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Drugs, Assassinations And Now: College Tuition - The Bitcoin Adoption Spreads

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While the last few days' hearings have focused on the nefarious aspects of the crypto-currency, it would appear that the adoption of Bitcoin is growing in the broad market place. While drugs, assassinations, and money-laundering are the headline-grabbing reasons why this unregulated asset is under the US (and European) government's eye, from ATMs, Subway (sandwich shops), and online retailers, the appeal is growing... and now, as AP reports, Cyprus' largest university will start accepting the digital currency Bitcoin as an alternative way to pay tuition fees.

Via AP,

Cyprus' biggest private university says it will start accepting the digital currency Bitcoin as an alternative way to pay tuition fees.

 

University of Nicosia's Chief Financial Officer Christos Vlachos says the move will help foreign students in countries where traditional banking transactions are either difficult or costly to pay fees for programs such as online degrees.

 

The university claims it is the first in the world to take Bitcoin payments.

 

Vlachos told The Asssociated Press on Thursday that the university is also offering a new Masters' degree in digital currency, a field he says is the monetary equivalent of the Internet in its infancy.

 

He said the Cypriot government should set up a regulatory framework to attract digital currency trading companies and boost the bailed-out country's foundering economy.

 

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Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:54 | 4177106 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People who still think Bitcoin is "a ponzi" have obviously never looked into the downloading and spread of popular freeware.  It would be more correct to call Bitcoin a virus that will ultimately kill its host..... the dollar.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:04 | 4177154 Stuart
Stuart's picture

The world has gone fucking insane....  If you thought FIAT was backed by nothing, this is the epitome of FIAT. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:09 | 4177171 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You don't know what Fiat means then... (and no, not the car).

The silver certificate was a fiat currency btw.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:17 | 4177212 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

the future of education is being decided here

http://www.fgereport.org/about.html

the CIO of du pont

president of retirement fund (and former fed FOMC/BOG) http://www.fgereport.org/rsc/pdf/commission_bios/ferguson_bio.pdf 

IBM foundation head who devised a "corporate version of the peace corps"

BofA

battelle

educational testing service

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:08 | 4177449 CH1
CH1's picture

Now the Ruskies get into the market!

Bitcoin is becoming the Anti-dollar.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:11 | 4177458 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Which is what I have been saying CH1, and the implications of which are staggering and frightening.  As the Bitcoin gains mass it will become a black hole for nationalist currencies that will tear the fiat universe apart.

Taxation, money-laundering, compliance, declaration, KYC are all voluntary concepts now.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:34 | 4177566 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

I'm getting in.  I'm not certain it will survive, actually I doubt it will, but at a minimum it has .com written all over it.  Even if it doesn't survive, I think the $/BTC will go parabolic at some point before it crashes and burns.

I still don't understand much about it other than I can buy some via an exchange and then sell some via the same exchange.  Don't know anything about using it for purchases, transporting to another location, taking the 'currency' offline, etc.  I guess you might say I'm a dummy when it comes to Bitcoin.

Has the "Bitcoins For Dummys" book been published yet?  I need an advanced copy.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:58 | 4177698 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well even if a person just owns a few milliBitcoin, that's an awful lot comparatively.  Encrypt your wallet, do not forget the passphrase and make sure you have multiple back-ups of your wallet.dat stored in multiple, safe geographic locations.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:16 | 4177796 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Wish you well King, we really do.  We will be watching this one from the sidelines, at least for now.  Everything goes parabolic against the dollar, or any fiat currency, when its value moves towards zero.  Anyone who sees this post as being anti-bitcoin is seeing what they want to see however, as we wholeheartedly support anything that helps bring down the Squid.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:03 | 4178076 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

If you buy BTC make sure you take them off the server that you bought them at and transfer them to your wallet at home and print them out and keep them safe they are like cash

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:42 | 4178264 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Once I purchase, I may be back here asking how to do just that unless of course they explain this on their site.  I'm planning on using Coinbase.  Thanks.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 19:55 | 4179350 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

I appreciate your courage Silver. I held off getting in for years, got too busy, didn't think it would amount to much (I could buy socks..goat socks, really?).  Just started looking into it again and was amazed at how many companies you can trade with. Yea, Im getting in too. But if you're looking for absolute anonymiity forget it it. Seems like all brokers demand proof of address, photo ID- bank account #... before you will get accepted in. I put my request in a week ago and still waiting.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 20:27 | 4179443 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

LocalBitcoins.com cash transactions are about as anonymous as you'll be able to get (you'll probably pay a premium above the Coinbase price, however).

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 20:36 | 4179472 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Thanx. I'm still trying to figure Local BtCs out. Seems like you pay a huge premium for that privilege, and you still have to be registered with a brokerage-which demands ID.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:03 | 4177947 CPL
CPL's picture

Ummm, everyone BUT the Americans are in the market now.  Everyone else is interested in paying off their national debt and settling accounts.  If no one else is...too bad, it will be a real shame not having folks along for the ride.

At the current rate of consumer adoption and spread of generation...tick tock tick tock.  Oddly the exact same way everyone got a computer in their home and in every office around the world.  One foot in front of the other and...here you all are.  Welcome to the playground of the future.  Didn't guess for a minute 20 years ago that you've ever find a need for a pc.

Yet here you all are and I've heard all the same excuses to technology adoption.  Here's the underlying point.  Too bad.  It's coming eventually the medicine will be administered without sugar because no one will trade any for USD.  I hope this point is crystal clear.

  • Anger
  • Denial
  • Bargaining
  • Depression
  • Acceptance

I've walked people through these steps so often in technology adoption, it could be considered a second career in addition to building stuff.  Let's see where you all are by Dec 21st.  I have patience as long as the clock offers because as a good PM that's what I do, and I'd really like to see most everyone on the other side of that line of step five or the shifting of gears will only leave you all behind.

To throw the daily dose of zen in here.  When the stream meets the mountain, it just goes around it.  Eventually it'll turn the mountain to sand and wash it to the sea.  All the time in the world...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:38 | 4177303 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Bitcoin is FIAT gone to the technological and logic extreme.

You might as well make MAGIC THE GATHERING cards currency.  At least you have great fantasy art and a playable game after the inevitable collapse of its currency status if that were to happen.

Also....for Christ's sake.....the Cypriots' ???  We're gauging the legitimacy of a bonafide fake currency mania by it's adoption of the Greeks ? !!!

LOL !!!  

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:42 | 4177334 odatruf
odatruf's picture

I agree that this being done iin Cyprus is harmful rather than helpful.  It reinforces the idea that bitcoin is a laundering scheme and that it is being used by Russian and other foreign mobsters.

At least the criminals at the FED are from the good ole USA.

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:13 | 4177471 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You think the criminals at the FED are from USA?  Think harder.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:17 | 4177802 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

All I need to know junior is that you want to be another kind of banker..

Fuck off and die parasite.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:48 | 4178010 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You "metals only" guys like to talk tough about ending the Fed and shit.  The truth is you're scared of Bitcoin because you perceive that it may indeed be the real deal and so you turn into a bunch of pussy little bitches.

"OMG, who is going to pay for the roads?  What will happen to my medicaid?"  Hahahaha....

So just sit back and watch the Bitcoin community do the real heavy fighting while you hide out.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:44 | 4177982 CPL
CPL's picture

No they aren't, take off that mask and go die in a fire.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:49 | 4178015 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I hate it when fakes use that mask.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:24 | 4178177 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

That's funny coming from someone wearing a green mask

....and dreds.

LOL !!

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:53 | 4178320 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

It is strange and a bit unnerving how certain bitcoin fanatics will use threats of thinly-veiled violence and/or shunning if you don't immediately get on your knees and bow down to their God of Technology.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 15:11 | 4178429 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well thankfully nobody really cares what you do.  You didn't question the technology behind online-banking, money-orders, anti-counterfeiting technology, etc, etc.  You gladly accepted Federal Reserve Notes because you saw other people doing it.  So it will be the same with Bitcoin and virtual currencies.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:06 | 4177443 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You don't understand the factors at play here, apparently.  First, magic the Gathering cards can be printed in any amount.  Bitcoin can not.  it is NOT a fiat currency.  It isn't cheap or free to create a bitcoin.  Secondly, the reason it is being accepted in Cyprus is because of the currency controls in place there.  Bitcoin bypasses them in an instant, like they aren't even there.  THAT is the strength of bitcoin.

Unlike some others, I don't think BTC will become a world reserve currency or anything silly like that, but rather that it will become a currency that is used to bypass systems of control imposed by governments.  It will get more valuable as governments become more repressive (economically).

I'm long financial repression.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:20 | 4177505 dasein211
dasein211's picture

You're absolutely right. All currency are just public agreements to use that item as a medium of exchange. It's usually criminal/licentious elements that decide which way we go with what technology. VHS vs beta- porn industry decided. Ak-47- war criminals decided. Art, music, food, politics- these things were all at societies fringes at one time and as they became more mainstream they gained value. No difference here.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:57 | 4177693 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Bitcoin was created by little geek boys on a computer with a fancy algorithm which gives their little geek dicks a thrill that they were able to pull it off.

Better still, they convinced a shit load of stupid people around the world that this is a get rich scheme, a way around "The Man", that it somehow gives you some sort of freedom, etc. etc.

It's Techno-Tulip Mania.....and it will die like all manias do.  If it doesn't get regulated to death first by TPTB . And you know they want their cut and will get it.

But play on geek boys.....play on.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:42 | 4177969 SheepHerder
SheepHerder's picture

I agree.  I was very excited about Bitcoin at first until I started thinking about how the intelligence community generally operates.  It would be nothing short of beautiful to convince the world to accept a global currency under the ruse of a currency revolution.  It's like how everyone jumped on all these social networks only to learn years later that the goverment is building dossiers on all the citizens.  Not to mention most great technological innovations come out of the Intelligence and Defense sector.  

And in reality Bitcoin sucks.  

If it is accepted as a global currency, anyone who doesn't have a computer, smartphone, I-pad, etc. is screwed.  And what better way to control people than to have the same device (computer, phone, etc.) the NSA uses to track your every move also tied to your Bitcoin bank account.  

It's a trap.  

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 15:58 | 4178620 CH1
CH1's picture

No sale. BTC can be used anonymously, and is used anonymously every day.

The NSA is not God.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 22:00 | 4195714 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

NO SALE.
BTC is fully exposed, non-anonymous, which has been repeatedly proven.
Every BTC transaction is traceable to IP addresses & time-frames by snooping the networks & they are ALL SNOOPED ALL THE TIME.
Every ISP not on the NSA grid is put in PRISON. The owners in PRISON. Fired. Gone. Plenty of incentive to go along.
ONE email provider, Lavabit, wouldn't go along. Answer: go to jail or shut down.
He shut down the email provider company as his ONLY avenue to NOT be in prison.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:58 | 4195707 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

and a NASTY one.
It makes it very expensive just to be allowed to USE money, for say, FOOD.
you can be instantly robbed of all ability to get food, water, shelter, just by making a person homeless so there's no grid. Maybe the grid isn't down but YOU'RE not on it - you're bankrupt, broke, maybe in jail, who knows.
No digi-cash for the homeless, no magic cash machines, no food.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:08 | 4177452 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You sound like another "metals only" crew member that doesn't understand what they are talking about.  If you want anyone to take you seriously in your personal or professional life perhaps you should spend ten minutes researching the most basic terminology as it pertains to you and your world view?

Bitcoin is not a fiat currency.  The Federal Reserve Note and the treasury's silver certificate are examples of fiat currencies.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:03 | 4177732 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Fuck metals too.

Shiny molecules that some fuck-wit human one day said....."GRAH....ooga booga.....snort...thhhhpttt"  (Roughly translated....OOOOOoo....pretty shiny thing)

And then when the other cave man thought he was being left out and beat the other to death and stole his shiny little rock....the third cave man thought to himself......."OOGATY> BOOOOGITY YABBA DABBA DOO "

(Roughly translated......"I need to dig all that shit up before Grok gets back from showing is friend his shiny little rock....then I will own ALL rocks and they will have to bring me meat to eat to get shiny rock.)

9 times our of 10 Bitcoins are being sold for fiat currency.  Bitcoin is just another scam and a means to get into Fiat currency exchange just like Banksters.

Bitcoin.....now you can be a banker just by letting your GPU make currency from nothing like the big boys.

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:09 | 4177456 CH1
CH1's picture

Bitcoin is FIAT gone to the technological and logic extreme.

Instead of displaying your ignorance, you might try LEARNING SOMETHING.

Just a wild thought.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:06 | 4177739 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Your avatar says everything I need to know about your evolved state.....and what you think you know about Bitcoin.

Jeezus....Bitcoin is all the proof anyone needs to understand that we are NOT evolving but DE-volving.

The new idoitocracy will be funded by Bitcoin.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:11 | 4178118 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Leaps and bounds further along the evolutionary chain than yours, baghead.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 22:32 | 4179804 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

less than 2 BTC for an OZ of gold..  and closing in fast

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:55 | 4195698 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

all the more reason to do it now.
If you wait soon it will be 50,000 btc per oz of gold then 5,000,000.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:18 | 4177215 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Your definition of "backed" needs updating.

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:30 | 4177264 fonestar
fonestar's picture

That, plus something being backed implies trust.  Do you have the time of day to audit your bank's gold reserves once a month or even once a year?

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:53 | 4195694 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

wrong. Backed implies value that can't be negated by any level of trust or mistrust.
Silver doesn't work chemically based on trust.
Gold doesn't resist corrosion based on trust.
Morphine doesn't work as medicine based on trust.
A currency backed by gold, silver, morphine, hammers or toilet paper would be based on the opposite of trust - it would be based on physical properties which are IMMUNE to loss of trust.
That is real backing.
You're using the OPPOSITE of the definition.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:15 | 4177473 CH1
CH1's picture

Your definition of "backed" needs updating.

No! Yours does!

Bitcoin is backed by significant expenditures in labor, machines and electricity. It is also backed by the iron laws of mathematics. And, by a redundant network that is more powerful than the world's top 500 supercomputers.

So, yeah, it's backed.

LEARN!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:26 | 4177524 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Learn to read before replying

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:50 | 4195686 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

LEARN, YOURSELF.
Backing can't EVER be cost.
It must be RETURN value - NOT ever COST.
It can cost a quadrillion dollars and 10 barrels of oil to recover 1 oz of gold at one mine  but a lower cost at another mine.
Neither one is BACKING. Gold ITSELF has uses no matter the cost to get it and THAT is the value.
BTC could cost 1 joule or 10 MEGAJoules to mine ONE. Doesn't matter.
That is not backing, it is COST.
The BACKING of bitcoin is the solid tangible goods you can RECOVER from btc, never the cost.
And that backing is NOTHING.

The  network also is NOT REDUNDANT.

The use of Internet BY bitcoin ruins this: it requires the ENTIRE network to be operational at all times instead of SUB-NETS. Once a majority of the network is down or taken over in an attack against bitcoin then BTC is RUINED FOREVER. DESTROYED.

This is an iron law MORE POWERFUL than the open-source of bitcoin. It is irrevocable.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:01 | 4177428 tmosley
tmosley's picture

People don't seem to get that the reason fiat currencies fail is NOT because they are backed by nothing but rather it is because they are over-issued by governments and central banks hungry to steal from those who hold thier paper.  BTC can't be printed, and there is a limited amount that can be mined, and it is HARD to mine.  Further, unlike fiat currencies, BTC is not anyone's liability.  It exists in your wallet, period.  It isn't an entry on someone's balance sheet.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:09 | 4177453 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Finally, someone states it !!!

Only thing I could add is the method of creation of bitcoins is defined in open source code.   It can be read, assuming that you are a techie.  It cannot be changed without anyone knowing it, it is open source.

Does the FED give you that assurance?  Are they reducing, keeping the same or increasing the amount of FRN this month?  Next?  Everything they have said on the matter has been wrong.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:46 | 4195667 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You don't get it.
A fiat currency that is backed by nothing is bad BECAUSE it's backed by nothing. It happens to be we're FORCED to use it.
A currency backed by nothing which we CHOOSE to use is not less damaging: it's merely we can blame only ourselves.
The damage is what matters.
The finger-pointing is NOT what matters.

BTC is ALL liability. It has no value intrinsically so the ONLY value possible is GIVEN by another person as debt repayment FOR an intangible BTC of questionable value at any given moment.
This is a leger entry. Every btc wallet is a series of leger entries & nothing else of potentially ZERO value in total.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:09 | 4177165 SMG
SMG's picture

So do you think bitcoin is poised to become the new global currency?

I do have some questions though:

What if someone leaks the encryption key  (which I'm sure will never happen because when it comes to money everyone is always so honest) or a quantum computer breaks the encryption?  How would that play out if it happens?

What's to stop local govenerments from passing laws making it illegal to accept bitcoins into you account?  What happens if they start treaing bitcoin like say child porn?

Since the currency is backed by computers solving math problems (mining), and it is totally digital, what happens if the computers break, like say in an EMP or a hack attack.  Or say China or Russia wakes up one day, decides they have had enough of US imperialism and launches nukes.   How would I get my money?

Could I store my bitcoin wallet on a memory chip implanted in my skin?  That sounds cool.

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:17 | 4177205 fonestar
fonestar's picture

That's a lot of questions, some valid concerns and others not really.  P2P protocols are the most difficult to regulate by governments and they have done extremely poorly at stopping Bittorrent which is similar to Bitcoin.  They could try and ban the use of Bitcoin but how that would affect its value or adoption is anyone's guess.  There's risks and rewards associated with everything we do.  I would advise just doing some reading on Bitcoin and reach your own conclusions.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:39 | 4195649 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

p2p protocols are INCREDIBLY easy to regulate. It's simple: make every router illegal, fine every ISP, that doesn't filter them out.
The technology,  hardware & software, exists today just like normal QoS & firewalls. It's only a matter of making it FORCED.
Just like demanding ISP's detect child porn & SHUTTING THEM DOWN if they fail to locate proven child porn.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:17 | 4177206 pirea
pirea's picture

don't do this. they are going to take your skin and cash your bitcoin

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:16 | 4177484 CH1
CH1's picture

don't do this. they are going to take your skin

Same song since 2009.

You know this because.... because you just do!

Good theory of knowledge there.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:26 | 4177248 The_Passenger
The_Passenger's picture

Haven't researched the bitcoin mining system but I think no one knows the solution to the math problems computers are solving, it should be something analog to calculating big prime numbers for example. So that should not be of anyones concern, and even IF, well then you double the monetary base once (from like 10 million BTC to 21 BTC which is the max), but never again. At the speed of money printing central banks will double the monetary base EVERY two years or so!

 

To the EMP question I have a counter question: what do you think will happen to the USD if computers go down in the whole country? Except the few "real" paper dollars out there you will not be able to access your dollars in your accounts / brokerage accounts or what so ever either.

 

Gold might be the only left to use in that case.

 

About the encryption thing: banks also wire the money with some kind of encryption. How this actually works without real problems is actually a mystery to me, but that somehow works out good too so why not with BTC?

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:32 | 4195630 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

wire vs storage: wiring money isn't storage. Once the funds are stored the wire encryption can be hacked & it means nothing. The transaction is gone & a fake duplicate wouldn't be accepted regardless, the funds at both ends have already moved.
wire snooping: the banks will gladly hand over their unencrypted copies of records to governments.
bitcoin storage: computers with btc are far more susceptible to intercept & attack than banking computers.
EMP: should COUNT on it which is why storing food, gold, silver, spare parts, medicine, etc., is top priority. BTC will be useless just as today in the Philipines NO ONE is using btc to buy their way out of disaster. They CAN'T. No network. Grid down.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:23 | 4177855 aerojet
aerojet's picture

The essence of a clever scam is to create the appearance of propriety.  Just because you don't understand how the scam might be pulled off doesn't truly mean there is not a scam taking place.  The important aspect of a Ponzi is you have to rope in the investors.  Then, once you get that done, you keep the thing moving until you can't get enough new investors, which is where the scam begins to falter.  At that point, you cash out and make your getaway.  The best Ponzi is the one that is capable of pulling in enough people worldwide to make it scale as massively as possible before the originator slams the trap shut.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 20:33 | 4179465 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Your argument isn't germain to BtC. Even if no new people traded their fiats for Btcs, there would still be a market for the existing BtC, even if the prices deflated somewhat because of miner addage, it would be largely offset by hard disks failing, people dying (with their keys) and those that just forgot about them.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 21:28 | 4195616 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

YOUR COUNTER-argument is not germain. Since more fiats will be exchanged than mining OR goods trading, this will push btc into ponzi territory & already has.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:42 | 4195458 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

NOTHING in common.
Free software's value is in the knowledge of making it & the low cost of using it.
Bitcoin's DAMAGE is in the loss in selling it in fiat for LESS fiat than what you started with AND in having no reversibility in transactions AND in having INCREASINGLY costly means of producing additional bitcoins.
This forms a DUAL ponzi.
Ponzi #1 is in trading bitcoins in a pump'n'dump. This is absolutely proven in the chart drops of prices.
Ponzi #2 is in the exponentially rising cost of equipment to mine bitcoins. Suckers keep selling older equipment to people who have no hope of keeping up so they get nothing for something.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:48 | 4177284 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

J P Morgan, Home of "Tungsten" filled Bitcoin

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:31 | 4177002 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

This is how we finance the revolution, comrades.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:34 | 4177016 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

With OPM and hopium.  Think we've got our slogan, Iggy!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:36 | 4177021 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Let it be, as it always has been.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:58 | 4177132 fonestar
fonestar's picture

....by ignoring the establishment.  Their laws, their biases, their rules, their media, their culture, their money, all of it.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:46 | 4177352 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

".....by ignoring the establishment.  Their laws, their biases, their rules, their media, their culture, their money, all ot it."

JEEZUS.....please do shut the fuck up junior.

You haven't ignored ANYTHING !!!

You pay with their money.  You pay taxes with their money.  You pay with their money for your car tag, your insurance, you payroll tax, your healthcare, your income tax, your payroll tax, your property tax, taxes on any and all your electronic communications.

You don't ignore their media......otherwise....how else do you know they suck so bad?

You play by their rules....both in the corporate world, their law enforcement world, etc.

Just go back to mining your bit coins with your triple SLI Geforce TITAN GPU's or your Crossfired AMD RADEONS in between World of Warcraft games and your fantasies about being against the establishment.  It's been tried before shit head in the 60's and it failed then....it will fail now.

 

 

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:20 | 4177494 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Hey moron, did you hippies dancing around a fire in the 60's think it would really accomplish anything?  Did you have the means to launch an independent, floating currency?  No, I didn't think so...

Plus I have never played WOW or anything like that in my life.  So STFU you freaking idiot or better yet, do everyone a favour and go die somewhere.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:13 | 4177777 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Oh yeah, buddy.   World history is LITTERED with entire cultures much less individuals who believed this time it will be different.

But you were too stoned to attend history class .....so it's no surprised you don't know shit about it.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:28 | 4177896 aerojet
aerojet's picture

At least the hippies tried to de-couple from the system.  Bitcoin looks to me like a clever scam designed for the Millenial generation which has been conditioned to pay real money for perceived value--think about it.  You get a game on your iPad and the game includes unlocks that you have to pay for with real dollars.  Those unlocks are just code--worthless code that you could write yourself!  But people do this.  They pay for these in-game unlocks and in-game goods that equate to nothingness in reality.  It amazes me.  What is a Bitcoin, really?  A big number that has had artificial meaning ascribed to it.  It's a scam.  I'm not arguing that fiat currency, or statisically pure collections of elements (gold, silver) aren't also a scam, but Bitcoin has certainly jumped humanity into a realm of assumed value that only a particular group of people can appreciate.  Hence my contention that it is a very clever scam.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:41 | 4177965 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Gold and silver's value is perceived as well.  Unless you believe their is something different about its atomic structure that gives it magical properties different than any other element.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:09 | 4178106 Silver Pullet
Silver Pullet's picture

Silver does have magical properties that other elements don't have. Gold, not so much, other than you could use it in electronics if you don't have any silver.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 20:40 | 4179496 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Silver also has medicinal properties & benefits.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:37 | 4195436 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

GOLD & silver CLEARLY have specific combinations of properties no other element has.
That's the nature of ALL elements but gold's rarity, silver's rarity & those qualities including that gold can't be decayed, rusted or corroded by almost anything in nature is incredibly handy. The fact that silver itself acts as an antibiotic which can't ever be met with evolved resistance also gives it incredible intrinsic, non-faith based value.
Life itself needs to evolve so that a) humans / mammals are poisoned by silver or b) diseases are NOT poisoned by silver,  before silver can lose that intrinsic value.

You clearly have no idea what real value is. it is 0% faith.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:19 | 4177497 CH1
CH1's picture

JEEZUS.....please do shut the fuck up junior.

"Junior" actually knows something. You are spouting ignorance and insult.

LEARN SOMETHING... if you dare.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:23 | 4177516 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If people want to conform to some false narrative (ie, that only young people are computer literate) let them.  They can suffer the consequences.  I am not even young anymore anyway.  If you take things to their logical conclusions, and Bitcoin is the real deal, the dangers regarding Bitcoin is to not own some Bitcoin.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:10 | 4177767 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

You fucking techies are the new Cro-Mags......

OOOoo   Ooooooo    me like pretty algorithms......me like digital Bit thingy....shiny.....all mine.....

I can just see you throwing up in the air a Taco Bell burrito and a phatty like the ape man from 2001: A Space Odessey before you monolith CPU once you "create" a Bitcoin.

Worthless waste of time and creative effort.

You Bitcoiners are the worst of parasites.  Money from nothing and the porn (forget real chicks) for free.

LOL !!!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:28 | 4177891 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Good luck selling your money-orders, bank transfers, snail mail and PayPal schemes to genX, Y and Z.  If you don't like tech now you may just want to off yourself now because things are going to speed up even more.

Can you hack it?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:37 | 4178236 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

I love tech...stoner Bit boy.

Been hacking since 1978.

Did a little phone phreaking in the day.

And....LOL !!!  HAHAHAHAH......WWOOooohaaHAAAHAAHA ....ooooaLOL !!!!  Gen X, Y, and Z !!!!   Sons and daughters and grandson and daughters of the Baby Boomer Hippies!!!!!  What's so fucking special about them.  They were some of the ones who gave us the Great Depression 2.0 with their Dark Pool, Rehypothecating, MBS Bundling, HFT spewing on 1,000 chained together Nividia GPU's on custom made blade servers getting a micro-second look ahead at trades just to shave 1/4 of 1/2 penny off each transaction ALL THE FUCKING LIVE LONG DAY !!!

So many naive virgins......about to be slaughtered on the altar of cynicism and apathy as they age and realize that in the end.....they haven't really changed shit that really matters.

" DING " !!!    HOT POCKETS !   No?  Oh look.....I got me another Bitcoin mined......YAY ME !!!!  I SUPER TECHNO SPECIAL !!!!     LOL !!!!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 15:54 | 4178611 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Rant on like a real reject.  I'd stick to hacking those two-wire systems if I were you.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 18:07 | 4179060 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Where do you think the cumulative knowledge that eventually morphed into the ability to write an algorithm to mine a Bitcoin came from asshat?

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:25 | 4195394 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

but k@nt w3 pr1nt ... I mean m1n3 maor l33t welfs?

no?

whocould-inode?

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:18 | 4195372 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I like better tech than what you have.
I can just assign a gpg-signed message to each gold coin I have & that's a better currency than bitcoin. MUCH more limited in total supply.

Can you hack it? Yes: just make a botnet and have them linked to bank accounts trading bitcoin. Random-walk on volatility with a tendency to drive down price until finally people capitulate & a majority are bought. Done.

Bitcoin now is destroyed & controlled by a rogue party.

Also set up exchanges & vacuum them up. Promise delivery for fiat then erase accounts for ALL and go away with all the fiat & btc.

Done.

BTC destroyed.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:33 | 4177914 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Those people aren't techies, they have been led to believe they are technically savvy--that's another aspect to ripping someone off.  Otherwise intelligent people get ripped off all the time using this same technique.  You're very smart, you thus think you can spot the scam, but if the scam plays to that belief, you are blinded to it.  Really smart people get ripped off all the time because they believe they can't be taken by some dumbshit two-bit asshole.  It's not true, of course.

Truly technically and mathematically capable people are in vanishingly short supply.  If you can't spot the mark, then you are the mark.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 15:03 | 4178386 frenzic
frenzic's picture

yup led to believe

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:14 | 4195361 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What you are calling an "insult" is actually 100% core wisdom. You are the one in need of learning.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:33 | 4177008 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Cyprus, bitcoin, bail-in, casino.  Compare and contrast.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:37 | 4177024 6th of May
6th of May's picture

They take Bitcoin... - a good idea - and regulate it...yearning for big investment companies

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:11 | 4177185 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well that very well may be their plan, but I am banking on the fact that the technology and global economy can both grow faster and outpace any attempts to stop it or regulate it.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:38 | 4177025 One And Only
One And Only's picture

 

How many people in the world? How many bitcoins available?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:41 | 4177040 Spigot
Spigot's picture

7 billion and growing, 12 million and growing, but growing is slowing since we are in the knee of the discovery curve.

Your point well taken.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:58 | 4177125 johny2
johny2's picture

Is bitcoin going to be around in 100 years time?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:12 | 4177188 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Will you?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:12 | 4177464 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

That's clever.  Wealth is never passed to descendants, and this is especially certain if you measure your wealth with ephemeral increments. 

What is at the core of the debate is the definition of "wealth". 

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:13 | 4195358 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

descendants will. A primary purpose of good money is to store it for descendants rather than large tangibles that are hard to carry, hard to guard & easy to steal.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:22 | 4177506 CH1
CH1's picture

Is bitcoin going to be around in 100 years time?

Ah, the desperate search for a "gotcha" slogan to kill Bitcoin.

Keep trying... unless you're ready to do something sensible, like LEARNING SOMETHING.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:12 | 4195356 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I learned your refusal to answer is your admission that NO, in 100 years there will be no bitcoin.
That means it's garbage.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:33 | 4177922 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Sure, but so will reel-to-reel tape drives and beanie babies.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:10 | 4195354 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no. Gold & silver will be but certainly not dollars,  yen or bitcoin.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:02 | 4177143 Stackers
Stackers's picture

12 million in current circulation.

21 million is max that can ever be created

The allotment is halved every 4 years

The better and faster computer become the harder the code gets to break and earn a coin

The purpose built ASCI bit coin miners (a chip made to do one thing and one thing only) are coming out now and selling for 150-400% of new for a used one.

 

You used to be able to mine with standard PC graphics cards, the new purpose built machines cost thousands and 6-9 month waits for new have pushed the code difficulty beyond their reach now.

 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:37 | 4177942 aerojet
aerojet's picture

And to all that I say, so what?  It's all very impressive, but really so what?

What if, tomorrow, someone comes out with a quantum computer that lays waste to all those time estimates and can just mine all the remaining Bitcoins all at once?  Is that even important?  Is the perceived time to completion of mining activities somehow important?  I think it is just a clever distraction, quite frankly. 

Also, what if that same quantum computer renders the encryption algorithm worthless?  Does that factor in to your perceived value of these things as scarce and un-reproducible? 

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:09 | 4195345 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

invalid question. The number of people is not the driver of the number of trades.
the number of trades, purchases, is the proper correlation to the size of a money supply.
That being said, BTC doesn't correlate with either because it's the bubble-drive to pump-n-dump them with fiat-exchange servers / accounts that is pushing the btc market, almost nothing for actual goods or services.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:38 | 4177031 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"There is another option for investors who are looking to put their money into a form of currency that cannot be devalued: precious metals. Just as with bitcoins, there is a limited supply available on the planet and it takes years to set up a mine to bring new supply online. Precious metals have the same exact scarcity feature with one important difference; they have real tangible physical form. They exist.

I believe that before this decade is over the silver chart is going to take the form of the bitcoin chart above. The first silver blast off to $50 was the opening act (just as with bitcoin) and the main event is still coming. The fact that everyone around the world would line up to buy an artificial currency at $450 only strengthens my belief that someone out there would want to purchase a physical silver coin (which has represented real money for thousands of years) for $20.

Will I buy some bitcoins if they cross $1,000? Unfortunately, no. I will continue to buy boring physical silver coins at $20 (and hopefully much lower if prices fall) that everyone hates. I enjoy watching the bitcoin story, because as I mentioned before, it could end up being the greatest speculative bubble in world history before it completely collapses."

http://www.ftense.com/2013/11/bitcoins-go-parabolic-time-to-buy-or.html

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:07 | 4177166 dryam
dryam's picture

Silver is below $20 which is well below the cost of production. They can play all the games they want with the price in the short run, but the long term price will follow directly from the input price (mainly energy) & scarcity (mines will have to go deeper & deeper,etc.).

Silver is only a good long term investment for those with a long time horizon.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:06 | 4195338 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

silver does help drive a short-term return, however, with AGQ.
On massive rises agq calls will do very well. 2015 jan & 2016 jan around the 25-strike now look good.
I already have 33 & 35 strikes for calls in 2015.
Sadly the actual bullion seems to have not returned from that bumpy boat ride.
Not a ripple in the water & yet ... capsize. Whocouldaknowed.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:41 | 4177332 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Money.  I really like precious metals and have for a long time.  But if I want to actually participate in an economy, what do I use?  PMs? No.  I use trash fiat cash or credit cards and online I use Paypal and credit cards.  Bitcoin has trash fiat dead center in its cross hairs.  PMs, at worst, might come under some friendly fire but should hold up ok, in my opinion.  

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:38 | 4177034 Spigot
Spigot's picture

There is one thing this University has learned and that is that having their "money" in bank accounts, and being fucked over by their government repeatedly, is not supportive of their operations. After they reviewed all the alternatives, they found that BTC was a worthy alternative to being raped again. Hmmm ...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:42 | 4177035 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

I have an online store hidden deep in the onion. In that store you can buy any degree that you want from MD to JD all signed and validated by Mr. Vlachos for 10 BTC's.

Real degrees. No Bullshit. Real. 10 BTC. Be a lawyer tomorrow.

Over.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/The-Dark-Web-232606871.html

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:43 | 4177050 Spigot
Spigot's picture

hahahaha ... Maybe I would give you 0.1 BTC

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:45 | 4177062 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

No bro, can't do it. 10 BTC. They are real and you can call the university, your name will be in their database as a graduate.

Dot-Indians do it all day, then they go to America and make big money bro.

Over.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:48 | 4177078 Spigot
Spigot's picture

I am making more money in watching my BTC profits just by buying them and holding them then buy exchanging them for your forged paper.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:53 | 4177102 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

My new motto;

exchange in peer-to-peer crypto currency

save in physical PMs

The liabilities are still present on earth so I will still remain long sharecropping and black markets just the same.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:55 | 4177116 Spigot
Spigot's picture

LoP, perfect strategy IMO. You have to be positioned according to need as well as want :-)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:54 | 4177392 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I believe that's what he's doing: Hedging with share-cropping and goods.
Having a General Store then is a "two-for": a cashflow business and prepper reserve.

ALL of these things take out the mass and velocity from fiat. :-)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:24 | 4177863 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

More importantly this approach will eliminate useless paper-pushing middlemen and make the exchange of goods and services more efficient.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 20:00 | 4195320 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

mass AND velocity?
O EM GEE
You found the Fiat's FIBB'S BOSON!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:30 | 4177518 CH1
CH1's picture

My new motto; exchange in peer-to-peer crypto currency, save in physical PMs, The liabilities are still present on earth so I will still remain long sharecropping and black markets just the same.

Wow, a sensible post on BTC!

Thanks!

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 19:56 | 4195302 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

can't. Prices can double in a day mapped back to tangible goods or the intangible yet critical resource known as 'time'.
That's hyperinflationary.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:54 | 4177109 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

They are not forged bro. Use your BTC while you can. Soon the value will drop back down to $25usd:1BTC and this degree will cost you 280 BTC.

Buy now, and I mean right now because just last night BTC's were at $480usd:1BTC.

That shit fluctuates like crazy man. Anyhow it's best to buy your degree early in the morning. K??

Over.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:00 | 4177123 Spigot
Spigot's picture

You are a fuck-tard, but a relatively entertaining fuck-tard. If you where in my personal presence I would slam your head onto the concrete floor for being such an ass.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:03 | 4177148 Running On Bing...
Running On Bingo Fuel's picture

Anytime bro, if you enjoy that kind of pain like I do then we'll go round and round.

Over.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 19:17 | 4195220 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Even with the drop from 900 to 500? What's next, drop  to 200? Still making profit then?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:40 | 4177037 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

here is a question for the pro bitcoin crowd, coming from the gold crowd who is still looking at bitcoin in confusion. I'm not busting balls here, just asking a question. Are the moves we have been seeing in bitcoin both up and down, representative of the actual market of buyers and sellers...or has the fed/nsa whatever etc. managed to find their way into the bitcoin marketplace and exert control within that market. Because the main appeal to me about bitcoin was that it supposedly was beyond that control.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:48 | 4177079 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Bitcoin is a free market. Its peer-to-peer, controlled by no one. You really have to spend some time and research it. I love gold, I love bitcoin. No reason not to have both.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:42 | 4177967 aerojet
aerojet's picture

You should read your history books about what happened with private money in the 16th and 17th centuries, and well, the 18th and 19th centuries, too, for that matter.  They all start out great.  They all end in tears.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 17:29 | 4178942 Col_Sanders
Col_Sanders's picture

I don't really give a shit one way or another about bitcoin...

But man - You and a couple other people on this site sure do have a hard-on for telling other people how they're going to fuck up their lives if they make decisions you don't like.

I imagine your great-great-great Grandmothers standing on the banks of the Mississippi River and telling people trying to cross and find a better life that they were all going to die for their stupidity.  Or your great-great Grandfather trying to stop the Wright Brothers from actually attempting to fly one of their "contraptions" that was surely going to kill them because every attempt by man to fly prior to theirs ended with death...

Don't you get tired of telling people that you know better than they do how they should run their lives?

Actually, you should run for political office - you'd fit right in.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 18:03 | 4195033 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

On the exchanges for fiat it's entirely controlled by those who print fiat & those who control the incoming account balances.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:49 | 4177085 daemon
daemon's picture

"Are the moves we have been seeing in bitcoin both up and down, representative of the actual market of buyers and sellers ... "

http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/13/bitcoins-vast-overvaluation-seems-to-be-...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:33 | 4177559 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

"http://falkvinge.net/2013/09/13/bitcoins-vast-overvaluation-seems-to-be-..."

Good read, thanks for posting - and Oh the irony:

"Bitcoin must survive.
That’s why I’m concerned over the irony of the net generation, which has spawned a number of anti-Wall-Street movements and sentiments, to see people in this generation intuitively picking up trading practices that carry on every bit of foul legacy that offline traders have practiced before the net generation. It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same." 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:08 | 4178097 daemon
daemon's picture

" It seems the more things change, the more they stay the same. "

Yes, there are things that never change, like "greed and fear"

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:53 | 4177103 Spigot
Spigot's picture

IMO this is a real market. It is very young and the vol you are seeing is due to the influx of new money, and new traders. The code has been inspected and is solid, so NSA etc can't get control of this. This is a speculative buy and hold situation. Treat it as nothing more. But the potential for astonishing profits for early adopters is very high. And even if you buy between here and $1000 you'll be an early adopter.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:28 | 4177536 CH1
CH1's picture

This is a speculative buy and hold situation. Treat it as nothing more.

Good post overall, Spigot, but I disagree here.

Bitcoin matters for FREEDOM. Profits are just a pleasant side-effect.

BTC is a stake through the hearts of the evil overlords. The more economic activity that moves through BTC, the less that moves through the slave system.And when the slave system contracts, it collapses.

Bitcoin is Freedom Tech, first and foremost.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:58 | 4178333 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

HAHHAHAH !!!!

We've had technology since the the rock was used to hammer an animal's skull in order to kill it and eat it.

We've got more MAGIC than all the world's culture's combined in ALL of world history.......and we are more enslaved than ever.

And Bitcoin is going to save the day.....with some ......( are you fucking kidding....you really said this ).......FREEDOM TECH !!!! ??????      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA    ROTFLMFAO  !!!!!

That line could be used in a SOUTH PARK episode or the sequel to TEAM AMERICA !!!     LOL !!!!!!

 

You fuckers REALLY are the new, 21st century Cro-Mags.    OOOooooo .....FIRE......ooga booga....it's MAGIC !!!

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 16:58 | 4194802 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

if I buy bitcoin for $900 and it goes to $90 (it will go to 50) I've lost a TON of freedom. My freedom is paid for with work-hours stored as dollars (not that I like it) and gold & silver.
Freedom absolutely has a price.
btc aren't priced in tangible goods & tangible goods can't be priced in a stable manner (200% up, 50% down! per WEEK) so that's a huge loss of freedom. Stability in pricing is part of freedom & destroying that stability destroys freedom.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:44 | 4177981 aerojet
aerojet's picture

You can't make such statements--"the code has been inspected."  Ha!  The code isn't what matters.  It may not have any backdoors, or maybe the backdoor is cleverly hidden.  Regardless, a technological innovation may render all the current assumptions void.  This is the real problem with it.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:42 | 4178266 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

"But the potential for astonishing profits for early adopters is very high."

HA !!!!    HAHAHAHA !!!!  LOL !!    WOOOOO HOOOO  AHAHAHAHH    ROTFLMAO !!!!

There ya go folks.  The top is in !!!!!

It's for SURE digital snake oil when you hear that shit above being used to entice people !! "

Now EVERY little person can be JAMIE FUCKING DIMON AND THE FED !!!

I guess it's good to have dreams and goals  !!!    LOL !!!!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 20:09 | 4179386 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Bwahahahaha!
That's why I'm 10100011000001111110 than you!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 20:08 | 4179383 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

nsa only needs control of the computer being used: keyboard, netword drivers, snoop the lines & voila. You lose everything yet no one actually brute-forced any ciphers.

Since some of use know how to use Linux & scour everything installed & compiled to ensure this doesn't happen it wouldn't hit us all.

Then again since some of us are smart enough to do so in the first place some of us are smart enough not to get suckered by bitcon at all.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:09 | 4177168 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

@Fonz

There are some real BTC whales out there and they looked at this as the last time to really manipulate the market.  New money will be flooding in the next few weeks/months/years and it will be too big for them to control afterwards.  

Here's what I think they did:  Hire a bunch of botnets (at huge expense) to DDOS take down as many exchanges as possible so they could focus their manipulation on 1 market: MtGox.  Put in a huge sell order near a top... thousands of coins that choked the MtGox trading engine.  The sheep take notice and stupidly throw in more coins bringing the price down $150 in less than 30 minutes.  Then the whales bought back in... and the price is already $80 above their manipulation start point.

This has happened before, repeatedly.  Nobody cares because Bitcoin is such a revolutionary idea and the general trend is up.  And nobody wants to be that guy to stand before Congress and say, "Please, Mr. Politician, pretty please regulate this market."

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:26 | 4177529 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I fail to see the revolution, for myself.  It is a mathematical cypher, and has the advantages of a mathematical cypher.  All codes are unbreakable until they aren't.  But the wallets are insecure in the cloud, that is proven. 

In this way, the bitcoin is no more effective at retaining a cypher then, say, my crafting a dining room table from fine oak and encoding critical information regarding a transaction with a known party as lengths and widths and spacings between the biscuit joints, and lengths of buried dowels and so forth.  As long as I do not allow access to my crafted table, no one knows the information it contains.  The comparison falls somewhat short, however, as no one could possibly know that was my intent when crafting the table unless I told them specifically. 

Wealthy men with great respect for discretion have been dealing with each other in this way for years.

Why you would ever traffic in goods with an anonymous party is beyond me, in fact it smacks of East Village Glory-Holing circa 1978.  Not that I know personally, but the point there is "don't worry who's on the other side of the hole".

The BTC people confuse complexity with profundity.  It's a math equation, however disseminated to the enth by the internet.  The high frequency of communication means its life cycle will be short.  It is and will ever be a sight to behold.  See it for what it is, though!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:40 | 4177587 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

If you can print with abandon, your ability to manipulate things you buy increases over those that cannot print money. 

This affects what you buy and what you sell (in this case after buying since I don't think that you can short bitcoins).  In other words, they would be able to increase volatility and therefore decrease impression of stability of bitcoins by buying on the way up and then Monkeyhammering it down and starting over again.

I would expect that this cannot be stopped since you cannot control your customers.

But hey, I think this is exactly what is happening in the PM markets, to a much larger degree, because the PM markets allow leveraged buying and selling of the paper unrelated to the underlying PM.  So I am a conspiracy nut to some...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:41 | 4177047 reload
reload's picture

These Bitcoins must be a bastard to accept as a vendor.

Your goods priced in fiat could turn out to have been sold for a 50% discount by the end of the day, or just as easily an extra 50% mark up.

When the vol normalises perhaps it will be great, but untill then a massive headache.

I admit, I missed the boat - thought about them a year ago and decided I preffered metalic money - mistake!

Fascinating times.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:46 | 4177069 Spigot
Spigot's picture

You sell at the fiat price and the conversion at current BTC rate is done automaticly. So, the customer is getting what they want at a known fiat price with BTC exchange done for them. And, yes, in this market BTC is being hoarded, so mainly the "BTC Accepted Here" option is not being used much right now. However, once the fiat/BTC exchange rate settles down, BTC will be used for more transactions.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:34 | 4177565 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I asked this on another thread, it was not answered.  Why would you ever exchange a bitcoin for anything as a buyer, when it's dollar price is increasing rapidly, however goods prices in dollars are not?  Why would you ever exchange a bitcoin for anything as a seller, when the price could plummet overnight, or in the next minute?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:48 | 4177076 6th of May
6th of May's picture

I know that feel bro

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:51 | 4177094 One And Only
One And Only's picture

With bitpay your transactions can be instantly converted into the dollars that have lost 98% of their value over the last hundred years.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:53 | 4177098 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

Not at all. A merchant can use bitpay. Bitpay will instantly convert the BTC recieved from the customer into the government fiat currency of the merchant's choice at the time of purchase. This concern was solved a long time ago. You should look into learn more about BTC. You may conclude as I have that BTC is sound money, and in some regards, superior to gold as sound money. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 10:50 | 4177091 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Okay, that's it.  I will now start working on providing a mechanism to purchase some of our farm product via bitcoin payment.  I'll pst links once this is done.  Should I run into any problems converting these bit to cash and then PMs, I will stop, but I think it's worth a shot now especially if it can be linked into a paypal account.  We already ship organic produce all over the world.

Again, all "experts" please reply with information/options for setting this up and I will pass it on to my programmer.

Thanks,

LOP

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 11:00 | 4177133 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Bitpay or coinbase. As soon as you post a link I will buy your organic produce just because you accept bitcoin (as long as it is shipped timely) I will buy from you again. (the subway in Allentown PA attracted customers from 3 hours away...just to buy a sandwich with bitcoin)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:25 | 4177843 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The difficulty seems to be in putting my bitcoin wallet on a RAID server behind serveral firewalls where it only comes online to accept payment (presumably the bits).  I want to host the actual website on another server entirely.  Has anyone done something like this already?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 21:28 | 4179636 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Do you mean a POS system? That is what I am going to set up. The order gets automatically transfered to Bitpay/Coinbase once they pay. The only thing that scares me somewhat is the volatility, but that can be overcome.

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