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Is Venezuela Selling Gold to Goldman Sachs?

Tyler Durden's picture


With gold once again getting the slamdown treatment this morning (even as stocks shrug off any taper tantrum fears) the following article from Venezuelan newspaper El Nacional seems quite prescient. As Liberty Blitzkrieg's Mike Krieger notes, it appears to imply that the struggling South American nation has agreed to sell or swap the gold it still holds overseas at the Bank of England to Goldman Sachs. Perhaps that helps explain where Maduro got the money for the Samsung deal...

Via Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

This is one of the major problems with gold. Despite what some may say, it is probably the most manipulated asset on the planet. Given the fact that so much of the gold is in the hands of sovereign nations and Central Banks that can be pressured by the U.S. empire, this is what happens. In fact, as I have said on many occasions, many of the Central Bank purchases we hear about do not consist of countries actually moving gold to within their borders, but rather just paper purchases. This does nothing to tighten supply/demand for gold. The main countries whose Central Banks actually appear to buy and deliver gold within their borders are China, Russia, Iran, and well, Venezuela. Until that changes, gold will be relatively easily manipulated, which is exactly why I support Bitcoin and why is taking off as it has.

From a sentiment perspective I think gold is buy, but personally I am waiting to see if we get one more major flush.

Here are excepts from the article courtesy of GATA. I believe it is a google translation and the actual sourced article in Spanish can be found here.

Venezuela’s Central Bank and Goldman Sachs are ready to sign an agreement to swap or exchange international gold reserves, with a start date in October, as stated in the contract, and until October 2020.


The negotiated amount, equivalent to 1.45 million ounces of gold, are deposited in the Bank of England and the transfers are made directly to Goldman Sachs once delivery times are stipulated.


The operation involves the delivery of gold from the central bank, which will receive dollars from the U.S. firm. The transactions are made through the creation of a financial instrument that is traded in the international market.


During the term of the instrument is an account called “margin,” in which the central bank agrees to deposit a larger amount of gold in the event that the price of gold falls or in which Goldman Sachs deposits a larger amount when gold increases. “At the expiration of the transaction the contributions are returned to their owners,” the document says.


There will be an adjustment to the asset value of 10 percent, to be used as a hedge in case the international market price falls, indicating that the U.S. bank takes care that if it produces a depreciation it will be covered and Venezuela would assume risk. The annual interest rate will be a combination of dollars with the call BBA Libor equivalent to 8 percent.


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Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:30 | 4177542 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Queue tragic car accident involving El Nacional editors in 5 4 3...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:40 | 4177593 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

What a FOOL! Don't wonder where conspiracies start from. This is how it happens. It APPEARS as if this guy was paid to destroy his own country. You know, like Obomber.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:44 | 4177614 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

The Fucking IDIOT Politicos Will Sell Everything Including Grandmas' China, Until There Is


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:47 | 4177626 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

"""The operation involves the delivery of gold from the central bank, which will receive dollars from the U.S. SACKS firm. The transactions are made through the creation of a financial instrument that is traded in the international market."""


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:40 | 4177960 TwoCats
TwoCats's picture

Wait a sec, this is around 1.8 Billion USD.  You mean when gold goes back up 50%, GS is going to have to pony up a 900 Million USD margin call?

That feels like a little taste of justice, somehow :-)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:07 | 4178656 hit_the_bid
hit_the_bid's picture

"You mean when gold goes back up 50%, GS is going to have to pony up a 900 Million USD margin call?"


er afaik no, goldman are buying it now, and selling it back to VZ in the future. in the meantime venezuela receive dollars plus interest.


no doubt its being rehypothecated by GS a hundred times over.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 01:07 | 4180260 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Or... here's the interesting thing.

If somehow gold keeps going down... VZ has to pony up more gold.

""During the term of the instrument is an account called “margin,” in which the central bank agrees to deposit a larger amount of gold in the event that the price of gold falls or in which Goldman Sachs deposits a larger amount when gold increases.""

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:50 | 4177635 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"It APPEARS as if this guy was paid to destroy his own country. You know, like Obomber."

Obomber is destroying Kenya?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:55 | 4177683 john39
john39's picture

if only.  sadly, obama's true father appears to be a communist pornographer from Chicago, Frank Davis.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:31 | 4177909 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

I have been trying to tell my fellow ZHers for years...

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:28 | 4178190 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Nah, that's a distraction.  All those claims that B.O. looks just like Marshall can be disproven by seeing a photo of his white grandpa when young.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:51 | 4177657 holgerdanske
holgerdanske's picture

it appears to imply that the struggling South American nation has agreed to sell or swap the gold it still holds overseas at the Bank of England to Goldman Sachs.


The gold it still holds overseas! I think that is maybe key. There is none, as Germany also has found out! And to make good gestures to bad deeds, they have "agreed" to lease it out.

They can't invade the UK and take it, can they? Especially if it is not there.




Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:57 | 4178038 reload
reload's picture

Remember the recent photo op of the Queen visiting the BOE - LINK TO PICS BELOW

The BOE realy want the world to believe it is still there - but if it many claims upon it?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:48 | 4177624 USS Bernanke
USS Bernanke's picture

So let me get this straight....

Chavez asks for his country's physical gold back from western world central banks.

Chavez dies.

Western world central banks repurchase previously recalled gold.


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:34 | 4177921 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Sure, but its not like intelligence agencies can give you cancer....  Right?  Right???

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:30 | 4177544 Squishi
Squishi's picture

Socialists Hate Gold!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:42 | 4177604 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Yeah, they're selling their gold. But if everybody gets a free XBox out of it, who's gonna give a fuck?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:48 | 4177633 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Everyone in the country will get a Samsung tablet and use these tablets to mine for Bitcoins.  In a few years, Venezuela will be the richest country in the world.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:47 | 4178007 TwoCats
TwoCats's picture

30 million people * 3-4MH/s = 120 THash/s, optimistically.

Seeing as how the mining network is running around 4300 THash/s already, and increasing exponentially, this is a fairly unprofitable endeavor.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:42 | 4178796 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Tut tut. This is socialism, and here you are trying to put profits before people.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:31 | 4177551 kensdad
kensdad's picture

1.45 million ounces?  That's just one day's worth of manipulation.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:34 | 4177569 chdwlch1
chdwlch1's picture

Not if you count fractional reserve banking rules and rehypothecation!?!?!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:57 | 4178055 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

Unfortunately at this point we it appears we can look forward to:


- Gold falls hard on news yet another country is "unloading huge amounts".

- Gold does nothing when it is proven JPM holds it down on behalf of BIS using paper derivatives

- Nothing happens when comex moves to cash settlement.

- Nothing happens when london moves to cash settlement.

- Eventually "gold price" collapses to $0 as people leave "gold market" where they cannot get gold.

- Newspapers print extended coverage of the collosal blunder of hoarding shiny rocks.


Then we find out the true price of gold.


Problem is, this is all anywhere between 1 and 10 years away.  I hope people bought their phys in the spirit of insurance rather than "all-in" cause its gonna be a long ride.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:11 | 4178671 daveO
daveO's picture

China bought 300 tons in August. Worldwide production for August was around 175. Prices for paper may go to zero, but real gold will be Chinese priced.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 17:30 | 4178949 ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

Im starting to think the FOFOA crowd has the right idea, at least about gold going officially to $0 and then no gold price for a while until we start hearing about what its selling for among the elites in the cash and carry market.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:32 | 4177553 y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

...Even up Trade for Venezuela/Goldman Sachs...Tungsten filled Gold for Tungsten filled Bitcoins

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:32 | 4177555 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That makes a lot of sense. Trade your gold which will last forever for some cheap Chinese flat screen teevees which will last a couple years.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:35 | 4177571 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

That is what scares me the most Doc, they traded that gold because they were desperate for....wait for it......dollars.

So while we sit here all day and talk about helicopter ben, the truth is almost everyone is so starved for dollars that they will part with anything for a few of them...which Ben is happy to hit a few keystrokes and create.

Blows my mind.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:44 | 4177609 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It's amazing how quickly they will destroy their currency and come crawling back to the Bernank.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:56 | 4177695 john39
john39's picture

precisely the reason you don't military force to control most countries, including the United States.  The power of the printing press is almost unstoppable.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:50 | 4177640 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

It is truly a sickening sight to behold. The Moneychangers destroying entire countries like it's a game of Risk.

Until velocity picks up from the printfest, or someone says "No Mas" on the USD, I guess not much will change?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:57 | 4177699 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

"So while we sit here all day and talk about helicopter ben, the truth is almost everyone is so starved for dollars that they will part with anything for a few of them."

not all starts with the "1" bro...

this shit will never end until 1 by 1 those that UNDERSTAND exit their paradigm to the greatest extent possible and choose to save and accumulate not worthless debt coupon dollars but their most hated enemies.....PHYSICAL GOLD AND SILVER...

this is a fucking war think their gonna let you walk away form them without doin everything possible to keep u entrapped??????????????

no freedom....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:09 | 4177752 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

further proof it can and is being done and they can b defeated...

"The People’s Bank of China said the country does not benefit any more from increases in its foreign-currency holdings, adding to signs policy makers will rein in dollar purchases that limit the yuan’s appreciation.

“It’s no longer in China’s favor to accumulate foreign-exchange reserves,” Yi Gang, a deputy governor at the central bank, said in a speech organized by China Economists 50 Forum at Tsinghua University yesterday. The monetary authority will “basically” end normal intervention in the currency market and broaden the yuan’s daily trading range, Governor Zhou Xiaochuan wrote in an article in a guidebook explaining reforms outlined last week following a Communist Party meeting."

exit their paradigm...


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:08 | 4178104 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Why deal with the US at all when China could probably fulfill their desire for dollars and anything else they need no problem, especially in exchange for some shiny.


Something stinks about this Modura character.  His policies are too over the top, he's requested and been given dictatoral powers, and now he's giving his gold back to America... western mole?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:12 | 4178682 daveO
daveO's picture

Don't worry, Maduro gets his kickbacks in gold.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:32 | 4177556 ChaosEquilibrium
ChaosEquilibrium's picture

Why would GS be buying Gold?


I believe GS came out last month indicating Gold was only going DOWN........


Again, Why would GS be buying Gold?:):)


I hope I survive the carnage to hear(months or years later) about blood in the streets of SOHO, TRIBECA, PARK and the winding roads of Thee Hamptons!!!

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:35 | 4177570 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Commence shearing of muppets in 3 2 1....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:33 | 4177557 NIHILIST CIPHER

Who do you think put Maduro in power?   Golden Slacks "winning".

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:33 | 4177558 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

That is pretty amazing. Venezuela is no different than joe six pack barfing up his grandmothers kruggerand at the cash for gold store to keep his lights on for another month....and goldman gets that gold and hands over some freshly printed pieces of paper.

Fuckin amazing.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:38 | 4177580 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

fucking stupid depressing is what is...

Chavez should crawl out the grave and pimp slap the fuck out of Maduro....fucking sellout mother fucker....


employees of this parasite should be punched on sight....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:41 | 4177595 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Chavez made this all possible. 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:51 | 4177649 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

no thats total bullshit....

the MoneyChangers have made this and all else possible...

and it ends when the world rejects their worthless paper and exit their ponzi paradigm....

Gold and Silver = Freedom and Liberty...

"debt is the money of slaves...."

now go back to school and learn somethin....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:09 | 4177759 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I junked you Park for criticizing Chavez from taking delivery of their gold from the crooks in London.

He was certainly no saint, but your point is wrong on the gold issue. He dared to challenge them, and that takes some courage. Something we see so little of these days. Especially in the USA. Bunch of brain dead fucking sheep following Barry O and the Banksters down the path to utter destruction.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:47 | 4178286 MxBonanza
MxBonanza's picture

I thought that getting the gold was a good idea too. Not anymore, Maduro is destroying businesses with his new unlimited powers. He is blaming the burgeois parasites (store owners) of the inflation he has caused. After he finishes with all the remaining stores, his only way out buying some time is to sell ALL Venezuelan gold to The Squid and The Morgue.

The manipulators are celebrating Maduro's moves to destroy Venezuela.

Good bye Venezuela Gold. It is just about time.

Bearish for now.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 18:08 | 4179061 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Junk away.  The only thing I - or anyone else here, assuming Sean Penn isn't a regular - absolutely know about Chavez is that A) he was a tyrant and B) he was a tyrant of a South American oil-rich nation that never stopped dealing with the US.  You don't become a tyrant in a third world resource-rich nation without the proper financing or logistical support from a certain customer of yours.  Assuming all that I've said, can you really assume that all was as it seemed with the whole Chavez-gold thing? 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:49 | 4177639 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Whats also amazing is the monkey hammer that goldman uses to crush phys before they 'do you a favor' and take it away, giving you fresh print paper.

Next goes to $1500.................GS wins

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:35 | 4177567 q99x2
q99x2's picture

If Venezuela was any kind of country they would arrest Goldman Sachs and feed them to piranha.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:36 | 4177575 walküre
walküre's picture

Brilliant. Swap gold for trinkets to keep the people stupid and happy. Happened before and then they lost their land.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:40 | 4177591 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

It happens in the U.S everyday. People barfing up their possessions for a few precious dollars. India is trying to ban gold imports. I don't see any Indian Government officals swinging from lamp posts.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:50 | 4177652 walküre
walküre's picture

India is a gigantic corrupt backwards cesspool. The ruling elite is so deeply rooted in their power structure, they never need to worry about swinging from any lampposts. Just avoid India and anything related to India like the plague. Just be glad that India is not sharing a border with the US.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:38 | 4178774 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Seattle just elected an indian American Socialist elitist Brahmin to their city council, she immediately advocated $15 minimum wage and rent control.  

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:56 | 4177690 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Silver imports are up dramatically in India. Like 15% of entire world silver production for 2013. So why isn't the silver price reflecting that demand?

The narrative on PM's is not only misleading and false, it has nothing to do with supply and demand. Ponder that for a bit.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:25 | 4178179 walküre
walküre's picture

Because the Dollar is bid and the Rupee is shit.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:38 | 4177583 vincent
vincent's picture

1.45 x current leverage of, say 60?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:03 | 4177731 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

More if you are a CB and you lease it out to some other CB who also leases it out....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:04 | 4178068 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

"Leasing" only puts more physical on the market the first time.  I'm not sure "re-leasing" makes any sense.  It may get leveraged after it is "leased" and sold but not by "re-leasing."  (I always put "leasing" in quotes with respect to gold because I think the concept is a fraud).

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:43 | 4177585 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

Gold it still holds in the Bank of England? Is this a 7 year deal or just a paper transfer?


lmao, it is a 7 year deal. You couldn't make it up. Is it going to Germany?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:39 | 4177586 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Haven't heard the last of this story yet.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:44 | 4177611 Max Damage
Max Damage's picture

SO swap gold for paper. Fuckin idiots

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:17 | 4178701 daveO
daveO's picture

Si. Viva La Revolucion! till the gold runs out.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:58 | 4177638 all-priced-in
all-priced-in's picture

Is this really a sale? or

Is Venezuela just using gold as collateral for a loan?

What is the 8%?


I figured Goldman would have come up with a more creative solution . Maybe securitize smoking hot Venezuelan women into a derivative based collateral backed self funding rehypothecating revolving credit default swap.   

You know something they can sell to the FED.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:45 | 4177871 moonstears
moonstears's picture

Yes, It will likely never be returned/repurchased

Yes, they need USD

8% is Bank of England's cut in a gold run situation, (likely plus their storage fees?), so Venusuela loses 18%+, Goldman manipulates price up and sells physical, to be paid back in bullion in a run, Ven can request the physical in 2020, if they can pay for it. Simple: So you get a loan for $1125 per ozt, while golds at $1250. Gold runs to $2250 by 2020 via Goldmans bullshit magic manipulation. Ven says" We want it back", Now they pay $2430(8% to BOE), in Dollars(they're short of now, BTW, but will have plenty come 2020), to get physical back. See how that works.

p.s. I guess giving away laptops generates dollars in Ven? Who'd a fuckin' thinked it??

P.P.S. If I'm missing something please expound, unless you Work For GS, in which case "Fuck you, liar!"

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 12:54 | 4177673 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

The horrible thing is that Gordon Brown was the rule not the excetion. The 1707 Act of Union was the start of all England's horrors.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:00 | 4177717 Silversinner
Silversinner's picture

Goldman Stacks ?!


Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:07 | 4177743 whatthecurtains
whatthecurtains's picture

I'm enjoying this scene from my Bitcoin mining rig.   

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:15 | 4177790 TPTB_r_TBTF
TPTB_r_TBTF's picture

any scene would be more enjoyable

than watching a bitcoin mining rig.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:35 | 4178758 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Wait till the porno people get into bitcoin mining

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:20 | 4177753 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

What the above article didn't say is that the original Spanish report from Venezuela contains a paragraph which said that the first shipment of gold back to Venezuela came from France. This was a shipment in November 2011.

"Los primeros lingotes vinieron de Francia en medio de un operativo denominado Oro Patrio y en el que participaron más de 500 funcionarios."

Given that Venezuela's gold was supposedly in the Bank of England as well as on deposit with the BIS and some bullion banks, see here

....then, since a shipment came from France, it came from the Banque de France, and this means that either there would have to have been a gold swap between the Bank of England and the Banque the France to satisfy their liability...or the bullion banks had to borrow gold from the Banque de France to satisfy their liability, probably BNP Paribas or HSBC... This also could explain the 2010 BIS gold swaps with the bullion banks being funded by gold borrowing from the Banque de France.

It also means there wasn't enough gold in the Bank of England to satisfy Venezuela's gold claim.

Also given that the Banque de France holds a large proportion of non good delivery US assay office bars, Venezuala now holds some US assay office bars which Goldman Sachs (really J Aron) will be eager to convert now into good delivery bars when they get their hands on it, so as to resell as soon as possible....

It doesn't matter if the Venezuela gold is sold or used as collateral. They'll still sell it straight away. All gold on deposit (by a central bank) with the bullion banks is sold straight away. All that remains is a liability.

When Goldman Sachs bought some of the Bank of England gold in 1999, they sold it in the market straight away so as to cover their liability which was a big problem at the time. A bailout in other words....

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 18:41 | 4179103 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

Sometimes i think why bother posting comments on ZH when very few comment. Maybe more see. We'll see. It's not a popularity contest but it would be nice if there was some way to see if non-registered readers have read and understood one's comments. It's just feedback, nothing else. It just gives one a sense of whether it's worth posting in future. A feedback mechanism is essential for continued contributions.

Some of you may snigger at the use of one, however it's the most suitable word in the context , so, don't display your ignorance..

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:11 | 4177772 Iam Yue2
Iam Yue2's picture

"The Samsung deal"    As I understand it, he paid cash for his TV.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:15 | 4177788 goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

Wait a minute, why can't they just front it to Germany so it won't take 7 years to get it from the FED in NY?

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:39 | 4177949 Metal Minded
Metal Minded's picture

Which makes me think- It's going to take 7 years to get the gold back to Germany because its currently on a slow boat to China.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:15 | 4177791 toto
toto's picture

The gold is no longer there.

They know it.

They take the money to buy physical.

End of story.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:17 | 4177812 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

GS reloading

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:25 | 4177867 Martel
Martel's picture

Every Western government is either selling or lending their gold to Goldman Sachs. They'll be buying it back in a few years.

Bitcoin could save some Venezuelans, but that's probably out of reach for most people.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:25 | 4177873 DarkestPhoenix
DarkestPhoenix's picture

For a government which supposedly hates America, it seems pretty stupid to distribute a shit-ton of phones from your enemy, who has been known to insert NSA code into technology so they can spy on their OWN citizens.  Not even Venezualan phone sex will be safe from now on.  Fortunately, since the Secret Service participates in the majority of underworld Spanish sex trade acts, the agents will hopefully end up cracking down on themselves.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:10 | 4178113 saints51
saints51's picture

Or have some new app they developed to find the cheapest deals in town.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 13:56 | 4178049 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

Shit, that's some expensive bread and circuses.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 14:34 | 4178228 beegle
beegle's picture

10% insurance is about armastrong bottom from here 

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 15:03 | 4178387 thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

So... gold is easily manipulated; so you support bitcoin because... it isn't, and that's why it is taking off as it has? Hmmm...

Bitcoin's Vast Overvaluation Appears Caused By Price-Fixing - Falkvinge on Infopolicy

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:32 | 4178740 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Hey they have to finance and pay for those Russian Air Defense systems and tanks somehow, and Russia don't need any more oil and is smart enough to NOT take fiat from another Socialist state for their real goods and services.   

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:42 | 4178800 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Socialism isn't a poltical philosophy but a tool for looting, Socialism isn't the end game but "creating a liquidation of assets while everybody is broke" is. 

Socialism will fail badly in Venezuela, but not before every nationalized asset is leveraged & looted by the state, when there's nothing left then the Socialist collapse occurs and fire sale liquidation happens, and the only people with money will ex-govt and criminal mafias from around the world. 

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 11:39 | 4181042 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

You are very wrong.  Socialism IS a philosophy of political economy (look it up in wiki!).  It is just a bad one from the perspective of people who want an economy the provides the most benefit for the most people, is most efficacious at engendering general prosperity, etc.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 16:55 | 4178834 ChaosEquilibrium
ChaosEquilibrium's picture

Just had a relative ask about acquiring a small-medium amount of PM's!!  Suggestions on who has the best pricing, lowest premium, quick delivery of U.S. Dealers? Only legit major dealers--no small local shops-- Thanks:)

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 18:29 | 4179087 TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

A few of my favorites:

FYI:  If you pay by check there is usually a waiting period of several days whilst the vendor waits for the check to clear.

Fri, 11/22/2013 - 11:32 | 4181021 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

I am fond of APMEX when I need a national level PM dealer.  They are willing to work with you on delivery timing needs, give good rates, premiums, etc., and they are also very professional, being a genuine US Mint Authorized Purchaser.  If any firm has US Mint product, it is them.

Thu, 11/21/2013 - 17:29 | 4178943 esum
esum's picture

why sell gold when you can pump oil

when will venezuela get the nuke with iran and russia backing... 

quick send kerry on a mission

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