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Banks Warn Fed They May Have To Start Charging Depositors

Tyler Durden's picture


The Fed's Catch 22 just got catchier. While most attention in the recently released FOMC minutes fell on the return of the taper as a possibility even as soon as December (making the November payrolls report the most important ever, ever, until the next one at least), a less discussed issue was the Fed's comment that it would consider lowering the Interest on Excess Reserves to zero as a means to offset the implied tightening that would result from the reduction in the monthly flow once QE entered its terminal phase (for however briefly before the plunge in the S&P led to the Untaper). After all, the Fed's policy book goes, if IOER is raised to tighten conditions, easing it to zero, or negative, should offset "tightening financial conditions", right? Wrong. As the FT reports leading US banks have warned the Fed that should it lower IOER, they would be forced to start charging depositors.

In other words, just like Europe is already toying with the idea of NIRP (and has been for over a year, if still mostly in the rheotrical and market rumor phase), so the Fed's IOER cut would also result in a negative rate on deposits which the FT tongue-in-cheekly summarizes "depositors already have to cope with near-zero interest rates, but paying just to leave money in the bank would be highly unusual and unwelcome for companies and households."

If cutting IOER was as much of an easing move as the Fed believes, banks should be delighted - after all, according to the Fed's guidelines it would mean that the return on their investments (recall that all US banks slowly but surely became glorified, TBTF prop trading hedge funds since Glass Steagall was repealed, and why the Volcker Rule implementation is virtually guaranteed to never happen) would increase. And yet, they are not:

Executives at two of the top five US banks said a cut in the 0.25 per cent rate of interest on the $2.4tn in reserves they hold at the Fed would lead them to pass on the cost to depositors.


Banks say they may have to charge because taking in deposits is not free: they have to pay premiums of a few basis points to a US government insurance programme.


“Right now you can at least break even from a revenue perspective,” said one executive, adding that a rate cut by the Fed “would turn it into negative revenue – banks would be disincentivised to take deposits and potentially charge for them”.


Other bankers said that a move to negative rates would not only trim margins but could backfire for banks and the system as a whole, as it would incentivise treasury managers to find higher-yielding, riskier assets.


“It’s not as if we are suddenly going to start lending to [small and medium-sized enterprises],” said one. “There really isn’t the level of demand, so the danger is that banks are pushed into riskier assets to find yield.”

All of the above is BS: lending has never been a concern for the Fed because if it was, then one could scrap QE right now as an absolute faiure. Recall that as we showed recently, the total amount of loans and leases in commercial US banks has been unchanged since Lehman, with the only rise in deposits coming thanks to the fungible liquidity injected by the Fed.

Furthermore, contrary to what the hypocrite banker said that "the danger is that banks are pushed into riskier assets to find yield”, banks are already in the riskiest assets: just look at what JPM was doing with its hundreds of billions in excess deposits, which originated as Fed reserves on its books - we explained the process of how the Fed's reserves are used to push the market higher most recently in "What Shadow Banking Can Tell Us About The Fed's "Exit-Path" Dead End."

What the real danger is, is that once the Fed lowers IOER and there is a massive outflow of deposits, that banks which have used the excess deposits as initial margin and collateral on marginable securities to chase risk to record highs (as JPM's CIO explicitly and undisputedly did) that there would be an avalanche of selling once the negative rate deposit outflow tsunami hit.

Needless to say, the only offset would be if the proceeds from the deposits outflows were used to invest in stocks instead of staying inert in some mattress or, worse (if only from the Fed's point of view) purchase inert assets like gold or Bitcoin.

Which brings us back to the first sentence and the Fed's now massive Catch 22: on one hand, shoud the Fed taper, rates will surge and stocks will once again plunge, as they did, in early summer, just to teach the evil, non-appeasing Fed a lesson.

On the other hand, should the Fed cut IOER as a standalone move or concurrently to offset the tapering pain, banks will crush depositors by cutting rates, depositors will pull their money from banks en masse, and banks will have no choice but to close on a record levered $2.2 trillion in margined risk position.


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Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:27 | 4186073 ciscokid
ciscokid's picture

Buy gold.....

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:37 | 4186091 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

4 trillion dollars of interest has been stolen from savers by greenspit and shalom's low/zero interest rate policy.   


The citizenry  remains sedate...   Why not see if they can take it all?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:41 | 4186099 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I am the guy who said, years ago and right here on ZH, that "if the Fed really wanted inflation all they have to do is poison the well: start CHARGING interest on excess reserves.  That would have the banks hiring loan officers to stand on street corners giving out loans."

And here we are (almost).

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:55 | 4186138 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Must first find street corner where not is territory of local crack whore.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:08 | 4186158 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Must first pay police officer for street corner where is not territory of local crack whore...

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:30 | 4186213 knukles
knukles's picture

This just in!

Today Knukles dropped a loaf in the foyer of his local bank branch.  The resultant cluster-fuck has led Jamie Dimon to publicly state that banks will now need to charge interest on client deposits in order to compensate for the additional janitorial and sanitation services necessary for the public's own good.

Thanks, Knukie.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:52 | 4186263 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

At this point in the game, I don't think there's much to talk about except how to get out of the game.

It's gonna collapse anyhow and fall all over your shoes, so you might as well start steppin'. The more folks that just walk away from this nonsense, the quicker it falls.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 19:31 | 4186458 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I think it's great that the banks will charge more.  Keep charging them and charging them more.  I can only assume that the depositors enjoy the abuse.  As long as BDSM is between consenting adults it's not my business.

Have fun pretending like your "dollar" scheme still has relevance as Bitcoin soars into the stratosphere.  People like Simon Black, Jeff Berwick and myself will be having a great laugh at your expense.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 20:20 | 4186553 WOAR
WOAR's picture

Those Bitcoin ATM's you're so fond of are going to charge you 30% to change it into useable fiat, if this happens. You do realize who is receiving Bitcoin in exchange for dollars at those ATM's, right? Hopefully you know who runs most ATM machines...banks, in case you didn't.

I hope you're long lube and hemorrhoid cream as well as Bitcoin.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 20:31 | 4186574 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Right, because nobody else will enter the business and compete for rates hey?

Moar FUD!!!!

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:03 | 4186640 WOAR
WOAR's picture

No, they won't, for the same reason that Diebold machines are the only voting machines you've heard of.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:14 | 4186656 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Oh really?  I am sure.  Man, you guys really have to grasp at straws hey?  Of course if you spent five minutes thinking about the logic of your own supposed "arguments" against Bitcoin you would see just how dumb they sound.

Bitcoin will most likely make ATMs go the way of the telegraph office.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:23 | 4186769 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

""depositors already have to cope with near-zero interest rates, but paying just to leave money in the bank would be highly unusual and unwelcome for companies and households."


It would be safer in your dresser, anyway.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:56 | 4186845 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

But company accounts get a higher interest rate from banks anyway, assuming they have a large enough amount in the account. This would just lower that interest rate a little, or not at all, depending on how set up the "rules." They will only charge smaller accounts, i.e. the peasants, to hold cash in the bank. Same as always.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:15 | 4186995 PT
PT's picture

For the last 20 years or so my bank fees have exceeded the interest paid on my deposits.  The rot set in when all employers started using direct deposit.  For a significant part of the population, it is just too hard to get paid in cash.  I wonder what it will take for the mobs to decide they don't want to put their cash where it can be stolen by a complete stranger who lives thousands of miles away.  What will it take for them to realize that the guy who is "looking after their wallet for them" hasn't got their best interests at heart after all.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:19 | 4186997 PT
PT's picture

Actually, a significant portion of the population won't care.  These are the people who are already up to their eyeballs in debt, who just keep borrowing more money to make up any short falls.  Those people won't care until the banks decide to take ownership.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 07:58 | 4187269 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Just call it a bail-in and it won't feel like it's really costing them anything.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 01:47 | 4187085 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Sort of funny how people that are involved with BC are not talking about what they just bought with their bitcoins, but are constantly trying to tell everyone it's a currency and shame us by telling everyone how much we are losing out on.

That is what you call a fanatic.


Usually behind every fanatic is a scam.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 02:40 | 4187117 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Well I have been a fanatical supporter of total unbridled freedom since presencing myself in this world.  Profit is not what is important here.  Profit and economic power translate to political power. 

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 08:06 | 4187275 Randoom Thought
Randoom Thought's picture

I am just curious WHO you think created Bitcoin. You may say you don't care because a global fully electronic fiat currency created and controlled by someone you don't know is freedom. Freedom from whom? Freedom from the banks? Most likely not.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 10:56 | 4187664 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Who created Bitcoin is about as important as who created the first copper disk to use as money.  But obviously he/she/they wanted to keep it about the creation and not about them personally so kudos to them.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 11:29 | 4187730 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

Hi Fonestar,


Why is there a $100 difference between the BTC price on Gox ($820) and BTC-E ($722)?


Edit: Looking for an xchange where I can buy multiple digcurr. Gox charges 0.6% while BTC-E only .2% (and you can trade several curr).


Mon, 11/25/2013 - 13:06 | 4188070 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The best answer I can give you is that currently BTC exchanges are a bit of a bad joke right now (pun intended).  Everyone is off doing their own thing.  Obviously the demand is there, but the framework is currently not in place to facilitate it yet.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 12:47 | 4190713 papaclop
papaclop's picture

Hey fonestar, I'm a big fan of Berwick and Simon Black, and might even hedge my mining stocks with a BTC someday; but you still sound like a mo.r.on.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 02:55 | 4187125 babkjl
babkjl's picture

I bought a Ballistic Drop Calculating rife scope with a built in laser rangefinder, a tee shirt and some premium tea nearly direct from the growers using Bitcoins. We're planning to buy Christmas presents this year with Bitcoins. What have you bought with your gold or silver coins recently? I bought a truck (indirectly) with mine 4 years ago. Both Bitcoins and gold have purchasing power and shouldn't only be hoarded, they have to circulate too. At least Fonestar defends with logic and some decent arguments.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 04:12 | 4187176 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

BC = mania


It's funny to us who are not falling for it.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:10 | 4186882 Seer
Seer's picture

Yeah, let's see you move in on say the territory of the poppy growers in Afghanistan.

The existing infrastructure will do whatever it takes to remain in power, and if it should find that it has to make a significant shift then it will do so, and in the process uproot any "well-meaning" folks.  Of course, if the entire reason one is pushing a given "investment" is in order to sell it off then I suppose you're on the right track (looking to get bought out) with Bitcoin...

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:45 | 4186942 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

my banker told me the FREE money he gets from the Fed is not enoughg for his Brand New BMW, refurbuishing his Yacht, redecorations to his Cape Code weekend mansion and his wife's fine tastes so he says he needs a Bail-In from depositors to help him out.

Sounds reasonable, yes?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:10 | 4186272 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

I can only hope that the Chiro Kid wasn't abusing his stool softeners again...

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:12 | 4186174 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

BIT OT I wonder how necessary traditional banks still are, it's conceivable within a decade they could easily be reduced to a quarter or less of their current services.

It's so easy for people to manage their own money and products like square and innovations like btc... what do banks offer in the future? Especially if they plan on going down a road of charging depositors.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:32 | 4186216 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

banks are useful as a place to get cash, and cash checks.

i find vendors tend to give me better pricing when i pay them in cash, with no electronic or paper trail.

aside from being a cash warehouse, they aren't terribly useful, though.



Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:54 | 4186265 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Would be tough to justify their valuations being only 'cash warehouses' lol

The big horror is banks being rolled back to what they were in the 50s.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:27 | 4186327 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

When ECB tested the waters last week on what negative deposits would look like the response was full-on negative. If the world is looking for the flashpoint that will cause global revolt, then all we need to look for is what happened the last time negative rates were employed in a streched social fabric: Argentina 1986. Two years later after a full-out social strike the country declared force majuer on their loans and set off the giant ball to conduit collapse. 

If you think Joe the Plumber is upset at being laid off or having 2 jobs + his trade practice now, try explaining to him that 1% of his savings will be confiscated each month going forward. Because Obama.

Pushing on the string will not innovate banks to lend, because loan origination is done as a function of top-down macro outlook. If the macro-outlook is decidedly bad, no amount of interest rate trickery will convince them to increase rubber loans if the outlook will only further deteriorate. None of this is new, Sigmund Warburg's biography had tons of notes on what personally a negative interest rate scenario looks like at a Loan Review Officer level.

Cliff notes on SGW's highlights: "Your fucking retarded if you think lending money to someone who is not even making the inflation adjusted IRR is a good idea. Stop being stupid and get us the fuck out of this shit-hole called Germany where our 50 year customers can't even pay their workforce without using REPO conduits for daily cash float".


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:08 | 4186647 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I don't think it will be a global revolt, I think it would be a lovely complete financial collapse of the entire world leaving central banks to wonder WTF happened. 

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:11 | 4186991 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I'm bailing out before they bail me in. If I'm lending them my money when I thought I was making a deposit as a saving, then this proposed fee is in effect a management fee for the risk they are providing. Fucked up world, eh?

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 02:24 | 4187102 Georgiabelle
Georgiabelle's picture

I opened an account at the local credit union Friday. I no longer trust the big banks with my savings and feel that putting some of it in a credit union will give me at least one degree of separation from the nexus of evil and perhaps even buy me a bit of extra time if/when the SHTF. I know, naive. But it makes me feel more in control..

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:20 | 4186312 Double.Eagle.Gold
Double.Eagle.Gold's picture

I used to find vendors willing to give better prices...


Today when I ask about this I get blank stares; pay with cash, "please don't because if I receive cash I have to make a bank deposit after work" is the response I received when asking for a cash discount from a Sales Person at local Sleep Country store in Seattle Area.


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:21 | 4186672 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Doesn't work at chain stores, only small businesses.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:45 | 4186943 Overfed
Overfed's picture

In my business, I will negotiate price with a customer willing to pay cash (or gold, silver, and ammo for that matter). If they are using plastic, the price is set in stone.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:54 | 4186960 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

I went with a neighbor to look at Fridges today and the sales clerks all push the 'zero interest finance' scheme. When my friend said what discount would she get if she paid $1499 cash for the fridge they had to call a supervisor to find out what to do.



Mon, 11/25/2013 - 02:00 | 4187089 Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

And the answer was...??

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 06:31 | 4187237 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

More than likely it was, "No can do..."

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 20:41 | 4186593 Jafo
Jafo's picture

TPTB think that this will be a good idea because they think that depositos will withdraw their money and spend it rather than save it - thus stimulating the economy.  More likely this will wind up as the mother of all stock market blow offs as savers will prefer to buy shares in dividend paying companies in an attempt to preserve the value of their savings.

It will all end in tears of course but not before we see a spectacle that makes the bubble look like a flat line.  As they say - this ought to be interesting.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:11 | 4186887 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

this i agree with. "banks"..."the Government"...all of them appear to be watching in strange fascination as the market does nothing but go up and up and up. "Winning!" appears to be the operative term for this effect as well..and i did take note there were no names to go with those quotes. In other words those "accounts" you might start charging interest on could be what causes foreign depositors to withdraw their monies en banc from the financial establishment. Is now the time to be making this kind of threat? Seems a little odd when "the elite" has never had it so good. I mean "a 40% decline in equity prices from here is what we want"? That doesn't sound like a bank talking to me...

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:27 | 4186909 Renfield
Renfield's picture

DVet, I always read your comments even if half the time I can't understand WTF you're saying, as you have an interesting perspective. You raise a point that was kind of worrying me too.

I also can't see why the banks would push for this - NOW - when things are apparently going so well for them. Bail-in legislation is in place. The sheeple are quiet. 'Christmas' is coming.

I guess in light of your comment I'm now wondering one of two questions:

1) Why now? OR

2) Who is it, REALLY, behind this? (If it's really the big banks pushing for it, then see 1) above.)

Cui bono?

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 07:31 | 4187257 Oleander
Oleander's picture

Cash a check only if you have an acct. My sister wrote me a check and her bank, Citizens (RBS), wanted $7.00 to cash it.

No way I was giving them $7.oo. Bastards!

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:34 | 4186930 Seer
Seer's picture

Life is just wierd...  WAAY back when I worked for a software startup that was essentially doing electronic minting and clearing.  Late one night several folks (developers) were hanging around (taking a break from working mega hours) talking about the future of the software, we all realized that the software was a threat to traditional banks: the irony was that a big international bank was bankrolling us- I suspect that they were really only trying to keep us locked down.

Now that banks are catering to less and less people their days are numbered (it's that economies of scale in reverse thing/reason again).  It's possible that they'll go to something that's specifically targeted to business/elites, futher stratifying the upper-crust from the lower-crust: they'll likely utilize their own Internet as well.  The race is on to build combat/crontrol robots to keep all the "un-clean" away from their infrastructure: this has been happening for quite some time, in other countries.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:22 | 4187001 PT
PT's picture

J_C :  Very hard for me to get a job where I am paid in cash.  Everyone does direct deposit these days.  Same for most people.  I've even met a businessman who prefers to be paid via internet banking to cash.  That is what you're up against.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 03:15 | 4187135 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Yeah but that service is low margin, widespread (in terms of the tech) and (as seer points out above) relies on scale. Could easily be changed overnight, i.e. switch from a TBTJ and into a local bank / credit union.

Don't get how these dinos justify their existence, particularly looking into the future. And then the idea of charging depositors? That's not a ten year business plan, that's desperation.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:03 | 4186282 cornflakesdisease
cornflakesdisease's picture

How dear you talk about Nancy Pelosi that way!

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:27 | 4186328 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

Boris, you "crack" me up.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max"

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:36 | 4186343 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Boris Alatovkrap

Must first find street corner where not is territory of local crack whore.

The difference between a banker and a crack whore is one can afford crack while the other affords cocaine.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:55 | 4186379 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

It's also a matter of who's the pitcher and who's the catcher. Perspective is everything in your analogy.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 19:06 | 4186407 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

Nonetheless, they are both whores in service to two very different clientele.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 19:16 | 4186428 Oracle 911
Oracle 911's picture

I wanted Up-vote you, for some reason I can't.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 07:51 | 4187263 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Click on the comment you wanna upvote, use "tab" until the "´" is at the up or down arrow, and hit "Return". Done. (By the way: You cannot up-/downvote with mouse, because it begins with italics, non alphanumerical [e.g. "$"] or blockquote.)

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 14:20 | 4188281 Oracle 911
Oracle 911's picture

Thank you.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:00 | 4186143 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Once again.... it's all about the "health" of our so-called banks.  They are not banks.  They are government sanctioned casinos in which the house never loses.

What else do we need to know?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:13 | 4186171 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

"My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks"

~ Barry Obama the Patron Saint of Global Bankers  April 2009

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:15 | 4186183 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Ya know, I don't mind being a witness to this train wreck, but I'll be damned if I'll be a passenger on it!

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:18 | 4186188 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Have you forgotten the Nazi cattle cars coming for our deliverance? Like obamacare, its not optional.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:33 | 4186220 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

all aboard!

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:16 | 4186185 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"My administration is the only thing between you and the pitchforks"

...and he played his role well. Er I mean he's a kenyan socialist!!

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:23 | 4186197 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The statement clearly places him on the side of the Bankers and against the po' folk his teleprompter keeps making him say he cares about so much...

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:30 | 4186211 logicalman
logicalman's picture


I don't think he could even spell it.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 20:26 | 4186564 tgmur10
tgmur10's picture

Oh "Yes he Can!"


Mon, 11/25/2013 - 04:17 | 4187177 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Obozo did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of fat cats in Wall Street. His mandate was to help ALL fat cats.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:56 | 4186963 Balanced Integer
Balanced Integer's picture

Just because he knows how to parlay the bankers' fear of the common rabble into more political power says nothing that would dissuade me from believing that he IS a socialist.

All it means is that he is a politician. 

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:59 | 4186270 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> They are not banks.  They are government sanctioned casinos in which the house never loses.

What else do we need to know?


Well ...

"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done."

It's time to fold 'em and walk away - before they make you run.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:45 | 4186163 rbg81
rbg81's picture

This is a WEALTH TAX, plain and simple.  From the politician's point of view, the beautiful part is that is can be done without passing ANY LAW.  So when the people demand to know who is responsible, they have plausible deniability.  They can just shrug and say:  "Shit happens".

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:41 | 4186936 Seer
Seer's picture

No it's not.

This is under the control of the banks.

As bookkeeping has it, just as interest can be income it can also become an expense.  Written off as an expense means it detracts from taxes owed.

The REAL action is in the govt being able to keep interest payments on its debt low: this is aided and abetted by the Fed.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 08:47 | 4187327 rbg81
rbg81's picture

No, I am merely stating the big picture.  If the banks have to reduce "fair" interest income on my deposits so the Government can get near zero interest, then that is STILL a tax.  It is both a tax & an insult if I have to pay for the "service" of keep my $$ in the bank.  The bank is still using my deposit to earn $$, but I would have to pay a penalty for that.  If they start doing that, then I will just cut out the middleman (them) and start buying bonds directly.  Which is probably just what the Powers-that-Be want.  

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:28 | 4186176 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

"That would have the banks hiring loan officers to stand on street corners giving out loans."

It will take a little while since they'll first have to move out the hookers that are sitting on those street corners... At least with the hookers you're getting something while your getting screwed.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:02 | 4186224 Renfield
Renfield's picture

<<I am the guy who said, years ago and right here on ZH, that "if the Fed really wanted inflation all they have to do is poison the well: start CHARGING interest on excess reserves.  That would have the banks hiring loan officers to stand on street corners giving out loans. And here we are (almost).">>

SWRichmond, I remember you saying that.

Funny story. Last week I took out a little cash advance. (Yeah, we like to give our credit lines a little action now and then. Keeps the Man happy.)

Bank proposed changing our little $10K LOC to a $55K line - but at a 2% interest rate rise. Oh, and switch to an adjustable rate while we're at it.

We thought that 8% on $55K sounded more expensive than 6% on $10K, so we nixed the offer. Bank dude was a little grumpy about that. I mentioned to my husband that he seemed pretty damn grumpy for a guy who seemed to think HE had been offering US a pretty good deal.

Your comment made me reply here to report, from the street corner, that some are indeed standing there already, trying to give out loans. Doesn't mean we have to take 'em, though.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:42 | 4186357 pursueliberty
pursueliberty's picture

I got into a small disagreement with a banker a few weeks ago while refi'ing a rental property.


I've used the bank for many years and many loans.  I remember them all, they've always been paid, never a day late.  I wanted to pull $30k out of a property, basically putting it at 50% LTV.  He asked how long I wanted the term to be and I said my usual 15 yr/3yr balloon.  He said amount is too small and the bank is taking on risk due to the length of term.  I excused him, and asked how that was possible.  He started to counter, and I just said look at loan on property X I financed last year at $20k.  They got rid of all the old guys working the bank and have some pushy young guys now.  Its that way everywhere now I'm afraid.  I just purchased some machinery and they requested 25% down payment.  Used to be 10% on 4 year term.  I skipped the loan.  They are asking for more and giving less everyday now.  Makes business a little harder, but my ultimate goal is to avoid financing if at all possible and I'm certain of my investment.  If it is a risky endeavor I'll always finance.  Maybe one day I'll leave them holding a bag of shit.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:13 | 4186655 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Paying with cash starves these fucks anyway.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:08 | 4186868 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

One can hoard cash to get around the penalty. So expect the digital currency or cashless society soon. Gold is your only refuge. But can you weather the price storm!?!?!?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:44 | 4186102 dryam
dryam's picture

I propose a "Where's money come from?" campaign.  That phrase can be on bumper stickers, web posts, etc.  One simple youtube or google search can be very enlightening for financially ignorant people.  It's simple, and asks a basic question few people can answer, but everyone knows they should be able to answer.  I think it might fly.  Keep it simple stupid.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:55 | 4186137 max2205
max2205's picture

I am gonna need another mattress

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:15 | 4186180 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Realistically, unless you live in a high crime area there is no reason to keep money in a bank. Another thing similar to the depression.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:35 | 4186225 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I wish that were true except I fear government agencies more so than thieves. Their ability to confiscate cash as evidence of some potential crime is very concerning. I would have pulled my cash out several years ago but for this fear. And the banks will report you to the feds if you pull more than 5k out, so its not like they don't know you have it. Its not that much different than what many southern Europeans have been dealing with in capital controls for a number of years now.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:15 | 4186660 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I yanked 5K out when W was still Prez and bought some shiny stuff with it. Lost it in a boating accident the next week. I gave them my license knowing they would ask for it.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:56 | 4186847 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Pull out a little at a time. Start a stash of cash on the side to go with the shiny stuff. Buy guns and ammo. As you sell something, take cash. 

The underground economy is thriving. Come be a part of it. 

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:36 | 4186933 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Withdrawing nothing from your bank because they'll know about it, is defeatist.

It's YOUR money. You can take out as little or much as YOU choose. If you don't want a record, then just start withdrawing. Erratic amounts. Erratic times. (and it's none of their business to know why.)

One other thing - if you absolutely need the services of a bank, then transfer your account to a Credit Union and then withdraw from there. CU's are much more customer friendly anyway.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 03:33 | 4187150 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

You don't think they track petty cash like $400 from ATMs do you?  Yet, $400/week * 50 weeks is $20K!   So simple a caveman could do it.  Get started sooner than later.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:48 | 4186823 stant
stant's picture

mason jar federal for me, have you priced mason jars lately. they gone up

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 02:37 | 4187114 Adahy
Adahy's picture

Yes, I certainly have noticed.  It is squeezing an alerady small profit margin on my homemade jams, jellies, pickles, sauces, and herbs.
Battling the big box stores for price and customers leaves me working for Chinese wages.  Oh well, such is life.  Gladly I do not require much.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:01 | 4186146 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

If people really wanted to know they would by now. Preaching to them just pisses them off. They have no compunction about attacking the messenger.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 03:30 | 4187146 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

I'll place my "debt" bumper sticker right under it.  Amazingly simple answer isn't it?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 22:20 | 4186761 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Young people have no, and never will have any savings.
Old sheeple are scared sheeple. The grew up, married, worked and retired in Fedgov Plantation. They'll do what Massa Ben says. Yessum.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:34 | 4187014 Ben Dover
Mon, 11/25/2013 - 04:06 | 4187173 Pizza man
Pizza man's picture

I've read the number is 11 trillion and the total of guarantees for cronies and the banks, 13 trillion, Milli V.

Our masters wouldn't be doing what they are doing unless We were sedate/somnambulistic. It's a prerequsite

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:30 | 4186164 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture



went into Bofa with the old lady saturday to of course cash her Kaiser payroll check depositing ZERO as is always the case. for kicks while i waited for her to finish the trans i asked the new accts person for a rate sheet on time deposits and MM's  every last one was paying 0.13 or a little more accross the board...tht included Money mrkt. deposits over 250k!!!!


the brawd told me if i was looking to earn a decent rate of return on our money we should get "a credit card" offering cash rewards...............

dig it...u get a negative real rate of return for the priviledge of allowing the MoneyChangers to hold your soon to b worthless debt coupon dollars while they loan it out for 3-5% over ten to thirty years to buy a overvalued depreciaing asset, or they"ll glady let you apply for a credit (DEBT) card that you most likely wont qualify for with a interest rate somehere in the range of 14-29% interest..........

YOU STAY IN THEIR DEBT AND RIGGED PARADIGM...EXPECT TO LOOSE ALL....bail in's and capital controls r sure as collapse....

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:43 | 4186243 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:08 | 4186289 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture


(In a fair world that should yield twice as many up-votes as a +1...)

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:33 | 4186338 Professor Fate
Professor Fate's picture

And I bought more Morgan 1921s from Apmex just last week. My current investment of choice.

Fate the Magnificent
"Push the Button, Max" 

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:02 | 4186638 awakeRewe
awakeRewe's picture

Go long Safes.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 07:13 | 4187246 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

The Bank of Mattress is looking pretty good then isn't it?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:30 | 4186079 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

The US version of a "bail in".

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:31 | 4186084 Racer
Racer's picture

They take in money, give virtually nothing in interest to depositers then charge huge amount of interest to borrowers, ah the poor diddums can't cope with losing 0.25%

Huh, Bank of Mattress is far safer

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:35 | 4186086 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

On the other hand, should the Fed cut IOER as a standalone move or concurrently to offset the tapering pain, banks will crush depositors by cutting rates, depositors will pull their money from banks en masse, and banks will have no choice but to close on a record levered $2.2 trillion in margined risk position.

And which bank is giving any reasonable rate now? My business account just got fees cranked up for Federal Reserve "reporting requirements", this is already a done deal.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:02 | 4186283 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

We can't up-vote ya when ya start with a "quote".


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:08 | 4186291 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Little known can, but you have to hit Tab to get to the vote count after selecting the username first. Tabbed thru above to show that it can be done. Select username, hit Tab 3 times or so (to move thru the other fields), then hit Enter when you tab to the up-arrow, or Enter when you tab to the down-arrow.

Of course it requires some detemination. I usually only reserve this kind of work for trolls who use italics to try to save themselves from a red-arrow avalanche.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 19:03 | 4186402 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Who pissed you off enough to discover that?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:53 | 4186782 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Won't repeat its name for fear of invoking it.

That beard terrified me the last time it was here, and it shat all over every interesting thread so much that you couldn't read a full page without stopping to scrape Keynesian brainpoop. If you must know.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 04:57 | 4187193 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Krugtron the Unvincible.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:37 | 4186089 Dre4dwolf
Dre4dwolf's picture

Lol charge me to loan you money.

Thats funny.


I guess thats what they meant by negative interest rates.


everyone would withdraw all their money and put it into gold/stocks/booze/mattress 



Mabe we have evolved past the need for banks.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:45 | 4186107 ImpotentRage
ImpotentRage's picture

"Mabe we have evolved past the need for banks."

I think we hit that point the moment our money became nothing but 1's and 0's on some computer.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:05 | 4186152 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

We ain't evolving we are revolving back to the same shit that wipes out civilizations time after time.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:33 | 4186219 knukles
knukles's picture


Mon, 11/25/2013 - 06:40 | 4187239 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:18 | 4186173 rbg81
rbg81's picture

Uh, that is the point. They WANT you to put it into stocks and bonds (especially USTs) to shore up the shakey pension systems.  Or, best of all, buy SHIT YOU DON'T NEED.  Consume for today baby--without any thought for the future.

The banks don't need your stinking $$--they will get made up $$ from the FED for free.

Its all part of THE PLAN.  

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:37 | 4186093 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Ain't this some shit. The same banks that the taxpayers bailed out of their stupid decisions / investments, are now going to directly charge their customers for keeping their money if the Fed cuts the excess reserves rates to zero? Classic heads the banks win, and tails the taxpayers lose again. These fuckers want a guaranteed profit off the backs of the US Tax payers no matter what.


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 18:11 | 4186296 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture




Mon, 11/25/2013 - 01:01 | 4187044 Ben Dover
Ben Dover's picture

Dude, it can't be done. DHS bought all the bullets, remember?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:27 | 4186509 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

The obvious answer, DirkDiggler11, is because the banksters are better able to buy politicians, who pay the police to protect the established systems of social robbery. The banksters are the Vicious Wolves, while the police are their Domesticated Dogs. The vast majority of people are Zombie Sheeple, while those calling for the banksters to be arrested tend to be nothing more than Black Sheep.

Only better organized predators could arrest the currently established top predators. Furthermore, there could be extreme individual cases of injustice when attempting to draw the lines regarding who was a culpable bankster, and who was not so culpable. In their own way, most of professional money managers are inside their own herd, following each others' tails around, as those are illuminated by the numbers on their computer screens, inside of their ouroboros of incorporated robbery. I doubt that most banksters are fully able to understand the degree to which their own bullshit is bullshit, since their systems of legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, have been working for so many generations that their theories are for them the state religion, with its caste of high priests, that are able to believe because it is absurd, as was so often the case with past versions of state religions.

Of course, theories are relatively useless as long as the social facts continue to be that the vast majority of people do not want to know where money comes from. They have been so successfully brainwashed for so long that they have no clue how clueless they are, and they do not comprehend why they do not want to know where money comes from. OF COURSE, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO FOLLOW THE MONEY TO ITS SOURCE. However, almost nobody wants to do that. Furthermore, when one looks at the funding of the political processes, it is clear that about 99% of the public never paid for any significant politics, while about 1% paid for almost all the significant political processes. Therefore, the real political processes are the reasons why the 99% are being more and more ripped off by the 1%, while the top 1% of that 1% are so far away from the 99% below as to barely be able to be compared.

How is anyone supposed to compete with those who have the legalized power to counterfeit the public money supply, and therefore, can easily dominate paying for anything they want to be done. There is nobody in the same league as the banksters' ability to dominate the political processes, as they already so overwhelmingly do. How is anyone else supposed to pay the puppet politicians, to order the police to enforce the rule of law, in the real context where the action patterns of the police are to protect private property, which is overwhelmingly owned by the biggest banks? (Furthermore, the biggest bankers and their buddies could pay for mercenaries to protect them, if they felt that was necessary.)

All in all, the various childish expostulations of frustration. common in various Zero Hedge comments, about hating and killing the banksters, are their own kinds of bluster and bullshit.

There is no doubt that MONEY IS MEASUREMENT BACKED BY MURDER.  However, while the debt controls depend upon the death controls, the government IS organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, which happen these days to be the international banksters. Most of those who denounce the banksters tend to never think through the problem of the paradox of enforcement, that the rule of law can only actually be enforced by the group that is the best at being dishonest, and backing that up violence.

That is WHY the banksters are getting away with systematically fleecing the Sheeple to exhaustion, while setting those Sheeple up to be slaughtered. The only theoretical ways that things MIGHT get better is IF enough of those Sheeple relearned how to be better wolves. However, that would take a series of political miracles, given the degree to which most of them have been effectively reduced to being Zombies. In order to actually displace the banksters, there would have to be a group of better organized criminals. Ideally, that would be a group of better organized criminals which was a bigger gang, because it was understood and agreed with by a larger group of people, since the current systems exist because MONEY IS MEASUREMENT BACKED BY MURDER, and BANKSTERS WERE THE BEST AT DOING THAT, and therefore, there is no real way to displace the banksters other than through providing better measurements, backed up by better murders.  Obviously, vigilante murders of some banksters would NOT be better!

Unless there was some group that could be better at doing what the banksters did, then there is nobody else that is going to be able to displace the current groups of banksters, as the pyramidion people at the top of the current social pyramid systems. Ideally, the goal is to change the shape of society, so that the pyramid was seen to be a toroidal vortex, as it actually is, and therefore, operated as such better. Ideally the goal is not to make money within the system, but to change the structure of the monetary system itself. In that context, we should have different banksters, not mass murder the old banksters, because they have become obsolete mad men.

I would like to think that any group who understood things better would NOT engage in a vendetta or seek revenge against the established banksters. First of all, those banksters are already so powerful that they practically enjoy sovereign immunity, because they already practically control the government. Secondly, and longer term better government would necessarily be based upon better death controls, which would NOT mean worse injustices, such as vigilante mass murders of various banksters. While I agree with the sentiments behind those who curse the banksters, and suggest they should be murdered, I think that they are operating out of profoundly mistaken notions, which would not work, but rather, fail for sure, resulting in things getting even worse, rather than better.

EVERYONE HAS SOME POWER TO ROB, AND POWER TO KILL TO BACK THAT UP. The banksters have been those who were the best at organizing systems in order to do that. However, the best theory continues to be a democratic republic, operating through the rule of law, to channel and limit the uses of the power to rob. BUT, BUT, BUT, those powers of "We the People" have already been about 99% privatized, because 99% of the People act like political idiots, or Zombie Sheeple, which is WHY the banksters continually get away with what they are getting away with. In the end, there appear no practical ways to deal with the already accomplished degree of brainwashing of the vast majority of the people by the school systems and the mass media, since "the Fed's Catch 22 just gets catchier."

We are stuck in the rut of the best organized gangs of criminals having already controlled the government, to turn that into a runaway fascist plutocracy juggernaut that is going to eventually turn almost everyone else into its road kill. In theory, the masses of the Sheeple would have to learn to be better Wolves, in order to deal with the ways that the banksters ARE the Vicious Wolves controlling civilization now, who are most able to order the Domesticated Dogs to do what they are told to do, in order to herd the Sheeple.

Anyway, DirkDiggler11, you asked for anyone to give you reasons, and so I have done so. The current money system is the result of the application of the methods of organized crime being able to take control over the government. No other group could actually change that unless they were a better organized gang of criminals. Ideally, that should happen due to enough of "We the People" not continuing to be political idiots. However, there are no good reasons to believe that is going to happen, rather than that the vast majority of them will continue be robbed, until they are not worth robbing anymore, when they will be murdered.

Since more radical truth about that situation will be something that most people recognize way too little, too late, it is probably too trivial for me to bother to answer your question, DirkDiggler11. American taxpayers are almost totally reduced to being incompetent political idiots, and not only are they Sheeple, but most of the those who purport to lead them tend to be Black Sheep, reactionary revolutionaries, who propose that the solutions should be that everyone become better sheep.

However, in fact the only good solutions would be IF everyone became better wolves. ... Of course, there are no grounds to believe that is realistic to expect. Instead, what is most realistic is that the Vicious Wolves, and the Domesticated Dogs that they command, will become more rabid, and more psychotic, and more psychopathic and sociopathic, as they degenerate from being the competent top carnivores into becoming parasites that madly kill their host.

Killing any individual banksters is the WRONG IDEA! It is not who they are that matters, but what they do. Furthermore, the goals should be to do what they do better than they did that, which would require a series of profound paradigm shifts to better understand what they did, and why they did that. Those paradigm shifts would flow from the philosophy of science into political science. Those changes in the ways we thought would have to seriously embrace the magnitude of the real problems, that there has already been created a global system of electronic frauds, backed by atomic bombs.

Asserting that individual banksters should be murdered is another old-fashioned notion, which would surely backfire badly in the real world. Of course, such social chaos might happen, to some degree, as the established systems drive themselves mad, and into their own psychotic breakdowns, and collapses into chaos. However, when that happens then one could count on way, way more of the Sheeple being murdered than the Wolves, and moreover, the largest group of victims are surely going to be children.

Of course, it is a sign of the times, in our Bizarro Mirror World, that the banks might start charging depositors fees to deposit their money, and that those fees would end up greater than the interest earned on those deposited funds. After all, the legal situation has long been the completely corrupt and crazy situation that the banks actually owned the money that was deposited with them ... However, most people did not know that before things got so bad that the insanity of that situation ran away at its inherently exponential rates, and thus, was revealed to more of the mainstream morons than ever before.

However, like I said, I see no good reasons to believe that enough of the People will stop being incompetent political idiots, or Zombie Sheeple, especially since almost all of the controlled opposition to the banksters are nothing more than Black Sheep. Therefore, the answer to your question, DirkDiggler11, is that there is nobody competent to take down the banksters, and IF things got so bad that that started to happen in any symbolic ways, then, for sure, at the same time, far more innocent children would be murdered during those times of social chaos than banksters would be murdered.

I course, I wish that enough of the People would become competent enough citizens to recapture control of the government from the banksters. However, in order to do that, then enough of those citizens would have to better understand that their country is actually an organized crime gang, so that they could operate that gang better than before, and thereby be able to displace the bankstrers from their position of control. So far, there are no ways to believe in any such series of political miracles, so much so that it continues to be almost totally a waste of my time to bother to post this reply to your question.

It is grossly superficial and misleading to think that killing banksters would be any kind of good solution to the basic problem that money is measurement backed by murder, and that the debt controls depend on the death controls. After facing the social facts that government is organized crime, controlled by the best organized gangs of criminals, the only genuine solutions are to organize a better gang of criminals to take control over the government. Ideally, that would result from more of the People becoming competent citizens.

However, in the real world, that looks like a laughably ridiculous thing to recommend. Therefore, I would not expect any of the dominating banksters to be murdered, unless that was happening in a way worse social situation, where many more innocent children would be murdered, than banksters. Ideally, the death controls ought to be done through greater use of information, and higher consciousness. BUT, I fear that is practically impossible, given that the overwhelming vast majority of the People continue to act like incompetent political idiots, who are tricked by the Wolves in sheep's clothing, as well as misled by the Black Sheep to try to go backwards, as the way to resolve their problems.

I WISH I could see something better than the banksters systems of force backed frauds continuing to become more insane until they cause psychotic breakdowns, (and maybe social storms, during which a few of the banksters might be murdered), HOWEVER, so far, I can not believe in anything other than that the banksters will much more likely be imposing democidal martial law, to mass murder other people, rather than the banksters will be murdered.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:27 | 4186914 rehypothecator
rehypothecator's picture

For the tl;dr crowd: The laws exist to protect the elites from those they plunder.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 00:27 | 4187006 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

You haven't tried setting up you own blog?  Seriously, what you say is seriosuly important to anyone with half a brain.  You need to put all of this in your own blog-site, and you can have total control over colours, fonts etc.  I myself am completely limited by the bold/not bold italic/not italic dichotomy, and I suspect that the lack of available coloured, alternating coloured,  and flashing (alternating or otherwise) fonts of any size is seriously restricting your message.  However, I do like to underline, to enforce a thought bubble, so you may like to look at this option.

Most of the ZH people absolutely adore your thoughts - the IMPORTANCE of your message is getting lost in the banal posting ability of normal ZH posters (except for the 1% - the williambanzai7's and hedgeless horesemen who can post graphics and everything else!)  It's a big club, and you're not a member! (RIP George Carlin)

I always find that bold, flashing, extra-size alternate colours really set out what you think is important.

It seems to me that the importance of your missives immediately gets lost within the ZH posting and font constraints.  Just sayin'  Obviously, you take specific effort to post, and your attention to spelling and grammar is excellent.  You could almost be a teacher or professor!

Think about it, and Peace!



Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:38 | 4186095 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

I love the smell of bank run in the morning

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:54 | 4186136 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

You need to find some combination of words suggestive of bank runs that rhymes with naplam.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:19 | 4186192 Mr_Potatohead
Mr_Potatohead's picture

How about:

not likely to "stay calm"



Sun, 11/24/2013 - 19:08 | 4186410 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

I love the smell of 'stay calm' in the morning. Not bad.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 20:41 | 4186596 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Bankster "face palm"

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 23:56 | 4186944 Renfield
Renfield's picture

Within these halls
of tax and sin
their heads grow bald
but not their chin
Burma Shave

The widows mite, the orphan’s alm
are spent to grease the bankster palm!
But how to wash that money clean
and turn it back to legal green?
Burma Shave

Did the peasants run your bank?
Take a breath, calm down and thank
the bearded monkey named Bernank
and Burma Shave

Does your bankster
grunt and grumble?
rant and rave?
Shoot the brute...
some Burma Shave

(apologies to the historic ad series)

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:40 | 4186096 lailapa
lailapa's picture

The end of the world is near


In reality, by defeating the Americans they have defeated Christianity, which was a huge mistake. They have used the American “boat” to sink the rest of the national Christian “boats” and in the end they “sank” the American one as well.

Authored by Panagiotis Traianou

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:45 | 4186247 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

stop posting your crap racist spam.

go away.


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:41 | 4186097 zhandax
zhandax's picture

The sad fact is that half of the nitwits in this country either wouldn't notice they were being charged or notice, but don't pull their cash.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:49 | 4186116 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

sad but true.......99% of the country is in 'rapid eye movement'


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:12 | 4186166 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

99%?, How many Americans have enough money in banks to draw interest anyway? I think most see this as a rich mans problem and thats why these thieving fucks can get by with it. The assholes robbiing the world blind have convinced their victims it is all the fault of "rich people". You know, the ones with savings and maybe a home that's not pre-foreclosure.


Remember all those bloody riots in Cyprus after the clipped the account holders? Oh that right, there was none because they only nailed the "rich" ones.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:41 | 4186098 ImpotentRage
ImpotentRage's picture

Local credit unions FTW.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:32 | 4186215 logicalman
logicalman's picture

The ONLY sensible option.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:49 | 4186100 29.5 hours
29.5 hours's picture



It is hard to know at what level to judge this threat. Are these banksters so arrogant and divorced from reality to think that charging depositors is a realistic threat? That there will not be consequences at a mass level they cannot control or bullshit their way out of?

Even they should know that thievery is most profitable when it is most obfuscated--when people have only a vague clue they are being robbed. Making it obvious would be a bad political move.

Perhaps the threat is only meant to give the Fed a good excuse to continue the capital reserve swindle. The banks work with the Fed and each gives the other cover for their actions.




Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:44 | 4186106 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

More Bullish Gold. It never stops.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:50 | 4186123 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> More Bullish Gold

Everything has been bullish gold for the last two years and it's dropped $650.  What's your point?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:00 | 4186145 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

If you have common sense, It's self explanatory ......otherwise the point is...PHYSICAL GOLD 

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:50 | 4186255 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Exactly.  The COMEX rigged paper price of gold, of which we are all currently forced to buy and sell at, has dropped $650.  So consider it a gift to buy more.  Unless you totally have confidence in the Fed, banksters, and black dude hustling this shit-show of an "economy", then don't buy gold.  But I think we all know what's coming, and at that point FRN's are probably going to be devalued pretty heavily.


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:10 | 4186168 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Didn't people lose on CDSs for MBSs before 2008? Just don't buy what you can't afford.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:47 | 4186110 Al Capowned
Al Capowned's picture

PM's and Bitcoin are the accountability the government has neglected to act on in the banking/financial sector!

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:20 | 4186190 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

You're right on one of the two. Everybody's waiting for the Comex to fail on delivery...but the Fed has ALREADY failed on delivery to the Bundesbank and the dollar price has dropped. Just shows how deep the corruption of paper gold really is.

What I'd prefer is a simple electronic accounting ledger where assets & liabilities always match. Better if it wasn't run by any central government or organization but rather by private citizens. Better make it 100% transparent so there are no possible shenanigans. And let anyone transact on it so long as they follow the basic rules of constructing transactions and are authenticated holders of the basic unit of account. And better build in a system whereby the units of account aren't subject to political pressures and can't be created in unlimited quantities. Let's see what should we call it? BitMoney? BitFreedom? Hey how about Bitcoi...

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:35 | 4186226 logicalman
logicalman's picture

100% transparent.

That's all that is needed.


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:47 | 4186112 ImpotentRage
ImpotentRage's picture

So, not only are you not even giving us enough interest on our deposits to cover for inflation, but now you are going to charge us for the honor of us loaning you our money?

OK, so tell me again what advantage is there to giving our money to you? At least now the miniscule interest is still better than nothing, but if that goes to a negative number, we would be better off just holding all our money ourselves.

OTOH, business will soon be booming for small local credit unions methinks.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:49 | 4186119 doggis
doggis's picture

ahhh HELLOOOoooo ZEROHEDGE - why the HECK are you doing the homework for those ACADEMIC clowns at the central bank? Let them do their OWN homework! Unless of course they are giving you direct access to all their FREE COUNTERFEIT MONEY in payment...................

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:50 | 4186122 philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

So a bank deposit is (hopelessly under)insured by the FDIC.  If the bank goes tits up, the deposit is "insured".  But if bank instead is allowed to confiscates a portion of the insured deposits pursuant to a "charge" in order to prevent it from going tits up, what good is the deposit insurance?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 16:52 | 4186131 ImpotentRage
ImpotentRage's picture

Wow that is a very good point. No banks will ever go tits up I bet. The money will be "confiscated" by the feds, then the bank shut down. What, you don't have confiscation insurance, why are you looking at us like that?

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:16 | 4186187 sosoome
sosoome's picture

If there were no federal deposit insurance in the first place, banks would have to revert to a very conservative business model in order to attract depositors. Gold would likewise revert to it's primary role of wealth retention by the masses.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:29 | 4186212 seek
seek's picture

And this is already written into law, thanks to Dodd-Frank. We will never have a 2008-type bailout again, it'll be a bail-in.

Gold, bitcoin, physical cash under mattress, those are the choices.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 17:48 | 4186254 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

most people still don't realize that when you deposit money at a bank, legally, it is no longer your money; you become an unsecured creditor to the bank, and it becomes the bank's money.


Sun, 11/24/2013 - 19:39 | 4186469 graspAU
graspAU's picture

Agree, but if you want to make a large purchase, like a homestead (without the need for a loan), then you have to stash cash in the system or you get bells and whistles going off when you bring that kind of cash in for a cashier's check in order to close the deal. Still need lots of baskets for the eggs: Deposits in system, physical currency, PM's, etc.

Mon, 11/25/2013 - 08:42 | 4187324 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

OK, I'm actually buying a piece of property and paying some in cash, some financed. Here's the outlook between me and the seller - a good guy.

The purchase price will be $XXX. That's strictly between me and him. The purchase price the bank sees will be $XXX - Y, Y being the amount of CASH I am giving the seller privately. Seller sells at what is a somewhat low price, bank thinks, OK, we will lend you the rest because I am also putting up Z, Z being the money I have already accounted for and on deposit in my credit union.

Seller pays less in capital gains tax. I pay less in property taxes because Y (the private money) is never seen by anyone but me and the seller.

Everybody gets happy, but, the seller and I have the satisfaction of making a handshake private deal that suits both of us, while screwing the system pretty damn well.

The seller actually said to me, when I proposed this, "that's how it works, nowadays." Like Radical Marijuana above said so elegantly, some of the sheeple need to be better wolves. It may be a small victory, but it is a victory nonetheless. More power to the people, cash, gold, underground economy, barter and honesty in dealing with neighbors.

Sun, 11/24/2013 - 21:52 | 4186725 grekko
grekko's picture

True, but I wouldn't trade shoes with a banker if they took those unsecured deposits.

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