru the floor, nothing alittle terror won't settle...

freedie come up for some pudding!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:30 | 4176994 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The foreshadowing and testing of the oil futures waters was the Iron Ore futures market in China, because of China's position as THE largest consumer against a much more effective producer cartel than OPEC/USMIC.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:35 | 4176835 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Interesting week for the dollar:

US Dollar And Gold - PBOC Says No Longer in China’s Interest to Increase Reserves

  We are following the groundbreaking changers coming out of China after The 3rd Plenum and PBOC drops another shell-bomb on the US Dollar today. We are witnessing the end of US Dollar as the Reserve Currency of Choice now. Who will be buying all these US Treasuries after that? How can FED Taper now? We can be assured about much higher interest rates with very far reaching implications for the economy and the U.S. fiscal budget.   Timing of this release is very interesting - just yesterday Gold was killed after the release of FOMC minutes. We are entering the new dramatic stage of the Currency Wars, when China picks the old Austrian economics truth - strong currency means strong country. How long Gold Smashing can keep it down with COMEX running on fumes and record high leverage?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:45 | 4176853 semperfi
semperfi's picture

china could, if they want, buy up every OZ of comex gold, stand for delivery, and make it default - any day they want - so the smashing will continue as long as it benefits china

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:19 | 4176949 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Whos the idiot that down voted this?

The Chinese couldn't crash comex at their whim?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:20 | 4176954 g speed
g speed's picture

I think you need to view the issue as a collusion rather than a confrontation.  Nixons trip--the end of Viet Nam conflict--gold standard end--transfer of technology --setting up markets for merchantile economy--most favored ----balance of payments work around---offshoring --- multinational proliferation--   just saying.  And now the same central gov't control in both countries----spying --billionares--low wages-- and the most telling is the us against them narrative same as Repubs and Dems-- both the same I tell ya----both working together for the same end. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:37 | 4177028 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:00 | 4177423 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

Some footage of Kissinger visiting Mao in 1973. Just for posting. Bush the Elder can also be seen:

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:58 | 4176888 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Interesting indeed..

Well done Washington, how greed, lack of vision and plain old inbred stupidity brought down a nation, (citizenry of the peoples republic of Americare this includes you as well)

Evolution suppressed = tuff times ahead folks, in the meantime get your wallets out and pay the monthly government tithe, and keep it going just a little longer...

Ck out the newChinese paper products..

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:07 | 4176910 new game
new game's picture

fumes to 1187.90 next stop... that could be the bottom, but not sure yet. need an event to put a floor in this BEAR situation. just sayin...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:27 | 4176981 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

You mean like a deal on Iran....and then an attack by Israel?  Something like that?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:38 | 4176838 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I expect this will be bearish for gold.  Everything else seems to be so why not this.  Every day is opposite day for gold.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:41 | 4176845 semperfi
semperfi's picture

you are confusing computer bits for gold - there has been no "gold" sold at the comex - just bits - bit dumping - bit buying - its all just a computer/video game that will stop when the chinese pull the plug

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:55 | 4176880 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

That's the theory I've been operating on, but who thought they could have kept it going this long?  Sure not me.  Makes me wonder if the timeline for collapse is decades, not months or years.   

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:11 | 4176925 new game
new game's picture

follow the technicals, next stop 1187.90. like clock work.

an event will be the turn around. 

treasuries above 3 or ??

i don't have that answer.

black swan shit...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:17 | 4176942 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

How do you chart a rigged market? 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:20 | 4176952 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

With only two gold contracts stopped for delivery for the entire month of November so far, it definitely seems something is up.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:56 | 4177993 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

The Chinese also know that Obamacare is ravaging and will end up annihilating our economy, meaning moar CTRL+P and more importing of USD inflation for them.  

A Chinese official was quoted as saying, "Fuck that noise, round eye!"

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:38 | 4176839 samsara
samsara's picture

"With the US shale revolution set to make America the largest exporter of crude..."

Playing loose with the facts?   We might export a little bit of distillates, but looking to be the largest exporter of crude? 


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:50 | 4177086 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Mistakes like this this sort of destroy any credibility the author might have...

File the piece under F for fluff

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:42 | 4176842 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Anyone know who the chinese Kissinger is?

Doing what the US did in the 50s?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:39 | 4176843 semperfi
semperfi's picture

"may" price it in yuan? 

what are the chances that they'll have a change of heart and price it in $US ?

It will soon be confirmed that the China+Russia military is really strong enough to thwart US military.  The preview was Syria, and we see who didn't get their way on that one. 


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:06 | 4176906 Zadig
Zadig's picture

The Vietnamese, Lebanese, Somalis, Iraqis, and Afghans have already proven strong enough to thwart the US military.

To be fair, you probably mean "their" missiles can blow up "our" toys, which is something that would actually concern the junta.  Losing guerrilla wars certainly doesn't seem to bother them. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:42 | 4176846 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

China will use all the gold they've bought to back the yuan.  It will replace the USD as the new world reserve currency... you can bet on it. 


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:44 | 4176849 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

I think that they just want to be at the table.  I don't think that they want to cook.  That is a lot of work

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:47 | 4176857 unrulian
unrulian's picture

They are sharpening their knives...they definately want to cook

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:51 | 4176868 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

they cook with gold, we cook with empty promise shit,   they want a new menu

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:52 | 4176873 semperfi
semperfi's picture

no - they want out of the $prison cell they've been in for decades, getting ass-raped by american-bubba every day - and when they escape, they are going to want some payback

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:15 | 4176935 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

If I were to guess, they want to be part of the basket of fiat currencies that make up the SDR.  Gold goes toward buying that legitimacy.  The thinking is that they be one of 4-6 currencies that make up the mix.

I am not sure they want to be the only one, just one of many.  All central banksters are the same they want their Fiats to manipulate and to use inflation to fund their governments.  I see no reason why China's would be any different

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:48 | 4176858 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Oh nooz. The anti-asianites(juice) are going to come out of the woodwork.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:50 | 4176862 yogibear
yogibear's picture

The Federal Reseve and Obama are loosing their reserve currency status advantage.

Both the government and the Federal Reserve are running out of time.

About the only way to defeat the US is economically. The Federal Reserve was the enabler of this destruction  by encouraging socialism through ever-increasing of borrowing and debt.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 09:53 | 4176874 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Hey Osama did it from a cave. Just imagine What the Chinese can do. 



Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:07 | 4176912 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

If he had anything to do with it, he had lots of high tech help.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:56 | 4178048 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

... and he never left that cave.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:50 | 4177647 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

Loose - like a rope, not taut, around your neck

Lose - to misplace, fail to keep


Loser, you are.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:55 | 4178032 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

"loose" is correct.


The Federal Reserve and Obama are setting their reserve currency status advantage loose.

Loosers they are.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:09 | 4176917 youngman
youngman's picture

And they just announced they do not want to add to their reserves anymore....they said they don´t need it no more buying UST´s....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:10 | 4176922 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

We need a stealth replacement. israel will start buying on Monday.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:36 | 4177296 Ignorance is bliss
Ignorance is bliss's picture

Japan and Britain will buy the USTs. Our wagons are all hitched together. 



Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:14 | 4177472 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

With what?  Fed reserves?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:30 | 4176988 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Any physical oil involved or is it just paper. i.e. cash settlement?

There is your answer...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:30 | 4176996 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

"In doing so China is effectively lobbing the first shot across the bow of the Petrodollar system". This is hardly the first shot. Deals with other countries have been made to trade oil in their own currencies. Seems like this is a step by step process to mimimize the shock. With gold low, all the more reason to keep stackin'.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:44 | 4177058 semperfi
semperfi's picture

death by 1000 swaps

chinese water torture

these dudes are very patient

the avg american has the attention span of a 15 second tv commercial, if that

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:34 | 4177014 vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

So when Jeb Bush gets elected in 2016 does that mean we invade China.


He has to carry on the family dynasty.


He must invade somebody.

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